Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, August 28, 2014

2012 Playoff Thread: Game Three, Heat v. Knicks

#BeatTheHeat

539 comments on “2012 Playoff Thread: Game Three, Heat v. Knicks

  1. Brian Cronin

    Hey, anyone know who the Defensive Player of the Year Award is based on? Or is it just a generic player?

    Mutombo looks good. He really doesn’t age. He has looked 50 for his whole life.

  2. Brian Cronin

    Actually, he has some nice credits after looking him up. But still, seriously, the Knicks couldn’t get a bigger name? It’s the playoffs!

  3. 2FOR18

    Woodson should be fired now for putting Tyson on Bosh before this gets any worse

  4. Brian Cronin

    Similarly, why didn’t Melo go for the ball there? Even if he thinks it was off of Lebron, why let it go out of bounds? He could have easily gotten it. What benefit does he gain from letting it go out of bounds?

  5. 2FOR18

    Stop whining and play. How about going after the ball instead of crying for the call.

  6. Knicks4Eva

    Gideon, you can’t pass up taking a shot on this board, so your criticism seems a bit thin.

  7. Gideon Zaga

    Shut up and watch the game!!

    Knicks4Eva:
    Gideon, you can’t pass up taking a shot on this board, so your criticism seems a bit thin.

  8. Gideon Zaga

    Thats what I said last game before it became 15. We can’t let up.

    Brian Cronin:
    As bad as they’re playing, they are only down seven.

  9. 2FOR18

    Would it be dumb to put Tyson on Lebron and just play off him and make him shoot jumpers?

  10. Juany8

    Brian Cronin:
    As bad as they’re playing, they are only down seven and they have the ball.

    They’re shutting down the Heat in the half court, but the turnovers and offensive rebounds are killing them. Also this is why JR is awesome/terrible.

  11. Gideon Zaga

    See that’s what I said, Melo needs to back shane and Lebron down in the post

  12. Gideon Zaga

    If he would only shoot but I think he would drive more. Bad strategy.

    2FOR18:
    Would it be dumb to put Tyson on Lebron and just play off him and make him shoot jumpers?

  13. 2FOR18

    I like melo so much more when he drives or posts up down low. The 19 foot chucker – not so much

  14. Gideon Zaga

    Woodson better put Melo in the post and tell him to back the defender Down!

  15. 2FOR18

    lol at Lebron faking an injury but then immediately looking healthy when he argued the call

  16. Brian Cronin

    What an end to the quarter for the Knicks! When’s the last time you heard that at the end of a quarter?

    I can’t believe Lebron thought he should get a shooting foul there. Jeffries did everything you can to make that not a shooting foul.

  17. Gideon Zaga

    Awful grind quarter, we need to make quick adjustments Woody!! Their 1-4 from 3, let’s see some zone. Make them shoot and post Melo, let him get a pin down, back down. COME ON!!!

  18. er

    the heat have a great pg in lebron knicks have the baron and bibby a bit of a drop off no?

    Bison:
    The Knicks have a grand total of one (1) assist in the first quarter.Heat: 5.

  19. yellowboy90

    Brian Cronin:
    What an end to the quarter for the Knicks! When’s the last time you heard that at the end of a quarter?

    I can’t believe Lebron thought he should get a shooting foul there. Jeffries did everything you can to make that not a shooting foul.

    Reggie Miller disagrees.

  20. Gideon Zaga

    The refs wear heat jerseys under their uniform!!!

    JK47:
    Looks like the Heat get every bullshit whistle on the road too.

  21. yellowboy90

    How good will Jorts be at 250-255. I think NY got their Taj Gibson/Speights (extra big) but with the three.

  22. Nick C.

    Jorts making up for passing up a seemingly open shot under the basket with a baby hook when he gets the ball back.

  23. johnlocke

    Fields to Cronin: “Eat my Jorts!”

    Brian Cronin:
    See, Fields, just drive (don’t get me wrong, he misses both free throws here, but still)!

  24. 2FOR18

    So the Knicks go on their run with melo and LeBron on the bench. Now they’re both back and it instantly goes the other way.

  25. Knicks4Eva

    I know Lebron is big, but seriously, somebody needs to take a damn charge.

  26. art vandelay

    Gideon Zaga:
    COME ON WOODY !

    Why are you always so obsessed with the Head Coach? First it was D’antoni, whom you absolutely abhorred, and now almost all your comments are directed at Woodson (generally negative)….you do realize that the players on the court actually play the game and have the largest impact on the final outcome than the coach, whose influence is pretty minute in comparison????

  27. Gideon Zaga

    Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! ZoneZone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone
    Sorry guys! I think I have Problem!

  28. johnlocke

    As soon as Carmelo comes back in the game the offense has no fluidity…b/c either trying to force it to Carmelo or Baron small brain Davis passing to Chandler expecting him to make dribble drive plays like he’s Amare

  29. jhaelin

    why are we surprised that the 2nd team that plays as a team should do well and then lull down when the starters come on. how we have short memories..

  30. Gideon Zaga

    I blame everyone! Wish I cud start blaming you too man! I’m just this way during the game man. Nothing personal. Even in hockey, football and soccer, I still blame the coach.

    art vandelay: Why are you always so obsessed with the Head Coach? First it was D’antoni, whom you absolutely abhorred, and now almost all your comments are directed at Woodson (generally negative)….you do realize that the players on the court actually play the game and have the largest impact on the final outcome than the coach, whose influence is pretty minute in comparison????

  31. Juany8

    I know Lebron is the best player in the NBA, but I can honestly say that I wouldn’t enjoy rooting for him even if he was on my team. And I had no problem with The Decision.

  32. Will the Thrill

    oh, you do

    Gideon Zaga:
    Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! ZoneZone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone! Zone
    Sorry guys! I think I have Problem!

  33. Gideon Zaga

    See ART! everyone has their scapegoat, mine is the Coach!

    johnlocke:
    As soon as Carmelo comes back in the game the offense has no fluidity…b/c either trying to force it to Carmelo or Baron small brain Davis passing to Chandler expecting him to make dribble drive plays like he’s Amare

  34. Doug

    Knicks4Eva:
    I know Lebron is big, but seriously, somebody needs to take a damn charge.

    This made me think – I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone take a charge on Lebron.

    It’d be like taking an open field hit by an NFL linebacker.

    Even Reggie was impressed by the arc on Landry’s three.

    lol, “ASSHOLE” chant.

  35. Brian Cronin

    See, that’s what Chandler should have done the other night. If you preen after a dunk but not in someone’s face, they won’t call a T on you.

    Also, Melo has looked off a perfectly cutting Fields twice now. Look for your teammate, man! It worked before and it can work again!

  36. art vandelay

    Gideon Zaga:
    I blame everyone! Wish I cud start blaming you too man! I’m just this way during the game man. Nothing personal. Even in hockey, football and soccer, I still blame the coach.

    hahahhah! ok, that’s cool…I can complete relate to that…sign of a true fan I guess (when things go wrong)! I can hardly stay rational during games either.

  37. Doug

    Juany8:
    I know Lebron is the best player in the NBA, but I can honestly say that I wouldn’t enjoy rooting for him even if he was on my team. And I had no problem with The Decision.

    You don’t normally see a superstar openly berate his teammate on the court like that. That was uncomfortable.

  38. Juany8

    Although I’m starting to have a hard time tolerating some of Melo’s shots. He has to work his ass off in every aspect of the game right now, but he still needs to work for better shots if the team is going to have a chance. That might be the biggest advantage of having Lebron and Wade, one of them can always focus on defense and other things while the guy with the good matchup becomes the focus of the offense. Plus you can always leave one of them on the court, which means they’re going to have a top 5 player playing 48 minutes

  39. ognyc

    Anyone think this would be a good time to suggest to Amare that maybe he would want to lead the second squad to a championship, instead of jamming up the first team and getting swept in the 1st round every year?

  40. Juany8

    Brian Cronin:
    See, that’s what Chandler should have done the other night. If you preen after a dunk but not in someone’s face, they won’t call a T on you.

    Also, Melo has looked off a perfectly cutting Fields twice now. Look for your teammate, man! It worked before!

    To be fair it’s Landry Fields. At some point it has to be hard to trust him.

  41. Z

    Will the Thrill:
    oh, you do

    Listening to the game on the radio. I honestly didn’t know they were playing a zone until I saw this, so thanks. (they are playing a zone, I take it:)

  42. Doug

    DRed:
    Why is Landry Fields even on the court?He should be in the D-League.

    Someone isn’t even watching the game. Nice trolling!

  43. Brian Cronin

    To be fair it’s Landry Fields. At some point it has to be hard to trust him.

    Ha! True, but the one thing Fields always seems to be able to do is cut to the basket.

  44. Juany8

    Brian Cronin: Ha! True, but the one thing Fields always seems to be able to do is cut to the basket.

    Honestly as long as he makes his free throws he can be pretty valuable. Especially if he ever gets his shot down.

  45. Owen

    Melo is not why the Garden is electric…

    And he isn’t our best player…

    And the first time he went to the floor it’s because he didn’t hustle to get the rebound….

  46. sidestep

    smh. Melo seemed to have no clue about the clock even after running it down.

  47. 2FOR18

    Juany8:
    I know Lebron is the best player in the NBA, but I can honestly say that I wouldn’t enjoy rooting for him even if he was on my team. And I had no problem with The Decision.

    I definitely enjoy watching one of his melt downs

  48. art vandelay

    Terrible end to the quarter, unfortunately….just like in the Miami games….at least they are up, though! last year against boston in game 3 I think they were down already by 24!

  49. dogrufus

    Well, we just gave back all the momentum.

    Now we’ll be down 10 four minutes into the fourth

  50. Juany8

    Lebron was literally shoving Tyson Chandler away from Wade. It’s easy to say “play better defense” but at some point they’re not being allowed to….

  51. Gideon Zaga

    That last possession was PATHETIC WOODSON?!!why on earth would you guard the inbound!!

  52. Knicks4Eva

    They’re still the Heat, so while the run to end the half sucks, it’s not like we could have expected them to crumple.

    We still have the lead, let’s see if we can actually play Q3 for once.

  53. JK47

    Several bonehead plays undoing an awful lot of good work at the end of the half there.

  54. yellowboy90

    Gideon Zaga:
    So why did Melo get T’d up??? These officials!

    He tried to get up without pushing or shoving so of course its a tech. lol.

  55. bobneptune

    Owen:
    Goddamit what the hell was that from Wade….

    sweet last 2 possessions and outstanding d at the buzzer allowing a lay-up to d wade

  56. yellowboy90

    Juany8:
    Lebron was literally shoving Tyson Chandler away from Wade. It’s easy to say “play better defense” but at some point they’re not being allowed to….

    That was Bosh I think. Lebron in-bounded the ball

  57. DRed

    Defense has been very good so far. If JR Smith could make a fucking shot we’d be in fantastic shape.

  58. Nick C.

    Owen:
    Melo is not why the Garden is electric…

    And he isn’t our best player…

    And the first time he went to the floor it’s because he didn’t hustle to get the rebound….

    Who said he was one of the TNT guys?

