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Friday, May 25, 2018

2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bucks

If any team could believe that they were playoff contenders by winning a game against a low-level playoff team at home while still being 7 games under .500, it would be this one.

So look for a Knick win tonight.

Let’s go? Knicks?

113 comments on “2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bucks

  1. ptmilo

    Mike Breen is a great announcer but I would rather have a random fan as our GM than him. Or Dave Berri.

  2. ClashFan

    Hopefully this will be like the ankle earlier (not as bad as it looks), but that fact that it is a knee is very scary.

  3. 2FOR18, understands math

    Well I guess KP was holding back Timmy from playing like Jordan. Wtf has gotten into him.

  4. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    It’s tough being us.

  5. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Shut KP down for the season, trade everyone, and play Burke, Ntilikina, Dotson, and Willy Hernangomez. I really hope it’s not a tear.

  6. GoNyGoNyGo

    I’m going away on vacation. I couldn’t have picked a better time. Maybe I’ll get lucky and come back to find that Wily starts now with KP on the mend. He stays and the Knicks trade KO and CLee for a #1 and trash. The Knicks don’t win a game for the rest of the season and get at top-4 lottery pick with their own #1. I can dream, can’t I?

  7. ClashFan

    Yeah, you can walk after a tear. I know a couple of guys who continued playing USTA tennis after a tear. One guy just wore a brace, but had stability issues.

  8. ess-dog

    Wow, Horny FINALLY puts in another rim protector (Kyle) after KP goes down and they get stops. Rocket science!

  9. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

    looks like those sanctions went from Wells Fargo to Equifax

    truly, we cannot have nice things

  10. ClashFan

    Cleveland only scored 9 points in the 4th quarter tonight in their loss in Orlando. Derrick Rose was 0-7 in 14 minutes. And Toronto clocked Boston.

  11. djphan

    there’s a really large gap between us and the other teams ahead of us in the tankathon….. we’re probably stuck in our position… and i don’t think it’s that bad… i would really only want a top pick for doncic… the other guys just aren’t worth it imo…..

  12. thenoblefacehumper

    There were multiple people on this website saying we should be buyers literally yesterday hahahahahahahaha

  13. the don nelson era

    the good news: on Tankathon, I only had to sim the lottery 23 times for the Knicks to win the #1 pick

  14. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    If we’re sellers at the deadline and KP is out for a while this team can get really bad, really quick. Without KP or, say, KOQ, I could see us winning single digit numbers of games in the remainder of the season (27 games left.)

    Edit: just did the math and if we won 9 games for the rest of the season (33% win percentage over the remainder of the season) we’d only be in 9th if other teams kept playing to their current percentages……………………………….

    We’re gonna be shit forever huh

  15. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    We’re a half game out of 9th and 4 games out of the top 8 picks (that are 1.5 games apart from each other). The tank rolls on mightily.

  16. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

    Can we agree on an abbreviation for “first rounder” and “second rounder” for the remainder of the season? It’s especially challenging on the phone, and we all know that the daily discussion will revolve around the draft.

    1RP or 2RP? C1RP for conditional, F1RP for future first?

  17. djphan

    if we’re like #10 … that’s really fine… i wouldn’t get too caught up in trying to be like 6-9 or anything…. this draft is filled with a lot of flawed players …. there’s really one ace… and that’s doncic…. and arguably young also….

    ayton, bagley, bamba, jackson and carter are more big men we probably don’t need…. and that’s really the bulk of the top 10 at the moment…. moving up higher might net you a chance at michael porter and he was talented but … i’m not exactly giddy about that….

    we’re probably stuck …. but that’s really not the worst thing in the world….

  18. latke

    @Silky Johnson,

    The Knicks are only 8-19 in their last 27. I don’t know why you’d expect them to win MORE games in their next 27 assuming KP and maybe one other rotation player are out. We also have quite a tough remaining schedule… 20 of our final 27 games are against teams that are .500+.

