Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 23, 2014

2012 Game Thread: Nueva York contra Los Bulls

Noche Latina, dontcha know. Have at it!

502 comments on “2012 Game Thread: Nueva York contra Los Bulls

  1. max fisher-cohen

    Love that block by Lin on Rose. Without their real MVP in Deng, the Bulls are beatable. Knicks are definitely playing hard tonight.

  2. limpidgimp

    maybe that little cut on Amare’s nose means he’s out for the season heh.

    lol Lin blocked Rose.

  3. dogrufus

    Sovereign:
    Dear Knicks: Please prove I am not a masochist for waking up at 0200 to watch this :)

    You haven’t learned your lesson by this point!?

  4. ephus

    It looks like Chandler has taken the big brace off of his left wrist. He certainly is doing a better job of catching the ball in transition.

    Plus, Jorts makes an early appearance.

  5. dogrufus

    Anyone else sad that the Bulls’ center can easily beat our Power Forward off the dribble?

  6. Gamecockerbocker

    Lets see if that Baron Davis vs Lin +/- team plays better/more organized/whatever thing is actually true today!

  7. 2010

    dogrufus:
    Anyone else sad that the Bulls’ center can easily beat our Power Forward off the dribble?

    on that play jorts just stood under the basket while noah dunked like he didnt want to get mozgoved

  8. DRed

    Excellent quarter. Not sure why we haven’t been playing like this for the last two weeks. Also not confident we can keep it going for 3 more quarters either.

  9. dogrufus

    DRed:
    Excellent quarter.Not sure why we haven’t been playing like this for the last two weeks.Also not confident we can keep it going for 3 more quarters either.

    Expect a complete collapse roughly during minutes 25-36

  10. drewbreez

    Signs that the team is taking this slump seriously:

    Coalescing defense, with Melo BOUNDING and ASTOUNDING on the box.
    Lin watching his turnovers, keeping his dribble and re-setting when appropriate
    Jorts out there just plain trying, and not looking quite as pasty at that
    D’Antoni exhausting the PnR so he doesn’t look like a complete historical fallacy vs. Thibs

    No more long 2′s though guys. It makes me haaaate you in transition.

  11. jon abbey

    why can’t they give effort like that for 48 minutes every game? are they not getting paid enough?

  12. ephus

    It is like night and day with Chandler not having the big brace on his wrist. He has gone from hands like Marvin Webster to actually being able to catch the ball in traffic.

  13. ephus

    Good things happen when Shumpert pushes the pace. Get the ball up court quickly and the stiffling Bulls defense does not have time to get set.

  14. dogrufus

    tenebrous:
    Just heard the refs get paid under by the gamblers. Guess Knicks loose.

    We’ve been getting a suspiciously friendly amount of calls first half…

    Wouldn’t be surprised to see that go the other way later tonight.

  15. dogrufus

    limpidgimp:
    I cringe when Baron shoots from the perimeter.

    The idea he’s better than Lin is really laughable. If the team plays better with BD leading the second unit it’s because that second unit is just better than our starting lineup with our twin millstones.

  16. Nick C.

    Haha that was great! T-1000 sealed off two guys and (still a) Baron gets a lane for a layup.

  17. letssee

    d’antoni giving davis a lot more minute this game; lin was subbed out around 3 minute mark in first quarter, and hasn’t come out since. Also looks like d’antoni isn’t trying the davis & lin backcourt combo anymore.

  18. er

    I’ve figured out why melo struggles after good first quarters ..dantoni sits the guy for literally a half hour to 45 mins what an idiot

  19. limpidgimp

    letssee: jr’s butterfinger layups continue from last game

    He can certainly get to the basket though. Dude’s in big slump.

  20. Nick C.

    Gamecockerbocker:
    Why does Fields even bother to take threes? Just take a step inside the line!

    At this point is it too much to assume the 3pt % from the first half last year was an aberration and this is the reality?

  21. dogrufus

    max fisher-cohen:
    anthony and stoudemire both on the bench the entire quarter…

    -3 with them, +6 without them.

