Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

Celtics 114, Knicks 73: Knickerblogger goes to Church

Boston Celtics 114 Final
Recap | Box Score
73 New York Knicks
Andrea Bargnani, PF

23 MIN | 1-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 2 PTS | -34

Andreuvius had come from the north, of fair skin and disposition, and of kind temperament. And the Malachites had taken great liking of his talents with the flute, and had built for the stranger a great fire, and a great many sheep and goats were given to him that they might be his charges. And the next day the great tall stranger forgot to latch the gate, and the beasts escaped, and the people starved, and God brought no relief to their sufferings, but to curse the stranger with a great rash. And he itched the rash, and the rash bled, and he could find no ointment with which to heal it.

Thespians 2:60

Carmelo Anthony, SF

32 MIN | 5-15 FG | 8-10 FT | 5 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 19 PTS | -40

The Philistines had chosen Goliath, a man four rods in height and large and considerable in size. And the Israelites chose David, slight of stature but steady with the rock sling. And another of the Israelites names Charmel protested, and asserted thee as the foremost thrower of rocks. And Noah listened to and considered his please, and asked God for advice. And God laughed, and lit a bush beside David, and said his was the Kingdom of efficiency. And so David was chosen. And Charmel doth pouted a great pout.

Jesus Christ Superstar, 3:7

Raymond Felton, PG

20 MIN | 0-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -38

Bobediah had watched the Jerusalites falter, and had seen among them one of unending concern. And this man’s name was Razekial, and Razekial had been slow to follow in their journey. And when he had his men gathered, Bobediah spoke and lamented Razekial. ‘And any man who finds thy faculties felled, or if thy legs and arms hath been stunted and made unsound, or thy movements reveal much imbibing in fatty meats, or thy thoughts and actions reduced to that of a beast, thine is the curse of many generations, and thy shall be cast to pine for eternity.’ So it was done to Razekial, who was cast to pine, which measured one fathom in length, and one span in width, and which was studded with many splinters, as was God’s will.

Bohemians 5:11

Iman Shumpert, SG

31 MIN | 0-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 0 PTS | -31

Amongst the Canaanites there lived a man named Yemin. And Yemin had lost his flock to a plague and had become spiteful, and had forsaken his people, and had taken to dwelling alone in his home, which measured one reed in height, and which had become musty. And Yemin had shaved the hair upon his head, which had become considerable in dearth. And this did not please God, and brought great trouble into his home, where he lived with his seven wives and children, which counted twoscore and five. And his anger became more than his tribe could bear, and Yemin was delievered unto another passing tribe, and smited with great fervor, And he and his family were taken in by the foreign tribe, and he would take many more wives and make many more children. And it was good.

Ulysses 3:780

Tim Hardaway Jr., SG

25 MIN | 3-7 FG | 1-1 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 3 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 8 PTS | -29

Moses told Jesus of a prodigal son, named Timothias, the son of Timothias the elder, a dung mason. And the younger Timothias was full of talents, but his heart hath floundered by virtue of false schooling. And Jesus invited this man into his flock, and gave him many breads and fruits, and loved him and counseled him, and granted him a place in the inner circle. And then Timothy took to sleep during a most important sermon, and was cast about into the rocks and the trees and the wilderness, where he was made to repent and deliver lashes to his own back and acknowledge his own wickedness. After forty days he returned, and was invited back into the flock, but the flock judged that they would not share their figs. And this saddened Timothy, who did enjoy figs.

Mike 2:3

Amar’e Stoudemire, PF

21 MIN | 5-7 FG | 7-10 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 17 PTS | -12

And the Abyssinian Jew, named Amir, who was tall and of sturdy stock, and who worshiped but one God in defiance of his people, who were the charges of the Egyptians. And Amir came to Galilee bearing much gold, and stood upon the rocky outcrop to be seen by his adopted people. And towards the gold ran a thief, named Markezial, great great great grandson of Vordachai, who begat Walter, who begat Brosephus, who who begat Steven. And Markezial moved to steal the stranger’s gold, and the stranger was slow of foot, and collapsed, and removed his sports goggles and threw them in anger. And the people jeered with great fervor. And God burned the land, and the people repented, and it was good.

Laminations 27:3

Metta World Peace, SF

20 MIN | 5-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 12 PTS | +1

It came to pass that the best crop had been sewn by Mettayahu, a strange mystic who had aged a full 700 years. His children, of which there were 80, and grandchildren, of which there were 600, and great grandchildren, of which there were 3,000, had left him, and Mettayahu had tended the acreage by his own hand, and the crops came in full and flowering, and it fed the village during the worst famine. And he would grind the wheat, which measured 12 kabs in quantity, and to the wheat he would add water, and with the wheat and the water he would make a wet bread, and from this wet bread he would make shells, and he would place these shells in boiling water, and he would cook the shells in boiling water for five to seven minutes, or until just tender, being sure not to overcook, and he would strain the shells, and he would add tomatoes and olive oil, and with this he would feed the village, and this brought the village much joy, as eating shells from the sea would cause their eyes to melt and their limbs to fall onto the ground and shatter, and they would be damned for eternity. And the shells pleased all bout Kenneth, who preferred elbows.

Confucious, 10:40

Pablo Prigioni, PG

17 MIN | 1-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 4 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | 0

And Peter came to the supper, and upon the table he laid his fish, which were abundant and fresh. And the Apostles quickly consumed all the fish, leaving nothing for Peter, and this displeased Peter. And Peter turned to Jesus and spoke, ‘I , how do you say, for team do I everything. And team nothing do for everyone in return!’ And Jesus merely stroked Peter’s hair, and kissed him upon the forehead, and told him he should improve his speaking, but that his brothers would learn from him. But Peter did not believe it, and turned his back upon his brothers and joined the Menonite hordes.

Invictus 15:24

Beno Udrih, PG

13 MIN | 2-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -7

The Romans in the hall were led by Benodictus, who was white of skin and who shaped his hair with the finest lard. And it was to Benodictus that Jesus came before he went to Pilot. And Benodictus confided in Jesus his many troubles, and said that he was too often left idle and without duties. And Jesus spoke, ‘If thou are not conscripted by wicked forces, thou remain unsullied.’ And Benodictus wept, and told Jesus he was sorry for Jesus’ sufferings. And Jesus spoke, ‘Don’t sweat it. Not your fault.’

Easter 7:12

J.R. Smith, SG

27 MIN | 1-5 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 3 PTS | -11

Of Zoobediah’s three son’s, Jerricho was most wayward, and gave his father and his mother many fits. And when Jericho arrived to temple, the scent of wine permeated his movements, for the night before he had consumed much wine, which measured 10 logs in quantity, and which was of questionable quality. And his eyes being red and his body limp, Jericho was made to sit next to his mother and father, whom Jericho had besmirched, and the rabbi cast his fury upon the family. And so the rabbi stood, and drew a scimitar, and slew a goat, and drank the blood, and consumed the eyes and the snout, and burned the remains upon the pyre, and slew a calf by the same method, and a then another goat, and then another calf, and then a pagan. And the rabbi did look upon Jerricho with spite, and made Jerricho clean up the alter, which had been made messy.

Julius Caesar, 12:47

Mike Woodson

And Jehosephet told the tale of a small village near Bethlehem. And this place housed a village fool, and the fool was not a man of God, for he did not possess such advanced faculties. And the fool would wake every morning, and paint his chin with strange ink, and rap his own head with a club. And after so much rapping the fool would be laid assunder, and when he awoke again was angry to not have seen the Lord. And so he would rap his own head again, and so again, and so again, and so again, and so again, until the villagers removed the club from his hand, and cast the fool into the desert. And the fool wandered in the desert until he was hired by the Milwaukee Bucks.

