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Sunday, October 26, 2014

A Look Back at Past Knicks Summer League Teams

The Las Vegas Summer League is right around the corner, and with it a multitude of drafted and undrafted rookies, overseas journeymen and long-tenured veterans looking to show onlooking NBA teams that they belong in The Association. The common fan usually pays little attention to the amateurish basketball being played, but team fanatics and basketball junkies like myself look to the Summer League to eye out the next Draft sleeper or imported surprise.

The Knicks have finalized their Summer League roster, and will kick off their 2013 campaign tomorrow against New Orleans. Whether you’re the type who thinks Summer League wholly unnecessary, or if — like me — you’ve longed for live professional basketball since the Finals came to a close, I give you a look into the Knicks’ past Las Vegas Summer League seasons, to see how meaningful the men playing in these glanced-over contests have been to the New York Knicks.

2007: Nate Robinson took home the LVSL’s MVP award in 2007 as a member of the Bockers, and went on to play the third-most minutes on the team in the following regular season. Robinson solidified himself as an NBA-level spark plug, utterly dominating the lesser competition in Vegas with averages of 19 points, 6 assists and — shockingly — 3.5 boards a night on 48% shooting.

Alongside Robinson was the young Wilson Chandler, who began his journey from raw athlete to one of the more versatile role players in basketball in Vegas. Chandler put up 13 points and five boards a night on 50% shooting, showing glimpses of a three-point stroke that would one day become quite formidable — he hoisted just 10 treys, but made four. Other recognizable names are Renaldo Balkman and Randolph Morris, however their careers as NBA players never panned out as they hoped.

2008: Although he played in just one contest, this was where Knick fans who weren’t able to catch Danilo Gallinari play across the Atlantic finally caught a look at the sixth overall pick. Gallo struggled early, but after putting down a two-handed putback slam, went on to score 14 points, grab 6 boards and shoot 45% from the field. Unfortunately, he left the game with an injury and was unable to compete in the final four games of the 2008 LVSL. His rookie season was plagued by injuries, but he eventually developed into quite the impressive player for New York and, currently, Denver.

There were other bright spots this summer as well, with Chandler once again coming in and showing off his potential — hi 16 points and nearly eight boards a game were both team highs. The following year Chandler started in 70 games, playing 33 minutes a night and averaging 14 points a contest.

The other was Anthony Roberson (if you remember this name, we should be very good friends), a 6’2” sharp-shooter who was the second-leading scorer in the 2008 Summer League, later signing with the Knicks but rode the bench until he fell off the face of the NBA world in a mid-season trade.

2009: Ah yes, the birth of Toney Douglas. Oh yeah and that nobody Jordan Hill. Back in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Knicks went for the highest-valued player at their 8th overall pick after their golden boy — Stephen Curry — was picked just before them. (Hate you, Golden State.) They settled on Jordan Hill, and then went on to buy the 29th overall pick from the Lakers and drafted guard Toney Douglas. Hill was the highly-anticipated big man prospect while Douglas was the “I just hope he’s decent” prospect. In the 2009 LVSL, it was actually Douglas who got Knick fans excited and Jordan Hill who made us wheeze.

Both shot extremely poorly but Douglas hounded opposing ball handlers with such energy and effectiveness he found a huge role with the team for the next three seasons, even being named the team’s starter with Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire at the beginning of the lockout-shortened 2012 season. As for Hill, he was traded for Tracy McGrady in his rookie season in a move to create cap space for 2010. (Side note: WHY, WHY did we have to trade Hill in this deal? Well, GM Donnie Walsh didn’t want to at the time, but Jim Dolan in all his excellency pushed Walsh to succumb to Houston’s demands and ship him to complete the swap. Sure he was pretty bad in his rookie year, but big men don’t develop as quickly as wings or guards in this league. Knicks fans who relished this guy being traded, you should know he put up an efficient double-double per-36 minutes with the Lakers this season.)

2010: Now this was a fun Summer League season. Second-round picks Landry Fields and Andy Rautins took to the floor and the Stanford wing set the stage to become a full-time starter for the brand spanking new Bockers in his rookie campaign. (The two also shared their own mini-series show type deal when the regular season began, which was actually enjoyable.) Fields averaged 15 points and just under 5 boards a night on 52% field goal shooting, and went on to be named a starter for the Knicks, even receiving two Rookie of the Month awards. Rautins got his own website: DidAndyRautinsPlayLastNight.com. That was an actual thing.

Toney Douglas was back at it, this time with improved shooting percentages and in return, a bigger spot in the Knicks’ rotation despite it not being filled with a boat-load of scrubs for the first time in years. We also met Bill Walker, who found himself to be a full-time Knick after being drafted by their rival Boston Celtics and traded to New York. Walker was a three-point shooter with the ability to dunk on fools with ease, and actually grew into a rotation player with the Knicks for two years before fading into obscurity. Also on the Knicks roster in this season of Summer League ball was the tall, raw, lanky and raw center Jerome Jordan, who the Knicks traded for as a second-round draftee and will actually return to the Knicks’ LVSL roster this year as he still strives to find his path to the NBA. Did I mention he was raw? Jordan averaged 14 points and 9 boards on over 60% shooting per-36 minutes in his first Summer League campaign.

