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Friday, September 19, 2014

Amar’e Stoudemire Now Likely Out For At Least Six Weeks

ESPN is reporting that Amar’e Stoudemire will now be out for at least six weeks, possibly eight, and heck, let’s face it, who really knows what will happen next with his surgically repaired left knee.

Stoudemire went to the Phoenix Suns team doctor (the best team doctor in the world, right?) and he is the one who is projecting the new time frame.

Well, that’s not good news. I guess we won’t have to worry about how Melo and Amar’e mesh for awhile now, eh?

119 comments on “Amar’e Stoudemire Now Likely Out For At Least Six Weeks

  1. max fisher-cohen

    Sad. That’s three straight years Amar’e’s had a serious injury. THis one is by far the scariest. It’s weird because he looked decent in his one preseason game.

    It’s also kind of frustrating for this team to have another excuse. I just want some resolution with regard to the whole Amar’e/Melo thing (really the whole Amar’e/Melo/Chandler thing).

  2. JK47

    That means 6-8 weeks of Amar’e sitting around not playing basketball, which will mean another 3-4 weeks of him trying to find his rhythm and fit in with the team.

    When does that contract expire?

  3. Zanzibar

    Where have you gone Jeremy Lin? Interesting that the argument was never(?) made at the time that we might need a scoring PG in the event of continued Amare injury problems. Surprising since Phoenix wanted to make Amare’s salary in years 3-5 contingent on # of minutes played. It’s now a Melothon half-court offense. Hopefully Woodson will now emphasize transition ball especially since Melo/JR/Felton have thrived in that kind of offense and it should also be suitable for Chandler, Brewer, Shump, and Novak.

  4. er

    Im convinced that NBA “analysts” have never used a dictionary. If i hear that the brooklyn nets and devner nuggets are underrated again im going to puke. People have been on the Nuggets bandwagon for 2 years now. And have been on the Nets since they moved to brooklyn and got the biggest 2 guard ever in joe johnson. smh

  5. knicknyk

    Zanzibar:
    Where have you gone Jeremy Lin? Interesting that the argument was never(?) made at the time that we might need a scoring PG in the event of continued Amare injury problems. Surprising since Phoenix wanted to make Amare’ssalary in years 3-5 contingent on # of minutes played. It’s now a Melothon half-court offense. Hopefully Woodson will now emphasize transition ball especially since Melo/JR/Felton have thrived in that kind of offense and it should also be suitable for Chandler, Brewer, Shump, and Novak.

    The argument that we would need a scoring pg in the case of injury was made endlessly by multiple people. Myself included. Can the Knicks even get out and run in transition though? We have old legs can they handle that. I have my doubts.

  6. er

    smh i try to block it out of my memory….especially the fact that his contract was gonna be off the books this year

    Bruno Almeida:
    I still hate the fact that we had to use the amnesty on Billups…

  7. Glew

    Any chance we go after the recently waved Delonte West for a sg? Fairly pedestrian advanced stats (career .538 TS%, 13.9 PER) but dude seems like a gamer always thought of him as a tough defender who can hit an open shot. Certainly better shooter than brewer and he knows how to play with J Kidd.

  8. knicknyk

    Can you imagine a roster having all 3 of Delonte, Sheed & JR? Not particularly interested in Delonte.

  9. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-shoot-down-isiah-rumors/#comment-316223

    lol

    And why would they sign Delonte West? This is precisely the sort of “safe” move that does nothing for a team. They’d be much better off signing an undrafted rookie for a Lin-type gamble rather than giving PT to a guy who is not good according to just about every metric we have. Why would the Knicks waste that opportunity to strike gold on, of all people, Delonte West?

  10. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    knicknyk:
    Can you imagine a roster having all 3 of Delonte, Sheed & JR? Not particularly interested in Delonte.

    Yeah, I can’t imagine having three overrated headcases on the team. I’m still trying to figure out how Rasheed Wallace contributes anything to the Knicks this year aside from taking up a roster slot that could have been Jae Crowder’s.

  11. Juany8

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah, I can’t imagine having three overrated headcases on the team. I’m still trying to figure out how Rasheed Wallace contributes anything to the Knicks this year aside from taking up a roster slot that could have been Jae Crowder’s.

    Uhh… JR was an average player by WP last season. If anything, signing for $2.5 million a year seems close to a steal if you trust the number. He was terrible 2010, but mostly close to average the last few seasons before that. Delonte West has also been solidly above average by WP the past few years, in fact he hasn’t had a below average season since 2008 with the brand new OKC team. The Rasheed signing was dumb, but the other 2 players are solidly worth the small contracts they’re getting if we solely go by WP lol

  12. JC Knickfan

    er:
    smh i try to block it out of my memory….especially the fact that his contract was gonna be off the books this year

    Knicks could have gone Chris Paul instead. This is sad. but hindsight 20/20.

  13. DS

    “I guess we won’t have to worry about how Melo and Amar’e mesh for awhile now, eh?”

    You kid, but honestly I think this might be right. I don’t root for anyone to be injured, least of all a Knick, but I think giving Camby and Novak more minutes may not be such a bad thing.

  14. DS

    Wages of Wins has the Knicks at the 2nd seed (and Atlanta at #3, Denver as #1 in the West, i.e. they’re completely reliable). Woo!

  15. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    DS:
    Wages of Wins has the Knicks at the 2nd seed (and Atlanta at #3, Denver as #1 in the West, i.e. they’re completely reliable).Woo!

    I don’t get it. Are you mocking their projections?

  16. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Ah, so they’re unreliable because they don’t match your projections. I see.

  17. Juany8

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Ah, so they’re unreliable because they don’t match your projections. I see.

    They’re unreliable because they don’t match anyone’s projections. They disagree pretty strongly with Vegas on a lot of teams, and nobody consistently beats Vegas. I still don’t get why people don’t make models that basically try to match the Vegas projections overall, seems like the best way to be consistently right.

