Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, November 23, 2014

Clippers 116, Knicks 108

'Los Angeles' is Spanish, right?

OK let’s get this over with. That’s not only how I feel now, but I how I felt when watching this game. Not for the whole game, mind you. New York tied the game at 35 in the mid 2nd quarter. But the Clippers would go on a 10-0 run, and expand it to 20 points in the third quarter. Essentially for the last 30 minutes of game time, Los Angeles led.

The Knicks didn’t have a bad shooting night, as their 53.1% eFG would attest. Instead the New York defense was the big letdown. The Clippers shot a sizzling 59.9%, and that was enough to propel them to victory. Six players from the visiting team had 16 or more points, and only Baron Davis (16 pts, 17 fga) had more points than shots attempted. However, the Clipper point guard did have 16 assists.

Some quick notes:

  • Mozgov played well on offense. He had 18 points on 8 of 9 shooting. It seemed like almost all of them were dunks as his teammates found him in the paint time and time again. He showed improved hands and a good sense around the rim. Timofey was active on the offensive glass as well.
  • Whatever Mozgov gave the Knicks on offense, he gave up on defense. DeAndre Jordan matched him with an identical shooting night (8-9), and like Mozgov he got most of his points in the paint, including a few alley-oops. Jordan exposed a weakness in Mozgov’s man defense, especially in handling a quicker center. The Knick center did block a shot at the end of the first half, so he wasn’t a complete minus on defense. Given what Mozgov was giving the Knicks earlier this year, I’ll take a draw at the center spot.
  • Danilo Gallinari shot 3 of 13, including 1 of 8 from downtown. However he made all 14 of his free throws and ended with 21 points. He excels at getting to the line, which helps on the nights when his outside shot isn’t sinking. On one drive had a nice no-look feed to Mozgov on the baseline, something you’d like to see more from the forward.
  • Amar’e was limited to only 27 minutes, due to early foul trouble. At one point he twisted his ankle, and lay on the court for a few minutes. Stoudemire played immediately afterward, so hopefully there are no lingering ramifications from the play.
  • 110 comments on “Clippers 116, Knicks 108

    1. Thomas B.

      The Knicks didn’t have a bad shooting night, as their 53.1% eFG would attest. Instead the New York defense was the big letdown. The Clippers shot a sizzling 59.9%, and that was enough to propel them to victory.

      This was exactly the point in the game preview. The Knicks didn’t shoot poorly but allowed the Clippers to shoot really well in the last game too.

      The crowd was chanting “we want Melo” in the third, but that drove me nuts because I cant figure out why they think Melo can help the Knicks:
      1. Play better interior defense
      2. Make entry passes and lobs more difficult for the opponents’ guards
      3. Improve the defensive rebounding rate
      4. Improve overall offensive efficiency
      5.Keep opposing guards from penetrating

      Mozgov always plays well against poor defensive front lines. He had a great showing against the Pistons as well. Doing it against the less than elite is a good place to start for a rookie.

      This team needs a clear offensive plan for times that Stoudemire has to sit. That second quarter was awful. Oh well next up Lakers and perhaps then end of the above .500 part of the season.

    2. BigBlueAL

      Amar’e was 10 for 13 FG today. In the last 2 games he is 27 for 34 FG. Damn.

      Anyway I havent gone to MSG.com yet to watch post-game interviews but I have already read the typical Amar’e and D’Antoni quotes ripping the team’s energy and focus after the game. Im sure they will come out and compete hard if not win vs the Lakers on Friday but this pattern is becoming tiresome.

      At least it wasnt a loss to an East team which doesnt hurt their conference record and they are still 3 in the loss column up on Philly and the Pacers while the Bucks continue to lose games left and right. Not too worried about the Bobcats because Knicks already have the tie-breaker vs them and they are still 5 back in the loss column. Still, we need the trade deadline to pass as soon as possible and either trade for Melo or not because this will continue to hover over this team for the time being.

    3. BigBlueAL

      “This team needs a clear offensive plan for times that Stoudemire has to sit. That second quarter was awful. Oh well next up Lakers and perhaps then end of the above .500 part of the season.”

      Well, Melo would fix that problem lol.

    4. Thomas B.

      BigBlueAL: “This team needs a clear offensive plan for times that Stoudemire has to sit. That second quarter was awful. Oh well next up Lakers and perhaps then end of the above .500 part of the season.”Well, Melo would fix that problem lol.  

      And how about the 5 other areas that contributed to the loss?

    5. Jimmy C

      Headline at PistonPowered blog: “Not it: The Cavs’ losing streak lives on”

      Hilarious.

      In other news: we’ve got serious problems.

      I don’t want to retype / re-post what I wrote at the end of the game thread, but suffice it to say, our approach isn’t working.

      SSOL can be successful if a lot of things go your way. Right now, very few if any of these things are going our way. We’re not moving the ball effectively or hitting our 3s at a consistent clip on the offensive end, we’re not forcing enough turnovers or stopping penetration on the defensive end, and the rebounding remains a sick joke.

      I love that even when we’re down 20, we’ve never totally packed it in. We always make a run. But in a way that’s what makes games like this more disturbing. It’s like: “where the hell was this effort out of the gate?” This is another unintended consequence of SSOL: you delude yourself into thinking no margin is to great to overcome. Which, for the teams most apt at executing that kind of offense, is absolutely true. But we’re not exactly “apt” right now.

    6. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Jimmy C:
      Right now, very few if any of these things are going our way. We’re not moving the ball effectively or hitting our 3s at a consistent clip on the offensive end, we’re not forcing enough turnovers or stopping penetration on the defensive end, and the rebounding remains a sick joke.

      Dave Berri? Is that you?

    7. robinb

      Don’t know if it’s completely appropriate here, but I have to get this out: I’ve created the perfect Carmelo trade.

