Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, October 23, 2014

2013 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Thunder

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213 comments on “2013 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Thunder

  1. jon abbey

    yep, no need to try to rush out a content-filled preview, just give people a thread to talk. this site has gone through a few major changes, but it’s always been almost entirely about the comments/commenters, not the posts.

    this game is going to be a beating. halftime guess, 63-37 OKC.

  2. DRed

    Although it’s probably best Chuck isn’t in the studio to laugh at the beating we’re about to get.

  3. AnonymousODG

    If 2 of the following 3 players have good games: Felton, Shump, Smith, then I predict a competitive game.

    I think we’re all eager (dreading) to see just how STAT does against Ibaka/Perkins.

  4. Jp

    AnonymousODG:
    If 2 of the following 3 players have good games: Felton, Shump, Smith, then I predict a competitive game.

    I think we’re all eager (dreading) to see just how STAT does against Ibaka/Perkins.

    If he doesn’t we may lose by 40

  5. Frank O.

    We née to make note of what just happened there: Chandler and Amare can bully that team.
    Loose the beasts!!!!

  6. Jp

    Frank O.:
    We née to make note of what just happened there: Chandler and Amare can bully that team.
    Loose the beasts!!!!

    Agree we should play them like chicago/indiana plays us.

  7. Owen

    Yeah, that block was pretty sweet. Otherwise tough quarter.

    This is about how i imagined them tearing us up. A mix of dribble penetration, threes, and free throws….

    Martin quickly draws a foul forty feet from the basket. Awesome….

  8. Unreason

    On pace for 60, I wouldn’t mind them taking their time in retaping Westbrook’s ankle.

  9. AnonymousODG

    Maybe we should bring James White back out for his 3 pt shooting. I am being deadly serious. Those are the only open shots we’re consistently getting and everybody else is missing.

    James White also seems to be defending better than Shump, Smith or Felton.

  10. Nick C.

    K Mart in the thick of things on defense. A foul, gets through a pick/screen and Durant takes a long jumper to end the quarter, then a deflection leading to a steal on his first 3-4 possessions.

  11. Owen

    Goddamn KevMart. Such a loser with the foul faking…..

    Better D from Kenyon after an inauspicious debut

    This new physical Amare who lowers his shoulder and gets to the hoop. I am intrigued. Not the jump shooter i remember and I absolutely love it.

  12. Frank O.

    Owen:
    Goddamn KevMart. Such a loser with the foul faking…..

    Better D from Kenyon after an inauspicious debut

    This new physical Amare who lowers his shoulder and gets to the hoop. I am intrigued. Not the jump shooter i remember and I absolutely love it.

    Amare is so strong.

  13. DRed

    I know a lot of people take shots at Clyde, but I hope we can all at least agree he’s better than Reggie fucking Miller.

  14. Owen

    Here is a very important topic to discuss.

    Which team has the best tattoos overall.

    Obviously Novak is really hurting our TatVX. But Martin and Pipe must have us near the top of the league rankings.

    If we had just added Chris Anderson…..

  15. Owen

    I guess Amare is strong. Did not really realize it. Not something he has displayed as a Knick.

    Some bad sequences there, too bad, we were hanging in there for a sec….

  16. Owen

    Jr Smith, how i love thee, sometimes….

    Reggie Miller I absolutely detest. It’s almost Mark Jackson level hatred. My wife actually just asked why he got this job.

  17. Unreason

    Jp:
    Kmart is a solid defender.Very refreshing to watch

    Really agree. I have never ever liked him at all and didn’t expect it to be easy to get used to him in a Knicks jersey. I’m pretty much there already. If he can get away with slapping the back of Earl’s head every time he shows up unfocused and sleep deprived, I’ll be positively enthusiastic.

  18. Owen

    That was a very nice hard foul by Martin. Bringing me back to the nineties.

    That i can get behind…..

  19. rohank

    Anyone else notice the fans in the bottom right corner distracting the thunder’s 3 point shooters?

  20. AnonymousODG

    Wow, Novak has to be taken out. I cannot stand his inability to recognize who he is supposed to be covering. Just awful. Bring in Prig or White, ffs.

