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Thursday, December 18, 2014

A Very, Very Important and Frighteningly Dense Primer on the Knicks’ Salary Cap and Offseason Spending Issues

Remember when you were literally nodding off in that Econ class you took in college to fulfill a math/sci/quantitative requirement because even though you’re pretty sure you recall someone telling you it was even easier than Geology 101 (aka “Rocks for Jocks”) but either that someone was playing a Romney-esque vicious prank on you or was stoned out of his/her gourd (like he/she was for the other 83% of the time) because in actuality, the aforementioned Econ class was a stone-cold killer and in addition, there was this unfathomably attractive woman who you couldn’t bring up the courage to speak to even if you were spiking your Ramen Noodles with pure testosterone who you thought would be in the class too, but you didn’t realize she was actually a serious math dork (in addition to being acteonizingly pretty) and was breezing though multivariable Calc. so there was no need for Helen of Undergraduate Troy to be seen slumming in the lower bowels of the Econ. Dept. and you couldn’t even distract from the mind-numbing boredom by staring at the achingly curved, practically Pre-Raphaelite back of her neck. Remember? Anyway, the class was “Watching the grass grow so slowly that it has time to accurately prepare a complex tax return”-level dull and despite doing everything in your power short of stabbing yourself repeatedly in the upper thigh with a Bic to stay awake you still barely managed to escape with a passing grade.

Well, you’re going to wish you’d paid a wee bit more attention, because said class would certainly help parsing this ESPN piece from Jared Zwerling on the Knicks’ offseason spending options.

Here’s the killer part:

Currently, the Knicks are about $6 million above the salary cap, which means they’re about $9 million under the apron. If Smith opts out and the Knicks don’t re-sign him, they’ll be about $11.5 million under the apron. If they re-sign Lin for about $5 million, they’ll be about $7.5 million under the apron, which would then create the hard cap.

Then, if Fields re-signs for about $5 million as well, the team will only have about $3 million under the apron to spend on three players. Think about that. About $3 million, three players. Veteran minimum’s deals could suck that right up.

That mid-level exception is more critical than you ever thought. From the season to the offseason, Lin still remains right at the top of the Knicks’ discussion. If you’re a fan of the team, you should be rooting for him to sign for $3 million or less.

 

The full article can be found at the Mothership here.

By Jeezum Crow, if that’s not a giant pigeon poop in our collective bowl o’ Cheerios I dunno what is.  Especially if some Russian Oligarch/Nouveau Hipster offers a back-loaded deal to hang with Jay-Z for the next four years. Things certainly got a jot more interestinger ’round these parts. Stay tuned…

**LATE UPDATE: So now Howard Beck via the NY Times just dropped a serious scoop. The Union is challenging how Bird Rights are determined in the cases of players claimed on waivers, like Lin and Novak, which would render the entire above article moot. In a nutshell…if they can use the bird rights on Lin and Novak then they can exceed the cap if they move their clothes down onto the lower peg immediately after lunch, before they write their letter home, if they’re not getting their hair cut, unless they’ve got a younger brother who is going out this weekend as the guest of another boy, in which case, collect his note before lunch, put it in the letter after they’ve had their hair cut, and make sure he moves your clothes down onto the lower peg for you

59 comments on “A Very, Very Important and Frighteningly Dense Primer on the Knicks’ Salary Cap and Offseason Spending Issues

  1. ephus

    If I have read Coon correctly, then the article misses an important point: the Knicks can game the system by resigning Lin BEFORE they resign JR Smith and Landry Fields. According to Coon, team salary for purposes of determining the non-taxpayer MLE and/or BAE is determined after the player is signed, but does not include any cap holds for free agents. Instead, for RFAs (like Fields) only the amount of the qualifying offer is included. For UFAs (like Smith), nothing counts towards the team salary.

    Although there are significant restrictions that come into effect once a team is above the apron, those restrictions do not limit the ability to use Early Bird rights (Fields) or non-Bird rights (Smith). There would only be a small window between the time that Smith opted out of his player option (until then Smith’s salary is on the books) and when he was resigned. Once the Knicks are over the apron, they would lose the BAE (bye-bye Novak), but if they could get Lin and Novak signed before they sign Smith and Fields, they would not be subject to a hard cap.

    Apologies in advance if I have gotten any of this wrong.

