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Tuesday, October 15, 2019

5-on5: Dwight and the Knicks

…. Ok, it’s not ALL about Dwight to the Knicks, but a few of us discussed this whole Dwight debacle over at the Mothership, and the scenario inevitably came up.

Dwight and Hedo (and his expiring albatross contract) for Melo and Chandler (and possibly other flotsam). Who says no?

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87 comments on “5-on5: Dwight and the Knicks

  1. Steve Carmichael

    The recent developments of Melo being disgruntled and requesting a trade are what I consider to be utter bullshit. I highly doubt after fighting for the trade to New York for almost a year, that he is ready to peace out.

    The trade idea will get thrown around, and I think Jim brought up the one that makes the most sense. However, Dolan will not admit defeat and trade a piece that he was essential in receiving in the first place.

    Colin Cowherd said a quote this morning, “Winning is the makeup that covers all blemishes in sports.” Losing releases demons, and the “FIRE PERSON X AND TRADE PLAYER X” reaction to every losing streak is getting old. Relax people.

  2. Frank O.

    from realGM:
    Sources close to the Knicks say the team needs to make a coaching change to replace Mike D’Antoni.

    Stephen A. Smith said on ESPN that he would be surprised if D’Antoni isn’t replaced within the next few days.

    Phil Jackson has been frequently mentioned as a successor, but Jerry Sloan could also be a candidate.

    Sources say Sloan would be interested in coaching the Knicks. Several teams pursued Sloan this past summer.

    Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219725/Sloan_Would_Be_Interested_In_New_York_Job#ixzz1p6z894WK

  3. Frank O.

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. (AP)—Carmelo Anthony said Wednesday he doesn’t want to be traded, denying a report that he would welcome an exit from New York.

    “No, no, no, no. Let’s nip this in the bud right now. No,” Anthony said after the Knicks’ morning shootaround.

    “I don’t know where that came from. I’m tired of hearing it. It came out this morning from I guess an anonymous source. I’m tired of anonymous sources. I don’t want to be traded. I don’t know where that foolishness came from, so let’s put a cap on that and make this the last time I hear about that.”Anthony also denied there is a rift with Mike D’Antoni, saying he supported the coach “100 percent.”

    The Knicks have lost six in a row, with Anthony taking much of the blame. The back page of Wednesday’s New York Post ran a headline saying “Melo Wants Out!” The trade deadline is Thursday, a little more than a year after the Knicks acquired Anthony from Denver.

    But Anthony called the report “nonsense,” adding that he’s faced adversity throughout his career and “I’ve never ran from it and I’m not about to pick today to start running from it.”

    “I’ve only been here a year,” Anthony added. “I don’t want to leave right now, so I’m here to stay.”

    Anthony also said he believes fellow players and team officials prefer he stays, saying he received text messages from teammates asking him about the story and telling him they don’t want him to go.

    According to the Post, Anthony became so discontent with the Knicks after Monday’s loss in Chicago that he told a confidant that he preferred to be dealt. The report said he was unhappy in part because he believed D’Antoni and interim general manager Glen Grunwald do not trust him.

    “I don’t think that’s true at all,” forward Amare Stoudemire said. “Melo loves the city of New York, he loves playing for the Knicks. So I don’t think that’s true at all.”

    NBA players are fined for making public trade requests, so Anthony couldn’t say if he wanted to leave, anyway.

  4. New Guy

    I hear this trade thrown out there constantly and it drives me insane. Why do we have to throw in Chandler for Hedo? Who’s got a better offer on the table than Melo straight up for Howard?

    (I’m not advocating a Chandler-Howard-Amar’e frontline, but if we got Howard and had to move Chandler, I’m sure we can get a better player than Hedo Turkoglu.)

  5. Frank O.

    My opinion: the team is putting out leaks, which they then can use as a pretense to do something…
    Gullf of Tonkin

  6. Owen

    Lost in all the commotion over the trade deadline, but….

    Are we even making the playoffs this year?

    I don’t love Ellis but he is certainly an upgrade on two guys who weren’t playing at all. Plus, Udoh should pair nicely with Gooden, Mbah a Moute, Sanders, and the rest of the uglies on the Bucks bench. Skiles should be able to put him to work.

    Plus, the schedules aren’t favorable.

    I have to say, never thought the playoffs would be in doubt ten days ago….

