Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

2012 Mayan Apocalypse Game Thread: Cavaliers v. WE’RE DOOOOOOOOMED

So today we learned a couple of things.

One, when they renovated MSG, they unearthed an Indian burial ground. Dolan was notified and his response was clearly, “Eh. Eff those bozos. They’re dead. What’s the worst that could happen?”

Two, even though the Jets acquired Tim Tebow, God still hates New York City.

In this time of massive sorrow, let’s turn to that noted ‘Bocker backer, Leo Tolstoy:

“Only people who are capable of loving strongly can also suffer great sorrow, but this same necessity of loving serves to counteract their grief and heals them.”

Loves me some injury-wracked, preternaturally doomed Knicks and all y’all. Your elegies for tonight’s game and the 2012 season, go here.

135 comments on “2012 Mayan Apocalypse Game Thread: Cavaliers v. WE’RE DOOOOOOOOMED

  1. jon abbey

    honestly if Smith and Davis would just play like they could and Jeffries came back, this team would still be tough.

  2. Thomas B.

    jon abbey:
    honestly if Smith and Davis would just play like they could and Jeffries came back, this team would still be tough.

    Davis needs a time machine.

  3. Mulligan

    God. If everyone else was healthy, I’d be hopeful. But Baron, Melo and even Chandler are breaking down. This is gonna be rough.

  4. Z

    “The Knicks are ready to take on Tristan Thompson and the Cavs”….

    Yes, we should still be the upper-dog, even with Landry Fields as our oly healthy player on the roster.

  5. Nick C.

    Robert Silverman:
    So who’s going to be the Willie Green for tonight? Donald Sloan? Alonzo Gee?

    Of its like last night whoever JR Smith is supposed to be guarding. (just kidding)

  6. Nick C.

    Stat question on Tyson tipping out to Melo who goes right up and hits the J. Does Tyson get credit for a rebound, assist, both or none?

  7. Kikuchiyo

    Robert Silverman:
    So who’s going to be the Willie Green for tonight? Donald Sloan? Alonzo Gee?

    As I mentioned in the last thread, in last night’s game “Sloan played 16 minutes with 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers and 0 fouls.” (Cavstheblog)

    What’s the most minutes a player has logged without ANY stats?

  8. max fisher-cohen

    my guess is it’s a judgment call on both the rebound and the assist. It all depends on whether the stat keepers think Chandler intentionally tipped the ball to anthony as opposed to just managing to get a hand on the ball.

  9. Nick C.

    Dopey question. WTF was that Novak in the left corner to JR at the 3point elbow, Jorts around the right block with Shump further up and the fifth guy not in the picture. JR drives into an empty paint for a layup. Is that a design or just defensive ineptitude?

  10. ruruland

    Jake S.:
    Really though, the F happened to Toney Douglas?

    Let’s have some patience. There is still great hope for this team if he can rediscover who he was last year….Give it a few games.

  11. Jake S.

    ruruland: Let’s have some patience. There is still great hope for this team if he can rediscover who he was last year….Give it a few games.

    I’m ready to. It just amazes me that here we are a year after it looked like he was emerging as a nice rotation player.

  12. ruruland

    Jake S.: I’m ready to. It just amazes me that here we are a year after it looked like he was emerging as a nice rotation player.

    Part injury… Part bigger pressure role. A lot of guys go through a major slump in their second year.

  13. Doug

    I think his confidence took a massive hit after failing so badly as the starting point. Here’s a guy who works so hard and plays with a lot of heart, only to find despite his best effort he’s unable to do what the team asks of him.

  14. ruruland

    Doug:
    I think his confidence took a massive hit after failing so badly as the starting point. Here’s a guy who works so hard and plays with a lot of heart, only to find despite his best effort he’s unable to do what the team asks of him.

    I agree. But we also need to understand that it was a very small sample

  15. Jake S.

    ruruland: Part injury… Part bigger pressure role. A lot of guys go through a major slump in their second year.

    It’s his third.