  18. DS

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Ah, so they’re unreliable because they don’t match your projections. I see.

    http://wagesofwins.com/2012/10/30/the-full-monty-win-predictions-for-the-2012-13-nba-season/

    I didn’t realize that my doubting a 55 win season (good for 3rd best in the league ahead of OKC, the Spurs, Clippers, Lakers, Bulls, and Celtics) would be controversial.

    I’m guessing the REASON their model is unreliable because they attribute a lot of the Bulls’ wins over the past few years to Ronnie Brewer and assume it will just transfer over to the Knicks this season. Tell me if I’m wrong. I hope I am.

  19. KnickfaninNJ

    Juany8: They’re unreliable because they don’t match anyone’s projections. They disagree pretty strongly with Vegas on a lot of teams, and nobody consistently beats Vegas. I still don’t get why people don’t make models that basically try to match the Vegas projections overall, seems like the best way to be consistently right.

    My theory Teams with lots of fans tend to be over valued in vegas and teams with few fans tend to be undervalued. So New York likely gets better odds than it deserves and Minnesota less. I think this is because people would generally rather bet on their home team to win. Of course, people in NY can get disgusted with their teams too, but either there are populations effects on Vegas odds.

  20. SeeWhyDee77

    I-I-I….*sigh* I don’t know what 2 say…money down the drain? I HOPED his knees wouldn’t be THAT bad as his pact is uninsured. But this is bad..real bad. Maybe the 2nd opinion is that bleak because the Dr wants him to come back 100% and be as close to the old Stat as possible..since he is so well in tune with his health from treating him previously. Even still, I don’t regret the team signing him. We had 2 do SOMETHING. And he played his heart out for us in year 1 and brought relevancy back to the Garden along with D’Antoni. That is a hell of a pill to swallow though. We still have Melo so on the court we’ll be OK. Well…at least still be a playoff team. It just hurts knowin that if Stat could have come back healthy this year and shown no ill effects with his knee, we problee could have moved him if we needed to. Now there’s no chance. He’s our Allan Houston now. Godspeed Stat..Godspeed. I am praying for the best..

  21. Juany8

    KnickfaninNJ: My theory Teams with lots of fans tend to be over valued in vegas and teams with few fans tend to be undervalued.So New York likely gets better odds than it deserves and Minnesota less.I think this is because people would generally rather bet on their home team to win.Of course, people in NY can get disgusted with their teams too, but either there are populations effects on Vegas odds.

    The big market teams to tend to have slightly missplaced odds to account for that, but it’s only because they are popular teams to vote for regardless of region. Vegas wouldn’t bother with teams like the Nuggets and Wolves unless a significant amount of people started betting either the over or under against those teams. Vegas adjusts to how bets are placed, not on populations of certain areas.

  22. KnickfaninNJ

    The Knicks probably are better than last year and we were on a pace to win 45 or 46 games last year, but 55 wins seems excessive to me too. Especially as none of the Eastern division teams stood pat.

  23. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Ah, so they’re unreliable because they don’t match your projections. I see.

    you’ve repeatedly gone against those projections .. But only when they have the Knicks doing well!!!

    Seriously THCJ.

    Amare injury is best thing to happen to Knicks ,right?

  24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    The projections don’t account for injuries, and the Knicks will have their share. Still, Camby and Chandler is the best frontcourt in the league (unless Pau plays like his old self) and will give Carmelo many more opportunities to take his 17-foot jumpers. And will Brewer get the minutes he needs to make a significant contribution? Will Kidd and Camby not fall off the age cliff?

    The talent is there (and I don’t mean Melo and Amar’e). The question marks are huge.

    And I wouldn’t be surprised if OKC goes 50-32 this season. Harden’s a huge loss.

  25. ruruland

    KnickfaninNJ:
    The Knicks probably are better than last year and we were on a pace to win 45 or 46 games last year, but 55 wins seems excessive to me too.Especially as none of the Eastern division teams stood pat.

    They were on pace for 51 wins and have improved on paper in every statistical category: shooting efficiency, rebounding, turnover/assists

    Now, amare injury has forced me to recalibrate my projection to the 49-54 range. Of course, theres a chance Melo has the kind of November/December that makes up for his abscence. But as I’ve shown before, Melo cannot sustain high efficiency on 35 % usage. When Amare comes back, he’ll need to be good. When this team is healthy, and you just need to be healthy a few weeks before postseason, they will be really good.

  26. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: you’ve repeatedly gone against those projections .. But only when they have the Knicks doing well!!!

    Seriously THCJ.

    Amare injury is best thing to happen to Knicks ,right?

    If they had Faried as his backup, it would be a blessing.

    ; )

    And then the media would talk about how Carmelo really stepped up and allowed his undersized, “high-motor,” “scrappy” sophomore PF to succeed.

  27. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    The projections don’t account for injuries, and the Knicks will have their share. Still, Camby and Chandler is the best frontcourt in the league (unless Pau plays like his old self) and will give Carmelo many more opportunities to take his 17-foot jumpers. And will Brewer get the minutes he needs to make a significant contribution? Will Kidd and Camby not fall off the age cliff?

    The talent is there (and I don’t mean Melo and Amar’e). The question marks are huge.

    And I wouldn’t be surprised if OKC goes 50-32 this season. Harden’s a huge loss.

    hopefully Melo gets injured, too, how many more games would the Knicks win if Melo and Amare missed the season and Brewer played 48 minutes every game?

  28. KnickfaninNJ

    ruruland: They were on pace for 51 wins and have improved on paper in every statistical category: shooting efficiency, rebounding, turnover/assistsNow, amare injury has forced me to recalibrate my projection to the 49-54 range. Of course, theres a chance Melo has the kind of November/December that makes up for his abscence. But as I’ve shown before, Melo cannot sustain high efficiency on 35 % usage. When Amare comes back, he’ll need to be good. When this team is healthy, and you just need to be healthy a few weeks before postseason, they will be really good.

