Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, October 31, 2014

Blazers 100, Knicks 95

It only took 3 games, but New York has a losing record again. The Knicks dropped their home opener to Portland, 100 to 95, leaving their record at 1-2 on the season. To say it was a winnable game for New York is an understatement, as the Knicks were up 92-83 with 5:32 left to go. I don’t want to go too much into the details on this one, but I do have a question to ask. Wasn’t replacing David Lee with a scoring superstar supposed to prevent these fourth quarter meltdowns? Not that I’m blaming Amar’e on this one, but if he pulled it out in the final minutes the story would have been how his creative scoring led the team to victory. If people are supposed to use cliches when they naturally occur, then it only makes sense to point out the times when the converse narrative occurs.

57 comments on “Blazers 100, Knicks 95

  1. Z-man

    I was at the game. Great saturday night crowd, eye candy galore!
    Some observations:
    Aside from Roy, The guy who really killed us was Miller, he made one big shot after another and made some backbreaker passes. His three off of the gamble by TD was the dagger of the night.

    Turiaf missing that lay-up and than the two FTs was the beginning of the end for us. We had all the momentum up until that play and the crowd was in a frenzy. He also committed a rally stupid offensive foul after making a great offensive rebound. In a way, he was the goat of the game.

    What’s up with the FT shooting?

    Felton is tough, hard-nosed, quick, etc., but has no chemistry with the team yet, especially with Amar’e.

    Batum looked very, very good.

    While it appeared statistically that Chandler was shooting too much, he actually kept us in the game on several occasions with great plays on both ends. There were at least 2 plays where he shot and rebounded his own miss, leading to a basket. His 2 threes brought us back from a big deficit. Withoug Gallo and Amare scoring as they were expected to, its either Fields (reluctant, green) TD (also reluctant), Felton (not a great shooter either) Walker (made a couple, looked much better than in previous games) or Chandler, who I think had the best overall game for us probably for the third straight game.

    We need Gallo to give us something. Without his 3-pt shooting, we really don’t have a consistent threat from the perimeter. Clearly, teams are going to collapse on Amar’e.

    All in all, I’m upset that we blew that lead and coughed up the game, but at the end of the day, we lost the second game of a very tough away-home back to back against 2 50+win teams. We knew this would be a tough stretch of games for us even before we knew that Gallo would give us absolutely nothing. It’s still October. I can’t read too much into these two losses, only that we are not as good as either the Celts or the Blazers, which we kinda knew already, and that it would take some time to gel, which is to be expected with all these new players. We also know that we’re not as good as Orlando, so I can live with a competitive loss in that game. The Chicago game is also a tough one. If we can just go no worse than 3-7 in the first 10, then the season starts for real.

  2. xduckshoex

    I really like the way the guards are rebounding. The big men aren’t the best rebounders but so far the guards have been doing a good job of pulling down some tough rebounds in traffic to keep the Knicks from getting killed on the boards.

    The thing I hated most about that game was Amare constantly getting the ball 20 feet from the hoop, especially on the last offensive possession, and especially after that had already led to a handful of turnovers. I’m not sure if D’Antoni is calling for that or if Felton is just trying to forcefeed Amare at all times, but whoever is making that decision needs to recognize that Amare isn’t that kind of player and stop giving him the ball in those situations.

  3. adrenaline98

    The only knock I have against STAT so far has been his abhorable turnover rate.

    I feel nervous anytime he puts the ball on the floor. I think if we want to isolate Stat, we really need to clear a side of the floor out, which is fine, but D’Antoni hasn’t recognized that. I think Stat will adjust his game and ultimately stop committing those strip turnovers.

    Second thing is, the Knicks’ guards PnR has some issues in that they don’t go vertical, but that they often go horizontal. Felton has the quickness to get inside, so I don’t know why coming off a PnR, he’s constantly further out than he is closer. If he doesn’t penetrate, they will just fall back on Amar’e every time. No Knicks cutting when the PnR is happening means no easy baskets, and if Gallo isn’t hitting his 3s (or the other guards) then there’s just a reset after reset of PnR. I imagine Fields will be the cutman once he gets more accustomed to the game.

    The real reason the Knicks lost that game though comes down to the most basic of fundamentals: hitting your free throws.

    The Knicks had so many misses from guys who shouldn’t be missing free throws. It was really infuriating and frustrating seeing that.

  4. Ted Nelson

    Z-man: Clearly, teams are going to collapse on Amar’e.

    If he actually stood below the FT line they would collapse on him… With him standing 25 feet from the basket the whole team is easier to guard. Messes up all the spacing IMO.

    If, as Ben R says in the previous thread in regard to the pnr, Amare were to stand inside as a decoy… The Knicks might knock down a few wide open 3s… Just because you miss a few doesn’t mean Chandler should be the only guy shooting from outside. Right now I’m really looking at D’Antoni and wondering about his offensive strategy.

    Z-man: We also know that we’re not as good as Orlando, so I can live with a competitive loss in that game. The Chicago game is also a tough one. If we can just go no worse than 3-7 in the first 10, then the season starts for real. 

    I’m also not too discouraged by the 1-2 start, but I’d like to see them beat some teams that are better than them because they will undoubtedly lose to some teams that are worse than them.

    If the Knicks start 3-7 I’m not too happy. After Chicago (who I think they can beat, especially without Boozer) they play Washington, Philly, Milwaukee, GS, and Minni. If they go 2-4 through that stretch, I have a feeling this may be a long season… The next 10 games aren’t a breeze: Houston, a West Coast trip, then 3 straight against EC playoff teams. If they can only beat 2 of the Wiz, Sixers, Bucks, GS, and Minni… Obviously you can have some slumps and some hot runs in the season, but not a good sign. Every game will be important if the Knicks end up on the playoff bubble as expected.

    xduckshoex: whoever is making that decision needs to recognize that Amare isn’t that kind of player and stop giving him the ball in those situations.  

    Amen. Occasionally I can live with it, but every time down the court?

  5. Ted Nelson

    adrenaline98: The only knock I have against STAT so far has been his abhorable turnover rate.

    Even when he doesn’t turn the ball over his TS% is .532 through 3 games…

    adrenaline98: I think if we want to isolate Stat, we really need to clear a side of the floor out, which is fine

    Why do we want to isolate Stat on the perimeter, though? Occasionally ok, but it shouldn’t be his main role and it shouldn’t be the keystone of the Knicks’ offensive strategy. I’ve been saying this since game 1, but Felton handing the ball off to him also invited Felton’s man to cheat on Amare… That’s why PGs keep picking his pocket on those waste high dribbles: Felton has led them right into Amare’s area.