      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4nfd5ko

      Don’t know exactly why this works, but it does. From a Knicks’ perspective, look at that trade exception. That would be important given that, in a Carmelo deal, we lose all the cap space and large contracts we could use to bring in another good player. And it’s a big trade exception. I might even say… a Steve Nash-sized trade exception. (Though a consolation prize of Calderon or Dunleavy, for example, would not be so bad.)

      And on the other side, it’s a plausible deal. Philly starts rebuilding around some pretty promising young guys, Cleveland starts the process of creating flexibility/not paying luxury tax for a historically bad roster. And Denver actually takes a step forward, plugging a big hole at PF and getting deeper all over. Plus they change the personality of their whole team, which fans/management might find refreshing. Iguodala is a good replacement for Melo – same age, plus he brings defense, athleticism and unselfishness that Melo did not. They would be getting better. They’d even end up saving a few million this year! (Although they’d be committing to more spending beyond that.)

      And despite the complexity, there’s actually a lot of flexibility within the framework of this deal. Obviously draft picks can go every which way, and there is leeway to alternate players in the smaller salary spots.

      Please God let Donnie see this.

    8. Brian Cronin

      Don’t know if it’s completely appropriate here, but I have to get this out: I’ve created the perfect Carmelo trade.

      No “perfect” Carmelo trade involves the Knicks giving up two out of the three young guys plus taking back Harrington.

    9. robinb

      I thought Harrington was a somewhat useful player under D’Antoni. But point taken.

      BUT Harrington, Gallinari, Chandler are all flexible pieces of the deal. For instance, Philly could take Shawne Williams instead of Gallo, or NY could take back Shelden Williams instead of Al.

    10. John Kenney

      I don’t think Philadelphia does that trade unfortunately- they like iguodala and brand and want to make the playoffs this season. And maybe I’m just being a hater but I really don’t want to see Al back on this team/ deal with his contract hurting our 2012 cap space

    11. Brian Cronin

      I just don’t see cap space being the issue in 2012. I don’t think they’re going to have the room to sign a third star either way, so they’d have to trade people on the roster (Felton plus whoever…Gallo, Fields, etc.) so I don’t mind them wasting money on Al.

    12. Frank

      I’ve sort of changed my mind about what is wrong with this team. It is bad defensive coaching but what it REALLY is, is total lack of defensive intensity unless we’re down double digits in the 4th. The announcers said it last night and I agree with them – they really do play good defense when they play HARD. I don’t know what it is but this team just doesn’t look like it plays hard until the 4th quarter. That’s borne out in the 4th quarter +/- — this team really DOES buckle down in crunch time. But that’s no excuse for the lack of effort in the first 3.

      Why is this happening? Who knows. Is D’Antoni not stressing defensive INTENSITY enough in the 1st quarter? Is Amare much less willing to play tough D in the 1st 3 quarters because he’s scared of fouls (I think it might be largely due to this).

      If anything, getting Melo might help just because he’s another guy who is used to winning and playing with high intensity all the time. On this entire team, the only significant player (ie. not Mason) that has been part of a winning culture is Amare — he’s shown he wants to lead, but maybe we need another sub-leader or leader 1A to push this lazy group forward. The defensive rebounding was just awful in the first 3 quarters. How many times did freaking Deandre Jordan get loose balls off the offensive glass with NO KNICK WITHIN 5 FEET. Just horrible.

      Meanwhile, does anyone think Chandler might not be playing his hardest in order to decrease his own trade value? It’s either that or he’s injured — he doesn’t look like the same player at all from earlier this season.

    13. Frank

      Sorry to keep piling on but the way this team played in the first 3 quarters, a coach like Popovitch or Jerry Sloan would’ve sat the entire starting lineup and sent the bench guys out for a good long run. I really think D’Antoni needs to make a statement like that in order to wake these guys up.

    14. d-mar

      A fundamental problem I see with this team on defense is that as soon as someone on the other team sets a high screen, everything completely breaks down. We end up with some kind of mismatch, and inevitably an opposing shooter is wide open from beyond the arc. I know this is a staple of every team in the NBA, but how come when we run it, the same thing doesn’t happen for us? Because other team’s defenses are getting through screens, helping, rotating, etc. Douglas is about the only guy who fights thru screens, but he always seems to be wincing in agony afterwards.

    15. Jimmy C

      “…this was a night to witness just how mediocre the Knicks can be when they carry themselves with the demeanor of a team that has an overinflated sense of self worth, believing they’ve captured the city’s interest when all they’ve really done is shown themselves capable of remaining relevant simply by virtue of being in position to compete for a playoff spot in a weak conference….”

      That’s our old friend Chris Sheridan from this morning’s column. Normally I take what he says with an Eddie Curry-sized grain of salt, but I thought this line hit the nail on the head.

      According to the article, D’A got pretty pissed off in the locker room after the game. Thing is, I don’t know what his ceiling is in terms of post-game dramatics. Can anyone see him really getting THAT pissed? It seems like D’Antoni is SAYING all the right things when it comes to our lack of defensive intensity, but I really can’t tell if this is just media posturing in order to deflate the obvious concerns, or if this is something he regularly brings up in practice.

      It’s been said here a million times, but I’ll just go ahead and pile on: defense is not a matter of talent. It’s a matter of desire. Unless you’re a real athletic millstone, anyone can be a solid defender. I’m not expecting Gallo to turn into Bruce Bowen or Amare into Dennis Rodman, but certainly we can find a way to tap into the kind of defense we’ve shown in spurts — or down by 20 in the third — more regularly throughout the game. I don’t know if that drains us to the point of being less effective offensively, but I can’t believe that has to be the case. If it means sticking with our bench through longer spurts (TD, Extra E and Chandler are all capable defenders), then maybe that’s something we should explore.

    16. Nick C.

      Sometimes defense is a matter of paying attention. Clyde constantly repeats “see your man see the ball.” But time and time again guys are wide open … This isn’t advanced mathematics. These are the same plays that I see in my elementary school rec games. Part of it comes from the top, if he doesn’t start yanking players who lose their man, turnstile guys into the paint, fail to rotate then why should they bother.