Finally there was Marcus Landry. Oh, Marcus Landry. His story was heart-warming, coming to New York with his own cash as an undrafted rookie with no place to stay, all in hopes of cracking the Knicks roster at a tryout. The brother of NBA role player supreme Carl Landry, Marcus got his spot as a Knick but was traded to the Celtics in the aforementioned deal sending Walker to New York.

2011: LVSL cancelled due to the lockout. Damn it, Stern.

2012: Just one name you really need to know. Chris Copeland. The legend of Cope actually began here in the Summer League, when he led the team in scoring at 13 points a game on 47% shooting and was invited to training camp. The rest of course, is rather recent history. We also saw Jerome Jordan back yet again, but he was unable to sign a contract with the Knicks because of being traded to Houston barricading his return with a one-year mandate.

Finally, we were given JR Smith’s little brother, Chris Smith. Or rather, we were given the reason as to why he wasn’t drafted and why Knicks fans were enthused that he didn’t step on the court this past season. “Little Pipe” (dubbed by our Mike Kurylo) displayed no effectiveness on the defensive end, an undersized frame and bad JR Smith’s shot selection with 2013 Playoffs JR Smith’s scoring ability. Chris shot a meager 29% from the field and dished out less than 2 assists a game despite playing a lot of point guard. Oh, and he’ll be playing for the Knicks’ LVSL team this year! Woo-hoo!

All of this is to say, Las Vegas Summer League games shouldn’t be treated as if they mean nothing. I’d advise close examination by fans who would usually skip or skim through the contests in previous years this time around, especially with the roster the Knicks have put together this year. Iman Shumpert will be playing and it would be tough to bet against him winning the league’s MVP award. Newly-drafted rook Tim Hardaway Jr. will look to make his name, as well as the undrafted C.J. Leslie, who has impressed many with his ridiculous athleticism and has recently signed with the Knicks. Jerome Jordan and Chris Smith are making their returns, both looking to prove they have NBA-level games. These names won’t be making any headlines in May, but some could very well help the team make it that far.

101 comments on “A Look Back at Past Knicks Summer League Teams

  1. Frank

    speaking of summer league ex-knicks, I don’t think we should discount the possibility that Toney Douglas might be a target. He’s obviously not a real PG but as a guy to bring the ball up, play D, and hit the occasional 3, he’s definitely worth a vet’s minimum if all the other more-PG-like targets go elsewhere.

  2. yellowboy90

    hr signed with gs which I think is a good move for them. The Warriors put together a good off season so far.

  3. Hubert

    Man, I got excited thinking this would be a trip in the way back machine to those REALLY past summer league teams.

    Anyone here remember the old Doral Arrowwood summer league the Knicks would host at Westchester County Arena in the early 90’s? It was kind of the forerunner to the current summer league, but it was a lot smaller. Knicks, Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Bullets, and I think the Bucks. When I was a kid we couldn’t afford real Knicks tickets so my dad would take me to these. It was a 5,000 seat arena and you’d get to see quite a few players you knew play scintillating no-defense basketball. Kenny Anderson, for instance, played there after his rookie year when he was already a pretty established star and killed it.

    Greg Anthony was like the veteran PG of the league. He got sent there for his first three seasons. In ’92 he hit a buzzer beater to beat the Celtics for the Summer League Championship and the Arena went bonkers.

    I don’t remember Starks, but I definitely remember Anthony Mason putting on a show in 93. Saw Hubert Davis, my namesake, make his debut there, too. Such a sweet shot. Charlie Ward, Monty Williams, Eric Anderson, Bo Kimble were some other guys. And I remember Doc Rivers coaching a Knicks team in 94 with his cast still on (that was the year he broke his hand and we got Harper).

    Other notable non-Knicks: Tom Guggliotta was a star there one year for Washington. Clarence Weatherspoon (the program dubbed him “the next Charles Barkley”). Shawn Bradley. Calbert Cheaney. Rex Walters. Acie Earl.

    Anyway, just a nostalgiac trip down memory lane. Anyone else go to those things? They were awesome.

  4. David Vertsberger Post author

    Hubert:
    Man, I got excited thinking this would be a trip in the way back machine to those REALLY past summer league teams.

    Anyone here remember the old Doral Arrowwood summer league the Knicks would host at Westchester County Arena in the early 90?s?It was kind of the forerunner to the current summer league, but it was a lot smaller.Knicks, Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Bullets, and I think the Bucks.When I was a kid we couldn’t afford real Knicks tickets so my dad would take me to these.It was a 5,000 seat arena and you’d get to see quite a few players you knew play scintillating no-defense basketball.Kenny Anderson, for instance, played there after his rookie year when he was already a pretty established star and killed it.

    Greg Anthony was like the veteran PG of the league.He got sent there for his first three seasons. In ’92 he hit a buzzer beater to beat the Celtics for the Summer League Championship and the Arena went bonkers.

    I don’t remember Starks, but I definitely remember Anthony Mason putting on a show in 93.Saw Hubert Davis, my namesake, make his debut there, too.Such a sweet shot.Charlie Ward, Monty Williams, Eric Anderson, Bo Kimble were some other guys.And I remember Doc Rivers coaching a Knicks team in 94 with his cast still on (that was the year he broke his hand and we got Harper).