  2. ROUGH

    “If you’re a fan of the team, you should be rooting for him to sign for $3 million or less…”

    Yep, Lin for 3 million or less, J.R hofefully for less than 2.5 million, Novak hopefully for TV Guide annual subscription, Fields hopefully for a coffee and a donut!!! All this, while three primadonnas suck up almost 95 percent of the salary cap! Comedy of the absurd! Didn’t the person(s) who signed those three think about this situation?

  3. ROUGH

    Robtachi: Wait, we’re calling Tyson Chandler a primadonna now?

    I see the argument in its entirety, without isolating Tyson who is otherwise a great addition but in this situation contributing to a totally clogged the salary cap.

  4. Frank

    Do you guys realize how huge this arbitrator would be for us?
    Imagine our entire team back +/- JR, but adding Steve Nash and another BAE type guy? That’s what could very plausibly happen if the arbitrator rules in favor of the NBPA.

  5. Robert Silverman Post author

    Frank:
    Do you guys realize how huge this arbitrator would be for us?
    Imagine our entire team back +/- JR, but adding Steve Nash and another BAE type guy? That’s what could very plausibly happen if the arbitrator rules in favor of the NBPA.

    It’s a monster. It basically is the difference between contending or being stuck as the mid-80’s Hawks in terms of the Knicks’ potential

  6. d-mar

    Frank:
    Do you guys realize how huge this arbitrator would be for us?
    Imagine our entire team back +/- JR, but adding Steve Nash and another BAE type guy? That’s what could very plausibly happen if the arbitrator rules in favor of the NBPA.

    This would be a major game changer, time for Dolan to get involved!

  7. max fisher-cohen

    The one thing that is important no matter what is let’s assume the most likely optimistic scenario: Lin for $5m/year, Fields for $3m/year. Assuming they pick up Shumpert’s option in summer of 2013, that would put the Knicks at about $67m in salaries with only 6 players under contract. With I think 6 500k cap holds for the empty roster spots, that puts the Knicks at $70m cap figure or $1m short of the full MLE, so for those hoping to sign an MLE player in 2013, you have to either not re-sign Fields at all or else maybe you can get him for 1 year @ $5m with a 2013 team option for several more years.

    Any multi-year deals for more than the rookie minimum of $500k and they amount available is further reduced.

    That’s not good seeing as how next year we’re going to be pretty thin off the bench, much thinner than this year, since with only minimum contracts to offer we’re unlikely to get equal replacements for all of Novak, Jeffries, Smith, and Davis. We were kind of counting on 2013/14 being the year we could have some depth…

  8. TelegraphedPass

    Is there really a danger of us shelling out $5m to keep Landry? I’m not 100% sure I’m comfortable giving him $3m per, much less 5. Am I missing something here?

  9. TelegraphedPass

    Oh, and can we ban the use of the word “primadonna” in regards to athletes in any sport ever? #Hoopidea

  10. JC Knickfan

    Based on what written, it doesn’t look good.

    Early Bird player
    “Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent” means a Veteran Free Agent who, prior to becoming a Veteran Free Agent, played under one or more Player Contracts covering some or all of each of the two (2) preceding Seasons, and who either exclusively played with his Prior Team during such two Seasons, or, if he played for more than one Team during such period, changed Teams only (i) by means of trade, or (ii) by signing with his Prior Team during the first of the two (2) Seasons.

    “Traded Player” means a player whose Player Contract is assigned by one Team to another Team other than by means of the NBA waiver procedure

  11. JC Knickfan

    max fisher-cohen:
    The one thing that is important no matter what is let’s assume the most likely optimistic scenario: Lin for $5m/year, Fields for $3m/year. Assuming they pick up Shumpert’s option in summer of 2013, that would put the Knicks at about $67m in salaries with only 6 players under contract. With I think 6 500k cap holds for the empty roster spots, that puts the Knicks at $70m cap figure or $1m short of the full MLE, so for those hoping to sign an MLE player in 2013, you have to either not re-sign Fields at all or else maybe you can get him for 1 year @ $5m with a 2013 team option for several more years.

    Any multi-year deals for more than the rookie minimum of $500k and they amount available is further reduced.

    That’s not good seeing as how next year we’re going to be pretty thin off the bench, much thinner than this year, since with only minimum contracts to offer we’re unlikely to get equal replacements for all of Novak, Jeffries, Smith, and Davis. We were kind of counting on 2013/14 being the year we could have some depth…

    If do rule in Union favor.
    Correct me if I’m wrong, are you allowed to over Apron w/ Bird rights player?