    17. Brian Cronin

      I meant to mention this during the game, but I guess it applies here, too. What’s the deal with Amar’e shouting after the defense has a bad breakdown? He does it a lot. I presume/hope that it is him being mad at himself, but a lot of the times it looks like he’s pissed at his teammates. Which, if true, would be really weird as Amar’e is not a good defender at all, so he really ought not to give his teammates shit. But if it is just him being mad at himself, then it’s still kinda weird, but a lot more understandable. How do you guys read his shouting?

    18. Jimmy C

      Brian Cronin: I meant to mention this during the game, but I guess it applies here, too. What’s the deal with Amar’e shouting after the defense has a bad breakdown? He does it a lot. I presume/hope that it is him being mad at himself, but a lot of the times it looks like he’s pissed at his teammates. Which, if true, would be really weird as Amar’e is not a good defender at all, so he really ought not to give his teammates shit. But if it is just him being mad at himself, then it’s still kinda weird, but a lot more understandable. How do you guys read his shouting?

      We haven’t really seen that much this season, but last night he was definitely getting upset. It seemed like he was yelling at his teammates, which, like you said, is quite amusing. I believe they call that “projection”.

      Just seems like we don’t have that palpable camaraderie we showed earlier in the year. Probably a side effect of the trade talks, which have to be taking their toll at this point. One of the things we all seemed to like about this team earlier in the year was how much they genuinely seemed to like each other. Watching them the last few weeks, I don’t get that sense as much.

    19. njasdjdh

      Brian Cronin: I meant to mention this during the game, but I guess it applies here, too. What’s the deal with Amar’e shouting after the defense has a bad breakdown? He does it a lot. I presume/hope that it is him being mad at himself, but a lot of the times it looks like he’s pissed at his teammates. Which, if true, would be really weird as Amar’e is not a good defender at all, so he really ought not to give his teammates shit. But if it is just him being mad at himself, then it’s still kinda weird, but a lot more understandable. How do you guys read his shouting?  

      THIS!!!

      It really pisses me off. If you are LeBron James or Kevin Garnett or Dwight Howard…you’re allowed to do that. When you are 6’10” athletic freak struggling to get double digits in rebounds and can’t keep your man in front of you if your life depended on it…please just stop.

    20. totti

      even when they won big games
      they were a joke
      three point hope, this is how you resume dantoni’s basketball.

      fire dantoni
      then you can think to future

    21. DS

      Jimmy C: “…this was a night to witness just how mediocre the Knicks can be when they carry themselves with the demeanor of a team that has an overinflated sense of self worth, believing they’ve captured the city’s interest when all they’ve really done is shown themselves capable of remaining relevant simply by virtue of being in position to compete for a playoff spot in a weak conference….”

      F*** Sheridan, and all of the negativity. Plenty of good teams have lost to the Clippers this season. And those teams and their fans’ don’t get beaten over the head by extremist journalists who need to make a sweeping assessment of the team and its direction after every F’ing game.

    22. Jimmy C

      DS: F*** Sheridan, and all of the negativity. Plenty of good teams have lost to the Clippers this season. And those teams and their fans’ don’t get beaten over the head by extremist journalists who need to make a sweeping assessment of the team and its direction after every F’ing game.

      You’re right, most of the time I can’t stand anything he writes. And yes, to the extent that he has to fill column inches, his articles often take on an overly-generalized and sweeping tone. But I’m sorry, he’s actually right about this one. The team is playing like they can just turn it on and off whenever they want. Clearly they can’t.

      You can call it negativity, but I for one didn’t expect this team to be floundering at .500 at this point in the season. We have too much talent for that. No one’s calling this season a failure, or anything close to that. But there are plenty of people who might use the term “disappointing”, and I don’t think they’d be off base.

    23. Count Zero

      I honestly believe the two biggest negative factors affecting this team now are:

      1) Felton is showing signs of the too many minutes at PG syndrome common to D’Antoni’s rotations

      2) The ‘Melo saga is wearing away at the team’s cohesiveness. The 24th cannot come soon enough for us.

      On the one hand, I have to hand it to the ODB for his ice-cold playing of the Denver situation — I mean if you can weasel ‘Melo out of Denver for almost nothing, then you gotta’ do it. But there’s a part of me that says this saga has gone on far too long now — even Mikhail knew when the best thing to do was put an end to it so his players could move on.

      If Donnie were to announce tomorrow that the Knicks were no longer interested in trading for ‘Melo and had decided to pursue development / possible shoring up through a backup PG only, I would not have any problems at all with that.

    24. Jimmy C

      Count Zero: On the one hand, I have to hand it to the ODB for his ice-cold playing of the Denver situation — I mean if you can weasel ‘Melo out of Denver for almost nothing, then you gotta’ do it. But there’s a part of me that says this saga has gone on far too long now — even Mikhail knew when the best thing to do was put an end to it so his players could move on.

      That’s the trade-off, I think, and it kind of makes for a very unfortunate catch-22. Donnie is playing his hand SO WELL that this thing inevitably keeps dragging on, which is definitely affecting the team. Throwing more assets at Denver earlier would may have put Melo in the blue and orange more quickly, but at what long-term cost? I know it’s difficult to put a number on it, but I would say we’ve lost at least a few games just by virtue of being out of sync / letting the trade talks take their psychological tolls. At this point, the worst thing Walsh could do would be to throw more assets at Denver now, because at that point you would have both a) sacrificed X losses in playing the hand this long, and b) hurt our long-term prospects.

      If we end up getting Melo for the aforementioned pu-pu platter, we may be a few losses deeper because of it, but at least our long term prospects would be better. Again, the worst thing he could do now would be to do something he could have done months ago, and up the offer. At that point we’d have a player we could have had in December or January, but with more losses to show for it.

    25. DS

      Jimmy C: We have too much talent for that. No one’s calling this season a failure, or anything close to that. But there are plenty of people who might use the term “disappointing”, and I don’t think they’d be off base.  