Blasphemy 1:1

Three Things We Saw

  1. I passed by the field of a sluggard, by the vineyard of a man lacking sense, and behold, it was all overgrown with thorns; the ground was covered with nettles, and its stone wall was broken down. Then I saw and considered it; I looked and received instruction. A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man.

    Proverbs 20:30-34

  2. For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.

    Corinthians 12:20

  3. A new heaven and new earth replace the old. There is no more suffering or death.

    Revelations 21:1

134 comments on “Celtics 114, Knicks 73: Knickerblogger goes to Church

  1. JK47

    Being the LLVP is like being the least worst guy in The Eagles.

    The least worst Eagle, by the way, is Joe Walsh, followed by Timothy B. Schmit. Then Bernie Leadon is the third least worst Eagle, followed by Randy Meisner. Don Henley and Glenn Frey are tied for the fifth least worst Eagle, and bringing up the rear is Don Felder, the most worst Eagle. He wrote “Hotel California” and sued everybody 30 times, and his daughter is friends with the Kardashians. Don Felder: most worst Eagle.

  2. d-mar

    I always had a grudging respect for the Eagles just for turning out that many hits, but when I watched that Showtime special it made me realize what insufferable douchebags Henley and Frey are.

  3. Kahnzy

    It came to pass that the best crop had been sewn by Mettayahu, a strange mystic who had aged a full 700 years. His children, of which there were 80, and grandchildren, of which there were 600, and great grandchildren, of which there were 3,000, had left him, and Mettayahu had tended the acreage by his own hand, and the crops came in full and flowering, and it fed the village during the worst famine. And he would grind the what, and to the wheat he would add water, and with the wheat and the water he would make a wet bread, and from this wet bread he would make shells, and he would place these shells in boiling water, and he would cook the shells in boiling water for five to seven minutes, or until just tender, and he would strain the shells, and he would add tomatoes and olive oil, and with this he would feed the village, and this brought the village much joy, as eating shells from the sea would cause their eyes to melt and their limbs fall onto the ground, and they would be damned for eternity. And the shells pleased all bout Kenneth, who preferred elbows.

    That one gave me quite the belly laugh. Good stuff.

  4. Bison

    As I’ve said before, I’m probably delusional. The last two wins gave me hope that Melo had changed to a ball-sharing team player.

    Who am I kidding. This guy doesn’t have the discipline to stick with anything. The ballstopping Melo is back, and we lose big time. Ugh.

  5. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Best, Recap. Ever.

    The Mike Woodson bit sealed the deal:

    And so he would rap his own head again, and so again, and so again, and so again, and so again, until the villagers removed the club from his hand, and cast the fool into the desert. And the fool wandered in the desert until he was hired by the Milwaukee Bucks.

    Blasphemy 1:1

    We ever meet in person, sir Jim, your first drink is on me for that one.

  6. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    IF YOU CAN’T LIE NO BETTA
    if you can’t li-eeeeee
    IF YOU CAN’T LIE — NO — BETTA
    if you can’t li-eeeeee
    IF YOU CAN’T LIE — NO — BETTA — THAN — THAT
    (“Pause, Jimmy. You have to wait a second. That’s how music works.”)
    YOU MIGHT AS WELL TELL THE TRUTH

  7. Zanzibar

    While Woody needs to be fired, a large part of the blame for this game falls on Melo. Our shooting flows from ball movement which, in turn, is primarily triggered by Melo. And our defense is much better when our offense is clicking but with spread lineups the idea is to score and just hold the line on D. We saw it at its best against Orlando and worst against Boston. Melo ISOs, Brandon B defends well (like in the playoffs), Boston does not need to double, ball movement suffers, offense stagnates. It’s not like Knicks didn’t know this could happen. The antidote obviously was to run PnRs, something Melo is very good at it but for some reason does not seem willing to make more a part of his game. Maybe he feels real men don’t need picks. Perhaps, anticipating how Celts would defend, the Knicks should have started the game with Amare at the 5 and just run Melo/Amare PnRs. If this blowout is what it takes to wake Woody and Melo up, then it will have been worth it. But this just seems part of a larger problem that this coach only finds the correct solutions after exhausting all other possibilities.

  8. d-mar

    I said it in the Magic game thread, it makes no sense to double Melo, I don’t care who is guarding him. Let him go iso and stay at home on the 3 point shooters.

    I do think when Tyson comes back, it’ll help the offense a lot, as he seems to be the only big who knows how to set a solid screen and he and Felton run the pick and roll pretty well.

    Of course, by then we’ll be 5-20.

  9. Hubert

    I feel like all we need to know is that we double teamed Bass more than they double teamed Melo.

    Our couch is an idiot. He is a fucking idiot. Stop blaming the players or Melo or anyone else. The coach is an idiot and it all stems from that.

  10. Hubert

    But this just seems part of a larger problem that this coach only finds the correct solutions after exhausting all other possibilities.

    I’m sorry, what correct solutions has he found? He’s found zero solutions. He hasn’t even demonstrated that he knows what the problems are. His answer to bad ball movement is to play Stat Melo and AB together. All he knows how to do when things go wrong is go big and hope the players fix it themselves. That is not a coach. He doesn’t actually coach. He’s a chaperone.

    The only time we ever get solutions that work is when injuries force him into choosing the right lineup.

  11. hoolahoop

    Just like Melo, I’m going back to my old ideology . . . as the day he arrived.
    He’s a ball stopping, selfish, chucking, “me” player that cares more about his points than winning and will be a loser as long as he’s in NY – or just a very very low basketball IQ player.
    Perfect guy for this pathetic organization.

    Dolan is clueless.
    Woodson is horrible.
    The team was constructed terribly.

    The reason I don’t blame the players – Bargs, Felton and even JR is because the team is just a bunch of role players built around Melo that can fit under the cap. At least Amare has an excuse. His knees are shot.

    From the top of the organization to the best player on the team, not an ounce of leadership.

    This is the most disgraceful loss I can remember.
    knicks suck.

  12. Will the Thrill

    I said it in the Magic game thread, it makes no sense to double Melo, I don’t care who is guarding him. Let him go iso and stay at home on the 3 point shooters.

    I am shocked that other teams haven’t figured this out. Our offense (without Chandler’s pick and rolls) is almost strictly based on Melo going 1 on 1 or drawing a double. It’s not like Melo will score 50 every game if he’s only covered by 1 person. Guarding Melo 1 on 1 is a great way to force him into unneeded isolations and make the offense much easier to defend (with no place for ball movement to start).

  13. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, I agree that whatever is wrong with this team is not all on Woody’s head, but since they can’t trade any of the players (besides the guys you’d prefer them not trade), then the best way of possibly improving the team is still firing Woody. The problem is, of course, that Herb Williams might be less of a strategic mind than Woody is, and that’s saying a whole lot.

  14. DRed

    I missed this one (fortunately), but when you lose by 41 at home to a bad team, it’s not because of coaching, or because Melo is selfish, it’s because you don’t have that much talent. We’re not as bad as this game makes it seem, but we’re obviously not as good as we seemed against the last two horrible teams we beat. Until Chandler comes back we’re just one of a bunch of bad teams in the Atlantic Division. Sometimes we’ll beat bad teams, sometimes they’ll beat us, and that’s about all it is.

  15. dtrickey

    Until Chandler comes back we’re just one of a bunch of bad teams in the Atlantic Division. Sometimes we’ll beat bad teams, sometimes they’ll beat us, and that’s about all it is.

    I would tend to agree with this, but I’m still hopefull we can come out with a decent record over the next little stretch against some “softer” opponents.

