Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, October 22, 2014

Are Shumpert and Dolan Feuding?

On Saturday evening, Frank Isola of the NY Daily News wrote an article about potential troubles facing the Knicks heading into next season.

The biggest threats are, of course, New York’s Eastern Conference rivals: Brooklyn’s mammoth upgrades, combined with expected improvement from Chicago, Indiana and Miami, pose a large road block for the Knicks in their quest to make the NBA Finals.

The other major issue cited by Isola concern the team’s roster construction and a pair of rather curious summer moves: The three-year contract given to J.R. Smith, despite a knee injury for which Earl immediately underwent surgery; and the mystifying trade / draft pick dump to secure the services of Andrea Bargnani.

The one thing that stood out, however, was this nugget from Isola regarding the issues Knicks Owner James Dolan and Iman Shumpert apparently have with one another.

I guess the only question is if Metta expires before Shumpert, one of the few Knicks that have value. Dolan is reportedly upset that Shumpert wasn’t interested in working with the summer league team and wants to trade him. Shumpert, I’ve heard, isn’t too crazy about the moves the Knicks had made which could further stunt his development.

As we’ve seen numerous times in the past, when you upset James Dolan, you’ve assumed the risk that you may not be a Knick for too much longer.

Dolan is fiercely loyal to some players — Allan Houston being the best example — and will do anything for those guys. But he’s also someone who has been known to holds a grudge for years. Just ask Isola, who has been dealing with one big cold shoulder for years now.

Like many of you, I have become a big Shumpert fan — particularly after his performance in the playoffs. I firmly believe he is ready to be a cornerstone player for this franchise.

Granted, there have been past rumors of the Knicks looking to trade Shumpert, including last season, when the there was talk of shipping Shump to Phoenix in exchange for Jared Dudley.

For his part, James Dolan has been very fortunate to have remained at the helm while so many other terrible New York owners have managed to make headlines for all the wrong reasons. At this point, it’s almost as if even a classic Dolan temper tantrum flies under the radar.

The biggest problem here is that, when Dolan gets sold on an idea, no matter how bad, he will move Heaven and Earth to make it happen. If he’s pissed off and looking to make a move? Watch out.

Of course, Iman himself had some thoughts on the article, and attempted to put to rest the rumors that he is somehow unhappy with the Knicks.

I know I’m not alone in hoping that the issues between Shumpert and Dolan work themselves out, and that the Knicks don’t get rid of Iman because of some petty squabble. Fact is, the Knicks have something in Shumpert that they’ve seldom enjoyed during Dolan’s tenure: a young, talented player under contract on the cheap for the next few years who has the potential to become a star.

What’s scary is that this could all be over in an instant, all because of their owner’s weird, recurring hangups. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

25 comments on “Are Shumpert and Dolan Feuding?

  1. AvonBarksdale

    i met some guy recently who works security at MSG and he told me he’s seen Dolan fire people before for all sorts of dumb shit just to be a dick and that he is even more of a dick nowadays then usual. Something about a divorce recently? Either way he is a douche.

  2. SeeWhyDee77

    I bet if the whole Garden chants ‘Fire Dolan!!'(even though he won’t fire himself), the way it did with Layden and Isaiah, I bet it would move him. Somebody needs to get in his ear and tell him to pump his brakes. He is teetering on a tipping point and one knee jerk could royally screw things worse than they have been. Hell..even Jerry Jones lets his guys work..from time to time lol

  3. Frank O.

    I would hate to lose Shump. He seems genuinely earnest and I will never forget his humble reaction when the Knicks drafted him.

  4. TheRant

    The answer is clear. Dolan needs to demonstrate his support for Shumpert by getting a hightop fade. Immediately.

  5. Hubert

    This all stems from off the cuff remarks Stephen A Smith made to Dwight Howard when he didn’t realize the camera was rolling.

    I get that SAS has sources, but this isn’t something he reported so it’s not likely he’s using them.

    I think more attention has been given to this story than is warranted, and we can sleep safely knowing that Shump isn’t going anywhere.

  6. max fisher-cohen

    I like Shumpert. He seems to have a sense of humor, and if things go well, I see him having a career similar to Metta Artest, smaller and less crazy.

