2012 Playoff Thread: Game Five, Knicks v. Heat
May 9th, 2012 by Brian Cronin | Comments | Permalink |
The comeback has to continue tonight.
Let’s go Knicks!
- 10:40 am - johnno on Some Thoughts on J.R. Smith
- 10:38 am - DRed on Some Thoughts on J.R. Smith
- 10:32 am - thenamestsam on Some Thoughts on J.R. Smith
- 10:31 am - flossy on Viewing a season through the lens of an albatross
- 10:25 am - flossy on Viewing a season through the lens of an albatross
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Fire Dolan! Shump, shump!
Fire the Knicks’ team training staff!
BIBBY BIBBY
Pumped up. My wife actually tried to get me to miss the game and meet up with her co workers. I let out a loud shump shump and squashed that idea.
All the pundits are expecting a heat blowout. We shall see. I am cautiously optimistic.
I am pessimistic…but would love to be proven wrong. Feel like we’re walking into a buzzsaw
I have a feeling like JR Smith is going to erupt tonight.
But will the eruption result in efficient scoring.
Melo with a j in rhythm.
No look from bibby, nice.
Sweet feed from Bibby to Landry!
The refs are not screwing the Knicks to start!
Hohoho Tyson taking off, sorta, from the free throw line.
Fields has been playing some strong defense these last two games.
A T on Fields? Seriously, refs? What’d he do, not say please?
Landry disagrees
Bibby lives!
What defense from the Knicks to start!
Ball movement.
So simple, yet so right.
Mum ra’ for 3!
We are looking good on both ends today!!! Just waiting for the huge Miami run though. I will be so happy if it doesn’t.
Watching Bibby so far reminds me that he was once one of the best, and for key stretches of playoff games the best, players on some exceptional Kings teams.
The sarcophagus is open. Bibby lives!
“One of the best” is a bit misleading, no? As he was clearly behind the top guys. But yeah, he used to be an effective player. He’s had enough rest, so hopefully he keeps it up!
Bibby playing like he’s been in the Lazarus pool.
Big three there by Melo!
Why does Reggie miller have to call every national Knicks game? Or so it seems.
MIKE FREAKIN BIBBY
What a recovery by the Knicks!
Stupid Miller.
True. I guess I remember a Lamer game where he seemed to be the only guy who wasn’t passing up orvmissing
Bibby is not foolin’ with y’all tonight.
I love that we are getting into our stuff early.
It’s alive. Alive.
Right?
Tough call there on Bibby (accurate call, but still).
Trouble melo with 2 quick fouls.
JR lol dumb
Dammit.
Stooopid pass by JR Smith leads to a 2nd foul on Melo.
Is that Mike Bibby or Allan Houston??
Ugh, that was a double-whammy. Dumb pass by JR and a second foul on Melo.
This is where Miami goes on a run usually.
LeBron on pace for 40 free throws
Should say Laker and as the Kings lead faded. Anyway back to the present.
Feel like the Knicks have played great this quarter…and they are tied with 3 mins left and Melo has 2 fouls. Not good at all.
NY has–to this point–kept the crowd out of it.
True, Peja always seemed to come up short against the Lakers. I mean, he was playing hurt in 2002, but still, 3 for 12 in the clinching game is rough.
Agreed. That has been nice.
Those are brutal possessions when you play great D for 23 seconds.
The bad ref calls are coming in now.
If we see bad JR tonight we have no chance
Terrible shot by Smith.
Glad it went in.
JR”
Gotta clean up the defensive boards.
Toney! In for the clutch shots.
uh-oh. Douglas alert.
Come on Toney.
We don’t need you to do something great.
Just DWTDD.
I love the timeout here.
LeBron and Wade didnt make a fg in the 1st quarter yet the Heat still scored 28 pts.
Lol bibby apparently literally growled at wade. “BRAAAAAIIIINS”
Only down 4, not too bad!
Speaking of bad shots: Lebron takes a fall back one footed open three with a few seconds left on the clock.
With Amare Stoudemire guarding LOL
We really need our guards to stay in on the defensive boards. We gotta make the Heat role players make their first look. We can’t give them second helpings.
Yeah, I’d rather see them scoring and NOT see Battier and Miller hitting open 3″s, much more deflating.
JJ splash
I don’t know how to feel, otoh they look good, otoh they are down.
8 free throws in 12 minutes for LeBron. God dammit, NBA.
Fuck Mike Miller
Landry going all ISO for two.
They really need Fields to keep up this aggression.
Well, he eventually had to hit something.
Where was the foul on Jeffries?
At least Toney isn’t ruining everything yet.
I love when Bosh screams after an “and one” layup like he threw it down in someone’s face
Where is Novak?
Need to withstand this run
Our offense totally sucks now. Is this TD’s fault?
Ask and ye shall receive
Absolutely no movement, looking like iso-Joe
Knicks are gettin killed on the boards
Offensive rebounds are killing us… And amare needs to start hitting those lil runners. TD looking alive though…
Why are guys watching the ball when MIN shoots?
If this is JR’s last game as a Knick I dont think I will be too upset.
How did Melo not finish that? 4 point swing
Knicks look a step slow tonight.
He was too far out. He should have kicked it out. (I don’t know where the shot clock was.)
Battier fouling him from the floor and LeBron jumping into him up top mightve had something to do with that.
On several plays already, JR has dribble dribbled and then handed it to another player to chuck it up in last remaining seconds. The offense looks lost.
All sorts of wows: TD scores, Knicks get back to stymie a long outlet, Novak makes a defensive play and then the bubble bursts. Melo gets mailed but it goes uncalled and Wade is alone under the basket.
did novak just stuff bosh?!? and zombie is our leading scorer?!
This is getting ugly in a hurry
Doesnt look like Melo has another Game 4 in him. This series looks over :-(
What is our offense doing?? Did we have a game plan before the game?