    Ruruland, I am not sure whaty you mean saying they were on pace for 51 wins? Last year they were 36 and 30 for a winning percentage of .545. That winning percentage of 82 games is 45 and 37. Doesn’t than mean on pace for 45 wins last year?

    I agree they are better on paper and they have also have a usable point guard rotation, which was a big lack last year. So I agree they could get 51 wins. But 55 wins still seems a stretch to me. And, since I have always been overly optimistic in the past, I worry about even getting 51 wins.

  29. ruruland

    KnickfaninNJ: Ruruland,I am not sure whaty you mean saying they were on pace for 51 wins?Last year they were 36 and 30 for a winning percentage of .545. That winning percentage of 82 games is 45 and 37.Doesn’t than mean on pace for 45 wins last year?

    I agree they are better on paper and they have also have a usable point guard rotation, which was a big lack last year.So I agree they could get 51 wins.But 55 wins still seems a stretch to me. And, since I have always been overly optimistic in the past, I worry about even getting 51 wins.

    Pythagorean win % is normally a better indicator than win %.

    Knicks had point differential of 51 win team

  30. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland:
    How many games does Denver win; how far in playoffs?

    Depends on match-up, injuries, George Karl playing Faried 30+ mpg, etc. I would guess 53 in the regular season, no clue about playoffs.

    Would you trade Iguodala for Carmelo, straight-up?

  31. KnickfaninNJ

    ruruland: Pythagorean win % is normally a better indicator than win %.Knicks had point differential of 51 win team

    Well I certainly hope you are right!

  32. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Depends on match-up, injuries, George Karl playing Faried 30+ mpg, etc. I would guess 53 in the regular season, no clue about playoffs.

    Would you trade Iguodala for Carmelo, straight-up?

    hell no.

    But taking your view on things, the Nuggets somehow won 53 and 54 games with Melo taking most of the shots and a horrible PF beside him.

    Now they have a way better wing than Melo, a Dennis Rodman/Karl Malone hybrid at PF, to go along with an all-Berri team,how the fuck are they only winning 53 games?

    Here is Jowles’ 60 win Knicks lineup: Kidd, Brewer, Novak, Camby, Chandler.

    DOM

  33. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Here’s a tougher question for you:

    Would you do Carmelo’s laundry if he promised to make eye contact while he asked?

  34. bobneptune

    JC Knickfan: Knicks could have gone Chris Paul instead. This is sad. but hindsight 20/20.

    It’s not hindsight, it was argued to death when the steven a smith types were screaming we gotta have melo at any price. Walsh had the knicks in an enviable position with many options til the moment the drunk stepped in and took over the “negotiations”

  35. Juany8

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Depends on match-up, injuries, George Karl playing Faried 30+ mpg, etc. I would guess 53 in the regular season, no clue about playoffs.

    Would you trade Iguodala for Carmelo, straight-up?

    It’s amazing that you have to hope a coach will play a “superstar” 30 minutes when they have no legit PF backups. Makes you wonder how colossally stupid Karl has to be to not play the second best per minute player in the NBA the minutes he deserves. But then this is a stat that would have told Gregg Poppovich that Dejuan Blair was as good as Tim Duncan 2 years ago, or told Sam Presti that Harden was a better player than Durant. So if you think Matt Barnes was a better player than Kevin Garnett, Wins Produced is the stat for you

  36. njasdjdh

    ruruland: Really?

    My bad. That was childish. I just think it’s amusing that your Knicks projection wouldn’t account for likely injury to the Knicks’ oft-injured PF. So, did you just assume complete health for everyone on our really old roster when you made your, the Knicks are going to win 55 games proclamations? Serious question.

  37. Juany8

    It’s really funny that people act like OKC committed some huge travesty by leaving Harden. Dallas actually WON the title, had a literally perfect core for taking on Miami and winning again (Lebron and Bosh wouldn;t work against Dirk and Chandler lol) and simply let their stud center, and second best player on a championship team, walk in free agency. Presti actually recovered some assets, including someone with the potential to be a game changing defender like Harden never would be, and they weren’t repeating!

    Hell, the Lakers got a lot better and would have had a legitimate chance to take them down anyways, while the Spurs were pretty damn close a year ago and have several young players that could improve. OKC didn;t even have a guarantee that they’d get back to the title, Dallas would have been the clearcut favorite last year if they kept the core, and instead they let it walk away for nothing. And Dallas is in a big city and owned by Marc Cuban, who couldn’t give 2 fucks if his team was losing money, OKC would have been SCREWED if the core didn’t work out and they lost out on all their flexibility for the coming years. OKC isn’t bringing legit role players like Ray Allen and Shane Battier (who played a massive role in the Finals) for the mid-level exception.

    This of course also ignores that OKC almost won the Finals despite Lebron going nuclear, Harden playing like a scrub on both ends, and their coach putting up one of the most mind-numbing coaching performances of all time. If Lamb becomes Sefalosha with a good shot and some offensive skills and Maynor stays healthy, they’re a better team than the one who was within a possession of winning games 2-4 in the Finals

  38. ruruland

    njasdjdh: My bad. That was childish. I just think it’s amusing that your Knicks projection wouldn’t account for likely injury to the Knicks’ oft-injured PF. So, did you just assume complete health for everyone on our really old roster when you made your, the Knicks are going to win 55 games proclamations? Serious question.

    No, gone over this a bunch. 1-2 week injuries were going to happen. 53-58 projection always included caveat of no long term injury to top rotation player. Amare may not make a meaningfull contribution until January.

  39. njasdjdh

    ruruland: No, gone over this a bunch. 1-2 week injuries were going to happen. 53-58 projection always included caveat of no long term injury to top rotation player. Amare may not make a meaningfull contribution until January.

    Given the age/injury concerns of the Knicks roster…why would you assume that?

