Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, November 14, 2018

2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

The Knicks go for their first two-game road winning streak if the season as they head to Los Angeles to play the Lakers this afternoon.

The Lakers are playing without Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram is a game-time decision. That shapes up well for the Knicks.

In other news, the Lakers signed Knicks’ G-League player, Nigel Hayes, who has had a strong season so far, to a 10-day contract. I forgot that the Knicks signed Isaiah Hicks to their two-way contract and not Hayes. Oh well, Hicks has been playing even better than Hayes, so there’s no big loss there.

Anyhow, with all of the Laker injuries, the Knicks really really should win this game. And, really, since they are predestined to make a move for the #9 seed, they are destined to win this game.

Let’s go? Knicks!

70 comments on “2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

  1. ClashFan

    Wow, Orlando beat Boston today.

    Just got in from running. 64 degrees. A couple of days ago, it was in the 20’s. Crazy winter.

  2. ess-dog

    Not watching, but I’m assuming that Kanter is the main sieve on D? Their frontcourt seems like it’s going to town.

  3. thenoblefacehumper

    The only good anti-tank argument is that no one should have to be subjected to Lance Thomas playing NBA basketball

  4. ClashFan

    Jack seems to have some sort of psychic power to make defenders slack off of him so that he can shoot his elbow jumper.

  5. Max

    Obscene defense,
    down 4 shooting 59%, not a good sign.

    Lakers 14 points off turnovers and 8 OR…

    Lopez 4-6 on 3s, Clarkson 14 Randle 12… Aren’t they on the trade block? :-)

    Thomas and Baker combined: 14 minutes 0-0

  6. ClashFan

    OMG. The Lakers halftime show. A couple of wannabe Chippendale guys doing a sort of dance/acrobat/comedy routine…

  7. Grocer

    Moving the ball fairly well in the first half, but so many fails on the boards, and KP with the dumb fouls. smh

    Willy at the 4 is an, interesting solution.

  8. BigBlueAL

    One thing that is obvious to see is how unathletic and slow the Knicks are compared to the rest of the league. Memphis was playing a bunch of guys nobody has heard of but they were all so much quicker and athletic compared to the Knicks.

  9. Max

    @15 Right on target.

    Lakers end the quarter in a 10-0 run,
    atrocious play with a rag tag lineup with horrible spacing.

  10. thenoblefacehumper

    Impressive loss, I may have underestimated our tanking potential. Still hard to see us dipping below 10 which kind of makes this whole season one long waste of time.

  11. Max

    We’re getting destroyed by the Lakers minus Ball, KCP and Kuzma.

    This players have no shame.

    I’m watching on Lakers’ feed,
    the announcers just said “the Knicks have given up”.

  12. Grocer

    This might be the worst quarter of basketball we’ve played all year. It might be the worst quarter anyone’s played all year.

  13. Max

    As usual our STAR disappeared in the 4th.

    Alas, I was right in my preview (see previous thread),
    but I’m not happy about it…

    Fucking bunch of spineless losers…

  14. geo

    One thing that is obvious to see is how unathletic and slow the Knicks are compared to the rest of the league. Memphis was playing a bunch of guys nobody has heard of but they were all so much quicker and athletic compared to the Knicks.

    we are most definitely not a young, athletic team…not “quick” at all…

    I don’t know, i think we have some younger guys on the roster, but, we’re not so athletically gifted…

    except beasley, watching him this year has been a revelation, he’s one the more unique players in the league…just doing his own thing, at his own speed…

    checked in on the local fox broadcast, gave up around halftime…decided to see if I could at least get to watch new england lose…

    yeah, been one of them days…

  15. thenoblefacehumper

    It’s pretty demoralizing that the Lakers might have a better future than us after essentially fucking up everything that could possibly be fucked up for five years.

    This team better not give a single minute to anyone over the age of 25 after the deadline.