    Use MLE (Veteran PG), BAE (Defensive PF) them resign Lin, Novak and Fields. Trade 2nd rd + 3 million and move up draft. Draft besting player available probably SF/SG. Make sure contract 2 year with 3rd team option. Boom we have team for next 3 years. We probably sign JJ to veteran’s min given knee issue and age.

  12. callmened

    So i understand basketball very very well…hoever this part of bball i have no clue. Correct me if im wrong…in a nutshell…

    1. Jr is leaving cuz he has a player option and his broke ass can get paid more elsewhere (good riddens)

    2. Fields can resign for about 3mil and it wont count for the cap

    3. We can use the midlevel exception..to sign either nash dragic or lin. Most likely well use it for lin. If we do…were hoping he signs for less than 3mil so we hv more money to spend

    Right?

    What is the chance that we can keep lin…sign dragic and get rid of fields?

  13. TelegraphedPass

    callmened:
    So i understand basketball very very well…hoever this part of bball i have no clue. Correct me if im wrong…in a nutshell…

    1. Jr is leavingcuz he has a player option and his broke ass can get paid more elsewhere (good riddens)

    2. Fields can resign for about 3mil and it wont count for the cap

    3. We can use the midlevel exception..to sign either nash dragic or lin. Most likely well use it for lin. If we do…were hoping he signs for less than 3mil so we hv more money to spend

    Right?

    What is the chance that we can keep lin…sign dragic and get rid of fields?

    1. No. JR may leave. He may not. He has given zero indication that he intends on leaving and actually repeatedly has voiced his desire to stay. Do not slander our sweet sweet JR plz.

    2. No, it absolutely would count.

    3. Who knows what offer Dragic will get. Nash has his choice of anywhere between the minimum and $10 million to sign wherever he pleases. Whether he comes here is mostly dependent on if he believes he can contend here.

    Keeping Lin and signing Dragic is impossible: Both would command the MLE. However, if the case previously mentioned by several smart KBers passes in favor then we can resign Lin using Early Bird rights and have our MLE available for Dragic maybe or Nash if he wants it.

    FWIW I don’t particularly care for Dragic to be signed here and start over Lin. Dragic has had a small sample size to show his value as well and had inconsistent stretches between his first show out in the playoffs for PHX and now. I’m not convinced Dragic runs this team better than Lin.

  14. johnlocke

    That’s all great and good but the only way we bc a legit championship contender is to trade amare for an expiring 2013 contract and acquire Chris Paul, Josh Smith or Griffin in that order in 2013.

  15. callmened

    THANKS

    I hear you about dragic but what you just said (small sample size) applies to lin as well

    How does this salary cap talk apply to draft picks. We jus have 2nd rder

  16. TelegraphedPass

    johnlocke:
    That’s all great and good but the only way we bc a legit championship contender is to trade amare for an expiring 2013 contract and acquire Chris Paul, Josh Smith or Griffin in that order in 2013.

    Wut? If we signed Chris Paul, I’d absolutely want Amar’e. How do Carmelo and the Point God synergize their offense? Paul wants PnR men (like Tyson Chandler/Griffin) and spot up shooters (like Belinelli/Foye or David West) so he can penetrate and create. We lose Melo post-ups and isos and replace with spot up shooting, where he’s mediocre. I don’t see it.

  17. TelegraphedPass

    callmened:
    THANKS

    I hear you about dragic but what you just said (small sample size) applies to lin as well

    How does this salary cap talk apply to draft picks. We jus have2nd rder

    Yeah, my point isn’t that I don’t want Dragic cuz I don’t trust the sample size. I believe he can play, and he’s a starting PG in this league. My point is that he hasn’t shown himself to be better than Lin to the extent that I’d be willing to damage the continuity and relegate Jeremy to the bench. Nash is clearly better than Lin. Dragic hasn’t been.

    Great point raised about our 2nd rounder tho. I believe it would count against us after selection (about half a mil). Any smarter people here to weigh in on this?

  18. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Why wouldn’t Nash go to Miami if they offer him the full MLE? No state tax, winter in Miami, playing next to, like, five amazing shooters and a host of awesome low-usage guys instead of working for James Dolan.

    Maybe I’ll eat those words, but if I were Nash, I’d go to the team already smashing through the playoffs instead of the one that just got bounched like they were an NBDL team.

