Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, April 23, 2014

Around the Mainstreamosphere

Not everyone in the mainstream thinks ‘Melo to the Knicks is a great idea.

If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony’s $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire — which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

In many ways, it would be more advantageous to Anthony and the Knicks to unite via free agency. For one, Walsh wouldn’t have to give up any pieces of a young nucleus that has shown promise at times this season. For another, a max free-agent deal that presumably will start a few million shy of the $18.5 million Anthony is on the books for next season would help the Knicks add to the roster over the next two years.

Which brings us to another fallacy in the Melo-mania that has engulfed New York. There are those blabbing on the radio, scribbling in print, and yakking away in taxicabs all over the city who believe the Knicks would be a championship-caliber team simply by pairing Anthony with Stoudemire — regardless of how many players they had to give up. These people are beyond hope.

Does the Post’s Marc Berman remind you of that guy that can’t help but talk about all his ex-girlfriends, even though everyone is already sick of hearing about them?

Thomas was asked point-blank by radio host Sid Rosenberg if he’s advising Dolan, specifically on Anthony.

“The conversations I have with any of my friends are always private and confidential,” Thomas said. “The conversations I have with friends and people that I know, those are private conversations.”

What higher form of journalism is there other than quoting sports talk radio? Harlan Schrieber of the well hidden HoopsAnalyst weighs in on the best SG debate:

1. Michael Jordan: Safely ensconced ahead of Kobe

2. Kobe Bryant: Vaulted Drexler a while ago but needs a remarkable few years still to get to MJ

3. Clyde Drexler: Always underrated, a truly great player

4. Dwyane Wade: This might be a little high so far but he is in the picture for second two guard of All-Time

5. Ray Allen: Model of consistency

6. Reggie Miller: Ditto

7. Manu Ginobili: Manu is better than both Allen and Miller but had a later start to his NBA career and might not catch them

8. Tracy McGrady: I know he’s been done for awhile but the first half of his career counts too. Was as good or better than Kobe until about 2004

9. Vince Carter: He earned some of the vilification in Toronto but was a legitimately great player

10. Allen Iverson: AI was a scoring machine but overrated since he fit so poorly in most schemes and was a real pain to coach most of the time.

I’d say that Kobe has zero chance in catching Jordan, and that T-Mac & Iverson would have to be dropped off the list. Mark Price seems to be a glaring omission. Not sure who would be my 10th guy though. Maybe Gervin who had some nice seasons late in his career.

Funniest line in re-cap of the game goes to P&T:

I’d just like to share that I’m writing this at around 3 AM and Ronny Turiaf just played ping pong with his mom and is currently eating chicken and pasta with his dog. Twitter, guys.

75 comments on “Around the Mainstreamosphere

  1. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    You know what’s strange? A significant number of the nation’s sportwriters are incendiary, bull-headed, and idiotic, and many of us believe that they are as such simply to maximize page hits or visibility (Skip Bayless, anyone?).

    Wouldn’t it benefit their careers to be counter-intuitive, to say things about player value that most of the mouth-breathers don’t agree with?

  2. Nick C.

    I always thought Jerry West was considered a 2 for purposes of such discussions, it looks like a post merger list or really a post full expansion list. Gervin, even Earl Monroe, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson pop up as being possibilities.

    Nice to see not everyone believes the hype of the Stephen A. Smith crowd.

    How funny was that Zeke snippet. Was that followed up? Why the hell was anyone talking to Isiah then? I mean the last times he was in the news was when Amare denied ever talking with him after Dolan forced DW to credit Isiah at the signing press conference and before, to have to be told “no you can’t be hired as consultant of an NBA team and get paid to coach a college team,” and that unfortunate incident involving an ambulance himself and perhaps his daughter.

  3. Brian Cronin

    As for Isiah, if he is, indeed, advising Dolan, then I think he’s definitely someone we should be thinking about (mostly in a “oh man, how is he going to screw us now?” sense, but still).

  4. Frank

    Re: Stephen A Smith – he comes off a bit as a blowhard and I don’t necessarily agree with most of what he says — but credit must be given – a few weeks before the “Decision”, he had it right and everyone thought he was crazy. Guy must have some real sources. I’d believe his sources way before Chris “Lebron’s going to the Bulls or Nets” Broussard.