Nice aggression from Melo.
Jesus JR look up, TD was wide open for a 3pter. I knows its TD but still lol
did jr smith just openily criticize amare for his lack of helop d on that last lebron drive? if so, well deserved criticism
“putting thier will on the shoulders of the Knicks” i just want Reggie to stfu, if thats not too much to ask.
JR is handling the ball way too much.
How was that NOT an And1 for STAT?
Amar’e!!!! Series aint over yet!! lol
chucky douglas has played surprisingly competently
Man’s move by STAT!
no foul on Amar’e but yes call one for Wade with less contact.
They are totally still in this thing!!
STAT is in the building!! And shuda been an and1 without question. Were hanging in there guys, novak hasnt even gotten good looks yet and melo n stat arent exactly hot yet but showing signs… P.s do you guys think Bibby came alive cos dwayne (quite accurately) took a shot at him for never hitting a shot last year with the heat?
Yup. Dunno if they can keep this up in the 2nd half but they at least arent going down w/o a fight tonight.
Crap foul call on STAT, but we have to expect that in Miami
Exactly. Gotta close.
clsoing the half has to be huge here. cant go down 12 before the half. try to even it up
Melo getting his stroke back.
Another open Heat 3pter.
Gotta keep it 6 or under by halftime
Really was a great find.
Tooooooough call there on JR.
Can’t be having many more of these possessions where Melo gets it with five seconds and has to dump it to Amare near the arc.
I dont think I want JR back because Woodson seriously is in love with him.
JR Smith has been at the center of mostly everything bad for us tonight.
Never mind
Hehe, this closing to the quarter looks familiar.
d wade gets every call. its sickening
Knicks D has been lit up every game in Miami.
By the way, hasn’t it been said in virtually each game besides game 1, that it seems like it’s a 14 point game but it’s only a 6 point game? Of course NOW it’s really looking more like a 14 point game..
That block on JR was an awful call. He was clearly set.
Mostly on FTs and 2nd chance points.
I’m not going to miss JR. He gives and takes
The dreaded fizzle to end a quarter.
should have been a not call. d wade thrusted himself to the floor (my shocked face)
Yes
It’s kind of psycho…he’ll tolerate anything from him. Sop sucking up woody…hes not going to stay for less money. Let’s see more Fields…he doesn’t help much but he doesn’t kill us either. Who dribbled? JR who fouled? JR….who shot? Too obvious
Fact is Heat scored 100 and 104 in Games 1 & 2. In NY they scored 87 twice. Tonight they have 54 at half-time already. Doesnt matter what the reasons are the fact is the Knicks D hasnt played well in Miami this series.
Of course the Heat have something to do with that.
Woodson should stop his bromance with JR Smith. This guy is killing us
and what about Amare???
Would, say, Ray Allen play well if asked to initiate the offense? Not sure if people understand that the Knicks are playing one of the best ball pressure teams post hand check era without a point guard…..Lin makes a huge difference for so many reasons
Fire Dolan!!!!!!
Shump Shump
Look I understand we are shorthanded and JR is the best guard on the team right now by far but shit its still frustrating to watch lol
mark my words the knicks will pull this off even if they are tired because they are the better team
Heat have 9 offensive rebounds and are shooting 50% from downtown. Not a recipe for Knicks success.
okaaaaaay
Dribbling 12 times to go nowhere is not helpful….that’s classic Tony Douglas playmaking. Either penetrate or take a couple dribbles and move the ball. He should do less, not more
The reasons always matter BBA. Tonight is about attention to detail. Miami isn’t a good offensive rebounding team. Take away half of the 2nd chance baskets and we’re down maybe five or six instead of double digits. That’s not even extra effort. It’s focus.
That’s the fixable thing in basketball.
Haha! Love it
I think Allen ran some point with Milwaukee but if he did that was years and years ago.
I think it has alot to do with the Heat’s aggressiveness playing at home compared to on the road. Plus the wakeup call they got after losing Game 4 hasnt helped either.
Just frustrating because it felt like the Knicks played a very good 1st half but they trail by 11. Pretty disheartening.
The offensive rebounds are creating open looks. Wade running out in transition constantly. Let’s see some long 2s from Lebron. Wade has made some ridiculous well defended shots but yeh too many transition buckets and off rebounds. Need to run back on defense to stop wades cherry picking also
They better pull this out to keep my winning streak going.
And JR starts and bricks…love unbounded
you know i named it that we would go all the way against the heat. and we will be the heat. i trust our fans and our knicks cya after the game
Yes, starting JR is EXACTLY what we need, thanks reggie
JR starting 2nd half for Fields. Wonder if Woodson gave him a blow job during half-time too.
I’m ok w Woodson losing his job if he let’s JR Smith take down the ship.
?
It’s such a weird relationship. I mean, this is like the exact opposite relationship Smith had with George Karl. But has it even helped his game to coddle him like this?
Funny thing is JR was only 2 for 4 at half-time with 2 to’s. Of course he did have the worst +/- on the team.
They haven’t lost a game that I did the game thread since…well, I don’t remember exactly, but it was pre-Linsanity!
JR 0 for 4 to start the 2nd half. Brilliant stuff.
Oh ok
One positive is the Knicks are drawing a lot of fouls early. Whether they capitalize is another story.
“It’s almost like they don’t want to embarrass the Knicks.”
Can something terrible happen to Reggie Miller? Like, can his eyeballs shrivel up like prunes or something? Please?
Ugh, looked like Bosh fouled Melo on that Wade block.
how that is not a foul on bosh but then they determine lebron (who was setting a moving pick) was fouled is beyond me
Dammit that sucked Melo had an open baseline but Bosh ease back there playing free safety.
I’m sorry but JR just got tossed to the floor and no foul called!!!
Amare forgot how to play defense again
Bibby earning a contract for next season?? Obviously would be another 1 yr minimum deal but I think he might deserve it.