  19. TelegraphedPass

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Why wouldn’t Nash go to Miami if they offer him the full MLE? No state tax, winter in Miami, playing next to, like, five amazing shooters and a host of awesome low-usage guys instead of working for James Dolan.

    Maybe I’ll eat those words, but if I were Nash, I’d go to the team already smashing through the playoffs instead of the one that just got bounched like they were an NBDL team.

    It seems to make more sense. The only reason I can see is that Nash can really be NASH somewhere else. In MIA, he’s got to deal with all sorts of ball-handling guys and I feel like his role would be more spot up shooter supreme than his normal one. Maybe he wants that idk.

  20. JC Knickfan

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Why wouldn’t Nash go to Miami if they offer him the full MLE? No state tax, winter in Miami, playing next to, like, five amazing shooters and a host of awesome low-usage guys instead of working for James Dolan.

    Maybe I’ll eat those words, but if I were Nash, I’d go to the team already smashing through the playoffs instead of the one that just got bounched like they were an NBDL team.

    Miami over apron with $78,522,600. I think you lose your MLE.
    He recently divorced and does live NYC in summer. There is remote chance he come if offer full $5 mil – 3years.

  21. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    TelegraphedPass: It seems to make more sense. The only reason I can see is that Nash can really be NASH somewhere else. In MIA, he’s got to deal with all sorts of ball-handling guys and I feel like his role would be more spot up shooter supreme than his normal one. Maybe he wants that idk.

    I can’t even imagine what his eFG% would be with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade driving to the hoop and kicking out.

  22. cgreene

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Why wouldn’t Nash go to Miami if they offer him the full MLE? No state tax, winter in Miami, playing next to, like, five amazing shooters and a host of awesome low-usage guys instead of working for James Dolan.

    Maybe I’ll eat those words, but if I were Nash, I’d go to the team already smashing through the playoffs instead of the one that just got bounched like they were an NBDL team.

    Great example of you being wrong. Lebron and Wade are not great shooters. Also making Nash the playmaker negates Lebron’s effectiveness as the playmaker.

  23. Jafa

    From what I read in the article, this is what I gather:

    If past behavior is any indication of future behavior, then JR Smith is as good as gone to the highest bidder.

    We are giving Lin the full MLE (I’m not buying the “take $3M or less” line one bit. I’m a Knicks fan and I would not advise him to do that. Max out your $s, especially when MSG is maxing out $s on Lin related merchandise).

    Why can’t we simply give Fields a 20% raise and call it a day? Who’s our competition for his services?

    Novak is also gone as the $1.9 M bi-annual exception would probably be his 5th best offer. Plus, our last Novak (extra E) left at the sign of more money last year, so there is a precedent here.

    So all we will have to work with is our $1.9 M bi-annual exception and Dollan $s to buy 2nd round picks (I anticipate we need two). Then we can either call up one of our 2nd round picks that we stashed away or resign either Jefferies or Walker.

    Can’t wait for the offseason!

  24. d-mar

    After years and years of setting illegal screens, Kevin Garnett finally gets called for one with 10 seconds left and the Celtics lose. I guess when you completely flatten a guy, the refs have no choice but to make the call (except of course in game 1 vs. NY last year!)

  25. Jafa

    Yay! I don’t know what it is about the Celtics but I just don’t like them. I’d rather watch the Heat win a title that watch the Celtics win. And watching the Heat win won’t be a pleasant experience.

  26. StatsTeacher

    d-mar:
    After years and years of setting illegal screens, Kevin Garnett finally gets called for one with 10 seconds left and the Celtics lose. I guess when you completely flatten a guy, the refs have no choice but to make the call (except of course in game 1 vs. NY last year!)

    Don’t forget Shump gets a technical for “taunting” when KG does that, literally, 20 times a game. He’s just an ass at this point in his career.

  27. callmened

    This offseason is gonna suck. Sounds like were severely limited in options. Well lose novak and jr..keep jj and walker….geezzzz

    Now we hv to rely on 2nd rd pics. If thats the case i hope we draft will buford from ohio st or fab melo

  28. d-mar

    Jafa:
    Yay!I don’t know what it is about the Celtics but I just don’t like them.I’d rather watch the Heat win a title that watch the Celtics win.And watching the Heat win won’t be a pleasant experience.

    If the Celtics-Sixers series goes to a game 7, the final score might be 50-49.