  5. Nick C.

    As far as LeBron and Stephen A. Smith being correct I prefer to think of that as blind squirrel finding a nut/broken clock correct twice a day. :-)

  6. Frank

    Nick C.: As far as LeBron and Stephen A. Smith being correct I prefer to think of that as blind squirrel finding a nut/broken clock correct twice a day. :-)  

    Well – considering Chris Broussard’s, Chad Ford’s etc. squirrel and clock still haven’t been right, I’d go with SAS!

  7. Nick C.

    I wasn’t saying they or anyone was better just that SAS is an idiot who is ranting that essentially if they don’t get Carmelo DW is a failure. He almost sounds like a shill for Isiah, for whom IIRC he was an apologist right to the bitter end.

  8. Tyler Murray

    I’d love to wait until FA for Melo, but O’Connor apparently has a source who says:

    “Melo wants to be a Knick, he’s let everyone know that, and now the Knicks have to do their part. I still think it’s 80-20 that he ends up in New York in a trade. But if Melo doesn’t get traded, he’s going to be very upset and I don’t think he ever plays for the Knicks.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=oconnor_ian&id=6130435

    That kind of worries me a bit.

  9. ess-dog

    Tyler Murray: I’d love to wait until FA for Melo, but O’Connor apparently has a source who says:
    “Melo wants to be a Knick, he’s let everyone know that, and now the Knicks have to do their part. I still think it’s 80-20 that he ends up in New York in a trade. But if Melo doesn’t get traded, he’s going to be very upset and I don’t think he ever plays for the Knicks.”http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=oconnor_ian&id=6130435That kind of worries me a bit.  

    Wouldn’t Melo want his new team to be as good as possible i.e. not give away talent that doesn’t need to be given away? Does Melo want to play 2 on 5 every game with his buddy Stoud? Is Melo a 4 year old?

    I mean, if the article was about him being hesitant to give up the extension money, ok fine. But having to play out the season in Denver b/c Donnie doesn’t want to gut the team for him will make him “mad” at the Knicks? Is he going to start a whispering campaign against the Knicks? Tell off-color jokes about them?

    These guys just need new stuff to print every day or else they become irrelevant. It’s that simple.

  10. Richmond County

    I’m really struggling qualifying the mainstream media view that Fields+Gallo+Chandler<Melo. SAS wrote it again today on ESPN NY. I get that Melo is a "superstar" or whatever but has no one with a press pass picked up on how much even just Fields means to Knicks fans? I'm sure they missed his STAT impression at Modell's but I guess they don't zoom in on Spike's jersey during national broadcasts either. One day sports writers will figure out New York fandom. While Yankees fans are glad to have A-Rod, he will never be quite like Scott Brosious.

  11. Robert Silverman

    Regarding Isiah, not to get waaaaaayyyyy too personal, but I have some history with manic-depressives in my family and I think Zeke is a textbook case. They’ll always overstate/misrepresent (to themselves, to others) their own importance/power. So when Isiah starts making coy responses in interviews, it’s more likely not based on actual, you know, reality.

    I really don’t think he has any sway in this matter

  12. Brian Cronin

    I guess, Robert, but if David Stern had not stepped in, Isiah would already be working for the Knicks this year, so we know Dolan thinks highly enough of him to give him a job. Does that translate to having sway? I dunno, but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.

  13. latke

    Look at it this way:

    Luck has played a big role in all recent winners of champions.

    If David Robinson hadn’t missed an entire year, they wouldn’t have scored Duncan and no one would be talking about how wonderful a job their management has done.

    If Memphis hadn’t given up on Gasol, where would the Lakers be?

    Some teams just luck out with one mega-move after serious mismanagement. The Celtics come to mind.

    What makes these teams unique is that they gave up little to nothing to add critical pieces to their teams.

    The only counterexample I can think of that paid off was Miami’s trade for Shaq, in which they gave up the young duo of Odom and Butler, and that Heat team was a one and done team in the year with perhaps the weakest contenders in recent history. Furthermore, there’s definitely an argument to be made that the Heat would have had more championship opportunities if they had kept their core intact and used the cap space from Brian Grant to sign a player. Butler and Wade were both still on rookie contracts, so I believe Miami would have had serious cap space.