  16. Brian Cronin Post author

    The thing is that they’re not going to tank, so these losses are so depressing. You know, at the end of the year, when the other teams really start tanking and the Knicks keep trying to win, they’ll win enough to stay around #10 in the league, and so we can’t even say, “At least these losses give them better odds at a draft pick.” This is just a dumb organization who tries to win and then plays terribly and loses embarrassing games to shitty teams playing without a bunch of their main players. So gross.

  17. wetbandit

    We’re only 3.5 losses behind Phoenix at 6, and 4 behind Memphis at 5.

    We can still bag a top pick if we keep losing for the next couple of weeks, and focus on youth/draft.

    We can also deny KP a max contract and slow his role a bit as he learns that he needs to change a few things before he takes the next step. I’m glad he didn’t make the All-Star team, dude doesn’t deserve it (yet).

    I also think Burke will be playing lots of minutes for us soon.

  18. wetbandit

    Brian-
    I know Perry explicitly said he doesn’t believe in tanking (I think all execs have to say that), but we don’t know what he really will do, he’s new.

  19. ess-dog

    When I checked out the score in the third, the Knicks were up by 3. Did anyone play decently down the stretch?

  20. Brian Cronin Post author

    I know Perry explicitly said he doesn’t believe in tanking (I think all execs have to say that), but we don’t know what he really will do, he’s new.

    Perry was talking about that stuff when he wasn’t even under contract to any team, so I think that he just legitimately believes it.

  21. kevin5318

    The games up to the trade deadline will be key to the tank. Bucks twice, Hawks, Celtics, Nets, Suns, Nuggets and GSW.

    2-6 would be ideal.

  22. thenoblefacehumper

    Every team from the Bulls on down doesn’t seem to have any problem rightfully acknowledging that wins should not be a priority this season (the Lakers and Nets can’t tank but are so devoid of talent I can’t see the Knicks falling below them unless they really tear things down, which they won’t). That’s why I think Charlotte and Utah are the only teams we might fall below.

    We can only hope that now that it looks like it’ll take .500 or better to make the playoffs, Perry realizes the futility of this whole thing. I get that this roster isn’t the easiest to work with but some decisions should be clear as day. Trade Lee and KOQ. Glue Jack and LT to the bench if they can’t be traded for anything (they can’t). Kanter is admittedly tricky but you need to open up more minutes for Willy regardless. If they do all of these things I can let the dominoes fall where they may, but I doubt any of it happens. Stupid ass team.

  23. Max

    @34 No. Matador defense, stupid turnovers, bad shots, no ball movement, no rim protection. Worst game of the season since game 3 in Boston.

  24. 2FOR18, understands math

    The sad thing is if we do tank by committing to the kids we might actually play better. Who’s to say what will happen if burke, Dotson and Willy take the minutes of Jack, Lance and Kanter.

  25. Jack Bauer

    Horrible loss. How can they not be tanking and lose to the Lakers without Ball and KCP and Kuzma was supposedly not 100%?

    The only thing more stupid and embarrassing is if they’re NOT tanking. This team……

  26. DRed

    I was mostly hate watching the Pats game, but when I checked in on the Knicks we were going bucket for bucket with the Lakers. Why did we stop scoring?

  27. Brian Cronin Post author

    The sad thing is if we do tank by committing to the kids we might actually play better. Who’s to say what will happen if burke, Dotson and Willy take the minutes of Jack, Lance and Kanter.

    That’s the thing about legitimate rebuilds. If you try them and they surprise you with the young guys playing better than you expected, then that’s great, too. That’s why legitimate rebuilds are so good. If you play the youngsters and they suck, then you get to add good assets (and you get to add assets through trades designed to loan your cap space to other teams). If you play the youngsters and they’re surprisingly good, then great, you have a good young team and that’s great.

    But no, this team keeps moronically shooting to win 38 games every year.

  28. 2FOR18, understands math

    42 – that’s why the “wait until the trade deadline” crowd gives me agita.

  29. Grocer

    Did anyone play decently down the stretch?

    Like Max said, no. Ridiculously horrible play in all aspects from everyone.