  21. Nick C.

    The pipe be smokin’. Or was until I typecast that and he missed a shot then turned it over on back to back possessions.

  22. Unreason

    DRed:
    Not Novak’s finest sequence as a Knick there.

    Ya, you could say that. That should never happen in public.

  23. Nick C.

    The pipe be smokin’. Or was until I typed that and he missed a shot then turned it over on back to back possessions.

  24. Frank O.

    Man, two dumb passes in a row and down by four. Can’t give this team extra possessions

  25. ephus

    Some one has to help the helper, when Amare goes to stop the Westbrook penetration on the PnR.

  26. DRed

    Be nice if they’d let us play D. We’re going to lose anyhow, but give us a chance here.

  27. DRed

    Get ‘em Earl. Really can’t complain about our play in that half at all. Great effort from the boys.

  28. Frank O.

    Love you, Earl…
    Hate you, Pipe…
    He’s like that psycho girlfriend you broke up with three times.

  29. DRed

    It’s weird, I feel that Durant didn’t do shit in that half but then you look up and he’s got 13 points.

  30. AnonymousODG

    DRed:
    It’s weird, I feel that Durant didn’t do shit in that half but then you look up and he’s got 13 points.

    Felton quietly has 12 points as well. Which is very very encouraging. Just hope Woodson has the smarts to keep Novak and Shump off the floor in favor of KMart and White.

  31. G_Rapp08

    I’m pretty surprised at how this game has gone so far, mainly with JR balling out of his damn mind. I’m not surprised to see STAT struggling though, probably got a little to used to playing against the likes of the Cavs and Pistons. Hopefully he’ll get it together in the second half.

  32. Jp

    Correct me if im wrong but i didn’t see amare get featured on the block at all that half. He got a couple on the elbow and in the pnr. Im confident he can overpower ibaka or collision and drive past perkins.

  33. er

    I must say this Knick team is one of my favs. We arent the best but we usually play balls out , and no one is afraid of the big moment even irrationally so (earl, ray etc) But i remember back in the summer alot of people were saying that they were unrootable, i think they are just the opposite. I think the league will be in for a shock in the playoffs

  34. Z-man

    Weird half, great finish for us, though. Kills me whenever we leave Durant open from 3.

  35. rohank

    DRed:
    We cut down on our turnovers and get better play from Stat and we’ve got a shot.

    And if the refs let us play defense normally

  36. Owen

    Godman it Amare….

    how can you not convert.

    Shades of Charles Smith, expect in a relatively meaningless game…

    Ibaka looking pretty good right now….

  37. AnonymousODG

    I would have thought STAT would hve regained his composure after taking it straight to Ibaka in the 2nd quarter. But he’s missing everything. Only reason we’re this close is because of his 6 lucky offensive boards.

  38. AnonymousODG

    Knicks defense playing fantastic. Thunder only scored 10 pts so far. Felton, Shump and STAT really tightened it up to start. Kidd just buttering it up.

    Fantastic performance defensively so far.

  39. Frank O.

    Nice surge here.
    The thing that is so freaky about the Thunder is they are so smooth they seem to effortlessly run off 10 here 8 there.
    They seem kind of steady, almost unemotional. You watch Ibaka or Durant. Kind of calm, expressionless.
    Pretty impressive.

  40. Owen

    Am i the ony one who finds the site is impossible to post on after a Stat tomahawk or deep Earl three?

    That was the best quarter of basketball all season.

    I don’t care what else happens tonight…..

  41. nicos

    As crazy at it is to say this may wind up being one of Stat’s better games- he’s been really good on the defensive end.

  42. Nick C.

    I can never get in either. Lovin’ this game!

    Owen:
    Am i the ony one who finds the site is impossible to post on after a Stat tomahawk or deep Earl three?

    That was the best quarter of basketball all season.

    I don’t care what else happens tonight…..

  43. AnonymousODG

    Felton HAS to play better. He’s been marginal in the 2nd half offensively at best. Missing wide open shots is one thing… but passing at STAT/Chandler’s feet when they’ve established inside position is something I still cannot believe is happening.

  44. Owen

    Shump. I am sorry but he just isn’t helping us out there…..

    That foul on Durant was AWESOME!