  16. jock cowles

    So I’ve been desperately searching for a silver lining, and here’s all I have:

    If Lin and Stoudemire were healthy and the Knicks got knocked out, then it’d be a dissapoinent. Now any playoff success is an incredible achievement!

    And that, friends, was my first inebriated post on KB.

  17. ruruland

    Nick C.:
    Melo had some nice hops there!

    The blow by dunk on the baseline or from the elbow is patented Melo. teams keep singling him… if he’s healthy it won’t last much longer.

  18. ruruland

    Jake S.:
    Could JR Smith conceivably run the point?

    He did it for 10-15 minutes a game in 2009. Better suited off ball, but he and Shump can do it together.

  19. Jake S.

    ruruland: He did it for 10-15 minutes a game in 2009. Better suited off ball, but he and Shump can do it together.

    He just seems to play better with the ball in his hands. And now’s the time to start thinking creatively.

  20. ruruland

    Jake S.: He just seems to play better with the ball in his hands. And now’s the time to start thinking creatively.

    It can work. But historically speaking JR’s had his 590-600TS days p off the ball with Andre Miller or Allen Iverson. He has the ability to be a playmaker, something, for whatever reason we’ve seen very little of, and a better driver than he’s been so far.

    He’s very effective with a good big man in the pnr, and he should work really well with Amar’e when he comes back

  21. daJudge

    In this time of massive sorrow, let’s turn to that noted ‘Bocker backer, Leo Tolstoy:

    “Only people who are capable of loving strongly can also suffer great sorrow, but this same necessity of loving serves to counteract their grief and heals them.”

    Robert, I love Russian literature so much and I hate to cuss, but you’re a fuc__ scream. On a serious note, don’t y’all wish this quote were true and not romantic?. Anyway, let TD play a bit. This team sucks big time and their best player is out. They need him if he is available.

  22. ess-dog

    I”m renting ‘With Honors’ tonight and watching the WHOLE DAMN THING in honor of J.Lin. Poor little guy.

  23. thyrdrail

    LIN OUT FOR 6 WEEKS!!!!! OUR WORST SUSPICIONS CAME TRUE!!! I KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP!!!!! NO WAY HE’D NOT PLAY DUE TO A LITTLE SORE KNEE AND KNICKS BEING SO SECRETIVE ABOUT IT!!!!! HE WORKED SO HARD ALL HIS LIFE TO GET INTO THE NBA – HE’D KEEP PLAYING AS MUCH AS HE CAN TO HELP THE TEAM WIN WIN WIN!!!! WWHYYYY????? WWWHYYYYYYYYY???? WWWWHHHYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

  24. JC Knickfan

    Doug:
    Did Clyde just say Novak is now the #1 3PT shooter in the league?

    Mike Miller does not Qualify anymore.

  25. TheXman

    baron still sucks ugh, no way even if we make the playoffs we can win Biddy as the point.

  26. TheXman

    We can conceivably lose this in the 4th qtr, no energy tonight. Losing this could be end of the season, especially as they’re deflated with Lin out for the year.

  27. Z

    TheXman:
    We can conceivably lose this in the 4th qtr, no energy tonight.Losing this could be end of the season, especially as they’re deflated with Lin out for the year.

    Knicks lose games in the 3rd qtr, not the 4th.

    7 TO and CLE can’t get on top.

  28. Caleb

    Only 65 comments?

    Knicks not available on League Pass so I’ve had the Sixers-Hawks up – Atlanta was in control but suddenly seems totally gassed and the Sixers are picking them apart… Philly up 6. Too bad – looked like a good chance to make up ground.

  29. Thomas B.

    Okay. It is time (past time really) for Shumpert to replace Landry as the starting two. There is no reason to endure Landry at the “shooting guard” any longer. Make him the back up 3, which is what he should have been since opening day.

  30. Z

    Shump has been the starting 2 for 4 games now.

    The question is: should Shump be the starting 1 from here on out.

    Thomas B.:
    Okay. It is time (past time really) for Shumpert to replace Landry as the starting two.

