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Wednesday, November 14, 2018

2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Sixers

The Knicks head to the Sixers where we get to see if the French Connection backcourt will get to be awesome again!

Plus, after an off night, Kornet-sanity might get a chance to get back on track tonight!

Let’s go, young Knicks!

64 comments on “2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Sixers

  1. KJG

    At the game … sixers have 2 or 3 invisible players on defense so…. with this effort an execution, This could have been an 0-82 team.

  2. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

    Boy, the Knicks are in extreme tank mode. I just hope someone told Hardaway because now that we are trying to lose he’s liable to get hot from 3 for the next month.

  3. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    I don’t even know what I mean by this, but Mudiay looks like a real NBA player.

  4. freethrow

    Was the masterplan for the knicks to overpay hardaway so he could get a hotstreak and ruin the teams draft placement for a second time?

  5. Z-man

    Frank has two of those ‘really guys I’m not a point guard’ turnovers so far

    you trollin’ me pt?

  6. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    Was the masterplan for the knicks to overpay hardaway so he could get a hotstreak and ruin the teams draft placement for a second time?

    The part that pisses me off is not just the stupidity of it now that we are officially unofficially tanking. It’s that if he has a great game and we win he’ll celebrate as if something good happened. He has no idea at what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, what the team is doing, or anything else. He just runs around throwing up bad shots and some nights a lot of them go in. That usually happens in garbage time or when we are trying to lose.

    I shouldn’t be so harsh, but I just sense that’s he about to get hot and win a few games for us when we don’t need or want it.

  7. wetbandit

    I’m happy if Hardaway plays well. The problem is with Lee, Jack, Lance, Oquinn giving us the edge.

  8. d-mar

    Hard to criticize Hardaway if he celebrates a win (and they’re not winning this game btw). I mean, he’s playing in a competitive professional basketball game, all the players on the court want to win.

  9. Roshi

    Sure would be nice if Frank showed any signs of actually getting better. What do the Knicks player development coaches do during practice?

  10. Owen

    Thank god for TJ McConell

    Does Mudiay have an nba handle? Trying hard to muster some excitement here but seems like the same horrible player.

  11. djphan

    i dunno what the coaches are doing if they keep letting hardaway shoot these 3s….

    and i love how after one game mudiay deserved more minutes than frank…. i don’t really complain about rotations but that’s pretty inexplicable….

  12. Roshi

    Pretty clear that without Porzingis, we can’t stop anyone, can’t muster any decent offense, and will be hopefully winning mercifully few games the rest of the way

  13. Roshi

    We need to manufacture a phantom Kanter injury to ensure our descent in the standing…he’s a little too good to be crew on the SS Tanker

  14. Roshi

    Talk me off a ledge…how long do we give Frank before we write him off? Hasn’t looked like an NBA player for more than 1 out of every 4 games or so.

  15. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

    Does Mudiay have an nba handle? Trying hard to muster some excitement here but seems like the same horrible player.

    Stop looking at the stats and look at the upside!

  16. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    @37

    If he’s still horrible next year I’ll be scared. If he’s not averageish by his third year I’ll give up on him. The jury is still out at least until halfway through year two.

  17. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

    Here’s the list of guards who posted better than a 2.5 BPM in their rookie season:

    Jordan (goddamn he was good)
    Paul (likewise I’m sure)
    Magic (yup)
    Penny (aka “Fredo”)
    Stevie Franchise
    Dennis Johnson (too long ago, doesn’t count)
    Walter Davis (whatever)
    Kyrie (yeah)
    Ben Simmons (of course)
    Rudy Fernandez (it was all downhill from there)
    Mark Jackson (hopping on his bad ankle)
    Manu Ginobili (who was 25)

    Ages:
    19 (1)
    20 (2)
    21 (2)
    22 (4)
    23 (2)
    25 (1)

    Jury’s out on Frank, whether he looks like an NBA player or not. He’s under contract. Might as well let him develop and see what you’ve got.

  18. djphan

    he has until next year to get his 2p fg% up… or he will have to do what no other nba guard has done… which is have a career as more than a 12th man without being able to make a layup….

  19. Roshi

    Definitely should give him a ton of minutes, because not like we have any viable alternatives…I’m thinking unless he majorly upgrades his handle and first step in the off-season, Knicks should start looking at him as a two-guard. Haven’t seen much vision from him lately….most passes he makes are just quik dump-offs to wing player. Seems to have potential to be reliable spot up shooter though

  20. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    Hardaway 4 – 16 and 0 -8.