  45. Frank O.

    Amare having his best defensive night ever.
    Two blocks, a charge, 8 boards and his on ball D has been impressive. That plat on Westbrook was terrific.
    And he is giving the thunder fits under the hoop

  46. Owen

    We were so close to putting them on the ropes.But that second unit lost the plot.

    Still, best game in a long time….

  47. ephus

    If you had told me before the game that the teams would be tied with 6 minutes to go, I would have signed up for that in a flash.

  48. ephus

    I have an unnatural attraction to JR Smith, which is weird because bad boys ordinarily repel me.

  49. AnonymousODG

    EB:
    I just got here someone give me a summary?

    The summary is you shouldn’t have missed a single second of this game.

    We need to keep feeding STAT. Ibaka has 4. STAT I know is not finishing well, but we need more free throws and less outside shots.

  50. Nick C.

    +1 on the feeding it to Stat. Shump needs to be a last resort and then only because JR is too well guarded.

    AnonymousODG: The summary is you shouldn’t have missed a single second of this game.

    We need to keep feeding STAT.Ibaka has 4.STAT I know is not finishing well, but we need more free throws and less outside shots.

  51. AnonymousODG

    Well… it’s too late to hope for a good game from Felton. Now… to take this game, we need hero shots. I’m looking at you Kidd. 0 pts. Unacceptable. Hero time.

  52. Jp

    WTF!!!!! EVRY GAME ITS ISOLATION 4TH QTR C’MON. How bout some stat in the post and jr strong side. Something gotta be better than iso all the effin time

  53. rohank

    Nick C.:
    +1 on the feeding it to Stat.Shump needs to be a last resort and then only because JR is too well guarded.

    Right on cue

  54. Owen

    What a game….

    The kind of game that makes me want to fund a server upgrade at KB headquarters….

  55. ephus

    Great penetration by Felton, leading to a good (but not great) pass to Stat under the basket. Ibaka finally got whistled for hacking Stat as he went up at the rim.

  56. AnonymousODG

    AnonymousODG: The summary is you shouldn’t have missed a single second of this game.

    We need to keep feeding STAT.Ibaka has 4.STAT I know is not finishing well, but we need more free throws and less outside shots.

    And that’s 5 on Ibaka. Thank you Felton. Wonderful.

  57. rohank

    THAT IS BULLSHIT. THAT STUPID MOVE ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE CALLED A FOUL ANYMORE. ITS A WRITTEN CHANGE IN THE RULES FOR THIS YEAR.

  58. AnonymousODG

    rohank:
    THAT IS BULLSHIT. THAT STUPID MOVE ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE CALLED A FOUL ANYMORE. ITS A WRITTEN CHANGE IN THE RULES FOR THIS YEAR.

    Is this true?

    Jp:
    Where is tyson here

    Err, yea. Wondering the same thing. Guess Woodson trusts STAT on defense (completely justified based on past few games).

  59. ephus

    Every time JR Smith lets go of the ball, I expect it to go in. I have no problem with him taking that shot in this situation.

  60. DRed

    Honestly, that was a great effort, and you can’t be too upset, but that was a total horseshit final play.

  61. Kikuchiyo

    Tough loss but a great game.

    As a side note, the Good Ship Knickerblogger seems to be taking on some water tonight. I hope she’ll be seaworthy come playoff time.

  62. er

    DRed:
    Honestly, that was a great effort, and you can’t be too upset, but that was a total horseshit final play.

    you basically just summed up the evening in one succinct sentence. thanx

  63. Owen

    +1

    My father’s comment, no ball movement……

    er: you basically just summed up the evening in one succinct sentence. thanx

  64. AnonymousODG

    ephus:
    Every time JR Smith lets go of the ball, I expect it to go in.I have no problem with him taking that shot in this situation.

    There’s a better way to inbounds it. Everybody understood JR was getting the ball, but he was spinning the wrong way on his fadeaway. Terrible inbounds. Woodson is better at drawing up these plays, I just don’t understand.

    Kidd 0 pts. Unacceptable. We should have had this game based on our defense alone. Just a wasted effort. Only thing left to do is backhandedly draw positives away from it which is bullsh1t consolation. Our defense locked down so hard (even Shump) and we had this game. It was our’s.