Amare has 5 lol why in the world was he still in?
amare is sooo useless. maybe jorts will lead the comeback
Are we really gonna miss JR next year?
Amare left his defense and brain in nyc
I don’t know how this game isn’t over, but it’s not!!!
Am I wrong for thinking Amar’e is the dumbest basketball player I’ve ever seen?
Amare left his defense and brain in nyc…Jorts may be upgrade right now
the heat are doing nothing to win this game. if we ever were able to get hot we would be right back in this
AND JORTS COMES TO HAS COME TO DELIVER US!!!
p.s. Spoelstra needs to sit down and stfu. The amount of pushes his bigs have gotten away with and now he’s trying to make claims that dont exist.
On defense yes, no defensive instincts…
Jorts with the quick impact, nice to see.
I don’t know why but I can’t stand spoelstra comes across as a cocky know it all.
No way. There has to be a better guy out there for the vet minimum. The Knicks do have a second-round pick to play with.
He seems to be worse, and with more minutes.
JR now 2 for 10, believe he is 0 for 6 in 2nd half.
Amare no defensive instinct Chandler no offensive instinct
This is the most isolation I have ever seen. It sucks on so many levels.
Melo now 1 for 5 in 3rd quarter after missing that WIDE OPEN 3pter. Game getting out of hand now.
Well this is starting to suck.
When is Chandler planning to show up?
Sort of agree, but we have so little offensive firepower out there, it comes down to Melo and JR creating their own shots. Not sure what the alternative is.
Out of hand and Miami hasn’t really played that well…..sad end. At least we won one game in the playoffs. Won’t miss JR when he bolts. Too many headaches for the moments of euphoria. What has happened with Novak this series is sad…feels like when Lin played Miami…just hurts
Knicks seem flat, but, of course, they’re playing third string at point, third string at PF, and second string and third at the deuce.
Fuck Miami, and the announcers, who clearly want a few more field trips to Miami.
lebron was shot!!!! no wait, he just took a deflected ball to the face and fell like he was shot
Chandler is not playing well
It is annoying seeing the Heat getting all the ticky tack calls.
Best pass Fields has made in the playoffs, right in LeBron’s face
Quiet as it’s kept, Bosh has really outclassed Chandler in this series–even after game one.
I hope Reggie Miller is drawn and quartered.
If JR opts out, is he guaranteed to get a mid-level offer from another team??
Well, maybe this lowers JR’s value enough that’d he pick up his option?
Well it’s been fun, see you next season
Yeah but even with Amare out there, it was the exact same thing. Maybe it’s just the Miami defense but is it really outlandish to say that our role players can be a partially involved in our offense? There are a lot of teams without much “firepower” and seem to make it work. But with isolations, you HAVE to rely on “firepower”
This is painful to watch.
Have to see what happens with J.R.. it’s been two years since he had a decent season.
What the fuck? Can we have one offensive set? I’m really tired of give it to Melo or JR and have them jack it up. Move the damn ball!!
Yes. Two and half million won’t get it done. I, for one, will miss him and the myriad butt cheeks he posts on twitter.
Ha! We were thinking the same thing, Al. I think he still gets a MLE easily.
They were in the penalty fast. The alternative was to drive to the hoop.
Oh I’m def gonna keep following him lol
Damn. Just when Melo hits the 3 he fouls on the 3… FML. Looking at STAT on the bench makes me want to punch him in the face. He has literally done everything possible to take himself out of this series. Asshole.
Knicks were crawling back into this game then Melo fouls Battier there. Sigh.
I know this game is over, but it’s not quite over.
ok, it looked like it was going to get to 30 quick, but its down to 14. how we catch up, i have no idea, but we havent given up at least
Charlotte new Orleans or some other horrible low salary cap team will throw a lot of money at him
WOW, what a shot to end the quarter by Melo. Its shots like that which makes him believe he can make any shot he takes which leads to his lack of a conscience lol
Come on guys miracle Knicks you gotta believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Down 14 its certainly possible but it sure doesn’t feel that way.
I really wish we had Billy Walker right now to jack up threes. Bank!
Yeah, I hear you, but it really starts with having a PG who can break down the defense now and then. Bibby is doing the best he can, but he couldn’t get by a pylon
The heat aren’t the grizzlies…it’s over. Sorry to say. Only way we would have won would be by having the lead going into the 4th
Lol. :-)
jr smith has to be able to kill mike miller for us to come back
Does anyone shoot more long 2s than JR?
How did Chandler not get that rebound?
Chandler doesn’t look like himself at all tonight
God,
please smite Mario Chalmers down. #justice
OK, it’s f-ing over.
how annoying is sorry ars mario chalmers posing??
He’s been awful this series
Another idiotic Breen comment – Novak can’t get any shots because of the lack of ball movement. Yeah, if we’d just give it him on the perimeter with a man in his face, all would be right with the world.
what in the hell is amare doing??? can he do anything right?
Amare is going to be scrapped and traded for parts next season, book it.
Dunk it Amar’e, no, throw it away trying to pass it to Chandler next to you. SMH.
Jesus. Melo misses a wide open shot and then Tyson misses a wide open rebound. Then Chalmers hits a 3. We’re only coming back in this game if we start pounding the ball into the paing and getting fouls and1′s only way to slow the game down while scoring.
As I type Amare makes a HORRIBLE pass attempt leading to another heat foul. great.
Bad Pass by Stat..but Chandler is sleepwalking on offense. Make yourself available for a pass dude
LOL only the Knicks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Melo with 26 FGA and only 2 FTA.
Chandler, get a fucking rebound, my god.
i hate fields soooo much. i dont ever want to see him on the knicks again. its too frustrating
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!! JBSIVKBIJKEBDKJNKBFGVSH!BW)($!(Y(&$(BI# R D@!IV #(*@Y#(REG!V EI!)
