Comments on: Carmelo Through the Years

By: Joamiq

Joamiq — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 04:57:11 +0000

Veeery interesting. Great work, Zach.

By: Duff Soviet Union

Duff Soviet Union — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:19:47 +0000

When quoting assist numbers, I think it’s fair to point out that Denver’s hometown scorer has a rep for massively inflating the assist numbers of the hometown players. I haven’t checked the numbers for this year, but in recent history the difference between the percentage of Denver’s baskets paired with an assist at home versus on the road has been the largest difference in the league. Almost every team’s scorer does that to some degree, but Denver’s guy is the worst. In fact the only team to have a higher assisted % of made baskets on the road than at home is the Suns. Makes you wonder how many assists Steve Nash would have if he played half his games in Denver.

By: hoolahoop

hoolahoop — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:02:23 +0000

Juany8: I actually fully agree with your point about statistics by the way, most people who use them (THCJ being such an obvious example it almost feels like a parody) don’t seem to get that the statistics don’t hold any intrinsic meaning of their own. Just because you took an average of how many rebounds a guy has per game does not mean you have an absolute measure of how good he is at rebounding, unless you’ve never heard of boxing out. Yet all the time, you see people equating things like TS% to a player’s offensive quality, assuming that things like Usage rate don’t say anything about a player’s ability to play. That’s a pretty hefty, subjective assumption, not the empirical proof many act like they have. For statisticians, attempting to irrationally define player value by a single formula is more appealing than truly taking the time to watch video and analyze the game like every single scout has to

That's right

By: ruruland

ruruland — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:25:06 +0000

hoolahoop: “When Melo is paired with a point guard able to control the offense, the numbers prove he is not simply a stop-and-hold isolation player.” Yeah, just review the books. Don’t bother to watch the games. After that sentence I wouldn’t read another word.

What are you trying to convey here? That you watched the Miller-Melo Nuggets and 60 percent of his shots weren't assisted? Are you suggesting that he was isoing anywhere near as much then, just that the stats are wrong?

By: ruruland

ruruland — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:18:16 +0000

hoolahoop: Another thing about stats. They are portended to be great objective measurements, but they are subjectively recorded by humans, subject to misjudgement and error – to a high degree.

Ahahaha. "hoola hoop" trying her best to come off as learned. More of an an echo than an original thought. Poor time to use the argument. You're suggesting that the 200 plus games Melo played with a passing point guard and was assisted on over 60 percent of his makes, compared with the over 400 games played with scoring points guards where he was assisted in the 40 percent range.........you're suggesting that's all an accounting error? I like your sentiment about the flaws of stat-counting....,

By: Juany8

Juany8 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:12:05 +0000

I actually fully agree with your point about statistics by the way, most people who use them (THCJ being such an obvious example it almost feels like a parody) don’t seem to get that the statistics don’t hold any intrinsic meaning of their own. Just because you took an average of how many rebounds a guy has per game does not mean you have an absolute measure of how good he is at rebounding, unless you’ve never heard of boxing out. Yet all the time, you see people equating things like TS% to a player’s offensive quality, assuming that things like Usage rate don’t say anything about a player’s ability to play. That’s a pretty hefty, subjective assumption, not the empirical proof many act like they have. For statisticians, attempting to irrationally define player value by a single formula is more appealing than truly taking the time to watch video and analyze the game like every single scout has to

By: Juany8

Juany8 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:04:44 +0000

Hoolahoop Melo has his issues but at this point I’m pretty sure you’ve openly admitted you just don’t like Melo. Clearly he stops the ball and takes bad shots sometimes. So do Lebron, Wade, Kobe, and Rose, it’s called being a primary option on offense, while not having the benefit of being a one man fast break to increase both efficiency and total points. Carmelo has issues, some dealing with effort and focus, some dealing with the fact that he’s just not as fast as the aforementioned players, yet people still expect him to be Lebron and don’t seem to be ok with the possibility that Melo should probably be playing more like Dirk, who hasn’t been exactly praised for great defense and point guard vision. The Knicks don’t have a top 5 player and are unlikely to acquire one in the near future. Doesn’t mean we can’t challenge for a title with 3 top 25 players and some decent role players.

By: ruruland

ruruland — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:03:21 +0000

Grymm: For some reason, I never really liked Chauncey as a point guard.He was a very good basketball player and leader, but not much of a creator.I wonder how much of Carmelo’s ball-stopperness might be derived from playing with a pg who wasn’t going to create him any shots.

he's a combo guard, really. Drives to score, below average PnR.

By: Doug

Doug — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:55:37 +0000

hoolahoop: Another thing about stats. They are portended to be great objective measurements, but they are subjectively recorded by humans, subject to misjudgement and error – to a high degree.

And the observations of the human eye are not?

By: daJudge

daJudge — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:19:11 +0000

Nice piece Zach. I loved Bernard King almost as much as Clyde. I personally think we will see Melo really thrive with this team as currently configured. he brings something few in this league possess. If his skill are bridled, we are in for a real treat. Thanks for the stats to at least partially back up my growing optimism. The other thing involves a comparison between Lin’s turnovers and Melo’s FG%. I think the TO’s will go down and the FG% will go up pretty much for the same reason. Neither Lin nor Melo will be required or be inclined to force the issue with the other options/depth. If you are willing to cut Lin slack on the turnovers, to be reasonably consistent, I think you need to cut Melo some slack on the Iso’s. Also, I don’t know what went down, but I feel terrible for TD. One quick story—My wife canceled her beloved Saratoga Racino trip tonight to watch Lin, et al tonight. Freaking awesome–and I probably saved $300. Go Knicks.