  59. Juany8

    Guys momentum is overrated. Miami can’t score on the Knicks right now, it really, really helps that Amar’e is not just standing there and watching people blow by him. Novak and Fields are bad defenders but at least they freaking run out at people and try to make a difference.

  60. johnlocke

    Horrible fucking play…be aware of the damn clock

    sidestep:
    smh. Melo seemed to have no clue about the clock even after running it down.

  61. EB

    Brian Cronin:
    No, EB? He’s been really great ever since Linsanity, I think.

    I meant more way back when but yeah he’s been awesome, would have started him today

  62. johnlocke

    As I’ve been saying while everyone has argued over offense on these threads….the bad DEFENSE is the main culprit for why we are down 0-2…esp. in game 2. We need to close out these damn quarters much better. Melo get your head screwed on straight dude! Fields is not going to be our leading scorer in the 2nd half and lead us to the victory

    Juany8:
    Guys momentum is overrated. Miami can’t score on the Knicks right now, it really, really helps that Amar’e is not just standing there and watching people blow by him. Novak and Fields are bad defenders but at least they freaking run out at people and try to make a difference.

  63. 2FOR18

    Damn you would think the TNT halftime crew would at least mention that 3 of our starters are injured.

  64. David Crockett

    Whooo…

    Our offense looks dreadful, as does Miami’s. The difference appears to be turnovers right now. I’m looking at you Baron Davis.

  65. johnlocke

    Barkley still calling it a sweep… he may be right but he’s still a dick

  66. 2FOR18

    Juany8:
    Guys momentum is overrated. Miami can’t score on the Knicks right now, it really, really helps that Amar’e is not just standing there and watching people blow by him. Novak and Fields are bad defenders but at least they freaking run out at people and try to make a difference.

    Amazing but true, but they are better with Jeffries than Amare with this mix of players

  67. art vandelay

    Brian Cronin:
    Fields is 3-3 and leading the Knicks in scoring. This is the typical cue for Woodson to bench him in the second half, right?

    Fortunately (given how he has played in THIS game), there is no one really for Woody to bench him in favor of with Shump and STAT out.

  68. yellowboy90

    One thing that I think was fool’s gold was Davis on Lebron. I was surprise they did not post him up. Maybe Davis can be the Deshawn Stevenson/Jason Terry and get into his head.

  69. David Crockett

    2FOR18:
    Damn you would think the TNT halftime crew would at least mention that 3 of our starters are injured.

    Forget it.

    Barkley hates Dolan more than most Knicks fans, and after the team quit on D’Antoni he can’t fix his lips to say anything even vaguely complimentary.

  70. johnlocke

    I also liked the minutes Jorts gave us in this game and game 2 and he should be getting more playing time.

  71. 2FOR18

    yellowboy90:
    One thing that I think was fool’s gold was Davis on Lebron. I was surprise they did not post him up. Maybe Davis can be the Deshawn Stevenson/Jason Terry and get into his head.

    Hmm. In the beginning of the season I remember Lebron doing more post up work after working on some post up moves over the off season. I don;t think he’s taken one post up shot yet this series, has he?

  72. johnlocke

    The team didn’t quit on D’Antoni….D’Antoni quit on us!”

    (say that in Denzel’s Malcolm X voice)

    David Crockett: Forget it.

    Barkley hates Dolan more than most Knicks fans, and after the team quit on D’Antoni he can’t fix his lips to say anything even vaguely complimentary.

  73. David Crockett

    Gideon Zaga:
    Hope Woodson is talking defense right now!

    I hope he’s talking about not turning the damn ball over on half the possessions in one quarter every game.

  74. Juany8

    yellowboy90:
    One thing that I think was fool’s gold was Davis on Lebron. I was surprise they did not post him up. Maybe Davis can be the Deshawn Stevenson/Jason Terry and get into his head.

    Lebron has never shown the will/ability to consistently post up when it’s actually the best option for him. It’s actually kind of scary how much room for improvement Lebron has.

  75. Juany8

    Oh and the biggest irony about Barkley is that he unabashedly thinks Melo is the best offensive player in the game. So the biggest Knicks hater on TV still likes Melo more than actual Knicks fans lol

  76. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    C’mon Melo don’t leave Chalmers wide open

    Is he really supposed to let Fields guard Lebron alone? Also I love Reggie Miller’s advice to Fields. “See that Lebron guy, how he does a pretty good job on Melo? Play just like that”

  77. Jake S.

    I applaud the Knicks’ efforts to run out the clock, but there are still 20 minutes left to play.

  78. David Crockett

    I don’t want Baron Davis anywhere near this team next year. Every possession he picks up his dribble 50 feet from the basket. He doesn’t create angles to enter the pass.

  79. Nick C.

    It seems like the Knicks don’t even start their offense until under 15 seconds.

  80. Doug

    Nick C.:
    It seems like the Knicks don’t even start their offense until under 15 seconds.

    There is no dribble penetration from anyone except Landry. It’s playing with an arm behind your back.

  81. Owen

    Lol, Heat are getting some off their own medicine….

    Thank you refs…

    And good D Jr, although I think in most games that is a foul….

  82. Will the Thrill

    I’d take Fields on Lebron rather than a wide open three

    Juany8: Is he really supposed to let Fields guard Lebron alone? Also I love Reggie Miller’s advice to Fields. “See that Lebron guy, how he does a pretty good job on Melo? Play just like that”

  83. Juany8

    Gideon Zaga:
    Melo is an idiot!

    That was a bad pass by Chandler, I honestly thought it was on Melo too but Chandler threw that pretty far from everyone.

  84. Jake S.

    How many fucking defensive three seconds are they going to get today? This game is winnable and they’re giving this shit away.

  85. Juany8

    Doug: Is that sarcasm?

    No think about, now that they’re being somewhat fair, it makes the teams seem a lot more even. If you thought games 1 and 2 were remotely close to fair basketball, it would seem like the refs were paid off by the Knicks this game

  86. David Crockett

    Owen:
    Seriously, the refs are really helping us this game….

    As I said in games 1&2, road teams really just get ass-raped by NBA officials. It’s bad.

  87. Owen

    Yeah, I was being serious. They aren’t killing us. Lebron has four fouls, including two pretty ticky tack ones. We have more ft’s.

  88. johnlocke

    seriously.. you have Haslem guarding you and you dribble to the sidelines… wake the fuck up dude!

    Will the Thrill:
    Melo are you serious? Pass the damn ball

  89. 2FOR18

    If only we had a superstar complete offensive player combined with this defense we would be up by 10 right now.

  90. Owen

    Agreed. Heat’s turn…

    I love how when Lebron goes to the bench they still have Wade….

    So unfair…

    David Crockett: As I said in games 1&2, road teams really just get ass-raped by NBA officials. It’s bad.

  91. bc2k

    I don’t know what Woodson’s problem is with Fields, he’s 3/3, put him in with the 2nd unit. He did a very nice job on Wade too.

  92. Jake S.

    Not sure, but I think Reggie Miller’s throwing around a lot of double negatives.

  93. johnlocke

    What’s unfair is Wade hitting back to back threes…where the hell is that coming from

    Owen:
    Agreed. Heat’s turn…

    I love how when Lebron goes to the bench they still have Wade….

    So unfair…

  94. bc2k

    Wade was 3 for 10 when Fields was guarding him, and Woodson just left him on the bench while Wade goes nuts here in the 3rd quarter. I thought we’re a defensive-oriented team??

  95. David Crockett

    Didn’t get the finish, but I liked that high-low action to get Melo the ball on the block.

  96. Juany8

    johnlocke:
    What’s unfair is Wade hitting back to back threes…where the hell is that coming from

    He didn’t take 3′s period when they were at their most dominant. It always feels unfair when he makes them lol

  97. Kikuchiyo

    The way this game has looked tonight, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Knicks lost on a Majerle 3 at the buzzer.

  98. Owen

    I’d love to see Ruru and Miller face off in a contest to talk more effusively about Melo….

  99. johnlocke

    Was just about to say love the way JR is playing D, then Melo allows Miller, MILLER to blow by him

  100. Owen

    uh oh….

    That was ridiculous….

    Truly ridiculous….

    We need a gif of those two picks….

  101. Will the Thrill

    Can someone explain the intentional foul on Jeffries? That was TD dumb.

  102. Gideon Zaga

    See how the refs helping the Knicks lose?

    Owen:
    uh oh….

    That was ridiculous….

    Truly ridiculous….

    We need a gif of those two picks….

  103. johnlocke

    About to write Melo fucking killing us this quarter…and then he PASSES to Bibby….

  104. David Crockett

    Unfortunately, Woody will probably go back to Baron Davis who will promptly turn it over five more times.

  105. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    Can someone explain the intentional foul on Jeffries? That was TD dumb.

    When your teammate gets taken out with the exact same foul that got Tyson Chandler a flagrant in game 1, you get frustrated. My only problem is that he should have just thrown him out of bounds, this is pretty pathetic to watch. And no, the Knicks would not win with fair refs, but it would at least be a fun series to watch.

  106. johnlocke

    Keep Baron’s ass tied to the bench….Woodson can be just as stubborn as D’Antoni in sticking with what is clearly not working.
    JR is playing great D out there though….that’s what I’ve been most impressed by this game. And where is Jorts? Gave us solid minutes and can do something offensively and he gets no burn in the 3rd quarter??

    David Crockett:
    Unfortunately, Woody will probably go back to Baron Davis who will promptly turn it over five more times.

  107. David Crockett

    Juany8: When your teammate gets taken out with the exact same foul that got Tyson Chandler a flagrant in game 1, you get frustrated.

    Nope. Joel was standing still.

  108. BigBlueAL

    Just got home, checked the box score, saw Melo’s shooting numbers. No comment.

  109. er

    lol he played like 5 mins in the 3rd its not that big of a deal

    New Guy:
    Well LeBron showed up for the 4th.Melo?Any time you want to start.

  110. Gideon Zaga

    You should see the defense, the easiest shot he’s gotten all night has been free throws. Are u kidding me? I’ll let this slide because you just got home.

    BigBlueAL:
    Just got home, checked the box score, saw Melo’s shooting numbers.No comment.

  111. johnlocke

    He’s been the best Knick tonight and not close. Demon defense on Wade. If Carmelo was playing a regular sub-par game instead of atrocious we’d be leading

    2FOR18:
    I love/hate JR 10 times a game

  112. art vandelay

    Gideon Zaga:
    You should see the defense, the easiest shot he’s gotten all night has been free throws. Are u kidding me? I’ll let this slide because you just got home.

    He just got home during a playoff game? Should we really let it slide…hahaha….

  113. johnlocke

    When he’s 5-20 he should be looking to get double-teamed and pass. Jeffries isn’t in there. And Bibby has hit 2 threes

    Kikuchiyo:
    Seriously, who is Melo supposed to pass it to? Bibby? Fields? Jeffries?

  114. BigBlueAL

    Gideon Zaga:
    You should see the defense, the easiest shot he’s gotten all night has been free throws. Are u kidding me? I’ll let this slide because you just got home.

    You guys defending Melo act like he is the only player who gets alot of attention from the opposing defense. 5 for 20?? Gimme a break.