  29. max fisher-cohen

    johnlocke:
    That’s all great and good but the only way we bc a legit championship contender is to trade amare for an expiring 2013 contract and acquire Chris Paul, Josh Smith or Griffin in that order in 2013.

    This is not possible unless you essentially punt next season entirely by not re-signing or signing anyone this summer for more than one season. There are two numbers that matter. There’s the salary cap: about $58m, and there’s what used to be called the luxury tax threshold but I guess is now called the apron (since it now does more than just trigger the luxury tax). That number is $74m.

    However much you’re below the salary cap is how much you can offer free agents. Here’s what the Knicks’ roster would look like in summer of 2013 if they traded STAT for an expiring and didn’t re-sign Fields or Lin:

    Carmelo Anthony: $21.5m
    Tyson Chandler: $13.6m
    Iman Shumpert: $1.8m
    Cap holds for 9 empty roster spots: $4.5m
    Total: $41.5m
    Cap space: $16.5m
    Maximum contract for Paul: $17.5m

    So MAYBE Paul or one of those other guys would take a $1m pay cut, but do you really want to throw away a season hoping Paul will come play for your mediocre team for less overall money?

  30. Brian Cronin

    What the hell is an apron…fancy word for sal cap?

    Apron is the point over the luxury tax where exceptions disappear. The NBA gives teams leeway to use their Mid-Level (or other exceptions like the Bi-Annual) to go over the luxury tax a bit, but just not more than $4 million (the so-called “apron”).

  31. chrisk06811

    if it helps, I will sign for the veterans minimum. I will waive my bird rights, as well as my mchale rights, my robey rights, and my cornbread maxwell rights. All I ask is a KB T-shirt, and after a blowout, a “Hi Chris” from Robert when I hoist up 4 3’s in my 2 mins of garbage time

  32. callmened

    Any chance we sign felton as a backup?….geez

    I never realized the knix were this cap strung! We need to get better..a back up pg sg and size

    Thats all i ask

  33. TelegraphedPass

    callmened:
    Any chance we sign felton as a backup?….geez

    I never realized the knix were this cap strung! We need to get better..a back up pg sg and size

    Thats all i ask

    Wait… A back up PG and SG and size? So like an entire bench, yes? That’s all you ask?

  34. max fisher-cohen

    Brian Cronin: Apron is the point over the luxury tax where exceptions disappear. The NBA gives teams leeway to use their Mid-Level (or other exceptions like the Bi-Annual) to go over the luxury tax a bit, but just not more than $4 million (the so-called “apron”).

    So apron is $74m and tax threshold is $70m and cap is $58m? K. I keep messing up on this new CBA.

  35. StatsTeacher

    Celtics lose, KG whines, and OKC takes the wood to World Peace and Co. . . . . .nice. Whatever drug Westbrook is taking, I want some.

  36. Brian Cronin

    So apron is $74m and tax threshold is $70m and cap is $58m? K. I keep messing up on this new CBA.

    Yep. The big thing about the apron is that the owners didn’t want teams trying to time it (which is very easily done) so that, say, their cap holds all added up to under the luxury cap but then they would sign one guy to the MLE, one guy to the Bi-Annual and then re-sign two of their own guys to Bird extensions and suddenly increase their cap from, say $65 million to $85 million all in one offseason. The apron rule makes it so that you can’t do that. You’d be stuck once you hit $74 million. As I mentioned earlier, the owners really hate the MLE.

    Once you’re over the apron, you can then make more moves the next season (like sign vet free agents and extend guys with Bird Rights and use the mini-MLE), but you’re stuck the season you actually use up the apron (provided that you use the full Mid-Level. It is the full Mid-Level that the owners absolutely do not want teams to use so they are making it very difficult to use it).

  37. patrick

    i’ve been coaxed out of my long time lurking by that beck article.

    isn’t there an issue that even if we do get (early) bird rights on lin and novak, and subsequently use them to resign both of them, we would go over the apron and lose the mle?

    at the moment, as i understand it, if we sign lin (mle) and fields to £5m contracts we only have enough room for the biannual, jr opting in and a couple of vet mins at most. now fields isn’t going to get £5m but if you give lin £5m and fields and novak up to £5m (fields £2m and novak £3m for example) you are in the same spot as you were without using the mle. however, if you were then to use the mle, wouldn’t that take you over the apron, meaning you would lose it?

    if that’s the case what we are talking about is the ability to sign novak for £3m (for example) and still hoping for JR to opt in, compared to signing novak for the BAE of £2m. now that might be the difference between novak coming back or not, but it doesn’t make the difference for jr, or adding nash for example.

    of course the main difference would be the ability to sign both nash and lin if you let landry and novak go (still hoping on jr to opt in).

    have i got this right?

    that said, it all looks pretty academic as the language quoted in the cba looks pretty much in the league’s favour.