Great open court passing by Landry
Melo with 2 fta lmao
Landry Fields, Killer of the Fast Break
Did Landry just pass the ball off his own knee. He seems to undo anything he does well within seconds.
This.
Our collective ineptitude outside of Melo is embarrassing right now. You’re an NBA player that can’t execute a 3 on 2 fast break?
They’re playing like they expect to lose
Its ridiculous because while he has taken alot of jumpers every time he has drove there has been contact and he has only gotten 1 trip to the FT line.
the heat have done everything they could to give us this game and we have no talent to grab it. bibby and chucky davis werent even the problem either
That usually happens when you’re not involved in the offense, standing around for a long time and you’ll get bored.
I’ll be rooting for the pacers….really can’t stand he heat
Stoudemire, the one-handed Power Forward. He’s the modern Jim Abbott.
STAT WTF ARE YOU DOING??? How can this dude be so unaware of his surroundings? THis isnt a new issue either, his turnovers always boil down to him not being aware that someone is trying to take the ball off him. Which is generally what nba players do on defense. Then again considering how he doesnt understand what D is its starting to make sense…
Nobody on the Knicks can pass the ball w/o it getting deflected.
take fields out now!!!!! great job by jr at least sending wade on his ars
Breen is a fucking moron
Did you see the way Melo looked at Fields when Fields over-dribbled and didn’t pass him the ball? Fields will be traded – book it.
I’m glad JR broke up that alley-oop.
Shooting is horrible
Helps when you don’t telegraph each pass.
Our offense has been laughable. Where are the cuts and pick and rolls like in game 4 it’s been iso Melo or jack up a shot JR the entire game. No offensive ingenuity….none
Reggie Miller, sit on a thumb tack.
Also – how much of a difference does a healthy Shump have in this series? At least another game right?
How the F*** did we end up playing the one good team in the East? We could have beaten any of the other 6 playoff teams in a 7 game series easy.
Chandler should be on the bench by now. Bring in Jorts.
Right……if you can’t penetrate can’t make pay for overplay
Amar’e sure spends a lot of time thinking about his hair. Looks like he went from braids to frayed fro for this game.
im so sick of everyone talking about amare and melo “coexisting”. maybe, just maybe, amare is not playing well with melo because hes really not that good. hes succeeded in one system and only one system (and on only one end of the court), so Im not putting his recent failures on melo at all
Three guards with blown knees…WHAT THE FUCK!
This is frustrating
Wait you forget the great play of pg Fields.
Whatever the opposite of “rising to the occasion” is, that’s what Landry Fields does in the playoffs
Because we fucked around and blew a big lead vs. Indy and lost the Cleveland down the stretch. Those losses cost us the 6th seed.
Good grief, Fields caught whatever _________ has.
Eariler in the TNT broadcast they said something like Melo had 9 layups in game 4, most this season. That really opened up shooting spaces for the other teammates. I believe tonight he didn’t have any layup, only jumpers.
Melo’s getting fouled a lot with no calls whatsoever.
Its a miracle, LeBron got a technical foul!!
When the more talented team lugworms you…you are fucked
my prediction both fields and lin are leaving next year. there are two conflicting teams in new york and the hero/iso team is always going to win out over the movement team because of the three big contracts. we’ve learned that melo definitely cannot be a part of a ball movement team. both the sophomores have no future in new york. sad but true.
great game stat. really, you really stepped up
Amar’e!! Novak was wide open!!!Damn it man
Outworks not lugworms….fucking amare. Novak was wide open
We’ve no draft picks, my lord
Dolan, ya
No cap room, my lord
Dolan, ya
Max contracts, my lord
Dolan, ya
First round exits, lord
Dolan, ya
Larry Brown is smilin’, lord
Dolan, ya
Isiah high fivin’, lord
Dolan, ya
D’antoni’s grinning, lord
Dolan, ya
Cuz we’re not winning, lord
Dolan, ya
(So glad I can channel my energy through folk music.)
Glad they gave Bron a tech. How u gonna complain about a no-call when a) you didnt get fouled and b) you and ur minions have been getting ridiculous calls all night long.
did reggie miller just suggest that bibby is our future pg??
While this is no way to end a season, with no fight, there’s at least something to look forward to next season. A full, healthy training camp with Lin, Amaré and Melo should theoretically work wonders for the absurd stagnation in the offense. I’m also gonna bank on Stat improving a great deal on defense in the offseason.
If Field’s contract hasn’t expired, I hope he improves his godless jumpshot and his handle. If it’s expired, I dont see how they don’t let him walk.
Lmao…
Nice play Landry….
And again!
all right…..no one jinx anything here. shhhhh
Landry Fields leading a comeback?!?!
We cut the lead all the way to the teens…yay!
Hopefully this is what’s happening and Knicks doesn’t match other team’s offer. By watching these playoff games this seems to become more and more clear. With Woodson as coach next year, and his offense scheme, all he needs is a PG that doesn’t turn the ball over and pass to Melo after half court, there are very many cheap PGs out there that fits this role, no need to spend big on Lin.
TNT annoucers make me sick. I don’t know why the hell I DVR on TNT instead MSG.
What the hell is wrong with Chandler?
Tyson Chandler has been so, so dreadful.
Selfish play by Melo there….Chandler hands of stone but still
Thanks, Reggie.
Reggie is right about one thing – Melo’s making shots that are just straight up ridiculous.
But why can’t he play as inspired on D?
but also sadly new york will never win a championship with melo. this hero team which management will juice for the next three years will be a mediocre and luke warm till its death.
That was some of the worst ‘analysis’ I’ve ever heard from Reggie Miller. Honestly, I’ve lost even more respect for him. First the nonsense about amare and melo – as has been said before how can anyone tell when there isn’t a single guard on the team to penetrate and open up shots? And then to say Lin waved Melo off? Lin brought his shots down a lot after Melo came back and became more of a distributor. Finally to compare bibby and lin? Did he watch a knick game this year?