    Camby stripped him 1-on-1 by forcing him left. He could have done the same even if there were zero other players in the court. By bunching everyone else on one side of the court, you also invite a double team on Stat because 3 guys can guard 4 guys all standing together (and chances are very good that once Amare has the ball he is not passing it). I would prefer to see the team just run a coherent offense and isolate Amare occasionally in the flow of the offense when the match-ups are favorable and he’s a bit closer in. A former DPOY is not a favorable match-up, nor is a double team. This is when a lot of his TOs are occurring: when the issue is forced.

    adrenaline98: If he doesn’t penetrate, they will just fall back on Amar’e every time.

    I don’t think they’re running pnr… I think it’s a hand-off iso play most of the time.

    adrenaline98: The real reason the Knicks lost that game though comes down to the most basic of fundamentals: hitting your free throws

    Yeah, that was the big thing. You can also point to not running a coherent offense, though, because had they done that they probably overcome even that bad of FT shooting. Just making a few FTs would be the easiest way to fix that game, though.

  6. Z

    adrenaline98:
    The real reason the Knicks lost that game though comes down to the most basic of fundamentals: hitting your free throws.
    The Knicks had so many misses from guys who shouldn’t be missing free throws. It was really infuriating and frustrating seeing that.  

    Portland missed just as many freebies as the Knicks last night. LaMarcus Aldridge is a career 76% ft shooter and shot 4-10. So it’s hard to say FT shooting worked against us in this one. If everyone in the game shot their career % last night, Blazers would have won by more than they did.

  7. ess-dog

    I still have a bad taste in my mouth after that loss. We could’ve done so many things different/better and yet we were still right there until the very end. Some positives:

    -Wilson has become a very good slasher. It looks like he has worked on his ballhandling after all. He’s still no Kobe, but he can get where he needs to on the floor.
    -Felton is a good point guard. Very good D (less so on a mismatch like Roy, but still pretty good) and a pretty darn good penetrator. His passing is not exceptional for a point guard, but it’s not bad in a utilitarian way.
    -Mozgov looked a lot better last night. Showed some rebounding prowess and a jumper. His post moves are a work in progress.
    -Fields remains a great glue guy.
    -Walker looked pretty good. Shot was there and he boarded some.
    -This is the best Knicks defense that I can remember, despite a few lapses last night. Especially love the perimeter D and shotblocking.

    The bad:

    -Chandler should only shoot wide open threes- roughly 3 or 4 a game, not 9.
    -Gallo.
    -Mason.
    -Free throws.
    -STAT’s isos. Need to be limited and on the wing. No need for him to do this into traffic.
    -Turiaf. Like him in a very limited role, but he has hands of stone and can’t shoot. Also, terrible rebounder.
    -Fields and Douglas need to be more assertive finding their shot (they are both fast as hell and can take people off the dribble and we need that with Gallo slumping.)
    -Felton needs to see Mosgov for lobs and learn how to kick to the 3 pt line better.
    -D’Antoni. Did he actually ever even call any plays near the end? Or just say, get the ball to Stat or Chandler?

  8. Ted Nelson

    Z: Portland missed just as many freebies as the Knicks last night.

    The Knicks collectively have no control over whether Portland hits their FTs, though, and 100% control over whether they hit their own FTs… The Knicks FT% and the Blazers FT% are two isolated categories, IMO. My missing their FTAs, the Blazers opened up a huge door had the Knicks hit their FTAs. And vice versa.

    ess-dog: Felton is a good point guard.

    He’s played pretty well overall, but I would still say he’s leaving a lot to be desired. His playmaking has been mediocre. He’s run the offense mediocre. His scoring is mediocre…

    ess-dog: This is the best Knicks defense that I can remember

    I believe the Knicks had the two best defensive teams ever in the 90s…

    ess-dog: Wilson has become a very good slasher.

    I know Wilson has looked good and everyone is loving him… but his TS% is .503 through 3 games. He and Stat are costing the Knicks games by forcing shots just as much as they’re carrying the offense on their backs.

  9. BigBlueAL

    Most encouraging part of the first 3 games besides the improved defense which Im actually not that surprised about is easily the play of Landry Fields.

  10. Z-man

    @4 I agree that 3-7would be disappointing, I thought we had a toughtr schedule for games 6-10. Agree that I would like to see us beat Chicago, that’s a team we would like to parallel. It is an early-season road game, and they have had more stability than us, so I would rate us as a definite underdog in that game.

  11. jaylamerique

    Ted Nelson:

    I know Wilson has looked good and everyone is loving him… but his TS% is .503 through 3 games. He and Stat are costing the Knicks games by forcing shots just as much as they’re carrying the offense on their backs.  

    i think thats due to him to many ill-advised 3 pointers. if i am not he is shooting pretty well on everything aside from 3

  12. nicos

    Before we anoint this as the best defensive team ever- in the last two games both Boston and Portland shot over 48% from the field or more or less the same as we gave up last year. There have been stretches where the defense has been very good but also some poor stretches like the first quarter last night- they’ve definitely had trouble with back screens & sticking with cutters at times but seem to have been able to make adjustments- I do think they’ll get it figured out, however, and wind up an above average defensive team but I don’t see see them as getting anywhere close to those teams of the 90s.

    Also, I think we all agree Chandler doesn’t need to take 20 shots a game but the last two games Gallo’s been chucking at just about the same rate without hitting a thing- if his wrist is bothering him- and you have to think it is- I’m all for giving him a couple of games because he’s pressing in a very bad way at the moment.

  13. latke

    Anybody else notice the knicks didn’t even announce Eddy Curry’s name during the player intros? Beck commented on it in his game recap.

    another pro I’ve noticed about WC beyond the ball handling is the footwork on his drives. Despite the fact that he is going to the rim quite often, I can’t remember a single offensive foul (just one travel), and I’ve noticed on several occasions some nimble side steps. He also has a Jamison-like ability to release the ball at various angles around the rim and put it home.

    You can argue all day about missed and made free throws, but the thing the knicks have the most control over is the plays they do and do not run, and I think it’s evident that the offensive game plan is pretty sad. The fact that we’ve been in the last two games then is indicative of the greatly improved defense and the higher level of offensive talent.

  14. d-mar

    Apropos of nothing, I heard a sports reporter say that the Knicks had 6 back-to-backs in November, which seemed excessive. A random check of some other teams schedules in November and their number of back-to-backs:

    NJ 5
    Boston 3
    Phila. 5
    Wash. 3
    Tor. 3

    I’m sure they all even out by the end, but it’s a rough way to start the season. Hey David Stern, WTF, I thought you wanted the Knicks to do well!

