Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, December 21, 2014

Celtics 105, Knicks 101

Tonight New York went into Boston hoping to keep their 2011 season on an upbeat. Unfortunately they came up short against the Celtics, losing 105-101. Although Boston held the lead for most of the game, New York kept it close and occasionally took a lead here & there. In fact New York missed a great opportunity with 31 seconds left in the game. Toney Douglas stole the ball from Ray Allen, but Wilson Chandler missed a three pointer to bring New York within 1 point. After a pair of Paul Pierce free throws, Stoudemire made a three pointer (his second of the game) to slim the lead to 103-101. But another pair of Pierce free throws and a final attempt by Amar’e was blocked, giving Boston the victory.

Some notes:
Amar’e Stoudemire provided efficient scoring with 27 points on 17 shots. He had a pair of blocked shots, but one of his defensive lapses hurt the team. It was on a switch, and I’m not exactly sure what happened there, but he seemed upset that Toney Douglas went over a pick. Amar’e was clapping his hands, and left his man open for an easy basket. Otherwise I thought he played well enough defensively.

Toney Douglas chipped in with 12 points on 8 shots, but he had a head scratching moment near the end of the first half. Douglas forced an ill advised shot on a broken play, even though there were 11 seconds left on the shot clock. On the next possession he threw a cross court pass out of bounds. I’m not Paul Ekman, but D’Antoni’s facial expression wasn’t “happy” at those plays.

Danilo Gallinari continued his regressive play. He was 0-6, including 0-3 from behind the arc, and ended with 2 points in 11 minutes. He hasn’t looked good since last year. This is very concerning considering this is the year he’s supposed to make forward strides. I’d like to hear a reason why he isn’t playing well, that doesn’t include the phrase “sophomore slump.” (Yes I know technically it’s his third season…)

Wilson Chandler contributed 19 points on 20 shots, but more importantly played 33 minutes, much of it at SF instead of Gallo. Chandler was active defensively, and led the team with 4 blocked shots. Unfortunately his three point shooting, especially that attempt in the last minute, hurt the team tonight. He was 1-7 from downtown, which has me wondering if he’ll ever improve in this area. (Yeah I know it’s only game 2, but don’t forget his history.)

Roger Mason took one shot, and it was an awfully forced attempt in a fast break, which he missed. I want this guy to light it up from three, because well that’s his strength. I don’t see him getting minutes once Azubuike returns, unless he goes NBA Jam from three.

Finally Landry Fields is such a joy to watch. He’s active at all times. You’ll see him cutting to the hoop without the ball, being active on the boards, helping out on defense – everything that would take a superior athlete and make him a next level player. Fields led the team with 10 boards, and only had 11 points on 10 shots. But he didn’t have a single turnover, and dished out 4 assists. He’s a keeper.

160 comments on “Celtics 105, Knicks 101

  1. crazchino

    3 points:
    -can the knicks stop taking bad 3’s?
    -anyone else concerned that felton and stat dont look like they’re meshing?
    -is gallo injured? or should we be worried he’s regressing.

  2. Robert Silverman

    It truly is a joy watching Fields play. He’s so smart, I can’t think of a Knick in the last 20 years he reminds me of.

    Actually, I can. Though I’ve only seen grainy clips, the closest comparable I can think of is Bill Bradley

  3. nicos

    Nice breakdown Mike. Much better game for Amare- unlike Toronto the Celtics weren’t running a second guy at him every time he touched it and when they did he made good decisions with the ball. I do wish he’d box out every once in a while- I think he’d be at 10+rpg pretty easily if he did.

    The Knicks defensive effort level is so much higher than last year- they really work hard. Unfortunately, the Celtics move the ball in & out as well as anybody and generally were able to get good shots inside when they were patient enough. There were several plays like the Amare switch (or non-switch) Mike mentioned. Sometimes it seems guys aren’t on the same page when it comes to making the switch on screens- sometimes guys are jumping really early as if to set up a trap that never comes. It seems like Felton and TD want to fight over the screen but the bigs are switching so early that there’s a scramble to get back into position. I’m hoping that stuff will get worked out as guys get used to one another because this team actually has a chance to be pretty good defensively.

    If you told me that the C’s would get pretty good games from all of their starters except RA and a very good game off of the bench from Big Baby I’d have figured the Knicks would have lost by 20- the fact that they were still right there without anyone having a really great game- on the road no less- is pretty encouraging.

  4. ackerbocker

    Crazchino: The answer to your question about Gallo is yes, Gallo’s injured. He’s got something wrong with inflammation in his wrist. IMO he should sit out a couple of games. Wilson’s playing well enough to take his spot and he wouldn’t be missed. NY Post link: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/knicks_gallinari_has_pain_in_shooting_nt9hUXWW2xrvN8SzCPpEMO
    I was really encouraged by Landry Fields tonight, he was energetic and hustled. On the opposite end of the spectrum, can anyone tell me why Mason still gets rotation minutes? I’m perplexed.

  5. dwtdd

    A lot of things to like in this game, but the interior defense… yikes. The blocked shots were nice, but the box score says we got 2 rebounds in 39 minutes from our centers Moz + Turiaf — that has to be some kind of league record. On top of that, our bigs got caught fronting KG and Big Baby several times for easy lobs — I guess we’re just hoping that eastern conference point guards other than Rondo won’t be able to make that pass?

  6. ASyrett19

    Amar’e is really tough to stop when he gets the ball in the right place. That dunk on KG was nasty. Any particular reason why they haven’t been running any pick and roll for the big guy? That was his bread and butter in Phoenix and should be a way to get some easy buckets for the Knicks.

  7. DS

    @3 Fields is not a power forward but his smarts and grit remind me of David Lee as a rookie. Plus both were drafted in the 30 – 40 range, played well at big programs for several years, deserved to start as rookies.

    Amar’e had an OK line last night but the team needs to get him closer to the hoop like they did in pre-season. I guess it’s not that easy against Boston, but I feel he should have dominated Toronto.

    I’ll say it again, Turiaf always sports a bad ass +/-. He led the team again last night w/ +10.

  8. SeeWhyDee77

    Begrudgingly, u gotta give it to the C’s, they played a good game-mainly because Rondo is incredible. DAMN YOU ISAIAH!!!!! Once our Knicks finally gel, we’re gonna be better than I expected. I’m very encouraged by last night’s game…

  9. marxster

    I agree that it’s a bit concerning that Felton and Amare don’t do any pick n’ rolls.

    I’m also getting real close to give up on Gallo. Let’s not forget that he kept disappearing like this for weeks last year as well. I’m now solidly in the “trade for Melo” camp.

