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Wednesday, November 22, 2017

2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Pacers

Despite a notable snowstorm (although not quite the blizzard some feared), the Knicks and Pacers will still go at it tonight. Which is good for the Knicks, as they need to get back to losing!

The Pacers are fighting for the playoffs, so this should be a loss for the Knicks, but hell, who knows with this team? That Nets loss has reduced my skepticism a great deal about the Knicks getting a top six pick (and if they get into the top six, who knows when it comes to the lottery), but the Knicks have a knack of letting you down just when you’ve started to feel hope again, so a win for the Knicks wouldn’t shock me.

Let’s go? Knicks!!

102 comments on “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Pacers

  1. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    If KP is our five and WillyBilly is his replacement why do we need O’Quinn, Noah and Plumlee?

    I miss the KP/Willy synergy.

  2. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    I like the Randall/Baker backcourt synergy almost as much as the KP/Willy frontcourt synergy.

  3. Philmelo

    I like Willy passing in the post on the strong side. That’s classic Triangle goodness.

  4. Philmelo

    Its hilarious that the second squad is running pure Triangle. Once the starting squad comes in all of that goes away.

  5. geo

    just wondering – how much do you think we’ll offer holiday to stay: 5 to 6 million a year maybe…and, is he worth that?

  6. d-mar

    I put the game on earlier and was enjoying watching a lineup of Randle, Baker, KP, Holiday and Willy. They made a nice run with some tough D and some really nice passing.

    Then Melo and Rose came in and I turned off the television.

  7. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    @20 What you missed was Paul George manhandling Melo on offense and Melo chucking and missing trying to get even.

  8. Brian Cronin Post author

    Pretty surprised Breen and Frazier are questioning Jackson.

    Dolan is fine with Jackson criticism. Just so long as the criticism is not sent his way, he’s happy. The problem in the past was that there was no buffer so criticism of the Knicks was taken personally by Dolan. If Breen and Clyde were criticizing the Knicks without the Jackson buffer, Dolan would be piiiiiissed.

  9. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    Geo, Justin Holiday is worth $8 mil per to me. But I want it to come out of Noah’s salary.

  10. RichieGuerinFan

    Knicks “management”: Please do not re-sign Rose.
    It’s one thing that you do have control of.

    Melo? Best to be gone. But no control of his fate.

  11. KnickfaninNJ

    I cant see the gAme, but the stats make it look ugly, with such low shooting percentages

  12. Philmelo

    The Knicks say Kristaps Porzingis has a contused left thigh and will not return. He suffered the injury in a collision with Monta Ellis.

  13. Brian Cronin Post author

    How are we winning this?

    Remember, the ugliest game (on both ends, of course – the Knicks have had uglier games on their end) this season by far was an Indy game. The Pacers just are not a good team.

  14. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    I think I saw Spike Lee place a lid over the Pacer’s basket at halftime.

  15. Philmelo

    I can’t believe we’re going to win this fucking game with New Orleans winning. Its like nothing we do will ever bring us closer to a better goddamn future.

  16. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    Please explain how a WS48 of .142 is such a lousy basketball player statheads.

  17. geo

    oh well, can’t lose them all…

    no doubt reub – noah should get taxed heavily each and every game he’s unable to play…shoot – turns out he wasn’t even worth the vet min this season…

  18. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    We should announce that WillyBilly has the Spanish flu and is being quarantined indefinitely.

  19. Philmelo

    Meanwhile, KP looks emotionally ragged and physically beat up Willy is looking like an absolute steal.

    Is there a way he could be a potential All Star if he develops a long range game?

  20. Brian Cronin Post author

    Sure, it’s possible. Not likely, but it’s definitely possible. He’s played really well this year.

  21. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Don’t worry guys, us being in the 6-7 position pretty much guarantees that Phil won’t make a stupid decision and we’ll end up with De’Aaron or Frank

    (please let this be true)

  22. Philmelo

    I mean, Willy’s so fucking complete right now in many aspects of his game outside of the turnover problem and his lack of a long range jumper.

