Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 31, 2014

BREAKING UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR: Shump for Faried?

Okay, we should probably be taking this “news” in as low-sodium a manner possible, especially considering the source–one Franklin Q. Isola. But evidently there’s some chatter in the winds about the Knicks and Nuggets discussing an Iman Shumpert for Kenneth Faried swap:

Talks between the Knicks and Nuggets centered around a deal that would send Iman Shumpert to Denver for forward Kenneth Faried have intensified in recent days, the Daily News has learned. According to a league source, no deal is imminent although the struggling Knicks feel they need to make a move to bolster their banged up front court. Tyson Chandler is out at least one month after breaking his leg last week while both Amar’e Stoudemire and Kenyon Martin have been placed on a minute’s restriction because if their health. Shumpert, a former first pick, has fallen out of favor with both head coach Mike Woodson and owner James Dolan. And with J.R. Smith promoted to the starting lineup at shooting guard for Wednesday’s game against the Atlanta Hawks, Shumpert will likely lose his starting spot once Chandler returns. Faried, a native of Newark, N.J., is an undersized power forward but his work rate makes him one of the NBA’s top rebounders.

Now, there’s zero way of knowing how much of this is actually true. Teams (even wildly dysfunctional ones like our Knickerbockers) get on the blower and chew the fat all the time. Talks may have progressed beyond that or it may have just been babbling about Dolan’s rock and/or roll tour with the Eagles, that nutty DiBlasio feller that’s going to turn the clock back on NYC, reducing it to a dystopic hellscape worse than Walter Hill’s “The Warriors” as soon as he gets his grubby, redistributive, unseemly, gag-inducing multl-ethnic family ensconced in Gracie Mansion or the numerous fracking bans that have been enacted in Colorado, when Kroenke and Jimmy started kvetching about their underperforming young talents, and wouldn’t a Strangers on a Train-type solution possibly help both foundering teams?

But let’s assume for the moment that there is merit to all this.. As much as I loooooooove me some Manimal, I can’t for the life of me see how this deal makes sense. It locks Melo in at SF, adds yet another non-floor spacing (Faried’s terrible further than 8′ from the hoop), sub-par defending big to the rotation and banishes the two-PG look to that glass contraption that Jor El used to entrap General Zod et al in the Phantom Zone. Whaddayouse think, Kevin?

Kevin McElroy: It’s funny (EDITOR’S NOTE: None of this is remotely funny, unless you’re a fan of really black comedy.): the Knicks are deep on the wing and soft in the middle so on face, swapping Iman Shumpert for Kenneth Faried is something that might seem to make some sense. If the deal were imminent (or done) I’d have a lot more to say about it. Since this is probably just idle speculation at this point, though, three things:

1) Shumpert has shown a diverse enough offensive skill set this year to make me believe that he’s going to be a more complete player than Faried at his peak.

2) The Knicks should be going small with Melo at the four. We know this. Faried is primarily a four and his defense (while occasionally spectacular) has not reached the level of maturity necessary to indicate that he could anchor the middle of a defense that doesn’t have another big. Trading Shump is a big price to pay on a bet that Faried could turn into a competent five.

3) I’ve heard a million trade rumors involving Shumpert in the past few years. I have liked basically none of them. I don’t like this one either but I hate it less than the majority of the others (at least Faried is young and sortakinda meets a need). If you assume we’re eventually trading Shump whether it makes sense to or not, this would at least not be the worst case scenario. Does that mean I hope they do it? No. It just means I hope this indicates a shift away from answering every challenge by getting older and pricier.

NON-SCIENTIFIC BONUS OPINION TO PROVE THAT “KEVIN MCELROY” IS NOT JUST THE NAME OF A COMPUTER PROGRAM JIM CAVAN WROTE TO ANALYZE BASKETBALL TRANSACTIONS AND RANDOMLY GENERATE SENTENCES ABOUT THE MERITS OF TWO-PG LINEUPS: I like Shump. You like Shump. He’s our guy. We shouldn’t trade him unless there’s a really good reason to. This isn’t a good enough reason. And that’s before the inevitable news that we also included a second rounder to get the deal done. This is probably a non-story. Let’s hope it’s a non-story.