    A while ago I said on this forum that we managed to get Amare at his prime. If we waste away precious years waiting for Gallo to show up and Randolph to develop, we may not get the max out of Amare.

    Also, I don’t believe that struggling youngsters make it appealing for a Chris Paul or Deron Williams to consider us. So, holding on the Randolp and Gallo just because there may be potential, isn’t, in my opinion a good idea. Melo is proven to be an asset. Yes, his defense isn’t all that great, but I’m not seeing much of that in Gallo either.

    Finally, give me a break with this “Gallo is hurt” bs. If Kobe can play with a broken finger and on one leg, then Gallo can play with a bit of inflammation.

  10. marxster

    Hmm, I asked Alan Hahn via twitter what he thinks about the lack of pick n’ rolls. Here’s what he said:

    “It’s not there. Defense clogging middle.”

    That may have been the case on some occasions, but there were a couple of good opportunities for it. Hmm…maybe we’ll get to see some as they get to know each other better.

  11. Z-man

    @3 I saw lots of Bill Bradley, not a bad comparison except Bradley was a better shooter. Gotta like Fields.

    Tonight’s game should be very telling. So far, we won a road game we should have won and lost a road game we should have lost. This is a home game against a good team on the tail end of a back-to-back after a grueling road loss. I’ll be there, can’t wait to see what kind of energy the Garden has…opening night, Saturday night, Amar’e’s debut, beginning of a new era, etc.

  12. Thomas B.

    No moral victories in this game but I feel good about what I’m seeing here. So far the team beat a bad team on the road and played well against a good team on the road. That is how most playoff teams perform.

    A rookie second round pick gets a double double in his second game. Nice find Donnie Walsh. Also worth noting that Fields played 30 plus minutes in 2 games without a turnover in either game. He is just a smart active player. He made a flash to the basket following a double team of Amare that gave him an easy hoop. That is just smart reading of the defense. He also held his own against Ray Allen. Overall, very nice player. Oh and Dave Berri likes him so he must be great! ;-)

    So when Randolph gets his ankle better, will he get more minutes if Gallinari needs to rest that wrist? Randolph wont shoot any worse than Gallinari is right now, and he might get a few more rebounds, play better defense.

    I watched the CSN broadcast (just awful). The color guy said of Chandler: “You gotta watch ‘dis guy ’cause he can rehlay light it up from three.” I’m thinking, “Do you bastards do any research coming in to these games?” That was an awful technical foul call they gave to Chandler. They never seem to call that on Paul Pierce when he lays on the floor for 45 seconds after he doesnt get a call.That isnt showing up the ref?

    I thought Felton played okay. Douglas always bookends good play with bad decisions, which makes him look not as good as he really is.

    In closing, if this is the best Roger Mason is going to give, then we might as well let Rautins and Williams play. Too bad we signed him, absent Mason we could have kept PEJ.

  13. d-mar

    You know, I remember on draft night there was lots of howling and suicidal threats when the Knicks announced Fields as their 2nd round pick. My feeling at the time was “in Donnie I trust” – let’s see the kid play before we crucify our GM. I really do believe that Walsh will make the right decisions, will NEVER make a panic move and equally as important, commands major respect from other GM’s in the league. So I think it’s always best to reserve judgment when he makes a move, because unlike his predecessor, he’s got a plan.

    (Just to pre-empt, I know someone may bring up the Hill over Jennings pick, and I would agree that was a mistake, although I’m still not sold on Jennings as the superstar he’s been anointed.)

  14. cgreene

    Jennings TS% is .423 right now.
    Felton is the better player for the next 2 years.

    Big game tonight! I like the fact that Amare will be very familiar with this Portland team after beating them in 1st Rd last year. He will be confident against them.

  15. Z-man

    Totally agree, d-mar. If one out of 3 second rounders pans out, that’s good enough for me. To get a guy that might have gone undrafted who turns out to be capable of starting immediately at a skill position is pure genius.

    Re: Jennings vs. Hill, not sure who will be the better player in the long haul; probably Jennings, but not a terrible pick. Hill can play and will be good.

    Fields just seems like a really smart, poised guy who happens to be a good athlete. You might say he thought his way into being an NBA starter. That he hasn’t come close to embarrassing himself, especially vs. the Celts, and in pretty big minutes, is pretty amazing.

  16. xduckshoex

    I really liked the little bit of this game that I caught. It was nice to know that the defense we saw in the Raptors game was not just a case of them playing a bad offensive team and looking great as a result, it seems we can expect to see that kind of defense played all season long. I can’t wait to see how it looks after Randolph gets back.

    There are reports that Andre Iguodala wants out of Philly. If the Knicks have to make a move now instead of waiting to make a run at Paul I’d rather have him. I think he compliments the current team better with his slashing and passing, his defense is better than Melo’s and he’ll come cheaper as well.

  17. danvt

    “They’re much, much better,” Celtics Coach Doc Rivers said. “Adding Stoudemire gives them a closer. And I’ve always thought last year they were in a lot of close games and just couldn’t close them. Now they’ve added a guy that can close them for them.”

    Relevant to the crunch time discussions on earlier threads. Doc may just be being a statesman though.

    “Jennings TS% is .423 right now.”

    I was really mad when Jennings got off to the strong start last year, but now I’m seeing that you can probably get that kind of value anywhere in the first or second round if you’re smart, or sneak in some illegal workouts in Atlanta. Chandler, Douglas, Fields… they’re all probably as good as Jennings.

  18. danvt

    I like Wilson Chandler, but I agree that he shouldn’t take three’s. Is he one of those players who “seem good” but actually hurt more than they help, ala, Jamal Crawford? Should we flip him for a more efficient player?

    Landry Fields seems like another David Lee. So nice to see someone who doesn’t force things. Why don’t more guys play like this?

    Does anyone else think that maybe we should have given Lee the money that we are itching to give to Melo? I don’t see why a Lee-Stat
    pairing wouldn’t have worked.

    Enlighten me please, my KB gurus!

    Robert Silverman, I gave you your props in that last thread. That was an unfortunate omission. I love reading your posts.

  19. ess-dog

    To be fair, Boston defends the three ball probably better than any team in the league. Almost all of our shots were contested including threes. Pretty much everyone shoots poorly against the Celts.
    We played well though. We tied them for points in the 2nd half. Color me impressed.
    Gallo and Timo seriously need to wake up. We’re not running a charity organization for tall white dudes with bad haircuts. Portland will be another big test for those guys. Batum should give Gallo fits and Camby is a tough assignment for any center. And don’t become enamored w/ Turiaf – he had exactly zero rebounds.
    Felton, Chandler, Amare, TD and Fields are all playing sound ball.
    But again, despite our euros not showing up, we played really well on the road against a top 5 NBA team, and we were in it until the very end. Gotta feel ok about that.