    Other notable non-Knicks: Tom Guggliotta was a star there one year for Washington.Clarence Weatherspoon (the program dubbed him “the next Charles Barkley”).Shawn Bradley. Calbert Cheaney. Rex Walters. Acie Earl.

    Anyway, just a nostalgiac trip down memory lane.Anyone else go to those things?They were awesome.

    This sounds all of the awesome. Stupid me being born so late.

  5. Hubert

    Haha! I don’t mean to sound like one of those “it was better back when…” guys, but that summer league was pretty awesome.

  6. danvt

    and another incredible post, wow.

    Hubert: Man, I got excited thinking this would be a trip in the way back machine to those REALLY past summer league teams.
    Anyone here remember the old Doral Arrowwood summer league the Knicks would host at Westchester County Arena in the early 90?s? It was kind of the forerunner to the current summer league, but it was a lot smaller. Knicks, Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Bullets, and I think the Bucks. When I was a kid we couldn’t afford real Knicks tickets so my dad would take me to these. It was a 5,000 seat arena and you’d get to see quite a few players you knew play scintillating no-defense basketball. Kenny Anderson, for instance, played there after his rookie year when he was already a pretty established star and killed it.
    Greg Anthony was like the veteran PG of the league. He got sent there for his first three seasons. In ’92 he hit a buzzer beater to beat the Celtics for the Summer League Championship and the Arena went bonkers.
    I don’t remember Starks, but I definitely remember Anthony Mason putting on a show in 93. Saw Hubert Davis, my namesake, make his debut there, too. Such a sweet shot. Charlie Ward, Monty Williams, Eric Anderson, Bo Kimble were some other guys. And I remember Doc Rivers coaching a Knicks team in 94 with his cast still on (that was the year he broke his hand and we got Harper).
    Other notable non-Knicks: Tom Guggliotta was a star there one year for Washington. Clarence Weatherspoon (the program dubbed him “the next Charles Barkley”). Shawn Bradley. Calbert Cheaney. Rex Walters. Acie Earl.
    Anyway, just a nostalgiac trip down memory lane. Anyone else go to those things? They were awesome.

  7. TDM

    yellowboy90: hr signed with gs which I think is a good move for them. The Warriors put together a good off season so far.

    TDDWTDD signed a 1yr / $1.6m deal. This is really just sad that we may end up with someone worse than Toney as our pg3.

  8. yellowboy90

    I wonder if the knicks can use the Barrons in a S&T to get a cheap piece that has a few years on their contract.

  9. danvt

    TDM: TDDWTDD signed a 1yr / $1.6m deal. This is really just sad that we may end up with someone worse than Toney as our pg3.

    Something tells me he should not come back. I think NY gave him the yips. It might be that someone is going to fall to us who was holding out for more. Also, when you think about it, our first six players are a lock anyway. Prigs, Felton, Shumpert, Chandler, Anthony as starters and then JR. Then Stat and Bargs come in. That’s eight. Hopefully Artest now. (Has he been amnestied yet?) So, it’s going to be hard to get a pedigree NBA pg in here to be 10th man. Let’s hope Toure Murray shows us something tomorrow. He’ll be THRILLED to be 10th-15th man.

  10. Loathing

    yellowboy90:
    I wonder if the knicks can use the Barrons in a S&Tto get a cheap piece that has a few years on their contract.

    Why not just bring back Barron as the backup 5? I know his career numbers suck, but he’s a different player as a Knick…a double-double machine as a Knick.

  11. Hubert

    What’s the timetable on this Artest thing? When will we know if he makes it through amnesty waivers?

    After reading RuRu’s write up in the other thread, I suddenly feel like he’s the final piece to the puzzle and our entire season hinges on acquiring this Hulk-like beast who will pair with Shumpert to strike fear into perimeter players.

  12. yellowboy90

    the Lakers have to amnesty him 1st. I think it’ll take arou.d two days to know after that. See Tyrus, he was amnestied yesterday and tomorrow he may free.

  13. d-mar

    I’m picturing Artest and JR on the court at the same time, and the words “high basketball IQ” don’t immediately come to mind (actually the “high” part does)

  14. chrisk06811

    What I try to do in life is prepare myself in case I want Steph Curry and he’s not available. Like, if I’m in Mc Donalds, and they have no cherry pies, I think about it and decide between a shake and a parfait. I don’t just blot out “fuck it…..just give me jordan hill”

  15. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Hubert:
    Anyway, just a nostalgiac trip down memory lane.Anyone else go to those things?They were awesome.

    I never went to those games but this did bring to mind one of my favorite basketball experiences as a teenager when my father took me to the Daily News Golden Hoops tournament at Columbia, maybe in ’94 or ’95. There was one team that had Shaheen Holloway, Tim Thomas, Vasily Evtimov, Kareem Shabazz, and Wille Dersch (I also went to Adidas 5-Star camp with Dersch and fuck…that dude could shoot the 3). Thomas put up 40+ in one game but played ZERO defense and alternated between loafing and vigorously showboating and my pops HATED him. Kept telling me he never wanted to see me play like that guy. Halcyon days for a NYC basketball junkie.