      I will respectfully disagree. People who think that this season is a disappointment, IMHO, were way off base in their expectations. The goal was always the 8th seed or higher. Most of us predicted that the Knicks would belong in the same class as Milwaukee, Indiana, Charlotte, perhaps Philly and Detroit. Not Atlanta or Chicago and def. not Miami, Boston, or Orlando.

      It’s not a shock that Griffin and Jordan were capable of creating more interior offense than the Knicks’ D could handle and thus Foye, Davis, and Gomes (w/ some luck) were able to capitalize.

      And if Fields and Gallo had shot better than 2-8 and 3-13 respectively than we’d be discussing how our flawed but solid team escaped with a close one against a young team who’s been hot rather than talking obsessing about what this 1 game means about our whole season and future.

    26. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I’m still fine with the season as a whole. I predicted a losing record, so .500 and/or a playoff spot is fine by me.

      And I totally agree with the ridiculous idea of how every game has to be viewed as a statement on the season as a whole. It’s silly when it is following a win, but it is outrageously annoying following a loss.

    27. Jimmy C

      DS: And if Fields and Gallo had shot better than 2-8 and 3-13 respectively than we’d be discussing how our flawed but solid team escaped with a close one against a young team who’s been hot rather than talking obsessing about what this 1 game means about our whole season and future.

      Look, I’ll be unbelievably excited if we’re in the playoffs, regardless of seed. No doubt. I’m thrilled to have a team we can be proud of and whose future looks bright. Obviously we can’t count ourselves with the perennial top 5 teams, but I look at the other teams you mentioned, and I really don’t understand why we don’t have more distance from them. Again, we’re way too talented not to.

      Sure, if Gallo or Fields we have average games, maybe we win. Or if we come up with a few more stops. Or rebounds. Or if our defense disappears for half the game instead of 3/4 of the game. The point is that it’s not just “one game”. These are issues that have been going on for months, and very few, if any, seem to be improving. We’re not putting one game under a microscope; we’re putting most of the season under a microscope. Go back and look at the threads from the last month. The issues have been the same throughout.

      latke: What’s weird to me is that the nuggets seem to be unaffected.

      Good point. My only guess would be that that that core has been playing together for a while, so they have thicker skin. Or something.

    28. Thomas B.

      Brian Cronin:

      No “perfect” Carmelo trade involves the Knicks giving up two out of the three young guys plus taking back Harrington.  

      (Quote)

      And the church says AMEN!!

    29. Z

      Knick starters were all -9 or worse (Fields -19!). Toney Douglas was +16.

      Amar’e took fewer shots than Eric Bledsoe.

      Weird game.

    30. Doug

      totti: even when they won big games
      they were a joke
      three point hope, this is how you resume dantoni’s basketball.fire dantoni
      then you can think to future  

      You would rather be right than see the Knicks win. That is sickening.

    31. ess-dog

      At this point, I wouldn’t mind swapping Chandler for Gallo in the proposed trade if it moves things along. I wouldn’t even mind doing Gallo and Chandler as long as we get another decent piece back like Birdman.
      Stat and Fields are my only untouchables. Not sure why we would need Minny in this case:

      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4onmclu

      I don’t even think we need to put a draft pick in there but we could give them our 2014. And we keep AR for grooming and/or future trade.

      Look, Chandler’s as good as gone anyway and Melo basically replicates Gallo except he rebounds better, passes better and gets to the line more. He doesn’t shoot the three as well, but he’s had years where he’s shot it better than Gallo does now.

      Stat and Melo will play about 40 minutes each every night anyway, so it’s not like we need a super deep bench especially at forward. If one gets injured, AR steps right in. Birdman and Timo share the center duties. Landry gets Landrier.

    32. DS

      Jimmy C: he point is that it’s not just “one game”. These are issues that have been going on for months, and very few, if any, seem to be improving. We’re not putting one game under a microscope; we’re putting most of the season under a microscope. Go back and look at the threads from the last month. The issues have been the same throughout.

      Well, this time last month we were 21-14 following a win against the Spurs. I think most of us fanatics feel frustrated have difficulty accepting the slide the Knicks have taken over the “last month.”

      But I think we shouldn’t lose sight of (1) how much room Fields, Chandler, Gallo, possibly Douglas and Mozgov have to grow; (2) how long it takes to build the level of chemistry that experience these big lapses that drive us fans crazy; (3) there have been injuries; (4) our cap. space will lead to roster changes.

      Don’t mean to be so contentious, Jimmy, I’m just fighting to keep the mood positive around here!

    33. Caleb

      @36-37 That’s a spectacular win for the Knicks, but I doubt the Nugs would bite. But who knows?

      Knicks main problem these days, last several games – the defense is ridiculous. I can’t remember the last time the opponent shot less than 50 percent. Some of it’s effort or fatigue, some personnel – Chandler is hurt, Turiaf is out,. Stoudemire is limping. Most of the other players in the rotation just aren’t good defenders to start with. I’d kill for some AR. Heck, he could probably do a job on Baron Davis, let Felton play Randy Foye for a bit.

      I guess in the big picture they are hanging in as a .500 team which is about what most of us predicted at the start of the season.

    34. Jimmy C

      DS: But I think we shouldn’t lose sight of (1) how much room Fields, Chandler, Gallo, possibly Douglas and Mozgov have to grow; (2) how long it takes to build the level of chemistry that experience these big lapses that drive us fans crazy; (3) there have been injuries; (4) our cap. space will lead to roster changes.

      Don’t mean to be so contentious, Jimmy, I’m just fighting to keep the mood positive around here!

      No worries my brother. I realize I’m being overly critical / impatient. And you’re absolutely right: we’re clearly headed in the right direction and doing it the right way and with the right pieces.

      Besides, today apparently starts the 9th and final cycle of the Mayan Calendar: the Age of Conscious Co-creation. It requires we all be positive, and good things will happen. Now to lick this rainbow-colored frog….