  20. adrenaline98

    Few things that I am starting to notice, that are probably irrelevant, but fun things. :)

    1. I think I like Landry Fields a ton because he hustles like Starks, but also, because his facial expressions remind me of him. The way he breathes heavily, is just like how Starks used to at the line.

    2. I liked Felton’s attitude once he got elbowed by Shaq in the face. I think he needs to play with that more aggressive style and bounce to his step.

    A Lee-Stat pairing wouldn’t have worked. You’d end up with rebounding and no interior defense. What we almost need is Mosgov to actually stay on the floor to see if the Knicks’ rebounding woes improve. It’s hard to write him off as at least a DECENT rebounder when he can’t play for more than 2-3 minutes at a stretch. He is much more active defensively too. We need a center that can run and play defense/grab rebounds. Randolph fits the mold but isn’t strong enough yet. Mosgov has all the tools and no experience yet. I think I am content until at least giving them 20 games to develop.

    I’d like to see Randolph look like he knows what’s going on out there, and can contribute on most plays, whether defensively, finishing offensively, or grabbing a rebound. He has the ability to get himself in a lot of plays. I wish he had fields’ motor.

    I’d like to see Mosgov just learn to keep his hands to himself. His reach-in fouls are getting ridiculous.

    Honestly, playoffs mean absolutely nothing to me unless they can make an impact in the playoffs. The players need to develop because the eventual goal is to at least be something along the lines of EC Champions and/or winning the title.

  21. hoolahoop

    There was a point in the first half when the Knicks were leading. Then, they capitulated and the Celtics cruised to a relatively easy victory. The Celtics played efficiently, just enough intensity to win. Did anyone really believe the Knicks were going to come from behind and leave Boston with a w.

    Here’s the thing. When you believe you can win, you do what it takes to make sure you win. If the Knicks would have won this game they would have become a better team just by that fact. They would have then entered each following game believing they should and would win. To paraphrase Yogi, 90% of winning is half mental.

    That being said, let’s hope the Knicks can build on their strengths and become a top tier team.

    I agree with adrenaline, squeezing into the eighth playoff spot with an early exit means nothing to me.

  22. TDM

    “Did anyone really believe the Knicks were going to come from behind and leave Boston with a w.”

    I definitely thought it was possible. AND, if Gallo were healthy and hitting at least a few of his 3s, I think the Knicks would have won. His wrist injury is bothering him, but he wants to fight thru the pain and play. I think Mike D needs to really assess the value of having him on the floor playing less than 100% while his wrist improves vs whether he is hurting the team by playing him.

  23. danvt

    I think Anthony Randolph is fast becoming the Nick Johnson of basketball. He’s the Nick of the Knicks. Staying on the court is important and being strong is an important part of not getting injured. Clyde talked about doing fingertip pushups to avoid finger jams. Think about that.

    Is he snake bit or weak?

  24. massive

    Landry Fields Stat Line:

    11 ppg, 7 rpg, 2 apg, 0 turnovers, 44% from 3, with a PER of 17.9, a TS of 61%, and a WS/48 of .212.

    Wow.

  25. Frank

    Missed most of the game last night but am happy to see the knicks were competitive to the end, on the road against the eastern conference champions AFTER the Celts just got embarrassed in Cleveland in a letdown game.

    Watching Fields – I know it has only been 2 games, but he actually reminds me most of Shane Battier. Strong defender, glue guy, not awesome traditional stats, but plays smart/tough. Except Battier was a top 5 pick, and Donnie got him in the 2nd round.

  26. NateRobinson

    @10 You obviously have no idea what you’re talking. This is the second game of the season. By your standards the Nets would join the Lakers in the Finals. Gallo has inflammation on his wrist which is much worse to shoot on than a broken finger.

    Two things, Rautins should take Masons minutes ASAP. Walker should be reminded he was a slasher in KSU and stop jacking up long three’s.

  27. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I see Shane Battier — not because he’s mixed race (although the armchair psychologists might think otherwise), but because of the way he crashes boards, plays strong defense (although Glen Davis smoked him on that spin move last night), and isn’t a “Kobe in ’06” kind of player.

    I think he is an “awesome” traditional stats guy so far, unless you mean “volume scoring.” He’ll be on the all-rookie team if he keeps this up.

    WS/48 0.212
    PER 17.9
    eFG .611
    TS% .611

    Not saying he could keep these kind of stats up, but that’s an elite player, right there. And it’s a testament to how forward thinking this board is: many of us would have taken him far earlier in the draft if we had the chance.

    But if only Ty Lawson were running the point and DeJuan Blair were snatching rebounds from the defense…

  28. ess-dog

    Charlotte lost to Indy last night. Milwaukee lost to Minny. I think we have a great shot in the east this year at the playoffs, even with just slight improvements from everybody. Chicago/Atlanta seems like the ceiling at the 4th and 5th seeds but also, watch out for NJ…

  29. Brian Cronin

    My wife said she’d get us tickets to a Yankees game for my birthday back in June. We never had a real good time to go, so she said we’d do a Knick game instead. So we’re going to the home opener tonight! Should be a blast! I’ve been to a home opener before, but never to one when the team actually looked sort of good!

  30. ess-dog

    Wow BC. I’m jealous. Should be a good game. I have a feeling we’ll take this one. Landry’s gonna get all up in Roy’s business tonight on D and I think that’ll be the difference. Oh and I think Danilo will show up tonight. At least I hope…

  31. hoolahoop

    I don’t own a tv set, but I’m going to take my girl to sit first row to a high end Columbus Ave Japanese joint and watch the home opener on a huge screen while I enjoy my sushi with the new look Knicks.

  32. MSA

    People should stop this whole Hill over Lawson/Jennings thing.

    Any one of those guys would be sitting on the Rockets bench right now if we had drafted them…

  33. Robert Silverman

    hoolahoop: I don’t own a tv set, but I’m going to take my girl to sit first row to a high end Columbus Ave Japanese joint and watch the home opener on a huge screen while I enjoy my sushi with the new look Knicks.  

    For those w/o TV or cable – you can always watch online here:

    http://atdhe.net/index.html

  34. hoolahoop

    Robert, Thanks for the link – but you’re not helping me stay away from that silly machine they call tv. I’ve wasted more hours in front of ugly Knick games than any man should in one life.

  35. Robert Silverman

    MSA: People should stop this whole Hill over Lawson/Jennings thing.Any one of those guys would be sitting on the Rockets bench right now if we had drafted them…  

    Well, if Lawson (Not a Jennings fan) had been drafted, I think Houston probably would have taken Chandler in the same package. So you could gave Lawson/No Chandler or Felton/Chandler. Tough choice, actually

  36. Ted Nelson

    MSA: Any one of those guys would be sitting on the Rockets bench right now if we had drafted them… 

    Yeah, that is probably true.