  40. daJudge

    It’s really odd. I am usually pretty optimistic about the Knicks, perhaps foolishly. Heck, I have been following them since 1967. When I read this site, it’s usually a cold dose of reality. But now it seems that most of the readers are more optimistic than me. I do not see the Amare injury as devastating to the team. Nevertheless, until I see it, analytically (from you guys) or empirically (from my eyes), I just don’t see how this team is anything more than mediocre, maybe a bit better. Melo is Melo and will be Melo; not someone else, existing in Plato’s cave. Granted, he’s an excellent player in some ways, but flawed in other ways. If you don’t see this, no one can convince you otherwise. Felton is Felton and will be Felton; he’s a decent point guard. No more, no less. Chandler is a beast and my kind of player, but he has serious and sweeping offensive limitations. We have no shooting guard who can shoot. The rest are the rest. Unless this team can develop a cogent identity derived through who they are, not who we (or they) imagine them to be, they will not be successful. IMO, they can be a tough, scrappy, hard nosed team that nobody wants to really play. However, without Shump, this will be difficult. What’s interesting to me is that if Melo took off the bow tie and decided to focus on leading this team as a defender with Chandler and a guy like Thomas, perhaps this concept would be possible. I do not believe it will happen and I am therefore skeptical and pessimistic.

  41. ruruland

    njasdjdh: Given the age/injury concerns of the Knicks roster…why would you assume that?

    The Knicks top rotation players are not old.

    I predicted Camby would play 60-65 games before this season started, which wouldn’t be much of a problem when you have depth and versatility.

    But Amar’e missing 30-40 games is a surprise, regardless of his history. Sure, he was more likely to get one of those injuries, just not likely.

  42. ruruland

    daJudge: It’s really odd. I am usually pretty optimistic about the Knicks, perhaps foolishly. Heck, I have been following them since 1967. When I read this site, it’s usually a cold dose of reality. But now it seems that most of the readers are more optimistic than me. I do not see the Amare injury as devastating to the team. Nevertheless, until I see it, analytically (from you guys) or empirically (from my eyes), I just don’t see how this team is anything more than mediocre, maybe a bit better. Melo is Melo and will be Melo; not someone else, existing in Plato’s cave. Granted, he’s an excellent player in some ways, but flawed in other ways. If you don’t see this, no one can convince you otherwise. Felton is Felton and will be Felton; he’s a decent point guard. No more, no less. Chandler is a beast and my kind of player, but he has serious and sweeping offensive limitations. We have no shooting guard who can shoot. The rest are the rest. Unless this team can develop a cogent identity derived through who they are, not who we (or they) imagine them to be, they will not be successful. IMO, they can be a tough, scrappy, hard nosed team that nobody wants to really play. However, without Shump, this will be difficult. What’s interesting to me is that if Melo took off the bow tie and decided to focus on leading this team as a defender with Chandler and a guy like Thomas, perhaps this concept would be possible. I do not believe it will happen and I am therefore skeptical and pessimistic.

    Who shot? Jr can’t shoot?

  43. BigBlueAL

    On a side note hope all of you who live in NY/NJ are alright. I live in Miami and have been thru a bunch of hurricanes/tropical storms and usually we laugh at these type of storms and nothing ever bad comes out of them but seeing the pics of the damage up there is pretty tough to look at.

  44. daJudge

    Ruru–what do you mean “who shot”? If you’re saying JR is a good shooter, this coach is not even confortable starting him at the 2. He’s not even a good (reliable enough?) enough shooter to displace at the 2 a guy who we know for a fact does not shoot well at all. Don’t get me wrong Ruru, I like JR a lot, but he’s not your typical knock down jump shooter. Right? Having said all this, JR can fit in that junk yard dog type of team, which I would absolutely love. One of my problems with Coach D’Antoni was that he tried to make a purse out of a sow’s ear. Thing is, I don’t think all the Knicks buy into the tough, hard-nosed, junk yard dog concept/identity. They want to be ‘stars’. For example, if Melo wanted to be a leader in this regard, he’d be embraced by all fans and more importantly this team would thrive. I think Melo could be a nasty tough player on both ends of the court. This is one of my problems with Stat. He seems like a great guy, says all the right things, but he is soft as a power forward. Take this to the bank—this team can not and will not succeed as a finesse team. Maybe they should all have a sit down with Thomas and Chandler.

  45. nicos

    I’m looking for a big year from JR- in fact, if I had to pick the one guy to have a much better year than anticipated it’s him. I think (or at least I hope) playing in China had a lot to do with last year’s struggles- having your routine completely disrupted for several months has to be like coming off of a major injury. He seems to be in a better place head-wise than he’s been so it’s possible he might actually turn the corner this year. Of course, it JR we’re talking about so he could self-destruct as well but for some reason I think a very good season (say 18-20 ppg at 58-60% TS) is more likely than a flameout.

  46. daJudge

    Brian, that’s really funny, but do you know what I mean? BBA, then why do you suppose Coach isn’t starting him at the 2? BTW, are you all kind of OK down in the City? Be careful. I heard from my brother-in-law that there is no electricity from 37th street down, except for the far westside. I’m sure there is a substantial police presence.

  47. Brian Cronin

    I see what you’re going for. You want the Knicks to be a tough-nosed team again. I don’t know if this particular assortment of players works for that, but sure, I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that. Woodson presumably would know how to run a team like that.

    As for the hurricane, My wife and I are in Astoria and we’re luckily still with power. The Con Ed outage map is freaky to look at. Apartment buildings a block a way from us have no power but we’re still in there. Both of my brothers lost power (they’re both in Westchester) but my parents still have power (also in Westchester).

  48. nicos

    daJudge:
    BBA, then why do you suppose Coach isn’t starting him at the 2?

    Woodson played JR over 30 minutes a night last year (more in the playoffs) without giving him a start- he was hardly in Woodson’s doghouse. If JR starts the only offense you have off of the bench is Novak (unless you’re counting on Copeland which is iffy at best) which is why I’d guess Woodson wants to use him as a 6th man. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if JR winds up starting in the not-too-distant future as the starting unit could really use the spacing he can provide.