    PS The Knicks Nov. schedule includes 4 games in 5 nights on the road against Den., Sac. GS and the Clips. Ugh.

  15. Z

    latke: Anybody else notice the knicks didn’t even announce Eddy Curry’s name during the player intros?  

    Apparently someone (rightly) assumed that the fans would boo Curry, so he waited in the locker room during the introductions. Who knows whether Curry asked to be exempt from the intros, or if the Knicks didn’t want to taint their ceremony. Either way, it was a win-win.

  16. Ted Nelson

    jaylamerique: i think thats due to him to many ill-advised 3 pointers. if i am not he is shooting pretty well on everything aside from 3  

    That’s not entirely it: If you eliminate his 3PAs altogether, he’s at 55% TS%. That’s solid, not 3 exceptional games the way people are making it seem but it would be a good season for him. However, I don’t think you can just eliminate those shots. He’s going to take some outside shots, otherwise it’s even harder to drive as much as he is. Let’s say he was hitting the 3s he’s taken at 33%. Then his TS% is about 53.4% where it was last season. If he eliminated 4 missed 3s: 53.7%. He could definitely use to eliminate some 3s and hit more of the ones he’s taking. However, another change that he’s need to make for since getting into the league is drawing fouls… He’s averaging 21.6 FGA/36 vs. 2.2 FTA/36… That’s tough to do. He wouldn’t be doing poorly if he fixed the 3-pt problem, but also not *that* well scoring the ball (though only 2 TOs in 3 games is really nice and a bit of a trade-off with the FTAs maybe).

    I also think he could benefit from a better overall offensive strategy, with less focus on iso plays. Some his value does come from his ability to create offense when the Knicks are struggling. However, that shouldn’t be the default offense the way it’s seemed for 3 games. If he gets some more passes on the move to the basket he’ll get some easy looks–a key element of slashing. I don’t understand why the Knicks hardly ever cut to the basket and force so many iso situations. It’s not working and I don’t see why it will start to work. Occasionally Amare and WC can bring value with their iso ability, but it shouldn’t be the first thing the Knicks try to do every possession.

  17. Ted Nelson

    nicos: I do think they’ll get it figured out, however, and wind up an above average defensive team but I don’t see see them as getting anywhere close to those teams of the 90s.

    No, I wouldn’t begin to compare this team to those 90s defenses. However, they’re doing pretty well defensively. A big (huge) improvement over last season (and the last decade or so) so far. It’s fairly insignificant at this point, but they’re 13th defensively and 17th offensively. The Blazers have been the #4 offense so far, and figure to be pretty good all season. Toronto is 19th, probably won’t be very good but should be better offensively than defensively I’d guess. Boston is only 22nd, but finished 15th last season… So against what’s probably a bit better than average group (unless Toronto is just awful, then it’s average-ish) they’re slightly above league average. That’s a nice improvement over last season… I also expected the offensive to improve, but probably when Gallo gets it together and D’Antoni remembers how to coach offense it will.

  18. Ted Nelson

    d-mar: PS The Knicks Nov. schedule includes 4 games in 5 nights on the road against Den., Sac. GS and the Clips. Ugh.  

    Maybe this is why they scheduled their pre-season the way they did with 4 in 5 nights or whatever it was…

    latke: The fact that we’ve been in the last two games then is indicative of the greatly improved defense and the higher level of offensive talent.  

    I think it’s a good point about defense. Offensively, though… it was a lot more efficient last season. Relative to the league it was the same–17th (and maybe there is some warming up phase early in the season–but last season they scored 107.6 pts/100 possessions and this season it’s at 101.1. Given the way WC and Amare have played, I don’t think they have replaced what Harrington and Lee gave the Knicks offensively last season. Not particularly close, IMO. I think that might change, at least from Amare. And Gallo also hasn’t replaced Gallo, which should happen too.

  19. Robert Silverman

    Glad I missed the 2nd half of this one. I would probably have ended up flinging things at my laptop.

    It’s going to be an interesting game v. Orlando. Mozgov/Turiaf will probably both foul out guarding Howard, but they should do better than Lee et al the past few years. Even if Howard has a big game, they key will be Gallo/Chandler/Fields outplaying Lewis/Carter/Pietrus. Stat should have a big game against Bass and Felton needs to clamp down on Nelson, who utterly torched him in the playoffs last year. It’ll be close…Close enough to break our hearts yet again

  20. Thomas B.

    If David Lee was on the team things would be much different. For 1 Aldridge would have scored 47 points. 2) All those blocked shots, yeah kiss those goodbye. 3) Half the posters would now be crying about how we should have got Stat. 4) James STILL wouldn’t be here.

    James aint here. Lee aint here. Accept it people.

    Okay, I’m mostly kidding. But really can we move on and figure out what to do with what we have. I’m tired of the endless looking back. We didnt win with Lee, there was no reason to think we would have won the last two games with Lee. Lee’s game has holes. Not the same holes as Amare’s but holes nonetheless. We likely lose in a new way, which is to say the old way. Putting Lee on this team doesnt help Gallinari’s shooting, or Chandlers decision making (still poor just hidden under the recent improved scoring touch), or Douglas’. With Lee the defense is much worse than it is right now.

    Portland and Boston are very good teams. Even with a lead it is hard to win a game against teams like that. Now had we lost to the Raptors, we have a big problem. But losses to likely playoff teams that have been together for some time, I’m not jumping off the BQE for that.

    New clubs need some time. 79 games left.

  21. ess-dog

    I know Wilson has looked good and everyone is loving him… but his TS% is .503 through 3 games. He and Stat are costing the Knicks games by forcing shots just as much as they’re carrying the offense on their backs.  

    I think a lot of players are still working out the kinks in their shot this early in the season. I’d also like to hope that the shot selection will improve (that means besides WC and stat laying off shots, guys like Fields and TD should look for more shots as well.)

    I’m actually quite surprised that D’Antoni didn’t draw up a play that swung out to Walker for a three on that last possession. He seemed pretty hot, wasn’t that heavily guarded and it would’ve given us the lead.

    I don’t have a lot of hope against Orlando, but hey, you never know. If they’re cold from three we could steal one.

  22. ess-dog

    Whoops that first paragraph is ted’s quote…

    I begrudgingly agree that, rationally speaking, both Boston and Portland are top 3 teams in their respective conferences and yes, we should be losing to them even on good nights, but that last one still stung. It really is a moral victory (sigh) I just hope the team can stay focused and positive.