    Robert Silverman: So you could gave Lawson/No Chandler or Felton/Chandler. Tough choice, actually  

    That’s an interesting twist. The rookie is more valuable in the sense that they have longer on the rookie deal, and Morey is known as sort of the moneyball guy of the NBA (could have avoided paying Lowry this offseason if had acquired another PG… maybe a good PG who was playing over Duhon could have saved the Knicks one or both picks, though). Also they had other “defensive specialist” types in Battier and Ariza on the wings at the time, so maybe Chandler is not as attractive as a rookie PG to them.

  37. Robert Silverman

    Jordan Hill actually can’t crack the Houston big man rotation — Yao, Scola, Hayes, & Miller. Jeez, not the most impressive bunch

  38. jaylamerique

    Robert Silverman: Jordan Hill actually can’t crack the Houston big man rotation — Yao, Scola, Hayes, & Miller. Jeez, not the most impressive bunch  

    i blame that pick on the warriors. i still wish curry was the pg of the knicks

  39. BigBlueAL

    Why in the world is Felton covering Batum?? Also why in the world is Gallo playing?? He clearly needs to sit and rest that wrist.

    Knicks offense looking awful early on.

  40. ess-dog

    That was a good scoop shot by Gallo though. Maybe he can build on that. We need him to get more physical out there.

  41. Ted Nelson

    Robert Silverman: Yao, Scola, Hayes, & Miller. Jeez, not the most impressive bunch  

    That’s a pretty solid group, IMO. I don’t know exactly what you’re getting at, though, in terms of pointing that out.

  42. jaylamerique

    Ted Nelson:
    That’s a pretty solid group, IMO. I don’t know exactly what you’re getting at, though, in terms of pointing that out.  

    aside from scola and Yao, Hill should be able to get minutes over Hayes and Miller. Hayes is 6″5 and has no offensive game and Miller is clear not the same player.

  43. Robert Silverman

    Ted Nelson:
    I don’t know exactly what you’re getting at, though, in terms of pointing that out.  

    Just that Hill’s not very good at this point in his career

  44. Ted Nelson

    Knicks don’t really play offense… It’s all 1-on-1 and 2 man games. Everyone standing around and watching. I don’t know if it’s the lack of familiarity or it’s on D’Antoni (you can afford to do that when Nash is one of the 2 in the 2 man game, but not Felton…). I feel like I’m watching an Isiah team or something.
    Oberto, on the other hand, is such a smart player. Portland actually plays an offense where all 5 guys are moving…

  45. Spree8nyk8

    idk if it’s bc it’s early in the season, or what. But it sure seems like Amare goes to the bench for too long when he comes out.

  46. SeeWhyDee77

    who IS this Turiaf guy???? lol…i’ve never seen him play this well on defense. If he can find a way to stay healthy this season, he will be VERY valuable, offense aside. With the way Chandler’s playing, i’d hate to see him go…but now is definitely the time to move him. He is shown in the 1st 2 games exactly what i’ve been sayin about him these past 2 weeks, with way more scoring than I anticipated.

  47. Spree8nyk8

    I”m really not liking the rotation use by D’antoni. It just seems like he’s playing way too many guys. They can’t seem to find a rhythm.

  48. Ted Nelson

    jaylamerique: Hayes is 6?5 and has no offensive game and Miller is clear not the same player.  

    They’re solid veteran back-ups on a team looking to contend. I’m not saying Hill is very good, but I don’t think it necessarily means he can’t have a solid career and on some other teams I think he would at least have a better shot at the rotation than a team with 4 good bigmen.

    I don’t know if Miller is the same player or not, but through 2 games he’s got a PER of 21. He’s also a 7 foot C, while Hill is a lanky 6-9 PF.

    Hayes is a pretty good basketball player. I’d take him on my team.

    Robert Silverman: Just that Hill’s not very good at this point in his career  

    Yeah, he’s not very good. He actually had a pretty good preseason, though. Plenty of mistakes, but also plenty of promise.

  49. BigBlueAL

    I dont care if the Knicks lose tonight, but not if they do so by playing this pathetically. lol

  50. latke

    I’m just seeing a lack of awareness of matchups here. It’s nice to have a general strategy, but you have to be able to adapt. For example, you can’t switch everything vs. Boston, because their big men are too big and talented. Likewise, Chandler will generally be quicker than opposing power forwards, so isos aren’t a bad idea, but Aldridge is far more mobile than the average power forward, so those isos are just not a great bet.

  51. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: They can’t seem to find a rhythm. 

    I would criticize D’Antoni more for what looks like an awful/non-existent offensive strategy than the rotation. No one moves, no one moves the ball, people force shots… Still if they’re 3-10 from 3 instead of 1-10 this is a game…

  52. Robert Silverman

    You mean the “Stand around and watch Amar’e” offense. It’s eerily similar to the “Stand around and watch Ewing” and/or the “Stand around and watch “Bernard King” offense

  53. BigBlueAL

    So, trade everybody but Fields and Amar’e for Melo?? lol

    My GOD can the Knicks make a FT or 3pter Jesus Christ!!

    Sorry Ive had a long day, I will shutup now and just try to enjoy the rest of this game :-)

  54. Frank O.

    @62
    Seriously, there is no offensive flow.
    It doesn’t seem to help to have two teams running.
    They have become a half court team with very little ball movement.
    What the heck…

  55. Ted Nelson

    latke: It’s nice to have a general strategy

    It’s nice when your general strategy is good… For example, how long will it take the Knicks to realize giving Amare the ball at the 3 pt line is not a good strategy? He’s taken two awful long-range shots and been stripped yet again.

  56. Spree8nyk8

    Ted Nelson:
    I would criticize D’Antoni more for what looks like an awful/non-existent offensive strategy than the rotation. No one moves, no one moves the ball, people force shots… Still if they’re 3-10 from 3 instead of 1-10 this is a game…  

    No what i’m saying is early no Landry Fields was doing some nice things, Amare made a couple of plays and it’s like EVERYONE comes out. They had nothing but reserves on the court. And I’m just saying it was the first quarter.

  57. Spree8nyk8

    Thats a bullshit call, how can they call an offensive foul on Stat with Camby totally sliding sideways.

  58. Robert Silverman

    Spree8nyk8: Thats a bullshit call, how can they call an offensive foul on Stat with Camby totally sliding sideways.  

    The Knicks have gotten hosed by the refs since the Nixon Administration. (the Hollins/Hubert Davis call being the exception that proves the rule)

  59. Ted Nelson

    Robert Silverman: You mean the “Stand around and watch Amar’e” offense.