  49. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    nicos:
    Of course, it JR we’re talking about so he could self-destruct as well but for some reason I think a very good season (say 18-20 ppg at 58-60% TS) is more likely than a flameout.

    Maybe it’s “more likely,” but it’s damn near impossible. Four players achieved 58% TS and 18+ PPG last season.

    LeBron James, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Andrew Bynum. You think J.R. is going to pull that off? You think that’s likely? Be reasonable. He’s going to be lucky to be better than 54% TS next season.

  50. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Maybe it’s “more likely,” but it’s damn near impossible. Four players achieved 58% TS and 18+ PPG last season.

    LeBron James, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Andrew Bynum. You think J.R. is going to pull that off? You think that’s likely? Be reasonable. He’s going to be lucky to be better than 54% TS next season.

    not with passing point guards.

    If he’s asked to create a lot youll probably see it in that range.

    Also JR come really close to those numbers per 36 a few times in his career.

  51. daJudge

    Nicos, I’m certainly not saying JR is or should be in the dog house. I really like him, but I’m also pretty sure that he is not a finesse type player. It’s more of a concept idea of what this team should be aiming for ultimately. Brain, thank you very much for replying and I’m glad you folks in northern Queens are OK and safe with this scary storm (I’m a College Point guy originally). I guess my point is that even with the legion of problems that attend this team, perhaps by all committing to defense, this team could go far, notwithstanding their offensive limitations. To me, this would start with Melo as a leader. I don’t give a hoot that he is the most talented offensive player and I could care less who looks the coolest. It’s all total BS and a diversion. Also, I really do not care at all what each player achieves individually, because within a team concept designed simply to win that measure is not only irrelevant, but possibly detrimental. While I do not really understand half the stuff that THCJ says, I do agree with his high measure of certain players that simply help their team win—-which by definition is the only measure that is relevant. It is the only thing that counts. Instead, many players want to be individual stars. This philosophy needs to change big time. I wonder if our so-called stars can embrace a winning attitude despite the fact that they are multi-millionaires who live a bubbled, privileged and protected existence. Rant over.

  52. Juany8

    So…. I’m just gonna go ahead and be honest and say the Celtics are a clear cut better team than the Knicks. They might just have the depth to be a good regular season team.

  53. nicos

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Maybe it’s “more likely,” but it’s damn near impossible. Four players achieved 58% TS and 18+ PPG last season.

    LeBron James, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Andrew Bynum. You think J.R. is going to pull that off? You think that’s likely? Be reasonable. He’s going to be lucky to be better than 54% TS next season.

    Okay, maybe I overshot a bit though (esp. on the ppg as he’ll have a lot of competition for minutes) he did have three straight years of .585, .605, and .576 TS% playing between 19-27 minutes a night. He has struggled two out of the last three years so you may be right that he’ll be lucky to hit .540 but I’ll be disappointed by anything under that and am certainly hoping for better- I’d say given more spot-ups getting back to the .550 he shot two years ago should be very achievable, 560-580% maybe a surprise but not a huge one, and anything above that would be- as I said in my last post- really exceeding expectations.

  54. cgreene

    daJudge:
    It’s really odd.I am usually pretty optimistic about the Knicks, perhaps foolishly.Heck, I have been following them since 1967. When I read this site,it’s usually a cold dose of reality.But now it seems that most of the readers are more optimistic than me.I do not see the Amare injury as devastating to the team.Nevertheless, until I see it, analytically (from you guys) or empirically (from my eyes), I just don’t see how this team is anything more than mediocre, maybe a bit better.Melo is Melo and will be Melo; not someone else, existingin Plato’s cave.Granted, he’s an excellent player in some ways, but flawed in other ways.If you don’t see this, no one can convince you otherwise.Felton is Felton and will be Felton; he’s a decent point guard.No more, no less.Chandler is a beast and my kind of player, but he has serious and sweeping offensive limitations.We have no shooting guard who can shoot.The rest are the rest.Unless this team can develop a cogent identity derived through who they are, not who we (or they) imagine them to be, they will not be successful. IMO, they can be a tough, scrappy, hard nosed team that nobody wants to really play. However, without Shump, this will be difficult.What’s interesting to me is that if Melo took off the bow tie and decided to focus on leading this team as a defender with Chandler and a guy like Thomas, perhaps this concept would be possible. I do not believe it will happen and I am therefore skeptical and pessimistic.

    Ruru, you should take this post and give it to Melo. This is spot on. This team COULD be as daJudge describes here. But it’s all on Melo. Maybe Tyson, Rayray and Dirty Kurty can get Melo to this place. The Knicks could be a great defensive team.

  55. nicos

    daJudge:
    Nicos, I’m certainly not saying JR is or should be in the dog house.I really like him,but I’m also pretty sure that he is not a finesse type player.It’s more of a concept idea of what this team should be aiming for ultimately.

    I actually think he fits in really well with the starting line-up. He’s very good three pointer shooter who’s athletic enough to get to the rim if you try to run him off of the line and he’s excellent in transition as well. He should get good looks both off of Felton’s push and his pnr penetration (Felton was excellent at kicking the ball out to the perimeter in pnr’s during his last stint with the Knicks) and also from skip passes from Melo out of double teams. The higher percentage of his shots that come in those situations, the more successful he and the team will be. If he’s stuck being the first option with the second unit until Amar’e gets back, we may see a ton of step back 22 footers and no one will be happy.

  56. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    I see what you’re going for. You want the Knicks to be a tough-nosed team again. I don’t know if this particular assortment of players works for that, but sure, I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that. Woodson presumably would know how to run a team like that.

    As for the hurricane, My wife and I are in Astoria and we’re luckily still with power. The Con Ed outage map is freaky to look at. Apartment buildings a block a way from us have no power but we’re still in there. Both of my brothers lost power (they’re both in Westchester) but my parents still have power (also in Westchester).

    I grew up in Astoria!! Moved down here when I was 10 but I still remember vividly the block I lived in and the surrounding area for the most part. When I went back to NY last summer I went back to where I used to live, old house still there where I remembered it lol.