  38. patrick

    ok, so some quick calculating later, here is what we could do:

    existing cap including balkman’s money:

    just under $60m

    jr opts in + $2.5m, or as the ESPN article shows, more likely opts out and gets existing salary +20% = $63m

    lin $5m

    nash $5m mle

    $73m on 10 players – minimum of 12 needed. so two second round picks and you’re there.

    however, if you were to trade douglas you would have that $2m to spend on someone else (fields?), or be able to offer two vet min contracts. douglas would have to be traded for a second rounder, or a future pick, in order to avoid salary coming back.

    either way, if you use the bae, then you go over the apron. my conclusion is that you can do nash and lin, but you have to lose novak and one of fields or douglas (who would obviously have to be traded). personally i’d try to keep fields- i think if he can regain his shooting a bit then he can be an effective player, however frustrating some of his play was this year.

  39. Brian Cronin

    that said, it all looks pretty academic as the language quoted in the cba looks pretty much in the league’s favour.

    Yeah, I don’t see how this is even a real debate. It clearly says that the rights only transfer with a trade. I mean, I’d be thrilled if it were not the case (and I think it is fairer to have it transfer with waivers), but I just don’t see how the players think that they can win this.

  40. callmened

    So it sounds like if we lose novak and tdoug or fields…(id rathr hv fieilds simply cuz tdoug is useless now) then we can sign lin and dragic or felton(nash is a pipe dream..plus u would hv to start him and hold back lin)

  41. Brian Cronin

    Dragic is not going to sign for the Bi-Annual Exception, either. So he is a pipe dream, as well. Heck, Felton even should make more than $2 million on the open market.

  42. callmened

    Wide awake working nite shift……..

    Anyways just heard on j.max show that theres some type of loop hole in the cba. Players r arguing that if u can retain ur bird rights (signing a player over the salary cap) when picking up a player…then u should be able to retain those bird rights when picking up a player via waivers (lin). Therefore the 5mil MLE can b used on someone else..nash dragic felton miller nelson..etc

  43. Frank

    sidestep:
    Is there any info about who or what party is handling the arbitration?

    Not that I’ve seen. One can only hope that it is friendly to us, but like Brian said, I can imagine this is how the arbitration will go:

    Union: “Players picked up don’t get to choose where they go, so it’s like a trade”

    NBA: “Read the paper”

    Union: “Even NBA GMs didn’t think this is what the rule was supposed to be”

    NBA: “Read the paper”

    Union: “The whole country wants to see Lin to Novak for 3! Discount Triple-Check!”

    NBA: “Read the paper”

    So I don’t think there is much chance here, but who knows?

    Even if the ruling goes against us and Novak walks (which I unfortunately think is likely) I still think it’s entirely possible we end up with the team looking like this:

    C: Tyson (13.6) , Jordan (760K), Jeffries (1.5 vet’s min)
    PF: Amare (20), Harrellson (760K)
    SF: Melo (19.9), Fields (1.5), Pietrus or Delfino (1.5 vet’s min)
    SG: Shumpert (1.6), JR (3)
    PG: Lin (5), Bibby (1.5 vet’s min), TD (2)

    Total salary = $73.12M
    Below apron but above luxury tax

    The following season we would have options on Jordan/Harrellson, and could presumably not resign all the vet’s min guys. Would be pretty close to tax line even so.

  44. ephus

    The 2011 CBA is not online, but the 2005 CBA does not include an explicit definition of “trade.” There is the definition of “Traded Player”, which is quoted in @12, which excludes players who move on waivers. In order to qualify for Early Bird rights, a player must have played for his Prior Team (the team trying to exercise Early Bird rights) for two years, or have changed teams “by means of a trade.” The NBPA is going to argue that changing teams by means of a waiver claim is changing teams “by means of a trade”, but the problem is that such a player is excluded from the definition of Traded Player.

    In short, I do not think this clever argument will carry the day.