  23. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    Willy made a three the other day but his foot was on the line. He’ll have a long range game shortly.

    I’ve seen him working on it with Sasha.

  24. jkhar

    So at 74-70 Horny, realizing we may win, brings in rose to make sure we don’t. Rose proceeds to make 3 good passes, and we win…ho-hum, at least coach tried!

  25. Brian Cronin Post author

    So at 74-70 Horny, realizing we may win, brings in rose to make sure we don’t. Rose proceeds to make 3 good passes, and we win…ho-hum, at least coach tried!

    But now they have to re-sign Rose, because he’s so clutch!

  26. jkhar

    Three of the best passes I’ve seen from him all year. Maybe he has finally figured it out!
    How about Melo deciding to play hard on d tonight. Maybe he… um..forget it…

  27. Bruno Almeida

    this is just the universe telling us we should have won the Nets game.

    Willy needs to be benched if he’s going to continue to wreck the tank.

    the Noah signing was so shit that when we need him the most to help the tank he’s not even available.

  28. stratomatic

    Hernangomez is easily the best young player on the team and the starting C of the future. He’s a massively better rebounder than KP, very efficient around the basket, and has a decent feel for play making that will only get better. He’s not as good a shot blocker as KP and will never have his shooting range, but all around he’s clearly the better C. If he can add just a little more on offense/defense in coming years he can become an all star caliber player. Not that I want him shooting mid range, but if he can stretch it to 3 eventually, just wow.

    The question then becomes what do we do with KP (who imo is looking more and more like a better version of Bargnani than a future Nowitski or Gasol). If he can’t cover PFs, it’s time for the Knicks to to put the hype machine away and do what the results say we should do. Against certain lineups he can play with Willy, but when the other team goes small, KP has to come off the bench. That’s where he belongs. It’s going to be hard to pull that string when KP has been so heavily hyped by the team and the league, but he’s not the player we hoped.

  29. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    I’m higher on Willy than I am on KP honestly

    We have to wait til year 3 before we make any firm evaluations but Willy has a far more polished game than KP at this point

    I agree with Strat that he’s looking more and more like a rich man’s Bargs. Let’s hope we’re wrong.

    Also this is why we need to draft a PG even if Isaac is available I think because I need to see how KP might develop with an actual distributor on the court who can guard a deck chair

  30. stratomatic

    KP is 21 years old. I wouldn’t hit the panic button just yet.

    I’m not hitting the panic button. I fully expect him to become a more efficient scorer as he becomes a better shooter, his shot selection improves, and he gets paired with a play making PG. However, his rebounding was an issue when he was selected and I see no reason to think he’s going to get better at it (which I consider critical for Cs). That’s not something that many young players get a lot better at to begin with. But he in particular has no feel for where the ball is going, never gets into good position even when not being pushed around, and reacts very slowly once a shot hits the rim. That’s not the profile of a starting C in this league. He’s a stretch PF, but he can’t guard the small quicker ones. If you are a PF and can’t guard the quick stretch PFs, you better be able to abuse them inside or you are a role player.

  31. #firePhilJackson

    reckon lost Nets game coz Willy didn’t get enough minutes.. who/what can Knicks get for KP? reckon sell now (package with Noah) while the unicorn is still shining, maybe the 1st/2nd pick plus Knick’s 6th or 7th or 8th

  32. Z-man

    Bargnani was arguably the worst starting big in the NBA, or at least the dumbest. KP is putting up average numbers, good at some things, bad at others. But yes, it’s fair to say he hasn’t developed at all this year.

  33. djphan

    17 shots 0 fta’s… that is kp’s season in a nutshell…. that cannot continue or the honeymoon period will be over real quick…

  34. Philmelo

    KP looks fatigued out there to be honest. I don’t know if its mental, physical or both but he was at a significantly slower speed out there last night. It was very disconcerting to him chucking terrible shots and then finishing the game with another leg injury.

  35. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Please pull this out Philly I don’t even care about the tank I just hate Golden state

  36. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    This team will have the 8th pick and will select the best player in the entire draft, Frank Ntilikina. It’s our destiny.