  31. Nick C.

    Jorts had a pretty nice possession there sets screens for three guys around the court then gets the offensive rebound and goes to the line.

  32. Robert Silverman Post author

    Thomas B.:
    Okay. It is time (past time really) for Shumpert to replace Landry as the starting two.There is no reason to endure Landry at the “shooting guard” any longer.Make him the back up 3, which is what he should have been since opening day.

    Thomas – are you recapping tonight or am I?

  33. thyrdrail

    geez, landry fields with 6 TOs. is he doing it in memory of j lin or baron davis put the TO voodoo curse on him to get it off himself?? :P

  34. Richmond County

    I don’t get excited when JR hits a shot because all it means is he’s going to jack up a contested three early in the clock the next time up the court.

  35. thyrdrail

    gee the game is so boring. knick games are so boring without jeremy lin now. no team ball like before, everyone just making jumpshots, no pick n rolls, no attacking the net, drawing fouls and getting free throws. i predict knicks game ratings will significantly drop without lin playing. msg and time warner will go back to fighting about money again.

  36. thyrdrail

    AND NO ONE IS GIVING THE BALL TO NOVAK. not spacing the floor so novak can get his shots without being always guarded.

  37. ruruland

    thyrdrail:
    gee the game is so boring. knick games are so boring without jeremy lin now. no team ball like before, everyone just making jumpshots, no pick n rolls, no attacking the net, drawing fouls and getting free throws. i predict knicks game ratings will significantly drop without lin playing. msg and time warner will go back to fighting about money again.

    Great time to clear the bandwagon I suppose.

  38. ruruland

    thyrdrail:
    AND NO ONE IS GIVING THE BALL TO NOVAK. not spacing the floor so novak can get his shots without being always guarded.

    Really?

  39. thyrdrail

    i dont like bandwagons. i prefer suv’s. bandwagons are too 1820s. im a 2012 type of dude.

  40. Z

    I remember in ’89 when the Garden crowd would get excited when Kiki V would find himself with the ball and an open 3pter… What’s up with New Yorkers getting off on white guys shooting 3s? (nobody moaned in eccstacy when Extra E would shoot that same shot. Or Glen Rice. Or Hubert Davis…

  41. ruruland

    Richmond County:
    I don’t get excited when JR hits a shot because all it means is he’s going to jack up a contested three early in the clock the next time up the court.

    Sigh

  42. ruruland

    thyrdrail:
    i dont like bandwagons. i prefer suv’s. bandwagons are too 1820s. im a 2012 type of dude.

    And to be clear not a Knicks fan, a Lin fan.

  43. thyrdrail

    i was a knicks fan before but they sucked for so long i lost interest like thousands of new yawkers. i followed their games big time against bulls. i dont know what they’ve done since.

  44. d-mar

    JR seems like he plays great when the Knicks are kicking ass, but when they’re in a dogfight (like last night) he comes up short. Which is not a good sign for the games ahead.

  45. thyrdrail

    i think melo is probably gonna get pissed jr keeps ball hogging many games, especially in games when jr is shooting cold like the other game.

  46. thyrdrail

    why dont woodson ever play jerome jordan? what a waste of 7 feet! i’m sure he can do something, even block balls.

  47. Z

    d-mar:
    JR seems like he plays great when the Knicks are kicking ass, but when they’re in a dogfight (like last night) he comes up short. Which is not a good sign for the games ahead.

    The reason this wasn’t a dog fit was because Smith played great.

  48. ruruland

    Z: The reason this wasn’t a dog fit was because Smith played great.

    Right…. JR’s been in more than a few wars in his day, and has had huge games in tight regular season must-win games against top teams and in the playoffs..

  49. Doug

    thyrdrail:
    i was a knicks fan before but they sucked for so long i lost interest like thousands of new yawkers. i followed their games big time against bulls. i dont know what they’ve done since.

    You sure are making up for lost time!