    Was definitely not the result I was expecting when I checked the scores when I woke up this morning. Credit to Boston, but I really didn’t think they would have been 40+ better, especially considering we were starting to build some momentum. Credit also to Stevens. For a team that was built to suck, he’s doing an impressive job.

  16. knickster

    Our problems stem from a simple fact: the front office spent 85% of the cap on 3 players, so the rest of the team was not built based on need but availability.

    Artest, Udrih, Aldrich, Felton, Prigione, Martin, etc., are here because they were available and cheap, not necessarily because they fit our needs.

    Something worth remembering when Melo opts out. 130 millions on a specialty player is is just another sin from our past…

  17. Hubert

    Except when Chandler comes back our coach will still be an idiot.

    In other news, Sacramento is about to acquire Rudy Gay. Damn that Masai is a good GM.

  18. BigBlueAL

    Lineups with Melo-Amar’e-Bargnani had shot 35.7% and been outscored by 44.6 pts/100 in 48 minutes coming in. Yet that is the frontcourt lineup Woodson decided to start the 2nd half with which was his halftime lineup adjustment. The guy has no freaking clue.

  19. BigBlueAL

    This team should not be 5-14 even with Chandler out the majority of the games. Even the biggest pre-season haters wouldnt argue that this team was going to start 5-14. Woodson has a huge part in this horrendous start. Should they be 14-5?? No. But even a bad start for this team should be something like 8-11 not 5-14. 8-11 sucks too but considering Chandler being out you can justify it and hope his return would help this team turn it around and at the very least easily win this horrible division. But the biggest pre-season fears I had of Woodson using horrible lineups is even worse than I could have ever feared.

    I know many here dont think it matters because this team’s future is screwed and who cares if they win 40something games and the division they still suck. Thats probably true but screw that at the very least I want to win the division which would mean a decent chance at making the 2nd round. Sure they will then most likely get smoked by the Heat or Pacers but I dont care, I just want to see my favorite team play as deep into the season as possible.

  20. KnickfaninNJ

    Lineups with Melo-Amar’e-Bargnani had shot 35.7% and been outscored by 44.6 pts/100 in 48 minutes coming in. Yet that is the frontcourt lineup Woodson decided to start the 2nd half with which was his halftime lineup adjustment. The guy has no freaking clue.

    I think this is more defensible and less complicated than it seems. I didn’t see the game (fortunately), but checked the score periodically on my phone. The Knicks scored 31 points in two quarters. I think Woodson just looked at the score and decided to put in guys known for scoring. And the third quarter turned out to be the highest scoring quarter for the Knicks in the game. And it was an average quarter for the game in terms of +/-. I’m not saying I would have done it, just that if you have to catch up a lot of points, it’s not totally unreasonable to put in that sort of line up; and the decision to do so seems to have made very little difference to how the game went.

  21. Hubert

    Lineups with Melo-Amar’e-Bargnani had shot 35.7% and been outscored by 44.6 pts/100 in 48 minutes coming in. Yet that is the frontcourt lineup Woodson decided to start the 2nd half with which was his halftime lineup adjustment. The guy has no freaking clue.

    But “all those lineup stats, that’s still up in the air”.

    Better to go big, no matter what the situation calls for. If you’re ever in trouble, just go big.

    It could be worse. We could have acquired Rudy Gay and recreated the Marbury-Francis backcourt with a Melo-Gay frontcourt.

  22. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Here’s a blow it up trade idea that’ll never happen (and I can’t pull off yet in the ESPN Trade Machine until next Sunday the 15th so I’m working off-the-cuff on this):

    Three team parlay – Knicks, Detroit and Washington

    Knicks ship Melo to Detroit, Felton to DC
    Detroit ships Josh Smith to NY, Greg Monroe to DC
    Washington ships Trevor Ariza and Eric Maynor to us, Gortat to Detroit

    Can’t work in the salaries completely due to the trade machine disallowing free agent signees to be traded before December 15th. But I really think that’s a start. Anyone interested to tinker?

  23. mokers

    I think Woodson just looked at the score and decided to put in guys known for scoring.

    Justifiable maybe to keep Melo in because you think he can work it out. Justifiable to put STAT in, because after a bad start, he was playing hard on both ends and seemed in a good flow. Absolutely no reason for Bargs to be in (I’ve defended him a lot) as he didn’t have anything going tonight. Even worse, he left Felton in there when he was awful. And even if you give Woodson the benefit of the doubt when it comes to starting the second half, we were out of the game by the 4th quarter and it should have just been garbage time. Just terrible all around.

  24. mokers

    The team does not need added salary past 2015. If the Knicks have to take on salary past 2015, they need to get draft picks. I would basically see if the Knicks can get within .500 at the all-star break. Give them some time with a healthy Chandler. If not, I trade whoever we can who is older than 25 for draft picks in 2014 and 2015.

  25. hoolahoop

    I missed this one (fortunately), but when you lose by 41 at home to a bad team, it’s not because of coaching, or because Melo is selfish, it’s because you don’t have that much talent. ……..

    I disagree. The knicks may be on the lower echelon of talented teams in the league, but they have much more talent than the Celtics. And Melo is top three (maybe #1) most talented players in the NBA. They just play stupid stupid basketball. That’s what makes this game so infuriating.
    Trade coaches. Trade scores.

  26. Donnie Walsh

    I would basically see if the Knicks can get within .500 at the all-star break.

    If you really think this team can go 21-12 between now and the all-star break, then, sure, carry on. But what does .500 at the break get you? False hope that the team is a “contender” (like last year’s .658 got you)? Yes, .400 will probably win you the Atlantic division this year. Yippee.

    The way I see it, anything that can be done to improve the team in the long run should be done, post-haste (including listening to offers for Anthony, Shumpert, and rehabilitating Chandler with the intent to move him).

  27. hoolahoop

    I know a lot of people in this forum hate Woodson for his rotations. What irks me even more about him is:
    - the plays they run after a timeout. Completely elementary and ineffective. Laughable.
    - the excessive switching on defense (which had been getting better lately).
    - the knicks lack of energy. Every team seems to want it more than the knicks – loose balls, rebounds, and all around hustle.
    - LACK OF BALL MOVEMENT. The elite coaches would not tolerate it.
    - selfish sloppy play.

  28. StatsTeacher

    Haven’t posted in months, but still lurk. Just want to say bravo to that recap — awesome !

    Reading here + P&T a lot of blame is going Woodson’s way, maybe a lot of it deserved, but the majority of the blame should be more squarely placed on Dolan for building this dumpster fire of a roster.

  29. hoolahoop

    Melo is pretty objectively not a top 3 player.

    Top 3 in talent. Whatever that means.

    Talent, meaning that Melo’s potential is higher than anyone else in the league – including Lebron.
    - He’s an offensive monster. The best scorer in the league.
    - He’s a big strong body that can rebound, and consistently get offensive rebounds, especially on his missed shots.
    - He can put the ball on the floor. For his size and strength, he has a great handle. He dribbles better than anyone else his size.
    - He can shoot threes.
    - He can drive.
    - He can run the floor.
    - He’s tough.
    - Great free throw shooter.
    - He’s capable of great defense.
    - Plays with complete confidence. (probably too much), but A necessary attribute for any elite athlete.
    - He’s a warrior. Brings it night in, night out.
    Melo is just a smooth player, especially for his size. How many times have you mixed him up with K. Mart during a game? Except, K-Mart can’t dribble or shoot – like most guys of his size and strength. There are a lot of smooth 6’0′ers that weigh 165 pounds. Melo’s a beast and plays with the dexterity of a much smaller man.