    But I dont care about the first 3 quarters, all I care about is the rest of this game. As I say that, LeBron blows by Melo for an And1 layup. Sigh.

  115. BigBlueAL

    art vandelay: He just got home during a playoff game? Should we really let it slide…hahaha….

    I was working lol. I was checking the score but didnt have a box score to look at.

  116. Gideon Zaga

    Yep Yep you’re right! Happy?

    BigBlueAL: You guys defending Melo act like he is the only player who gets alot of attention from the opposing defense.5 for 20??Gimme a break.

    But I dont care about the first 3 quarters, all I care about is the rest of this game.As I say that, LeBron blows by Melo for an And1 layup.Sigh.

  117. johnlocke

    He was terrible…one game like this….OK. But two and one on your home court in a must win….

    Jake S.:
    This game was there for the taking and Melo sucked up and down the court.

    We’re fucked. And it will be a sweep

    Frank O.:
    We’re tired

  118. Kikuchiyo

    Not so much defending Melo as asking what the hell else a Knicks fan is supposed to hope for.

  119. Juany8

    Well, I guess it was fun to see what happens when Melo passes a lot. Playing Miami sucks. Go look at what they did to Derrick Rose last year, who has supposed all star luol deng to help with the offensive load.

  120. johnlocke

    I was hoping we’d go down fighting, I was hoping Melo would prove why we traded a whole team for him…I was hoping..

    Kikuchiyo:
    Not so much defending Melo as asking what the hell else a Knicks fan is supposed to hope for.

  121. 2FOR18

    I love Chandler but his lack of any kind of post game is a killer against the Heat. The Lakers or Spurs will exploit the Heat down low.

  122. Jake S.

    For a minute there, I thought Lebron was going to rip out Melo’s spine like Scorpion in Mortal Kombat.

  123. johnlocke

    We are making them look better than they are.

    2FOR18:
    I love Chandler but his lack of any kind of post game is a killer against the Heat.The Lakers or Spurs will exploit the Heat down low.

  124. Nick C.

    johnlocke:
    Novak lowering his value this series

    about the only good thing you can say is he keeps Battier (usually) occupied guarding him.

  125. sidestep

    Novak didn’t/couldn’t try to get a shot off in the corner with a second left. It’s amazing how his 6’10” height is just a waste.

  126. ognyc

    its amazing that Reggie can speak so well with LeBron’s jizz dripping out of his mouth…this is nauseating…

  127. 2FOR18

    Juany8:
    Well, I guess it was fun to see what happens when Melo passes a lot. Playing Miami sucks. Go look at what they did to Derrick Rose last year, who has supposed all star luol deng to help with the offensive load.

    I don’t know, melo basically had the same game this game as in game 2, except a few more of his long shots went in in game 2. But yeah, we are just outmanned. I will be rooting for the Heat/Spurs to make Lebron cry in the finals.

  128. er

    also the biggest key to this game was actually the stretch where lebron sat in the 3rd he came out with a passion in the 4th when the nix were exhausted

    New Guy:
    The Carmelo Anthony debate is over.

  129. johnlocke

    another one of WOodson’s knucklehead moves this series… that and thinking Carmelo should/could guard Lebron

    Jake S.:
    Why no Jorts in the second half?

  130. sidestep

    2FOR18: I will be rooting for the Heat/Spurs to make Lebron cry in the finals.

    It doesn’t take much to make Lebron cry. His whining is pure superstar.

  131. New Guy

    This is so strikingly similar to the 2004 Marbury team and their performance against the Nets.

  132. johnlocke

    Lebron just demolished Melo ….feels like when Jordan just punked Drexler in the playoffs ….SAD

  133. Kikuchiyo

    New Guy:
    This is so strikingly similar to the 2004 Marbury team and their performance against the Nets.

    Amar’e = Tim Thomas, sitting on the bench.

  134. Juany8

    er:
    lol yea 1 on 3 hes awful

    Rose did just as poorly doing the same thing last year. And boozer, Deng, and Noah are supposedly better players than Melo no? Not to mention anyone on this team but Chandler…

  135. johnlocke

    Hey Amare….punch something with your right hand this time …b/c no one will give a damn this time!

  136. er

    excuse me look at the rosters for over half the games no amare no shump no billups etc….its not like they are choking games away

    New Guy:
    er:

    7 playoff games.can’t win 1.

  137. Gideon Zaga

    Whatever man blame whoever you want if it makes you sleep good at night. I have zynex so im good!

  138. er

    hes the best player in the league and the refs fucked up by getting him in foul trouble lol

    johnlocke:
    Lebron just demolished Melo ….feels like when Jordan just punked Drexler in the playoffs ….SAD

  139. er

    except the heat have two of the best 4 players in the league on the team

    New Guy:
    This is so strikingly similar to the 2004 Marbury team and their performance against the Nets.

  140. Will the Thrill

    er: no excuses the heat are better dude…what you talking about

    Will the Thrill:
    Andddddddd bring on the excuses!

    er:
    excuse me look at the rosters for over half the games no amare no shump no billups etc….its not like they are choking games away

  141. 2FOR18

    Juany8: Rose did just as poorly doing the same thing last year. And boozer, Deng, and Noah are supposedly better players than Melo no? Not to mention anyone on this team but Chandler…

    Works both ways. If some are going to claim melo is a top 5 superstar who is the best complete scorer in the game, then those “some” ought to expect a little grief from pissed off knicks fans after 3 games of this garbage.

  142. cgreene

    Somehow some way the Knicks always manage not just to lose but to make an embarrassment out of themselves. Fucking team can’t even lose with dignity. They have to be a laughing stock. Flus, injuries, “star” players cutting themselves, 14 straight playoff losses.

    Sure Melo didn’t have anyone to pass to that’s any good. But he sucked. Period. And whatever it was that Woodson was running that was supposed to be called an offense was a joke. Dude coached himself out of a job. Jeez! Amazing how fast this franchise can spoil 6 weeks of good will.

  143. Gideon Zaga

    I blame my Grand Dad for raising me a Knick fan, makes me sleep good at night.

  144. er

    he sucked today…no one is saying he was good…but the heat are just better….when lbj sat wade killed em and when he came back he killed em

    2FOR18: Works both ways.If some are going to claim melo is a top 5 superstar who is the best complete scorer in the game, then those “some” ought to expect a little grief from pissed off knicks fans after 3 games of this garbage.

  145. Peter87

    I think I’m not gonna waste money on League Pass again next year…

    can any of you eternal optimists give me even a ray of hope for the next 3 years?

  146. johnlocke

    Woody’s decisions:
    - no play calls to get Novak a shot
    - no Jorts in the 2nd half
    - having Melo guard Lebron
    - no innovative play calling that I could decipher, other than having Baron dribble till 10 seconds was left and force a bad pass

    Melo’s decisions:
    Showing up late to the game (reportedly) and forgetting to carry his shot with him from wherever he left it last

    My decision:
    Deciding if I should root for the Lakers, Spurs or OKC to rip the hearts out of the smirking, front-running core of Lebron, Wade and Spoelstra

  147. johnlocke

    Lebron killed us, Wade killed us and Melo killed us

    er:
    he sucked today…no one is saying he was good…but the heat are just better….when lbj sat wade killed em and when he came back he killed em

  148. Gideon Zaga

    I actually agree with the Woodson part although pretty unfair!

    cgreene:
    Somehow some way the Knicks always manage not just to lose but to make an embarrassment out of themselves.Fucking team can’t even lose with dignity.They have to be a laughing stock.Flus, injuries, “star” players cutting themselves, 14 straight playoff losses.

    Sure Melo didn’t have anyone to pass to that’s any good.But he sucked.Period.And whatever it was that Woodson was running that was supposed to be called an offense was a joke.Dude coached himself out of a job.Jeez!Amazing how fast this franchise can spoil 6 weeks of good will.

  149. BigBlueAL

    Novak went scoreless and only took 2 shots in 22 mins?? Any team who offers him more than the bi-annual exemption the Knicks can offer are nuts.

  150. JC Knickfan

    Spur most sound team, but I root for whoever they play.
    As long they fuckin lose another finals. No one in east going stop them.

  151. johnlocke

    co-sign x 10

    cgreene:
    Somehow some way the Knicks always manage not just to lose but to make an embarrassment out of themselves.Fucking team can’t even lose with dignity.They have to be a laughing stock.Flus, injuries, “star” players cutting themselves, 14 straight playoff losses.

    Sure Melo didn’t have anyone to pass to that’s any good.But he sucked.Period.And whatever it was that Woodson was running that was supposed to be called an offense was a joke.Dude coached himself out of a job.Jeez!Amazing how fast this franchise can spoil 6 weeks of good will.

  152. cgreene

    Ruru, I’ve been on your side a lot on this debate. But it’s time to address Melo as someone who can’t handle the big lights on the big stage. Your boy doesn’t have the next level stuff.

  153. max fisher-cohen

    @er, the scores have been the same when healthy and when not healthy. This game looked about the same as the two in Miami when Stoudemire was healthy. We got embarrassed in the game with Shumpert as well. Fields played a very strong game today, defended Wade better than we could have dreamed Shumpert would, and it was still crash and burn.

  154. JC Knickfan

    BigBlueAL:
    Novak went scoreless and only took 2 shots in 22 mins??Any team who offers him more than the bi-annual exemption the Knicks can offer are nuts.

    I guessing he just lost 1 million in the play this series alone.

  155. yellowboy90

    Juany8: Rose did just as poorly doing the same thing last year. And boozer, Deng, and Noah are supposedly better players than Melo no? Not to mention anyone on this team but Chandler…

    Only wins will stop the debate. He played poorly. He is pushing and not letting the game come to him. They need to get the others involved first to get their confidence. I would also like to see some cross screens for Melo, Novak, and Smith. Bottom line is Melo still must step up and help his team win. It is on him, regardless.

  156. er

    The heat are a better team

    max fisher-cohen:
    @er, the scores have been the same when healthy and when not healthy. This game looked about the same as the two in Miami when Stoudemire was healthy. We got embarrassed in the game with Shumpert as well. Fields played a very strong game today, defended Wade better than we could have dreamed Shumpert would, and it was still crash and burn.

  157. johnlocke

    Our defense was great. We lost that game in the 1st half…when we should have been up at least 12 – 15 pts, but Melo threw up brick after brick…not to mention the momentum killing pass to Fields with no time on the clock to end the half.
    Look – I’m pissed – but I was really hoping Melo would come through in the clutch and prove his critics wrong. Looks like he’s clutch in the regular season. His season versus playoff stats are not pretty at all.

    max fisher-cohen:
    @er, the scores have been the same when healthy and when not healthy. This game looked about the same as the two in Miami when Stoudemire was healthy. We got embarrassed in the game with Shumpert as well. Fields played a very strong game today, defended Wade better than we could have dreamed Shumpert would, and it was still crash and burn.

  158. Doug

    JC Knickfan: I guessing he just lost 1 million in the play this series alone.

    Novak’s flaws being exposed might be a blessing in disguise for the offseason lol

  159. DRed

    JC Knickfan: I guessing he just lost 1 million in the play this series alone.