  16. Vinny L.

    Sorry Woodson, you can’t get your old geezer because of Pablo Bumioni. Thank Grunwald:

    Point guard Chauncey Billups agreed Thursday to a two-year deal to return to the Detroit Pistons.

    The first season of Billups’ contract is guaranteed — for $2.5 million in 2013-14.

    Crickets from the Knick front office today. They did introduce Bargnani to the NY media –> via conference call! LOL!

    2014 Eastern Conference:

    1. Miami Heat
    2. Indiana Pacers
    3. Chicago Bulls
    4. Brooklyn Nets
    5. New York Knicks

    SMH!

  17. Keniman Shumpwalker

    d-mar:
    I’m picturing Artest and JR on the court at the same time, and the words “high basketball IQ” don’t immediately come to mind (actually the “high” part does)

    True. But the HIGH likelihood of HIGHlarious HIGHjinks in post game press conferences and locker room interviews would be pure gold. The NYC club scene is salivating, as well.

  18. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Vinny L.:
    Sorry Woodson, you can’t get your old geezer because of Pablo Bumioni. Thank Grunwald:

    Point guard Chauncey Billups agreed Thursday to a two-year deal to return to the Detroit Pistons.

    The first season of Billups’ contract is guaranteed — for $2.5 million in 2013-14.

    Crickets from the Knick front office today. They did introduce Bargnani to the NY media –> via conference call! LOL!

    2014 Eastern Conference:

    1. Miami Heat
    2. Indiana Pacers
    3. Chicago Bulls
    4. Brooklyn Nets
    5. New York Knicks

    SMH!

    Hmmm…maybe we should look into Nate Robinson. I mean, I’m just spitballing here.

  19. flossy

    d-mar:
    I’m picturing Artest and JR on the court at the same time, and the words “high basketball IQ” don’t immediately come to mind (actually the “high” part does)

    I don’t think Artest lacks basketball IQ. I think he’s clinically insane and that can manifest in poor decisions sometimes. Like Kenyon Martin, though, he’s a very savvy defender who could really be a boon to our “switch everything” system.

  20. danvt

    Epic. I’m really enjoying these stories. I never saw any minor league basketball as a kid. Now, you have to go to travelocity and spend your life savings getting to Vegas. Life has changed. I did scrimmage with a retired Dean “The Dream” Meminger in Middle School.

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I never went to those games but this did bring to mind one of my favorite basketball experiences as a teenager when my father took me to the Daily News Golden Hoops tournament at Columbia, maybe in ’94 or ’95. There was one team that had Shaheen Holloway, Tim Thomas, Vasily Evtimov, Kareem Shabazz, and Wille Dersch (I also went to Adidas 5-Star camp with Dersch and fuck…that dude could shoot the 3). Thomas put up 40+ in one game but played ZERO defense and alternated between loafing and vigorously showboating and my pops HATED him. Kept telling me he never wanted to see me play like that guy. Halcyon days for a NYC basketball junkie.

  21. thenamestsam

    Vinny L.:
    Sorry Woodson, you can’t get your old geezer because of Pablo Bumioni. Thank Grunwald:

    Point guard Chauncey Billups agreed Thursday to a two-year deal to return to the Detroit Pistons.

    The first season of Billups’ contract is guaranteed — for $2.5 million in 2013-14.

    Crickets from the Knick front office today. They did introduce Bargnani to the NY media –> via conference call! LOL!

    2014 Eastern Conference:

    1. Miami Heat
    2. Indiana Pacers
    3. Chicago Bulls
    4. Brooklyn Nets
    5. New York Knicks

    SMH!

    C’mon man. If you’re really going to devote all your posting efforts to trolling about Prigoini you really have to do better than Bumioni. That’s some seriously weak shit. Pigioni? Shitioni? I don’t want to tell you how to do your job, but I think you need to put in some more effort if you really want to make Pablo hating your full-time schtick.

  22. Hubert

    Vinny, Pablo is a lot better than Chauncey Billups right now, and he cost less.

    I actually wanted Chauncey for the vets min and thought he’d be a decent 5th guard, then some of the posters here smartly pointed out that Woodson would likely wear him down and keep playing his corpse in the playoffs, a la Kidd. Glad we missed out.

  23. Vinny L.

    @Hubert

    Pablo is better than Chauncey now. I’m just making the point about the market. Even Woodson can’t get his old geezers he wants: Billups, Brand, possibly K-Mart.

  24. JK47

    If the Knicks signed Nate, the Eastern Conference would look like this:

    1. New York Knicks
    2. Everybody else quits the season and folds their franchise out of fear

  25. Frank O.

    In the end, summer league hasn’t been terribly meaningful to me.
    We had guys who went off in summer and didn’t do anything with the team.
    JR, Artest and or Nate…yeah, flammable. The highs would be so very high and the lows? I could see brawls in the stands or in the locker room.

    Also, i fear TDWTD in NY, which means he’s got mental issues. He’s been as bad for as as Duhon. No thanks.
    options are slim if this is what we’re talking about.