Robert Silverman: Yeah, I agree . Odds are this is, like the Shump-Dudley, Shump-Redick, Shump-Luke Ridnour rumors, much ado about nothing. And given the quality of the return, it’s not a godawful trade, but it reeks of a panic move in the midst of an admittedly panicky, no-fun early season blight.

In sum: it’s Knicktown, Jake.

[UPDATE: 3PM] “Denver is also seeking draft compensation in addition to Shumpert in exchange for Faried.” BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY ARE.

[UPDATE: 6PM] Woj-bombed:

34 comments on “BREAKING UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR: Shump for Faried?

  1. hotdamn

    No deal unless we get a first rounder in addition to Fareed. Period. Anything less and Knicks fans will have one more reason to become Nets fans.

  2. hotdamn

    Our days of giving draft picks to sweeten deals should be over. Why can’t they drive a hard bargain? Just stand pat if people are trying to f*@k you out of your future.

  3. flossy

    Too bad we never managed to consummate Shumpert-for-Redick. Oh well.

    If Shumpert has to be traded (and since this is Dolan we’re talking about, it seems less a question of “if” than “when”), you could do a lot worse than Faried. In fact, Shumpert *is* worse than Faried, in the abstract, though this trade doesn’t solve the Knicks’ problems (nor Denvers). So I don’t know. I wouldn’t hate it, but I’m not dying to see it happen, either.

  4. DRed

    Well put, Flossy. If we’re looking to shore up our frontcourt, we could 1-cut useless ass Chris Smith and sign a tall basketball player; and 2-actually play Cole fucking Aldrich instead of Bargnani.

  5. flossy

    If we’re looking to shore up our frontcourt, we could 1-cut useless ass Chris Smith and sign a tall basketball player

    Yeah not according to Berman, for Dolan reasons of course:

    “Point guard Chris Smith has become the D-League’s first $2 million player.

    That’s the amount Smith, J.R. Smith’s brother, is costing the Knicks as their 15th man due to the punitive luxury-tax system under the new collective bargaining agreement.

    No wonder Knicks owner James Dolan is in a grumpy mood.

    The Knicks’ horrid luxury-tax situation — as reported in Saturday’s Post — was the chief reason the Knicks owner put the kibosh on signing a temporary big man in the wake of Tyson Chandler’s leg injury. They would have had to cut Smith to make room.”

    Ba-dum pshh.

  6. d-mar

    Guys, until Wojnaroski confirms this rumor, it means nothing. Isola is a hack, he probably heard it from one of the beer vendors at MSG.

  7. JK47

    The Knicks’ horrid luxury-tax situation — as reported in Saturday’s Post — was the chief reason the Knicks owner put the kibosh on signing a temporary big man in the wake of Tyson Chandler’s leg injury. They would have had to cut Smith to make room.”

    And of course what Dolan is far too stupid to realize is that the $2 million to Chris Smith is already a sunk cost– he is never going to do a useful thing on a basketball court ever. Instead he’ll compound the problem by keeping lil’ pipe on the roster all year, which means it costs $2 million PLUS the opportunity cost of having a viable player on the roster.

    If a situation is bad, you might as well make it worse. It’s the Knick Way.

  8. Frank O.

    When did it happen that Woodson was down on Shump?
    He’s down on the team writ large at the moment.
    But it’s not like JR tore the ceiling of the Garden the other night. He was atrocious and oh, btw, he had been suspended five games for toking up.
    If he should be down on anyone he should be reconsidering is man-crush on JR.