    What kills me about him, and why I constantly beat him up here, is that he plays so far below his potential. Ball stopping and taking difficult shot after difficult shot make him terribly inefficient. He never saw a shot he didn’t like. It destroys team chemistry and makes everyone else on the team worse than they are. Stupid basketball.
    Great talent. Not great basketball player.

  30. Owen

    Talent, meaning that Melo’s potential is higher than anyone else in the league – including Lebron.
    - He’s an offensive monster. The best scorer in the league.

    He’s not an offensive monster. Kevin Durant is an offensive monster.

    A guy with a career ts% of 54.5% has no business being called an offensive monster.

    He just isn’t that good.

  31. hoolahoop

    In the right coaches hands, I believe Melo, AND a good cast of complimentary players, can lead a team to a championship.
    Mills is not that GM.
    Woodson is not that coach.
    He needs a coach that can match wills with him to force him to play team ball.

  32. EB

    As much as I do not like Melo right now, I think the blame goes on the starting backcourt that shot 0-12 for 0 points. Or if you include Bargnani, three starters went 1-19 for 2 pts. You know approximately 5% from the field. FIVE!!!! Single digits averaged over three guys who combined for 1 FGM.

    Melo doesn’t play like a superstar, but when half of your team has a TS% under .500, you won’t compete too often.

  33. hoolahoop

    He’s not an offensive monster. Kevin Durant is an offensive monster.

    A guy with a career ts% of 54.5% has no business being called an offensive monster.

    He just isn’t that good.

    That’s because he takes so many difficult shots, double and triple teamed. Complete stupidity.
    If he shot more selectively, like the two prior games, his ts% would skyrocket.
    I don’t expect that to ever happen – until he leaves NY.

  34. hoolahoop

    As much as I do not like Melo right now, I think the blame goes on the starting backcourt that shot 0-12 for 0 points. Or if you include Bargnani, three starters went 1-19 for 2 pts. You know approximately 5% from the field. FIVE!!!! Single digits averaged over three guys who combined for 1 FGM.

    Melo doesn’t play like a superstar, but when half of your team has a TS% under .500, you won’t compete too often.

    It’s not that they suck that bad. It’s how they play the game that sucks.
    Explain to me what happened the last two wins. Sure, inferior defense by their opponents, but it was much more than that. You could tell as soon as they got on the court.
    BALL MOVEMENT and ENERGY.

  35. Bruno Almeida

    My F******* god, Masai Ujiri is a genius, he just off-loaded RUDY GAY and his albatross of a contract and got not only Vazquez back (pretty good trade chip and guarantee if Lowry bolts) and Patrick Patterson, but also made the team worse without taking back pretty much any long term contracts

  36. Zanzibar

    anything that can be done to improve the team in the long run should be done, post-haste (including listening to offers for Anthony, Shumpert, and rehabilitating Chandler with the intent to move him).

    I would agree if we were in the Western Conference. Right now, I’m still on the fence given the weakness of the EC. Look we effectively beat the red hot Pacers this season and the Heat could be very shaky given Wade’s health and the age/mileage of other key players. We have a bizarre group of one-dimensional, low bbiq players yet at the same time very talented. We’ve got the only stretch 5 in the league. We’ve got one of the top 5 shot creators. We’ve got athletic wings. We’ve got a top 10 center. We’ve got 7 rotation players who are avg+ 3ballers. When notorious knick-hater Barkley says we could be a top 3 team in the EC, you have to take notice. I’d like to give it until the trade deadline before we start to make trades. I’m not sayin’ it will be easy but I think there could be some gold in them thar hills. Fire Woodson and hire Lawrence Frank. At a minimum our defense will improve. If JR/Melo are willing to adapt their games to go to the next level, anything’s possible. Remember when Woody replaced D’Antoni?

  37. Owen

    My F******* god, Masai Ujiri is a genius, he just off-loaded RUDY GAY and his albatross of a contract and got not only Vazquez back (pretty good trade chip and guarantee if Lowry bolts) and Patrick Patterson, but also made the team worse without taking back pretty much any long term contracts

    If only Masai were our gm.

    Seriously, unloaded Bargnani and Gay within six months of arriving. Fricking genius.

    I don’t see us catching Toronto.

  38. Bruno Almeida

    If only Masai were our gm.

    Seriously, unloaded Bargnani and Gay within six months of arriving. Fricking genius.

    I don’t see us catching Toronto.

    I think that definitely proves every player in the NBA is tradeable, specially if you account for desperation moves from win-now owners, and weird perceptions around the league.

    Gay’s case is kinda similar to Melo I’d say… tall SF, above average rebounder for his position, “can create his own shot against anyone”, bad 3pt shooter, ball stopper, terrible shooting percentages (even though Gay’s numbers are even worse), not a great / not often totally engaged defender.

    of couse Melo should be more “talented”, whatever that means, but Gay takes much more criticism for being a poor shooter and pretty much no credit at all for everything else he does… and even after all the criticism, a dumb GM on “win-now mode” trades for him.

    I’d be ecstatic if we actually had Ujiri or another great GM on this team, the package we could get out of a Melo trade could be insane.

  39. hoolahoop

    can shoot threes.
    - He can drive.
    - He can run the floor.
    —————————–
    So can JR Smith.

    JR is an extremely gifted physical athlete. He’s not in the league because of his high basketball IQ.

  40. Brian Cronin

    The problem with having Masai as GM is that the other GMs know that Dolan would just interfere anyway so it doesn’t matter how good Masai is he wouldn’t be good here.

  41. Hubert

    The problem with having Masai as GM is that the other GMs know that Dolan would just interfere anyway so it doesn’t matter how good Masai is he wouldn’t be good here.

    Sigh.

  42. Bruno Almeida

    yeah, I know, it’s nothing more than a dream.

    but if even a franchise owned by Donald Sterling can become a title contender and be properly managed by professional people, who knows?

  43. Donnie Walsh

    The problem with having Masai as GM is that the other GMs know that Dolan would just interfere anyway so it doesn’t matter how good Masai is he wouldn’t be good here.

    Perhaps. Or perhaps not.

    After Dolan hired Isiah, he let him do whatever the heck he wanted, no matter how inane, or how much it cost him.

    He interfered with Walsh, but he didn’t hire Walsh. He interfered with Grunwald, but he didn’t hired Grunwald (Isiah did, but he simply matriculated up to GM without really passing Dolan’s litmus test).

    The problem with Dolan is the litmus test itself. He thinks you need to be a great player to be a great GM (or you need to be a great company man to lead the company). Part of me wouldn’t even mind having Isiah back because at least Dolan respects him enough to stay out of the way, and Isiah, for everything he’s not, is a better basketball mind than Dolan is. (If for no other reason, Isiah isn’t beholden to The Eagles and could give a shit whether there’s gonna be a heartache tonight, or tomorrow, or whenever)

  44. ephus

    I actually like the trade for Sacramento. Gay has one year (plus a player option) left. Chuck Hayes will be overpaid for longer.

    Boogie Collins is ready to shine, but he is on the verge if killing his untalented teammates. Either Gay and Collins click, or Gay opts out after this year. Because Gay will not stick around an angry Collins to collect a check.

  45. Brian Cronin

    $19 million dollars is still $19 million dollars, though. I think he can put up with Cousins for that much bank.

  46. max fisher-cohen

    @Donnie Walsh

    I think you’re overrating Isiah’s level of independence:

    Eddy Curry -> CAA
    Renaldo Balkman -> CAA (picked one pick before Rondo too)
    Mardy Collins -> CAA

    I also think in terms of NY’s strategy — build up just enough assets to acquire a guy who some people might call a star and then make the move, regardless of fit or age or health or alternative viewpoints of the so-called star’s talent — Isiah did exactly what Layden did.