    And the Bulls have basically the best bench in the NBA, with their starting lineup weakened by the loss of Deng…

    Our twin millstones, ladies and gentlemen

  22. dogrufus

    Nick C.: At this point is it too much to assume the 3pt % from the first half last year was an aberration and this is the reality?

    The coaching staff made him completely rework his shooting form

    apparently they were concerned the shot was going in too often

  23. letssee

    playing a lot less minutes; maybe lin can be more productive. have some legs to play with.

  24. Nick C.

    dogrufus: The coaching staff made him completely rework his shooting form

    apparently they were concerned the shot was going in too often

    I never understood why they did that.

  25. Gamecockerbocker

    I guess the league MVP can do whatever he wants regardless of rules… especially ones that are being emphasized this year… like… don’t jump into a defensive player.

  26. letssee

    lin still doing relatively well, especially on D. Melo is rusty right now after sitting out half the quarter though, missing his shots.

  27. Doug

    Nick C.: I never understood why they did that.

    It was more of a set shot with a slow-ish release. I guess they didn’t like it.

  28. Gamecockerbocker

    Jesus christ great defense for the entire shot clock until the last second and Rose just MVP’s it all over us. Also Lin Just got hit in the face after the foul whistle and nothing at extra at all. Come on.

  29. BigBlueAL

    Another 1st half where it feels like the Knicks are dominating the game but will barely be up at half-time if not trailing.

  30. Nick C.

    Nick C.:
    Pan to Bulls cheerleaders and cleavage Clyde “those are tei if by favorites”

    The phone got excited too it should have been “those are two of my favorites”

  31. Nick C.

    Back to back good defense for Amare. He also did a good job picking up Rose after the pick before the charge.

  32. Gamecockerbocker

    I don’t know if there’s any player in the league who gets brutalized in the lane as much as Lin… not sure if that last one was a foul or not, but in general he gets destroyed in the paint.

  33. art vandelay

    Best sign going into halftime: entire frontline of Bulls is foul-ridden: Asik, Boozer and Gibson each have 3 fouls

  34. letssee

    okay guys. two quarters down. first good game by lin against a true contender team. (LA and dallas eh….)

  35. Doug

    BigBlueAL:
    The only way Fields can make a FT is if the other team goaltends it.

    He needs to go back to his old shot mechanics next year. Never mind if it’s a slow release.

  36. max fisher-cohen

    regarding Fields’ J: He could not shoot off the dribble at all last season. Now he’s seemed to improve his ability to do that, but at the expense of his range.

    regarding Melo sitting: Melo, like most starters around the league, sat for 6 minutes. Sit 6 minutes each half, and you play 36 minutes. There was nothing unusual about D’Antoni’s rotations other than the fact that Stoudemire sat for several minutes longer than usual.

    Good first half. Credit to D’Antoni for scaring the bulls out of their zone by getting Smith and Novak in immediately. They should have gone back to it with some of those lineups we had out there.

  37. max fisher-cohen

    ess-dog:
    I’ve missed most of this.What’s been our best 5 man unit thus far?

    Probably Baron, Shumpert, Smith, Melo, Chandler.

  38. letssee

    max fisher-cohen: Probably Baron, Shumpert, Smith, Melo, Chandler.

    yap, although baron/ lin are pretty even so far. lin played more minutes against rose, where lin played some decent d actually and had only 1 TO. baron looking good though.

  39. jon abbey

    Gamecockerbocker:
    I don’t know if there’s any player in the league who gets brutalized in the lane as much as Lin… not sure if that last one was a foul or not, but in general he gets destroyed in the paint.

    this is absolutely not true, he falls over on his own constantly like he did to end the half. nice half by him, though.

  40. thyrdrail

    lin is always getting knocked down going into the paint. it’s a wonder he can still walk and play!

  41. thyrdrail

    jon abbey: this is absolutely not true, he falls over on his own constantly like he did to end the half. nice half by him, though.

    come on! he gets beaten up by other teams all the time! like by mavs where 2 guys wack his head then he gets his hair pulled back by kidd! and no flagrant on kidd either!!