    35. ess-dog

      Caleb: @36-37 That’s a spectacular win for the Knicks, but I doubt the Nugs would bite. But who knows?  

      We could also sweeten it in a few ways. Add Walker who they supposedly like. Give them a late 2011 first by trading TD, Walker, Shawne, or some combo. We can also send them 3 mil to offset the Curry contract right? Maybe take on Balkman too.

      Really there are a lot of options, but Denver came to the table so late that things are all crazed now.

    36. Frank

      @27 and @28 — this is actually the GREAT thing about Donnie – he’s got his eyes on the prize which is actually competing for a championship, not on the ebbs and flows of February for a team that, while exciting for the first time in a long time, is clearly not a contender. I think he would be (and is) happy to sacrifice 1-2 months of turmoil for what may be 4-5 years of true championship aspirations.

    37. afrikan_hermis

      totti: even when they won big games
      they were a joke
      three point hope, this is how you resume dantoni’s basketball.fire dantoni
      then you can think to future  

      I have been saying this OVER & OVER several times without getting any attention. Folks D’ANPHONI got to go. This overrated, overpaid, STUBBORNLY IDIOSYNCRATIC,SSOL,my-way-is-better,OLD DOG cannot be taught new tricks!We don’t want to be Phoenix Suns EAST. Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson & Popovitch, even Doug Collins, could have done a better job than MDA (spelt Mike D’AnPHONI). We cannot be championship contenders playing ONLY SSOL ball. Riles said ” No rebounding no rings “. Folks we better listen to the guy who wears plenty of those rings! It’s too bad that the brilliant Walsh most glaring mistake was to hire and overpay MD’anPHONY. Any body wander why Dumb Dolan still has ship wrecker Thomas whispering sweet romance in his ears & want to take credit in getting Melo? If I were Walsh, before Dolan dumps me, I will quickly fire coach and hire Hakeem and Patrick and Clyde to form a new coaching staff and right this ship. We all know how Hakeem taught even Kobe post moves some 2yrs ago & we also know how he helped Howard, not to mention Patrick’s ongoing contribution, last summer. Also Walsh SHOULD NEVER include Gallo & Chandler in Melo deal. Fields & Timmy should be untouchable. Preferably for economic reasons we should offer only Chandler with same deal with the Wolves and throw in cash say $3 mi.as the final pot sweetener. Period. No need worrying about LA. I bet you Denver will finally bite cose to the 24th. Let’s go NY!

    38. Z

      latke: What’s weird to me is that the nuggets seem to be unaffected.  

      If Wilson Chandler is really so mentally soft that his game falls off a cliff because of trade rumors, then I can’t see him having much success in NY at all. Imagine the playoffs (should we ever play in the playoffs again) how tiny he’d shrink!

    39. knickterp

      The idea that our offense is fine is misguided. Look at Mike’s great Phoenix teams–their first quarters were regularly overwhelming; they’d burst out to 40-25 leads while the opponent would grow accustomed to the pace, then they’d make a run, then the Suns would pull away late with the benefit of the early cushion.
      We come out early looking like we’ve never played at the desired pace. It’s been a successful first quarter lately if we’re only slightly behind.
      We’re not good enough to wait 30 minutes for Gallo to get “comfortable” and in the flow after going 1-7, say, or for Chandler to no-show for 3 quarters, or for Landry to play great 1 out of every 4 games. (And Felton’s looked lost, also.)
      I’d offer Denver 2 of Fields, Gallo, or Chandler. And I’d think about giving all 3 if that’s what it took. I think Melo’s instincts and ability would shine in this system. At least I’m willing to make that gamble.

    40. afrikan_hermis

      knickterp: The idea that our offense is fine is misguided.Look at Mike’s great Phoenix teams–their first quarters were regularly overwhelming; they’d burst out to 40-25 leads while the opponent would grow accustomed to the pace, then they’d make a run, then the Suns would pull away late with the benefit of the early cushion.
      We come out early looking like we’ve never played at the desired pace.It’s been a successful first quarter lately if we’re only slightly behind.
      We’re not good enough to wait 30 minutes for Gallo to get “comfortable” and in the flow after going 1-7, say, or for Chandler to no-show for 3 quarters, or for Landry to play great 1 out of every 4 games.(And Felton’s looked lost, also.)
      I’d offer Denver 2 of Fields, Gallo, or Chandler.And I’d think about giving all 3 if that’s what it took.I think Melo’s instincts and ability would shine in this system.At least I’m willing to make that gamble. &
      Folks I REPEAT this D’anphony MUST GO!!!!
      And you are talking about gutting the farm and giving all of our
      best 3 young studs in Gallo, Fields & Chandler for a DESPERATE Denver organization who are about to loose him for nothing except to bite our low ball offer plus cash I suggested @ 43? PLEEEEAAAAASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    41. afrikan_hermis

      afrikan_hermis:
        

      Oh I forgot. I mean giving up all 3 guys who can play a little defense in an already defense-anemic D’anPHONY system for Melo, another defenseless scorer, only to augment a PHONY SSOL inflexible, shallow system that will never win championship? Who are trying to please here? D’anPHONY or we the fans and New York?

    42. knickterp

      afrikan_hermis:
        

      Your single-minded aversion to the system implies that Mike Fratello, Hubie “walk it up” Brown, Scott Skiles, and Jeff Van Gundy are all busy polishing their NBA Championship rings right now. Here are the “systems” that have won titles:
      The Kobe/Shaq system
      The Kobe/Gasol system
      The Pierce/KG/Allen system
      The Duncan/Ginobili/Parker system
      The DWade/Shaq system etc.
      I’d love to believe the Amar’e/Fields/Gallo system is next on the list, but I’m skeptical.