    Maybe from other teams where the offense consists of 4 guys standing around watching someone dribble aimlessly. A team with a good point guard or an actual offense would probably still want Novak.

  160. er

    i think this series is just a bad matchup for the guy…the heat have like 4 guys who can guard him straight up so he doesnt tilt the defense as much unless he is unconscious like the reg season game at the garden

    cgreene:
    Ruru, I’ve been on your side a lot on this debate.But it’s time to address Melo as someone who can’t handle the big lights on the big stage.Your boy doesn’t have the next level stuff.

  161. er

    i agree with first half

    johnlocke:
    Our defense was great. We lost that game in the 1st half…when we should have been up at least 12 – 15 pts, but Melo threw up brick after brick…not to mention the momentum killing pass to Fields with no time on the clock to end the half.
    Look – I’m pissed – but I was really hoping Melo would come through in the clutch and prove his critics wrong. Looks like he’s clutch in the regular season.His season versus playoff stats are not pretty at all.

  162. 2FOR18

    Gideon Zaga:
    ????

    When you said zynex I thought you meant xanax, which I love. Anyway, carry on sir. Hopefully the 2020′s will work out for us long suffering Knicks fans.

  163. BigBlueAL

    Only way Knicks avoid a sweep is if both Lin and D’Antoni return for Game 4. lol

  164. Spree8

    Hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call for both Woodson & Melo. It’s time to put an end to Melo-ball and welcome Team-ball. We have too much talents to have them stand around and watch Loser-ball.

  165. johnlocke

    Lin is not returning and D’Antoni is in Italy laughing and drunk right now ….singing odes to Deron Williams

    BigBlueAL:
    Only way Knicks avoid a sweep is if both Lin and D’Antoni return for Game 4.lol

  166. er

    there wasnt that much talent on the court today…idk what you where watching

    Spree8:
    Hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call for both Woodson & Melo. It’s time to put an end to Melo-ball and welcome Team-ball. We have too much talents to have them stand around and watch Loser-ball.

  167. JC Knickfan

    DRed: Maybe from other teams where the offense consists of 4 guys standing around watching someone dribble aimlessly.A team with a good point guard or an actual offense would probably still want Novak.

    Honestly against team like Miami, who give them credit, freakin close damn quick, will make Novak value look crappy.

    So are team going sign him as role player knowing he might not get any minutes again top defense in playoffs? We’ll see what happens.

  168. ephus

    Five bitter thoughts:

    1. Novak’s lack of shots tonight is on Novak. He passed up at least four catch and shoot opportunities. He needs to understand that he is out there to gun. If he allows the Heat to force him to put the ball on the floor, he is entirely useless.

    2. ‘Melo does not have the stamina to play all the minutes that Woodson is putting on him. He had nothing left in the fourth quarter.

    3. JR Smith is infuriating and tantalizing. Million dollar body, ten cent head.

    4. Tyson Chandler had a horrible game catching the ball and finishing at the rim. He missed some key opportunities to kick out of the key to Novak for open threes. The give-away to Lebron for the 3 point play in the third quarter was ugly and key.

    5. No blaming this game on the refs. Knicks lost this one on their own.

  169. BigBlueAL

    johnlocke:
    Lin is not returning and D’Antoni is in Italy laughing and drunk right now ….singing odes to Deron Williams

    No point for Lin to return now. Just get healthy for next season.

  170. johnlocke

    So are the Celtics apparently…. he’s been pretty inconsistent in the playoffs…..including some real stinkers

    er:
    i think this series is just a bad matchup for the guy…the heat have like 4 guys who can guard him straight up so he doesnt tilt the defense as much unless he is unconscious like the reg season game at the garden

  171. er

    yea the celtics are pretty good at last look

    johnlocke:
    So are the Celtics apparently…. he’s been pretty inconsistent in the playoffs…..including some real stinkers

  172. 2FOR18

    Doug: Lin = ??
    Shump = ??

    OH NO YOUR PRECIOUS NARRATIVE

    I hear you, but think about this.

    So we can’t do anything but embarrass ourselves when we have a superstar-best -complete-scorer- in-the-game, a DPOY beast at Center, and a 20 mil max PF, unless our rookie who played better then we could have ever hoped and a 2nd year player out of the D League are playing? If that’s what we’re saying, then this fucking blows, doesn’t it?

  173. bobneptune

    Doug: Novak’s flaws being exposed might be a blessing in disguise for the offseason lol

    the entire coaching staff’s flaws were on display…. not novak’s.

    telling a player who is a great shooter to run behind the arc isn’t an offense. look at the elaborate schemes indiana and boston ran to get their great shooters (miller and allen) free. have the knick ever run a curl since allan houston retired.

    i mean these are the bleepin playoffs where you play a team 4 to 7 games in a row…. you’ve got to be a little innovative to free your shooters up.

  174. er

    the heat are very good and i think people are forgetting this…the knicks need to play damn near perfect to win and they have done anything but

    2FOR18: I hear you, but think about this.

    So we can’t do anything but embarrass ourselves when we have a superstar-best -complete-scorer- in-the-game, a DPOY beast at Center, and a 20 mil max PF, unless our rookie who played better then we could have ever hoped and a 2nd year player out of the D League are playing?If that’s what we’re saying, then this fucking blows, doesn’t it?

  175. 2FOR18

    ephus:
    Five bitter thoughts:

    1.Novak’s lack of shots tonight is on Novak.He passed up at least four catch and shoot opportunities.He needs to understand that he is out there to gun.If he allows the Heat to force him to put the ball on the floor, he is entirely useless.

    2.‘Melo does not have the stamina to play all the minutes that Woodson is putting on him.He had nothing left in the fourth quarter.

    3.JR Smith is infuriating and tantalizing.Million dollar body, ten cent head.

    4.Tyson Chandler had a horrible game catching the ball and finishing at the rim.He missed some key opportunities to kick out of the key to Novak for open threes.The give-away to Lebron for the 3 point play in the third quarter was ugly and key.

    5.No blaming this game on the refs.Knicks lost this one on their own.

    In prior games Clyde has been on Novak to do some type of pump fake since defenders run so hard at him. Novak never does a pump fake.

  176. johnlocke

    1. Unlike shooters like Korver or Morrow…Novak is slow as molasses and is not very good at getting open…he just spots up. Part of that’s on him, part is on Woodson for calling no plays for him.
    2. Melo should not have been guarding Lebron, it makes no sense.
    3. For me, this is the most I’ve been impressed with JR this series, not b/c of his inefficient shooting but his impressive defense…some other team will pick up his pluses and headaches next season
    4. Tyson does not have good hands and he needs to finish better. He needs to work with the coaches on finishing non-dunks more effectively and getting at least one post move. Even Perkins in OKC has a post move.
    5. We lost it on our own…only way we were going to win was if Melo played big and others stepped up. With the crowd behind us we could have gone in w/ at least a 12-15 pt lead…but our superstar was below average for an average NBA player

    ephus:
    Five bitter thoughts:

    1.Novak’s lack of shots tonight is on Novak.He passed up at least four catch and shoot opportunities.He needs to understand that he is out there to gun.If he allows the Heat to force him to put the ball on the floor, he is entirely useless.

    2.‘Melo does not have the stamina to play all the minutes that Woodson is putting on him.He had nothing left in the fourth quarter.

    3.JR Smith is infuriating and tantalizing.Million dollar body, ten cent head.

    4.Tyson Chandler had a horrible game catching the ball and finishing at the rim.He missed some key opportunities to kick out of the key to Novak for open threes.The give-away to Lebron for the 3 point play in the third quarter was ugly and key.

    5.No blaming this game on the refs.Knicks lost this one on their own.

  177. art vandelay

    Peter87:
    I think I’m not gonna waste money on League Pass again next year…

    can any of you eternal optimists give me even a ray of hope for the next 3 years?

    Yes, there is a small chance in the playoffs we will play with a full team (Lin, STAT, Shump) and actually be pretty good…at full force I actually think the team would be pretty formidable.

  178. johnlocke

    He pump fakes all the time…it’s just that when smart defenders close out and don’t jump…he can’t dribble, he’s too slow and he’s not a very good passer. He was big for us this season, but it’s not like we’re geniuses and other coaches were morons, he has significant limitations.

    2FOR18: In prior games Clyde has been on Novak to do some type of pump fake since defenders run so hard at him.Novak never does a pump fake.

  179. JC Knickfan

    I due miss my linsanity, but he not coming back game 4. We just don’t matchup will against heat and Woodson has no visible gameplan against them.

    Defense intensity was there, but brick after brick will get spirits down. Going to 4th down 2, did anyone have feeling where will pull this out? We keeping Lebron\Wade some bad shooting numbers, but I expect them to hit us hard in 4th. We just don’t offense keep up with then.

  180. ephus

    In the fourth quarter, Chalmers was able to launch (and make) two 3pts unguarded because the Knicks did not hustle back on defense. First time, Chandler and ‘Melo were the culprits. The second time, JR Smith did not get back. Miami makes the Knicks pay for virtually every mental breakdown.

    @412, it’s true that the Knicks do not run any curls for Novak, but he still was very slow on the trigger when the got the ball on the perimeter. Honest question: Is Novak a good enough athlete to get low and run off of a curl. I have not seen any indication that he can retain his shooting accuracy when moving the way that Mike Miller and Ray Allen do.

  181. hoolahoop

    2FOR18: In prior games Clyde has been on Novak to do some type of pump fake since defenders run so hard at him.Novak never does a pump fake.

    There should be a rule that you’re required to watch games before being allowed to post here.

  182. Owen

    I think Melo actually moved the ball pretty well. He did some excellent passing. But overall, not good from him.

    The Heat are tough. That’s the bottom line. Not the matchup we wanted.

  183. JC Knickfan

    ephus:
    In the fourth quarter, Chalmers was able to launch (and make) two 3pts unguarded because the Knicks did not hustle back on defense.First time, Chandler and ‘Melo were the culprits.The second time, JR Smith did not get back.Miami makes the Knicks pay for virtually every mental breakdown.

    @412, it’s true that the Knicks do not run any curls for Novak, but he still was very slow on the trigger when the got the ball on the perimeter.Honest question: Is Novak a good enough athlete to get lowand run off of a curl.I have not seen any indication that he can retain his shooting accuracy when moving the way that Mike Miller and Ray Allen do.

    Agree

  184. hoolahoop

    bobneptune: the entire coaching staff’s flaws were on display…. not novak’s.

    telling a player who is a great shooter to run behind the arc isn’t an offense. look at the elaborate schemes indiana and boston ranto get their great shooters(miller and allen) free. have the knick ever run a curl since allan houston retired.

    i mean these are the bleepin playoffs where you play a team 4 to 7 games in a row…. you’ve got to be a little innovative to free your shooters up.

    Thanks for all your posts this season. You’re one of the guys here who knows what they’re talking about.

  185. 2FOR18

    johnlocke:
    He pump fakes all the time…it’s just that when smart defenders close out and don’t jump…he can’t dribble, he’s too slow and he’s not a very good passer. He was big for us this season, but it’s not like we’re geniuses and other coaches were morons, he has significant limitations.