    Glad to hear you are doing fine.

  57. ess-dog

    nicos: I actually think he fits in really well with the starting line-up.He’s very good three pointer shooter who’s athletic enough to get to the rim if you try to run him off of the line and he’s excellent in transition as well.He should get good looks both off of Felton’s push and his pnr penetration (Felton was excellent at kicking the ball out to the perimeter in pnr’s during his last stint with the Knicks) and also from skip passes from Melo out of double teams.The higher percentage of his shots that come in those situations, the more successful he and the team will be.If he’s stuck being the first option with the second unit until Amar’e gets back, we may see a ton of step back 22 footers and no one will be happy.

    I agree with this. I’m not the biggest fan of JR, but he brings 3 pt shooting and pretty good defense at the 2. A Ray/JR backcourt = a lot of bad shots, but it’s better offensively than Ray/Brewer.

    Brewer could be a defensive bench specialist. Bring him in to cover a 2 or 3 if they’re going off against either JR or Melo.

    I know the idea is to have JR for points off the bench, but we need points all over the place, not just the bench. Hey, and maybe Copeland can be the bench scorer?

    I just think the starting lineup we have going invites the guards to sag down and help on Melo too often.

  58. massive

    LeBron puts up 26 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 steals in 29 minutes of play against last year’s #1 defense. And people really think Kobe Bryant is the best basketball player in the NBA?

  59. max fisher-cohen

    IMO with Stoudemire out, start Novak instead of K. Thomas. He gives you the spacing that the SL sorely needs and his poor dribbling is less of an issue when he shares the floor with the Knicks’ best creator.

    When/if Stoudemire gets healthy, then yeah IMO you have to start JR. The SL is just too crap at shooting to play Ronnie Brewer.

    As far as scoring off the bench in that situation, when Stoudemire gets back, you move JR to the SL and stagger SToudemire and Anthony, playing Prigioni with Stoudemire as that offense’s engine. Even with Copeland (admittedly in the preseason) Prigioni was consistently finding people for decent shots.

    There were a lot of misses, but that’s something we just have to accept with this team. Against a smart team that understands our weak shooters and doubles off them wisely, we are going to struggle to score. There is no solution to that other than roster changes.

  60. max fisher-cohen

    massive:
    LeBron puts up 26 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 steals in 29 minutes of play against last year’s #1 defense. And people really think Kobe Bryant is the best basketball player in the NBA?

    Kobe has sold way more shoes, man. Each shoe sold is worth 3.5 wins.

  61. JK47

    Eddy Curry sighting in the Lakers/Dallas game. Gasol just dished to Howard and Howard dunked it while Eddy stood and watched, slack-jawed.

  62. JK47

    Now Gasol shoots a jumper right in Curry’s face, Curry turns it over on the other end, fastbreak, Jordan Hill dunks.

    That’s my Eddy!

  63. massive

    max fisher-cohen: Kobe has sold way more shoes, man. Each shoe sold is worth 3.5 wins.

    Actually, LeBron’s sneakers are the best selling basketball shoes outside of the Air Jordan and Air Max Penny lol. Kobe probably sells more jerseys in China, though.

  64. EB

    I started thinking about who could replace Mike Brown ever since they announced that he’d be their coach.

    Dantoni-Nash reunion?

  65. Glew

    Wow, did not realize that league pass gets games blacked out if its nationally televised. Hopefully i can rescind that decision.

  66. BigBlueAL

    Glew:
    Wow, did not realize that league pass gets games blacked out if its nationally televised. Hopefully i can rescind that decision.

    If the game is on TNT/ESPN/ABC/NBA TV the game will not be on League Pass (TV or broadband) which means no local broadcast options (although NBA TV usually airs the home team broadcast). One of many reasons its nowhere near as good as MLB Extra Innings/MLB.TV. Also dunno about other cable systems but in mine their is only 1 HD channel for League Pass.

  67. Owen

    Mmmm, basketball season is on…….

    Time to get back on the horse.

    I drafted Jae Crowder in my fantasy league. Why the Knicks didn’t buy a pick and snag him I have literally no idea.

    Also, the WOW is not alone in loving Denver. Pelton has them with the best chance of winning the division, while noting that a bunch of teams have good shots.

    Very exciting to be a member of the Carmelo Anthony Fan club. Lots to look forward to apparently. Going to put my number down on 49 for the number of knicks wins this year. Which might be good for a two seed with the way the East is looking….

  68. cgreene

    It’s like having a Ferrari and letting your 15 year old kid drive it. Gotta be driving Lakers fans nuts.

  69. massive

    Anybody still think the Lakers have a legitimate chance of beating the Heat? It’s not good that a healthy Lakers team is having trouble with an injury-stricken Mavs team. Watching the eye-test Lakers lose makes me so happy.

    Go Jae Crowder!

  70. Brian Cronin

    It’s like having a Ferrari and letting your 15 year old kid drive it. Gotta be driving Lakers fans nuts.

    I think it is more like It’s having a Ferrari and letting your 90 year old grandfather drive it. The kid might at least be a little adventurous. Let’s give Steve Nash to the most inept offensive coach in the league! Woohoo!

  71. massive

    Yeah, you’re right. I didn’t expect the Lakers to be a good regular season team in the first place. But they’re being outplayed by an undermanned Mavericks team, so I expect Stephen A Smith to be screaming for Mike Brown to be fired tomorrow on ESPN First Take.

  72. cgreene

    Brian Cronin: I think it is more like It’s having a Ferrari and letting your 90 year old grandfather drive it. The kid might at least be a little adventurous. Let’s give Steve Nash to the most inept offensive coach in the league! Woohoo!

    I mean do we really think Nash doesn’t have the freedom to do whatever he wants out there and is beholden to what Brown is telling him? If I had those 5 on the floor I’d tell them “go play and tell me what you do best and then I’ll try to hone it a little with some plays”

  73. cgreene

    Although let’s be clear about one thing. Dwight Howard is an idiot. He has less self awareness than did a few years ago and that’s saying something. LeBron figured it out with the help of Riley/Wade etc. Howard is in a weird “win now” situation bc of the age on Kobe/Nash/Gasol/Artest. If it takes him a year or 2 to grow out of that idiocy then the window closes.