    If KP is out and the Knicks trade Lee, my guess is the team finishes with about 27 wins. If they keep Lee, I’d guess more like 29 wins. Waive Beasley and trade Lee and O’Quinn, and we could maybe get down to 25 or 26 wins (top 5 pick territory).

  19. geo

    well, that pre-season guess of a 27 win total for the season is starting to look a lot better…

    hope kp and timmy get healthy soon…

    at some point you would think we would hit bottom and things would start improving…

  20. latke

    I actually wouldn’t mind trading for any of the Magic’s young players. That team has been such a shitshow that i feel like several of them probably have some potential to unlock… Problem is Payton is a free agent this summer, right? So there’s actually no point in trading for him.

  21. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    @53

    Well, I was just going with the fact that our current win percentage is about 42%, so I imagine a ~30% win percentage as a realistic outcome over the final run if KP is injured. It could easily be worse, I guess, but it seemed like a conservative estimate, given that no trades have been made yet. Especially if Trey Burke is getting more time at the expense of Frank or Jack.

    Edit: Didn’t realize how tough our SOS was! There’s a realistic chance to tank hard, barring other tanktastic moves by bad teams (Memphis will be really bad after trading Tyreke.)

  22. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Elfrid Payton is not very good and I want no part of him if it involves taking a penny’s worth of that Biyombo atrocity onto our cap sheet

  23. ess-dog

    I didn’t realize that Biyombo was still 25. Not a bad trade if they shake off Noah and don’t add a pick.

  24. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Elfrid Payton is actually a great buy-low candidate. He’s posting good efficiency numbers, I really like his per 36 numbers, he’s 24 in 3 weeks, and I think we’ll get a great deal on his next contract because of his reputation. It depends on what Orlando wants of course, but if we can steal him I’d do it.

  25. kevin5318

    7th pick is still gettable which would put us in range for one of the top guys. Bagley and Bamba are mocked there on Tankathon and draft net.

  26. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Payton is a bad defender (which is weird given how touted he was for his defense coming out of college) and if it involves giving up any asset then it’s a totally idiotic trade. He’s an RFA who’s going to have to be overpaid as a bet on future production, which is pretty much the worst way to build a team.

    Hard pass. Let’s live and die by Frank at the point, unless we luck out and draft Trae Young.

  27. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    if we dont trade someone over the age of 24 at this deadline i will riot

  28. ClashFan

    Sadly, not a surprise based on what it looked like. Sucks.

    Well, sell off the vets and do the youth tank. At least now they have an easily used excuse.

    I seriously don’t think I can stomach Beasley starting at the 4 the rest of the year and getting all his hollow buckets.

  29. djphan

    elfrid payton would absolutely be a great get…. if he gets any kind of functional jumper… he will be a star…. and he’s still amazingly just 23….. that biyombo contract is kind of bad though…

    i don’t see a good trade working though…. unless they’re looking at kanter for payton + biyombo? i can talk myself into that…..

  30. The Infamous Cdiggy

    NOOOOOOOOO!!!

    Well, I think it’s safe to pull the plug on the season (if it wasn’t already). This could be a blessing in disguise in more ways than one… not sure exactly how, but it could be.

  31. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    The ACL tear in 2018 isn’t an injury you can’t come back from, and hopefully the rehabilation process gives KP some much needed strength in his legs. I feared this would happen to KP because he has terrible form when it comes to landing from dunks. I’m sick of pro athletes not knowing how to land. Somebody somewhere is not doing their job.

  32. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    @70

    The trade Berman reported would be, (if it included Biyombo and Noah) Payton + Biyombo for Noah +x + picks (2nds or a protected 1st)

    I don’t see it with Payton. He’s a bad defender who’s riding a high in TS off of 38% 3 point shooting when he’s historically a sub 30% 3 point shooter. He has a great 2 point % but is shooting in the 60 %s from the line which is pretty bad. How long does it take to develop a jumper? Because his is totally broken.