  50. JC Knickfan

    I Hope Buck loses. I still want Knicks get 8th seed. Next up is at Indiana. This going be tough 4 games coming up.

    Best case we JJ back in 1 week.
    Amare back April 23 (4 weeks)
    Lin back early on April 30 (4 weeks not 6).

    We possible get back to solid 10 man rotation for start playoffs probably against Bulls.

    Grant Hill had same surgery Friday is expect back by end of season.
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-03-30/Suns-Grant-Hill-could-be-done-for-season/53889190/1

    Alan Han said had same surgery in college and was back 4 weeks.

  51. ephus

    With this win, you can put last night’s loss into proper prospective. Splitting these two games was par for the course. Now, the Knicks need to win over the Pacers on Tuesday, because the Bulls are looking tough at the back half of the week.

  52. Thomas B.

    jon abbey:
    unfortunately even Shumpert can’t start at the 1, 2, and 3 simultaneously. :)

    If it keeps Pharaoh Bibby II from leaving his sarcophagus, I’m all for it.

  53. ruruland

    winning 2 to 3 of the next 4 will come down to 3 of the 5 guys playing well offensively: Shump, Davis, JR, Fields and Douglas.

  54. Thomas B.

    Z:
    Shump has been the starting 2 for 4 games now.

    The question is: should Shump be the starting 1 from here on out.

    Yes, I was saying I am in agreement with the move of Shump over Fields at the two. I don’t want Landry starting at all anymore, even with Amare out.

  55. ruruland

    Thomas B.: Yes, I was saying I am in agreement with the move of Shump over Fields at the two.I don’t want Landry starting at all anymore, even with Amare out.

    Getting hung up on who starts really doesn’t matter. Shump is getting 32-40 minutes the rest of the way. You have to have someone take up those 10-15 minutes…

  56. Z

    Doug: So, DII ball.

    Unless he was a PG playing 35 minutes a game in a DII conference that rivals the Atlantic Division, I’m not sure if Hahn’s recovery time has much bearing on this… (now, if you said he couldn’t even write on tweets for 4 weeks, then it would be saying something!)

  57. JC Knickfan

    Z: Unless he was a PG playing 35 minutes a game in a DII conference that rivals the Atlantic Division, I’m not sure if Hahn’s recovery time has much bearing on this… (now, if you said he couldn’t even write on tweets for 4 weeks, then it would be saying something!)

    Yes Hill not playing PG, but he still in NBA. March 30 to end season is roughly 4 weeks.

    – Friday March 30th Grant Hill has undergone a procedure to repair a torn meniscus in his right knee.
    The Phoenix Suns said in a news release announcing Friday’s 30-minute procedure that, if Hill’s rehabilitation goes well, he should return before the end of the regular season.

  58. ruruland

    It seems like the 6 week projection is really conservative, unless there is a significant difference in the kind of tear. Might be 4-6 weeks kind of deal, where there isn’t pressure to rush back by unscrupulous fans and media

  59. JC Knickfan

    Knick have a brutal schedule with alot away games.
    Knicks final 13 games go 6-7 including beating Bucks
    Final record = 33-33

    Bucks lost tonight and lose to Knicks there record is 24-29

    Bucks need go 9-4 to tie us.

    If we get our injury player back, this could be repeat 1999.

  60. Will the Thrill

    Jesus, Landry with 6 TO’s! I never thought I would say this but…WHERE IS BULLY WALKA?!

  61. ruruland

    Will the Thrill:
    Jesus, Landry with 6 TO’s! I never thought I would say this but…WHERE IS BULLY WALKA?!

    Considering the defense is negligibly bad, if Fields plays poorly through this 5 game deal you have to think about giving Bully a shot for those 10-15 minutes….just space the floor and knock down shots.