    Layden’s major moves were

    $100m contract extension for aging Allan Houston
    Glenn Rice’s (2 yrs and $18m left on his contract) for Shandon Anderson (4 yrs and $25m contract) and Howard Eisley (3 yrs and $16m left on his contract)
    Nene and Camby for McDyess
    Sprewell for Van Horn

    Give him credit for the last move. As much as we all loved Sprewell, he was 32 and in decline, but all the other moves smell just like the moves Isiah made.

    What’s the common thread here? James L. Dolan.

  47. Brian Cronin

    Gay will find someone to pay him 4/40.

    Absolutely. Likely more than that. But he’ll be able to get that offer just as well after first making half that in a single season next year, ya know? He’ll get paid, but he won’t get close to $19 million a year on the open market.So his best financial interest by far is to opt in, get his huge payday and then get a more reasonable free agent payday (likely something like 4/$50, maybe 4/$60 from a moron owner).

  48. Brian Cronin

    Sprewell for Van Horn was a canny move, so of course Isiah then dumped Van Horn as soon as possible for the “more athletic” Tim Thomas. To be fair, though, he also got Nazr Mohammed, who he was later able to deal for the first round pick that turned into David Lee (am I misremembering that? Was it the Jalen Rose deal that got the David Lee pick?).

  49. max fisher-cohen

    It was TWO first round picks for Mohammed, but the knicks also had to take on Malik Rose’s bad contract. It’s the exact sort of deal Darryl Morey was making for the few years before the Harden trade — taking on other people’s crap for your decent role player in exchange for a fee of a draft pick or two. He did it like 6 or 7 times with the Lowry trade being the ultimate shyst. If Isiah had just made 5 or 6 other trades like that, the Knicks would probably have won 60 games a few times since then.

  50. Donnie Walsh

    I think you’re overrating Isiah’s level of independence:… CAA, CAA, CAA

    CAA sports didn’t even exist before 2007. Leon Rose was a powerful agent before he joined CAA, but to associate Layden and Isiah’s poor management as cow-towing to a yet-to-exist corporation is kind of a stretch.

    Dolan got into bed with CAA in 2009. Here’s the story of CAA Sports and how it came to exist (assist courtesy of our own JD):

    http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/03/12/Labor-and-Agents/CAA.aspx

  51. Brian Cronin

    It was TWO first round picks for Mohammed, but the knicks also had to take on Malik Rose’s bad contract. It’s the exact sort of deal Darryl Morey was making for the few years before the Harden trade — taking on other people’s crap for your decent role player in exchange for a fee of a draft pick or two. He did it like 6 or 7 times with the Lowry trade being the ultimate shyst. If Isiah had just made 5 or 6 other trades like that, the Knicks would probably have won 60 games a few times since then.

    Yeah, it was definitely a good trade. Fuck, I guess I have to give credit to Isiah then for the Van Horn/Thomas deal, which I thought was pretty silly at the time (although I remember I convinced myself at the time that it made sense because of Mohammed’s inclusion).

  52. SeeWhyDee77

    LOOYER!!!
    Haha!! Dope recap! Lol hold on I’m still laughin at this one..
    Ah man I needed that one..makes me forget for a second how awful the team played yesterday. I think it’s clear that the team just wasn’t up for this one. Not to take anything away from Stevens and company..great job on him keeping his guys motivated and playing hard (feel that in your gut yet Woodson?). But this Knicks team, even without Chandler, is not 40 point loss to ‘Big 3′-less C’s. Let alone a lineup sans the only remaining member of the fabled trio, and featuring Bass/Sully/Green/Crawford. Embarrassed? Totes McGoats (lol thanx Sprint commercial!)! Worried? Not really..more like concerned but not to the level I was when EVERYTHING was goin wrong. Supremely confident in current roster? Nope. Just confident enough that this team is good enough to make its way through the Eastern Conference with Rose’s injury to get into the 2nd round again.

    PS: Woodson- don’t start TH2 again. Not when you need him to replace Kmart. That was dumb. You have MWP!! If Shump was hurt then you go ahead and start TH2. But replace Kmart with him? You just butt fumbled that decision buddy. Remember when Dolan gave Zeke an extension because the team was in contention for the playoffs at almost mid season? Yeah..that’s just what you just did. A Dolan move. Got blinded by the lights of a few good games by he rookie and said ‘he can keep the team goin!’. Not realizing that the role you already had him in was perfect for him. Looks like the players weren’t the only ones sleepwalking through Sunday’s tilt..

  53. Totes McGoats

    Jason Thompson still available. Anyone adverse to movin either JR for him or Shump and Udrih for him and a 1st? I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Especially if they wanna throw Jimmer in

    By the way…this is SeeWhyDee..jus fell in love with the thought of usin a ridiculous new alias lol

  54. salbls

    Woodson is there because he is the only coach who can work with Melo. Everyone else except Stat is there because they fit under what is left of the salary cap, determined by Melo. I did not see the game yesterday, but many of the comments above lead to my worst suspicion; Melo does not have the discipline to stop being a ball stopper for more than two days. Everything this team does, good or bad, flows from him, and at his age he is STILL capable of playing the team game two out of twenty nights. He went from looking like Larry Bird, to, apparently, looking like Melo in the space of two days. He wants to be the man? He is the man. But he isn’t a top 10 player and he never will be. Who would want to coach him besides a guy who is a believer in iso play and walking the ball up the court? Jeez, at least let someone run (remember Lin?). Schumpert does, and when he crosses mid court there is no Knick within 20 feet. They are just awful to watch.

  55. ephus

    My guess (based upon no knowledge or even reading any articles) is that Sacramento is betting that if the Gay/Cousins pairing goes badly, Gay will opt-out even if he cannot come close to matching has salary next season. And if Gay opts-out, Sacramento wins this trade. Likewise, if Gay recovers his 2010-12 form, he brings a lot more to the table than the pieces that Sacramento sent out.

    I am not ready to call Masai a genius for this trade. I see it as a lateral move that allows the Raptors to get more safely below the luxury tax line this year and probably use their MLE next year.

  56. thenamestsam

    As others have said, amazing recap Jim. You writers are doing some fabulous work this season, and this is the best of the best in my opinion.

    As for the Knicks, everything has been said and repeated, but this game really tells you a lot about their mindset in my opinion. It’s a long season and every team is going to have off days, but a team that is 5-13 should be seriously feeling that sense of desperation and for them to come out as flat as they did at home, against a rival, just can’t happen. And to me that’s on the coach more than anything else. Having the team ready to play and compete day in and day out is the #1 job of the coach in my opinion, and it feels like just about every game we’re down 15 or 20 before the fans are even in their seats. Woodson called timeout after timeout yesterday and you could see him huffing and puffing, demanding a response, and the team just rolled over. He was never a good strategic or tactical coach, but the team played hard for him last year and he was clearly getting through to the players well. If he has lost that then he has lost his one good aspect as a coach. It’s time to let him go.

  57. thenamestsam

    As a Knicks fan the most notable thing about the Gay deal to me is that when you look at the chaff that Masai was willing to take back for Gay it’s more obvious than ever that we had no business giving up a 1st rounder in the Bargnani trade. Gay has a way better reputation than Bargs (not saying much) around the league even if it has faded a lot, and the fact that Masai was willing to dump him without getting anything of specific value in return just to continue clearing house makes it clear that he would have been content to move Bargnani without getting a 1st in return.

  58. flossy

    How does a player rack up a -38 in only 20 minutes of play?

    I watched almost all of that wretched game and I still have no idea how Felton managed that one.