    I want a road trip filled with vengeance and a bloodthirsty attitude. KMart is a great addition and hopefully a fire’s been lit.

  65. Thomas B.

    Is Woodson just playing sudoku on that dry erase half court thing he pulls outs at the end of the game? Clearly he did not draw a play on it.

  66. mr.JayP

    Thomas B.:
    Is Woodson just playing sudoku on that dry erase half court thing he pulls outs at the end of the game?Clearly he did not draw a play on it.

    i honestly thought giving the ball to felton to drive in the lane or getting it to stat in the post was the move he was going to go with. But letting JR take a contested J? c,mon.

  67. er

    Thomas B.:
    Is Woodson just playing sudoku on that dry erase half court thing he pulls outs at the end of the game?Clearly he did not draw a play on it.

    lol

  68. Jp

    Couple takeaways. If woodson insist on keeping amare coming off the bench, we can start Kmart who is exactly the defender ruru said he would maybe better. Amare is a force to be reckon with. Tonight after a rough start still found a way to contribute big. Shump IMO isn’t even at 70% of where he was last year athletically.(dude couldn’t drive past KD’s grandma if she was guarding him). Lastly, my feelings for Jr are like a pregnant woman’s hormones.

  69. Owen

    Have to disagree. Kidd did some yoeman work on the boards. And some good D. Can’t fault him for this loss.

    Can’t fault anyone really, that last play was just total bs. Go to the hoop.

  70. nicos

    Tough loss. I think Woodson has to take a little heat in that these last loses against the Heat and OKC he let them dictate his line-ups late going small both times. The Knicks weren’t able to generate any good looks with that 4 guard line-up with either Chandler or Stat at the five. They really could have used some staggered Stat/Chandler screens to get bodies moving- as it was they were totally dependent on JR and Felton going off of the dribble to get anything. Stat was moving really well on defense- I know you don’t want him on Durant but you could have tried hiding him on Sefolosha and making Durant have to guard either he or Chandler on the offensive end. Put your best five on the floor and with Melo out that means having Chandler and Stat both out there.

  71. Thomas B.

    DRed:
    This server is performing like Kurt Thomas of late.

    Jim’s stunt of insulting the server’s mother(board) in binary didn’t help things either.

  72. AnonymousODG

    mr.JayP: i honestly thought giving the ball to felton to drive in the lane or getting it to stat in the post was the move he was going to go with. But letting JR take a contested J? c,mon.

    It should never have come to that. We scored only 13 in the 4th quarter. And it wasn’t exactly good defense on OKC’s part. Just missed shots, turnovers, lack of ball movement and a blatant lack of feeds inside to STAT. Shump and Kidd were great for defense, but they literally killed our offense. Like 1st degree murdered it.

    But what I remember most of all is Felton (and to a lesser extent, JR) meandering around the 3 pt line on the opposite side of the court from where STAT was, which rendered any feeds/positioning to STAT impossible and forced him away from his spots. That’s just untenable. Because of Felton’s dimwittedness, it is my clear impression that STAT can only thrive offensively in the crunch with Chandler in the middle as highlighted here (and in other articles): http://knicksnow.com/videos/2886/inside-the-play-stat-s-baseline-success?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tweets#.UTllq1ehxF8

  73. johnlocke

    Memo 1 to JR and Woodson: amare can post up and shoot FTs. Why not run a post up for him down the stretch? Memo 2: you’re down 1 shoot right away to give yourself a chance for an offensive rebound. Memo 3: drive to the basket on Westbrooke and get fouled… Moronic play down the stretch. Just give it to Melo and get out if the way would have been so much better….oh well

  74. AnonymousODG

    nicos:
    Tough loss. I think Woodson has to take a little heat in that these last loses against the Heat and OKC he let them dictate his line-ups late going small both times.The Knicks weren’t able to generate any good looks with that 4 guard line-up with either Chandler or Stat at the five. They really could have used some staggered Stat/Chandler screens to get bodies moving- as it was they were totally dependent on JR and Felton going off of the dribble to get anything.Stat was moving really well on defense- I know you don’t want him on Durant but you could have tried hiding him on Sefolosha and making Durant have to guard either he or Chandler on the offensive end.Put your best five on the floor and with Melo out that means having Chandler and Stat both out there.