  7. Mulligan

    I like Caleb’s suggestion that D’Antoni leaked the rumor rather than Melo’s camp. Not that I believe it, but the reasoning behind it – that Melo loses more by this being in the press – makes sense to me. Now he has even more scrutiny about playing along, showing support etc… All I’m saying is, I wouldn’t be surprised if the spacing is better tonight and Melo’s more willing to take the 3.

  8. TheRant

    Frank O.: Stephen A. Smith said on ESPN that he would be surprised if D’Antoni isn’t replaced within the next few days.

    Since I can vividly recall Stephen A. Smith as one of the “wise basketball minds” saying a year ago that “you got to do it!” about trading the entire team for Melo, can’t we ignore that putz for another year or two?

    Why do people listen to him?

  9. ruruland

    Frank O.: My opinion: the team is putting out leaks, which they then can use as a pretense to do something…Gullf of Tonkin

    Or irresponsible reporters are manipulating the words of people who are either frustrated or don’t know what they’re talking about.

    Melo said all the right things and let’s hope his meeting with MDA went well and it was cathartic to get some things out— I get that sense after watching melo talk about it.

    Either scenario is possible. There’s clearly smoke, but it’s hard to say where the fire and how many.

  10. Owen

    Seriously, I have never been made more angry by something said on TV than by SAS saying that about Melo….

    “you’ve got to do it”!!!

  11. villainx

    I like D’Antoni, and I think it’s only a matter of time before the Knicks do much better or post wins for their efforts.

    But a coaching change wouldn’t be horrible. Especially if it management ain’t going to be keeping D’Antoni anyway.

  12. ruruland

    New Guy: I hear this trade thrown out there constantly and it drives me insane. Why do we have to throw in Chandler for Hedo? Who’s got a better offer on the table than Melo straight up for Howard? (I’m not advocating a Chandler-Howard-Amar’e frontline, but if we got Howard and had to move Chandler, I’m sure we can get a better player than Hedo Turkoglu.)

    Howard’s clearly a great player, but in many respects he’d be as underutilized and mis-managed as Melo is now, given MDA’s unwillingess to bend the offense.

    Something that needs to be considered.

  13. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Re: talking heads

    “That’s a great profession. You never have to be right. And you still get to keep your job.” – Stan Van Gundy

    Look, it’s your own fault if you pay attention to people like Stephen A. Smith.

  14. ruruland

    Carmelo Anthony Insists He Does Not Want a TradeBy JAKE APPLEMAN
    Published: March 14, 2012
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    DiggRedditTumblrPermalink. GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Carmelo Anthony, the only Knicks player dressed in black practice gear, shot down rumors that he wanted to be traded at the team’s practice Wednesday morning.

    Keep up with the latest news, on the court and off, with The Times’s basketball blog.

    Go to Off the Dribble
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    “No. No. No. No. Let’s nip this in the bud right now,” he said, before adding a fifth and final no.

    “I don’t know where that came from. I’m tired of hearing it,” Anthony said. “It came out this morning from, I guess, an anonymous source. I’m tired of anonymous sources. I don’t want to be traded. I don’t know where that foolishness came from. So let’s put a cap on that and make this the last time I hear about that.”

    Anthony played down the Knicks’ recent six-game losing streak, admitting it was frustrating but calling it “a little adversity” and “a little bump in the road.” Anthony said he gave his support to Knicks Coach Mike D’Antoni, refuting reports that he wanted D’Antoni fired after last year’s playoff loss to the Boston Celtics.

    “I do hear it, I do read it,” he said of the rumors. “It gets frustrating at times to hear some of the stuff that’s being said about me.”

    “I was getting texts from guys on the team, about: ‘What is this?’ ‘What are we hearing?’ ‘You know, we don’t want you to go nowhere.’ ‘Why this is being said?’ ‘Why this? Why that?’ ”

    His teammates who spoke Wednesday morning all came to his defense. “I don’t think that’s true at all,” Amar’e Stoudemire said of Anthony’s…

  15. Ben R

    ruruland: Howard’s clearly a great player, but in many respects he’d be as underutilized and mis-managed as Melo is now, given MDA’s unwillingess to bend the offense.

    Something that needs to be considered.

    You don’t trade for Howard for his offense you trade for his dominating defense and rebounding and then the offense, which is very good, is just a bonus. Even if D’Antoni didn’t utilize Howard well, which i doubt, he is still such a clear upgrade on Melo it is almost silly.