  33. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    It’s a good thing we have all our picks because we aren’t going to win many more games this year and by the time he comes back next year (assuming he’s out 10-12 months and they even bring him back) we will be well on our way to the lottery again.

    This is a 2 year tank from here.

  34. Jack Bauer

    KP, torn ACL Noooooooo
    Just terrible, I feel bad for Kristaps, he has a long road to recovery ahead.

    This team, unbelievable….. The only good news is this gets them off the fence of deciding between going all in for the playoffs or all in for the tank.

  35. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    @73 Come on bro. He’s in his 4th year in the league and he’s 23. It’s not a groundbreaking development for a guy to become a better three point shooter before his 25th birthday. He has a positive BPM, WP48 likes him, and I’m almost certain he would be posting a better WS/48 this if he didn’t play for the Orlando Magic. On top of all of that, he’s likely to provide surplus value on his next contract unless the Knicks sign him to another Tim Hardaway Jr deal. He’s not a Knick yet but I’d embrace adding him to Dotson, Hernangomez, Ntilikina, Burke, Hardaway Jr, our draft picks this year, and KP.

  36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    @74

    Lucky for us the lottery rules are changing AND it looks like 2019 is going to be an historically weak draft class! What a terrible time to be a Knick fan.

    @78

    Signing RFAs is almost never a value proposition and with Steve Mills still existing I have no expectation of good contract negotiation at all. This is the Knicks we’re talking about. Ron Baker has an NTC. We’re gonna pay for the privilege of giving Elfrid Payton primo money when after four years in the league he’s shown minimal improvement outside of two point percentage (admittedly nice but the bad free throw percentage rings so many alarm bells) and literally the most volatile stat in the box score (3 point percentage)? Sounds Knicksy to me

  37. djphan

    yea noah + picks is horrible……

    payton’s 3p shooting is probably flukey…. but the guy is amazing around the basket and basically a clone of rondo… and if you asked me to take a flyer on 24 yo rondo without the mischief and see if he develops an outside shot then i would take that bet…. because as is… he’s not a bad player….

    but not for a 1st rder…..

  38. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    @81

    If we were a competent organization who knew how to negotiate contracts I’d be relatively alright with a Payton trade and signing assuming no assets were given up. But this is the Knicks we’re talking about, so we’d probably give him 16m a trade kicker and a player option

  39. latke

    The trade Berman reported would be, (if it included Biyombo and Noah) Payton + Biyombo for Noah +x + picks (2nds or a protected 1st)

    God, that’s an awful trade. Payton should have pretty slim trade value as an impending free agent. So what we’re actually doing is bribing the Magic with picks to take on Noah’s contract… I don’t understand how the team could even consider a move like that… Like, it’s the ultimate of win now moves and the type of move even a team on the fringe of contending should be wary of making.

  40. BigBlueAL

    I’ve said this a thousand times before but it can’t be any more appropriate time to repeat this, THANK GOD I’m a die-hard Yankees fan too.

  41. geo

    man, feel bad for the kid…

    some of his dunk landings have looked ugly for quite a while…

    I don’t wanna watch beasley for 30 plus minutes a night…hopefully they can bring someone up from the g-league – or, try moving o’quinn to the 4…

    i’m gonna tune out real quick if I have to watch a lot of jack, lance or beasley…

    courtney is about to go from 34 minutes a game to 38 or so…at least we’re squeezing value out of his contract…

  42. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    If they add pick to get rid of Noah (lottery protected or not) I can’t even say on a public forum what I am thinking. There is a level of foolishness that is so far beyond what should be part of a rational discussion, that if you are even considering it you should be barred for life from that area of business. And that’s the kind way of saying what should happen to you.

    Just buy the dude out and get rid of him.

    WTF is the matter with these guys considering picks.

    How the fvck did these assholes get into Princeton or wherever the hell they went.