Btw, Melo needs to get an A tonight – to do what he did while being guarded by lebron. Heroic (no pun intended). Now if only chandler, jr, and amare showed up…
and amare smiles as miami celebrates
Ah well, its been fun game chatting with y’all. Go Indy!
Its so cute of TNT trying to make it seem like the Pacers-Heat series will be competitive.
Well, that sucked.
Guess there’s always next year =(
Good Lord, that’s gonna be ugly. Indiana might not be able to even run a set.
At least I have the Yankees to keep my occupied until the Knicks season starts again :-)
TNT/ESPN have generally been pretty disappointing on the analysis. You can’t get reasonable insight on the small market teams, because they don’t know anything. On NY there just are too many haters with a agendas.
I think it will be competitive and I think we made the Heat look better than they are.
Melo 31 shot to get 35 pts is not most efficient for scoring. Yes close 50% FG, but need get line more then that.
Did some predict JR go 3-15 on this board? He might need opt-in now.
Novak zero shot 12 minutes, how awesome.
Getting to the line is dependent on officials blowing the whistle when you are hit. From what I saw Melo had at least 3 fouls not called for him in the 3rd quarter alone. Can’t blame him for that.
Yeah, melo did all he could. Also, lanes not open for drives since miami didn’t have to guard a lot of the knicks.
I agree espn guys are terrible, but I expect more from tnt. I wish marv and kerr did the series instead. And I can’t watch msg anymore cause breen is so annoying. Sigh.
I wonder what lessons this team learned from the season. I really can’t see how the team will be any better next year. But there really aren’t many options for upgrading the roster. No cap space. No draft picks. We are stuck right here for the next few years I think. Let’s try to enjoy first round outs through 2015.
You do understand the team we watched tonight was not the team we’ll have next year, right? Like our starting backcourt might be a bit different?
Hmmn. Let’s see. They have a top 10 PG who is coming back. They have a shutdown ball hawk coming back. They have a full training camp with their team and coach who have barely played 20 games together thus far. You can’t be serious. So, I guess if the Bulls lose to the 76ers tomorrow you’ll say the same about them, right?
You take ‘pessimistic, depressed, snakebit fan’ to a new level.
If (BIG IF) Melo becomes tradale, then the whole thing opens up. He’s probably at the peak of his trade value right now after these playoff performances.
Let’s try this again (please someone delete my previous two posts):
@Thomas B
I agree. Pretty much the hardest type of team to root for IMO. No hope. I’d rather the team be terrible and young. At least then there’s the off chance of a young guy breaking out. I also think there’s a chance to win 55 games if we traded Melo for more complementary players. The problem is that will never happen, and it would require a more creative offense, which Woodson does not have a reputation for.
Melo tradeable? I think you meant amare. Melo would be easy to move.
As long as Lin and our “Big” 3 are healthy all next season this team should easily win 50 games and finally win a playoff round. Beyond that though yeah not sure how much farther they can go but still is a helluva lot better than what we’ve had the past 11 years.
Woodson going play too much Melo iso ball next year. I sure we probably get 4th seed with Boston rebuilding, but iso ball too easy game plan for.
we wouldve done much better with everyone healthy. just wasnt our season
Umm, we have a 23yr old PG and a 22yr old shooting guard, the DPOY who is 27, and Melo, who is 27. And maybe amare comes back in shape. How much younger do you want them to get? We’re younger than boston and miami and, I think, better than indiana.
You guys are depressing. And wrong.
i do think melo and stat playing together is a huge issue. they just cant play together especially without a pg. stat is just lost without one and melo gets all the shots
I think we should wait to see who’s coaching before we decide who should stay and who should go. I certainly hope Woodson isn’t back, seeing that his only upside was defense and even D’Antoni had us as a top 10 defensive unit this year. If the coach we have thinks Amar’e can still be useful (as he’s exhibited in the last two games), I’d be all for keeping him unless a team like Atlanta offers us Josh Smith or something outrageous like that. But for now, we can’t know for sure that having Amar’e and Melo on the same roster is detrimental to winning basketball games.
This is what Andrew Bynum meant about teams giving up in elimination games, btw.
I meant Melo, at this point we won’t get anything good in return for Amar’e, Melo on the other hand is at his peak. However I don’t think Knicks’ management will put Melo on the trading block, they just can’t, after traded the whole starting lineup for him 1 and half year ago.
Also, amare had a very tough year, physically and emotionally. I bet he comes back in much better shape next year.
this irritated me also.
let’s enjoy being Houston 03-08 until 2015, I’m sure it will be a hell of a ride.
Reggie Miller is an ass. Total fuckin’ ass.
Bibby played well, rebounded and tried. He simply cannot penetrate. It is impossible for him, sad.
Amare is an enigma. He played one handed, but he has looked awful for 90% of the season. Don’t know what he’ll do/can do.
I hope Melo can play with Amare and Lin. Somebody posted upthread that Fields and Lin won’t sign with this team. That may be true, though I don’t know how Lin could get out as a RFA.
I miss Linsanity.
I know you guys are depressed the season is over, but this is ridiculous.
well, if that’s being depressed, then call me depressed for the last 5 months.
this team is very similar to those Rockets teams… a questionable superstar and an incredibly injury-prone big man, both on huge contracts…
we do have Chandler, who can probably by himself turn us into… the Atlanta Hawks, a 2nd round out team.
Jeremy Lin needs to be a better shooting and less-athletic version of Russel Westbrook. This way, Melo can play a Kevin Durant role on offense, and we’ll still be able to play pick and roll basketball with Amar’e or Tyson. I really do believe that if Lin and Shumpert were both 100% healthy, we’d be up 3-2 right now on a Miami team that appears to not care or respect this team enough to give us their best shot. They don’t look like champions, or anywhere as good as the Thunder, Clippers, and Spurs do right now.