    My point here is that you can’t think about trading equal talent for a star in his prime. You have to think about what you need to get to a championship level. If you don’t have the assets to bring in the prime talent to win, then you may as well keep your young players and hope that another team with a star comes along that is even more desperate. In the meantime, you keep your cap space, which can help to facilitate that big trade when it comes along, or can help you sign other players to reasonable deals.

    IMO, if you trade away all the young talent for Carmelo, you put yourself in a position where you have nothing to hope for. This is your team: Carmelo and Amare. That’s just not enough to get it done. However, if Carmelo signs as an FA or comes for around the talent we’d have to renounce/trade in order to sign him, then maybe we do have a shot, in the long term, to win…

  14. Frank

    I’m a season ticket holder and finally really hopeful for our future. It’s been a dream of mine for a long time to be season ticket holder and finally I am one. But I would seriously consider giving them up if Donnie is let go and Isiah is put in any kind of power position. Hopefully Dolan knows that I am not alone in feeling this way. We would be a laughingstock in this league – trouble is, stupid Dolan seems to delight in pissing people off.

  15. New Guy

    Re: LeBron, SAS had a source, and he was right. Blind squirrel or not.

    That said, this is an opinion piece, so whether or not he has good sources is irrelevant. The opinion expressed is foolish, and he is insulting Knick fans by depicting us as short sighted and unintelligent. Most of us know that trading all our assets for Carmelo, and teaming him up with Amar’e and a bunch of veteran minimum players is a step further AWAY from a championship, not closer to one.

    This type of short-sided, all in trade was an Isiah Thomas specialty, and it’s what propelled the Knicks descent. Overpay, Overpay, Overpay. Worry about how the pieces fit together later. It’s nonsense. Knicks fans are smarter than this.

    Also, Stephen A Smith is a close personal friend of Isiah. In my opinion, this idiot is working for his friend to put more pressure on Donnie.

    In Donnie I Trust.

  16. Brian Cronin

    I love the fact that Simmons’ guess for the Melo deal is the following:

    a three-teamer in which the Knicks get Melo but take back Billups and the Al Harrington Trade Tax; Denver gets Ray Felton, Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer and expirings, sheds $11 million in 2011 payroll, gets a future No. 1 and an extra $3 million in cash from New York and reinvents itself cap-wise going forward; and Minnesota gets a chance to break the “Most Crazy Facial Expressions Ever” record with Anthony Randolph and Beasley.)

    It’s almost like an “eff you” to SAS and his ilk.

    That trade’s fine, by the way. The Knicks would be capped out by getting Melo anyways, so taking on Al is not a big deal. And I just love that Simmons is putting that up there as a realistic result, when everyone else at ESPN has been screaming, “Give them everything they want!”

  17. Ben R

    @17 I think that is right on. If we keep our youth and our cap space it gives us the opportunity for things to go right. Maybe they don’t and we are worse off than trading for Melo but if we trade all our assets for Melo then that’s it. Done. No cap space, no good draft picks, no promising young players.

    At least going forward with youth and cap space there is a million things that could go right and turn us into contenders. Most of those things are long shots but building a contender is a long shot anyway.

  18. d-mar

    As far as Denver’s latest “offer” goes, Donnie should not even dignify it with a counteroffer. It’s like someone is offering a Honda Civic for sale, and you ask them how much, and they say “$100,000″. Do you make a counter offer at that point, or just laugh and say “come back when you’re really ready to talk” Something tells me “cohesive” would not be the word to describe Denver’s front office right now, I visualize a bunch of guys screaming and yelling at each other and trying to conjure up ways to make Doyle Brunson (Walsh) blink.

  19. Frank

    Brian Cronin: I love the fact that Simmons’ guess for the Melo deal is the following:
    It’s almost like an “eff you” to SAS and his ilk.That trade’s fine, by the way. The Knicks would be capped out by getting Melo anyways, so taking on Al is not a big deal. And I just love that Simmons is putting that up there as a realistic result, when everyone else at ESPN has been screaming, “Give them everything they want!”  

    Maybe they’d give us the Birdman and spare us Al Buckets 2.0. Birdman would be a cult hero in this city.

  20. Richmond County

    @23 I’d take Birdman and Balkman (worst superhero duo ever) if it meant no Al Buckets again.

  21. Caleb

    Turiaf has a great Twitter account, lol.