  43. latke

    Man, didn’t realize how bad ACL tears are. Some guys make a full recovery, but it’s changed the trajectory of or ended a lot of careers… I thought Achilles was the only one that had that kind of effect.

  44. djphan

    the thing that complicates the injury is that kp is really really tall….. there isn’t a large sample of big men who have had acl tears either…..

    compounding things is that he might also take advice from his brother on the rehab instead of the knicks staff….. hopefully it goes smooth but i hope they listen to the team on this….

  45. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Yeah hard N-O on trading a [lottery protected] first round pick ever. Biyombo isn’t opting out of that contract so it’s the same shit, except Biyombo won’t deteriorate

  46. Brian Cronin Post author

    Biyombo isn’t even a bad player, really, he’s just a terrible fit in the modern NBA where you can survive with a guy like Biyombo, but not more than one and the Knicks already have four players like him on the team.

    I actually like Payton, but not for a pick.

  47. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Payton and Biyombo for Noah, pick swaps this year, and OG Jaramaz’s draft rights is the most I’d do.

    EDIT: Looking at Biyombo’s stats, he’s essentially the same guy he’s always been. Orlando is just terrible and brings his value down. Payton and Biyombo might actually be…good NBA basketball players in the right situation. Maybe that’s New York. It worked for Kyle O’Quinn, right?

  48. Brian Cronin Post author

    Payton and Biyombo for Noah, pick swaps this year, and OG Jaramaz’s draft rights is the most I’d do.

    But a pick swap wouldn’t be anything in this instance, no? Since the Magic have a worse record than the Knicks, so why would they be interested in swapping picks? Insurance in case the Knicks win the lottery?

  49. thenoblefacehumper

    I know it seems hasty to go here right now but we’re going to have approximately 27 more Porzingis games, assuming he makes a normal full year recovery, to decide if we want to give him a max contract.

    That is really shitty.

  50. Brian Cronin Post author

    It could be worse. They will at least be able to see if he has recovered. Imagine if they had to decide during this offseason!

  51. Brian Cronin Post author

    Plus, they could theoretically play a game of chicken with him next offseason and say, “Go ahead, take a RFA offer. We’ll match it, but let’s see if you can even get a MAX RFA offer.” Maybe they can actually get him signed under-MAX.

  52. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    Seriously, if they give away anything to move Noah I’m done. After 50 years as a fan I will never go to another game and not watch any games unless they are playing whoever my NEW team is. I just can’t root for morons anymore.

  53. Brian Cronin Post author

    The only real benefit to getting Noah off the books quicker is potential free agent signings in 2019/2020 with that space. But getting that space back a little quicker is less meaningful now that KP is down for the rest of this year and probably most of 2018/2019. We aren’t going to be a playoff team and no one important is going to come to NY until after KP all the way back in 2019/2020 and only if he and the Knicks look good that year. So just keep Noah, buy him out, or if someone is crazy enough to trade him for a shorter deal, that’s great. But giving anything away to get rid of him sooner is brain dead. Seriously, if they give away anything away to move Noah I’m done. After 50 years as a fan I will never go to another game and not watch any games unless they are playing whoever my NEW team is. I just can’t root for morons anymore.

    Biyombo has a 2019-20 player option, so they wouldn’t even be gaining any time. So, yeah, I agree that the Magic would never take Noah back without a pick added. And fuuuuuuuuuck that.

  54. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I was suggesting a pick swap to be cheeky in all honesty. There’s no way you give up a 1st round pick for those two players, even if they fit the “under 25″ bill pretty nicely. I will say that I’m very interested in a Payton/Burke point guard depth chart with Frank Ntilikina and Dame Dotson as the shooting guard depth. The dream scenario is to draft the next Steve Nash in Trae Young obviously (who’s going 7th in ESPN’s latest draft so let’s keep hope alive), but I do like Payton and think he’s the plus rebounding type we need to put around KP. Of course the big issue with him is he can’t shoot threes, and that’s pretty big. I do think his next contract, especially since Orlando wants nothing to do with him, will present surplus value on him through his athletic prime. If you can sign Elfrid Payton to the Brook Lopez contract I think you do that all day.