    +1

    This is exactly what I am talking about. Chandler and STAT have to be out there when it comes to crunch time otherwise STAT’s offensively at the mercy of Felton/JR dribbling aimlessly around the perimeter and burning the shot clock.

  75. Jp

    It was a great game that was very winnable, had they executed down the stretch. Or have been coached, ill take either or. This one is on woodson IMO.

  76. jon abbey

    great game, about time Martin got some daylight, he and JR looked great together in the second quarter. those two and Melo have so much history and Martin seems like he’s in plenty good shape, Woodson will be crazy not to keep giving Martin 15-20 minutes.

    and nice game by Woodson mostly, but no way Novak should have been in for those last two possessions, put Chandler in and let him crash the boards, plus if god forbid you score to go ahead, Novak is then one of your five defenders if OKC smartly doesn’t call time.

    but most impressive game in a while, too bad JR can’t almost ever play like that when Melo is around.

  77. Owen

    Just put Chandler out there to set a screen to get someone free…

    AnonymousODG: +1

    This is exactly what I am talking about.Chandler and STAT have to be out there when it comes to crunch time otherwise STAT’s offensively at the mercy of Felton/JR dribbling aimlessly around the perimeter and burning the shot clock.

  78. Owen

    And that was really funny…

    Server just killing me tonight, feels like I am being guarded by Avery Bradley or something….

    Thomas B.: Jim’s stunt of insulting the server’s mother(board) in binary didn’t help things either.

  79. BigBlueAL

    Tonight was a fun game and an amazing effort by the team so it really shouldnt be much negativity after this game but Im sorry all I can think about is how horrible Woodson coached the 4th quarter.

    On a side note, the Knicks had 10 assists tonight. Still was easily one of if not the funnest game of the season, although I usually have more fun in the end when the Knicks win lol.

  80. Jp

    BigBlueAL:
    Tonight was a fun game and an amazing effort by the team so it really shouldnt be much negativity after this game but Im sorry all I can think about is how horrible Woodson coached the 4th quarter.

    On a side note, the Knicks had 10 assists tonight.Still was easily one of if not the funnest game of the season, although I usually have more fun in the end when the Knicks win lol.

    +1

  81. nicos

    Some positives: Martin might not be able to catch an alley-oop anymore but he can still move his feet on defense. I’d be surprised if he isn’t signed for the rest of the season tomorrow.
    Two: Ibaka gave Amar’e real trouble but Amar’e still had what- 10 shots at the rim tonight against an elite defender- if he got Durant’s whistle he’d have been at the line all night. The fact that he still was able to generate that many shots at the rim on the second night of a back to back is really encouraging. Also, that was as good as I’ve seen him play defensively as a Knick- one or two mental mistakes (which you can say about every player every night) but he was solid throughout and had a half dozen really good defensive plays.

    Also, nice to see the other coach make a mistake- if Brooks had played Ronnie Brewer the Knicks would have lost by 20!

  82. BigBlueAL

    Looking back at the play-by-play, Kevin Martin hit a 3pter to give the Thunder an 87-85 lead with 8:26 left in the game. For the remainder of the game each team makes 2 field goals while Durant and Amar’e each go 4 for 4 from the FT line (Knicks outscore OKC 9-8). No field goals were made in the final 2:58 of the game.

    That was one ugly ass 4th quarter.

  83. ruruland

    nicos:
    Some positives: Martin might not be able to catch an alley-oop anymore but he can still move his feet on defense.I’d be surprised if he isn’t signed for the rest of the season tomorrow.
    Two: Ibaka gave Amar’e real trouble but Amar’e still had what- 10 shots at the rim tonight against an elite defender- if he got Durant’s whistle he’d have been at the line all night.The fact that he still was able to generate that many shots at the rim on the second night of a back to back is really encouraging.Also, that was as good as I’ve seen him play defensively as a Knick- one or two mental mistakes (which you can say about every player every night) but he was solid throughout and had a half dozen really good defensive plays.