    Howard can be the dive man on the pnr, he can finish dump offs on trips to the rim, he can score on putbacks. He has never been a dominant back to the basket player anyway so why would it matter if his post ups went down as long as he got those shots back in other ways.

    D’Antoni has adjusted his offense, making Lee the facilitator when Duhon crapped out, adjusting his pnr when Amare went down in Pheonix. D’Antoni is not completely rigid he just won’t put up with iso basketball from his wing especially since it didn’t work when he tried it earlier this season.

  16. Owen

    Milwaukee Bucks remaining schedule? Looks pretty favorable….

    @Golden State Warriors
    @Portland Trail Blazers
    Boston Celtics
    @Charlotte Bobcats
    Indiana Pacers
    @New York Knicks
    Atlanta Hawks
    @Cleveland Cavaliers
    Memphis Grizzlies
    @Washington Wizards
    Cleveland Cavaliers
    Charlotte Bobcats
    Portland Trail Blazers
    Oklahoma City Thunder
    New York Knicks
    @Detroit Pistons
    Indiana Pacers
    @Washington Wizards
    @Indiana Pacers
    New Jersey Nets
    Toronto Raptors
    Philadelphia 76ers
    @Boston Celtics

  17. ruruland

    Ben R: You don’t trade for Howard for his offense you trade for his dominating defense and rebounding and then the offense, which is very good, is just a bonus. Even if D’Antoni didn’t utilize Howard well, which i doubt, he is still such a clear upgrade on Melo it is almost silly. Howard can be the dive man on the pnr, he can finish dump offs on trips to the rim, he can score on putbacks. He has never been a dominant back to the basket player anyway so why would it matter if his post ups went down as long as he got those shots back in other ways.D’Antoni has adjusted his offense, making Lee the facilitator when Duhon crapped out, adjusting his pnr when Amare went down in Pheonix. D’Antoni is not completely rigid he just won’t put up with iso basketball from his wing especially since it didn’t work when he tried it earlier this season.

    I’m not denying Howard’s superiority.

    Perhaps part of the reason the Iso wasn’t working is because of the guard’s inability to shoot the basketball or drive.

    I understand not passing up a chance to get Howard, but if you’re not maximizing his value by any measure if you’re just asking him to do the things Chandler does– you’r basically saying he’s going to be a slight upgrade to Chandler on both ends.

    Howard is the most dominant back to the basket player in the NBA it’s not even close. C’mon guys. I’m not saying you wouldn’t make that deal every time, I’m saying that’s the point you move in a new coaching direction.

  18. anubav

    ruruland: Howard’s clearly a great player, but in many respects he’d be as underutilized and mis-managed as Melo is now, given MDA’s unwillingess to bend the offense.

    Something that needs to be considered.

    Why should that be the case? It’s true that D’Antoni wouldn’t feed Dwight the ball in the post, but who wants Dwight posting up any way? But he would be absolutely ridiculous running the high pick and roll. Other than that, he can clean up on the offensive boards and dominate on the defensive end. Do exactly what Chandler does, only add Dwight’s size and athleticism (and I think he’s got slightly better hands than Tyson). He’d get 25 a game easy, and that’s with a mediocre point guard running the show. I mean, look at Chandler’s numbers during Linsanity. The problem with Melo (or maybe with D’Antoni’s system) is that he messes us the spacing on the pick and roll. For better or worse, D’Antoni’s system requires him to play like a Gallo, a stretch big who pulls his man outside and opens up the lane.

  19. Frank

    I posted this in the last thread but it also belongs here:

    I truthfully think DH12 works in any system. For whatever reason, he only has 80 possessions used as the PNR roll man, but in those 80 he is averaging 1.44 PPP – #1 in the league. I think SVG puts him in the post a lot because Orlando has so many shooters that would benefit from double teams, but 1.44 PPP is really devastating. Seriously, who could challenge him on a lob? McGee maybe? Deandre Jordan?

    Also what is this about Jerry Sloan maybe wanting this job? Really? I can’t imagine that. in general I think MDA has gotten a very raw deal since taking this God forsaken job, but if Sloan wants to come here, I’d send MDA packing today. Sloan has done more with less roster talent than pretty much any coach I can think of. Stockton and Malone were obviously great, but can you really remember a single other very good player on those Jazz teams? Jeff Hornacek? Kirilenko? Mark Eaton?