  62. JC Knickfan

    Bill Walker (elbow) said he will be ready to scrimmage in two weeks and may return before the end of the regular season, the New York Post reports. (about 7 days ago)

  63. Will the Thrill

    Eh that really doesn’t help much. The focus is on making the playoffs. If we get into the playoffs, there are going to be much more important things going on than choosing between Landry and Walker. Really, we are going to need huge games from Melo, hopefully Amare (if he’s back, (no pun intended)), JR, and/or Shump if we are going to stay close to the Bulls. Keep in mind that I am assuming our defense stays as good as its been.

    JC Knickfan:
    Bill Walker (elbow) said he will be ready to scrimmage in two weeks and may return before the end of the regular season, the New York Post reports. (about 7 days ago)

  64. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    Jesus, Landry with 6 TO’s! I never thought I would say this but…WHERE IS BULLY WALKA?!

    Lol I was desperate enough to ask this recently, but it turns out he’s injured. Can’t believe there was a big discussion on this board recently about who should start between Shumpert and Landry lol.

  65. jon abbey

    Juany8: Can’t believe there was a big discussion on this board recently about who should start between Shumpert and Landry lol.

    three days ago was the last one, seems like a lot longer than that.

    Shumpie credited with five steals, but responsible for at least 8-10 turnovers in total. one I noticed to check later was at 68-60, when he tipped the ball away on a drive, and it went out of bounds to NY, credited in the play by play as “Lester Hudson out of bounds lost ball turnover”, no credit to the Wall of Shump. he has been one of the best three Knicks in a lot of games this year, team high in minutes both last night (41) and tonight (39).

    this is the version of NY that blew out Orlando the other night. with Jeffries back and no one else lost, I like this team. even if they keep starting Fields (ugh) for the sake of balance, a crunch time lineup of Davis/Shump/Smith/Melo/Chandler is potentially a nice one to go to war with. hopefully the finality of the Lin news finally woke up JR and he can cut down on the partying for a month and play some hoops.

    also, Melo is playing some great D lately, steals, blocked shots, defensive boards. he has superquick hands when he tries, nice to see.

  66. Jake S.

    A final cranky thought before I tune out for the night: D’Antoni’s riding of Lin has already been well documented, but I’d like to think the Knicks players are at least 2% responsible for the latter’s injury. Maybe if they didn’t stand idly watching while the league batted him around like a Raggedy Ann doll for two months, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I know the NBA has changed dramatically since the 90’s, but Jesus, would it have hurt them to knock someone to the ground from time to time?

    *runs to his bedroom crying, like Meadow from The Sopranos*

  67. ruruland

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/27/CM85112I3J.DTL

    In many cases, the meniscus does not heal. This in turn leads to the possibility of arthroscopic repair. As minimally invasive arthroscopic techniques have blossomed, the treatment or repair of the meniscus has become a routine procedure. A surgery that 20 years ago was nearly impossible has now become the standard of care. Specialized scopes and instruments, including lasers, radiofrequency probes and all-inside stitching devices, have led the way in allowing patients significant to full recovery in…………………………….four to eight weeks.

  68. jon abbey

    if there’s really a realistic four week possibility in this specific case, it’s a little annoying they delayed surgery by a week with this tight timetable.

    ruru, talk to us about the on-court dynamic between Melo and JR on Denver. I know that Smith came in and took a ton of shots off the bench, but did they generally both play at crunch time?

  69. BigBlueAL

    Jake S.:
    A final cranky thought before I tune out for the night: D’Antoni’s riding of Lin has already been well documented, but I’d like to think the Knicks players are at least 2% responsible for the latter’s injury. Maybe if they didn’t stand idly watching while the league batted him around like a Raggedy Ann doll for two months, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I know the NBA has changed dramatically since the 90?s, but Jesus, would it have hurt them to knock someone to the ground from time to time?

    *runs to his bedroom crying, like Meadow from The Sopranos*

    Read today that Lin averaged 36 mins/g in D’Antoni’s final 19 games. Not exactly criminal abuse.

  70. Jake S.

    BigBlueAL: Read today that Lin averaged 36 mins/g in D’Antoni’s final 19 games.Not exactly criminal abuse.