  26. thenoblefacehumper

    TDDWTDD signed with GSW if I’m not mistaken. I actually would’ve been happy with him as 3/4th guard. I wonder what kind of deal Nate will end up signing. How hilarious would it be if he actually falls to us? What would Vinny do with his life?

  27. flossy

    Wow, Drummond has 15 and 12 at the half in this summer league game…

    Hey THCJ, if it lasts more than 4 hours, see a doctor!

  28. danvt

    Vinny L.: I didn’t mention Nate ONE time on that thread.

    You’ve been non stop on Nate vs. Prigioni. The thing is, despite Nates well documented heroic play at times, I think the best criticism of his game has been from the crowd that says, lets see him be consistent for a whole season. As to the idea of the Knicks acquiring him, he would have come for the whole MLE probably, and he would have wanted more than a year, probably. So, the “trade” would have been Copeland and Prigioni for Nate. Now, as to Prigioni, I think you’re right that one on one Nate’s a better player than Pablo. But Prigioni actually has nice range and a good dribble. Plus, he sees the court really well. I believe he’s a better fit since we already have JR and Raymond who can do what Nate does with better efficiency than Nate (at least JR). Now, as to Copeland, instead of losing him for one chucker we have a chance of replacing him at a better value than two years six million, which really seems an awful lot for him. We may get Artest for the Vet min. which is certainly a better value!

    Also, you could use a little bit of humble, my friend. There are a lot of really amazing writers on this site. Just read and hope you’re worthy. If you have something to add, do it. But reiterating the same point over and over, especially when it’s no slam dunk, is annoying.

  29. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Also, Vinny, while you may not have mentioned Nate in that thread, you’ve yet to post anything other than some version of “Pablo sucks, waste of money, we should have signed Nate (or some other shitty, low-efficiency, non-PG-PG). You fail to grasp the concept of value as it relates to team context. You occasionally bring up hollow stats like PPG and APG to illustrate your point, and never respond to any criticism of your ideas with a substantive, well thought out, well researched post. So, yeah, I’m going to continue to mock your irrational Pablo hate and uber-irrational N8 luv until you give it a rest and move on to the next topic.

  30. Vinny L.

    All I’m saying is:

    Darren Collison > Prig
    Will Bynum > Prig
    Nate Robinson > Prig
    Tyler Hansborough > than all senior citizen PF’s pushing 40
    Insert other good players going for 3 mill per this offseason here:_______

    The only way I see the Knicks making some noise this offseason is if Nate Robinson (or Aaron Brooks), World Peace, and Samuel Dalembert somehow falls into their laps.

    The Knicks are worried about Kenyon now, but I would focus on getting a backup for Tyson: Dalembert. Tyson is the anchor. Tyson has to be preserved for the playoffs.

    Knicks could then bring in Jerome Jordan and Gani Lawal.

  31. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Vinny L.:
    All I’m saying is:

    Darren Collison > Prig
    Will Bynum > Prig
    Nate Robinson > Prig
    Tyler Hansborough > than all senior citizen PF’s pushing 40
    Insert other good players going for 3 mill per this offseason here:_______

    The only way I see the Knicks making some noise this offseason is if Nate Robinson (or Aaron Brooks), World Peace, and Samuel Dalembert somehow falls into their laps.

    The Knicks are worried about Kenyon now, but I would focus on getting a backup for Tyson: Dalembert. Tyson is the anchor. Tyson has to be preserved for the playoffs.

    Knicks could then bring in Jerome Jordan and Gani Lawal.

    Listen, I’m absolutely on board with Artest and could get behind Brooks as our 3rd PG and Dalembert as a true 5 to spell Tyson (even though his persistent laziness worries me). But I heartily disagree that Collison, Bynum, or Nate are better options FOR OUR TEAM CONTEXT as the primary backup PG than Pablo is. They all posses greater athleticism and maybe raw talent as well but none of those three are A) true PGs B) efficient or C) Defensive +s. Now, as the 3rd PG, I could live with any of those 3 because we do need someone who can adequately run the PnR and can also shoot off the bounce, something that Pablo doesn’t do at all and Felton doesn’t do well.

  32. Frank

    No chance Dalembert gets to us even if we give him $1.7. With Dallas having lost out on Bynum and Kaman gone to LA, they’ll probably sign Dalembert. They have oodles of cap space they have to spend.

    I think it’s likely we end up with Kenyon back, which is not a bad thing. And meanwhile, after there were all those reports that Brand wouldn’t take our offer, there’s been zero out there about any other offers. So maybe he’s still in play.

    And btw I think we are all obsessing too much over this 3rd PG. Who really worries about a 3rd PG? Especially since we have 3 other guys that can be primary ballhandler in a pinch (Melo, JR, Shump)?

    The biggest issue IMHO is a defensive big. Everything else is a luxury.

  33. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Frank:
    No chance Dalembert gets to us even if we give him $1.7. With Dallas having lost out on Bynum and Kaman gone to LA, they’ll probably sign Dalembert. They have oodles of cap space they have to spend.

    I think it’s likely we end up with Kenyon back, which is not a bad thing. And meanwhile, after there were all those reports that Brand wouldn’t take our offer, there’s been zero out there about any other offers. So maybe he’s still in play.