  20. The Raging Platypus

    Frank:
    I posted this in the last thread but it also belongs here:

    I truthfully think DH12 works in any system. For whatever reason, he only has 80 possessions used as the PNR roll man, but in those 80 he is averaging 1.44 PPP – #1 in the league. I think SVG puts him in the post a lot because Orlando has so many shooters that would benefit from double teams, but 1.44 PPP is really devastating. Seriously, who could challenge him on a lob? McGee maybe? Deandre Jordan?

    Also what is this about Jerry Sloan maybe wanting this job?Really? I can’t imagine that.in general I think MDA has gotten a very raw deal since taking this God forsaken job, but if Sloan wants to come here, I’d send MDA packing today.Sloan has done more with less roster talent than pretty much any coach I can think of.Stockton and Malone were obviously great, but can you really remember a single other very good player on those Jazz teams? Jeff Hornacek? Kirilenko? Mark Eaton?

    The thing is, could you imagine Sloan being able to deal with the NY media machine? Look at sort of vitriol being spewed out by our favorite tabloid hacks right over a losing streak.

  21. Matt Smith

    Bear with me here – what’s our lineup like IF this trade goes through? Without giving it much thought I instinctively say Lin/Shumpert/Fields/Amare/Dwight. Fields makes more sense to me at the 3. He can’t shoot, but he’s a decent slasher and I think it’s his natural position. He’d play better defense than Turk.

    I just can’t convince myself it’s amazingly better than Lin/Fields/Melo/Amare/Chandler, even though Dwight is my favorite non-Knick. I guess anything that gets Melo off the team (I didn’t even want him coming here in free agency let alone in a deal that ravaged our team) helps us.

  22. ruruland

    Frank: I posted this in the last thread but it also belongs here:I truthfully think DH12 works in any system. For whatever reason, he only has 80 possessions used as the PNR roll man, but in those 80 he is averaging 1.44 PPP – #1 in the league. I think SVG puts him in the post a lot because Orlando has so many shooters that would benefit from double teams, but 1.44 PPP is really devastating. Seriously, who could challenge him on a lob? McGee maybe? Deandre Jordan?Also what is this about Jerry Sloan maybe wanting this job? Really? I can’t imagine that. in general I think MDA has gotten a very raw deal since taking this God forsaken job, but if Sloan wants to come here, I’d send MDA packing today. Sloan has done more with less roster talent than pretty much any coach I can think of. Stockton and Malone were obviously great, but can you really remember a single other very good player on those Jazz teams? Jeff Hornacek? Kirilenko? Mark Eaton?

    I’d suggest spending some time getting familiar with the flex offense.

    Howard is a decent pnr guy, i don’t have Snyergy, but he’s the most dominant post man in basketball and creates easy shots for everyone he’s ever played with.

    MDA isn’t going to run his offense through Dwight, you need a coach that will.

  23. dogrufus

    ephus:
    Orlando says no.Now if the Knicks would also take back Duhon, I think Orlando would do it.

    So let me get this straight… we let Denver put the whole 9 inches in our collective asses to get Melo, but wouldn’t even let Orlando insert a pinky finger to get us Dwight Howard?

  24. iserp

    I would say no to that trade … i wouldn’t expect to be better than Orlando currently is, and Hedo’s contract is hideous. We are trading two starters for only one, and we don’t have the flexibility to add more pieces; even the MLE next year is going to Lin, and who knows where Davis will land.

    Meanwhile Orlando gets a much more balanced team… perhaps not a real contender, but still a really good one. They still have quite a lot of vets (Jameer Nelson, Jason Richardson, JJ Reddick) with contracts they ain’t moving, so why not ride with them for the next three years while they expire, and then rebuild? Melo and TC would be their best option.

  25. max fisher-cohen

    Yes, Sloan’s offense would play to this team’s strengths (outside of Melo) just like D’Antoni’s, but Sloan is much more of an enforcer. His teams have been much stronger historically. He just seems personality-wise like he would never want to deal with all the drama that comes with coaching in New York.

  26. Ben R

    If we get Sloan the irony is we have to move Melo as well. So really even if we replace D’Antoni we have to move Melo.

    The only scenario I see in which keeping Melo is the best choice is copying the Iverson Sixers. Move Amare for parts, anything. Start:
    Shumpert
    Jeffries
    Melo
    Jorts
    Chandler

    Then slow the pace way way down, let Melo iso everytime down the court and become a top defense. I don’t want that team but that is really the best way to maximize a iso based medium efficiency high usage wing.