    How is possible he can shoot that poorly for this long?

  21. djphan

    the offensive requirements of a sg is much higher than at pg unless they plan on just parking him in the corner to shoot open 3s…. that is also a complete waste of a draft pick… you can pick up dleaguers to do exactly that…

    they need to exhaust all resources to make frank the best pg he can be…. they can give up in year 3 if they want but to give up now is not giving him a fair shake….

  22. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    Pretty clear that without Porzingis, we can’t stop anyone, can’t muster any decent offense, and will be hopefully winning mercifully few games the rest of the way

    Yeah, but his WS/48 is only .114 and BPM is -.01 so he can’t actually be good, can he? lol

  23. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    After Chicago wins tonight, the Knicks will be within 2 games of the 8th place Chicago Bulls in the race to the bottom. We can do this, fellas. Roll Tank!

  24. vincoug

    Definitely should give him a ton of minutes, because not like we have any viable alternatives…I’m thinking unless he majorly upgrades his handle and first step in the off-season, Knicks should start looking at him as a two-guard. Haven’t seen much vision from him lately….most passes he makes are just quik dump-offs to wing player. Seems to have potential to be reliable spot up shooter though

    I’ve been thinking for awhile that he’s going to be a 2 and not a 1. I can’t remember any PG who started out with as bad a handle as Ntilikina’s and was able to develop it. If he develops, I’m thinking he can be a late-career Kidd which I’d be perfectly happy with getting at 8th overall.

  25. dtrickey

    Watching Frank this year it definitely doesn’t seem like his shot mechanics are broken. It all really seems like a confidence/game time reps problem. Just needs to get more accustomed to getting his shots off under NBA pressure. He certainly seems to have the tools to get to the basket as well, he just needs the coaches to get in his ear to be more aggressive.

  26. wetbandit

    PGs need time to develop. Stop judging him, ignore him, give him time.

    I have a feeling he’s going to be a Conley type, who is one of my favorite players.

  27. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    We don’t have to think about players as PG’s or SG’s anymore.

    We need a certain amount of penetration, play making, scoring, spacing, and defense out of the backcourt. It doesn’t matter which player has which skill.

    I’ll be fine with Mudiay doing most of the ball handling and scoring as long as Frank is a better play maker than the average off guard, knocks down 3s at 40% clip, can at least score a little off the dribble, and is a lock down defender that can guard either position.

    Frank is at 34% now at 3s. That’s fine for a 19 year old. I think he has already demonstrated he has good vision and passing skills. He’s just a bit careless at times because he’s young. 15 points, 4-5 rebounds, 4-5 assists and a 40% clip on 3s is doable and would be fine.

    Mudiay may never be the scorer we need to go along with a player like Frank, but he has talent. He has to continue to improve his shot, finish better, and defend better.

    It’s not going to happen over night if it does happen.

  28. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    Hardaway is working with Fultz’ shooting coach.

    Both of them need a sports psychiatrist to go along with a new shooting coach.

  29. DamnThisTeam

    Hardaway 4 – 16 and 0 -8.

    How is possible he can shoot that poorly for this long

    It’s not April yet.

  30. djphan

    nobody lasts in the nba without being able to make a layup…. you don’t just magically put up numbers but ignore the paint entirely…. prigioni is the only player to do that… and he wasn’t anything more than a 15 mpg backup pg…

    everything is correlated….. and it starts with him attacking the paint…. if he doesn’t do that then nothing else matters… he’ll be out of the league when his first contract expires….

  31. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    you don’t just magically put up numbers but ignore the paint entirely…

    Be patient. He’s 19 years old, looks more like 17-18, and does not have to be a PG.

    There are plenty of players that make a living as spot up shooters that don’t have near the court vision and passing skills he has already demonstrated, let alone the potential to become a lock down defender at 2 guard positions and an ability to switch on SFs.

    We all know he has to get better at several things, but that doesn’t magically happen either. He’s 5-6 years away from his peak.

    This is what rebuilds via draft are like. You draft a guy and he sucks. You draft another guys and he sucks too. Then you draft another and he sucks worse than the others. Then suddenly a few years later one them starts playing a lot better, then another, then another… and then 5-6 years later you have the beginnings of a good team. We are 2 only years into this because we were missing two 1st round picks. There are a lot more nightmare nights ahead for us this year and next year and some very frustrating ones the year after that even if KP comes back better than ever.