    And btw I think we are all obsessing too much over this 3rd PG. Who really worries about a 3rd PG?Especially since we have 3 other guys that can be primary ballhandler in a pinch (Melo, JR, Shump)?

    The biggest issue IMHO is a defensive big.Everything else is a luxury.

    I would absolutely agree with that. Bigs should be priority #1 & #2. I’d be happy with K-Mart/Artest, given our financial constraints.

  34. danvt

    I’d like to think that Prigioni could get us a bucket or two in any meaningful way on a basketball court. He shoots a set shot which is a little slower than a jump shot and with a lower release point but I think he can and should do more shooting off the dribble. Obviously, any type of shot for him is a change of pace which is how it should be. Felton finishes well too. If he’s too far out his numbers go down but he gets layups. Both pgs can finish. I think the value of the third one is in case of emergency and with 82 games plus four rounds of playoff basketball you can expect an emergency.

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I could live with any of those 3 because we do need someone who can adequately run the PnR and can also shoot off the bounce, something that Pablo doesn’t do at all and Felton doesn’t do well.

  35. Frank

    it’s a little weird that Artest hasn’t been amnestied yet. Maybe they’re having second thoughts? What would be the point of not doing it by now if they’ve already decided? Maybe they’re waiting as long as possible so Western Conference teams have to either bite or delay on other FAs while waiting for whether or not it happens?

  36. Keniman Shumpwalker

    danvt:
    I’d like to think that Prigioni could get us a bucket or two in any meaningful way on a basketball court.He shoots a set shot which is a little slower than a jump shot and with a lower release point but I think he can and should do more shooting off the dribble.Obviously, any type of shot for him is a change of pace which is how it should be.Felton finishes well too.If he’s too far out his numbers go down but he gets layups.Both pgs can finish.I think the value of the third one is in case of emergency and with 82 games plus four rounds of playoff basketball you can expect an emergency.

    I would love to see Pablo add a little floater/teardrop he could go to consistently. I can’t see him speeding up his release a this point, thereby allowing him to competently shoot mid-rang jumeprs off the dribble, but that floater would be a valuable addition to his repertoire.

  37. danvt

    Frank: Maybe they’re waiting as long as possible so Western Conference teams have to either bite or delay on other FAs while waiting for whether or not it happens?

    I think patience would be a virtue, anytime they say, but right now especially. Not our FO’s strong suit.

  38. danvt

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I can’t see him speeding up his release a this point, thereby allowing him to competently shoot mid-rang jumeprs off the dribble, but that floater would be a valuable addition to his repertoire.

    +1

  39. BigBlueAL

    Nice recap of recent Knicks Summer League teams. Looking forward to watching the current team, not just for TH and Leslie but curious to see if Jordan or Tyler make an impact and earn training camp invites.

  40. MJG1789

    Frank:
    it’s a little weird that Artest hasn’t been amnestied yet. Maybe they’re having second thoughts? What would be the point of not doing it by now if they’ve already decided? Maybe they’re waiting as long as possible so Western Conference teams have to either bite or delay on other FAs while waiting for whether or not it happens?

    Kobe gave an interview in which he said he would not take a pay cut after next year, expecting a raise. Which means more than half the salary cap would go to him. Maybe the Lakers, in light of this, are thinking of doing the previously unthinkable?

  41. Brian Cronin

    Kobe gave an interview in which he said he would not take a pay cut after next year, expecting a raise. Which means more than half the salary cap would go to him. Maybe the Lakers, in light of this, are thinking of doing the previously unthinkable?

    I took that Kobe comment as…if not an outright joke, a distortion of the truth based on his irritation with people acting like they know what he is going to do. Sort of like “Screw people who assume they know what I’m doing…even if they’re absolutely correct.”

  42. MJG1789

    I assume you’re right, Brian, and logically you have to be. It was just weird. He’s a sociopath, but he’s not crazy.

  43. domiknick

    Peter Vecsey ?@PeterVecsey1 12m

    This just in: Nets have signed. Kirilenko for mini mid-level, 3.1M per

  44. PC

    I LOVE that Vecsey breaks news while at dinner, for no employer whatsoever. He’s probably the most interesting follow on twitter.

    Nets are prettay, prettay, stacked for this years title run

  45. max fisher-cohen

    Man, if we could have had AK for the mini MLE, I would have definitely let Prigioni walk.

  46. Juany8

    Damn that’s a bummer about Andrei, I hadn’t even thought about him this whole time but he’s a nice player. Nets are suddenly looking kind of stacked if pierce and garnet can squeeze one last all star caliber season.

  47. Juany8

    On the other hand, prigs is invaluable with no other point guard options, does anyone really want Felton to be the only point guard on this team making above the min? Knicks have players who can play kirilenko’s positions.

  48. maxwell_3g

    at this point, aren’t we best just picking up unknowns from NBDL or overseas and hoping for the best. that’s how we got starks. that’s how we got mason. that’s how we got lin. that’s how we got cope. im so glad we didn’t get billups, etc (all other old players with no upside). the only player that I wish to make and exception for artest, because a season with JR, artest (oh hell, add Nate too), all being coached by Mr. Potato Head holds so much potential for extreme _____(joy, pain, bewilderment, entertainment, confusion)

  49. BigBlueAL

    max fisher-cohen:
    Man, if we could have had AK for the mini MLE, I would have definitely let Prigioni walk.