    OK guess I’m wrong, but he doesn’t seem to sell it to me – just a little tiny fake I thought, but I’ll watch closer next game.

  186. bobneptune

    somewhere in middle america, walmart heir Stan Kroenke is just laughing himself silly!

  187. JC Knickfan

    Owen:
    I think Melo actually moved the ball pretty well. He did some excellent passing. But overall, not good from him.

    The Heat are tough. That’s the bottom line. Not the matchup we wanted.

    2 assist is moving ball good? Keep in mind he took 1/3 of all Knicks shots.

  188. ephus

    If Novak comes back next season, I would love to see the Knicks use him to set the screen on the PnR — a la Ryan Anderson. He would be a deadly on the pick and pop.

  189. hoolahoop

    Owen:
    I think Melo actually moved the ball pretty well. He did some excellent passing. But overall, not good from him.

    The Heat are tough. That’s the bottom line. Not the matchup we wanted.

    Are you kidding me. He was going into double and triple coverage all game forcing up nonsensical shots. He made a couple of good passes, but for the most part it was all iso ball.

  190. bobneptune

    ephus:

    @412, it’s true that the Knicks do not run any curls for Novak, but he still was very slow on the trigger when the got the ball on the perimeter.Honest question: Is Novak a good enough athlete to get lowand run off of a curl.I have not seen any indication that he can retain his shooting accuracy when moving the way that Mike Miller and Ray Allen do.

    maybe they could try it once and we’d see :-)

  191. er

    not really most of his misses were at the rim or makeable shots…i know it doesnt fit your narrative tho

    hoolahoop: Are you kidding me. He was going into double and triple coverage all game forcing up nonsensical shots. He made a couple of good passes, but for the most part it was all iso ball.

  192. johnlocke

    Wow – you know Melo played a crappy game when even Owen feels bad for him =)
    blockquote cite=”comment-389867″>

    Owen:
    I think Melo actually moved the ball pretty well. He did some excellent passing. But overall, not good from him.

    The Heat are tough. That’s the bottom line. Not the matchup we wanted.

  193. nicos

    johnlocke:
    He pump fakes all the time…it’s just that when smart defenders close out and don’t jump…he can’t dribble, he’s too slow and he’s not a very good passer. He was big for us this season, but it’s not like we’re geniuses and other coaches were morons, he has significant limitations.

    He should be able to take one dribble off of the fake and get a wide open 18 footer. He fakes and then stays behind the line rather than taking a step in- that’s there for him a lot and against the Heat a wide open 18 footer is about as good as you’re going to get. It’d be nice to see him at least try a back door cut early in the clock just to keep them honest.

  194. bobneptune

    ephus:
    If Novak comes back next season, I would love to see the Knicks use him to set the screen on the PnR — a la Ryan Anderson.He would be a deadly on the pick and pop.

    way too innovative for woody and melo

  195. jon abbey

    that was painful and inevitable. one more, then we’re out of our misery for another six months or so.

  196. hoolahoop

    BigBlueAL: No point for Lin to return now.Just get healthy for next season.

    Lin’s not coming back. Amare’s not coming back. It was all BS to make fans happy and to make them look tough.

    They would be insane to come back at this point.

  197. JC Knickfan

    hoolahoop: Thanks for all your posts this season. You’re one of the guys here who knows what they’re talking about.

    You need watch game tape of other 3 pt specialist like Kyle Korver and you know why Novak on his 5th team in 6 years in the league. Then you need watch him play defense and rebound.

  198. 2FOR18

    Once again, my sympathies for whoever is doing the recap, but thanks again for the relief they bring. Probably only 1 more to look forward to til next season.

  199. StatsTeacher

    We just need a 20. A 20-day timeout. . . . . . . . .

    Not a Melo supporter at all, but some of the lineups we rolled out tonight. . . . .didn’t we have Bibby, Jeffries, Jorts, Landry and JR at one point? Even the TNT dickheads said that this impossible down 3 starters. . . .so true.

    BigBlueAL:
    Only way Knicks avoid a sweep is if both Lin and D’Antoni return for Game 4.lol

  200. Owen

    JC Knickfan: 2 assist is moving ball good?Keep in mind he took 1/3 of all Knicks shots.

    I don’t know. I feel like they missed a few open looks he created. Trying to throw Melo a bone…

  201. johnlocke

    You need to see if Novak has the ability to run away from anyone? LOL. Doubt he could run away from his shadow. Houston and Allen are pure-bred althletes…Novak is a slow, dead-eye shooter, who cannot shoot off the dribble but is deadly on spot-ups.

    bobneptune: maybe they could try it once and we’d see :-)

  202. hoolahoop

    Spree8:
    Hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call for both Woodson & Melo. It’s time to put an end to Melo-ball and welcome Team-ball. We have too much talents to have them stand around and watch Loser-ball.

    Nothing will wake up Melo to pass the ball. As long as he’s the teams best scorer he’ll continue to play the only way he knows how.
    Hero ball. It’s ugly and you can never win a championship with that style.

  203. nicos

    StatsTeacher:
    We just need a 20.A 20-day timeout. . . . . . . . .

    Not a Melo supporter at all, but some of the lineups we rolled out tonight. . . . .didn’t we have Bibby, Jeffries, Jorts, Landry and JR at one point?Even the TNT dickheads said that this impossible down 3 starters. . . .so true.

    That was the most productive line-up we put out there!!

  204. johnlocke

    We don’t even have the draft to look forward to… so sad.
    Really enjoyed this blog throughout the season….feels like we’re doomed to mediocrity or even worse Atlanta Hawks level of success….I sure hope I’m wrong and that Lin develops his left hand and becomes Tony Parker redux, Shump heals and is back 100%, Amare learns how to play defense and gets his shot back, Melo doesn’t go through streaks of greatness and slumps, and we hire a coach who in addition to preaching defense also has a handle on how to run a more complex and flexible offensive system

    jon abbey:
    that was painful and inevitable. one more, then we’re out of our misery for another six months or so.

  205. Z

    er:
    there wasnt that much talent on the court today…idk what you where watching

    Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history. Against a great defensive team. With Anthony Carter, Jared Jeffries, Roger Mason, and Landry Fields as his supporting cast. That was what the Knicks pay him to do.

    Today he was asked to make his money again. His supporting cast was better. He was at home.

    Superstar’s burden.

  206. johnlocke

    Definitely, not–when he’s your third option on offense you have problems. Just pointing out that if teams want to go crazy and pay him some outlandish amount so be it.

    Kikuchiyo:
    We’re really gonna kill Novak for this loss? Really?

  207. hoolahoop

    er:
    not really most of his misses were at the rim or makeable shots…i know it doesnt fit your narrative tho

    Yeah, at the rim with guys draping all over him. He did miss some open looks to, but for the most part he was driving into traffic and shooting while smothered.

  208. er

    you can say hes marbury till you are blue in the face hope it makes you feel better

    hoolahoop: You’re right, but you’re going to piss off a lot of fanboys.

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history. Against a great defensive team. With Anthony Carter, Jared Jeffries, Roger Mason, and Landry Fields as his supporting cast. That was what the Knicks pay him to do.

    Today he was asked to make his money again. His supporting cast was better. He was at home.

    Superstar’s burden.

  209. er

    sorry Z didnt mean to quote you

    er:
    you can say hes marbury till you are blue in the face hope it makes you feel better

  210. hoolahoop

    Kikuchiyo:
    We’re really gonna kill Novak for this loss? Really?

    It’s funny isn’t it. It’s like cattle. One or two people make a stupid post and everyone starts repeating it.

    How many games did Novak win for the knicks this season? Many!

  211. er

    he will be smothered because he is only one of two options to drive (jr) if he had wade on his team trust me the shots would have been easier…but with not many other offensive options he wont be getting too many open looks….lebron shot numerous contested shots and wade with that ridiculous corner 3…. good players have to take and make tough shots

    hoolahoop: Yeah, at the rim with guys draping all over him. He did miss someopen looks to, but for the most part he was driving into traffic and shooting while smothered.

  212. JR Sec 112

    was at the game tonight. Yeah, Melo didnt play well. Not the first guy who played poorly against Miami. No one on NY can create their own shot. It was always going to be an uphill battle. Without 3 of our best 5 guys, it was impossible.

    JR and Melo shot like crap but played hard. Melo got to the rim. I guess thats all you can ask. He was doubled a lot and had to go 1×1 a lot. I reiterate this is a different game with Jeremy Lin. Baron was terrible and held the ball over and over and over. He needs to go.

    It sucks, but we just move on. There is still a ton of upside on this team. The key quesiton is who coaches this team next year. I’m not sure woodson has the firepower to do it.

  213. johnlocke

    Problem is inconsistency. Had a great game 2, but had a crappy game 1. If he had played OK, we would have won game 1.
    He is just inconsistent in the post-season plain and simple. In the 8 times he’s been to the playoffs he’s shot under 40%, 4 times for the entirety of the playoffs. (33%, 33%, 36% and 37%). He’s around 46% for his career and about 41% in the playoffs…that’s a pretty big drop. Let’s compare this to another high volume shooter – Kobe Bryant – he’s had one playoffs when he shot below 40%..his rookie year (38%). In the regular season (45%) in the playoffs (45%). I know FG% is not advanced stats, etc, etc…but the three pt shooting and FT shooting don’t make up for this gap in FG%. I can’t explain it…..but I don’t like it

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history. Against a great defensive team. With Anthony Carter, Jared Jeffries, Roger Mason, and Landry Fields as his supporting cast. That was what the Knicks pay him to do.

    Today he was asked to make his money again. His supporting cast was better. He was at home.

    Superstar’s burden.

  214. er

    i agree with you …everyone is going overboard like we choked or something…that team is great on d and lebron and wade were great in the 3rd and 4th respectively when the nix ran outta gas

    JR Sec 112:
    was at the game tonight.Yeah, Melo didnt play well.Not the first guy who played poorly against Miami.No one on NY can create their own shot.It was always going to be an uphill battle.Without 3 of our best 5 guys, it was impossible.

    JR and Melo shot like crap but played hard.Melo got to the rim.I guess thats all you can ask.He was doubled a lot and had to go 1×1 a lot.I reiterate this is a different game with Jeremy Lin.Baron was terrible and held the ball over and over and over.He needs to go.

    It sucks, but we just move on.There is still a ton of upside on this team.The key quesiton is who coaches this team next year.I’m not sure woodson has the firepower to do it.

  215. jon abbey

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history. Against a great defensive team. With Anthony Carter, Jared Jeffries, Roger Mason, and Landry Fields as his supporting cast. That was what the Knicks pay him to do.

    Today he was asked to make his money again. His supporting cast was better. He was at home.

    Superstar’s burden.

    all of that is true, but going against Paul Pierce and going against LeBron and Battier is a huge huge huge difference.

    don’t get me wrong, Melo was terrible tonight, pretty inexcusable, but you can’t leave that part out.

  216. hoolahoop

    er:
    he will be smothered because he is only one of two options to drive (jr) if he had wade on his team trust me the shots would have been easier…but with not many other offensive options he wont be getting too many open looks….lebron shot numerous contested shots and wade with that ridiculous corner 3…. good players have to take and make tough shots

    I finally agree with you. Yes, Melo needs Wade to win.