    Regardless of the dolan thing though, practically speaking, there’s a decent possibility that in 2015, the Knicks will end up choosing between retaining Shumpert at a much higher price and adding another, bigger star. If the Knicks are going to trade or let go of Shumpert, this is the best year to do it as his value will go down a good bit next year when his contract is expiring and even more after he gets a new contract, which I would guess will be in the $8-$14m/year range depending on Shumpert’s performance the next two seasons season.

    If we put shumpert at $10m, Anthony at $25m, and assume Felton and Smith will take their player option for 15/16, that puts the Knicks salary at like $48m (counting holds for empty salary slots) — not nearly enough to offer a max contract. If the Knicks had had the chutzpah to say no to JR and Felton about the extra years, this would be less of an issue.

  7. Hubert

    Max,

    That’s all the more reason why I think it’s more likely we never end up being players in 2015 free agency. Knowing the impatience of this franchise, I think next year we trade the expiring contracts of Amar’e and/or Bargnani for the first marginal upgrade on a longer deal that gets offered to us. And chances are it won’t be a good trade for us.

  8. max fisher-cohen

    It’s a reasonable concern although it could end up working out as it did for the Mavs. The problem is it would put NY in some serious luxury tax pain. If their salary balloons to let’s say $90m in 2015, they would pay an average of about $5 for each dollar over the threshold, putting their total annual cost at like $155m. If they got up to $100m in salaries, that’d put them at about $210m or so. The repeater tax is is pretty vicious, so my suspicion is that the Knicks will use 2015 as their under the cap season so they don’t have to pay the repeater tax for another 3 seasons.

  9. max fisher-cohen

    sorry, the $5 for each dollar thing is wrong (forgot to delete it), but I’m pretty sure my numbers are ballpark right.

  10. flossy

    So Shumpert isn’t thrilled with the Knicks offseason moves? Seems like that puts him in the company of almost every Knick fan. Maintaining the status quo is fine (though the length of JR’s deal makes no sense and the knee injury is troubling), Artest on the cheap is a no brainer, but the Bargnani move smells like a Hail Mary in the part of the front office, and the roster is once again glutted with SGs and forwards at the expense of center and PG depth.

    I don’t think it’s impossible to improve, but we’ve staked our chances to keep pace in a conference that just got a lot more competitive on the possibility that Bargnani can pull his career out of the toilet and that Shumpert becomes a major impact player on both sides of the ball. I think the latter is slightly more likely than the former, but unlike many I don’t think Shumpert is a sure bet to become anything more than a solid 3 and D kind of wing, and it’s a bit troubling that the organization doesn’t seem to have much of a coherent plan in place for his development. He is still a terribly inefficient scorer outside of open spot ups and he has problems creating good shots for himself and others–that’s a real problem that needs to be resolved for him to be the kind of difference maker we need to have a shot of getting out of the East.

    As for those fretting about 2015, we should be so lucky to assume Shumpert earns anything close to a $10-14 million annual deal. Unless he dramatically improves you’d have to be insane to offer him that much, and if he does massively improve, there are far worse problems to have than that.

  11. jon abbey

    can we never have an article based on a Isola ramble here again, please? this really is getting to be the silly season.

  12. DRed

    If Shumpert isn’t happy with our offseason moves, than why is he even still a Knicks fan? I mean, all he does is complain. I don’t understand why he even bothers playing for the team if he doesn’t like it so much. Is he truly a Knicks player?

  13. thenamestsam

    flossy:

    As for those fretting about 2015, we should be so lucky to assume Shumpert earns anything close to a $10-14 million annual deal.Unless he dramatically improves you’d have to be insane to offer him that much, and if he does massively improve, there are far worse problems to have than that.

    This. In the words of Marlo Stanfield, that sounds like one of them good problems. Shump has a long way to go to be an $8M a year type of player, let alone anything more than that. I think we should see if Shumpert can have one complete year as an average NBA player before we start throwing him on the All-NBA team.

  14. jon abbey

    DRed, that would be kind of funny if it had even a smidgen of basis in fact (with the Shumpert part), but it doesn’t.

    one thing I mentioned already but will post again is that Artest’s face lit up when he was going through the current Knicks who he was looking forward to playing with and he got to Shumpie. he was professional when mentioning guys like Melo and Chandler, but he seemed genuinely excited to play with Shump Shump, and then he said nice things about Shumpie’s music this weekend on Twitter.