    Yeah, that and also the Felton dribbles around while no one else moves and whoever he passes to has to shoot the ball offense and the give Amare the ball at the 3 pt line so he can stay away from his strengths, shoot ugly Js, and turn it over… and the Chandler shoots 20 times per game offense (which is actually working right now…). The Felton stands right next to Amare/WC, hands them the ball, and they run all-out towards the basket like a wild-man offense. All of those. Also, the “Knicks can’t shoot” offense, which should even out over time.

  60. Robert Silverman

    I think Wilson Chandler inherited Al Harrington’s brain/offensive mindset when he left

  61. Spree8nyk8

    Robert Silverman: I think Wilson Chandler inherited Al Harrington’s brain/offensive mindset when he left  

    Not really understanding that at all….He’s been great so far this young season…

  62. Robert Silverman

    Spree8nyk8:
    Not really understanding that at all….He’s been great so far this young season…  

    He’s made a lot of tough shots, but the percentage IS going to go down over time. I mean, when Will gets the ball (like AH) he’s shooting – no ifs ands or buts. When they’re going in, great (like AH, who could look like an all-star at times and awful at others). When they aren’t, it kills ball-movement/rhythm/etc.

  63. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: Not really understanding that at all….He’s been great so far this young season…  

    Al Harrington is a pretty good scorer… That’s not an insult, IMO. Still, WC seems to be doing better when he goes with the flow than when he tries to force everything and do everything by himself.

  64. latke

    Robert Silverman: I think Wilson Chandler inherited Al Harrington’s brain/offensive mindset when he left  

    Offensively, yes, he’s shooting it an awful lot. The difference is he’s rebounding more, shooting more efficiently, and blocking more shots.

  65. Robert Silverman

    Did Clyde just call Aldridge, “LaMockus?”

    What’s even weirder is he then managed to pronounce “Marcus” Camby’s name correctly

  66. Spree8nyk8

    It’s so weird, I love having Chandler coming off the bench and what he’s bringing, but if he keeps playing this well can they keep him there?

  67. Robert Silverman

    Odd half. Stoudemire has been sub-par. Felton’s missed at least 3 layups that I remember and the game is tied.

    And with that, I’m off to a party. Go NY Go NY GO!

  68. Ted Nelson

    latke: shooting more efficiently

    That is not true… Through 2 games his TS% was .527… tonight he’s at 54%. Al was around 55% as a Knick. Fraggle was every bit as efficient as Melo who is a “great scorer.”

    He does do a lot more defensively and has been rebounding, but Robert specifically said scoring…

  69. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: but if he keeps playing this well can they keep him there?  

    Manu was arguably the 2nd best SG in the league for a several year stretch and came off the bench the whole time… You can start or not start whoever you feel like.

  70. nicos

    I don’t know- the shots Chandler’s putting up are as good (if not better) than most of the shots the Knicks are getting by running the offense. They really miss Gallo’s shooting- tough to create space for Amare without a consistent deep threat- no one’s really contesting Chandler or Felton behind the strip- they’re just sagging off and letting them shoot. Someone’s going to have to start knocking down shots to get space for Stat to work.

  71. BigBlueAL

    I have no idea what the hell to think about that 1st Half.

    Best thing I can say is dunno how but the Knicks are somehow tied at halftime and eventually some of those 3pters from TD and Gallo will have to go in so hopefully it starts happening in the 2nd half and the Knicks pull this one off. Interesting to see D’Antoni becoming the 2nd coming of Jeff Van Gundy. lol

  72. Spree8nyk8

    It would be really fantastic if they can get a W here, bc the knicks early schedule is really rough.

  73. Spree8nyk8

    Funny tweet from Alan Hahn….

    alanhahn

    Eventually, Ray Felton will recognize Timofey Mozgov as a teammate and lob one of those pick-and-rolls for an oop. Timo is open a lot.

  74. Ted Nelson

    nicos: Someone’s going to have to start knocking down shots to get space for Stat to work.  

    I wouldn’t just blame this… They seem to be actively trying to get him the ball on the perimeter

  75. nicos

    Felton also has realize Amare’s not a guard- he’s given him the ball 30+ feet from the basket in transition multiple times tonight. Get him the ball where it’s one dribble to basket.

  76. Ted Nelson

    nicos: Felton also has realize Amare’s not a guard- he’s given him the ball 30+ feet from the basket in transition multiple times tonight.Get him the ball where it’s one dribble to basket.  

    As much as I’m not a Fleton fan, I’d put that on D’Antoni. It’s been the same thing for 3 games… If D’Antoni weren’t happy with that he’ve had stopped it by now. I have to assume it’s by design.

  77. Spree8nyk8

    Ted Nelson:
    The shots aren’t going in and he’s turning it over way too much…  

    Ted Nelson:
    The shots aren’t going in and he’s turning it over way too much…  

    3rd quarter he made 3 shots, had an offensive rebound and had 1 turnover with no misses.

  78. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: 3rd quarter he made 3 shots, had an offensive rebound and had 1 turnover with no misses.  

    There have been 2 3/4 games played… not 1 quarter. Overall he’s playing way worse offensively than on his career. He’s dribbling too much, getting the ball in bad spots, forcing perimeter shots he has no business taking…

  79. Spree8nyk8

    it’s 2 3/4ths games into a new seaon with 10 new guys on the floor, spacing isnt right, most of the mistakes thus far are the types of things that come with having TEN new guys. And you’ve been all over him for 3 straight games. He’s averaging 23.5 and he’s obviously not getting the ball where he’d like to be getting it but until they work the kinks out you gotta take the good with the bad.

  80. SeeWhyDee77

    Frank O.: Is WC autistic???
    His interviews look so strange  

    lol…no the question is-is somethin wrong with Turiaf? His interviews SOUND so strange. No offense to the french….

  81. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: he’s obviously not getting the ball where he’d like to be getting it

    I don’t think it’s that obvious. He seems pretty happy to get it there, or at least he continues to set up there and take the ball from there. If he gets the ball in a bad spot with plenty of time on the clock he needs to reset the offense instead of bull-rush the basket of take a 20+ foot J.

    I’m not blaming Amare for all the Knicks problems. I’m blaming him for acting like a guard on offense. It seems like it’s by design to me.

    Spree8nyk8: you gotta take the good with the bad.  

    There has been too much bad from Amare so far. I have no doubt he’ll turn it around, but what I’m saying is that I feel like this will happen when he realizes he’s not a guard and stops playing like one. I also blame D’Antoni for seeming to encourage this lunacy.