  217. er

    i can explain it….he has played the Spurs,Minny,Boston,Miami,Utah in the playoffs….really good defensive teams…his problem is that he needs to play some patseys in the first round.

    johnlocke:
    Problem is inconsistency. Had a great game 2, but had a crappy game 1.If he had played OK, we would have won game 1.
    He is just inconsistent in the post-season plain and simple. In the 8 times he’s been to the playoffs he’s shot under 40%, 4 times for the entirety of the playoffs. (33%, 33%, 36% and 37%). He’s around 46% for his career and about 41% in the playoffs…that’s a pretty big drop. Let’s compare this to another high volume shooter – Kobe Bryant – he’s had one playoffs when he shot below 40%..his rookie year (38%). In the regular season (45%) in the playoffs (45%). I know FG% is not advanced stats, etc, etc…butthe three pt shooting and FT shooting don’t make up for this gap in FG%. I can’t explain it…..but I don’t like it

  218. New Guy

    Doug: Lin = ??
    Shump = ??

    OH NO YOUR PRECIOUS NARRATIVE

    You’re right. The 04 Knicks were only outscored by 45 through 3 games. This team has managed to be outscored by 60.

    In 04, Marbury pulled off A 45.2 TS%, 32.3 ast%, 4.3 rebounds, And .014 WS/48, whereas Melo would need a monster game 4 to finish w that much success.

    My apologies. The correct narrative is this is worse than 04, and Melo wasn’t good enough to be Marbury.

  219. Will the Thrill

    Lebron got to the finals with probably the worst supporting cast in the history of the NBA

    er:
    lol so does lebron so hes not in bad company

  220. JR Sec 112

    New Guy: You’re right.The 04 Knicks were only outscored by 45 through 3 games.This team has managed to be outscored by 60.

    In 04, Marbury pulled off A 45.2 TS%, 32.3 ast%, 4.3 rebounds, And .014 WS/48, whereas Melo would need a monster game 4 to finish w that much success.

    My apologies.The correct narrative is this is worse than 04, and Melo wasn’t good enough to be Marbury.

    Cmon, I know we’re down 3-0, but this analysis is a joke.

  221. johnlocke

    It’s called the playoffs for a reason. So as long as we play patseys he’ll play well? really?

    er:
    i can explain it….he has played the Spurs,Minny,Boston,Miami,Utah in the playoffs….really good defensive teams…his problem is that he needs to play some patseys in the first round.

  222. er

    i was joking calm down…im sorry continue the melo bashing

    johnlocke:
    It’s called the playoffs for a reason. So as long as we play patseys he’ll play well? really?

  223. er

    i agree with you owen…its hitting me that this crazy season is coming to an end soon

    Owen:
    I’d like to pile on but it’s too depressing…

  224. New Guy

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history.

    Not. Even. Close.

  225. JC Knickfan

    9th year in league and Melo has worst playoff winning % w/ min 50 games. He continue pad to that this coming Sunday.

  226. Owen

    New Guy: Not.Even.Close.

    In recent memory. I believe there was a guy back in the 70s named Walt something who put up 36-19 in a Finals decider, or something. My dad brings it up once or twice x 1000….While reminding me how awesome it was …

  227. nicos

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history.

    It was a great game but Clyde’s game 7 in 1970 is tops. I think you could add a few of Bernard’s games against Detroit in ’84- 44 points and 10 boards in an overtime win on the road in an elimination game in game 5 for instance.

  228. JC Knickfan

    The New York Knicks set a National Basketball Association record with their 13th consecutive postseason loss.

    Including tonight, 52 career playoff games for Carmelo Anthony and his record is 16-36.

  229. Doug

    New Guy: You’re right.The 04 Knicks were only outscored by 45 through 3 games.This team has managed to be outscored by 60.

    In 04, Marbury pulled off A 45.2 TS%, 32.3 ast%, 4.3 rebounds, And .014 WS/48, whereas Melo would need a monster game 4 to finish w that much success.

    My apologies.The correct narrative is this is worse than 04, and Melo wasn’t good enough to be Marbury.

    You precious, threadbare narrative.

    I never knew that the Marbury Knicks were missing 3/5 of their starting lineup.

  230. New Guy

    Owen: In recent memory. I believe there was a guy back in the 70s named Walt something who put up 36-19 in a Finals decider, or something. My dad brings it up once or twice x 1000….While reminding me how awesome it was …

    Melo’s game 2 vs Boston doesn’t even make Bernard’s top 5 best games in the ’84 playoffs. I can rattle off Patrick Ewing games that were better than that. It was the best game since Allan Houston’s game 6 against Indiana in ’99.

  231. er

    the reason he has so many games is because he made the playoffs every year…so that brings it down

    durant and lebron missed first two years ie …but it doesnt matter that record sux

    JC Knickfan:
    The New York Knicks set a National Basketball Association record with their 13th consecutive postseason loss.

    Including tonight, 52 career playoff games for Carmelo Anthony and his record is 16-36.

  232. nicos

    New Guy: Melo’s game 2 vs Boston doesn’t even make Bernard’s top 5 best games in the ’84 playoffs.

    And he did it with a backcourt of Trent Tucker and Rory Sparrow!

  233. New Guy

    Doug: You precious, threadbare narrative.

    I never knew that the Marbury Knicks were missing 3/5 of their starting lineup.

    Fuck the narrative. End result is the same. 3rd straight sweep coming up. He’ll be 0-8 by Sunday night.

    Missing 3/5 of the lineup? I love Shump, and I know he’s a big deal. But Melo didn’t have the other 2 when he was winning player of the month in April. He went to war tonight with the same guys he’s been going to war with the last two months, minus Shump. That’s no excuse.

  234. Ganter

    Gideon Zaga wanted to give Novak THE ENTIRE MLE and not sign Lin. What does he still think now?

  235. d-mar

    Another depressing thought: the Celtics will beat the Hawks, and although it might take 6 or 7 games, will beat either Chicago or Philly. So the eastern conference final will be between 2 teams that I hate with an intense passion, and I have no idea who I would root for.

    Just something to look forward to, Knicks fans!

  236. max fisher-cohen

    er:

    yea the celtics are pretty good at last look

    Is this what we want? To have a capped out team with no draft picks that is slightly worse than a Celtics team that lost in the second round? The Celtics even last year, once O’Neal went down, were not an elite team.

    No one is saying the Knicks are bad. The Knicks just aren’t very good either.

    er:
    the heat are very good and i think people are forgetting this…the knicks need to play damn near perfect to win and they have done anything but

    Last year, every team the Heat played in the playoffs played them closer than the Knicks have. Even Philly managed to win one game and keep several others close. The Knicks have now lost 3 straight by double digits. This Heat team is a contender, but is not anywhere near the great teams of the last two decades. Spurs and Lakers in early 2000s would have destroyed this team. Heck, IMO this years Spurs is going to dismantle Miami in the finals.

  237. er

    the heat also were never gonna have a let down against the knicks this was a hyped series unlike the sixers and also this is the second yr of the big three..finally boston and chi got destroyed by the heat

    max fisher-cohen: Is this what we want? To have a capped out team with no draft picks that is slightly worse than a Celtics team that lost in the second round? The Celtics even last year, once O’Neal went down, were not an elite team.

    No one is saying the Knicks are bad. The Knicks just aren’t very good either.

    Last year, every team the Heat played in the playoffs played them closer than the Knicks have. Even Philly managed to win one game and keep several others close. The Knicks have now lost 3 straight by double digits. This Heat team is a contender, but is not anywhere near the great teams of the last two decades. Spurs and Lakers in early 2000s would have destroyed this team. Heck, IMO this years Spurs is going to dismantle Miami in the finals.

  238. jon abbey

    max fisher-cohen:

    No one is saying the Knicks are bad. The Knicks just aren’t very good either.

    if your philosophy is “title or wasted season”, then it was pretty much time to stop paying attention when LeBron chose Miami.

    but to call NY not very good is ridiculous, they’re playing without three starters against the worst possible matchup in the East for them. again, they went 9-2 against Indiana/Boston/Atlanta/Orlando/Philly/Milwaukee under Woodson, they were certainly somewhere between the 5th and 10th best team in the league before Shumpie went down.

  239. er

    they lost 3 games in the eastern playoffs not quite sure what you are talking about

    max fisher-cohen: Is this what we want? To have a capped out team with no draft picks that is slightly worse than a Celtics team that lost in the second round? The Celtics even last year, once O’Neal went down, were not an elite team.

    No one is saying the Knicks are bad. The Knicks just aren’t very good either.

    Last year, every team the Heat played in the playoffs played them closer than the Knicks have. Even Philly managed to win one game and keep several others close. The Knicks have now lost 3 straight by double digits. This Heat team is a contender, but is not anywhere near the great teams of the last two decades. Spurs and Lakers in early 2000s would have destroyed this team. Heck, IMO this years Spurs is going to dismantle Miami in the finals.

  240. BigBlueAL

    er:
    wtf happened to mo?

    Looks like he tore the ACL in his right knee while shagging flyballs in the outfield during batting practice :-(

  241. er

    idk why people are acting like the knicks are at full strength playing bums ….the heat are great with 2 of the best players in the league in a series that has them amped up to play….i said it before also the game where melo had 42 they still lost by 8 so idk what they were really expecting

    jon abbey: if your philosophy is “title or wasted season”, then it was pretty much time to stop paying attention when LeBron chose Miami.

    but to call NY not very good is ridiculous, they’re playing without three starters against the worst possible matchup in the East for them. again, they went 9-2 against Indiana/Boston/Atlanta/Orlando/Philly/Milwaukee under Woodson, they were certainly somewhere between the 5th and 10th best team in the league before Shumpie went down.

  242. PC

    How is no one talking about how horrendous baron Davis is. Melo swung the ball on various double teams and baron held it instead of the elementary swing pass when rotations left Novak open in corner.

    Not trying to cover for Melo. He sucked too.

  243. johnlocke

    Melo: “I wouldn’t say they shut me down, I’m missing shots I normally would make, I’m not too worried about that”.

    Huh?

  244. Z

    New Guy: I can rattle off Patrick Ewing games that were better than that.

    No you can’t. Anthony’s 42, 17, and 6 with a team of Anthony Carter, Roger Mason, Sheldon Williams, Bill Walker, Jared Jeffries, and Landry Fields was an all-time great individual playoff performance. The difference between that and the ones you claim to be better is that the Knicks lost.

    The point of bringing up game 2 last year isn’t to defend Anthony. It is to show that he is capable of dominating a game on a big stage against a good team with bad teammates. He did it last year.

    Even if he played anywhere even close to that level today, this game is winnable…. I wish he would have done it, just to shut us all up, but alas, here we are…

  245. JK47

    Did anybody really expect to win this game with our starting PG, starting SG and starting PF out with injuries? This was not a winnable game. Winning this game would have been some Bad News Bears miracle shit.

  246. Owen

    “Even if he played anywhere even close to that level today, this game is winnable…. I wish he would have done it, just to shut us all up, but alas, here we are…”

      
    Indeed. I was really hoping for something epic.