  59. flossy

    As a Knicks fan the most notable thing about the Gay deal to me is that when you look at the chaff that Masai was willing to take back for Gay it’s more obvious than ever that we had no business giving up a 1st rounder in the Bargnani trade. Gay has a way better reputation than Bargs (not saying much) around the league even if it has faded a lot, and the fact that Masai was willing to dump him without getting anything of specific value in return just to continue clearing house makes it clear that he would have been content to move Bargnani without getting a 1st in return.

    I think you’re right, but Rudy Gay has also been just abysmal this season. Truly awful. A usage of 30% with a TS of .468 borders on team sabotage. His on/off is -8 pts/100 possessions. This trade just makes me confused about which franchise of the Kings or Raptors is trying to tank or not, and whether acquiring Rudy Gay is supposed to be a step toward respectability or insurance against playing oneself out of the high lottery.

  60. DRed

    Gay, Melo and Lebron all have about the same usage rate this season (30) and have put up a TS of .468, .525 and .683, respectively. That Lebron number is straight up preposterous. That’s Tyson Chandler territory.

  61. Owen

    Patrick Patterson isn’t terrible. I’d rather have him than Gay, although I’d rather have anyone other than Gay. Gay is worse than Bargnani I think.

    Honestly, getting out of both the Gay and Bargnani deals in your first year is a magnificent accomplishment. Getting a first rounder and a useful player back for them was Da Vinci level genius.

  62. JK47

    It’s about a quarter of the way through the season and the Knicks are 28th in the league in defensive efficiency, and are not improving whatsoever. They were at home against a Boston team that struggles to score the ball, and they gave up a 125.5 offensive rating. They just don’t get it. I agree that the talent level on this team is lacking, but there is no way that these are the best results you can get with this group of players. This team is an eyesore on the court– they play dumb, but even worse they play soft.

    Woodson’s whole approach to the game of basketball is completely wrongheaded; he’s like a Dusty Baker type who believes in hoary sports cliches over common sense. “Those lineup stats are up in the air” is right up there with “I don’t want the bases clogged” when it comes to willful ignorance. If the team is going to lose, I’d at least rather see them lose with a coach who will at least park guys on the bench for playing execrable defense and shooting contested fall-away 20 footers with 16 seconds left on the clock. The Knicks are going to be a laughingstock as long as Woodson is at the helm. He has no answers.

  63. KnickfaninNJ

    I honestly think that if Isiah hadn’t gotten the Knicks so embarrassingly sued he would be considered an ordinary Knick GM (where ordinary for the Knicks is bad enough not to make the playoffs). All the players he inherited were bad enough that they were out of the league a year or two later, while most of the players he acquired are still playing productively. His teams didn’t seem to play productively as a team, but that is nothing new for the Knicks. Of course, James and Curry were notable disasters, but other GMs have disasters too

  64. Hubert

    It’s not a brilliant trade but it’s a nice one, and slightly more than lateral, in my opinion. He can do something with the pieces he got back. John Salmons could be a nice trade piece with his unguaranteed salary next year. And he’ll probably figure out a way to steal Shumpert from us at an incredibly low price (if Morey doesn’t beat him to it).

  65. thenamestsam

    I think you’re right, but Rudy Gay has also been just abysmal this season. Truly awful. A usage of 30% with a TS of .468 borders on team sabotage. His on/off is -8 pts/100 possessions. This trade just makes me confused about which franchise of the Kings or Raptors is trying to tank or not, and whether acquiring Rudy Gay is supposed to be a step toward respectability or insurance against playing oneself out of the high lottery.

    Oh, no disagreement here. He’s terrible and seems to be getting worse every day. But I still think his reputation around the league is better than Bargnani’s. I might be wrong about that – it definitely seems like his value has fallen a lot since Memphis traded him and was better without him.

    And I agree 100% that parsing the goals of these teams is tricky here because Gay is the big name, but I also have little doubt (and I’m sure at least some NBA execs share this viewpoint) that he makes the team worse every minute he’s on the floor. Masai I think just wants a clean slate. He’s just trying to erase Colangelo’s mistakes before he tries to figure out what kind of team he wants to put together. Who really knows what the Kings are about. I have a feeling that they view this move as one which can help them potentially get in contention for the 8th spot (which would make them sorely, sorely mistaken). If they did it in an effort to help their tanking then the fact that they’re moving Isiah Thomas into the starting lineup (where he deserves to be) may offset a lot of the gains (in terms of tanking) that they’ll see from having Gay. Feels like a pretty rudderless move from them.

  66. er

    Haha predicable but over the top melo backlash from this game. He drove all game, so we cant say he was settling. Celtics players shot lights out from three. No one on the Knicks could score except Melo MWP and Amare. Easy recipe for getting stomped. The reason everyone else doubles melo is because they dont have brandon bass. Perfect size and speed.

    The ball stopping wasnt even done the most by melo it was by felton and smith mostly. The game got off to a poor start because bargnani was like 0-8 to start. I think this was a blip. We will see in Cleveland. It was one bad game where the Cs got rolling and the Knicks couldnt hit a shot. Predictable reaction here tho.

  67. er

    JR 1-5 Booo Melo You suck
    Ray – 0-6 Booo Melo You suck
    Shump- 0-6 Booo Melo You suck
    Barg- 1-7 Booo Melo You suck

    Melo 5-15 Who let this fucking jerk off shoot?!?!

  68. Hubert

    The Knicks are going to be a laughingstock as long as Woodson is at the helm. He has no answers.

    He doesn’t even know the questions.

    Frankly I thought his mismanagement of the Pacers series was a fireable offense. Despite what’s happened to the two teams since, that was a series we should have won and I think we would have with a competent coach. Benching Pablo, underutilizing Copeland, trying to force Amar’e into the lineup, going to (and staying with) Martin-Chandler lineups, sticking with JR over Shumpert in game 6…those are the marks of an idiot. I didn’t advocate firing him after the season because I think people should have a chance to learn from their mistakes.

    But I think it’s clear now he lacks the ability to identify the areas that need fixing.

    And in an age where every coach in the league is hyper-informed, he is by far the least informed coach in the league. He is a caveman among scientists. The Dusty Baker analogy above was perfect.

    You can blame the players all you want, but I think it’s clear that a) they know they’re fucked with this guy, so they’re giving less effort, and b) the main culprits (Melo, Felton, JR) have NO FEAR of EVER being held accountable, so they’re giving less effort, too. That’s how debacles like yesterday happen and are likely to continue as long as this “couch” is in charge.

  69. ephus

    Well, Zach Lowe hates this trade for the Kings and really likes it for the Raptors. If I had to choose one person to evaluate an NBA trade, Zach Lowe would be in my top ten and I would not be in my top 500. So, I would go with his assessment.

    The one place that we agree is that this trade gets much better for the Kings if Gay opts out of the last year of his contract. I think an unhappy Cousins would be an enormous impetus for Gay to opt out. On the other hand, Lowe thinks that Gay could only command 3/25 on the open market right now. If Gay recovers to the point where he could get 4/40, I see him walking away from Sacramento after this year.

  70. Hubert

    I think this was a blip.

    It’s the 4th time we’ve had the shit beat out of us at home. 3 of the 4 featured the same theme:

    Outscored 40-19 in the 1Q by Minnesota
    Outscored 35-17 in the 1Q by San Antonio
    Outscored 34-11 in 1Q by Boston

    The other was a 20 point home loss to Atlanta that was just a steady beatdown.

    You think this was a blip? The wins are the blips. This is the trend.

  71. Hubert

    From the Zach Lowe article Ephus quoted:

    “They went to every team that made at least some theoretical sense: Detroit, with expiring contracts and at least some need on the wing; Milwaukee, with fading postseason ambitions and a massive hole at small forward the Greek Freak isn’t quite ready to fill; Cleveland, with a playoff mandate, a GM on shaky ground, and perhaps the worst group of starting wing players in the league; and many others.”