    The last two entries…
    Jet Blue don’t fly to Carribean. And somehow great architect worked his magic I’m on plane lady at service center (talk to the hand)
    22 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

    Happiness Gone! Flight left. Missed my connection. I hate @americanairlines I hate you with a passion! U just lost a valued customer. Done
    29 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

  22. New Guy

    @22, aren’t you worried about the cohesiveness in our upper management? I keep imagining Walsh going into a meeting with an angry Dolan who is screaming at him to just get it done, no matter what the cost.

    I don’t think much of the Denver front office, but now that they’re beginning to sense Dolan is involved, why wouldn’t they start asking for more? At one point I imagine Kroenke will go right over Walsh and make the offer directly to Dolan. Dolan will consult with Isiah, then respond “We’ll do the deal, but only if we can throw in more future draft picks.”

    God I hate James Dolan.

  23. endyendy

    I think the Steven A. Smith column is a week or so old, just edited slightly. Either that, or he wrote a new column copying his last almost verbatim, which now that I think about it would not be remotely surprising. I have my home page set to ESPN NY and the deal there seems to be O’Connor and Cimini alternating writing the same piece on how Rex Ryan is costing the Jets or O’Connor and Steven A. writing the same piece on how the Knicks need to get Melo at all costs or O’Connor and… Man I do not like O’Connor writing things.

  24. Jafa

    endyendy: I have my home page set to ESPN NY and the deal there seems to be O’Connor and Cimini alternating writing the same piece on how Rex Ryan is costing the Jets or O’Connor and Steven A. writing the same piece on how the Knicks need to get Melo at all costs or O’Connor and…Man I do not like O’Connor writing things.  

    Your first mistake – setting your home page to ESPN NY. I mean, what insightful things were you hoping on reading from there, unless your reading Jared Zwerling’s writings about the Knicks.

    ESPN does not break news and rarely gives good analytical insight. Whether in print, on the web or on TV, their insight and analysis almost always lacks substance and leaves you wondering why you even bother. Judging from the fact that you frequent this site, I would like to think you are a sophisticated enough fan to get your news and analysis from better sites than ESPN.

    Don’t get me wrong, I still check ESPN, but that’s normally after I’ve hit us sites like Knickerblogger, Newsday (Alan Hahn), Yahoo, Realgm, Basketball prospectus, CBS Sports, NY Times, WSJ, etc.

    So do the sophisticated thing and change that homepage buddy.

  25. tastycakes

    A quality GM would not be doing his job if he listened to what the press was saying as much as we do.

    I love the trade deadline. Part of why I love this sport is that a few shrewd moves can change the dynamics of the entire league, and the deadline is the one time of year when the potential for change is highest. (Free agency this past year was a bit of an anomaly, I think).

    I hope the Knicks make some smart moves, obviously. There are gonna be some “get Melo at all costs or its a failure” morons out there, but you know what, I think our leadership is better than that.

    Somebody I read in the last 24 hours had a good point (can’t remember who) — Donnie DID blink and give up a lot of assets last year at the deadline to get that cap space. So, will he blink again in a similar situation?

    If the Nugs know *for an absolute fact* that Melo will opt out and go elsewhere, the Knicks have all the leverage no matter what you hear in the media.

    If they think there’s a legitimate chance he would stay, they can afford to be really hardline and see if the Knicks blink.

    Those have got to be some intense phone calls!

  26. david

    Craig Ehlo was the 2 on those Cavs teams, I think, as he was the one schooled by MJ on that famous shot. Price was a proto-Nash, a pure 1. But nasty. Those Cavs teams were really good — Nash, Ehlo, Larry Nance, Brad Dougherty.

  27. tastycakes

    I am miffed (in that homer kind of way) that Simmons didn’t mention Gallo in his trade value list, even in the honorable mentions! (I am a big Simmons fan btw).

    I mean, you’re telling me a guy on his rookie contract with a year+ left with Gallo’s talents and youth and potential isn’t more valuable *in a trade* than Andrea Bargnani or Aaron Afflalo or DJ Augustin or DeMar DeRozan or Greg freakin’ Cousins? I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t trade Gallo for almost anybody from #46 down. DeMarcus Cousins? Are you kidding me?

  28. New Guy

    I was miffed about it, too. And I might be a homer, too, but I would rather Landry Fields at $473k rather than Evan Turner at $4.6 million.