  82. Frank O.

    @106
    Do you think maybe D’Antoni is trying to use Amare as he did Lee. Often Lee would get the ball up there…
    It makes sense. This wouldn’t be happening over and over if it wasn’t sanctioned by D’Antoni

  83. Spree8nyk8

    Thus far this season the rest of the Knicks had not earned the respect of opposing players. So Amare has not been able to get the ball when setting up low. Watch, he’s setting up low constantly, but he never gets the ball there. So he has to move out to get the ball. Once the knicks start knocking down shots more I think he’ll be able to get it inside more often. Everytime they pick and roll him and he moves down the D totally sags on him and the pass never comes.

  84. Ted Nelson

    Frank O.: Do you think maybe D’Antoni is trying to use Amare as he did Lee. Often Lee would get the ball up there…
    It makes sense. This wouldn’t be happening over and over if it wasn’t sanctioned by D’Antoni  

    I think it’s definitely sanctioned. I think it’s a mistake, though. Lee is a much better passer, and they were usually trying to get him the ball at the elbow-ish… Amare is getting the ball at the 3-pt line. It’s like a pick-and-roll where they forgot about the roll part of the equation… He’s trying to go 1-on-1 off the dribble all the bloody time. He took a 3 and a shot with his foot on the line in the 1st… not call for that. He’s playing too much like a guard, in my opinion, and not enough like a bigman. He’s going away from his strengths too much for me. Not to say he’s not doing some great things.

    Knicks are generally winning on defense, I’d say.

  85. Ted Nelson

    Amare literally did not go below the FT line once in that possession where Chandler got blocked… at least until Chandler was ahead of him on his way to the basket. I think it’s pretty obvious he (and D’Antoni) wants the ball on the perimeter.

  86. Frank O.

    @114
    HAHAHAHA!
    @113
    You know, he’s grown up with an MVP point guard. Maybe he’s trying to do things he didn’t get a chance to do with Nash.
    He is trying to be the guy. On Phoenix, Nash ran the show. Here, Amare is kind of the show.
    But again, this is on D’Antoni’s offense.

    He gets a lot of balls stolen when he puts it on the floor.

    Great game, but again like passing a stone.

  87. Frank O.

    Man, they pulled out ahead and let the lead evaporate…at home.
    Not good.
    Interesting who D;Antoni is going with on the floor

  88. Frank O.

    Clyde says Portland is running a match up zone to shut down Stat.
    that would indicate they feel okay letting others try to beat them.

  89. Ted Nelson

    Frank O.: He is trying to be the guy.

    Frank O.: He gets a lot of balls stolen when he puts it on the floor.

    Yeah, I think he’s trying to be the guy in the wrong way a lot of the time. When Amare or WC takes a step towards the basket, even if 2 or 3 guys are defending them, they have almost never passed the ball this season. Amare is putting it on the floor and telegraphing where he’s going… He doesn’t have a guard’s handle, so he should stop playing like a guard.

  90. latke

    I hope miller misses both, and they give the ball to amare on the wing again, and let him turn it over. A sacrifice for the future. Hopefully this will have a lasting effect on the memories of D’Antoni and Amare.

  91. BigBlueAL

    Its games like this that make me further realize the unfortunate truth which is the Knicks have become the LA Clippers of the East.

  92. rohank

    Suddenly it’s not the rebounding…..it’s the FT line, TOs and just straight up GET THE BALL IN THE BASKET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

    Turiaf +5 (high)
    Gallo -11 (low) WTF?

  93. Ted Nelson

    I’m pretty encouraged really… The Knicks played as well as the Blazers for 47 minutes. And they did it mostly, in my estimation, on defense. Their offense was pretty bad, again in my mostly subjective estimation (have looked over the box score). Now maybe they (and fans) will realize that Amare is not a “closer” or “finisher” in the way a LeBron or even Kobe is. You can’t just dump the ball to him on the perimeter and isolate him. He has a mediocre handle, mediocre passing ability, and no pull-up move… when he puts the ball on the floor there’s only one place he’s going. Run an offense rather than his iso-NBA crap. 6 TO/game is just too obvious for the Knicks not to put 2-and-2 together at some point.

    When/if D’Antoni puts that offensive mind of his to work and comes up with a coherent offensive plan the team should get things going. When/if their shooters (besides Walker who hit tonight) get their act together the Knicks should get it going. This is a time where I think D’Antoni has to earn his job. There are no more personnel excuses. Run a coherent offense where players’ strengths are maximized and their weaknesses minimized! If not, get a coach who can.

  94. Kikuchiyo

    Grumpy bunch tonight at Knickerblogger. Sure, I understand it. This was a putrid finish. But this team is brand new and they were one basket or two from being 2-1. Let’s not get too negative here. Portland is a good team that’s been together for a while. And Boston is, of course, built to crush teams like NY.

    Some 3-pt. shot fun facts:

    Amar’e is 2 of 5 on threes; Gallo is 2 of 11.
    Amar’e took only 6 3-pointers all of last season. (7 the year before.)
    Let’s hope both men remember where their bread is buttered.

    My grumpy comment: We talked about this team all summer long, turning over each possible move with thread after thread. Why is it so hard to get fresh game threads for each game? This one is called “Celtics 105, Knicks 101.” That’s odd. (Sorry, just feeling bitchy after that game.)

  95. Ben R

    Between Mozgov and Turiaf we played 40:39 with a true center. In those 40+ minutes we outscored Portland by 7, in the 7:31 we did not have a true center we were outscored by 12. It seems to me we should keep them out there. They’re were both playing well and our defense was much stronger with them on the court.

    I agree with Hahn, Mozgov is open alot.

    As for Amare, teams have decided they are not going to be beat by Amare on the pick and roll. That’s fine we just need to find other ways to score. It’s partly because we are missing outside shots but we are also really forcing the issue with Amare. How about we use him as a decoy when teams double him and pack the paint until they are forced to open up. It’s like we have decreed that Amare must take 15-20 shots even if everyone on the defense is overplaying him. Why did we give the ball to amare 25 feet from the basket on an iso when we’re looking for the gametying shot. He’s our star but you would not give the ball to Ewing, Howard, Shaq, etc 25 feet from the basket just becasue teams are packing the paint. You would just find other ways to score.

  96. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    At one point, Wilson Chandler was 2-3 from beyond the arc. Ending 3-9 means he was forcing a LOT of shots. That’s bad. I guess my opinion stands the same.

    The worst part is, I don’t expect it to change. He’s in a contract year, and the league rewards chuckers. He’ll score 22 ppg and some team in California will ink him to a 4 year, $45M deal.