  32. kevin5318

    His shooting form is fine and he’s already shown signs of elite defense. At the least he’ll be a 3&D guy with some play making chops.

    I’m willing to bet against anyone here who thinks he won’t be at least league average from 3pt range in his career.

  33. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    And he did have the best plus minus on the team, despite not looking like he was doing much.

  34. Roshi

    He needs to be given the green light by Horny to be way more aggressive with his shot and taking it to the rim…I don’t care if he misses, gets blocked, or stripped. He just seems to be so tentative and often pulls back even when he has some daylight.

    Can’t blame his indecision, though…coach pulls him pretty quickly, while veterans have an infinite leash

  35. djphan

    you get time as long as you prove that you belong… just ask beasley…. he was a bust.. but he at least produced like a mediocre player and ppl kept giving him contracts because he’s at least proven to be a useful bench guy….

    when you are like frank and mudiay…. they’re both still dleague level…. and you just don’t get a lot of time in the nba to prove that you’re not when you’re that bad… and justifiably so…. if you’re ever going to be starter material you’re probably not going to have multiple dleague level years on your resume….

    that’s why it’s important to pick good players and not ‘project’ so much when drafting.. while your guy who has a lot of measurables is trying to learn how to dribble a basketball other players are working on much more advanced things…. assuming quantum leaps in improvement might give you nice fantasies for a couple of months but in reality you get a collection of bad players….

  36. nicos

    I’m not sure telling Frank to be more aggressive right now is going to be all that helpful. He just doesn’t have the chops to be a successful penetrating guard at the moment and as tentative as he is already I think you’re probably setting him up for failure. Let him work on his handle and pull up game over the summer and then try to get him playing downhill. Bench Jack, give Mudiay 20-25 minutes a night, Burke another 15 and have Frank play the balance plus another 10-15 at the two.

  37. Brian Cronin Post author

    We are 2 only years into this because we were missing two 1st round picks.

    Because Phil Jackson didn’t want first round picks when he could have gotten them.

  38. slovene knick

    Brian, no need for anti Phil/Strat crusade. It’s understood and well baked on our cortex .
    The picks part of his tenure was OK. All other aspects are like a manual on how not to run a team.
    Except of course: how to get paid “taking a nap for three years and getting paid for five years nap” part. That’s what one should learn to master.

  39. 2FOR18, understands math

    @62, sorry, every time Strat brings up the missing first rounders, either I or BC have to bring up the melo sign and trade to Chicago for picks that didn’t happen, and not trading Chandler and Shump for 1st rounders. We’ll be having this argument for the next 20 years :)

  40. Stratomatic "It's tough being us"

    Because Phil Jackson didn’t want first round picks when he could have gotten them.

    It’s just not that simple.

    Loads of Knicks fans say they want to tank and rebuild via draft, but every time a young player like Frank or KP has a bad game they declare him a bust and make it obvious they can’t stomach a single season of development via draft, let alone 6-8 years of it. That’s how long it takes. Maybe longer if you make a few bad selections (you will). The data actually suggests it doesn’t work (other than getting lucky).

    The one time it seems to have worked well (with the 76ers), he alienated players, agents, opposing teams, opposing GMs, they changed the rules, fired him, and people that worked with him (like Atkinson from the Nets) are telling everyone to never do it like that again. To accomplish his goal, he behaved like an insensitive douche bag (on top of the extra losses for the company).

    They don’t have a line in the spreadsheets for intangible things like profits and dealing with human beings in fantasy league sports. That’s the difference.

    No one cares if player X is in a contract year and wants playing time because his career is on the line.

    No one cares if player Y has earned the minutes through effort and dedication and merit. If he’s not in the long term plan, bench him.

    No one cares if player A, B, and C are very immature and need some emotional and life guidance on top of basketball knowledge they can gain from veterans.

    No one cares that the brightest coaches and GMs think player Z is very good, the fans have their own model from the internet (lmao) that says he sucks. So trade him.

    No one cares if ticket & merchandise sales are down because the starting backcourt is 20, the 22 star is out, & we are tanking for the 8th seed instead of the 9th seed that gives us some microscopic advantage.

    It’s all way more complex than just rebuild through the draft and…

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