  37. JK47

    As a 20-year old, KP had a reasonably solid 20.7 DRB% and 14.0 TRB%. That came out to 9 boards per 36, and was ahead of where we thought he’d be coming out of the draft. This year as a 21-year old he’s down to an 18.1 DRB% and 11.8 TRB%.

    I know he probably misses playing next to Robin Lopez, but that is still a pretty severe dropoff considering KP is also a year older now. His rebounding is not Bargs-level bad, but it’s not good either. It’ll be very disappointing if this is Porzingis’ true level of rebounding ability.

    I think KP should at least be able to get back to where he was as a rookie, even without RoLo’s boxouts helping him pad his rebounding numbers. He looks lost out there right now, and has for quite a while. Of all the disappointments of this season, the failure of Jax and Hornacek to develop Porzingis has been the biggest of all.

  38. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

    @91 Frank can already shoot the three better than Payton can dream about it. He’s also good off of the ball and his length is superb.

  39. KnickfaninNJ

    Maybe KP hasn’t improved much this year, but it’s not fair to say he’s regressed. His rebounding is down a little, but his ts% is up thirty points, which is a lot.

  40. Z-man

    It doesn’t help KP’s image (es. w/ Knicks fans) that other young players like KAT, Jokic and Turner (and now, Hernangomez) are playing so much better than him. Of course, others like Russell, Okafor, WCS, Mudiay, Hezonja, Johnson, Winslow, Lyles, Kaminsky, not so much.

  41. #firePhilJackson

    if Phil pull a rabbit out of hat like trade KP + Knicks pick 6 for pick 1 or 2, that is like Christmas in June.. make your Lakers connection count Phil.. sell Thomas with KP to Danny Ainge or Russell with KP to Magic..

  42. Z-man

    Actually, Turner is only slightly better than KP statistically. But he looks more NBA ready, is younger, and was picked 7 picks lower. I still wouldn’t trade straight up based on upside, but I think it’s a good debate, and clearly Turner has overperformed expectations while KP, to be fair, has essentially met them. Let’s not forget, there were concerns about his rebounding and endurance, he was thought of as more of a project by most, and as a soft Eurostiff by others (hi, Jowles!).

    But Pacer fans are happier with Turner right now than Knicks fans are with Porzingis, no doubt about it.

  43. Z-man

    @96, the Lakers would love that trade and the Knicks would be crucified for making it. You’re essentially giving up your best prospect since Ewing for a chance to draft Fultz of Ball, who could just as easily disappoint at the NBA level at age 21 as Porzingis.

  44. heavencent35

    When we drafted KP, we concluded that he will be usable by year 3 and 4. He suddenly shows he can play in year one and we expected him to be a star but turns out to be average by year 2. Isn’t it still a good pick as he overwhelmed our initial expectations. His production is solid and could be an average starter by year 3 or could make a leap to an all,star or above average player. On a side note, we all agree that he is still not physiclly buff to play 5 I think it helps,him to play with solid big like rolo and it hinders him if he is expected to be the best big man in the team like this year. Only if Noah will be solid and hermo is not that tough c as of now to supplement KP.

  45. stratomatic

    Maybe KP hasn’t improved much this year, but it’s not fair to say he’s regressed. His rebounding is down a little, but his ts% is up thirty points, which is a lot.

    I was trying to console myself for awhile by looking at that. The problem is that he started the season at around 60% and it has been dropping ever since. I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I’d have to guess that since Jan 1 his TS% hasn’t been any better than last year either.

  46. KnickfaninNJ

    I understand, there’s always a recency bias in how we perceive someone. But if you’re going to say his true shooting is getting worse over the season then you have to also ask are his other statistics also getting worse. Maybe his rebounding got better lately instead of worse. I think we are victims of our expectations for him. If he was picked where Turner was, would we still be complaining about his progress? If he had been signed as a free agent for the actual salary we’re paying him, we might ecstatic at the steal we got.

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