  74. JK47

    Howard and Hill’s 4-18 combined free throw shooting isn’t helping matters much. Plus Nash is playing like a scrub. Metta Artest World Peace whatever also looks kinda lost on both ends.

    Yeah, they’re pretty funky looking at the moment.

  75. JC Knickfan

    They now 0-9 including preseason.
    Princeton offense – I’m willing bet Nash average 8 or below on assists. This offense really take the ball out of his hands.

  76. JC Knickfan

    Owen:
    Mmmm, basketball season is on…….

    Time to get back on the horse.

    I drafted Jae Crowder in my fantasy league. Why the Knicks didn’t buy a pick and snag him I have literally no idea.

    Also, the WOW is not alone in loving Denver. Pelton has them with the best chance of winning the division, while noting that a bunch of teams have good shots.

    Very exciting to be a member of the Carmelo Anthony Fan club. Lots to look forward to apparently. Going to put my number down on 49 for the number of knicks wins this year. Which might be good for a two seed with the way the East is looking….

    The Knicks used 3 million on Turiaf trade – they could not buy a pick period. Really only way to get Jae was trade future first rounder for #31,32,33, or 34 pick. 2017 first round pick is what available to trade.

  77. JC Knickfan

    bobneptune: It’s not hindsight, it was argued to death when the steven a smith types were screaming we gotta have melo at any price. Walsh had the knicks in an enviable position with many options til the moment the drunk stepped in and took over the “negotiations”

    Actually referring too keeping Amnesty – not dropping Billups – not signing TC and keeping books clear enough with space sign Paul as FA this coming summer. Of course include amnesty Amare this coming offseason.

  78. ruruland

    Owen:
    Mmmm, basketball season is on…….

    Time to get back on the horse.

    I drafted Jae Crowder in my fantasy league. Why the Knicks didn’t buy a pick and snag him I have literally no idea.

    Also, the WOW is not alone in loving Denver. Pelton has them with the best chance of winning the division, while noting that a bunch of teams have good shots.

    Very exciting to be a member of the Carmelo Anthony Fan club. Lots to look forward to apparently. Going to put my number down on 49 for the number of knicks wins this year. Which might be good for a two seed with the way the East is looking….

    ;)

    Denver prediction this year, all things equal?

  79. sisterray

    Bruno Almeida:
    I still hate the fact that we had to use the amnesty on Billups…

    I mean, Billups played 20 games last season — and wasn’t very good in those games. And having Chandler on board is awesome! Giving up the amnesty in exchange for Chandler was a good deal for the short term — it remains to be seen whether it was dumb in the long term. But surely the real problem was the contract offerred to Amar’e, not the use of the amnesty to grab Chandler.

    Also, at what point do you think the Knicks would have amnestied STAT? Do you think they would’ve pulled the trigger at the end of last season? Do you think they would do it today if they could? Or do you think they’d wait until the end of this season, at which point the returns would have diminished significantly (1 wasted year of Billups and no Chandler vs. Chandler, 2 weak years of Amar’e, and still not much salary cap space at the end).

  80. Brian Cronin

    In retrospect, the Knicks would definitely have preferred to have used the Amnesty on AMar’e instead of Billups and then signed Chandler with the money freed up by amnestying Amar’e. Amnestying Amar’e would also have opened things up with Paul possibly coming to New York. That’s all in retrospect, of course.

  81. Juany8

    Brian Cronin:
    In retrospect, the Knicks would definitely have preferred to have used the Amnesty on AMar’e instead of Billups and then signed Chandler with the money freed up by amnestying Amar’e. Amnestying Amar’e would also have opened things up with Paul possibly coming to New York. That’s all in retrospect, of course.

    If we’re being totally retrospective, the Knicks never should have picked up the option for the last year of Billups’ contract. They literally paid him 10+ million and wasted their amnesty for a guy that gave them nothing for it. Not like Billups was good last year anyways, and I doubt he’ll be much better this year.

  82. sisterray

    Brian Cronin:
    In retrospect, the Knicks would definitely have preferred to have used the Amnesty on AMar’e instead of Billups and then signed Chandler with the money freed up by amnestying Amar’e. Amnestying Amar’e would also have opened things up with Paul possibly coming to New York. That’s all in retrospect, of course.

    Yes, that would have been best in retrospect. But Amar’e was coming off of a great season. The only reasons they would’ve done that at the time would’ve been if they had seen enough stuff on the MRIs that they knew this was bound to happen imminently, or if they knew that Melo and Amar’e don’t belong on the same team. In either case, using the amnesty then would’ve been unwarranted by the information available at the time without admitting that the critics had been right from the start — the Amar’e contract was a bad deal the day it was done, as was the Melo trade.

  83. Kurt

    Regarding the Lakers: I think that would be one team D’Antoni would do well with, aside from Nash. Howard would be the roll man. He’d really make use of Gasol’s big man passing skills, Kobe might respect him enough to minimize going solo. Howard serves as rim protector so that defense won’t be so bad. Also, he’d have Kobe and Nash to serve as his veteran enforcers, so his passive-aggressiveness wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

  84. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Let’s be real about last night’s Lakers game:

    If they shoot 12-31 from the line all year, they’re going to be lucky to hit .500. But there’s no possibility of that happening, even with Howard on the line 10 times a game. Last night maybe wasn’t a well-played game, but they’re not going to be a 35% FT team all year. If they go 70% from the line last night, they win the game, and we’re not sitting here talking about how awful Mike Brown is (although he should not be coaching that team, no way). The Lakers are going to be a good team, especially if Kobe stops taking so many shots (over the course of the season; last night he played extremely well).