  42. letssee

    jon abbey: this is absolutely not true, he falls over on his own constantly like he did to end the half. nice half by him, though.

    As much as I want to blindly root for Lin, this is true. He gets roughened up a lot, and gets bruises even visible on TV, but he really does just fall and trip often when he tries to change direction.

  43. nicos

    dogrufus: The coaching staff made him completely rework his shooting form

    apparently they were concerned the shot was going in too often

    This has been puzzling me- when exactly did they rework his shot? They were locked out and couldn’t work with him in the summer and I doubt they spent all that much time on it during the two weeks of training camp. As far as I know that was first mentioned in an article by Tina Cervasio but she was comparing his shot to how he shot in college- not how he shot last year.

  44. nicos

    KJG: Novak played completely fundamental and well, on both ends actually… He’s in there too.

    That was the best effort I’ve seen from him since his first game or two in the rotation.

  45. jon abbey

    thyrdrail: come on! he gets beaten up by other teams all the time! like by mavs where 2 guys wack his head then he gets his hair pulled back by kidd! and no flagrant on kidd either!!

    yes, on that play you’re correct, and he certainly gets fouled his fair share, but he also falls over on his own all the time or with very minimal contact.

  46. Z

    thyrdrail: come on! he gets beaten up by other teams all the time! like by mavs where 2 guys wack his head then he gets his hair pulled back by kidd! and no flagrant on kidd either!!

    Lin does take a beating, but one reason why it appears worse than other guards in the paint is that he doesn’t absorb his blows very well. But that is probably a good thing, because he draws fouls.

  47. Caleb

    As expected.. Knicks look pretty sharp. Focus and effort are there.

    Love seeing Shumpert out there – halftime crew is right that the Knicks need to play fast, like they are tonight, and to do that it really helps having Shumpert raise hell on defense.

  48. Caleb

    I know it’s not bearing results yet, but Amare has looked healthier and more athletic the last few games. Just like he said he would, losing weight! But that 1st half dunk saw him jumping higher than I’ve seen all season. And he doesn’t look like a lumbering oaf any more.

  49. Caleb

    Not sweating yet.. I like the Knicks attacking (Lin’s pas to Melo, then Fields driving the lane).. they’re forcing the Bulls to make plays. Unfortunately for us, the Bulls might be the best team in the league, so they are making them..

  50. dogrufus

    And the 3rd quarter collapse begins… what’s it gonna be this time?

    I’m guessing 38-13

  51. Frank O.

    Is anyone else pissed that chandler says at half that one reason for the bad 3rd quarters is the team waits too long to come out and isn’t properly warm?
    I mean, seriously?
    I mean, this is as basic as it gets. So they need to come out about 7 minutes sooner so they are warm and ready to play, and they haven’t been doing that?
    Fuck

  52. Caleb

    I know we’re getting creamed again, but so far not because we’re playing so badly. This is what MDA was talking about the other day- not having mental toughness. THe last several games, the other team makes a run like this and we crack. Just need to keep it together… make your own luck.

  53. KJG

    KJG:
    It just slips slowly. And then its double digits … Hooooooold!

    No matter what, when we waste possessions, we never get stops either. Complete double whammy

  54. Nick C.

    You know they just gave up a run but it wasn’t on the defense it was three straight blocks on guys in traffic that art it up

  55. letssee

    man, one game that the knicks are actually playing pretty well happens to be against the bulls. bummer.

  56. Gamecockerbocker

    Is it just me or has Lin looked pretty good on defense today… for the most part anyway.

  57. Caleb

    we are being destroyed on the boards, 37-24.. that’s where we’re losing the game. Noah..

  58. Nick C.

    Brian Cronin:
    What a break! Nice to see the Knicks actually get one.

    EDITED TO ADD: And on cue, Chandler misses the gift free throw. Ugh.