    “[Turner] is the only draft pick since 2007 capable of submitting one of those wacky, Rondo-esque 12-17-15 box-score lines someday”

    Really? He’s averaging 4.4 rebounds his highest single game assist total was 6. I think Fields almost put up one of those lines already (19-13-6 vs the Heat).

    And you’re telling me the Knicks would trade Amar’e for Paul Pierce? I don’t expect him to be objective when it comes to his boy, but a 33 year old SF with another 3 years at $15.5 million who needs to be surrounded by great teammates at this stage in his career isn’t going to garner a lot of interest around the league.

  29. jon abbey

    Ron Harper was also the 2 on some of those Cavs teams, he was a poor man’s Jordan before all of his knee problems (and still a very effective player after, with plenty of rings to prove it). Price/Harper/Nance/Daugherty was a pretty awesome core, they could just never quite break through.

  30. John Kenney

    I would trade Gallo for Cousins in less than 2 seconds, so that’s right. But you said “Greg Cousins” so if you meant Monroe, no, I wouldn’t trade him for greg monroe.

    Simmons did a really good comparison of kobe to tmac — up until 2004, Tmac was probably better. I like having him on there.

  31. tastycakes

    Yeah, I meant Greg Monroe. My bad!

    And really, DeMarcus Cousins? I’m sorry, but headcases of that magnitude should be avoided at all cost.

  32. tastycakes

    According to RealGM the Nugs ARE asking for our entire team.
    That’s nice! I guess they have decided to keep Melo!

  33. rayhed

    wouldnt mind the knicks entertaining some other trade ideas aside from melo… seems like a golden opportunity in the nba to snag some quality players from teams looking to shed contracts

  34. John Kenney

    @tastycakes maybe I’m biased because of being around the same age as Cousins, but I tend to take the position that the headcase tag is incorrectly applied to him. He’s not lazy, like other “headcases” such as Sheed. He’s just hypercompetitive and still young. He’ll be a dominant offensive post player /rebounder. I’d love having him next to Amare.

  35. Frank

    tastycakes: Somebody I read in the last 24 hours had a good point (can’t remember who) — Donnie DID blink and give up a lot of assets last year at the deadline to get that cap space.So, will he blink again in a similar situation?

    Donnie DID blink but that was a totally different situation. Everyone knew the Knicks had to clear Jefferies’s contract to have any chance at Lebron, so Morey had all the leverage, did the smart thing, and held strong. This is almost the exact opposite — Donnie is much closer to Morey’s situation this time around. Hopefully he drives as hard a bargain as frickin Morey did.

  36. flossy

    Yeah… I would probably trade Gallo for DeMarcus Cousins. There is nobody on the Kings who can keep Cousins in line, but I have a feeling he’d be a little more deferential to Amar’e. And a Stoudemire/Cousins 4/5 combo would be brutal (for our opponents).

    I’m not losing any sleep over it though, but you know who should be? Nets fans. They could have drafted Cousins and traded Brook Lopez to fill other holes in their roster. Now they’re stuck with Brook “shoots like Jamal Crawford, rebounds like Eddy Curry” Lopez, and they drafted a guy who looks like the next Tyrus Thomas. Oops.

  37. latke

    rayhed: wouldnt mind the knicks entertaining some other trade ideas aside from melo… seems like a golden opportunity in the nba to snag some quality players from teams looking to shed contracts  

    This raises an interesting point. It would be fun to see the Knicks leaking some stories about the other players they could get for the Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Wilson Chandler package. This could shift the media mob towards writing articles with headlines like, “Young GM Ujiri’s Legacy at Stake” or “Knicks Have Options, Nuggets Do Not”.

  38. TheRant

    latke: It would be fun to see the Knicks leaking some stories about the other players they could get for the Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Wilson Chandler package.

    It’s true. I heard from a close personal friend of World Wide Wes that Orlando is considering a trade of Dwight Howard for Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry’s contract.

  39. John Kenney

    THCJ, as commenter “spiker” says on that forum: “his character stuff is starting to look like a tempest in a teapot. The slap below Butler’s beltline looks like a flop to me on Butler’s part. Maybe a little sting, but I certainly could see why Cousins didn’t think he did anything. And the last one with the scramble on the floor, Cousins gets a serious knee to the face, inadvertent I would guess, but then he rolls over with forearms pushing (not striking) to the neck and head. Sure it was intentional but he thought he got kneed MMA style. If this is his bad rep, I say draft him #3 with no qualms.”