    I’m not so sure moving Shump is a terrible idea. We have plenty of folks to play the 2, but who we have playing the 4 and 5 is pretty weak in terms of boards.
    But to imply that this has to do with Shump is stupid. The fact that you can get a guy like Faried says a bit about Shump.

  9. stratomatic

    “Timofey Mozgoz and Anthony Randolph would be the funniest frontcourt pairing outside of Stat/Bargnani”

    Neither is as funny as Randolph and McGee!

  10. Hubert

    That headline is brilliant.

    This makes for some entertaining talk on a wednesday, but in reality we really have to take anything that comes from Isola with a massive grain of salt. The guy loves trolling, and this is grade A trolling.

    Besides, the sad truth is that when we do trade Shump, it will be for someone far, far worse than Kenneth Faried.

  11. SirJim

    From what I’ve seen of Faried, he’s an energy player who can post score, rebound, and punish other guys inside. These are three things that the Knicks need, for sure. However, he’s another undersized 4, and that would only increase the logjam at that position. Our depth chart at that position is starting to look deep enough to search for Atlantis already. To add Faried would put us in the Center of the Earth range, or some other Sci-Fi book I didn’t read.

    Melo should be playing 4. It works. As much as we enjoyed watching KMart rough up the post with his scrappy play last year at the 5, trading away an excellent, developing wing in Shumpert for a guy that has to play bigger than he is at the wrong position seems like a short term “fix,” especially since he’ll be on the bench when Chandler returns.

    Then again, I was informed today that I shouldn’t be using logic regarding Knick front office decisions. I’ll put my Dora backpack back on now.

  12. Degree_Absolute

    I’d rather see Cole Aldrich get minutes before we start trading away young assets and future draft picks (how on Earth do we have any left?). This move screams of panic.

  13. stratomatic

    I spent the better par of a year arguing that Melo should play PF, but I no longer think that’s true. I was mistaken. He’s a better player on offense as a PF (same as Lee and Amare are at the C position). But you give up too much on defense and on the boards relative to an actual competent PF. I think the net for both offense and defense is that you are slightly better off with a traditional PF and Melo at SF. Who that PF should be is another question, but for now it should be K-Mart or Metta. Anything that benches Bargnani is a huge plus.

  14. dtrickey

    If this thing goes down, I don’t hate the idea of getting Farried. I’m pretty sure the year Shump and Farried were drafted we were a pretty good chance to draft Mannimal. Really great energy player and can board all day. Scoring ability leaves a little to be desired though.

    I do think though that it’s important to keep guys like Shump around. Obviously he has a good key set and is seemingly improving, however what this team has lacked for the last decade are “home grown” players, i.e. players that get drafted and stay here! I know it probably means jack in the grand scheme of winning championships, but look at the last few teams to win it Miami (Wade, Haslem), Dallas (Dirk), L.A. (Kobe), Boston (Pierce). Obviously Shump isn’t in their league as far as skill goes, but I like the idea of having guys like that around, if it is only for a matter of consistency for us fans. Then again I guess the history of this team right from way back when has always been to lure free-agent talent to the franchise.

  15. dtrickey

    Also considering Denver are supposedly asking for draft picks, I don’t see this deal coming to fruition.

  16. EB

    Wow it took Mills all of 6 games to get the Isaiah allstars back in there. 4 scorers and shump (only because Amare isn’t healthy yet!)

  17. Will the Thrill

    I’m almost afraid of acquiring good players with Woodson as head coach, not sure if he’d like Faried either haha. Probably stick with Bargs, he’s “proven” himself (just like JR).