  27. Frank

    iserp:
    I would say no to that trade … i wouldn’t expect to be better than Orlando currently is, and Hedo’s contract is hideous. We are trading two starters for only one, and we don’t have the flexibility to add more pieces; even the MLE next year is going to Lin, and who knows where Davis will land.

    Meanwhile Orlando gets a much more balanced team… perhaps not a real contender, but still a really good one. They still have quite a lot of vets (Jameer Nelson, Jason Richardson, JJ Reddick) with contracts they ain’t moving, so why not ride with them for the next three years while they expire, and then rebuild? Melo and TC would be their best option.

    I think you underestimate how good Dwight Howard is. I love Tyson, but he isn’t even 75% the player that Howard is (although I think he is 200% the leader that Howard is). And Turk would start at the 3 for us – for all his warts, he’s a very good passer, pretty decent shooter. Turk’s contract is/would be immaterial – we are capped out with or without this trade.

  28. ephus

    If the Knicks were to get Howard, I think that MDA would quickly follow Melo out of town. Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan and (dare I say it) Patrick Ewing would all make sense to coach the D12-led Knicks.

  29. New Guy

    ruruland: I’m not denying Howard’s superiority [to Carmelo].

    At least we know there is a limit! :)

    But seriously, I agree with your points.

  30. Owen

    “Then slow the pace way way down, let Melo iso everytime down the court and become a top defense. I don’t want that team but that is really the best way to maximize a iso based medium efficiency high usage wing.”

    Right. He gets all the glory and we get a 50 win team, max. That’s the problem with high usage low efficiency guys. There is really only one way to wring value from their ability to “create shots.” But it’s impossible to build a championship contender that way.

  31. max fisher-cohen

    BTW, Add Dwight Howard to the Bobcats, and they’d win half their games. Howard, Paul and James are in a class of their own like that. Most of Howard’s effect on a team is on the boards and defense, so even if he’s not utilized properly on offense (and I think MDA would be much more flexible with a true star like Howard than he has been with Melo), it would propel the Knicks into a top 4 team in the east with the potential to be on par with Miami/Chicago.

  32. Frank

    btw someone on a previous thread brought up the question about Carmelo’s ability to finish through contact – so I looked into at hoopdata – he is only averaging 0.42 and-1 plays per game this year, which is LESS THAN HALF what he has averaged in the last 2 years (0.86, 0.92) even though his FT/FGA is basically unchanged at 0.4. I have no idea why this might be. Out of shape? Hurt? Not getting calls? Don’t know. I can’t imagine he is losing his athleticism at age 26-27.

  33. JLam

    Yes. Melo’s a liability and we need a good rebounder and defense in Howard. Im not too fond of letting go of Chandler and getting Hedo.

    Dolan likely not going make this trade as he’s just investing half the team for Melo last year and I feel he’s still intent in seeing a payoff.

    MDA the fall guy and his contract not going to be renewed. MDA got nothing to lose, he should make so bold coaching decsions and sit starters that dont produce and give more playing time to those who put the effort.

    Surprise me Dolan, do the trade, you can always get Melo back once the team becomes desent again. You got Isiah Thomas back didnt you?

  34. ephus

    dogrufus: So let me get this straight…we let Denver put the whole 9 inches in our collective asses to get Melo, but wouldn’t even let Orlando insert a pinky finger to get us Dwight Howard?

    If I understand what you are saying, you miss my point. I think the Knicks would do Melo and Chandler for Howard and Turk in a heartbeat, so long as Howard committed to stay. I don’t think that Orlando would do that deal, because they would still be capped out with no flexibility. In that world, Orlando would rather take the Lopez, Brooks and picks offer from New Jersey. But, if the Knicks also agreed to take back Duhon, then I think Orlando gets enough cap flexibility to do the deal. I think the Knicks should do the deal, even if they have to take Duhon as well.

  35. max fisher-cohen

    Owen:
    “Then slow the pace way way down, let Melo iso everytime down the court and become a top defense. I don’t want that team but that is really the best way to maximize a iso based medium efficiency high usage wing.”

    Right. He gets all the glory and we get a 50 win team, max. That’s the problem with high usage low efficiency guys. There is really only one way to wring value from their ability to “create shots.” But it’s impossible to build a championship contender that way.