Idk what game u were watching no one ontge nix folded…. They gilt outplayed sheesh man
We also have Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, and a draft pick that could turn into a player like Robbie Hummel or some other potential steal in the draft. This team has a very good chance to be as good as the Bulls, and Dwyane Wade is already 30. Things aren’t as bleak as you’d like to believe.
Got outplayed *
I guess you also think the Mike James-David Wesley backcourt is comparable to Lin and Shumpert.
You are depressed…
I only skimmed this thread quickly, but is anyone talking about the pretty lousy and disappointing series for Chandler? I get that he had the flu for the first two games (and fuck you once again for that, Toney), but the last three were not good either, very disappointing way to go out after the season he had.
Guys, this was a very strange season, with terrible injuries. We finished pretty much like we should have, given the fact that we blew many easy games and therefore sacrificed seeding. That was the biggest frustration for me this year. I try hard to look at the team as a whole, but can’t keep but coming back to the thought that Stat can not be the starting power forward, because he is simply not a power forward. I’m not going to rip him, but he needs to either be moved, or, next year, come off the bench. IMO, it is not a matter of being in better shape—it’s his skill set, particularly on defense. Also, JR is pretty clueless, often useless, but efforts big time. Notwithstanding, I, for one, do not really want to see him back. Fields is not a starting 2 on any competitive team. I don’t know what to say about Chandler, who looked pretty bad this series, but awesome overall. I believe the core of Chandler, Melo and Lin will take us for a really nice ride next year. To me, while I appreciate what Woody has done this year, the jury is still out. BTW, shout out to Bibby. Also, a shout out to the authors herein. Great job and thanks for all your time, attention and effort.
LOL if you can’t beat them now, wait until they’re old.. That’s not the right mentality for a professional sports team.
Top 10 point? Really? Paul, Williams, Irving, Rondo, Rose, Parker, Rubio, Westbrook, Nash, Curry, and like 2 guys in this years draft. Try again.
Shumpert will be gone most of next season. 7 to 9 months Try again.
Bulls are like a 60 win team. They proved that. They lost the MVP. This team barely gets to .500 and they don’t have an MVP.
To quote John McEnroe “You can NOT be serious!”
the only problem with our “big 3″ is they are the big one on the defensive end and the big 2 on the offensive end and and incompatible big 2 at that.
47 wins if everything goes right next year.
I was just saying he sucked to my friend….today he missed more putbacks and fumbled more balls then I have ever seen
well, “like” isn’t the right word, I’ve been through enough terrible Knicks teams to learn a little bit how to dislike flawed rosters.
and look, steals in the draft are really rare… we’ve lucked out with Shumpert, but this isn’t going to happen every year.
I do hope Shumpert comes back strong from the injury, and Lin is able to adjust to playing with everybody else (and that we can resign him).
the Bulls are still much deeper than us, and the Heat have better stars.
But… but… training camp is so important! Where else are they going to learn rhythm and chemistry and all that stuff that’s going to turn this team into a #1 seed?
We won 36 in a bad 66 are you serious with 47?
Why not? Every team has its window. I believe we’ll be competitive (top 3 in the east for the next 2 years and then if we make a couple of decent moves and lin/shumpert get better, we have a real shot at contending for the nba title in ’14-’15 and beyond, especially once amare can be moved as an expiring contract. . After 12 years of misery, there is finally something to truly look forward to.
and I’m sorry, but this whole “training camp” thing is bullshit.
the Clippers changed as much as the Knicks did, are much better and they haven’t had any practice time either… and oh, by the way, they have probably one of the 5 worst coaches in the league.
Reading all these posts is somewhat irritating. I don’t think we’re as bad or fucked for the future as you think. We played a healthy top 4 team in the league with our starting PG (Lin), starting SG (Shump), starting PF (Amare), backup PG (Baron), backup SF (Jeffries) all with some form of partial or total injury, and our DPOY Center with the Flu. No team in the league could withstand losses of that magnitude. I don’t think we would have beaten Miami with a completely healthy roster, but at least could have made it a competitive 6-7 game series. I’m with whoever above said that we’re likely to win 50+ games next year and go into the playoffs with homecourt in round 1. Let’s not be so fatalistic. We just had poor luck and that’s all there is to it. Ask the Bulls!
Tyson Chandler is 29.
Clippers got the best pg in the game who us the floor general dint act Like that’s not a thing
What is it Charles Barkley says? What do you call a PF who averages less than 8 rebounds a game? A SF. And the Knicks already have one of those getting a ton of money.
Shumpert is back in december or so (that’s 8 month). I think your math is wrong. Try again.
Williams, as in Mo? Rubio? Curry? I don’t remember those guys leading anyone even to the playoffs. Try again.
Do we really need to go back and rehas Lin’s stats again, like we’ve done time and time again?
You guys are depressing…
I don’t necessarily disagree with you that this team’s future isn’t overly bright, but why are you anointing guys like Rubio and Curry? Lin and Rubio essentially had the same rookie season with injuries, except Lin was noticeably better. Rubio turns the ball over quite a bit. And Steph Curry is seemingly never healthy, and is not a true distributor either.
I agree that becoming a 50 win team who cant get out of the 2nd round is not great but its pretty arrogant for a freaking Knicks fan to complain about that as if we as fans deserve better or are too good to root for a team like that.
The Knicks have fucking sucked for 11 years basically, winning 50 games and making it to the 2nd round would be pretty damn good especially since that should be the minimum we can expect for the next 3 years. I mean if we are going to complain that for the next 3 years all we can hope for is to win 50 games and get eliminated in the 2nd round and act like its not even worth rooting for this team during that time frame than shit I dunno what to tell you.
That would be Deron Williams.
Yeah, and they are completely healthy and still no guarantee they make it out of the first round. And they aren’t playing miami.