  23. hoolahoop

    Chandler – For those that are ragging are Chandler because of your statistical analysis, did you actually watch the game? He kept the sicks alive. Several times the sicks were scattered and confused and he attacked offensively, often bailing them out of a 24 second clocking winding down.

    3’s – It’s not only that they were missing 3-point shots. They were missing wide-open three’s.

  24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Yes. We watched the game. He’s still taking a ton of terrible 3-pointers and hoisting the ball up like it’s a contract year. Which it is.

  25. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Chandler – For those that are ragging are Chandler because of your statistical analysis, did you actually watch the game? He kept the sicks alive. Several times the sicks were scattered and confused and he attacked offensively, often bailing them out of a 24 second clocking winding down.
    3?s – It’s not only that they were missing 3-point shots. They were missing wide-open three’s.  

    This is my point as well, I think sometimes the advance statistic guys just go on an absurd tangent. WC has been the best player through 3 games and if his TS% isn’t showing that, well then that stat is invalid, he’s CARRYING the team when Amare is off the court. He’s averaging over 20 without starting. His rebounds and blocks are huge this year. He’s come way up and I mean pointing at a weak TS% with everything that guy has been doing is like going to Barry Bonds during his 73 home run season and criticizing his bunting ability. The guy is doing it, on both sides of the floor and better than anyone else we have right now (except Amare, who honestly I think just needs to start getting the ball in better position). I think that Gallo being cold as ice is forcing EVERYONE into worse shots. He’s either unable to make the shot or he’s on the bench with both resulting in teams not concerned with our perimeter shooting. I think that any TS% problems at this point are related to him being forced to occasionally take bad shots because lets face it. Right now is there anyone other than WC and Amare that you want to take a bad shot? And when I’m saying that keep in mind, i’m not advocating bad shots. I’m saying that when nobody is moving around and getting in position for a good shot, thn someone is going to end up taking a bad one. And if someone has to take a bad shot right now, i’d rather it was WC.

    Either way if there is anything that is NOT killing the Knicks right now, it’s WC.

  26. Spree8nyk8

    And I guess all I’m saying with the advanced stats thing is this. Against Portland WC had 22pts 16rebs 2 steals 3 blocks and only 1 turnover. If he took a couple of bad shots, then so what. With that statline I just don’t see how you can say he is the one killing the knicks right now.

  27. Brian Cronin

    If David Lee was on the team things would be much different. For 1 Aldridge would have scored 47 points. 2) All those blocked shots, yeah kiss those goodbye. 3) Half the posters would now be crying about how we should have got Stat. 4) James STILL wouldn’t be here.

    James aint here. Lee aint here. Accept it people.

    Okay, I’m mostly kidding. But really can we move on and figure out what to do with what we have. I’m tired of the endless looking back. We didnt win with Lee, there was no reason to think we would have won the last two games with Lee. Lee’s game has holes. Not the same holes as Amare’s but holes nonetheless. We likely lose in a new way, which is to say the old way. Putting Lee on this team doesnt help Gallinari’s shooting, or Chandlers decision making (still poor just hidden under the recent improved scoring touch), or Douglas’. With Lee the defense is much worse than it is right now.

    The only references to Lee in the comments before you was Robert talking about how Mozgov/Turiaf would do better on Howard than Lee and Ted responding to someone saying that the Knicks currently have a “higher level of offensive talent,” which, as he notes, so far has not been evident in the games.

    So I’m not seeing the “endless looking back.”

    The complaints have been about this year’s team.

  28. Brian Cronin

    And I guess all I’m saying with the advanced stats thing is this. Against Portland WC had 22pts 16rebs 2 steals 3 blocks and only 1 turnover. If he took a couple of bad shots, then so what. With that statline I just don’t see how you can say he is the one killing the knicks right now.

    A. It would be nicer if it were only a couple.

    B. WC is certainly far from the problem with the team.

    B. The problem is that since WC has had to carry the team at times due to Gallo’s uselessness, the team really isn’t being helped too much due to his inefficient scoring (same with Amar’e’s ineffecient scoring). Of course, the biggest problem with this team is Gallo being useless, not WC and Amar’e being inefficient scorers. But their inefficient scoring is preventing the Knicks from overcoming Gallo’s uselessness.

  29. BigBlueAL

    Brian, I assume he was referring to last thread or two where I believe there was more Amar’e and Lee talk in regards to Amar’e and his poor offense so far.

  30. Thomas B.

    Brian Cronin:
    The only references to Lee in the comments before you was Robert talking about how Mozgov/Turiaf would do better on Howard than Lee and Ted responding to someone saying that the Knicks currently have a “higher level of offensive talent,” which, as he notes, so far has not been evident in the games.
    So I’m not seeing the “endless looking back.”The complaints have been about this year’s team.   

    I was looking at the overall amare/lee debate that began and still goes on around the time Amare was signed. Also, there was something at the very top of this thread about that. So i figured it was fair game. I’m not limited to just today’s posts am I?

  31. Ted Nelson

    Thomas B.: James aint here. Lee aint here. Accept it people.

    I know you’re mostly kidding, but most of the conversation has not been about who would be better to have than Amare. It’s been about how Amare could be used more effectively. Amare has played crappy offense through 3 games, people also have to accept that… (He is clearly not a crappy offensive player, so something has to change.)

    Thomas B.: Putting Lee on this team doesnt help Gallinari’s shooting, or Chandlers decision making (still poor just hidden under the recent improved scoring touch), or Douglas’.

    I’m not trying to say anything about wanting Lee back, but putting a great passer on this team actually might help other players find better shots that they can make at a higher %.

    hoolahoop: For those that are ragging are Chandler because of your statistical analysis, did you actually watch the game?

    I did watch the game… The point is that other people could have taken those same shots and possibly hit a higher %. There are 5 guys on the court for the Knicks at any one time. The point is that when he drove and drew the defense he could have kicked the ball to someone else. The point is that if the Knicks’ offensive strategy was to move instead of stand around WC might have gotten easier looks. The point is that he doesn’t need to be taking 9 3PAs in a game. No one is “ragging on” WC. Did you actually read the comments?

    You did see that they lose the game, right?

    Spree8nyk8: if his TS% isn’t showing that, well then that stat is invalid,

    What are you talking about? I didn’t even bother reading that comment beyond this point. Do you know what TS% is or how it’s calculated?

    Spree8nyk8: And I guess all I’m saying with the advanced stats thing is this. Against Portland WC had 22pts 16rebs 2 steals 3 blocks and only 1 turnover. If he took a couple of bad shots, then so what. With that statline I just don’t see how you can say he is the one killing the knicks right now.  