    It’s a lot if you consider the compressed schedule and the amount of pressure the kid was playing under, but I’m not really hanging this on D’Antoni. Or the Knicks, for that matter. I just wish they didn’t let him get the crap beaten out of him night in and night out.

  71. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    if there’s really a realistic four week possibility in this specific case, it’s a little annoying they delayed surgery by a week with this tight timetable.

    ruru, talk to us about the on-court dynamic between Melo and JR on Denver. I know that Smith came in and took a ton of shots off the bench, but did they generally both play at crunch time?

    I’ll be back to post on this in an hour or two…. I think you’ll find it interesting.

  72. jon abbey

    Jake S.: I just wish they didn’t let him get the crap beaten out of him night in and night out.

    he beat the crap out of himself to a large extent, a big chunk of his offensive game involves creating contact inside before releasing his shot. also his odd herky-jerky way of moving is effective but also very dangerous, defenders expect guys to be in certain places and it’s easier to get hit very hard when you suddenly stop, change direction, etc. also, the way he recoils from even brushing contact on the perimeter (often snapping his upper body backwards) is dangerous. sorry to say, but to me it seemed pretty inevitable from early on and I expect an injury-plagued career, which is why I’ve been saying he’d be ideal for 24-28 minutes off the bench.

    but if what you’re saying is that Chandler or whoever should have started a fight on that Jason Kidd foul or a few others, not really sure what that would have accomplished. Chandler had just gotten his ring earlier that night in Dallas, so I doubt that was happening, and that was the cheapest shot I remember on Lin.

  73. Jake S.

    jon abbey: he beat the crap out of himself to a large extent, a big chunk of his offensive game involves creating contact inside before releasing his shot. also his odd herky-jerky way of moving is effective but also very dangerous, defenders expect guys to be in certain places and it’s easier to get hit very hard when you suddenly stop, change direction, etc. also, the way he recoils from even brushing contact on the perimeter (often snapping his upper body backwards) is dangerous. sorry to say, but to me it seemed pretty inevitable from early on and I expect an injury-plagued career, which is why I’ve been saying he’d be ideal for 24-28 minutes off the bench.

    but if what you’re saying is that Chandler or whoever should have started a fight on that Jason Kidd foul or a few others, not really sure what that would have accomplished. Chandler had just gotten his ring earlier that night in Dallas, so I doubt that was happening, and that was the cheapest shot I remember on Lin.

    It’s true that there’s a certain amount of recklessness to Lin’s game, but your memory is a little selective if you think Kidd was the only player who gave him a cheap shot. Game in and game out, guys were going out of their way to get up on him and knock him around. I’m not advocating the Knicks get into a brawl or anything (Hell, if Lin were still on Golden State or Houston, I’d hope the Knicks would work him over the same way). But it would have been nice if someone–Chandler, whoever–showed that there were consequences to repeatedly hacking one of our guys.

  74. jon abbey

    Jake S.: It’s true that there’s a certain amount of recklessness to Lin’s game, but your memory is a little selective if you think Kidd was the only player who gave him a cheap shot. Game in and game out, guys were going out of their way to get up on him and knock him around. I’m not advocating the Knicks get into a brawl or anything (Hell, if Lin were still on Golden State or Houston, I’d hope the Knicks would work him over the same way). But it would have been nice if someone–Chandler, whoever–showed that there were consequences to repeatedly hacking one of our guys.

    I guess, Chandler is already not too far from being suspended for a game for cumulative technicals, and another few games for fighting would have been a big blow to this team.

    anyway, the same thing happened to Rubio, I’m sure the same thing happens to Nash night in and night out, that’s life in the NBA.

  75. Jake S.

    jon abbey: I guess, Chandler is already not too far from being suspended for a game for cumulative technicals, and another few games for fighting would have been a big blow to this team.

    anyway, the same thing happened to Rubio, I’m sure the same thing happens to Nash night in and night out, that’s life in the NBA.

    WHICH IS WHY I RAN TO MY BEDROOM CRYING LIKE MEADOW SOPRANO.

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