  30. ClashFan

    The Knicks try, they really do, but they’re just not that good. The team needs more young talent; the lack of athleticism is glaring at times.

    Jack played 25 minutes, I think. That needs to go down. Lance played 8 or so. That’s okay…but he should never play more than, say, 12 in the faint hope that he can be dealt for a 2nd rounder to some desperate team or packaged with OQ, maybe.

    Beas can score, we all know that, but he needs to fade away, too. Weak D and turnovers…

    I’ll take some encouragement from the fact that Frank had some nice moments, Burke had some burn (but honestly, he looks really tiny out there), and even Willy got some minutes. More for those guys, please. And get Dotson some time.

  31. Stratomatic says "Frank is going to be a Triple Double threat eventually"

    There’s a huge difference between tanking early in the season or when you are still in playoff contention and tanking later when you’ve dropped from contention.

    IMO, the Knicks are close to 100% certain to start tanking after the trade deadline if Perry is convinced the team is not going to make the playoffs. When he makes that decision he’ll also decide if he wants to move players at the deadline. Even he can’t make any worthwhile deals, we’ll be close enough to the stage of the season where we’ll be able to get away with playing guys like Dotson, Willy, and Frank more minutes than they deserve without causing issues in the locker room. At the end of the season when the it’s all but over, everyone gets it. There are fewer issues with players that are in option years, players playing for contracts next year, players that are going to return and just want to play, and agents looking out for the best interests of players that deserve to be playing based on merit.

    We are only a couple of weeks away.

    This is not fantasy basketball. People, contracts, futures, agents, economics, and merit is involved.

  32. thenoblefacehumper

    42 – that’s why the “wait until the trade deadline” crowd gives me agita.

    I mean, if there was a half-decent deal on the table I’d say we should make it yesterday. The problem is other teams are waiting to see what happens with Tyreke Evans, Lou Williams, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, and Nikola Mirotic before they even think about Courtney Lee and Kyle O’Quinn. That’s also being rather generous in assuming our guys are ahead of all the Charlotte guys, Tyson Chandler, Nerlens Noel, and a few others I’m sure I missed.

    We probably aren’t getting shit for anyone and should probably settle for unloading them if the opportunity arises.

  33. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    Fortunately I could only watch the first half of the game, but I wasn’t encouraged. I agreed with the announcers that our offense was fine. but on defense, it seems like any team that can out rebound us gives us fits. It made me want to play Noah, rather than Hernangomez.

  34. djphan

    this was one of those games where kanter’s defense was exploited…. but to be fair none of our guys was playing any good defense either….

    crucial loss for team tank…..

  35. ess-dog

    Yeah to be fair, a team can’t really fully tank before the All-Star Break. It’s the dumb wins late in a lost Knicks season that really kills me.

  36. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    42 – that’s why the “wait until the trade deadline” crowd gives me agita

    It makes me nervous too, but very little happens in terms of trades without a deadline. The Cavaliers are probably the only team who is interested in doing something sooner, because they must feel like their ship is sinking. But even they might wait to trade when the have too. So, like it or not, we are in for at least another few weeks of this same team.

  37. chrisk06811

    I’m worried that Lebron is going to tweet something back, and Enes won’t know what to say. because Enes isn’t very good at defense

  38. Stratomatic says "Frank is going to be a Triple Double threat eventually"

    The reason teams wait until trade deadline is partly because they are still evaluating some players and the team’s prospects and partly because players are human beings. If an organization treated them like rows on a spreadsheet instead, it would come back to haunt them.

    Every player wants to play. Players like O’Quinn, Kanter, Jack, Burke, McBuckets, Beasley, and Baker either have player options, no contract for next year, or qualifying offers coming up.

    They are playing for their future income and in some cases their careers.

    If you start benching people that deserve to play based on the merits in order to play some young guy that doesn’t deserve it (even if the good player isn’t in an important career year), players will get pissed off, agents will get pissed off, word will get out you treat players like shit, and no one will want to come play for you.