    I guess what I’m saying is… 22 points came on about 25 possessions used (22 FGAs, 4 FTAs, and 1 TO). He scored less than 1 point on each possession he used. He could have passed the ball and someone else could have shot the ball. 22 points is completely meaningless if you don’t put context around it like usage. If a guy takes a ton of shots and doesn’t make many of them, he’s not helping your team.

    Brian Cronin: the biggest problem with this team is Gallo being useless

    It’s a big problem, but it’s not like Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, and Bill Walker aren’t capable of picking up the slack.

  32. GAx

    Pointing at the sort of shots Wilson’s forced to put up sometimes is really getting nitpicky when there are a lot more things of consequence to worry about. I love how he’s playing now that he’s not having to play hurt like he did all last year, and he showed his improvement starting from preseason and hasn’t really stopped yet.

    Nevertheless, it looks like the Knicks aren’t going to extend him so…let’s hope he really wants to stay with NY next summer.

  33. GAx

    Ted Nelson:
    The point is that other people could have taken those same shots and possibly hit a higher %. There are 5 guys on the court for the Knicks at any one time. The point is that when he drove and drew the defense he could have kicked the ball to someone else. The point is that if the Knicks’ offensive strategy was to move instead of stand around WC might have gotten easier looks. The point is that he doesn’t need to be taking 9 3PAs in a game. No one is “ragging on” WC. Did you actually read the comments?You did see that they lose the game, right?
    What are you talking about? I didn’t even bother reading that comment beyond this point. Do you know what TS% is or how it’s calculated?I guess what I’m saying is… 22 points came on about 25 possessions used (22 FGAs, 4 FTAs, and 1 TO). He scored less than 1 point on each possession he used.   

    I think he asked if you watched the game because it’s not like he’s Allen Iverson out there. He’s taking shots that come to him mostly in the flow of the game. The 9 3pa’s are a bit much for anyone not named Ray Allen, but many times during the course of the game he’d get it with 4 seconds left on the shot clock, or with nobody moving to or without the ball, or(perhaps more unforgivably) he was really really hot. Criticizing Will for shooting too much is like criticizing Amare for trying to pretend he has any handles at all while starting out from 20ft out. It lays more at the feet of the total offensive system’s than theirs. Without Wilson’s game where it’s at right now, we’re not even in a position to win these games, let alone have kept it as close as we did.

    Ted Nelson: It’s a big problem, but it’s not like Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, and Bill Walker aren’t capable of picking up the slack.  

    Not saying they aren’t, but I’m still waiting for all the guys you just listed(except for Fields, how can you not love that guy)deliver on the promise that they showed in preseason. Until they do, let’s just keep riding Amare and Wil.

    BTW, apologies if this post comes out all wacked. We can’t edit posts and this quote function doesn’t seem to be working right for me.

  34. BigBlueAL

    “Nevertheless, it looks like the Knicks aren’t going to extend him so…let’s hope he really wants to stay with NY next summer.”

    Im assuming the Knicks dont mind if Chandler (and his cap number) leaves next season as long as he is replaced by Melo.

  35. BigBlueAL

    Sorry for being an ass but I have to point this out lol. Its early in the 4th quarter of the expected Lakers domination of Golden St tonight and so far David Lee has 0 pts, 3 rebs, 2 asts and 5 to’s.

  36. Brian Cronin

    Sorry for being an ass but I have to point this out lol. Its early in the 4th quarter of the expected Lakers domination of Golden St tonight and so far David Lee has 0 pts, 3 rebs, 2 asts and 5 to’s.

    See, you get this and then it’s “why do you guys keep talking about Lee?”

    And I am not saying that you shouldn’t take shots at Lee, I really don’t care. Just that if people keep taking shots at Lee vis a vis Amar’e, how can it draw anything but a response about Lee?

    I assure you, if people quit talking about how dramatically improved the team is with Amar’e over Lee, then I (and I presume Ted) will stop talking about Lee. All the Amar’e/Lee talk is based on folks continuing to be, “Wow, what a great dunk by Amar’e! The Knicks sure are better now that we have a finisher!”

    If you don’t want Lee talk, don’t throw the bait out there.

    If you want to keep talking Lee, though, I have no problem with it. Just don’t act like we’re dragging out the past when you get the “man, the Knicks are so much better with a closer on the court!” stuff. It reminds me of last year with, “Man, Nate’s lame.” (Response to shot at Nate) “Why is there so much talk about Nate?”

    ETA: And yeah, sorry, Al, I don’t mean to say you specifically. Your response was just an example of the general tenor of “Let’s not talk about Lee…until we talk about Lee and then if you respond it’s back to ‘Let’s not talk about Lee.'” because your comment came right after you said how much you liked Thomas’ “Let’s not talk about Lee” comment.

  37. BigBlueAL

    LOL hey I havent said anything about Lee vs Amar’e since the season started. I stopped with this debate during the summer when it was a worthy discussion to have because as has been mentioned it really is over with now and it should be just about the current team and players moving forward.

    I admit I brought up Lee’s stats tonight because I was watching the game praying Kobe and Odom didnt combine for too many points so my team would win its first game in my fantasy basketball league lol. Thanfully they didnt and I won my first game 4-3 (head-to-head rotisserie format) btw if anyone cares which Im sure you dont :-)

  38. Ted Nelson

    GAx: Pointing at the sort of shots Wilson’s forced to put up sometimes is really getting nitpicky when there are a lot more things of consequence to worry about.

    He used about 25% of the Knicks possessions… There aren’t too many things more important than what happens with 1 in 4 possessions. If the Knicks could have scored 27 points on the 25 or so possessions WC used instead of 22 points, they win the game.

    GAx: he showed his improvement starting from preseason and hasn’t really stopped yet.

    I would say he has stopped, because his TS% is at .503… which is abysmal. He’s playing well overall, but it’s two steps forward, one step back.

    GAx: I think he asked if you watched the game because it’s not like he’s Allen Iverson out there.

    I would say he was pretty close to Allen Iverson. It was not me who said he looked a lot like Al Harrington, which is both a good and bad thing. When he touched the ball it usually meant a shot was coming, no matter how much time was on the clock and what kind of look he got. Since he’s scoring at an awful efficiency… that it Iverson for you.

    GAx: It lays more at the feet of the total offensive system’s than theirs.

    Considering how much the two of them shoot, they basically ARE the offensive system. That said, I have been very critical of D’Antoni if you bother to read my comments before criticizing them.

    GAx: Without Wilson’s game where it’s at right now, we’re not even in a position to win these games, let alone have kept it as close as we did.