    Thank GOD we have no expiring contracts or I think we would have traded Shump plus expirings for Rudy Gay. I really do. It would have been Marbury-Francis all over again.

    Tell me you can’t imagine Knicks’ brass talking themselves into how difficult it would be to matchup with Melo and Gay.

    Next year is a dangerous year for us with all those expiring contracts. So many bad trades to be made.

  72. er

    It’s the 4th time we’ve had the shit beat out of us at home. 3 of the 4 featured the same theme:

    Outscored 40-19 in the 1Q by Minnesota
    Outscored 35-17 in the 1Q by San Antonio
    Outscored 34-11 in 1Q by Boston

    The other was a 20 point home loss to Atlanta that was just a steady beatdown.

    You think this was a blip? The wins are the blips. This is the trend.

    2 of those losses were sunday noon games which i hate SAS is way better than the knicks. Minny was the first game without Chandler i believe and yes Atl was a steady beating. Even so the Knicks have started to play better. Yes i think they will continue to win. Yesterdays game changed when Amare missed the 2 freethrows when they cut lead to 17. Momentum swung right back to Boston. Lets just see what happens in cleveland.

  73. JK47

    Next year is a dangerous year for us with all those expiring contracts. So many bad trades to be made.

    I think Derrick Rose, with his zero functioning knees and guaranteed max contract through 2017, is just about guaranteed to be a Knick in the near future.

  74. Hubert

    Yesterdays game changed when Amare missed the 2 freethrows when they cut lead to 17.

    God bless you, er. You and Shump and Ray are on the same page, I guess.

    I stand in violent opposition to your belief, but I don’t want to take it away from you. In fact, I wish I could feel the same way.

    I live in a black hole of despair right now with regards to this team. Like Brian Koppelman: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/85051/the-knicks-suck .

    On the bright side, it really is bringing the best out of the KB bloggers.

  75. ephus

    Yesterdays game changed when Amare missed the 2 freethrows when they cut lead to 17.

    I would say “All hope was lost when Amar’e missed . . .” If Amar’e had made those two free throws, the Knicks might have made a game of it. It was far from a certainty. After he missed them and Boston went on another run, it seemed as if the game was over. That is a horrible predicament in the second quarter.

  76. er

    Lol Hubert i never claim to be rational. I try but i guess i always hope for the best. Last 3 games were odd though we arent that good and not that bad

  77. Mike Kurylo

    Wait this score must be wrong? Didn’t they air an old Knicks-Celtics game on Sunday?

    Surely this was not the team that I read about in the comments of the Nets/Magic games. That Knick team was on the upswing, certainly not the same I witnessed on the Lord’s day! Remember the Nets weren’t the league’s laughable losers, they were merely unlucky, which was porven by their previous victory against the Grizzles. Woodson had figured out the solution to the Bargnani dilemma as witnessed by a statistical uptrend.

    Going into Sunday I planned to watch the Knicks game, then tape the Jets game, and I didn’t want to drink through both. Luckily the first few moments of the Knicks game made the decision easy – save my brew for kickoff. In the end, the beer I bought was disappointing too, making the Jets the only thing that was worthwhile for my Sunday plans. Who woulda knew?

  78. Nick C.

    The Jets game sorta proved teammates matter, at least a little. Give Gino Smith NFL receivers, Kerley and Holmes, and he looks competent.

  79. mokers

    er,

    I try to stay in the optimism camp as well, but yesterday was terrible. This is a game where a team that has it together is going to get up for. You are coming off two games were you were offensively dominant, playing your biggest rival in the division with a chance to stake a claim that you are somebody to contend with once your best player gets back.

    This was not a team that was missing open shots, but were working hard otherwise. The team played terribly and there were only a few people who seemed to care at all about whether they were going to win the game or not.

  80. er

    I agree. But when Jordan Crawford is thowing up contested threes with 18 on the shot clock. What can you do? Things just snowballed. It happens. Bargs was getting open jumpers all first quarter and made 0. Celtics hit every open 3. Shit happens sometimes in basketball. Lets see what happens tomorrow

  81. Hubert

    Going into Sunday I planned to watch the Knicks game, then tape the Jets game, and I didn’t want to drink through both.

    On a separate note, is this the worst year of NY sports in our lifetimes? I’m 36, and I’m a Knicks-Rangers-Yankees-Giants guy, and the latter two mean I have no right to complain to my Mets-Jets compatriots. But Jesus, it’s fucking bleak. Yesterday the “my teams” screen of my scorecenter showed Celtics-114, Knicks-73; Capitals-4, Rangers-1; Chargers over Giants by whatever the hell they won by; and a stale story about Robbie Cano joining the Mariners.

    Re: my non-teams: the Nets are more of a joke than the Knicks, the Jets are at least feisty but they’re not good, the Devils and Islanders are irrelevant, and I don’t even bring up baseball to my Met fan friends because I feel like I’m kicking a dog.

    I think the best team in NY is either a middling Rangers team that has yet to develop its identity but still has a puncher’s chance because of Lundqvist or a decidedly mediocre Yankees team that has 0% chance of winning a World Series.

    Trying to think of another year that was ever this bleak. 1991 springs to mind (Giants and Jets were 8-8, Knicks and Rangers were first round playoff fodder, Mets & Yankees won 77 & 71 games, respectively). So unless you’re old enough to remember ’91, I think this is as bad as it’s ever been across the board.

  82. flossy

    I agree. But when Jordan Crawford is thowing up contested threes with 18 on the shot clock. What can you do? Things just snowballed. It happens. Bargs was getting open jumpers all first quarter and made 0. Celtics hit every open 3. Shit happens sometimes in basketball. Lets see what happens tomorrow

    Give me a break, Jordan Crawford had nothing to do with it. He could have stayed home and the Celtics would have won in a rout.

  83. DRed

    Remember the Nets weren’t the league’s laughable losers, they were merely unlucky, which was porven by their previous victory against the Grizzles. Woodson had figured out the solution to the Bargnani dilemma as witnessed by a statistical uptrend.

    Surface level analysis, bruh. At a granular level, this team stinks in a way few other teams in the league can match up with. We overpay at an elite rate, when you consider the interaction effects our team defense is even worse than the sum of the individual parts, and our world class lineup inconsistency creates a gestalt of stupidity when paired with our adherence to coaching conventional wisdom (which doesn’t show up in your precious box scores).

  84. knickster

    But when Jordan Crawford is thowing up contested threes with 18 on the shot clock. What can you do? Things just snowballed. It happens. Bargs was getting open jumpers all first quarter and made 0. Celtics hit every open 3. Shit happens sometimes in basketball. Lets see what happens tomorrow

    Saying that “shit happens sometimes in basketball” implies the record is 14-5, not 5-14…

  85. Mike Kurylo

    which doesn’t show up in your precious box scores

    I always assume the “DNP-CD” next to Cole Aldrich’s name stands for “Did Not Play – Coach Dumb.”

  86. hoolahoop

    “shit happens sometimes in basketball”, but it feels like a shit storm every night in MSG.
    “shit happens sometimes in basketball”, but knicks fans are tired of eating shit.
    “shit happens sometimes in basketball”, but the knicks are out of toilet paper.

  87. er

    Yes Flossy a guard who hit 6 of 10 threes when our starting guards combined for 0-12 from the field had nothing to do with the outcome. Sound analysis

  88. Mike Kurylo

    The Jets game sorta proved teammates matter, at least a little. Give Gino Smith NFL receivers, Kerley and Holmes, and he looks competent.