    Also, nice to see the other coach make a mistake- if Brooks had played Ronnie Brewer the Knicks would have lost by 20!

    hahaha

  84. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    great game, about time Martin got some daylight, he and JR looked great together in the second quarter. those two and Melo have so much history and Martin seems like he’s in plenty good shape, Woodson will be crazy not to keep giving Martin 15-20 minutes.

    and nice game by Woodson mostly, but no way Novak should have been in for those last two possessions, put Chandler in and let him crash the boards, plus if god forbid you score to go ahead, Novak is then one of your five defenders if OKC smartly doesn’t call time.

    but most impressive game in a while, too bad JR can’t almost ever play like that when Melo is around.

    He used to, quite a bit actually. I just can’t imagine him shooting so poorly if he’s used properly moving forward.

    Yeah, it was obvious to anyone who watched the Clippers last year and was familiar with Martin that he’d be a great get for whomever.

  85. ruruland

    Jp:
    Couple takeaways. If woodson insist on keeping amare coming off the bench, we can start Kmart who is exactly the defender ruru said he would maybe better. Amare is a force to be reckon with. Tonight after a rough start still found a way to contribute big.

    Martin needs to start. A frontcourt of Chandler/Martin/Amar’e/Melo with occasional doses of Camby is filthy good.

    Just need the guards to play close to average.

  86. jon abbey

    yeah, Owen said that was the strongest he’s seen Amar’e as a Knick, but let’s not forget game 1 of the 2011 playoffs (less than 2 years ago!) when Amar’e went for 28 (12-18 FG) and 11 against Garnett, who seemed totally overmatched (!). he was second-team All-NBA just two years ago, and he looks like he might be even better than that right now (although in fewer minutes).

  87. Owen

    He has had some great games as a Knick. And been a true professional. But this physical play down low is pretty new for me. I remember him playing well in that series, but can’t remember just how he did it…..

    And I jinxed him a bit, ended 5-16. But he got to the line. I just like that he is making a concerted effort not to be just a jumpshooter.

    I worry though that so much physical play will get him injured.

    That said, I am definitely on board with what Stat is doing.

    Nuggets – Cllippers is a pretty sweet encore….

  88. Owen

    And honestly, i could be wrong. But it does seem like they have really tweaked his shot mix and told him to just work it down low a lot more. Which I think is a great thing.

    But someone check the numbers and tell me I am wrong. Would be fascinated to know but too lazy to check….

  89. ruruland

    Owen:
    And honestly, i could be wrong. But it does seem like they have really tweaked his shot mix and told him to just work it down low a lot more. Which I think is a great thing.

    But someone check the numbers and tell me I am wrong. Would be fascinated to know but too lazy to check….

    We’ve talked about this and even looked at the numbers in multiple threads. Are you asking about shot type or shot location?

  90. ognyc

    Does anyone have a sneaking suspicion that the game isn’t as close with Melo playing?

    Not a fan of the Melo trade, not a Melo hater, but….I think there’s something to the team relaxing when Melo’s playing, which makes it his fault that they’re not playing as well when he’s in, but not for the reason you’d think…

    thoughts?

  91. nicos

    Owen:

    I worry though that so much physical play will get him injured.

    I do worry about his back a bit- I’m not sure I’ve a post player who’s created as much space as he’s been able to this year who’s as reliant on upper body strength as Amar’e is. He doesn’t have the base of a traditional post guy like Zach Randolph or even Melo but once he uses his quick burst to get his shoulder into guys he’s really been able to bully people. Hopefully it’s not putting too much pressure on his back- his improved footwork should help but I still wonder if he can keep it up long term without tweaking his back.

  92. BigBlueAL

    ognyc:
    Does anyone have a sneaking suspicion that the game isn’t as close with Melo playing?

    Not a fan of the Melo trade, not a Melo hater, but….I think there’s something to the team relaxing when Melo’s playing, which makes it his fault that they’re not playing as well when he’s in, but not for the reason you’d think…

    thoughts?

    This game was close because JR did a Melo impersonation in the 2nd and 3rd quarters plus they played very good D in the 2nd half. But the offense was stagnant and pretty ugly for the most part (Knicks had 10 assists).