    You can’t say that. His overall contribution has been great, but his scoring has not. For every time he got the ball with 4 seconds on the clock, there were two times he got the ball with 20 seconds on the clock and forced a shot. You cannot tell me that Fields, Douglas, Walker, Amare, etc. could not have scored at a higher efficiency with a few passes from Chandler than Chandler did with all those forced shots… I’m not saying he should stop shooting, just that he should incorporate himself into the offense more.

    GAx: I’m still waiting for all the guys you just listed(except for Fields, how can you not love that guy)deliver on the promise that they showed in preseason

    Douglas is scoring 15 pts/36 at a .546 TS% (.554 eFG%). He’s been scoring it. Walker had a couple of cold games, but he was stroking it against Portland. He was 3-5.

    Fields, Douglas, and Walker combined to have 31 pts on 29 possessions, while Chandler and Amare combined for about 40 pts on 50 possessions… We were riding Fields, Douglas, and Walker, not WC and Amare. Those 3 are more the reason the Knicks were in the game *scoring wise*. Of course, Amare and WC made big contributions defensive and on the boards.

  39. Ted Nelson

    Ted Nelson: If the Knicks could have scored 27 points on the 25 or so possessions WC used instead of 22 points, they win the game.

    *27 overtime, 28 win

    Brian Cronin: I assure you, if people quit talking about how dramatically improved the team is with Amar’e over Lee, then I (and I presume Ted) will stop talking about Lee. All the Amar’e/Lee talk is based on folks continuing to be, “Wow, what a great dunk by Amar’e! The Knicks sure are better now that we have a finisher!”

    Good point.

  40. BigBlueAL

    Yeah I know Brian, again the only reason I knew about Lee’s stat line tonight honestly was because as I said I was actually watching the game til it was obvious Odom/Kobe were done playing early in the 4th quarter and knowing how much David Lee is still brought up around here I couldnt resist throwing another log on the fire sort to speak by not mentioning his stats tonight. I didnt realize he was actual scoreless until the end right before I was almost ready to stop watching the game because the Lakers broadcast brought it up that he was scoreless in the game while showing him sitting on the bench during the 4th quarter.

    I admittedly have been a sort of Lee basher in the past so I wont plead innocent on that but again you can look back and see I havent been a part of any of the still on-going debates because as I mentioned Im tired of being a part of them. Doesnt mean though I dont still enjoy reading about them :-)

  41. Brian Cronin

    We were riding Fields, Douglas, and Walker, not WC and Amare.

    It drove me nuts when D’Antoni went away from Fields for so long in the fourth quarter, then throws him out there cold with 3 minutes left.

    I am already at the point where I’d prefer to see Douglas playing in crunch time over Felton. Playing them together (which D’Antoni did) is a decent compromise, but if I had to choose who I’d rather have out there, I’d go with Douglas.

  42. GAx

    Ted. Wow.

    Normally I love to debate and talk Knicks and basketball but I don’t have the energy to respond right now. Maybe later. For now let’s try to combine your points so I don’t have to go line-by-line POTUS-style.

    25%? I guess that means the offensive system isn’t working as trimly as we’d like it, which is what I said and meant by “laying it at the offensive system’s feet”. I’m not white-knighting Chandler or D’antoni here, so, uh, I guess we agree there then? I don’t know. And because I don’t respond to literally every line doesn’t mean I didn’t read or understand your post. Let’s not be passive aggressive here.

    Another reason why I think we’re being overly critical of Chandler here is pointing at his TS% whilst juxtaposing others’ per/36 is a little dishonest and not very fruitful. Any player who’s usage is that high and who the other team keys in on since they’re hurting them will suffer in that respect. I hope you don’t pull some Greek God of efficiency and usage out like Kevin Martin because that’s when the comparisons become even more forced and unfair, unless we’ve all agreed that he’s now in THAT class of player. Wilson Chandler. Who Portland didn’t want in exchange for Rudy friggin Fernandez. I wholeheartedly think too many people have slept on Wil for this year, but let’s not go there just yet. Sure I think he could stand to pass more. Everyone on this team can. We still stagnate too often.

    That’s why we end up standing around when Felton shovels it off to Amare a step in from the 3-point line. But though I had higher hopes for Douglas and Walker after their preseasons, watching them ingame as well as using their box scores should show you why D’antoni hasn’t leaned on them too much just yet. They’ll get there, but in the games we’ve played they haven’t proven they should get the ball as much as Chandler. Walker just last game redeemed himself with the three-bombs and driving with more control, but the first two games weren’t very encouraging. I have Douglas on my fantasy team, that’s how much I believed he could contribute, but now I cringe whenever he pulls up for 3. He’s been shooting it from there almost 1 out of 2 times he shoots with way less results than Chandler. Fields I already said I love so not sure why you included him. So I guess if you assert I can’t say they wouldn’t do a better, more efficient job than Wilson has been doing, I’d return that one couldn’t say the opposite with too much conviction.

    Shit now I’M writing a novel so I’ll just end it with this. That last stat you used where you compared pts/possession really is a fallacy. No disrespect, but I’d be hard pressed to imagine if we’d featured those three on offense equally or more as we’ve used Chandler and Amare in our offensive “sets” that we’d have uncovered some efficient point scoring dynamic trio. Walker heat checks from 3 more than anyone on the team. Douglas needs to focus more on playmaking and penetrating than shooting bombs. Fields..I love you Fields. You’re doing just fine you adorable rookie you. Who knows. Maybe Coach sees what you see and he’ll start diverting the ball their way and we start a winning streak. In my opinion, however, things have gone the way they have for a reason. Again, not saying that I’m perfectly content with the way Wilson and Amare have played, but let’s not get too crazy with the criticism just yet, which was all I was saying in my original post.

    Goddamit this is the longest post I’ve ever done here.

  43. Brian Cronin

    I admittedly have been a sort of Lee basher in the past so I wont plead innocent on that but again you can look back and see I havent been a part of any of the still on-going debates because as I mentioned Im tired of being a part of them

    That’s right, you did. And that’s actually a great example of what I was saying before. When you stopped talking about him during the Summer, we stopped talking about him! The same thing will happen now if people quit bringing him up through the “Man, Amar’e is so much better than what we had last year!” stuff.

  44. GAx

    Let’s just agree to stop talking about not talking about it. Though thank god I didn’t need a big night from Lee to win my first week of fantasy basketball either.

    Hold on forget I said that. Hey! Baby otters! What’s up with that?

  45. Ted Nelson

    Brian Cronin: The same thing will happen now if people quit bringing him up through the “Man, Amar’e is so much better than what we had last year!” stuff.  