Yeah, watching clips game got me confused. But to say rubio, curry, and a couple guys in the draft are better than lin is bullshit. And the stats don’t back it up.
completely serious.
the knicks have no cap space and no roster flexibility and are lacking 3 first round picks and 2 #2 picks gone over the next 4 years.
their starting back court (fields and douglas) of this past year likely won’t be on the roster moving forward, and if they are, that just says how bad the roster is.
lin will be a 23 yr old with 30 games of experience that is coming off the repair of an old injury who couldn’t make it back in 5 weeks where grant hill made it back in 15 days from cartilage repair.
the only wing defender won’t be 100% if ever for 18 months from acl repair.
our 13 million dollar defensive center is an enormous liability on the offensive end as was displayed in games 4 and 5 where he was helpless to help a stagnant offense as a number 3 or 4 complimentary threat because he has zero offensive skills other than dunking.
our 2 big scorers are totally incompatible. and huge liabilities on the defensive end.
amar’e will likely need surgical repair of his disc. good luck keeping him healthy and we can no longer amnesty him because that was eaten up to acquire a very nice one way complimentary player.
so , yes…. how will they possibly do better than this past season moving forward?
JR’s tweet:
JR Smith ? @TheRealJRSmith
Damn didn’t know this man people didn’t want me in #NY might just get what you asking for! #sorrykidz
Chandler will be 30 before next season starts. Players RARELY improve after age 24, the age Fields will be next year. Players generally start to decline at 28, the age Melo will be in a couple weeks. We have one quality young player in Lin whose best case scenario is probably a poor man’s Russell Westbrook (who is the same age, BTW, as Lin). Westbrook works in OKC because Durant doesn’t have to dominate the ball to be dominant. That is not the case with Anthony.
Shumpert is unlikely to be the same player he was this season for at least another 18 months (read: 2013/14 season).
The injuries are a poor excuse for this team’s record. We went 8-1 during Linsanity — Melo missed all those games, and Stoudemire missed half. We went 9-4 down the stretch with Stoudemire and Lin both hurt. Take out those two streaks, and the team has a record of 19-25. We might have missed the playoffs if “healthy”.
If we look at teams that won a similar # of games to NY, all of them are either very young, or look to have a ton of cap space:
Utah: top five of Millsap: 26, Hayward: 21, Harris: 28, Favors: 20
Denver: top five of McGee: 23, Gallinari: 23, Lawson: 24, Afflalo: 26, Faried: 22
Dallas, Houston, Phoenix: lots of cap space this summer
Philly and Milwaukee are in a similar boat to us going into next year (although Philly is definitely younger and has a ton of cap space summer after this).
Goooooooooooooooood
Tired of defending this team to all the irrational haters. You guys are worse than the media. Strange you guys call yourself ‘fans” and then take a completely one-sided view to pronounce the team finished for the next 5 years, despite this being easily the most promising team in a decade. You are the guys who deserve isaiah.
LOL at JR re-tweeting fans’ tweets saying how bad he is. This dude is not staying.
Im about to tweet him asking if he will change his Twitter handle to 3for15.
Didn’t know OKC doesn’t run plays for durant and that he doesn’t dominate the ball.
Didn’t know you were a doctor who repaired ACLs.
Didn’t realize Utah and their big 3 of milsap, harris, and heyward were so tough.
Didn’t realize dallas, houston, and phoenix were young up and coming teams that, with a little cap space, could contend.
Thanks for the education.
You may be re-tweeted by him lol, apparently he is finding all the mentions of him on twitter, dude’s real professional
i’m sure you are tired primarily because you are defending the indefensible. dolan has wrested defeat from the jaws of victory with his need for a “big star” last year to justify his renovations with an enormous ticket price hike. and the suckers keep buying a mediocre product at exorbitant prices.
there is nothing wrong with being the atlanta hawks of the last few years as long as you think being a slightly better than average team is a good result for blowing up 4 seasons (2 to get under the cap and 2 to put together this inflexible group).
been a knick fan since the days of jumpin johnny green and willie nauls. always will be. however, that doesn’t allow me to check logic and reason at the door.
please tell me why this group (sans the losses) will be better net year. expecting starks to appear from the grocery line, mason to come from turkey and another lin off the waiver wire???
Thank you because I wasnt sure how to say Deron Williams without also insulting that guy by asking if he ever watched basketball. Perhaps watch Deron Williams torch Lin earlier this year created a mental block. Nah, you need mental ability to have a mental block.
Just as a final note, I think today’s second quarter is strong evidence I was right. Lin at a self proclaimed 85% >>>>>>>>> TD
Classy. Just because you mentioned williams after paul and the clips game is on, doesn’t change the fact that you initial post was moronic and uninformed and you’re overall analysis weak.
OKC runs plays for Durant, but Durant can also play off the ball, which helps since Westbrook (like Lin and Stoudemire) is not an effective off ball player.
If you are unimpressed by Harris, Hayward and Millsap, you should be unimpressed by this team. What have they done to impress you?
Dallas, Houston and Phoenix are not young up and coming teams. Don’t twist my words. They are teams with a LOT of cap space. Dallas will probably sign Deron Williams this summer. Phoenix has stupid management, so who knows what they’ll do. Houston has a very intelligent and careful GM, so I imagine they’ll do well with the 25m they have to spend this summer.
I don’t hate the Knicks. I long for them to be great. I watch this team, and I see that it’s not great and has virtually no potential to BE great. I think about how it could change that. If you’re satisfied with first round exits and think that’s exciting and wonderful, that’s great. I don’t blame you. It certainly is less painful than watching the mid-2000s Knicks. I’m happy for you, and you have the team you want now.
BTW, wow is LAC losing they’re shit.
sniff sob.
lmao
We have no idea if Lin can be a good off-ball player— I believe he can be excellent. Melo is a good off-ball player historically. Amar’e is one of the best.
Lin is the fulcrum of the offense– he can make this team great.