    I think its safe to say only the Nets were getting AK for the mini MLE.

  50. massive

    Andrei Kirilenko has to be getting paid under the table by Prohkorov. Has to be. I refuse to believe that a player who could get at least $7-8 million and be a starter would take a 70% pay-cut to be a reserve.

    And they’re probably legitimately better than us now. I’m not okay with that.

  51. BigBlueAL

    Already reading tweets from writers talking about how plenty of other teams are already complaining about this AK signing. Think Stern investigates this??

    MWP officially amnestied too.

  52. BigBlueAL

    massive:
    Andrei Kirilenko has to be getting paid under the table by Prohkorov. Has to be. I refuse to believe that a player who could get at least $7-8 million and be a starter would take a 70% pay-cut to be a reserve.

    And they’re probably legitimately better than us now. I’m not okay with that.

    Of course he is, Prokhorov was his owner when AK played in Russia from 1998-2001 from what I read. He declined a 10m option to stay with the Wolves and signs for the mini MLE for the Nets?? C’mon.

  53. domiknick

    As much as I’d like it to happen, how exactly would one go about investigating if the Russian owner and the Russian player have some shady, under the table deal going on? It’s not like there’s going to be some smoking gun email that exists that says, “I promise to pay you an extra 8 million that isn’t a part of your contract.”

  54. Vinny L.

    @TMD

    AK is being paid over in Mother Russia lol…David Stern is on his way out so he doesn’t care to investigate.

  55. Juany8

    The more simple way to pay him under the table would be to guarantee him a lucrative contract on some Russian team when he’s too old for the NBA. Not particularly unlikely, and much harder to detect than money coming in now. Still, if the heat can get away with getting everyone on their team for under market value, why cant the nets?

  56. bidiong

    What a bunch of crap. Probably is going to give him rights to some oil fields or something.

  57. Brian Cronin

    LOVE that Vecsey breaks news while at dinner, for no employer whatsoever. He’s probably the most interesting follow on twitter.

    It’s absolutely hilarious.

  58. Brian Cronin

    As much as I’d like it to happen, how exactly would one go about investigating if the Russian owner and the Russian player have some shady, under the table deal going on? It’s not like there’s going to be some smoking gun email that exists that says, “I promise to pay you an extra 8 million that isn’t a part of your contract.”

    And yet hilariously enough the T-Wolves did exactly that with the Joe Smith trade. It’s like the ol’ Wire joke “Are you taking notes at a criminal conspiracy?”

  59. d-mar

    I don’t know, even with the addition of AK47 I’m just not buying into all the Nets hype. They are going to be so damn slow at both ends, Pierce, Garnett, Lopez aren’t exactly guys who can get up and down the floor, and Johnson is really only useful in a half court set offense. I think the book on the Nets will be to run and run some more.

    Of course, they won’t take nearly as much heat as the Knicks did for having the oldest team in the NBA, even though most of our old guys barely played.

  60. jon abbey

    honestly, the Nets could sweep the Knicks in the playoffs, go on to win a title, and a good chunk of the people here would still be like “dunno why they get all this media attention”.

  61. ruruland

    I’m having a hard time finding an under the cap team that would find it prudent to put in a bid for Artest.

    All of the contenders and big market teams are out, and I don’t see why it would behoove a small market team to do something stupid like pay for a mentally disturbed veteran player who doesn’t want to play for you.

  62. Vinny L.

    @d-mar

    The Knicks were dead last in fastbreak points during the regular season……

    “Who’s the best under-the-radar free agent left on the market?”

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130711/analyzing-andrew-bynum-cleveland-cavaliers

    Feldman: Nate Robinson. Someone give this man a job. The ultimate change-of-pace point guard, Robinson is a ball of energy you can unleash when you’re down big and need to increase variance. An improved outside shooter, protector of the ball and defender, he’s increasingly dependable in other situations, too.

  63. ruruland

    I can see Artest signing as FA with Clippers, but Knicks have bigger need. And he wouldn’t play much for Brooklyn. Seriously, Knicks make the most sense at this point. I think if he’s captured on waiver it would be surprise.

  64. ruruland

    Vinny L.:
    @d-mar

    The Knicks were dead last in fastbreak points during the regular season……

    “Who’s the best under-the-radar free agent left on the market?”

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130711/analyzing-andrew-bynum-cleveland-cavaliers

    Feldman: Nate Robinson. Someone give this man a job. The ultimate change-of-pace point guard, Robinson is a ball of energy you can unleash when you’re down big and need to increase variance. An improved outside shooter, protector of the ball and defender, he’s increasingly dependable in other situations, too.

    Seriously shocked he hasn’t gotten good offer by now.

  65. Brian Cronin

    I’m having a hard time finding an under the cap team that would find it prudent to put in a bid for Artest.

    All of the contenders and big market teams are out, and I don’t see why it would behoove a small market team to do something stupid like pay for a mentally disturbed veteran player who doesn’t want to play for you.