  45. Jafa

    @49,

    Totally agree Frank. That challenge by the union has about as many legs as a snake. As for your proposed lineup for next year, a couple of questions:

    Is Jeffries the best we can do in terms of big man off the bench help @ the minimum?

    Won’t there be a bigger market for JR (at least someones MLE)?

    Is Bibby the best we can do for back up PG help?

  46. cgreene

    ephus:
    The 2011 CBA is not online, but the 2005 CBA does not include an explicit definition of “trade.”There is the definition of “Traded Player”, which is quoted in @12, which excludes players who move on waivers.In order to qualify for Early Bird rights, a player must have played for his Prior Team (the team trying to exercise Early Bird rights) for two years, or have changed teams “by means of a trade.”The NBPA is going to argue that changing teams by means of a waiver claim is changing teams “by means of a trade”, but the problem is that such a player is excluded from the definition of Traded Player.

    In short, I do not think this clever argument will carry the day.

    I don’t think they will try and argue the definition of traded player. I think they will try and argue that if the player is playing under the same contract meaning they weren’t resigned by the new team that they should get all the rights that would be afforded on that contract which would include early bird.

  47. cgreene

    cgreene: I don’t think they will try and argue the definition of traded player.I think they will try and argue that if the player is playing under the same contract meaning they weren’t resigned by the new team that they should get all the rights that would be afforded on that contract which would include early bird.

    Just to add to that there is a difference for when a player clears waivers and is unclaimed. That player is an FA and has to sign a new contract. A player that does not clear such as Lin is playing under his original contract and that contract in this case includes early bird rights. That’s what the union will argue. That is a stronger case than trying to expand the definition of Traded Player. Maybe not strong enough…

  48. Jafa

    Possible back-up PG options @ the minimum that may be better than Bibby:

    Jonny Flynn – Hopefully Portland just lets him walk. Wouldn’t he be open to coming home and trying to shape a new course for his career?
    Ishmael Smith – I hope Orlando has to pay a lot of money for Jameer Nelson. And with Duhon on the roster already, they might just let him walk.
    Sundiata Gaines – hard to see the Nets fighting hard to keep him.
    A.J. Price – with 2 legit PGs on their roster already, don’t they let him walk?
    Royal Ivey – Fisher as their veteran back-up PG makes him extinct right?
    T.J. Ford
    Anthony Carter
    Jamaal Tinsley

  49. ephus

    cgreene: A player that does not clear such as Lin is playing under his original contract and that contract in this case includes early bird rights. That’s what the union will argue. That is a stronger case than trying to expand the definition of Traded Player. Maybe not strong enough

    Nope, that will not work, because the player contract does not “include Early Bird rights”. Early Bird rights are not set forth in individual player contracts, they are set forth in the CBA. The CBA (if it follows the formulation set forth in the 2005 CBA) sets a salary cap, and then provides for defined exceptions. If you do not fit into one of those exceptions, the salary cap prevents a team from signing you. The relevant exception here is the Early Bird exception, which is explicitly limited a player who has played at least part of the prior two seasons for the team trying utilize the Early Bird rights, unless the player changed teams “by means of a trade.” So the union will argue that a player who moved based upon a waiver claim moved “by means of a trade” because just like in a trade, the player had no control over which team he would play for.

    I hope that the arbitrator buys the argument, because I would love for the Knicks to have Early Bird rights to Lin and Novak. I just doubt that it will happen.

  50. daJudge

    If the term “traded player” was defined in the 1995 CBA, but is not defined in the new agreement, that will help a great deal. I do not know whether this is true, but if the prior definition excluded a waived player from that class defined as a traded player (which it apparently did), and has now been stricken either from the definition or that the definition of a “traded player” is stricken altogether, the arbitrator is left to ponder the intent and spirit of the provision. This would certainly open up a door, at least a crack. Further, if the definition were omitted, it is fair (and common) to conclude that it was omitted on purpose, as intent can be inferred/implied. That intent could be because the distinction between a so-called “traded player” and a “waived” player is wholly without substance and the two classes of player should be afforded equal protection and treatment under the CBA. IMO, it would be much more likely to be a F.Up by management drafters, which would accrue heavily in our favor. That would be very sweet indeed.

    cgreene: I don’t think they will try and argue the definition of traded player.I think they will try and argue that if the player is playing under the same contract meaning they weren’t resigned by the new team that they should get all the rights that would be afforded on that contract which would include early bird.

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