  55. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    @98

    lol

    I deleted most of the post you quoted as you were responding to it, but that’s fine. I’m super upset about some developments in my own life tonight and it’s coming through in my posts on the Knicks (which I am also upset about).

    I hope that article is all hot air and they aren’t really considering a deal that contains a pick.

  56. Stratomatic says "I don't care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal"

    As long as we are talking about problems, if Hardaway doesn’t snap out of his funk we have a 6th man making big dollars and another untradeable contract.

  57. latke

    Giving the Magic a picks swap this year would have a bit of value since it would essentially give them insurance if the Knicks managed to win the lotto.

  58. the don nelson era

    You guys seriously think they’re negotiating just swap rights for this year with a team that’s worse than them? Come on

  59. Brian Cronin Post author

    You guys seriously think they’re negotiating just swap rights for this year with a team that’s worse than them? Come on

    No, as The Glass Half Rebuilt noted, he was just joking around. latke was only noting that a pick swap wouldn’t be absolutely worthless, just next to worthless.

  60. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    Winning the lottery is a faint hope, but at least it’s hope, which is a rare thing for Knick fans. I’d rather keep the chance to win the lottery, rather than trade it away.

  61. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I wouldn’t be surprised if after tonight with no KP and probably no TH2 for an extend period we are the worst team in the league. Our roster sans KP and TH2? Burke, Jack, Ntilikina, Lee, Dotson, McDermott, Lance Thomas, Kanter, Hernangomez, Beasley, O’Quinn, and Noah. That sounds like the worst team in the NBA to me.

  62. GoNyGoNyGo

    The Knicks have 23 wins. The worst team in the NBA has 17. We are not far from that coveted top lottery zone.

  63. Farfa

    I’m sorry if I sound too cynical (and really, my best wishes go to KP), but his injury is a cheat code for our management.

    1) There’s no more question about tank/no tank
    2) He’s gonna miss a full year before any sort of contract extension, which could erase my fears about overpaying him
    3) We can give a lot of minutes to young players and see if they sink or swim

  64. Brian Cronin Post author

    This is not a blessing in disguise. This is horrible news. KP might never really recover from this injury.

    However, if he does fully recover from this injury, then yes, this is one of the best things that could have happened to the Knicks. The issue is that we don’t know how he will recover, so it still terrible news for now.

    I am officially dreaming of somehow adding Marvin Bagley or Trae Young or Michael Porter to this team in this year’s draft (I don’t think the Knicks will get high enough to make Ayton or Doncic realistic dreams). The top guys in this draft have elite talent and I’m very excited to imagine the Knicks possibly getting one of them (while very upset that KP might have had a career-…if not ending, then certainly career-reducing injury).

  65. Farfa

    Yes yes, don’t get me wrong, this is horrible news. But there’s a silver lining in giving a clear path to our befuddled management.

  66. Brian Cronin Post author

    Oh, absolutely. Just noting that this might work out terribly for the Knicks if KP’s career is de-railed by this injury. It might still work out for the best, of course, but it might also be terrible. Let’s hope that it all works out! :)

  67. alsep73

    Let’s hope that it all works out! :)

    Look where that’s gotten us this century, Brian. :)

    I’m with you. If it was, say, a bad fracture that would sideline him for the rest of the season but give him much of the offseason to rehab and get healthy, I’d be Mr. Silver Lining. There are definitely some benefits to this, as it should force clarity on both the FO and Jeff about what to do for the rest of this season, and maybe even in the offseason (though it sounds like Perry was already aiming for 2019 free agency, given the cap situation), but the risk that KP’s career could be altered by this one makes it hard to care much that Frank and Burke are likely to play more, and that the team might be more open to dealing Lee.

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