  85. Frank

    Kurt:
    Regarding the Lakers: I think that would be one team D’Antoni would do well with, aside from Nash. Howard would be the roll man. He’d really make use of Gasol’s big man passing skills, Kobe might respect him enough to minimize going solo. Howard serves as rim protector so that defense won’t be so bad. Also, he’d have Kobe and Nash to serve as his veteran enforcers, so his passive-aggressiveness wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

    I think D’Antoni would eventually have the same issues in LA that he had here — he doesn’t know how to manage personalities, and in LA you would have baby Howard, infant Kobe, and crazy Artest. Not sure even Nash has enough clout to keep that ship afloat.

    MDA is a great offensive coach, but he had a perfect storm of low-ego high character guys in PHX (and in 10-11 here before the Melo trade). LA is not like that at all, even if a Nash/DH12 PNR would be a sight to behold.

    Re: LA – honestly, I’m not sure they have enough shooting. Kobe is an average 3P shooter at best, Artest is horrible. Nash is awesome of course, but he has never liked to shoot with high volume. And their coach kinda sucks.

    Miami on the other hand — Chalmers, Ray Allen, James Jones, Mike Miller, Battier, Rashard Lewis, Chris Bosh, and even Lebron are all above average 3 point shooters. That is one seriously scary team. Really their only weakness is defending a big with a real post game, but there are no more Olajuwon/Ewing types anymore.

  86. Frank

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: If they shoot 12-31 from the line all year, they’re going to be lucky to hit .500. But there’s no possibility of that happening, even with Howard on the line 10 times a game. Last night maybe wasn’t a well-played game, but they’re not going to be a 35% FT team all year.

    Definitely true, but they could very well go 3-13 from 3 point range A LOT this year. There is very little shooting on this team outside of Nash. They have way less shooting than even the NYK.

  87. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Frank: Definitely true, but they could very well go 3-13 from 3 point rangeA LOT this year. There is very little shooting on this team outside of Nash.They have way less shooting than even the NYK.

    And that certainly is a problem. MWP is not a very good player anymore, and he’s not going to stop chucking just because he has four Hall-bound players around him. But like I said, if they shoot even league average from the stripe (a shot which, I think we can agree, has ZERO interaction effects) they win the game and we’re not even having the “Are the Lakers doomed?” conversation in the first place. It’s a minor case of confirmation bias, I think, when we react this way to one game.

  88. Frank

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: It’s a minor case of confirmation bias, I think, when we react this way to one game.

    agree 100%
    they’ll figure it out somehow, but if I were a betting man, I think I’d probably still take OKC and maybe even Denver over them in a 7 game series. Denver in particular has a lot of frontcourt depth and might be able to run LA out of the building, with Iguodala mostly taking Kobe out of the game.

  89. iserp

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: And that certainly is a problem. MWP is not a very good player anymore, and he’s not going to stop chucking just because he has four Hall-bound players around him. But like I said, if they shoot even league average from the stripe (a shot which, I think we can agree, has ZERO interaction effects) they win the game and we’re not even having the “Are the Lakers doomed?” conversation in the first place. It’s a minor case of confirmation bias, I think, when we react this way to one game.

    Well, we’re overreacting a bit. But Dallas without Nowitzki (and Kaman) should be one of the worst teams around; i’d say they should win that game even if they shoot 12-31 from the stripe.

    Most worrisome is seeing Nash stat line. Only 4 assists and 9 shots (at a low percentage). Still we have to wait if the system pans out; but i think they are misusing their talents.

  90. thenamestsam

    The Lakers reminded me a lot of the Heat when they first brought the big 3 together. The talent is evident, but it’s going to take longer than people expect to figure out how to get everyone playing well at the same time. Remember that 2 years ago the Heat started 9-8 and people were calling for Spoelstra to get fired. Interestingly in both cases a big part of the problem was the guy who should be dominating the offense (Nash/Lebron) being overly passive and deferential towards his teammates. The Heat worked it out eventually, but it’s worth considering that it took them nearly two years to completely solve the puzzle. If it takes the Lakers that long it won’t leave them with much of a window.

    Heat looked really great. Compared to where they were two years ago there’s just so much more depth on that team. They always have good 3 point shooters on the floor, and both Allen and Lewis (who I thought was totally washed up) look a lot better in complementary roles at this point in their careers. That team is going to be a load this year. Lebron’s cramps may be the rest of the league’s best hope.

    Boston on the other hand looked vulnerable to me. I have more belief that we can get to the #2 seed than I did 24 hours ago. They are obviously going to be better offensively, but I feel like they’ve built a worse version of Miami instead of sticking to what made them good in the first place. Last night the only bigs who got minutes were KG(32), Bass(28) and Sullinger (8). I mean talk about going small. At one point Jeff Green was playing center. People still seem to think they’re going to be elite defensively, but to me they look like one of the worst defensive teams in the league when KG isn’t playing. There isn’t a single other guy in the rotation who protects the paint at all. If KG gets hurt at all they’re really going to struggle, and even with him healthy they’re very short up front.

  91. Frank

    thenamestsam: People still seem to think they’re going to be elite defensively, but to me they look like one of the worst defensive teams in the league when KG isn’t playing. There isn’t a single other guy in the rotation who protects the paint at all. If KG gets hurt at all they’re really going to struggle, and even with him healthy they’re very short up front.

    Totally agree. I think it’s quite likely that Doc Rivers mostly punts the season in order to keep KG’s minutes down, then tries to flip the switch late in the season. That’s one reason I don’t think Boston wins the Atlantic — given their excellent recent playoff history and vets, I think they’re less concerned with home court than, say, we or the Nets might be.

  92. Bruno Almeida

    Brian Cronin:
    In retrospect, the Knicks would definitely have preferred to have used the Amnesty on AMar’e instead of Billups and then signed Chandler with the money freed up by amnestying Amar’e. Amnestying Amar’e would also have opened things up with Paul possibly coming to New York. That’s all in retrospect, of course.

    yeah, that’s the point… but anyway, it’s gone now.

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