    You can do it. Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups were the highest usage guys on the 2004 champion Pistons, and they had TS% of 52.2% and 55% respectively. Rasheed Wallace’s TS% that year was 49.5%. The Knicks would have to trade Fields, Lin and Stoudemire for all-NBA defensive players in order to accomplish it though…

  36. iserp

    Frank: I think you underestimate how good Dwight Howard is. I love Tyson, but he isn’t even 75% the player that Howard is (although I think he is 200% the leader that Howard is). And Turk would start at the 3 for us – for all his warts, he’s a very good passer, pretty decent shooter. Turk’s contract is/would be immaterial – we are capped out with or without this trade.

    Yeah, i know that Howard is really good. But Turk having the ball all the time in his hands will feel like Melo having the ball all the time in his hands, but worse. Stoudemire won’t work with Turkoglu, and if you give Lin the ball, Turk is useless; not to mention that i feel that age will catch with him quickly. Perhaps Dwights D allows us to play Novak more time, but Novak isn’t better than Ryan Anderson. All in all, i don’t like it.

  37. dogrufus

    Frank O.:
    from realGM:
    Sources close to the Knicks say the team needs to make a coaching change to replace Mike D’Antoni.

    Stephen A. Smith said on ESPN that he would be surprised if D’Antoni isn’t replaced within the next few days.

    Phil Jackson has been frequently mentioned as a successor, but Jerry Sloan could also be a candidate.

    Sources say Sloan would be interested in coaching the Knicks. Several teams pursued Sloan this past summer.

    Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219725/Sloan_Would_Be_Interested_In_New_York_Job#ixzz1p6z894WK

    I doubt either of them would come on as interim coach. And firing MDA for some random interim guy or Woodson pretty much writes off the season.

    I’d also like to point out that never has Phil Jackson coached a team without two top 5 NBA players, and given that the best we can offer is two fake top 15 players, he’s not fucking coming.

    So let MDA have the season and bring on Sloan. Not like it’s salvageable anyway, so who cares?

    Come to think of it, I’m in favor of firing MDA for Herb Williams and seeing if we can tank hard enough to trigger our lotto pick protection.

  38. New Guy

    Stop it!

    Please, someone tell me who is offering Orlando a better package than Melo straight up for Howard without the Hedo/Chandler malarkey. You mean to tell me that if we say, “sorry, all we’re offering is Melo,” they’re going to turn around and say, “well, we’d rather have Boozer and Asik, or an injured Brook Lopez and some picks.”

    Come on. Stop it. I know Howard>>>>>>>Melo, but Melo would be a fantastic return considering the circumstances.

    Now, if you’re willing to take Amar’e and Chandler……

    (Melo and Howard. Hmmm….)

  39. dogrufus

    max fisher-cohen: You can do it. Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups were the highest usage guys on the 2004 champion Pistons, and they had TS% of 52.2% and 55% respectively. Rasheed Wallace’s TS% that year was 49.5%. The Knicks would have to trade Fields, Lin and Stoudemire for all-NBA defensive players in order to accomplish it though…

    League wide TS% during that era was the lowest it’s ever been. 5 players that year were above .595 TS, last year 17 were. Billups was an elite efficiency scorer that year.

  40. dogrufus

    Frank:
    btw someone on a previous thread brought up the question about Carmelo’s ability to finish through contact – so I looked into at hoopdata – he is only averaging 0.42 and-1 plays per game this year, which is LESS THAN HALF what he has averaged in the last 2 years (0.86, 0.92) even though his FT/FGA is basically unchanged at 0.4. I have no idea why this might be.Out of shape? Hurt? Not getting calls? Don’t know. I can’t imagine he is losing his athleticism at age 26-27.

    Variance is big with rare events, and the fact that his FG% is low means less shots going in generally.

  41. Dan Panorama

    I can’t believe it. I guess this also kills whatever pittance of credibility the Dwight Howard rumors had as well, since no way they fire D’antoni then immediately trade Melo.

  42. dogrufus

    Is JVG as interim coach on a 80 million dollar deal too much to hope for?

    Please?

    Just please not the Woodson era…

    Fucccckkkkkkkkk

  43. KJG

    max fisher-cohen:
    it’s not a resignation. Every knicks coach “resigns”. He was fired.

    i understand what you’re saying… i thought this situation was different… i thought we were dealing with a stubbornness beyond a simple resignation.

  44. dogrufus

    KJG: wow… didnt expect resignation.

    It’s probably more of a “resignation,” if you catch my drift.