    Cavs and Bucks wouldn’t be nuts. That said, yes, I believe he gets through, as well.

  66. bidiong

    So we will likely be blessed with Ron Artest for a year. Would be funny to have him,JR, and Kenyon on the same team. We’d definitely get Nate if this goes through.

  67. bidiong

    It just makes logical sense at this point. Might as well just have the craziest team I’m the NBA.

  68. AvonBarksdale

    The fact lil’ nate can’t get an offer is absurd he was his most professional last season and had sick contributions on both end during playoffs, literally he played sick..he clowned a lot over the years but i think early on people thought they couldn’t afford him or he would sign somewhere but talk about getting left in the dust…is there any chance in hell we get MWP, KMART and NATE? how does that money work, does MWP even want to go for less than min. to make that work or it just seems too good to be true. Any references of ”
    The Wire” greatly appreciated.

  69. AvonBarksdale

    Anyone down to do some kind of twitter outreach campaign for Artest? He might use that to make his decisions he is silly like that.

  70. Vinny L.

    bidiong:
    It just makes logical sense at this point.Might as well just have the craziest team I’m the NBA.

    Yup. Stars are aligning this way so might as well go with the flow and embrace it. Except that if it was me a would’ve got the ball rolling sooner with the acquisition psyco T. Add Dalembert and then we go to war. We might not win a chip but it sure will be entertaining. HA!

  71. ess-dog

    Metta officially amnestied.

    Turiaf basically just got a 1.7mil a year contract from Minny.
    Makes me think we can get Kmart back if we want him.

  72. ruruland

    AvonBarksdale:
    Anyone down to do some kind of twitter outreach campaign for Artest? He might use that to make his decisions he is silly like that.

    He’s made it pretty clear he’ll play for Clippers or Knicks or he’s retiring.

  73. Brian Cronin

    It sort of kills me that he likely would fit better with the Clips. They have more of a need at the forward spot now that they no longer have Butler, Hill or Odom (well, they might still end up with Odom, but still, they’re down Hill and Butler). Hopefully his New York ties makes him come here! And, of course, hopefully no under the cap team makes a bid for him. He’d fit in really well in Cleveland, so that’s scary.

  74. Brian Cronin

    Also, how in the fuck did the Lakers get Nick Young for the minimum?! I mean, I am faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from a Nick Young fan, but for the vet minimum? Dang! Honestly, I bet the Lakers are pitching a lot of middle of the road guys on the fact that “Hey, we’ll have a bunch of cap space next summer. If you play for us for a year, you can A. spotlight yourself for a bigger deal, since we’re the Lakers and B. maybe get some of our free agent money next year.”

  75. Brian Cronin

    Hehe, Jon, I think even you’d have to agree that the media attention on the Nets is a bit overboard when an ESPN poll of 19,809 respondents asking “Which team is the biggest threat to the Heat in the Eastern Conference next year?” got the following response:

    23% Bulls
    39% Nets
    30% Pacers
    8% Another team

    39%?! Seriously?!

    And the Knicks weren’t even an option?

  76. Brian Cronin

    Also, it’s hilarious that the Nets couldn’t acquire Bojan Bogdanovic so their “back-up” was Ak-freakin’-47!!!! Nuts!

  77. yoda4554

    Brian Cronin:
    Hehe, Jon, I think even you’d have to agree that the media attention on the Nets is a bit overboard when an ESPN poll of 19,809 respondents asking “Which team is the biggest threat to the Heat in the Eastern Conference next year?” got the following response:

    23% Bulls39% Nets30% Pacers8% Another team

    39%?! Seriously?!

    And the Knicks weren’t even an option?

    Before the 2011-2012 season, shortly after the Knicks signed Chandler, ESPN had a poll asking “Which three players would you rather have, James-Wade-Bosh or Anthony-Stoudemire-Chandler?” Anthony-Stoudemire-Chandler won and it wasn’t even close–margin was around 2-to-1, IIRC.

    Then the actual season happened and people got averse to being bullish on the Knicks for a bit.

  78. Frank

    Brian Cronin:
    It sort of kills me that he likely would fit better with the Clips. They have more of a need at the forward spot now that they no longer have Butler, Hill or Odom (well, they might still end up with Odom, but still, they’re down Hill and Butler). Hopefully his New York ties makes him come here! And, of course, hopefully no under the cap team makes a bid for him. He’d fit in really well in Cleveland, so that’s scary.

    I think if given the choice it’s a no-brainer for him to come to the Knicks. He’s pretty much made it clear throughout his career that he remains a huge Knicks fan — basically always wears Knicks hats. I still have a feeling that Cleveland bids on him. They have a glaring hole at SF still (unless they think they’re playing Bennett there), and Brown knows him well from his time in LA and also in Indiana. In fact, if the Cavs DON’T bid on him that would be a red flag to me because between Brown and Bynum, they have intimate knowledge of what Ron Ron was like in the locker room etc.

    Ruru brought up a good point on twitter though – lack of available roster spots for MWP. Cavs already have 17 players on their roster if you count their 3 draft picks. They’ll already have to dump 2 players just to make the 15.

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