    Would love to be wrong on this one…

  247. johnlocke

    Once again his problem is inconsistency. He doesn’t play as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season. That is my concern. I wasn’t expecting us to beat the Heat. I just wanted to see some consistency in playing well in a playoff environment to give me hope for the future. That hope diminished tonight. Yes, Carmelo had 42 in game 2…but in games 1, 3 and 4 he was not good. Yes, Carmelo, played well in game 2, but in games 1 and 3 this year he was really sub-par. This is concerning– I had an earlier comment showing the meaningful distinction between his regular season and playoff performances over the course of his career. Game 1 in Boston and Game 1 in Miami we had our weapons and they were not injured (except for Lin) …and it didn’t help his shot-making. He claims above that the shots he missed he normally makes…then why is he missing now? That’s what’s really disconcerting..

    Z: No you can’t. Anthony’s 42, 17, and 6 with a team of Anthony Carter, Roger Mason, Sheldon Williams, Bill Walker, Jared Jeffries, and Landry Fields was an all-time great individual playoff performance. The difference between that and the ones you claim to be better is that the Knicks lost.

    The point of bringing up game 2 last year isn’t to defend Anthony. It is to show that he is capable of dominating a game on a big stage against a good team with bad teammates. He did it last year.

    Even if he played anywhere even close to that level today, this game is winnable…. I wish he would have done it, just to shut us all up, but alas, here we are…

  248. er

    wow that might be the last we see of the great mariano rivera ….sad day in sports

    BigBlueAL: Looks like he tore the ACL in his right knee while shagging flyballs in the outfield during batting practice :-(

  249. er

    i agree with you….its tough that hes had these bad shooting games…hopefully next year that will change

    johnlocke:
    Once again his problem is inconsistency. He doesn’t play as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season. That is my concern. I wasn’t expecting us to beat the Heat. I just wanted to see some consistency in playing well in a playoff environment to give me hope for the future. That hope diminished tonight. Yes, Carmelo had 42 in game 2…but in games 1, 3 and 4 he was not good. Yes, Carmelo, played well in game 2, but in games 1 and 3 this year he was really sub-par.This is concerning– I had an earlier comment showing the meaningful distinction between his regular season and playoff performances over the course of his career. Game 1 in Boston and Game 1 in Miami we had our weapons and they were not injured (except for Lin) …and it didn’t help his shot-making. He claims above that the shots he missed he normally makes…then why is he missing now? That’s what’s really disconcerting..

  250. Bison

    er: idk why people are acting like the knicks are at full strength playing bums ….the heat are great with 2 of the best players in the league in a series that has them amped up to play….i said it before also the game where melo had 42 they still lost by 8 so idk what they were really expecting

    If Melo is going to hog the ball, he gets to hog the glory when he wins — and the harsh criticism when he loses. That’s his fate until he grows up and learns that basketball is a team sport.

  251. max fisher-cohen

    @jon abbey —

    The problem is basically the healthier Lin/Melo/STAT star are, the worse we’ve played:

    8-9 with all three (with Anthony struggling on offense in almost every game)

    9-12 with Stoudemire and Anthony and no Lin (not including last season)

    4-0 with just Lin (against New Jersey, Minnesota, Lakers, Washington)

    11-3 with just Anthony (with Anthony putting up Jordan-esque numbers)

    1-3 with just Stoudemire (against Charlotte, OKC, Miami, Houston)

    3-1 with just Lin and Stoudemire (against Toronto, Sac, New Orleans, Dallas)

    0-0 with just Lin and Anthony

    The splits are bad too:

    Anthony and Lin are both significantly worse when they share the floor: link

    When STAT and Melo are together, STAT is more or less the same player except lower usage, but Melo becomes much worse. link

    When STAT and Lin share the floor, Lin is worse but STAT is better. link

    Sample size is smallest between Lin and Melo, but 505 minutes is still equal to about 20 games.

    I’m not a “championship or die” guy. I don’t need this team to be on par with the Heat, but given that this team currently has no cap space and few upcoming picks, I would like them to be on par with teams like Memphis or the Lakers, who at least have a long shot title chance. Right now, the BEST reasonable scenario I see for this team is 50 wins and a 2nd round loss.

    The fact, too, that there’s so much waste and overlap on this team in terms of talent adds to the frustration since it makes improvement seem so close, yet, due to management, so far.

  252. hoolahoop

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history.

    I guess you just started following the knicks last season.

  253. johnlocke

    Not only that, I cant remember Amare and Melo both having a good game at the same time in a looong time, either one is good and the other is awful or they’re both bad.

    max fisher-cohen:
    @jon abbey —

    The problem is basically the healthier Lin/Melo/STAT star are, the worse we’ve played:

  254. Z

    I guess if we’re gonna lose, we may as well lose properly. Probably the worst thing for the franchise was making the finals in the strike-shortened crapshoot of 1999. It gave the FO false hope that they were on the cusp of a title. If Houston had missed that runner v the Heat, the Knicks probably would have blown it all up, traded Ewing and Sprewell for picks, not resigned Houston, and would, possibly, have LeBron right now. (actually, knowing the Knicks, with the 1st pick in the ’03 draft they probably would have taken Anthony, and here we’d be, all the same…)

  255. hoolahoop

    Ganter:
    Gideon Zaga wanted to give Novak THE ENTIRE MLE and not sign Lin. What does he still think now?

    Generally speaking, I’d rather pay Novak than Lin. But then, who will be the PG? and who will sell all the jerseys for Dolan?

  256. hoolahoop

    d-mar:
    Another depressing thought: the Celtics will beat the Hawks, and although it might take 6 or 7 games, will beat either Chicago or Philly. So the eastern conference final will be between 2 teams that I hate with an intense passion, and I have no idea who I would root for.

    Just something to look forward to, Knicks fans!

    I agree, that’s a tough one. The two teams I hate the most.

  257. BigBlueAL

    Z: No you can’t. Anthony’s 42, 17, and 6 with a team of Anthony Carter, Roger Mason, Sheldon Williams, Bill Walker, Jared Jeffries, and Landry Fields was an all-time great individual playoff performance. The difference between that and the ones you claim to be better is that the Knicks lost.

    The point of bringing up game 2 last year isn’t to defend Anthony. It is to show that he is capable of dominating a game on a big stage against a good team with bad teammates. He did it last year.

    Even if he played anywhere even close to that level today, this game is winnable…. I wish he would have done it, just to shut us all up, but alas, here we are…

    I luv ya Z, but you are way off here. Ewing had some games in the early 90′s vs the Celtics/Pistons/Bulls that were epic and came in wins (not to mention his Game 7 vs Indiana in 1994 although his shooting numbers werent great).

    Melo’s performance in Game 2 last year was remarkable and I understand the context you are putting it in but still cant compare to games from Clyde in the title winning years, King in 1984 or my favorites (since its what I saw live lol) from Ewing.

  258. max fisher-cohen

    hoolahoop: Generally speaking, I’d rather pay Novak than Lin. But then, who will be the PG? and who will sell all the jerseys for Dolan?

    If Dolan wants to sell a lot of jerseys, he can just put “Dolan Sucks” on the back of a Knicks jersey. I think it’d give Lin jerseys a run for their money.

  259. Brian Cronin

    When STAT and Melo are together, STAT is more or less the same player except lower usage, but Melo becomes much worse. link

    As I mentioned a couple of days ago, the usage thing is pretty big. Shooting the same percentage while taking 3 more shots per 36 minutes is big. So I think STAT is being negatively affected by sharing the court with Melo, just not as much as Melo is being affected by sharing the court with STAT.

    As we’ve both said a bunch of times, the Knicks have three players who each work best when they are “the man.” When you only have one ball, that is not going work (I’d imagine Lin would be the easiest to gel with the other two, but STAT and Melo just are not a good pair).

  260. nicos

    I think Melo and Lin can get it figured out. I also think Lin will be fine with Amar’e once they get used to each other on the pnr- Amar’e plays it much differently than Chandler and I don’t think he and Lin ever really got on the same page. Can all three be successful on the floor at the same time? I’m not sure the spacing would ever be great for Lin who really likes to make a bee-line to the hoop. I’m sure he’ll work on his spot-up shooting over the summer but I still think you’ll lose something. That said, if Lin can get both Amar’e and Melo going at the same time then losing his scoring really doesn’t hurt you that much. They played their best basketball of the season together under Woodson though Melo still struggled offensively and some of Amar’e's success was with Davis and Fields running the pnr rather than Lin.

  261. hoolahoop

    max fisher-cohen: If Dolan wants to sell a lot of jerseys, he can just put “Dolan Sucks” on the back of a Knicks jersey. I think it’d give Lin jerseys a run for their money.

    lol. That’s great!

  262. BigBlueAL

    Its not that big a deal who is the PG next season anyway since you dont need a good PG to play the Triangle Offense :-)

  263. Brian Cronin

    I think Melo and Lin can get it figured out. I also think Lin will be fine with Amar’e once they get used to each other on the pnr- Amar’e plays it much differently than Chandler and I don’t think he and Lin ever really got on the same page. Can all three be successful on the floor at the same time? I’m not sure the spacing would ever be great for Lin who really likes to make a bee-line to the hoop. I’m sure he’ll work on his spot-up shooting over the summer but I still think you’ll lose something. That said, if Lin can get both Amar’e and Melo going at the same time then losing his scoring really doesn’t hurt you that much. They played their best basketball of the season together under Woodson though Melo still struggled offensively and some of Amar’e’s success was with Davis and Fields running the pnr rather than Lin.

    Agreed, I can see Lin working with either Melo or STAT. I just don’t see Melo and STAT ever really working. They just overlap too much. Melo is definitely the better of the two because he can at least play defense, but he is also the only one of the two who you could actually trade for something good. Not that Melo will be traded, as he won’t (for a couple of years, at least).

  264. max fisher-cohen

    nicos:
    I think Melo and Lin can get it figured out. I also think Lin will be fine with Amar’e once they get used to each other on the pnr- Amar’e plays it much differently than Chandler and I don’t think he and Lin ever really got on the same page.Can all three be successful on the floor at the same time?I’m not sure the spacing would ever be great for Lin who really likes to make a bee-line to the hoop.I’m sure he’ll work on his spot-up shooting over the summer but I still think you’ll lose something.That said, if Lin can get both Amar’e and Melo going at the same time then losing his scoring really doesn’t hurt you that much.They played their best basketball of the season together under Woodson though Melo still struggled offensively and some of Amar’e’s success was with Davis and Fields running the pnr rather than Lin.

    If you look at those early games under Woodson though, the reason we were dominant was because we essentially put up all NBA #s in terms of opp. FG%, offensive and defensive rebounding, and forced turnovers. The offense came from fast breaks and put backs more than any sort of great execution. I just don’t think we have the roster to win that way across an entire season.

  265. johnlocke

    yeh…Woody may have play-called himself out of a job

    BigBlueAL:
    Its not that big a deal who is the PG next season anyway since you dont need a good PG to play the Triangle Offense :-)

  266. max fisher-cohen

    Brian Cronin: Agreed, I can see Lin working with either Melo or STAT. I just don’t see Melo and STAT ever really working. They just overlap too much. Melo is definitely the better of the two because he can at least play defense, but he is also the only one of the two who you could actually trade for something good. Not that Melo will be traded, as he won’t (for a couple of years, at least).