    Hey no fair. You can edit and all my autocorrect goofs are stuck. :)

  59. Frank O.

    Z:
    The tandem of the Bulls + the 3rd Quarter could be too much for this Knick team to overcome…

    Just one point down

  60. Frank O.

    Caleb:
    we are being destroyed on the boards, 37-24.. that’s where we’re losing the game. Noah..

    It’s always something. Most days it’s TOs and foul shooting

  61. letssee

    it’d be nice if only one of our wing players decides to be on a slump. jr and shump both sucking isn’t very helpful.

  62. thyrdrail

    Nick C.:
    72-73 when Davis subs in for Lin for all you +/- followers.

    and? what are his +/- for the games when he didnt play well?

  63. Brian Cronin

    Team becomes infinitely more dangerous with a power forward hitting a 17 footer.

    No doubt about it. So long as he shows he can hit it, that makes so much of a difference.

  64. letssee

    man, with melo and stat w/ hot hands, we still choose baron to take a three to close out the quarter? why….?

  65. Brian Cronin

    Remember when Baron Davis made that halfcourt shot at the halftime buzzer in the playoffs against the Mavs awhile back?

    I think he thinks that that is his range.

  66. limpidgimp

    Brian Cronin:
    Remember when Baron Davis made that halfcourt shot at the halftime buzzer in the playoffs against the Mavs awhile back?

    I think he thinks that that is his range.

    LOL

  67. jon abbey

    again, why don’t they play this hard every night? I don’t think Chicago wants to see us in the first round of the playoffs, and I know Deng is out, but somehow we match up well with them.

  68. Brian Cronin

    man, with melo and stat w/ hot hands, we still choose baron to take a three to close out the quarter? why….?

    The operative term is “we.” That was not a group decision, if you catch my drift.

  69. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin:
    Rose is shooting 8 for 19. It is not like he’s having some amazing game.

    Frankly I think Rose is just Stephon Marbury with A+ attitude and work ethic. Great player but not transcendent. What makes the Bulls special is coaching, defense, rebounding, and depth.

  70. Brian Cronin

    again, why don’t they play this hard every night? I don’t think Chicago wants to see us in the first round of the playoffs, and I know Deng is out, but somehow we match up well with them.

    Yeah, the “Big Three” of STAT/Melo/Lin are playing the best D I’ve seen them play in quite awhile. They appear to get up for the Bulls, like how every team gets up to play the Knicks. I think the Knicks should pretend that they’re playing the Knicks every night.

  71. dogrufus

    Amare with a big 3 rebounds… even when he’s great on offense it’s still not enough to compensate for his poor rebounding and D.

  72. Frank O.

    jon abbey:
    again, why don’t they play this hard every night? I don’t think Chicago wants to see us in the first round of the playoffs, and I know Deng is out, but somehow we match up well with them.

    Jinx.

    Sorry. Needed to be said…
    Consider it a passat-soto…:)

  73. Brian Cronin

    The Knicks get the ball to start the fourth quarter a lot because of Chandler, but is it me or do they seem to blow those first fourth quarter possession, like, every game?

    Great finish by Shump!

  74. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin: Yeah, the “Big Three” of STAT/Melo/Lin are playing the best D I’ve seen them play in quite awhile. They appear to get up for the Bulls, like how every team gets up to play the Knicks. I think the Knicks should pretend that they’re playing the Knicks every night.

    Isn’t it nice of the team to “get up” for the Bulls and not “get up” for teams like, say, the Bucks, helpfully ensuring that we’ll come up just short of beating all of them?

  75. BigBlueAL

    Difference in this game will be Rose sitting out only 1 minute in the 2nd half while Melo/Stat/Lin sit a shitload of time while the Bulls pull away.

  76. Gamecockerbocker

    Fucking JR Smith… Please bring back Lin, I’m sick of watching Davis take contested mid range jumpers after putting the ball between his legs 6 times.

  77. Gamecockerbocker

    You know you’re in trouble when Chandler is letting defensive rebounds go by him. Seriously.