  93. jon abbey

    ognyc:
    Does anyone have a sneaking suspicion that the game isn’t as close with Melo playing?

    Not a fan of the Melo trade, not a Melo hater, but….I think there’s something to the team relaxing when Melo’s playing, which makes it his fault that they’re not playing as well when he’s in, but not for the reason you’d think…

    thoughts?

    as ruru said the other day, this is a pretty common short-term effect in the NBA when a team’s top usage guy goes out. the long-term effects I think are less predictable, BOS looks tougher without Rondo so far but it’s hard to imagine they’ll be as tough an out in the playoffs now, especially if they draw MIA.

  94. ognyc

    BigBlueAL: This game was close because JR did a Melo impersonation in the 2nd and 3rd quarters plus they played very good D in the 2nd half.But the offense was stagnant and pretty ugly for the most part (Knicks had 10 assists).

    do they play D as intensely with Melo on the court? I didn’t watch the game, unfortunately, so I’m flying blind somewhat, but Kidd being out can’t explain their playing .500 since game 24…

    Q the second: how much credence do you put into their playing up to Miami and OKC being a harbinger for their playoff run? Are they playing up to competition like the teams in the ’90s? or is that wishful thinking?

  95. ognyc

    BigBlueAL: This game was close because JR did a Melo impersonation in the 2nd and 3rd quarters plus they played very good D in the 2nd half.But the offense was stagnant and pretty ugly for the most part (Knicks had 10 assists).

    do they play D as intensely with Melo on the court? I didn’t watch the game, unfortunately, so I’m flying blind somewhat, but Kidd being old can’t explain their playing .500 since game 24…

    Q the second: how much credence do you put into their playing up to Miami and OKC being a harbinger for their playoff run? Are they playing up to competition like the teams in the ’90s? or is that wishful thinking?

  96. Owen

    Well, location i guess. He just seems to have had a lot more attempts from close, non transition variety. Fewer jumpers.

    I think we win this game with Melo. I don’t know, Shump just looked like deadwood out there tonight. And I thought that before I saw his +/-. Just not getting it done at either end….

    And yeah, about Amare. While he is playing strong, i never have thought of him as having the build of a paint warrior. Maybe he is strong enough to handle the pounding now.

    That tomahawk tonight was pretty epic. That showed me something I haven’t seen in a while….

    ruruland: We’ve talked about this and even looked at the numbers in multiple threads. Are you asking about shot type or shot location?

  97. Will the Thrill

    Shumpert pretty much looks horrible on both ends. I haven’t even really seen glimpses of what he could do last year and it’s kind of depressing. It’s kind of like putting Brewer out there.

  98. ruruland

    ognyc:

    The Knicks, in one game, shot out of their gordes against Miami.

    They beat Miami a second time shooting just average, and nearly beat them a third team shooting average (compared to their season averages from most ranges)…..

    The Knicks also beat the Spurs twice. Once when they shot very good from 3 and poorly from mid-range. They beat them a second time shooting 36 % from the field and 26% from 3.

    Conversely, they’ve lost three times to Chicago, once without Melo, and twice without Amar’e.

    In two of the games Melo played, the Bulls had two of their best shooting nights of the year.

    The Knicks lost to Indiana twice, once without Melo, and beat them once without Amar’e.

    Let’s look at all the games the Knicks have played against the top 3 teams in either conference:

    Overall record: 5-8, point margin: -.9

    That includes the 34 point loss to Indiana. Also, the Knicks have played four of those games without Melo and seven of the games without Amar’e.

    That should be a pretty good indication that the Knicks can be competitive with the NBA’s elite teams.

    The question you have to ask yourself is, are the Knicks trending up or down, have their pieces performed individually as they’re capable and collectively as they’re capable.

    In my opinion, the Knicks have been trending upward for some time, despite the results not exactly squaring up with that assessment.

    I think there have been a lot of hidden improvements, especially on defense, and that the Knicks record in this stretch is primarily attributable to very poor shooting.

    In fact, in many games over the last couple months I think they’ve played better than they did in the early part of the season.