    Especially when he’s not actually playing better offensively and people comment on his scoring ability. When he drops 40 points on 18 shots to go with 12 reb and 3 blks and the Knicks crush in a win (which I fully expect to happen at some point)… then I don’t have much of a problem with it, though I might say something still. The point is that he’s been struggling offensively yet people are saying “no one on the Knicks was that good at scoring last season…” Which is simply not true at this point. I certainly expect/hope that by the end of the season we can say that no 09-10 Knicks scored the ball as well as Amare. If not it may be a long season and a long 5 years.

    GAx: And because I don’t respond to literally every line doesn’t mean I didn’t read or understand your post. Let’s not be passive aggressive here.

    You came out critical of the “WC bashing” (which I don’t think I’m doing at all, just putting things into perspective) and then you say “it’s the offense’s fault.” I’ve been saying it’s the offense’s fault for like 50 posts… A bit frustrating when someone uses the same argument you’ve been making to tell you that your argument is wrong. It’s not a personal against WC. The offense is underperforming and he’s taking 1/4 of the offensive possessions. Yet you said it’s not of consequence… I disagree.

    GAx: Any player who’s usage is that high and who the other team keys in on since they’re hurting them will suffer in that respect.

    That is simply not true. There is not a direct trade-off between usage and efficiency. Instead of pointing out all the high usage/high efficiency guys out there or that WC has never had an efficient season period, how about this? Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen never shoot/shot the ball, and still very low efficiency players.

    GAx: I hope you don’t pull some Greek God of efficiency and usage out like Kevin Martin because that’s when the comparisons become even more forced and unfair, unless we’ve all agreed that he’s now in THAT class of player.

    If he’s not that class of player why is he talking so many shots? If you’re not a great scorer, pass the damn ball. I don’t think this is a fair argument at all. Whether or not he IS that class of player, he’s ACTING LIKE he is. That’s where the criticism comes from. He’s acting like he’s LeBron freaking James. Let’s run an offense instead of giving Wilson Chandler the green light to shoot every time he touches the ball. Clearly the green light approach isn’t working.

    GAx: They’ll get there, but in the games we’ve played they haven’t proven they should get the ball as much as Chandler.

    Again, Douglas has 15 pts/36 at an efficiency of about 55% TS%. Walker is a career 42% 3-pt shooter. Douglas shot 39% from 3 on more 3PA/36 last season. These are shooters that you let shoot their way out of a slump. You don’t have the career 30.6% 3P shooter taking 9 3PA in a game. Wilson Chandler is shooting his way into a slump.

    I don’t really understand your point… basically, you are ok with Wilson Chandler shooting 22 FGA/36 at a TS% of .503??? If not, why are you arguing with me? The Knicks can’t win if this continues to happen. Their offense is shooting them in the foot and Wilson Chandler is part of the problem. If he knocks out some of the forced shots that are driving down his %, the Knicks will find higher % shots. This will help both the Knicks and Chandler individually.

    GAx: That last stat you used where you compared pts/possession really is a fallacy. No disrespect, but I’d be hard pressed to imagine if we’d featured those three on offense equally or more as we’ve used Chandler and Amare in our offensive “sets” that we’d have uncovered some efficient point scoring dynamic trio.

    The point I’ve been making for several days and countless posts is that THE KNICKS NEED TO PLAY OFFENSE. Not stand around and isolate their best scorers to go 1-on-5. This is an argument you’re also making. Do you not see why I’m so frustrated?

    The point is not to take the shots WC and Amare are taking and give them all to one guy or two guys or three guys. The point is to spread them around. It would be very tough to spread them around and end up with worse results. WC has a .503 TS%. Amare has a .533 TS%. By moving the ball and not forcing shots, their TS%s will go up, while the offense as a whole finds better shots than the forced 1-on-5 drives.

    You can’t argue that the Knicks offensive strategy needs to improve and also that WC and Amare are doing well. By hi-jacking the offense for all their iso plays, WC and Amare (and maybe D’Antoni and maybe Felton) are making it impossible to run coherent offensive sets. If Amare especially is the leader everyone says he is, instead of saying “hey everyone is standing around like idiots so I’ll take the ball from the 3 pt line and pretend I’m LeBron James…” he should tell his teammates to start moving themselves and the ball to find good shots.

    GAx: let’s not get too crazy with the criticism just yet

    I don’t think I’m getting “all crazy with the criticism.” Wilson Chandler cannot take that many shots. Seems pretty obvious given his .503 TS%. People are revering him as a hero, but I think the lack of efficiency puts things in a different context. There are shots he and Amare take and times they drive into 3 defenders of take a long J when I know the outcome with about 90% certainty before it happens… those are the shots they need to eliminate, especially when they come with tons of time on the shot clock. Instead of taking so many bloody shots, pass the ball. It’s that simple. Just because you passed the ball to Toney Douglas or Bill Walker and he missed one shot or four shots even, doesn’t mean he’ll miss the next one. In fact, given how well they both shoot the ball, chances are they will not miss the next one. Long-term they need to actually run an offense and not rely on WC and Amare to do everything off the dribble in isolation sets. Perhaps they can just “out-talent” the Raptors of the world, but the Raptors are predicted to finish near the bottom of the EC.

    This becomes even more true late in the games when the defense knows WC or Amare is going to shoot… and guess what? They do shoot. When you have 3 defenders on you, 2 of your teammates are necessarily open.

  46. Thomas B.

    I don’t really mind talking about Lee. Though I found it a bit strange that the very first comment in the Knicks Raptors recap was about what Lee did in the Golden State opener (which really was nothing more than a live game of NBA Jam Tournament Ed.) :-)

    I don’t think Amare is a dramatic improvement over Lee. I think its a push to slight edge for Amare’ depending on style of play. But I think with Amare’ you can wonder about winning, with Lee you know you wont win. I was ready for a change in the style of play. The style has changed, they results well….

  47. Frank

    So we’re 1-2 after playing one team we should beat and two teams we would not be surprised losing to. So I think it’s not so bad right now.

    That being said – there appears to be a major offensive problem on this team. I’m no basketball coach and I must admit that there are probably plays going on that I can’t see with my eyes — but it sure does look like 1-on-1 over and over again. There MUST be a better way to play. I really don’t want to hear that teams are taking away the pick and roll. PHX ran it just about every single play. Orlando ran it 90% of the time against Cleveland with Turkoglu and Howard. D’Antoni has to figure out a way to get a player he called the best dive man in the league the ball on the move towards the hoop.

    The lack of 3 point shooting on this team is the other thing that is killing us. Presumably Gallo is hurt and that is why he sucks right now — but if we are relying on Wilson Chandler to be our main 3-ball threat, we are in serious trouble.