  78. letssee

    i’m not too excited about baron-lin-melo-novak-chandler line up against these bulls who are hogging the boards.

  79. dogrufus

    I really wish we had Taj Gibson instead of Amare

    That’s about the 25th consecutive opposing PF I’ve thought that about

    Lin with foul number five, looks like I can turn this one off and get an early start on jerking off tonight

  80. Brian Cronin

    Gibson and Noah are hitting 20 footers like nothing.

    Gibson has a good jumper, but yeah, the Noah swishes are just bad luck. Just like Lin’s brain leaving him for a moment on that loose ball foul. Lordy.

  81. Gamecockerbocker

    Give me a freaking break dude. Lin gets murdered in the paint every game and gets no calls and he’s always in foul trouble because of bullshit loose ball fouls. They’re called loose balls for a reason. 50/50 shot at it, do whatever it takes to get them. Gibson was pushing off just as much as Lin was holding. !!!!

  82. thailandvc

    lol. +1000

    dogrufus:
    I really wish we had Taj Gibson instead of Amare

    That’s about the 25th consecutive opposing PF I’ve thought that about

    Lin with foul number five, looks like I can turn this one off and get an early start on jerking off tonight

  83. cgreene

    Why doesnt MDA see what we see? Why is his instinct to counter bad rebounding w 3 pt shooting? This game is a war. The Bulls are too good on D to leave Novak open. He’s useless. Why is this so hard?

  84. Frank O.

    We’re going to see this group for most of the rest of the way, except maybe Shump gets back in

  85. Brian Cronin

    We’re going to see this group for most of the rest of the way, except maybe Shump gets back in

    Isn’t he in the game? Oops, my bad, yeah, I agree.

  86. Gamecockerbocker

    Lin ends up on his back in the paint (AGAIN!!!!!!!) and the Bulls get another offensive rebound. Give me a fucking break.

  87. KJG

    This is pissing me off. Were hanging on by a phucking thread and the team is completely falling apart right here. What happened to shumpert. Why are we riding baron this long. Enough

  88. Brian Cronin

    Looking at it again, I think STAT was afraid to step on his teammate.

    Also, what does D’Antoni see in the Lin/Davis pairing? It makes absolutely no sense.

  89. cgreene

    Tyson Chandler must be thinking he made the biggest mistake of his career when stuff like that happens.

  90. dogrufus

    20 offensive rebounds in less than 40 minutes

    26 defensive rebounds for us

    bulls have an offensive rebound rate of 46.5%

    4 offensive rebounds for us

    28 defensive rebounds for them

    bulls have a defensive rebound rate of 87.5%

    fuck this team

  91. art vandelay

    Well, in about 6 minutes of game play we are looking at officially being on the outside looking in as Milwaukee won already tonight….d’antoni should just tell that to them right now….see if they wake up or care!

  92. Brian Cronin

    Tyson Chandler must be thinking he made the biggest mistake of his career when stuff like that happens.

    He’s had this look on his face for much of the season (save for Linsanity) where he looks like he’s thinking, “Am I the only real basketball player here?”

  93. jon abbey

    Gamecockerbocker:
    Lin ends up on his back in the paint (AGAIN!!!!!!!) and the Bulls get another offensive rebound. Give me a fucking break.

    they just showed the replay, he fell over again. he is like the opposite of a Weeble.

  94. Frank O.

    Rose has 28 on 27 shots. Fuck you. Rose has ot played well.
    The Knicks are giving up to many extra chances.
    Fuck rose. Tis is being handed to the bulls

  95. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin:
    Looking at it again, I think STAT was afraid to step on his teammate.

    What do you suppose happened on the 19 other offensive rebounds we gave up?

  96. Brian Cronin

    What do you suppose happened on the 19 other offensive rebounds we gave up?

    Oh, don’t get me wrong, they were totally brutalized on the boards all game long. That play just looked particularly odd because STAT didn’t jump when the ball is right in front of him. It seemed so odd I figured he must have a reason.

