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Tuesday, October 16, 2018

2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Spurs

Sorry, I thought that this was going to be an 8pm game for TNT.

Anyhow, the Knicks are actually holding tight with the Spurs through the first, down 14-9.

This would be a remarkable win if they could it off.

Let’s go, Knicks!

71 comments on “2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Spurs

  1. thenoblefacehumper

    At MSG. Porzingis in full Chuckzingis mode, but is getting after it on the boards.

  2. geo

    not watching yet…i was going to mention some interesting aspects from the box score – no knick free throws yet?!? …but, didn’t want to jinx anything…

  3. geo

    so less kanter, jack and kp in the second half and more o’ quinn, frank, and bease – and, we should have this one…

    or, we’ll lose by double digits again to these guys…

  4. ClashFan

    Poor Noah. Came in for 2 minutes, but the Knicks were -7 while he was in there.

    LOL at Lance with the corner three bank shot.

  5. thenoblefacehumper

    Jack really has been useless. Might be running out of gas in general. I’m not some huge Trey Burke believer but I don’t see the downside seeing what he can do, especially with THJ out.

  6. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    Porzingis is literally clueless about shot selection. He’s more green than Frank.

  7. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    Courtney Lee would be a good addition to the Cavs and we could probably get the Cavs 1st round pick, but it’s tough to find a salary match. I don’t want Shumpert even if it knocks a year off our contract obligations. I’d want some more value back.

  8. Brian Cronin Post author

    Courtney Lee would be a good addition to the Cavs and we could probably get the Cavs 1st round pick, but it’s tough to find a salary match. I don’t want Shumpert even if it knocks a year off our contract obligations. I’d want some more value back.

    Easy. Channing Frye. In such a deal, I’d try to get a second rounder from Cleveland, too.

  9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Frye alone isn’t enough for matching salaries. What does work in the trade machine is Frye + Osman for Lee. I wonder if CLE would make that deal if we asked for a first as well. Likely not, but I could see a second being dealt our way.

    I’d do Osman, Frye, and a second for Lee in a heartbeat

  10. BigBlueAL

    Refs have made this game unwatchable with all the whistles this quarter. Plus the Knicks offense is hurting my eyes too.

  11. Brian Cronin Post author

    Frye alone isn’t enough for matching salaries.

    Oops, sorry, I had bad salary info for Frye!

  12. BigBlueAL

    Knicks struggling on offense so Hornacek goes to a Jack-Sessions backcourt. Time to switch the channel.

  13. djphan

    beasley’s the only one in this game who wants to take it to the hole on a regular basis…. pretty lazy game from everyone involved…

  14. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    Does playing Jack and Sessions together constitute tanking?

    Having both of them on your team constitutes tanking.

  15. Bruno Almeida

    Why the fuck is Sessions playing the entire 4th quarter??????

    Seriously, I try not to hate Hornacek, but it’s impossible.

  16. Bruno Almeida

    Every time you get the chance to play Jarrett Jack for 32 minutes in the first night of a home-road back to back, in an obvious loss, you have to do it.

  17. JK47

    “Well, this one seems out of reach. Maybe it’s time to see what we have in this Ramon Sessions kid.”

  18. ClashFan

    What was tough for me to watch was Beasley and Jack seemingly taking the lion’s share of the shots in the fourth quarter. I guess they were b/c KP was sucking so bad…

  19. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    The probability that Porzingis is not going to be a franchise player is growing. If that’s the unfortunate reality, it may also be time for me to adjust my thinking about the correct strategy going forward.

    We’ve all seen the 2-way brilliance he can bring to the table at times, but we’ve also seen him fade 2 years in a row now. Worse is that he’s literally clueless. He has no idea what he’s doing on offense at all. Maybe he’ll put it all together, but I’m not so sure Phil didn’t have the right idea to sell high if he could have gotten the right offer.

  20. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    5-19 is unacceptable. Stop fucking shooting if you can’t make the shots.