    Re: Chandler — he’s basically playing the same way he did at the start of last season, just shooting more. By December someone told him to stop shooting 5 3’s a game and he became much more efficient. Love his D and rebounding though.

  48. Spree8nyk8

    I’m redownloading the Portland game to see WC’s inefficiency again. Maybe you’re right so I’ll at least take a look. Although going off how I remember the game I think he took a few shots that I’d classify as “not great” and I think a few others he was forced to take “not great” shots. I mean I’m not sure how it falls on WC if he’s receiving a pass with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock, I mean I guess he could just NOT SHOOT and then his numbers would be better.

    Like I said before, until the offense starts having a better flow to it, there is going to be a high amount of poor shots. So if someone is going to have to take one of those shots I’d personally like to have Amare or WC taking them, because they have been the best scorers. I just really think that at this point, ten new guys, brand new season. Everyone learning everyone else, expecting efficiency is a bit ridiculous. But hey, that’s just me.

    Anyway I’ll go back and look. Maybe you are more correct than I’m giving you credit for. But I’m going to chart it myself and see.

  49. hoolahoop

    Ted, I understand where you’re coming from. No one gets more frustrated than me at poor shot selection. However, your statistical analysis is flawed because it does take into account the “human element”. Consequently, your understanding is incomplete.
    For example, Suppose Wilson Chandler was on the floor with you, me, and three other guys from this forum. Every time one of us touched the ball we’d get smothered and stripped of the ball. At minimum, we’d be hard pressed to score. Consequently, we’d all look to WC to pass to and pray he’d do something positive. However, because his supporting cast sucks (us) he’d be forced to take tough shots. His TO% would be poor.

    Now imagine someone analyzing the game suggesting WC should be passing more to us guys because his TO% wasn’t good. That would be a ludicrous.

  50. Z

    @51 Not that Ted needs any help explaining his theories, but I think his point is exactly that. IF Chandler was the best shooter on the team, then fine, let him chuck it 22 times a game while the team goes and loses more games than the ’73 Sixers. But Chandler’s not playing with 4 Knickerbloggers out there. He’s playing with 4 NBA players who are in reality BETTER shooters than he is. Ted thinks that the successful teams have success because they have their best shooters shoot more and their worse shooters shoot less. It’s a pretty simple point that is hard to argue against.

    The “human element” at play is the REASON poor shooters shoot a lot. In this case it is that a human (Mike D’Antoni) wants him to chuck it. Chandler said this on October 23rd, right before preseason ended: “Coach says I pass up a lot of shots. That’s the biggest part. The confidence to take shots.”

    D’Antoni’s job is, essentially, to encourage the good shooters to shoot and the poor shooters to pass to the good shooters. But coach doesn’t seem to care who’s shooting, where their shooting from, or how much time is on the clock when the shot goes up. All he really cares about is whether the shot is going into his basket or the opponents. He really doesn’t like the latter.

  51. Ted Nelson

    Well said in 52, Z.

    Frank: The lack of 3 point shooting on this team is the other thing that is killing us.

    I think it will turn around. There are a bunch of good shooters on the squad.

    Spree8nyk8: Like I said before, until the offense starts having a better flow to it, there is going to be a high amount of poor shots.

    A bunch of us have been saying this for days… I don’t see why you say, “you guys are wrong” and then make the exact same argument we’ve been making to prove we’re wrong…

    Spree8nyk8: I’d personally like to have Amare or WC taking them, because they have been the best scorers

    They have not been… They have scored the most, not the best. You are probably a huge Allen Iverson fan, no?

    hoolahoop: Now imagine someone analyzing the game suggesting WC should be passing more to us guys because his TO% wasn’t good. That would be a ludicrous.  

    Your comparison is “ludicrous…” The Knicks have a talented NBA team. I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say??? The Knicks players not named Wilson Chandler are no better than you and I?

  52. hoolahoop

    Ted, Z: Yeah, you’re right if the Knicks were a good team. And that’s my point. The knicks suck. Gallo was ice cold, couldn’t hit beyond the arc, 15 feet out or 5 feet from the rim. If he’s hurt that bad he shouldn’t be playing, but that’s another topic. And no one else was much better. Seeing Tony Douglas against Portland, I thought I was watching a bad version of Marbury. Felton, c’mon. I don’t know if he’s better than Duhon. I do know he’s not in the same league as S. Nash (oh yeah, they are in the same league). You get my point These guys played like dog doo.

    Against Portland, WC made positive things happen. He kept them in the game.
    Every season, all the fans are optimistic and hopeful, and overestimate the talent of the team. I don’t know how old you guys are, but I’ve been watching this team a long, long time. I’m not fooled.

  53. Z

    Fair enough, hoolahoop. If Chandler is the best shooter on the floor, then he should take the most shots. It’s not a wonder they lost, though, and if he continues to take the most shots, the Knicks are going to be losing a lot. Hopefully Donnie Walsh didn’t gut the team, trade away kids and the picks, and rebuild the team from the bottom up, just to have Wilson Chandler lead the team in FG attempts.

  54. hoolahoop

    Z: … Hopefully Donnie Walsh didn’t gut the team, trade away kids and the picks, and rebuild the team from the bottom up, just to have Wilson Chandler lead the team in FG attempts.  

    Z, Agreed, but please tell me where exactly are the knicks going? Donnie Walsh is certainly not the charismatic elder statesman that lures top talent to the greatest stage. Rightfully, he gutted the team to start from scratch to build cap space and hopefully reel in Lebron. Unfortunately, every other GM in the league had the same brainstorm. I think Donnie Walsh shot his load.
    I get pissed off when I look around the league at other teams that were as hopeless as the knicks and have turned it around (Heat, Bulls, Celtics, Hawks, Thunder, Hornets, Grizzlies…and soon the Nets).
    Blame starts at the top. Dolan has destroyed the franchise.

  55. Ted Nelson

    hoolahoop: The knicks suck.

    Ok… I disagree.

    hoolahoop: I don’t know how old you guys are, but I’ve been watching this team a long, long time. I’m not fooled.

    If you don’t remember when they were a good team you can’t be all that old or have been watching them for a long time. You know… they have won 2 championships and made a couple other finals trips.

    Again… I think you are wrong that the talent on this team “sucks” as you so eloquently put it. We’ll get to see as their careers progress.

    hoolahoop: please tell me where exactly are the knicks going?

    You are a real pessimist, huh? They have a brand new team with a lot of young talent, cap space going forward, one of the best scorers in the NBA, a much improved defense… I can’t tell you exactly where they’re going, but I am optimistic it’s a good place.

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