  97. Nick C.

    Wow MSG replays Melo making a face and smacking his hands after he posts and Landry stands there hesitates and passes to Lin.

  98. Frank O.

    Semele needs to tell fields that line drives at the rim tend to hit e front of the rim. Melo. Loses butler and he jams the o board.
    Lazy bitches

  99. Gamecockerbocker

    Fields. Cannot. Shoot. Why the fuck does he continue to do it? I don’t care how much everyone here loves him, our shooting guard’s lack of shooting ability kills us.

  100. dogrufus

    I don’t even care how close we get because I know that if the Bulls really want to score they can just throw up shots and decide to get every offensive rebound until they make one

  101. Z

    Fields is in the game because he, you know, actually tries to rebound. Basketball is not ALL about shooting.

  102. BigBlueAL

    Maybe the NBA can change the rules before the season is over and allow the Top 10 teams to make the playoffs in each conference instead of 8, maybe then the Knicks could sneak in.

  103. Brian Cronin

    I am torn on Shump and Fields taking outside shots. They can’t hit them and they should drive at all costs, but I guess they occasionally have to take outside shots sometimes, right? Even if they seem to have no chance of ever making them.

  104. cgreene

    That turnover by Lin a couple of possessions ago… you see that’s MDA’s fault. He is imploring the team to push the ball and shoot quickly. That is not appropriate end of game strategy. Slow it down and run your offense and make sure you get a good shot.

  105. dogrufus

    The only thing worse than getting beat by the bulls is hearing the slurping sounds of Breen’s tongue in Rose’s overrated rectum

    They’re winning because they’ve gotten 70% of the fukcing rebounds you conventional wisdom spouting twit

  106. Brian Cronin

    Fields is in the game because he, you know, actually tries to rebound. Basketball is not ALL about shooting.

    Yeah, he hasn’t been beaten for an offense rebound this half (I don’t think in the first half, either).

  107. BigBlueAL

    Z:
    Fields is in the game because he, you know, actually tries to rebound. Basketball is not ALL about shooting.

    You mean like the rebound he had go off his hands right to Rose for another offensive rebound??

  108. jon abbey

    dogrufus:
    The only thing worse than getting beat by the bulls is hearing the slurping sounds of Breen’s tongue in Rose’s overrated rectum

    They’re winning because they’ve gotten 70% of the fukcing rebounds you conventional wisdom spouting twit

    Rose is fucking awesome, you’re an idiot. the dude is still only 23 and already has one MVP, plus he’s carried his team on his back for two seasons now.

  109. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin:
    I am torn on Shump and Fields taking outside shots. They can’t hit them and they should drive at all costs, but I guess they occasionally have to take outside shots sometimes, right? Even if they seem to have no chance of ever making them.

    Good point, this is why Shaq used to take so many

  110. jon abbey

    not that Rose played one of his better games tonight, and he was still easily the best player on the floor.

  111. Bruno Almeida

    jon abbey:
    seven Bulls have more boards than Amare’s measly three.

    this is far beyond pathetic, I don’t care if he scores 1 million points on .600 TS%, if he’s going to be absolutely ridiculous on D and rebounding he needs to sit.

    start Harrelson or anyone, I don’t fucking care, just get Amare out of this team ASAP, I can’t stand his lazy ass attitude anymore.

  112. KJG

    Shot goes up, turn aroumd, find a guy, put a body on him. These clowns sky toward the rim without a clue where its going. Or if ur Amare u stay put…either way ur not boxing out. It’s just so phuckin simple.

  113. art vandelay

    What is this 19-23 crap? Is that a joke or does he not know the Knicks’ current record (and soon to be future record) of 18-24….almost looks like we will come full circle….

    were once 8-15, will soon be 18-25

  114. thyrdrail

    LIN GOT 15 PTS, 8 ASSISTS, 3 STEALS, 6/6 FREES, 3TOS. DONT U GUYS THINK TH’S PRETTY GOOD??

  115. New Guy

    Would like to hear Ruruland defend Melo throwing his toys out of the crib bc Landry didn’t pass him the ball.