    And for every one of these, I send this back in response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCag8y5hobs

    The point is, different people do different things at different times. He might have weird reactions during games… but so does KG. And I view him as much more KG than Sheed in that regard. hypercompetitiveness is the cause. He got in the fight cause he wanted to take a last second shot! Yeah, there are problems with guys like that, but there are problems I’d much rather have than other “headcases” around the league.

  40. ess-dog

    Ha, at least Simmons is sort of funny but I really don’t want Al Buckets back, please God, no:

    “(My prediction for an outcome to this excruciating Melo saga, which should be repackaged as “MELO: DAY 189″ the same way “Nightline” rebranded the Iran hostage crisis: a three-teamer in which the Knicks get Melo but take back Billups and the Al Harrington Trade Tax; Denver gets Ray Felton, Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer and expirings, sheds $11 million in 2011 payroll, gets a future No. 1 and an extra $3 million in cash from New York and reinvents itself cap-wise going forward; and Minnesota gets a chance to break the “Most Crazy Facial Expressions Ever” record with Anthony Randolph and Beasley.)”

  41. NateRobinson

    At this point the only Melo trade I would not veto (if I had the power) would be a Chandler, Timo, Curry, 1st Round pick not coming from a Randolph trade.

    I am certain all of these attention-seeking reporters do not think through what they write. The fantasy smoke they try to blow up people’s 3rd hole is ridiculous sometimes.

    O’Connor and SAS writing that the Knicks ‘owe’ Amare and they should trade the entire squad if need be for Melo is just plain stupid and the main reason why Isiah should not be GM or any type of consultant for our sake.

    Interesting stat about STAT:

    -The Knicks are 7 points lower in defensive rating with him off the floor.
    -Allow 3 points less in opponent FG%
    -Allow 2 less second chance points
    -Force 3 more TOs

  42. CRJoe

    NateRobinson: At this point the only Melo trade I would not veto (if I had the power) would be a Chandler, Timo, Curry, 1st Round pick not coming from a Randolph trade.

    Every single Knicks fan is outraged with the prospect of parting with Landry Fields in a possible ‘Melo trade, and I just don’t get it. Landry has been a rookie beast this year and the biggest second round steal since 2007 (M. Gasol), but if you think of his success in terms of being in an ideal situation for him, Fields isn’t much dissimilar to Josh Childress.

    Both out of Stanford, both given big minutes as rookies, both had huge rebounding numbers for swingmen. Childress averaged 10.1 ppg in his rookie season, exactly the same as Landry has right now.

    I’m not saying that I don’t love what Landry has done for us this season, but if he is the tipping point in a ‘Melo deal, and the Knicks are holding out just because of his “potential”, they better know something I don’t.

  43. Frank

    What I don’t really get is this: if Melo really wants his extension and to go to the Knicks, all he has to do is go to Ujiri and say:

    1) I want to be traded to the Knicks
    2) I’ll go as a FA if necessary
    3) I will not sign an extension with any team other than the Knicks.
    4) If you don’t trade me by Sunday, I will go to the press and say #1-#3 in CBA-legal but very clear terms.
    5) So trade me now while you have the slightest bit of leverage. Take Chandler, Curry, Randolph/#1 pick from Minny, and cap relief and call it a day. After Sunday, you will have ZERO leverage and will either be stuck with a very low-ball offer you have to take, or get nothing and become Toronto or Cleveland when I walk.

    That’s it – he just needs to escalate the game of chicken and really put Ujiri’s feet to the fire.

    With all this “I’ll think long and hard about the extension” BS, he’s playing chicken with the wrong guy (Donnie).

    Trouble is – his agents are probably afraid that Denver will try to call his bluff, so are not giving him this advice.

    (or maybe that’s what he’s already said, and all this desperate misdirection by Denver is them flailing around with whatever leverage they think they have).

  44. BigBlueAL

    Latest tweets from Adrian Woj:

    “Denver-NJ in advanced talks on Anthony, Billups, Balkman, Ely, Williams for Favors, Harris, Murphy, Uzoh and 4 1st rounders, source tells Y!”