    Or maybe D’Antoni was hoping to get canned, realized they were gonna keep him on to look like a fool as we miss the playoffs, and made a pre-emptive strike?

  45. Frank

    Well, now we’ll get to see if MDA was the problem or not.

    Does his whole staff go with him? Would be sort of weird if his brother stuck around.

    This’ll be Woodson and Herb coaching the team. Awesome.

  46. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    while i tottaly agree with you that you need a defensive team to play iso ball i think making any trades other than D!2 is not a good idea. IMO i think if we split the teams up and changed tempos up the Knicks could do marvelous things.

    Think about this:

    ISO ball team: Baron Davis, Iman Shumpert, Carmelo Anthony, Steve Novak ( to space the ball and give melo an outlet), and Tyson Chandler.

    MDA ball team: Jeremy Lin, Landry Fields, Steve Novak, Amare Stoudemire, Jared Jeffries ( because he plays better with STAT on offense and is better suited to back up Novak and STAT’s mistakes

  47. Ben R

    D’Antoni is gone that really sucks. My only hope is that this follows Utahs model: star pushes out head coach is traded later that week anyway.

    Well at least now we’ll get to see it wasn’t D’Antoni’s fault. Very much like when we had Marbury and the coach “couldn’t figure out how to win”. Bring on Larry Brown part 2.

  48. KJG

    dogrufus: It’s probably more of a “resignation,” if you catch my drift.

    Or maybe D’Antoni was hoping to get canned, realized they were gonna keep him on to look like a fool as we miss the playoffs, and made a pre-emptive strike?

    its all symantecs but i expected an explicit firing if anything…

  49. Frank

    We have been long-suffering Knicks fans. We deserve better than this.

    Give us any one of these 4. Please. And then sell the freaking team.

    JVG
    SVG
    Phil
    Sloan

  50. Frank

    btw you know what’s going to happen tonight–

    Melo shoots 22 of 26 from the field, scores 50 points with 17 rebounds and 11 assists and NYK win by 20, says that MDA “stole his joy” and that he feels more free now.

  51. Z

    Owen:
    I don’t love Ellis but he is certainly an upgrade on two guys who weren’t playing at all…

    Subtraction by Addition?

  52. dogrufus

    Dan Panorama:
    I can’t believe it. I guess this also kills whatever pittance of credibility the Dwight Howard rumors had as well, since no way they fire D’antoni then immediately trade Melo.

    What a surprise, rumors of outcomes that don’t suck turn out to be false, while rumors of shitty things happening turn out to be gospel truth.

    The New York Knicks, ladies and gentlemen

  53. KJG

    Frank:
    We have been long-suffering Knicks fans. We deserve better than this.

    Give us any one of these 4. Please. And then sell the freaking team.

    JVG
    SVG
    Phil
    Sloan

    not totally on topic but I recall clyde saying on the telecast one night… maybe 4 or 5 years ago… that jerry sloan was the toughest defender he ever faced… it was a strange way to describe his defense… something about hands all over, slithering snakes… something like that… not making this up… i could be wrong…

  54. Z

    Dan Panorama:
    I can’t believe it. I guess this also kills whatever pittance of credibility the Dwight Howard rumors had as well, since no way they fire D’antoni then immediately trade Melo.

    Utah fired Sloan then immediately traded Williams!

  55. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    max fisher-cohen:
    D’Antoni resigns according to Woj. https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/179994201033936896

    Sad… Gets harder to root for the Knicks every day.

    This has to be the saddest day in sports history. when a player (who i might add is a crybaby and not living up to his potential) gets a good coach fired who loves the organization and the players. smh anybody who actually thinks this is a good thing needs to really see what this really is. this a crybaby boll hogging supertalent not superstar getting his way, above a really good coach. if you think things are bad now just remember that this team will be coached by melo not anybody on that bench anymore smh. sad very sad hanging my head in disgust

  56. PC

    Was D’Antoni supposed to challenge Kyle Korver for loose balls, Melo? You suck. I would rather have Fab Melo.

  57. Caleb

    This is so depressing.

    I have a hard time imagining either Sloan or Jax ever agreeing to work for Jim Dolan.

    but money’s money, Chuck Daly agreed to coach Derrick Coleman.

    We’ll see.

  58. thenamestsam

    My guess is that the reason for the “resignation” and the “mutual decision” is that they basically came to him and offered him some additional severance or something in exchange for some kind of gag order. If you fire a guy he can easily start giving interviews or writing books or whatever. And I’m just speculating, but I have a feeling he’d have some less than pleasant things to say about Mr. Carmelo and Mr. Dolan. I bet we never see Dantoni say much about this.