There’s all the reason in the world to expect the Knicks to be much better next year.
We’ll see, but I think you’re wrong (or maybe we won’t. Maybe there will just be more excuses). Stoudemire has never been a good off ball player unless you consider the semi-transition style hoops he got in Phoenix. Melo, at best, is an average off ball player. Lin was (briefly) an okay off ball player. Stoudemire can’t dribble and is a mediocre shooter. How do you foresee him succeeding off the ball? For wings, the primary question is, can you catch and shoot? If you can’t, there’s no need for the defense to close out hard, meaning you either take that jumpshot (something the defense is fine with) or you reset. Off ball cuts to the rim work when you can actually draw the defense out of the paint.
No, you must be wrong. Those 3 have already played 8 games together. And they lost one of those games to the Heat. Its decided already. They’ll never make it out of the the first round.
Melo’s most efficient years have come when he’s had a higher mixture of off-ball scoring. Why did you ignore the playoff video I posted?
Anyone judging how the Knicks played against the Heat with JR Smith as point guard, while ignoring what the team did with Lin, Melo and Amar’e in the lineup post-Woodson is an ass.
They’ve played 17 games together. They are 8-9 in those games.
I’m not judging them on that performance. I’m judging them on a season and a half. What playoff video?
Excuses, eh? give me a break. Do we need to re-hash what’s happened this year and put it into the context of the rest of the teams in the playoffs?
No team that made the NBA playoffs had anywhere near as much adversity as the Knicks — not even close. No team IN THE playoffs had as much adversity as the Knicks.
Stoudemire is one of the game’s premier off-ball scorers. You just have to have a point guard and a balanced offense to get him scoring. You realize that he was a 600Ts guy since Woodson took over?
Lin has a game that suitable both as a primary ball-handler and as a weakside attacker. Westbrook would be excellent in many off-ball situations if others on offense created more defensive attention.
Excuses, eh? give me a break. Do we need to re-hash what’s happened this year and put it into the context of the rest of the teams in the playoffs?
No team that made the NBA playoffs had anywhere near as much adversity as the Knicks — not even close. No team IN THE playoffs had as much adversity as the Knicks.
Stoudemire is one of the game’s premier off-ball scorers. You just have to have a point guard and a balanced offense to get him scoring. You realize that he was a 600Ts guy since Woodson took over?
Lin has a game that suitable both as a primary ball-handler and as a weakside attacker. Westbrook would be excellent in many off-ball situations if others on offense created more defensive attention. I should say, much of Wesbtrook’s success comes after ball reversals.
Actually amare has a good midrange jumpshot. He gets a lot of looks off the ball on on curls at the elbow. And he’s an above average pnr roll guy. Melo is a great spot up midrange shooter and he makes the defense close out hard, leading to the paint being open. Hence Nene’s outstanding FG %. Hmm, what are we missing?….oh right, to play off the ball, you need a guy who can handle the ball instead and get you the ball. A point guard.
I recently posted melo’s 39 pt game against LA where he primarily worked off-the ball on the weakside…..He was put back on the strong side because the Lakers eventually adjusted their defense — but a strong-side attack of Lin/Chandler/Amar’e will create a much higher percentage of good looks for Melo.
I’m talking about post MDA. Isn’t it clear now MDA was a big part of the problem? Or do you view that as an ‘excuse’
Melo won 75% of his regular season games when he had Chauncey Billups in the lineup alongside him (prior to 2011). Amar’e won close to 70 % of his games when Steve Nash was healthy ——
neither guy played alongside a defensive player as good as Chandler.
This team was DOMINANT with Woodson with it’s top 4 players in the line-up — and that was with Lin and Melo scoring inefficiently at the time.
It is with great sadness that Bob and I give you this tag-teamed final recap:
http://knickerblogger.net/heat-checkmate/
Here we go:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/amar-e-stoudemire-fired-bring-steve-nash-york-article-1.1075531?localLinksEnabled=false
I think we can be much better next year with a proper training camp. It will hurt that Shump won’t be a part of it though. A HUGE open question is what we do for three point shooting. We were already one of the worst three point shooting teams in the league and we’re most likely losing both our top three point shooters (Novak and Smith). If teams were desperate enough to start and pay Extra E, they’ll pay to get the best 3pt shooter in the NBA.
That aside, our starters who are coming back all have important holes in their games they need to close if we want to truly be an ELITE team. If they don’t we’ll be a better team, maybe the #4 or #5 team in the East…but just a pretender
Lin – decision-making in traffic, going left, jump shooting
Shump – shot quality, shot consistency
Amare – improved man on man defense and summer-long tutoring in HELP defense (this is huge, or he should be coming of the bench)
Melo – get in better shape to start, consistent effort on defense, greater focus on play making for others, improve efficiency
Chandler – improve non-dunk finishing ability, catching the ball in traffic (getting open and being ready to catch), get one low post move –a hook or something – even Perkins has one low post move
and the rumors begin anew…. possible to sign Nash (vet min), Lin (MLE) and Novak (scraps)??
@ruru & JR
The team was dominant ala 2004 pistons. I’ve cited the stats before — I don’t feel like digging them up again — but if we performed like we did in those 6 games, we would have been far and away the best defensive team in the league. Do you really believe that that’s sustainable?
Regarding Stoudemire playing effectively under Woodson — I feel it’s more a case of our perimeter shooters coming to life (again, I’ve posted these stats before as well, and they are RIDICULOUS. Shumpert, Davis, Bibby were all like 10% better post D’Antoni, and Novak got a lot more minutes). I do believe Stoudemire/Lin can be good. I don’t believe Melo can be good while they are good and vice versa because Melo is not comfortable off the ball. One game against the lakers doesn’t change the fact that one of the biggest reasons we don’t have MDA as coach and don’t have a higher playoff seed is because Melo struggled off the ball and took out his frustration on the coach.
No… We’ll talk later.