  15. d-mar

    I do think we’re all getting a little carried away with Shump. He was a great pick at #17, but he’s very flawed offensively. I think a realistic scenario is that he becomes Tony Allen with a jump shot, which would be perfectly fine with me.

  16. Z

    max fisher-cohen:
    If we put shumpert at $10m, Anthony at $25m, and assume Felton and Smith will take their player option for 15/16, that puts the Knicks salary at like $48m (counting holds for empty salary slots) — not nearly enough to offer a max contract.

    Shumpert will have a cap hold of $5 million, right? So even if he signed for $10 million, Knicks would still have more to offer a FA.

    AvonBarksdale:
    i met some guy recently who works security at MSG and he told me he’s seen Dolan fire people before for all sorts of dumb shit just to be a dick and that he is even more of a dick nowadays then usual. Something about a divorce recently? Either way he is a douche.

    Dolan fired Marv Albert, who’d started as a ball boy for the Knicks and worked his was up to do play by play for 37 years, for having the audacity to not shower praise on the Knicks and their magnificent 2004 season.

  17. max fisher-cohen

    cap holds for 4 year player rookies who made less than the NBA average salary in their final year are 250%, so Shumpert’s cap hold would be about $10m.

  18. massive

    I really do hate James Dolan. I just wish he would shut up and not hold grudges. I don’t know if I can handle losing Iman Shumpert for Carlos Boozer or Aaron Afflalo.

  19. mokers

    Isola is purely trolling the Knicks right now. He was the only source of the Shumpert is unhappy rumors, and he started reporting on those only after SAS was overheard saying that Dolan wanted to trade Shumpert because of summer league. SAS has sources, but he chose not to report the story. Now it is more than here say because he did say the things on tape, but Shumpert was already scheduled to go to China, so he was going to have limited summer league action anyway. There is plenty to be pissed about James Dolan without buying in to everything Isola says.

    I agree it will be interesting to see how the knicks handle the cap in the next two years, but the current CBA greatly restricts a lot of the moves we would have seen play out in the past, with much larger penalities The salaries that the Knicks have on the books currently for 15-16 should at least hold their value and can be used for trades. And as long as they are under the apron, it will be possible to take on additional salary using sign and trades and there will be more exceptions available. Yes, the Knicks could do something dumb next summer, but 2015 is looking like there will be great flexibility.

  20. Z

    max fisher-cohen:
    cap holds for 4 year player rookies who made less than the NBA average salary in their final year are 250%, so Shumpert’s cap hold would be about $10m.

    Shumpert’s final year salary will be $2.6 mil. So cap hold would be about $6.5 million.

  21. Frank

    Feels like about time to turn off the Knicks part of my brain until we get close to training camp.

    We’ve sort of degenerated into some mix of Vinny trolling about Nate-Rob, arguing about unsubstantiated rumors from Isola of all people, crying over spilled milk, and bashing Bargnani.

  22. max fisher-cohen

    Z: Shumpert’s final year salary will be $2.6 mil. So cap hold would be about $6.5 million.

    Right — my bad on that. I was looking at his qualifying offer.

  23. Frank O.

    jon abbey:
    DRed, that would be kind of funny if it had even a smidgen of basis in fact (with the Shumpert part), but it doesn’t.

    one thing I mentioned already but will post again is that Artest’s face lit up when he was going through the current Knicks who he was looking forward to playing with and he got to Shumpie. he was professional when mentioning guys like Melo and Chandler, but he seemed genuinely excited to play with Shump Shump, and then he said nice things about Shumpie’s music this weekend on Twitter.

    Jon and Shump, sittin’ in a tree…

  24. Hubert

    Was Artest even half as excited as he was watching Chris Copeland in the playoffs?

    Number 14 on the knicks is my favorite player. I dont even know his name. He dope!!
    — Metta World Peace (@MettaWorldPeace) May 8, 2013

  25. SeeWhyDee77

    TheRant:
    The answer is clear.Dolan needs to demonstrate his support for Shumpert by getting a hightop fade.Immediately.

    Best.
    Comment.
    Ever.
    LOL

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