    I may say this 10 times before the night is over. He literally has no idea what he’s doing on offense and especially as the #1 option. There are 19 and 20 years old kids that have a better understanding of shot selection and how to score efficiently than he does. It’s a waste of a 7’3″ athletic unicorn. If Gallinari had his body, athleticism, and talent he’d be scoring 25 a night with a TS% of 65% and we’d be battling for the #4 seed.

  21. BigBlueAL

    If you think Phil was right about wanting to trade KP after his 2nd season then you need to rip the hell out of Phil for wasting the 4th pick on the draft on a bust like KP. Can’t have it both ways.

  22. djphan

    he’s having a tough time adjusting to hard double teams… right now he’s trying to shoot quickly.. which works when you make them and ugly when it’s not… his shot in that range is just not good enough right now….

    he’s fine…. all his comments point to the fact that he knows why he is struggling… he just needs to pass quicker or learn another way to get reliable baskets…. lma took him to school on that which is to get deep post position and work in the paint and get to the line…

    also the fact that we can’t seem to get him in easier scoring positions hurts him a good deal….

  23. Bruno Almeida

    KP’s ts% was already down to a very-Melo .548 before this game.

    Even if he eventually develops into a star, the Knicks should never be trying to compete for meaningless wins when we have no idea if he ever will. Playing Jack + Sessions for 40 minutes combined should already be a fireable offense.

    Hornacek will coach for his job, and he doesn’t give two fucks about development or anything else. When Timmy comes back he’ll do what he does best (help us win meaningless games) while Dotson gets 2 minutes and Frank sits for Jack and Sessions. All the while, Hornacek still has zero clues about how to give KP better shots and leads a team that shoots the least threes in the NBA.

    I’m very done with this situation.

  24. JK47

    Who was the last good player that this franchise drafted, then developed into a good NBA player? Patrick Ewing?

  25. d-mar

    There was one play tonight where the ball was being batted around underneath, and somehow KP couldn’t grab the ball even though he was 6″ taller than everyone else on the court.

    That kind of shit bothers me.

  26. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    If you think Phil was right about wanting to trade KP after his 2nd season then you need to rip the hell out of Phil for wasting the 4th pick on the draft on a bust like KP. Can’t have it both ways.

    I couldn’t disagree more.

    He’s DEFINITELY NOT a bust.

    He can score in a variety of ways. He’s a good rim protector and overall a plus defender. That’s still an all star caliber player and good #2 option. I’m happy to have him. But he was and perhaps still is considered a franchise centerpiece. The probability of that assessment being too optimistic is growing. It was clearly correct to draft him given the other available talent, but if you could have gotten franchise value for him in a trade at the end of the year, that may have been the right move. It’s not over yet, but the probabilities are slowly shifting in a negative direction.

  27. er

    Damn I missed the game but this board is crazy. Month ago people were crowing about how well KP shoots without Melo and lol’d at the “gravity effect” now KP=Melo. Wow what a sea change. Also why did Kanter only play 17 mins against such a big team?

  28. er

    There was one play tonight where the ball was being batted around underneath, and somehow KP couldn’t grab the ball even though he was 6? taller than everyone else on the court.

    That kind of shit bothers me.

    That’s my biggest beef too. The fact that he rebounds like he’s 6’6 and never passes is troubling. Lucky he at least block shots or he would be pretty avg right now

  29. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    There was one play tonight where the ball was being batted around underneath, and somehow KP couldn’t grab the ball even though he was 6? taller than everyone else on the court.

    That kind of shit bothers me.

    He’s seriously weak. It’s probably going to take a couple of more years in the weight room.

  30. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Don’t look now, but the Lakers have the 2nd worst record in the NBA. If they don’t improve, Boston is going to select DeAndre Ayton or Marvin Bagley, and that is going to ruin basketball for the next decade. Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, and DeAndre Ayton will be a dynasty.

  31. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    My only point on KP is this. If you think you have your franchise player imo the correct strategy going forward is to start building around him and getting playoff experience to develop him and the other young players. If the probability (not certainty) that KP is a franchise player is falling (and I think it is), then we have to figure out how to get one.