    You have to do in a way that serves your interests, but without destroying the locker room and relationships with players and agents.

  39. Grocer

    We probably aren’t getting shit for anyone and should probably settle for unloading them if the opportunity arises.

    Depends what we’d need to take in exchange. Don’t want to be here a year from now trying to get rid of worse contracts.

  40. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    If you start benching people that deserve to play based on the merits in order to play some young guy that doesn’t deserve it (even if the good player isn’t in an important career year), players will get pissed off, agents will get pissed off, word will get out you treat players like shit, and no one will want to come play for you.

    I agree 100%. It’s why I don’t mind Hornacek’s rotations. He seems to reward playing well with playing time and the players accept that. So far, knock on wood, we haven’t heard much if any locker room dissent despite all the losing. I think that is part of the player’s lack of dissent. Of course, Knickerbloggers complain about the rotations, but we do that for any coach.

  41. 2FOR18, understands math

    “The reason teams wait until trade deadline is partly because they are still evaluating some players and the team’s prospects and partly because players are human beings. If an organization treated them like rows on a spreadsheet instead, it would come back to haunt them.”

    I’d like to introduce you to Belichek, first name Bill.

    What you are describing is what loser franchises do. See Knicks, NY.

  42. Grocer

    The NFL is a lot more transactional in regards to players than the NBA, and NBA players have a lot more power and control. Successful NBA franchises don’t operate that to nearly the same degree as a result. Bad analogy.

  43. 2FOR18, understands math

    To be clear, my wrath is more for the front office than for Hornacek. I’m not saying he shouldn’t play Lee or O’quinn, or even Lance given his options.
    It’s on the front office to know in October what should be done, and not wait until February, when it’s too late, to do what’s necessary.

  44. Brian Cronin Post author

    Yeah, once you have them on the team, you have to play them. The key was to not have them on the team.

  45. 2FOR18, understands math

    59 good point.
    But I’ll counter by saying that it’s one thing to pander to LeBron, Magic or Kobe, but you’ll get nowhere worrying about pissing off Courtney Lee or Lance Thomas.

  46. DRed

    The Knicks aren’t going to tank. Tanking, at least to me, means actively trying to lose. We may (hopefully) start playing younger guys more, but that’s not the same thing. If we wanted to tank it would mean 32 minutes of Thomas, Jack and Beasley.

  47. Z-man

    We’re 3.5 gms out of a tie for the #6 spot in the draft. The 8 teams immediately below us are all at least 4-6 in their last 10 games (we’re 3-7). That seems pretty stealth-tanktastic to me!

  48. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I just don’t see how the Knicks end up picking lower than #10 in this draft. Even then, you could be looking at Wendell Carter Jr, Kevin Knox, Troy Brown if he surges late this season, or Mikal Bridges at that spot. This is probably the best year I’ve seen to be a 35 win team.

  49. Z-man

    Yeah, Willy is looking more and more like a poor man’s Kanter, which is not a very effective NBA rotation player. He just doesn’t seem to be able to keep up. I’d rather we trade Kanter and play Willy, but it certainly won’t help the team win.

  50. djphan

    noel is probably close to ideal next to kp with the caveat that he also struggles against guys in the post…. the defensive possibilities are the main reason i would want to pair them together…. but i am pretty sure someone will outbid us on him….

  51. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

    I feel we already have 4 centers, why would we want a fifth one? If we trade a center for him, I would want to trade Kanter and have KOQ backed up by WHG at center, but it’s very hard to trade Kanter for him, because Kanter makes so much money. I don’t see anyone on Dallas we could get back to make the money work. I wouldn’t trade KOQ or WHG for him unless we got someone else or something else too. I think they are both more valuable than him.

  52. Bo Nateman

    To add to the challenge of trading a center for any type of value, you have Andrew Bogut out there as a free agent. With Kanter’s recent defensive struggles, hard to understand how they have not given Noah any burn at all, even if he is almost unsellable.

Comments are closed.