    “Once again, Nets and Nuggets have a framework, but Carmelo Anthony needs to be sold. Prokhorov-’Melo meeting could finally happen in L.A.”

  45. massive

    CRJoe:
    Every single Knicks fan is outraged with the prospect of parting with Landry Fields in a possible ‘Melo trade, and I just don’t get it. Landry has been a rookie beast this year and the biggest second round steal since 2007 (M. Gasol), but if you think of his success in terms of being in an ideal situation for him, Fields isn’t much dissimilar to Josh Childress.
    Both out of Stanford, both given big minutes as rookies, both had huge rebounding numbers for swingmen. Childress averaged 10.1 ppg in his rookie season, exactly the same as Landry has right now.I’m not saying that I don’t love what Landry has done for us this season, but if he is the tipping point in a ‘Melo deal, and the Knicks are holding out just because of his “potential”, they better know something I don’t.  

    Landry Fields is 3rd amongst all NBA Guards in WS/40. He’s behind Chris Paul and Steve Nash only. So, what that means is that Landry Fields has been more valuable to his team than:

    1) Dwyane Wade
    2) Kobe Bryant
    3) Rajon Rondo
    4) Derrick Rose
    5) Deron Williams
    6) Joe Johnson

    And that’s just to name a few.

  46. BigBlueAL

    Hahn is saying this is all a smoke screen basically and that the Nets dont even want to bother meeting with Melo because they have no interest in making this trade.

    All this crap is freaking nuts.

  47. BigBlueAL

    massive:
    Landry Fields is 3rd amongst all NBA Guards in WS/40. He’s behind Chris Paul and Steve Nash only. So, what that means is that Landry Fields has been more valuable to his team than:1) Dwyane Wade
    2) Kobe Bryant
    3) Rajon Rondo
    4) Derrick Rose
    5) Deron Williams
    6) Joe JohnsonAnd that’s just to name a few.  

    If you really believe he is more valuable to the Knicks than Wade, Rondo, Rose and even Deron Williams are to their teams than I dont know what to tell you.

    I LOVE Fields and do not want to trade him at all but stats and analysis like this is ridiculous.

  48. jon abbey

    massive:
    Landry Fields is 3rd amongst all NBA Guards in WS/40. He’s behind Chris Paul and Steve Nash only. So, what that means is that Landry Fields has been more valuable to his team than:1) Dwyane Wade
    2) Kobe Bryant
    3) Rajon Rondo
    4) Derrick Rose
    5) Deron Williams
    6) Joe JohnsonAnd that’s just to name a few.  

    what a waste of pixels that was, you can’t seriously believe this.

  49. CRJoe

    massive: Landry Fields is 3rd amongst all NBA Guards in WS/40. He’s behind Chris Paul and Steve Nash only.

    You wanna go with Advanced stats??? mmmhk…
    Fields WS/48: .102, PER: 14.2, OffRtng: 117 DfRtng:109
    Childress WS/48: .093, PER: 15.2, OffRtng: 113 DfRtng:111

    I’ll put it in different terms: some guys have gotten amazing rookie seasons, just because they happened to step into a situation where the team needed their specific skill set, but they never grew to anything beyond that. Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon made the all rookie team after scoring in double digits and achieving a better per than Landry (so far). So… Are we gonna make an objection of getting ‘Melo for the prospect of keeping a possible Hinrich, Gordon or *gasp* Childress??? I just think we should go for the proven…

  50. BigBlueAL

    Look again I LOVE Fields and I wouldnt minimize his talent and ability by comparing him to Childress and saying we should trade him because this is the best we will ever see him at. I think he is absolutely an important piece to the team that we should hold on to now and for the future. He is a very good basketball player who obviously like all players has his limitations.

    BUT to compare him to the really best guards in the league and have some kind of stat that says he is the 3rd best guard in the NBA is a joke. Not to mention you have Berri having him and Kris Humphries as the 5th and 6th best players in the East and calling them All-Star snubs.

    Im all for advanced stats as much as anybody. It has made analyzing baseball so much better. But basketball still has a long way to go in my opinion with advanced stats and statements like that about Fields is a reason why.

  51. massive

    I would be crazy to believe that he’s more valuable to his team than any of those guys. I’m not Dave Berri. But, I will say that Fields is better than Josh Childress.