    If the Knicks can continue to improve defensively (Kenyon helps in a big way), play more inside-out with Amar’e, giving him more minutes, and shoot in the 36-39 range from 3, they can beat any team in the playoffs in either conference.

  99. ruruland

    Owen:
    Man, nuggets…..

    Wow…..

    b2b in Denver are scheduled losses. But, yeah, playing very well right now.

    Knicks performance on 4th in 5 against better team than Clippers, without 28 points of production is more impressive than what Denver did tonight.

    The 4th game in 5 nights is like 15-20 win %e all-time win %. One can imagine what the all-time win % of that game is against a top 3 team in the conference, let alone a team on pace for more than 60.

  100. ruruland

    Well, I think Chris Herring will be reading the blog more often. Let’s see if we can provide the kind of smart analysis here that will bleed into his beat coverage. Let’s give it a shot.

    Chris, give a shout on here if you have a chance. Welcome aboard.

  101. Brian Cronin

    Penny Hardaway just asked Javale McGee if the altitude in Denver has an effect on Denver’s opponents. Huh?! Penny, dude, you played in the NBA for years! You know the answer! What a dumb question.

  102. ruruland

    It should be noted that Chris Herring does a great job on his beat (crushing everyone include Taylor and Beck) and has definitely provided some really good insight/analysis that has generated discussion here.

  103. ruruland

    Owen:
    Well, location i guess. He just seems to have had a lot more attempts from close, non transition variety. Fewer jumpers.

    I think we win this game with Melo. I don’t know, Shump just looked like deadwood out there tonight. And I thought that before I saw his +/-. Just not getting it done at either end….

    And yeah, about Amare. While he is playing strong, i never have thought of him as having the build of a paint warrior. Maybe he is strong enough to handle the pounding now.

    That tomahawk tonight was pretty epic. That showed me something I haven’t seen in a while….

    Prior to tonight, Amar’e has taken 210 of his 251 shots from inside 10 feet.

    149 (59.3 %) of those have come at the rim, where he is basically performing at career average.
    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Amare%20Stoudemire

    A substantial drop-off in percentage of shots taken from the outside as jumpers from last year:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01/shooting/2012/

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01/shooting/2013/

  104. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    Penny Hardaway just asked Javale McGee if the altitude in Denver has an effect on Denver’s opponents. Huh?! Penny, dude, you played in the NBA for years! You know the answer! What a dumb question.

    Im still trying to forget Penny’s years as a Knick.

  105. ruruland

    Brian Cronin:
    Herring’s great. I dunno about “crushing” everyone else, but he does a very good job.

    Taylor couldn’t handle the beat by himself and I don’t think he’s done one notebook or side piece that’s been as good as what Herring produces weekly. (we don’t need to talk about anyone else, but Iannazzonne is at least somewhat fair.)

    Obviously it’s all subjective, but you’ll be hard-pressed to find a NYT story that’s used the kind of advanced analysis that Herring uses weekly.

  106. ruruland

    Owen, Amar’e shot distribution from last year to this year:

    Isolations ’12: 19.9%
    ’13: 3.2%

    Post-up ’12: 10.4%
    ’13: 35.5 %

    P&R Roll ’12: 13%
    ’13: 18.6%

    Spot-up ’12: 15.3%
    ’13: 5.8%

    Cut ’12: 12.6%
    ’13: 14.9%

    With high-skill players that can be used in variety of ways, efficiency is often tied to shot distribution.

  107. Owen

    Good stuff and good to know the eyes are working….

    ruruland:
    Owen, Amar’e shot distribution from last year to this year:

    Isolations ’12: 19.9%
    ’13: 3.2%

    Post-up ’12: 10.4%
    ’13: 35.5 %

    P&R Roll ’12: 13%
    ’13: 18.6%

    Spot-up ’12: 15.3%
    ’13: 5.8%

    Cut ’12: 12.6%
    ’13: 14.9%

    With high-skill players that can be used in variety of ways, efficiency is often tied to shot distribution.

  108. Owen

    And it’s true about Denver and the btb’s…..

    Still, the Clippers are a good team and that’s a nice win.

    Nuggets are looking pretty legit. I fear their inability to hit free throws will cost them big in the playoffs though, it’s a serious achilles heel….

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