    43. ess-dog

      knickterp:
      Your single-minded aversion to the system implies that Mike Fratello, Hubie “walk it up” Brown, Scott Skiles, and Jeff Van Gundy are all busy polishing their NBA Championship rings right now.Here are the “systems” that have won titles:
      The Kobe/Shaq system
      The Kobe/Gasol system
      The Pierce/KG/Allen system
      The Duncan/Ginobili/Parker system
      The DWade/Shaq system etc.
      I’d love to believe the Amar’e/Fields/Gallo system is next on the list, but I’m skeptical.  

      Only Knick possibilities for title:

      CP3/Melo/Stat
      Williams/Melo/Stat
      CP3/Howard/Stat
      Williams/Howard/Stat
      Nash/Melo/Stat/Gallo or Chandler
      Felton/Melo/Stat/Howard

      That’s about it. Maybe if we can add a Kevin Martin or a Steph Curry and a Marc Gasol to the current core we could get close?

    44. knickterp

      Those possibilities are fine, ess-dog. The first two, adding CP3 or Deron to Melo/Stat are realistic–they could actually happen. Adding Marc Gasol and/or Steph Curry to the current core are not very realistic and would require several things: the other teams cooperating (Gasol is restricted FA, for ex.), and the relevant players developing to superstar level (Gasol/Curry/Gallo/etc.) I can’t gamble Amar’e’s prime on those unknowables. I’m sure JJ Hickson’s win shares and efficiency and overall superstardom were bound to explode this year once that pesky Lebron left.

    45. DS

      Jimmy C: Besides, today apparently starts the 9th and final cycle of the Mayan Calendar: the Age of Conscious Co-creation. It requires we all be positive, and good things will happen. Now to lick this rainbow-colored frog.

      Haha. And in the eighth cycle, we were required to attribute others’ missteps to “an overinflated sense of self worth, believing they’ve captured the city’s interest when all they’ve really done is shown themselves capable of remaining relevant simply by virtue of being in position to compete for a playoff spot in a weak conference.”

    46. DS

      ess-dog: Only Knick possibilities for title:
      CP3/Melo/Stat

      Getting CP3 or Howard would transcendent, DWill would be tremendous, ‘Melo would give us 20-30% more of what we already get from Chandler.

    47. Jimmy C

      DS:
      Haha. And in the eighth cycle, we were required to attribute others’ missteps to “an overinflated sense of self worth, believing they’ve captured the city’s interest when all they’ve really done is shown themselves capable of remaining relevant simply by virtue of being in position to compete for a playoff spot in a weak conference.”  

      Exactly. Sometimes evolution takes a big leap.

    48. morenonsense

      Attended the game in person; was really looking forward to a high energy game where the Knicks “brought it” because they knew they’d be playing the Blakers. Boy, was I disappointed. That was some of the worst defense I’ve seen from them all year, and I think it begins with Felton. Guards, bet it bledsoe, davis, whoever, were just getting right into the paint and creating with no problem whatsoever. It was really a travesty. D’Antoni needs to instill better defensive fundamentals in this regard; it certainly seemed like Felton played better defense last year. Nonetheless, when the guards got in the paint, a big needs to knock them down at least once, and we really missed Turaf there last night. While I applaud Mozgov for catching the ball better to get those dunks, his defense is horrible. Really, really bad. Would Randolf really have been such a horrible option to try there? Oy veh…. sometimes, this team.

    49. Owen

      It never ends, the Kobe talk, and I have to say, I love it.

      You going to look at the stats first?

      From True Hoop:

      “Yahoo’s Adrian Wojnarowski gets Kobe Bryant to address the suggestion that Bryant’s not the king of crunch time:
      “People kind of get bored with things that I’ve done, so they try to find new ones to talk about or try to find numbers to justify certain things,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday. “That’s what happens when you win. I remember Magic and Michael [Jordan] going through similar things. Hey, the talk before was that I couldn’t do it without Shaq. Well I did that. And then I did it again. Now it’s something else. They’re always going to come for something else.

      “But I win. We win.”

      After the Los Angeles Lakers practiced on Wednesday, Bryant wore a black ski cap, ankle tape and a bemused grin in the bleachers of Emerson College. Here, he spit out his metaphors through the stark prism with which he sees the game. Bryant still believes this season will come down to big shots because it always does. He still believes that ball belongs in his hands because those moments have always belonged to him.

      “If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick?” Bryant asked. “You’re going to look at the stats first?”

    50. jon abbey

      ess-dog:
      Only Knick possibilities for title:CP3/Melo/Stat
      Williams/Melo/Stat
      CP3/Howard/Stat
      Williams/Howard/Stat
      Nash/Melo/Stat/Gallo or Chandler
      Felton/Melo/Stat/HowardThat’s about it.Maybe if we can add a Kevin Martin or a Steph Curry and a Marc Gasol to the current core we could get close?  

      only the three that involve Howard have a real shot IMO.

      I also think more and more that Chris Paul is overrated as one of the top 5 players in the league, I think I’d prefer Deron Williams (or Rose or Rondo) if given a choice of PGs.

    51. John Kenney

      “Even before the game, you could tell by facial expressions and body english, we weren’t ready to go.” – Amare

      The one good thing that came out of this game was the term body english. heheh

    52. Jimmy C

      Does anyone else find it strange that Jerry Sloan and Hosni Mubarak are about to step down at the same time?

    53. Brian Cronin

      Apparently, Deron Williams said it was either him or Sloan. Man, that really says a lot (and not good things) about Deron Williams.

    54. NateRobinson

      @ 61

      Wow that really says a lot. Why would he sabotage a long tenured coach like Sloan. He’s done so much with an average roster for the most part. He took Greg Ostertag (sp?) to the Finals for christ sakes.

      I for one do not like the vocal leaders that do not lead by example. Granted there might be instances where MDA is the one telling STAT to be less aggressive on D but me no likey the noise. But at the end of the day they all played horribly (except TDDWTDD).