  52. Brian Cronin

    Win Shares is the best. It is basically Berri’s work, but adapted so it doesn’t have those crazy outliers like Berri’s Wins Produced, with Fields being ranked third amongst guards. In Win Shares, Fields is waaaaaay lower.

  53. TheRant

    NateRobinson: O’Connor and SAS writing that the Knicks ‘owe’ Amare and they should trade the entire squad if need be for Melo is just plain stupid

    SAS what an ASS.

  54. Frank

    Meanwhile I love how prokhorov has already come out saying this whole thing is a bunch of BS. He doesn’t want his name being used in some amateur hour power play by Denver or to have his franchise look so desperate. Would definitely hurt not only his team (no chance the nets are contenders ever if they make this trade) but his image if he says in a press conference that this whole Carmelo thing is over, then get dragged back into a deal that’s even worse than the first one.

  55. ess-dog

    Jeez, we’re really dragging Denver kicking and screaming to the altar, aren’t we?

    Good call Brian on how the Nets would magically jump back into the mix. I’m staring to feel embarrassed for Denver.

    As far as our trade goes, I stand by the 2 of the 4 and one of Gallo/Fields line in the sand. The Felton/Billups swap could happen ad well. Therefore I think they’ll ultimately take Fields over Gallo and Chandler over AR. They’ll probably want a 2011 pick so we might have to trade out 2014 for a 2012 pick using a 2nd or a player. Then we can keep AR.

    So my prediction is Ray/Fields/Chandler and a 1st for Melo/Billups. We could always trade AR for a guard like Mayo to fill in for Fields.

    Can you imagine coming back to a Billups/Mayo or TD/Melo/stat/Moz lineup with Gallo off the bench? That would be weird.

  56. KnickInSeattle

    Do you think Gallo would be productive off the bench?
    His game seems largely based on confidence and that might be a blow.

  57. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, if Melo comes here without Gallo going to Denver, no way does D’Antoni go away from Melo/Gallo at the forward spots in the starting rotation.

  58. latke

    Speed is less important among shooting guards, where opposing teams’ guards are likely plenty quick, than among bigs. We need our bigs to be quick so they can beat opposing bigs to the rim on the pick and roll.

    If Fields ends up in the trade, I don’t see why we couldn’t have a lineup like Mozgov, Stoudemire, Anthony, Gallinari, Billups. Gallinari defended Joe Johnson admirably the other night. I don’t see why we couldn’t put him out there at the 2. He couldn’t keep up with guys like Dwayne Wade, but there aren’t many of those types left. The age of the ball dominant, dribble penetrating shooting guard is over. That role has shifted over to the 3 (Anthony, LBJ, Pierce) and the 1 (Paul, Williams, Rose). Most 2s are perimeter threats — kevin martin, ray allen, nick young, stephen curry, jason richardson.

  59. Brian Cronin

    Ugh, Melo and Nets meet.

    “See, Donnie, I might go to New Jersey! Up your offer so I can get my extension money from New York, dammit!”

    I think Donnie will call the bluff.

    If the New Jersey deal is actually viable, there’s no way the Nuggets wouldn’t take that over pretty much any Knick offer, so we’ll see pretty soon if it is a bluff.

  60. Jafa

    Has this ever happened in the history of the league, where a player who is under contract with a team meets with executives and owners of other clubs to discuss his possible future with their teams if he were to be traded to them?

    This has got to be unprecedented. The players today are making NBA history on a regular basis. From now on, when a team lets a star player go via free agency without getting comparable value in return due to their shortsightedness that the player would choose more money with them over a chance to win with someone else, it will be called a Lebron, as in “Blake Griffin just lebroned the Clippers”. Or if there were obvious hints the player would leave, it will be called a Bosh, as in “Nene just boshed the Nuggets”. We may be using verbs like “CP3 is meloing the Hornets” next season.

  61. Frank

    Speaking of Lebron — from the Miami Herald http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/18/2072688/all-star-boos-might-be-in-store.html

    “‘Fans are passionate,’ James said. ‘They believe that you should live your life and your career through them, and when you don’t do that, they automatically turn. I know that personally.’”

    Holy Q#$^#$. He still doesn’t get it. No one begrudged him the ability to go to whatever team he wanted to go to. They hate him because he was such an a-hole about the whole thing, and because he made it so clear that he is one of the most (if not the most) narcissistic people in the world.

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