  32. BigBlueAL

    I don’t consider KP a bust at all and am thrilled the Knicks drafted him. But already making a final evaluation on a 22yo foreign player midway thru his 3rd season is ridiculous. People here want to tank and rebuild but are already souring on our 22yo top 5 pick in his 3rd season who has shown flashes of superstar ability.

    JK the last player the Knicks drafted and turned into a good player was David Lee but that was entirely on D’Antoni, guarantee you if he was still Knicks coach KP would be much better than he is right now.

  33. Brian Cronin Post author

    If we’re excluding KP for whatever reason, Gallinari is the last player the Knicks drafted who turned into a good player.

  34. cgreene

    Continuously running plays for KP in the post all game long and not getting him in motion at all is on the coaching staff regardless of KP’s own shot selection.

    Also does anyone notice that the Knicks rarely set real picks or our guards don’t wait for the pick when running PnR plays?

  35. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    @52

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t made a final evaluation in any of my comments. I am speaking in terms of probabilities. As new information comes in, my assessment of the probability that he’s going to become a franchise player is slowly changing. Maybe it was 50% at one time and now it 25% for example.

    This year he’s doing exactly what he did the previous 2 years. He played brilliantly for a month or so and then slowly declined. Also troublesome to me is that he seems to have no idea what he’s doing on offense. He has enough talent to score in a variety of ways. So when the shot is dropping jaws will drop with it. But when you are constantly taking foolish shots, the net of all of that talent is not going to generate a lot of value. I see no evidence he has learned anything. Again, I see 19 and 20 year old kids fresh out of college that seem to have a better grasp of when to shoot and when to pass. None of this is encouraging me that he going to become a superstar and all I need to do is be patient.

  36. JK47

    I’m talking about a player that the Knicks developed, and who played well for the Knicks for a number of years. Gallinari was here for 2 1/2 years. David Lee was a pretty good player and he was here for five years. Ditto Mark Jackson. And Mark Jackson’s original run with the Knicks was 25 years ago.

    When it comes to drafting and developing guys who really stick around and contribute to the team for a long time, the Knicks’ record is fucking pathetic.

  37. Brian Cronin Post author

    I’m talking about a player that the Knicks developed, and who played well for the Knicks for a number of years. Gallinari was here for 2 1/2 years. David Lee was a pretty good player and he was here for five years. Ditto Mark Jackson. And Mark Jackson’s original run with the Knicks was 25 years ago.

    When it comes to drafting and developing guys who really stick around and contribute to the team for a long time, the Knicks’ record is fucking pathetic.

    Well, remember, Charlie Ward is the last player drafted by the Knicks to be signed past his rookie contract (THJ doesn’t count, for obvious reasons).

  38. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

    I wish Charlie Rosen was still writing articles about the Knicks. That would be an interesting read. lol

  39. TheOakmanCometh

    This just in: Charlie Rosen says the Knicks would be 34-2 if they were running some kind of 3-pointed offensive scheme.

  40. djphan

    i really cannot believe how quickly ppl turn on the best player the knicks have drafted since ewing…. and it seems like the ewing years all over again…

    the guy is going through some lumps… and even despite that he’s still a lot better than he was last year..

    the criticisms are valid…. hell i was on the hatewagon before we even drafted him… but he’s proven that he can expand his game at least a little bit…. that is indisputable… and since he has .. he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he can get through these lumps without all these knee jerky lashouts….

    that is the microcosm of knicks fandom… it’s the reason why ppl think knicks fans can’t sit through losing seasons without a loud contingent throwing a hissyfit….

    there’s a ton to not like about the team…. kp is seriously not one of them…

  41. RomeLives

    The only reason KP is regressing is because of coach Hornacek and the rest of the coaching staff. Most of our wins, if not all have come from one of our players having a hot hand.

    He’s not a good coach, the teams offence sucks, defense sucks, the rotations are terrible, the players don’t even seem prepared half the time. He has not helped KP develop at all (or any of our players) I mean they didn’t even speak during the offseason. How can you allow that as the head coach and leader of the team when he is your star player ? KP is the same player as he was when he came in, the only difference now is that he has a little more confidence.