  97. latke

    Ben R: As for Amare, teams have decided they are not going to be beat by Amare on the pick and roll. That’s fine we just need to find other ways to score. It’s partly because we are missing outside shots but we are also really forcing the issue with Amare. How about we use him as a decoy when teams double him and pack the paint until they are forced to open up. It’s like we have decreed that Amare must take 15-20 shots even if everyone on the defense is overplaying him. Why did we give the ball to amare 25 feet from the basket on an iso when we’re looking for the gametying shot. He’s our star but you would not give the ball to Ewing, Howard, Shaq, etc 25 feet from the basket just becasue teams are packing the paint. You would just find other ways to score.  

    Amen!! Hallelujah!!

    Said what I haven’t found the words to say.

    Kudos.

    Forward this to D’Antoni.

  98. nicos

    Two key plays- both Fields and Turiaf with easy opportunities for And 1’s- neither hits, then Fields misses one free throw, Turiaf both and inside of stretching the lead they let Portland hang around. Obviously, all the missed free throws really hurt- that’s two nights in a row- hopefully doesn’t kill them all year.

    On the plus side- however Duhon-esque Felton’s TS% winds up being, he sure ain’t Duhon- he’s twice as aggressive on both ends of the floor. He’s not the greatest playmaker in the world but I don’t think He’ll cost us as many games as Duhon did last year. And I can’t criticize him too much on running the P & R with Amare, at least not yet- when they’ve run it for whatever reason Amare doesn’t seem to be rolling hard to the hoop- hopefully they’ll get on the same page soon (part of the reason I was hoping they would have run it more in the preseason).

    Hard to get too down on Chandler but his shooting in the last 5-10 minutes of all three games has been pretty awful. That said- 16 boards, 3 blocks, 2 steals, and really did a good job on Roy in the 4th- I think if D’Antoni had been able to find a line-up where Chandler could have played Roy more often this might have been a win. Fields really struggled trying to guard him. That Amare, Turiaf, Chandler front court really played well on D.

    Gallo seemed to let his poor shooting bother him, no boards, assists, etc… wasn’t sharp on the defensive end at all. Hasn’t played any 4th quarter minutes the last two games and frankly hasn’t deserved to- he’ll play better I’m sure, but is he going to make that big step forward this year?

  99. BigBlueAL

    Check that, 28 pts and 10 reb in 29 minutes.

    BTW Im not saying Knicks shouldve kept him or anything I just found it funny seeing his line tonight plus believe it or not he was my last pick in my fantasy basketball draft lol

  100. BigBlueAL

    The reason Amar’e wasnt rolling hard off the pnr is because there was always a Blazer defender waiting there for him. They were running a pnr against 3 defenders all the time not 2.

  101. nicos

    BigBlueAL: The reason Amar’e wasnt rolling hard off the pnr is because there was always a Blazer defender waiting there for him.They were running a pnr against 3 defenders all the time not 2.  

    Yes but that happened fairly often in Phoenix too but I think he trusted Nash to make the great pass in a way he doesn’t trust Felton- if Amare dives hard then he’s pulling two guys into the lane with him and Felton should be able to find someone wide open on the perimeter even if he can’t make the pass to Amare (how do you think Channing Frye got all of those open 3s last year). With Amare just kind of following Felton along they’re not getting the same kind of spacing.

  102. Ben R

    The big difference is in Phoenix when they had three defenders on the pnr and Amare rolled he rarely got the basketball but that was okay, because it meant someone else was open. With the Knicks, Amare seems to know he won’t get the basketbal, just like in Phoenix, but instead of rolling anyway and getting someone else an open look he stops and gets the ball 25 feet from the basket. This kills our spacing and fails to punish teams for packing the paint. It’s like now that he’s the man it is not his job to be a decoy and get other people open looks but his job to score even if it means taking lots of jumpers and averaging 6 turnovers a game.

    It show a lack of patience. If we just keep running the pnr and actually dive to the basket we will eventually hit our threes, the middle will open up and then Amare will get his shots. I know some of our shooters are stuggling but it’s not like their getting great looks. Maybe if Amare commited to his dives our shooters would get better looks and start hitting their shots.

  103. jon abbey

    if Gallo isn’t hurt, maybe he’s playing like this because he knows there’s a very good chance he’s going to end up in Denver soon and he really doesn’t want that.

    to spin it in a good way, how cool would it be if that deal went down with Chandler instead of Gallo because of how they’re playing now, and then Gallo turned it back on once Carmelo got here? anyway, that’s my hope…

  104. Brian Cronin

    I get that the Knicks bench is kind of thin right now, but seriously, Gallo is useless if his wrist is keeping him from making shots, so just give him a couple of games off to let the wrist heal.

  105. steveoh

    I agree with benching Gallinari if his wrist is bothering him. He’s not really contributing anything else. Even tonight, he got caught looking on defense, and that’s really indefensible, sore wrist or not.

    What I wouldn’t do is start Chandler in his place. The nice thing about his game so far is that he’s been, in Clyde’s words, ubiquitous. And I think much of that has been because he hasn’t been labeled to a specific position, where he might feel he has to play within a job description. He’s just been filling in where there’s a need, and it’s freed him up to just play.

  106. Brian Cronin

    What’s maddening to me is that D’Antoni seems to pretty clearly be doing an approach of “Let’s see if Gallo healthy. No? Okay, to the bench with him for the rest of the half,” which doesn’t really make any sense. Why not just give him a full game off instead of “Is he healthy yet? No, okay, we’ll try again at the start of the second half”?

    All it does it put the Knicks at a disadvantage since Gallo can’t hit outside shots and that frustration looks like it is affecting the rest of his game. Just start Walker next game (which would allow Chandler to play the same role he has gotten quite used to).

    Also, I think Fields should be involved in the offense more – for a little while there he and Chandler really had something going on. It was nice to see. I was pleased to see very little of Mason, by the way. I can’t wait until Azubuike makes him completely useless.

  107. Brian Cronin

    My grumpy comment: We talked about this team all summer long, turning over each possible move with thread after thread. Why is it so hard to get fresh game threads for each game? This one is called “Celtics 105, Knicks 101.” That’s odd. (Sorry, just feeling bitchy after that game.)

    Nah, it’s a fair enough point. Let me assure you – we’ll have game threads up for the next 78 games, I’ll make a point of it (if no one else beats me to posting them, of course).

  108. Frank

    Was at the game last night – great crowd, louder than it has been in the last few years except maybe for that game where Gallo and Melo went at each other last year.

    Thought Felton played great, his last shot which got blocked notwithstanding. No one else seemed to be particularly engaged at the offensive end in the 4th quarter.