  18. EB

    I like the shump farieed deal. I don’t know what everyone’s complaining about. Yeah I like shump but farieed has demonstrated more ability in the league so far. Also we will never trade for him as he doesn’t put up enough inefficient shots

  19. maxwell_3g

    I wouldn’t believe that we would even consider this trade if I didn’t know what a bunch of idiots we have running this franchise. This fascination with trading Shump (whether team created or press created) is truly bizaare. He is the exact defensive minded player we need and his stroke is improving. He is clearly capable of shouldering more of a load on this team and the time is coming where we will need him to. I love Faried in theory and I root for him. That being said, it is well known around the league that his positional defense is terrible (though not STAT terrible). yes, he makes great hustle plays, but also is out of position way too much, especially defending the pick and roll. and you know, we really need more defensive liabilities.

  20. Kahnzy

    Faried is far too young and healthy. Obviously, we need to trade Shump for Steve Nash. And of course we couldn’t hope to swing that kind of deal without including our first rounders for the next decade (rules be damned about trading consecutive years). Kupchak will undoubtedly say yes to the deal, but because the Knicks front office is staffed by such swell and awesome guys, we’ll throw in the first born child of the first 50 fans through MSG doors at the next home game.

  21. Owen

    Don’t really understand what’s going on in Denver. Acquiring Hickson made no sense. Signing Foye made no sense. Letting Iggy go made sense but didn’t help. Obviously losing Gallinari was a huge blow. W-Chandler being hurt also doesn’t help. Expecting much from Jordan Hamilton and Evan Fournier seems optimistic, though I don’t know their games well.

    It’s strange they have gone from a 55 win team to a possible tank candidate if McGee is out long term and Faried is gone.

  22. danvt

    Well, I’m sure Shumpert has heard the rumor. 2-5 anyone? Just the fact that this shit is being bandied about right now tells you everything you need to know about this organization. Patchwork and bandaid solutions. Weren’t we supposed to have a younger, healthier squad and a full training camp this year? If DEN makes an offer we can’t refuse, so be it. Faried and our 2014 first rounder back for Shump. Otherwise, click. But, no, we’ll do it, and we’ll find a way to give them a pick, and we’ll probably fuck our cap as well. Please sell the team Dolan!

  23. chrisk06811

    do we even have the ability to trade a 1st rounder at this point? I would think if a pick goes, it’s a 2nd rounder, which is likely worth nothing.

    I agree Farried has proven more at this level. Same age, but thanks to Shump’s injury, Farried has had more of a chance. Interesting Farried averaged 9.2 boards last year in only 28 mins….that’s top 10 in the league per 48mins….offensive rebounds too…..that would be nice to have.

    You have to trade talent to get talent. If we have to deal our shump, at least it would be for a guy we would all immediately love. But, the breaker for me is the offense…..How the hell is Melo ever not going to be double teamed if nobody on the floor but JR can hit a J?

    I’ll be in Denver Fri to see them play MINN; if we do this deal, and we do it quick, it would be shumptastic to see him play live. Denver is a mess; no center, and ill will and gallo hurt.

  24. thenamestsam

    David Aldridge reported that there’s nothing happening on this, and Berman said the same earlier. I’m guessing Isola is just full of shit.

  25. marechal

    Woj did say that the Knicks offered Shump, so there’s that. It’s pretty clear that they are looking to move him, one way or the other.

  26. Jack Bauer

    If they’re trading Shump, & I hope they don’t, they better get an upgrade at Point Guard. That is what ths team needs much more than another undersized front court player. Faried is a good player who hustles a lot, but he is still very undersized for his position. We have more than enough guys to play small ball already. What we really need is more consistent and better play at point guard , kinda like what’s been missing for a long, long, long time – as in since maybe Mark Jackson and Strickland? Oh yeah we traded those guys too…. Moron ownership and front office, the gift that keeps on giving.

  27. mase

    i agree with you jack bauer in that we need a PG… but trading Iman is a very bad idea based on the knicks trade history.

    iman is not a superstar but definately a strong building piece…faried is not that caliber player.

  28. pablopilot

    i agree with you jack bauer in that we need a PG… but trading Iman is a very bad idea based on the knicks trade history.

    By that logic, the Knicks should never make any trades. Which I think is probably the right conclusion.

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