  59. Z

    max fisher-cohen:
    it’s not a resignation. Every knicks coach “resigns”. He was fired.

    Lenny Wilkens “resigned”. Totally on his own. No one wrote that prepared statement for him. He read it so fluently and with such conviction that it could only have come straight from his own heart.

  60. hoolahoop

    Dantoni had no control of this team and they were underachieving game after game. He had to go.
    And Melo’s still a piece of shit.

  61. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Frank:
    btw you know what’s going to happen tonight–

    Melo shoots 22 of 26 from the field, scores 50 points with 17 rebounds and 11 assists and NYK win by 20, says that MDA “stole his joy” and that he feels more free now.

    that just tells me that he didn’t want to play MDA ball and that he needed to be in the spotlight all the time ( as he showed in Chicago when they passed up on melo and melo still converted his free throws

  62. Ben R

    Marbury story all over again:

    Marbury/Melo comes to NY to save the franchise. Plays well in half a season, NY makes playoffs gets swept by Boston after Amare/Thomas gets hurt. Next season starts with huge fanfare Knicks struggle out of the gate the headcoach gets fired at midseason. Now we will play even worse to finish the season miss the playoffs have no pick and hire a big name coach who will fail next year and be screwed for the next 3 years.

    Over/under on when Melo eats vaseline 2.5 years.

  63. KJG

    Frank:
    Well, now we’ll get to see if MDA was the problem or not.

    Does his whole staff go with him? Would be sort of weird if his brother stuck around.

    This’ll be Woodson and Herb coaching the team. Awesome.

    very curious to see how that shakes out…

  64. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Ben R:
    D’Antoni is gone that really sucks. My only hope is that this follows Utahs model: star pushes out head coach is traded later that week anyway.

    Well at least now we’ll get to see it wasn’t D’Antoni’s fault. Very much like when we had Marbury and the coach “couldn’t figure out how to win”. Bring on Larry Brown part 2.

    the sad part is even though coach Woodson IMO is a good coach he really is a scape goat. what this organization wants is a great headline coach in the realm of Phil Jackson Jerry Sloan Hubie Brown, which i would take in a heart beat but that will never happen with a player who has more control of the team than the previously vacated coach. sad to say but we just downgraded into a rabbit hole!!!!!!!!!!

  65. dogrufus

    Frank:
    btw you know what’s going to happen tonight–

    Melo shoots 22 of 26 from the field, scores 50 points with 17 rebounds and 11 assists and NYK win by 20, says that MDA “stole his joy” and that he feels more free now.

    More likely Melo shoots 11 of 26 from the field, scores 30 points with 7 rebounds and 1 assist and NYK win by 2 against a tired, reeling Blazers team at home, and the media views this as vindication of letting superstar Carmelo Anthony play his way.

  66. KJG

    LMNYKFAN4LIFE: the sad part is even though coach Woodson IMO is a good coach he really is a scape goat. what this organization wants is a great headline coach in the realm of Phil Jackson Jerry Sloan Hubie Brown, which i would take in a heart beat but that will never happen with a player who has more control of the team than the previously vacated coach. sad to say but we just downgraded into a rabbit hole!!!!!!!!!!

    i really want them to follow through on the utah jazz model… and in an ironic twist of fate, hire jerry sloan… the day he resigned i wanted him… but i dont want him and melo… melo and the gang will chew em up…

  67. dogrufus

    Z: Utah fired Sloan then immediately traded Williams!

    Utah has ownership and FO that acts strategically and intelligently. Don’t assume we’re capable of things just because they do them

  68. Caleb

    Don’t this is going to make Melo more popular w/Amare, Chandler, Lin… and he slagged J.R. this week… going to be lonely unless they start winning, fast.

  69. Owen

    Wow, big news.

    For the record, I agree that the Pistons sort of made the model work. But I would argue it’s a little deceptive, since they didn’t have all their chips on one scorer. Also, even at the time, it was pretty clear Wallace was a monster on the defensive end.

    He posted an 84 defensive rating that playoff run, pretty amazing…

  70. ephus

    ESPN is reporting that Howard has agreed not to opt out after this season. So there is no way that DH is going to be traded in the next 36 hours.

    This is our roster, and Woodson is our coach.

    I should have been a farmer.

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