    Few wishes:
    – Chandler – you’re playing great, but STOP SHOOTING 3s.
    – Gallo – sit for a week until your wrist is better, or just the drive the ball every single time instead.
    – Amare – if we wanted a big man to iso 1-on-1 and have 6 TOs and 6 rebounds, we already have an $11M black hole on the inactive list. Someone has got to figure out how to get him the ball on the move to the basket. I can’t believe for a minute that they can’t run the pick and roll because of the defense. They ran it every play in Phoenix and teams couldn’t stop it even though they knew it was coming. I’m no basketball coach but that would be priority #1 for me if I was D’Antoni.
    – FREE THROWS!!!!!!!

  109. SeeWhyDee77

    Well…I suppose there are a few things to be encouraged about so far considering things have been so abnormal for our knicks for so long. But rite now, and I’m not saying this becuz I’m down on the team, the only bright side to the start of the season is that we’ve lost to 2 great teams. That said, we had a chance to win in both losses and we kinda let it slip through our fingers. Add that to the fact that we BARELY got past a weak Raptors team, and u have as much to be discouraged about as u do to be encouraged about. Now, i’m not gonna harshly critique the team becuz it’s only game 3 and even tho the guys have had a whole training camp together-they still haven’t gelled yet. After years of disappointment, I can be patient enough to reserve judgement til at least..umm..say december. If the team is still playing the same way with the same results, then i’ll get worried. But all in all, the team is showing things that have been missing since Van Gundy coached..hustle, passion, and defense. I mean those guys out there are active and engaged! Come december, if those “intangibles” havent translated into better results then we have a problem.
    Now, I have a question. What say ye (or ye’s) about goin after a guy like Jason Thompson? He’s been leapfrogged in Sacramento because of the additions of Dalembert and Cousins. He would provide more scoring on that second unit and some more rebounding-which by the way we rebounded surprisingly well last nite. I’m intrigued by the thought of adding him, but with the way Chandler is playing, we’d problee hafta send SAC AR or Chandler to pull that one off. So, do u package Chandler and AR with Curry’s deal for Melo? Or do u roll the dice and wait for the offseason to add Melo and trade problee AR for Thompson rite now? Is it 2 early to give up on AR at this point? If he were healthy, would he have made much of a difference in the 1st 3 games? More than Jason Thompson would? AR brings blocking and rebounding to the table, and a tremendous upside. But unless he bulks up and plays the 5, I don’t see much need for him now..especially if Turiaf stays healthy. Why? Between Turi, Stat, Moz, and Chandler- we are getting enough blocks. Thompson would add more scoring and just about the same as AR in rebounding. To me it’s a toss up. But like I said, seeing what the healthy players are giving us right now, unless AR plays the 5, then I think we can afford to move him. What do you guys think?

  110. iserp

    SeeWhyDee77, I think Jason Thompson would be a nice pickup, but I’d rather wait and see what can we get out of Mozgov and Turiaf; and I also would like to see Stoudemire playing in a more conventional way before deciding to bring a new center. And actually, i am more worried about outside shooting than rebounding right now.

  111. Ted Nelson

    Ben R: As for Amare, teams have decided they are not going to be beat by Amare on the pick and roll.

    I don’t know that the Knicks are making any effort to pick-and-roll with him. He sets a pick and stands there, Felton hands him the ball, Amare drives towards the basket. That’s almost the default offense at this point… Maybe teams are taking it away, but so far I have seen little effort to “roll” by either one of them. It doesn’t look anything like a pnr to me, just a hand-off iso thing.

    Ben R: Why did we give the ball to amare 25 feet from the basket on an iso when we’re looking for the gametying shot. He’s our star but you would not give the ball to Ewing, Howard, Shaq, etc 25 feet from the basket just becasue teams are packing the paint. You would just find other ways to score.

    Great point.

    My feeling is also that if there were a little more motion teams would have a harder time defending the Knicks and they would be able to find more open men (including Amare in better spots probably). The offense is so stagnant. Everyone stands around. One guy has the ball and dribbles around, 4 guys stand around and watch him. That’s what I expect from a Larry Brown or JVG, I thought D’Antoni was a better offensive coach than that. Sure you can kick the ball around and find an open man (which I also would say the Knicks aren’t doing enough), but you can also get open by you know… moving yourself. Force guys to chase you, force defenses to switch or lose a step on their man, move the ball. I guess maybe it’s the whole 7 Seconds or Less thing, but the half-court offense is usually one pass and shoot. Make that extra pass and you’ll often find an open man.

    Ben R: but instead of rolling anyway and getting someone else an open look he stops and gets the ball 25 feet from the basket.

    I think it’s got to be by design: D’Atoni’s call. Maybe not, but at some point if you’re the coach and your best dive man hasn’t run pnr for the entire pre-season and 3 games in the regular season… that’s on you. I don’t know if D’Antoni doesn’t want him pnring, he can’t manage Amare, or what…

    SeeWhyDee77: Is it 2 early to give up on AR at this point? If he were healthy, would he have made much of a difference in the 1st 3 games? More than Jason Thompson would?

    Yeah, I would say it’s too early. I’m more worried about the future than these 3 games. The Knicks are not one 8th man away from anything. And of course it’s impossible to say what he would or would not have done in the 3 games.

    Thompson, by the way, is not necessarily a better scorer than AR. Last season he had about 14 pts/36 (usage of 19.6) on a .518 TS%, while AR had over 18 pts/36 (usage of 24) on a .521 TS%. Where I think AR can differentiate himself from Thompson, though, is defense. Defense is about a lot more than blocked shots. AR is not there yet, but besides cleaning up with blocks and rebounds he has the potential to be a versatile lock-down defender with his length and athleticism.

    SeeWhyDee77: unless AR plays the 5, then I think we can afford to move him. What do you guys think?  

    I also think the Knicks can afford to move him, but I don’t think Jason Thompson is the guy to move him for. Thompson is a marginal improvement at best (one could argue he’s actually worse) and already 24. Move him for a pick come draft time (arguably more upside) or an established veteran who is clearly better (more certainty).

    I also think the Knicks exact rotation today is not necessarily their long-term rotation. Anthony Randolph can be a valuable piece going forward, even if he doesn’t end up being one this season.

  112. Ted Nelson

    iserp: deciding to bring a new center.

    I would call Thompson a PF…

    iserp: i am more worried about outside shooting than rebounding right now.  

    Randolph is a better rebounder than Thompson… But I wouldn’t put too much into such a small sample of outside shooting. The Knicks have guys who can shoot the ball from outside. Douglas and Danilo are not going to shoot a combined 22% from 3 for the whole season. Those guys and Walker are not going to combine for 26%. Those are probably the Knicks 3 best outside shooters. They’ll get it together.

    I do think running an offense rather than letting Amare and WC do whatever they want in isolation would also probably help the 3-pt shooting.

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