    55. totti

      Doug,

      i watch a lot of nba games, i love this sport. I used to watch the golden era of the suns under coach dantoni and two times mvp nash. Do you remember nash pickandroll with stat? The way he only served the ball to a moving towards the rim stat? Now think to all the isolations stat plays at the elbow, now with knicks. Please someone has to tell mike that felton is not mvp nash because our coach did not realize yet. Wizard of the offense? Come on, the only wizard was nash and his golden hands. That’s the true with this most overrated coach of the century: no organized team defense neither in phoenix nor in new york and an offense that worked at perfection with nash. Now in new york, this media celebrated offense relies on three points accuracy and on elbow Stat isos. Without speaking of defense…….how can a basketball passionate can be happy with the way the knicks defend? Ask to williams or chandler if they are ok with guarding others bigs.
      No Doug, to me this coach is simply not competent enough to guide an elite nash-less nba team.
      Now, if new york plans to win in the near future…….

    56. John Kenney

      also from marc stein: “From everything known about latest clashes, frustrated as D-Will was/is, it was Sloan who essentially said “me or him.” Result: Resignation”

    57. Nick C.

      “It’s time to stop playing games. It’s time to stop acting like the Knicks are a solid team just a star away from championship credibility. … The Knicks came out with limited game because that’s all they have. That’s who they are. And that is who they’ll remain until they get another star in the Garden.”

      Does anyone read this before it goes out?

      So they are not just a star away but they must must trade 2-3 starters to get a “star.” WTF

    58. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, it would be hilarious is the Knicks “caved in” by just trading Felton for Billups on top of the announced deal.

      That said, I hate the “And if two of those three is not enough to woo the Nuggets into making a deal, there are other options to consider — as I’ve now learned.” part. Smith, you realize that Donnie has not even offered two of those three, so why say “if two of those three is not enough to woo the Nuggets?”?!?

      But moreover, the dumbest part of the article (emphasis added). ..

      “To put it bluntly: LeBron James knew he wanted to go to Miami, but that doesn’t mean the Knicks didn’t blow an opportunity. Donnie Walsh wasn’t in the greatest of health at the time. According to sources, he also didn’t schmooze as much as he needed to with LeBron’s camp in the months leading up to The Decision.”

      That’s exactly what it means, Stephen! Lebron knew he was going to Miami, so the Knicks had no opportunity to blow!

    59. nicos

      @64,65 I’m not sure Billups has the legs left to play this system. If the Knicks plan is to bring Carmelo over and have him & Stat play a two man game on 75% of possessions (and if that’s not the plan then there is no point in trading for Melo, whether that’s a good plan is another story) then Billups makes sense because he spreads the floor far better than Felton with his superior shooting. But Billups on his own? I don’t see it helping a whole lot.
      Also, one silver lining is that TD seems to have gotten his shooting stroke back- 60%TS in the last 5 games- if no backup point guard is coming I’d love to see D’Antoni really go to a pressing second unit- They press in the backcourt now but I’d like to see them try it full court- it’s pretty clear that that unit is pretty awful on offense in the half court so anything that helps get them out in transition would really help. It’s also the only way I think AR has any chance of getting some meaningful burn.

    60. jon abbey

      Brian Cronin: But moreover, the dumbest part of the article (emphasis added). ..“To put it bluntly: LeBron James knew he wanted to go to Miami, but that doesn’t mean the Knicks didn’t blow an opportunity. Donnie Walsh wasn’t in the greatest of health at the time. According to sources, he also didn’t schmooze as much as he needed to with LeBron’s camp in the months leading up to The Decision.”That’s exactly what it means, Stephen! Lebron knew he was going to Miami, so the Knicks had no opportunity to blow!  

      SAS is a total idiot, but I do think the Knicks could have made a better case, starting with Walsh not botching the 2009 draft as he did.

    61. BigBlueAL

      Jimmy C:
      Outstanding.  

      Best part is he just tweeted: “I did manage to sell a few jerseys.. Those parts didn’t make the cut though lol”

    62. NateRobinson

      Lol @ the STAT impression…

      Don’t trade this guy!!! Or Gallo for that matter…

      One thing I’ve been noticing is Shawne ‘Extra E’ Williams’ precipitous decline in shooting this month. I think its time to give either Walker or ‘someone else’ some burn. His defense is not all that its advertised around here. The only commendable thing I can say about him is his energy and that he fouls everyone at the basket.

    63. jon abbey

      this is good to see, from Chad Ford’s new Insider column on Sloan/Deron Williams:

      “In particular, the Knicks, according to sources, have Williams as a top priority, ahead of even Anthony and Chris Paul.”

    64. Caleb

      The most intriguing thing: a suggestion that the Jazz might consider trading him before Feb. 24, to avoid a Carmelo-like situation next year… with offers dropping fast.

    65. BigBlueAL

      Well one thing is for sure, to trade for Derron Williams you wont be able to lowball them because right now still all the leverage is with Utah. To get him the “Big 3″ of Gallo/Fields/Chandler will all have to be available amongst probably everyone else besides Stat.

      So is it willing giving Utah anything they want besides Stat for DWill unlike for Melo??

    66. DS

      jon abbey: this is good to see, from Chad Ford’s new Insider column on Sloan/Deron Williams:“In particular, the Knicks, according to sources, have Williams as a top priority, ahead of even Anthony and Chris Paul.”  

      Which, of course was followed by, “New York could offer players such as Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari and Landry Fields, but the Jazz would likely hear better offers.”

    67. DS

      Let me preface by saying that I don’t believe DWill is on the block.

      But if he were, the Knicks would prob. offer a better package than they’d offer for ‘Melo PLUS Felton.

    68. Brian Cronin

      SAS is a total idiot, but I do think the Knicks could have made a better case, starting with Walsh not botching the 2009 draft as he did.

      Oh, I totally agree that they could have been in a better position, vis a vis the draft. However, SAS was strictly talking about their presentation to Lebron and how they were not prepared/Walsh was in a wheelchair/etc. And that argument (which we’ve heard a lot before) is so bogus, since Lebron had already made up his mind before ever taking the meeting.