    I hate to say it, but for about 5 years now, the Jets QB should get no credit for the win. Geno played a decent game, but the Jets defense is what wins the games. Yesterday I rank the order of what made the Jets win as Defense – long separator – offensive line – running game – wide receivers – gatorade guy – Geno Smith. Geno Smith can only lose the game for the Jets – when he gives the ball away multiple times and at times. He’s like the JR Smith of the Jets.

  89. er

    Saying that “shit happens sometimes in basketball” implies the record is 14-5, not 5-14…

    Yes in one fucking game anything can happen. The 1996 72-10 Bulls lost to the second year Raptors. Fuck

  90. Hubert

    Yes in one fucking game anything can happen. The 1996 72-10 Bulls lost to the second year Raptors. Fuck

    Come on. You’re taking your optimism to some crazy place now. The Knicks did not have one fluky bad game. The fluky & unsustainable performances were against Brooklyn & Orlando, and the first half of the opener against Milwaukee.

  91. hoolahoop

    As an optimist, but realist, I’m forced to enjoy things other winning.
    i.e. I love when the camera pans to Woodson and he’s staring into space with his mouth open and a clueless, bewildered look on his face. It’s laugh out loud comical. I get giddy every time I see it.

    Also, it was fun yesterday rooting for the knicks to go down 50. Almost made it.

  92. er

    The Knicks played a bad game. It happens THATS MY POINT. They played two perfect games before. Lets see what happens in the next game is all im saying. Everyone played like shit collectively while the Celtics hit everything. All i was saying is that lets see how they rebound and see if they can regain the flair from the last two games.

  93. er

    Come on. You’re taking your optimism to some crazy place now. The Knicks did not have one fluky bad game. The fluky & unsustainable performances were against Brooklyn & Orlando, and the first half of the opener against Milwaukee.

    Its hard to lose by 40. Thats called a fluke. Winning by 40 is a fluke too. No one said championship after TWO of the wins but sky is falling after 1 loss. Fine ill just keep it to myself. Carry on

  94. d-mar

    Well, if the Knicks somehow manage to get their shit together and win their next 3 against Cleveland, Chicago and Boston, I think we’d all have to agree that Sunday was an aberration.

    Not to say I’m overly optimistic that will happen, but they are all night games and I’m assuming we won’t see orange unis on Wednesday.

  95. knickster

    Yes in one fucking game anything can happen. The 1996 72-10 Bulls lost to the second year Raptors. Fuck

    Do you think the 1996 Bulls would have a 5-14 record against the Raptors if they played 19 times?
    Feel free to curse…

  96. Hubert

    All i was saying is that lets see how they rebound and see if they can regain the flair from the last two games.

    If anything was a blip…

    I say lose more games by 40. The sooner we get the coach out of here the sooner we can begin fixing this team’s problems.

    With a competent coach, we can win this shitty division and maybe even make the second round in the awful east.

    With this guy, we’re going to be forking over a top 10 pick to Denver.

  97. flossy

    Yes Flossy a guard who hit 6 of 10 threes when our starting guards combined for 0-12 from the field had nothing to do with the outcome. Sound analysis

    We lost by FORTY ONE POINTS. Crawford would have had to go 6/10 from three shooting at his OWN basket to make an actual difference. Do you understand that?

  98. Robtachi

    I’ve gotta say, I think it’d be really neat for basketball – and a HUGE boost for a franchise that desperately needs one – if the Raptors nabbed Andrew Wiggins.

  99. Hubert

    A friend of mine just hit me over the head with the obvious truth:

    That firing woodson would merely pave the way for CAA mega client John Calipari (aka Anthony from Hoboken).

    Fuck us all.

  100. flossy

    Its hard to lose by 40. Thats called a fluke. Winning by 40 is a fluke too. No one said championship after TWO of the wins but sky is falling after 1 loss. Fine ill just keep it to myself. Carry on

    You know we’ve played more than 3 games this season, right? The loss carries more weight than the wins because it was a spectacular return to all of the bad coaching, bad execution, bad defense, no passing, idiot ball that has characterized our 5-14 season so far.

    The Knicks shot 6-16 from 3 last yesterday, which is 37.5%. Hardly terrible. What IS terrible is that they could have hit ALL of their threes and STILL lost by 9!

  101. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

    The Knicks played a bad game. It happens.

    Uhm, you do know the Knicks are in last place, in an epically terrible division, in a horrible conference. They are losing to teams that are trying to lose on purpose. It’s that bad.

    To paraphrase Ephus, this is a shitty freakin time to be a Knick fan.

  102. er

    We lost by FORTY ONE POINTS. Crawford would have had to go 6/10 from three shooting at his OWN basket to make an actual difference. Do you understand that?

    I never said the ONLY reason. But you in your sound analysis said it didnt matter. When one man outscores 4 of your starters put together by 13 thats a problem So whatever. Like i said carry on

  103. flossy

    Not to say I’m overly optimistic that will happen, but they are all night games and I’m assuming we won’t see orange unis on Wednesday.

    The one piece of good news is that the Knicks have already hit their league-mandated minimum number of times they have to wear the Orange Jerseys of Doom. So it’s conceivable that we might never see them again, outside of our nightmares.

    The bad news is that Dolan can elect to have the team wear them up to 18 times in one season, so we could have as many as 12 more orange-hued snuff films to endure.

  104. er

    You know we’ve played more than 3 games this season, right? The loss carries more weight than the wins because it was a spectacular return to all of the bad coaching, bad execution, bad defense, no passing, idiot ball that has characterized our 5-14 season so far.

    No it carries more weight because you want it to. 2 is more than 1

  105. flossy

    I never said the ONLY reason. But you in your sound analysis said it didnt matter. When one man outscores 4 of your starters put together by 13 thats a problem So whatever. Like i said carry on

    Yeah, it didn’t matter. If Jordan Crawford hadn’t hit those threes, someone else would have. If he had slept in and missed the team flight, it wouldn’t have mattered. You can’t say “When Jordan Crawford is throwing up contested 3s, what can you do?” That makes it sound like one hot hand is what doomed what might have otherwise been a win. No. Crawford had fuck-all to do with it. We’d have gone down no matter what he did. His 3 point barrage was just the sour cherry on top of a shit sundae.

  106. bobneptune

    @116:

    The sky has already fallen if you haven’t noticed :-)

    And that’s not to say it is unpossible for them to get it a little bit together and even win their division, but that just masks the underlying problem this squad is so full of fail and has no possible way to get better through the avarice of Melo and Dolan.

  107. Kahnzy

    I just keep reminding myself that I’m only in my late 20′s. Dolan is bound to die while I’m still young enough to remember what a Knick is.

  108. ephus

    % blame for Sunday’s loss:

    Shumpert/Smith – 14%
    Orange uniforms – 11.25%
    Felton – 9.75 %
    Melo – 8%
    Bargnani’s razor – 7.5%
    Kemba Walker’s stumbling & bumbling – 7.5%
    Herb Williams & other coaches & other couches – 7%
    Cavan’s prediction jinx – 6%
    Noon start – 5%
    Jordan Crawford’s hot shooting – 4.5%
    The Ewing Trade – 4%
    Isiah Thomas – 4%
    Bill DeBlasio’s Sandanista summer – 3.5%
    Amar’e on defense – 3%
    Mike Breen – 3%
    Tim Hardaway Sr. – 1%
    Prigioni – .66%
    MWP – .34%

  109. Owen

    “But this has become untenable. It feels permanent, unchangeable, sickening. And there’s not a damn thing anyone but James Dolan’s father can do about it.”

    “I guess I have to accept it somehow. The Knicks suck. As it ever has been. As it ever will be. I can’t escape it. I can’t change it. I just have to live it.”

    Why do I feel like Brian Koppelman is lurking/posting here…..

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