    Agreed. It’s incredibly frustrating. I feel like the ideal situation for the Knicks is Melo getting hurt and missing the first 2 months of the season, allowing Stoudemire to show that he still has game. Then, when Melo returns and the issues arise again, the front office will have the hard evidence that it’s the pairing that’s the problem, not that Amar’e is suddenly terrible, and other front offices will see that STAT still has value if it’s Amar’e we choose to trade.

  267. Brian Cronin

    In the 1990 playoffs, Ewing put up the following two games, one against Boston and one against Detroit:

    Against Boston: 44 points on 18-24 shooting, 8-9 from the charity stripe, 13 rebounds (2 offensive), 7 steals (WTF?), 2 blocks and 5 assists.

    Against Detroit (the #2 defense in the league that year): 45 points on 14-24 shooting, 17-18 from the line, 13 rebounds (3 offensive), 3 blocks and 6 assists.

  268. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    In the 1990 playoffs, Ewing put up the following two games, one against Boston and one against Detroit:

    Against Boston: 44 points on 18-24 shooting, 8-9 from the charity stripe, 13 rebounds (2 offensive), 7 steals (WTF?), 2 blocks and 5 assists.

    Against Detroit (the #2 defense in the league that year): 45 points on 14-24 shooting, 17-18 from the line, 13 rebounds (3 offensive), 3 blocks and 6 assists.

    His Game 5 in Boston that season not too bad either: 31 pts on14 for 26 shooting which included his famous dagger 3pter from the corner late in the game (only 2 of 2 from ft line), 8 rebs, 10 asts(!!) and 4 blks.

    My favorite was Game 1 in 1992 at Chicago: 34 points on 14 for 25 shooting, 6 of 7 from FT line, 16 rebs, 5 asts, 6 blks.

    Game 7 vs Indiana in 1994 was a great stat line minus the shooting (10 for 23, 4 of 6 ft) 24 pts, 22 rebs (11 offensive), 7 asts and 5 blks. Of course the fact is happened in Game 7 of the Conference Finals makes it extra significant.

  269. nicos

    max fisher-cohen: If you look at those early games under Woodson though, the reason we were dominant was because we essentially put up all NBA #s in terms of opp. FG%, offensive and defensive rebounding, and forced turnovers. The offense came from fast breaks and put backs more than any sort of great execution. I just don’t think we have the roster to win that way across an entire season.

    Lin’s TS% during that stretch was .590, Amar’e's was .622 (and he wasn’t scoring in transition). Lin didn’t shoot well but got to the line a ton esp. late in games in the halfcourt against the 76ers and Indy. I agree that the defense was key- and Melo was great during that stretch but Lin and Amar’e were certainly able to co-exist during that brief window.

  270. Z

    BigBlueAL: I luv ya Z, but you are way off here.Ewing had some games in the early 90?s vs the Celtics/Pistons/Bulls that were epic and came in wins (not to mention his Game 7 vs Indiana in 1994 although his shooting numbers werent great).

    Okay, yes. 1990, the year I was shipped off to boarding school, Ewing did put up a few moster games. I just looked them up. Thank you for pointing them out. But it’s not “way off” to say that Melo’s game 2 performance in 2011 is one of the best playoff performances.

    Ewing, game 4 v Boston: 44pts, 13 rebs, 7 stls, 5 assists, 2 blks, 145 Ortg, with a 32 usage%.

    Ewing, game 3 v Detroit: 45 pts, 13 rebs, 6 assists, 3 blks, 153 Ortg, with a 35 usage%.

    Anthony, game 2 v Boston: 42pts, 17 rebs, 6 assists, 2 blks, 146 Ortg, with a 34.5 usage%.

    Ewing’s games were sick. Completely awesome. But imagine if he’d done them with Brian Quinnett, Stuart Grey, Eddie Lee Wilkins, Greg Butler, and Pete Myers as his only teammates… that’s basically what Anthony did in that game in Boston :)

  271. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    Hey Al, any ideas for a song for Robertson?

    I think Soriano will close, let Robertson pitch the 8th and at times end of 7th like he has been doing. More valuable that way. Might make sense to move Hughes back to the pen now too.

    Still just so sad about Mo. Did you see his interview after the game?? Made me tear up too which I havent done since watching Ewing’s jersey retirement ceremony lol

  272. BigBlueAL

    Z: Okay, yes. 1990, the year I was shipped off to boarding school, Ewing did put up a few moster games. I just looked them up. Thank you for pointing them out. But it’s not “way off” to say that Melo’s game 2 performance in 2011 is one of the best playoff performances.

    Ewing, game 4 v Boston: 44pts, 13 rebs, 7 stls, 5 assists, 2 blks, 145 Ortg, with a 32 usage%.

    Ewing, game 3 v Detroit: 45 pts, 13 rebs, 6 assists, 3 blks, 153 Ortg, with a 35 usage%.

    Anthony, game 2 v Boston: 42pts, 17 rebs, 6 assists, 2 blks, 146 Ortg, with a 34.5 usage%.

    Ewing’s games were sick. Completely awesome. But imagine if he’d done them with Brian Quinnett, Stuart Grey, Eddie Lee Wilkins, Greg Butler, and Pete Myers as his only teammates… that’s basically what Anthony did in that game in Boston :)

    Kenny Walker did play in those games though lol

  273. nicos

    Also, last year Melo and Amar’e were fine together offensively- Melo with a .575% TS, Amar’e took a hit, falling from .570 to .553 but some of that was due to Billups having absolutely no interest in running the pnr. They were horrible defensively but the Knicks had no problems on that end of the floor this year. The bigger issue as others have pointed out is adding Chandler to the mix- I think Amar’e was okay even with Chandler on the floor once he became the primary roll guy and obviously Melo played great with Chandler at the end of the season but I’m not sure the three of them make for a synergistic trio.

  274. bobneptune

    Z: Last year Carmelo played probably the best single playoff game in Knicks history.

    i guess you never saw walt frazier play a game 7 vs jerry west heads up :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik3DxXZOds

    36 points, 19 (that’s right 19) assists, 7 rebounds and 5 steals including a crushing theft of jerry west that sealed the game.

    all this in a game 7 of the finals!

  275. jon abbey

    you know what, Melo put up huge numbers in that game 2 last year, but even in that game, he didn’t score in the last 2:36 and we got outscored 8-2 to end the game, and when Boston had the ball up by 1 with 4 seconds to go and were inbounding from half-court, it was like he temporarily forgot the rule that a team could inbound to the backcourt, and Boston ran out almost the entire four seconds before Melo managed to foul Delonte West.

    so, yeah, big numbers, but in the end failure.

    also, he sucked in game 1 of that series when Amare could have desperately used some help.

  276. 2FOR18

    Doug: You precious, threadbare narrative.

    I never knew that the Marbury Knicks were missing 3/5 of their starting lineup.

    You seem like a great guy but come on man. They are missin a rookie and a d leagher and they have been humuliated. Be real doug

  277. jon abbey

    what Melo really is is what Brian C has been saying all along and what Owen said again recently, the third best player on a genuine title contender. if NY could somehow add someone like Chris Paul to Chandler and Melo, they’d be in the mix.

  278. jon abbey

    2FOR18: You seem like a great guy but come on man.They are missin a rookie and a d leagher and they have been humuliated.Be real doug

    calling Lin a D-Leaguer is like calling you an infant. both were applicable at one point in your lives, neither make much sense now.

  279. 2FOR18

    hoolahoop: Generally speaking, I’d rather pay Novak than Lin. But then, who will be the PG? and who will sell all the jerseys for Dolan?

    Yo that is way dumber than anything I’ve ever said.

  280. 2FOR18

    Brian Cronin:
    In the 1990 playoffs, Ewing put up the following two games, one against Boston and one against Detroit:

    Against Boston: 44 points on 18-24 shooting, 8-9 from the charity stripe, 13 rebounds (2 offensive), 7 steals (WTF?), 2 blocks and 5 assists.

    Against Detroit (the #2 defense in the league that year): 45 points on 14-24 shooting, 17-18 from the line, 13 rebounds (3 offensive), 3 blocks and 6 assists.

    Holy shit. Admittedly I gave him a lot of shit, but man that’s a real superstar performance

  281. 2FOR18

    BigBlueAL: I think Soriano will close, let Robertson pitch the 8th and at times end of 7th like he has been doing.More valuable that way.Might make sense to move Hughes back to the pen now too.

    Still just so sad about Mo.Did you see his interview after the game??Made me tear up too which I havent done since watching Ewing’s jersey retirement ceremony lol

    Robertson will close. Sad to see the end of an era

  282. 2FOR18

    bobneptune: i guess you never saw walt frazier play a game 7 vs jerry west heads up :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik3DxXZOds

    36 points, 19 (that’s right 19) assists, 7 rebounds and 5 steals including a crushing theft of jerry west that sealed the game.

    all this in a game 7 of the finals!

    Fuking shit. Does it ever end for a Knicks fan? Awsome clip

  283. 2FOR18

    nicos: And he did it with a backcourt of Trent Tucker and Rory Sparrow!

    Trent Tucker! He could get it off in .002 seconds

  284. 2FOR18

    max fisher-cohen: Is this what we want? To have a capped out team with no draft picks that is slightly worse than a Celtics team that lost in the second round? The Celtics even last year, once O’Neal went down, were not an elite team.

    No one is saying the Knicks are bad. The Knicks just aren’t very good either.

    Last year, every team the Heat played in the playoffs played them closer than the Knicks have. Even Philly managed to win one game and keep several others close. The Knicks have now lost 3 straight by double digits. This Heat team is a contender, but is not anywhere near the great teams of the last two decades. Spurs and Lakers in early 2000s would have destroyed this team. Heck, IMO this years Spurs is going to dismantle Miami in the finals.

    Bingo

  285. 2FOR18

    hoolahoop: Generally speaking, I’d rather pay Novak than Lin. But then, who will be the PG? and who will sell all the jerseys for Dolan?

    Wow you critcized me nad you say this? You;re dumber than me if u thing novak is better than lin

  286. Brian Cronin

    what Melo really is is what Brian C has been saying all along and what Owen said again recently, the third best player on a genuine title contender. if NY could somehow add someone like Chris Paul to Chandler and Melo, they’d be in the mix.

    I’d say that my position all along has been that I did not like the trade, but not because of anything to do with Melo himself, as he’s a very good player, but rather the construction of the team. For instance, if the Knicks had Melo and Chandler and $20 million to spend on a free agent, I’d be thrilled. It’s that the team already had STAT on it, and I just don’t think the two go well together, or at least not well enough that I’d want to commit $40 million to them (unless, of course, as I repeated many times, that getting Melo meant that Paul would take a pay cut to come to New York to form a new Big Three with Melo and STAT. Then $40 million would be cheap for the two. That, though, did not happen). It’s nothing against Melo as a player in and of himself.

Comments are closed.