    69. massive

      Maybe we can pull off a deal for D-Will in the offseason. I’m thinking Felton, Turiaf, Gallo, and whoever we draft in the 1st round this year for D-Will and C.J. Miles.

    70. afrikan_hermis

      knickterp:
      Your single-minded aversion to the system implies that Mike Fratello, Hubie “walk it up” Brown, Scott Skiles, and Jeff Van Gundy are all busy polishing their NBA Championship rings right now.Here are the “systems” that have won titles:
      The Kobe/Shaq system
      The Kobe/Gasol system
      The Pierce/KG/Allen system
      The Duncan/Ginobili/Parker system
      The DWade/Shaq system etc.
      I’d love to believe the Amar’e/Fields/Gallo system is next on the list, but I’m skeptical.  

      @48 Knickterp
      hahaa. In response to totti’s “fire D’antoni” post, I mentioned in my post @ 43 all the 4 COACHES RESPONSIBLE for the 5 championship systems you’ve mentioned in response to my ” single minded aversion to the D’anPHONY ( my single minded pun here) system. i.e.
      Kobe/Shaq system……………………..coach=Phil Jackson
      Kobe/Gasol system……………………..coach=Phil Jackson
      Pierce/KG/Allen system…………………coach=Doc Rivers
      Duncan/Ginobili/Parker system…………coach=Popovittch
      D Wade/Shaq system……………………coach=Riles=Pat Riley. Precisely ALL the names of the 4 coaches I referred to @ 43!
      Now Knickterp, I ask you, any reason you NEVER included the Nash/Stat system i.e =coach D’anPHONI, which was even a far better team than the present Knick team?
      Folks mark my word, following the Knicks and basketball for over 40 years spanning Clyde/ Debuschere system and Clyde/Earl Monroe system, I AGREE with, @ 55 morenonsense, that D’anPHONI “needs to instill defense” and with, @ 63 totti, that ” overrated D’antoni ” cannot win championship. Folks, I REPEAT, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.This clueless, inflexible, defenseless, SSOL D’anPHONI system can NEVER bring championship to New York, Melo or no Melo. PERIOD! The best remedy for NY is first to FIRE D’anPHONI and replace him quickly with Hakeem, Clyde and Patrick or grab Jerry…

    71. Brian Cronin

      At least the Lakers won tonight, hopefully they wont be that motivated tomorrow night lol.

      Hehe…it’s hilarious that I always think the same thing. Does it typically work that way? I’m always glad when a team wins right before facing the Knicks.

    72. BigBlueAL

      Im sorry, watching Melo tonight and in the past 2 weeks screw whatever stat you wanna use cause he is damn freaking good.

      He could play a 1 on 2 vs Gallo/Fields and beat them lol.

    73. BahamaKnick

      BigBlueAL: Im sorry, watching Melo tonight and in the past 2 weeks screw whatever stat you wanna use cause he is damn freaking good.He could play a 1 on 2 vs Gallo/Fields and beat them lol.  

      +1

    74. BigBlueAL

      Melo tonight with 42 pts 17 for 24 FG, 5 for 7 3pt but only 3 for 3 FT.

      In February (6 games) averaging 32.8 ppg on .563 FG% and is 52 for 60 from FT. Even shooting 11 for 20 from 3pt. Not gonna list any other stats though cause they arent very good lol. For the season he does have a higher TS% than David Lee though :-)

    75. afrikan_hermis

      @ 91: latke
      Are you joking or you are serious as I read you are? While I am all for the selection for the Nuggets, though I don’t think they want to give up the 1st round request, why do we empty the farm to Utta to get D Will, who just disrespected and perpetrated the resignation of the perennial and venerable Jerry Sloan? Noooo Way in my book.Not even if D Will was not involved. You only empty the farm like this for Howard, NEVER FOR GOD’S SAKE D Will. This trade machine nonsense honestly bothers me a lot. It’s a waste of time cracking our brains on them; they simply lack real life common sense.

    76. Brian Cronin

      By the way, in case anyone was curious, with Jeff Fisher fired and Jerry Sloan bumped out of Utah, the new “dean” of American pro sports is Tony Larussa, who has been with the Cardinals for 15 seasons.

      Gregg Popovich has been coaching the Spurs for about 14 and a half seasons, making him the longest-tenured NBA coach (talk about a drop-off, by the way, 23 years to 14.5).

      Andy Ruff is the longest-tenured NHL coach at 14 seasons (I had no clue he had been there that long – wow).

      The longest-tenured NFL coach is Andy Reid at 12 seasons.

    77. d-mar

      Brian Cronin:
      Hehe…it’s hilarious that I always think the same thing. Does it typically work that way? I’m always glad when a team wins right before facing the Knicks.  

      Well if we keep up our trend of splitting with pretty much every team in the West (Suns, Kings, Blazers, Clips, Spurs, Thunder, Wolves, Warriors, Nuggets) then we should be just fine – and I agree, I wanted LA to win last night so they wouldn’t be feeling too ornery at MSG.

    78. Brian Cronin

      I love that the Bulls gain 3 wins in that trade. Man, why did they add the win projection thing? I bet even Hollinger would agree that it makes little to no sense.

    79. NYK Ewing

      the trade machine emblemizes everything that is wrong with overusing certain stats to analyze basketball

    80. Shad0wF0x

      NYK Ewing: the trade machine emblemizes everything that is wrong with overusing certain stats to analyze basketball  

      Isn’t the trade machine just a “it’ll work salary-wise” tool?

    81. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      LeBron, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, and two 3rd graders win 70 games. I’m sure we could make it work in the salary machine.

    82. endyendy

      bobneptune:
      mike d’antoni could play the gene hackman role in hoosiers. mike would like a nice , tight 5 man rotation. the water boy could be the 6th man off the bench  

      Hey, I grabbed Afflalo so we could have a 6th man.

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