    Fortunately I did not get to watch the game but with all the recent talk from the coach himself about Frank and how he is developing as a player I find it interesting that he only got 16 minutes this game.

    Mannnnn if KP and Frank were on the Spurs, KP would already be a star and frank would be a defensive monster in a couple years. Imagine them and Leonard together. Man I wish I was Spurs fan lol.

  42. ess-dog

    I’m surprised emotions are running so high right now. I’m pretty sure the Spurs are a great team, yes? And we played fairly good defense against them down the stretch.

    I think we all know that KP needs a lot more time in the weight room to be able to round out his game, but he actually rebounded pretty well tonight (tied with Beasley for high rebounder of the whole game, both teams!)

    But yes, it helps KP to have his bankrupt-man’s Kobe – Timmy – out there. It takes the pressure off him having to do too much one-on-one. The problem is, Timmy will never be THAT good, so yeah, we need another draft miracle and eventually, maybe we can woo a star to NY via free agency (if we can get up to like the 4th seed).

    Let’s keep it mellow in 2018, people. It’s all gonna be ok.

  43. Bruno Almeida

    @63

    That is becoming my issue too. I’m getting convinced beyond reasonable doubt that Hornacek just sucks at his job.

    I’m not done with KP and want him gone or anything. It’s just that the whole premise of competing now was based on the idea that he is going to be a superstar and the Knicks have enough talent already to follow the idea of making smart signings and drafting lower than top 5-10. Games like this where KP completely suck will put into question whether that’s probable or not.

    Nobody wants him to get traded for nothing, people are just pointing out that the improvements have been few and the whole situation is disappointing.

    Why play Jack, Sessions, Lance so many minutes in an obvious losing effort when they clearly suck and have no place in a good team? Why is Kanter playing 17 minutes while Pau Gasol is grabbing offensive rebounds left and right? Why do you take Ntilikina off the game after one bad turnover to play Jack 32 minutes?

    These are all legit questions that should be asked if the Knicks idea is, as the front office has stated many times, to develop while trying to win?

  44. hoolahoop

    KP sucked tonight. His shot selection was awful. Terrible performance all the way around.
    My pet peeve is that he takes plays off in lazy way. A couple of times he didn’t make an effort to get back after a turnover, and he’s lazy running out to the perimeter to guard his man – even when he has the ball!
    He’s repeatedly said that Melo taught him a lot.

    On the other hand, he’s a 7’3” 22 year old with enormous talent and a good work ethic. If he played for Boston and was a third option, he’s probably look fantastic. If he was on San Antonio, a team that moves the ball and is forbidden to take bad shots, he’d look great. If he was on Houston and CP was getting the ball to him for good looks, we’d all want him on the knicks.

    The knicks need an elite PG, someone deadly from behind the arc.

  45. Brian Cronin Post author

    I think KP now is well ahead of where KP ended up the first two seasons, but the problem is that it is still buoyed by his exceptional start. For instance, I bet KP’s numbers at this point in the season last year where a good deal better than his final numbers. In the first two seasons, he started off strong and then faded late. It might be the same this year. Hopefully not!

  46. Brian Cronin Post author

    The Hawks are the worst team in the NBA. What’s interesting about that is that the Hawks have rarely been in the position to actually get a high draft pick, and when they have, they often botched them horrifically (Marvin Williams #2 overall ahead of Chris Paul, trading the #3 pick, Pau Gasol, for Shareef Abdur-Rahim and the hilariously infamous 1975 NBA Draft, where the Hawks ended up with the #1 pick and the #3 pick in the draft, picked future Hall of Famer David Thompson with the #1 pick and picked longtime NBA player Marvin Webster with the third pick and saw both players sign with the ABA instead). So it is going to be really weird to see the Hawks with a stud like Marvin Bagley. Dominique is really the last time they had a star rookie, right? And even there, it was only due to the Utah Jazz’s incompetence (they didn’t have the money to sign Dominique, the #3 overall pick, and he didn’t want to play for them anyways, so they traded him to Atlanta).

  47. mase

    So Brian …
    Draft comes is here and Atlanta is in the clock … do u offer them kp for the pick and who should it be doncic or bagley?

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