  116. Frank O.

    Your best player shots 29 times and has 32 points, you lose that game most nights. But if you get 22 o boards, it doesn’t matter

  117. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    Rose is a great player. He’s just not having an amazing game tonight, and Breen is acting like he is. It is annoying.

    but it’s a little like Iverson when the Sixers made the Finals, Rose is supposed to take a billion shots on this team. his shooting percentage isn’t as important as it is for most other players.

    4 point game, somehow.

  118. BigBlueAL

    At least tomorrow night there is no Knicks game and MLB Network will be showing the Yankees-Red Sox Spring Training game.

  119. Brian Cronin

    but it’s a little like Iverson when the Sixers made the Finals, Rose is supposed to take a billion shots on this team. his shooting percentage isn’t as important as it is for most other players.

    4 point game, somehow.

    Oh, I totally agree that he’s doing what he has to do. He’s having a good game. Breen is acting like this is vintage Jordan. That’s what is irritating me.

  120. ruruland

    New Guy:
    Would like to hear Ruruland defend Melo throwing his toys out of the crib bc Landry didn’t pass him the ball.

    Melo is on the block creating double teams and seams. He wants the ball and he signed here to get the ball in that situation. He had good position.

  121. Z

    Brian Cronin:
    Rose is a great player. He’s just not having an amazing game tonight, and Breen is acting like he is. It is annoying.

    Breen? I’m listening to Mike Tirico (sp?) and Hubie Brown. Is there another broadcast going on? (if so, I’m switching over for overtime)

  122. Bruno Almeida

    jon abbey:
    when do we all officially start rooting to get into the top 5 in the lottery?

    if not for Linsanity that might very well be possible.

    there’s nothing wrong about losing to Chicago on a road game, but this team always finds the most pathetic and irritating way to lose game after game.

    I don’t care, trade those overrated bitches for whoever takes their lazy asses and get somebody who wants to play defense, bottom out and start rebuilding again.

    this team will never win a playoff series against a decent team.

  123. Frank O.

    Z: Breen? I’m listening to Mike Tirico (sp?) and Hubie Brown. Is there another broadcast going on? (if so, I’m switching over for overtime)

    He meant tirico

  124. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL:
    Knicks need 3pters and they dont have 1 decent 3pt shooter on the floor.

    consistently terrible coaching. I swear to god they win AT LEAST 1-2 of the games in this losing streak with competent coaching.

  125. Brian Cronin

    Knicks need 3pters and they dont have 1 decent 3pt shooter on the floor.

    He plays Novak for useless minutes and then doesn’t play him now. Bizarre.

  126. KJG

    Haha… I’m not really laughing. Carmelo should clearly pump fake one time when he’s don low. Wtf… Why is rushing that … That’s a guarantee foul on Noah.

  127. dogrufus

    jon abbey: Rose is fucking awesome, you’re an idiot. the dude is still only 23 and already has one MVP, plus he’s carried his team on his back for two seasons now.

    Yes, perfectly reasonable to insult me personally for thinking he’ss overrated. I find that things like that tend to be a more reliable marker of idiocy than one’s opinion on Derrick Rose.

    He’s a shitty MVP and wasn’t one of the 3 best players in the league last year. Durant is as young and has been better than Rose for years. Iverson has an undeserved MVP too because he benefited from great coaching and defense while scoring a lot of PPG on mediocre efficiency. Noah/Deng/Boozer/Gibson/Thibodeau have carried that team on their backs as much as Rose has. Rose just gets all the credit because of the PPG bias. He’s about as good a scorer and floor general as Marbury. That’s not an insult, Marbury was fairly good at that stuff.

    I’ll believe the hype about Rose when he has a playoff over 50% TS.

  128. cgreene

    Please tell me that you saw MDA’s face after that possession where we shot rushed 3′s. Thibodeau is calling timeouts with :50 left and his team up 9 to make sure that they understand exactly what they are supposed to. MDA nothing. It’s like he literally wasn’t even coaching at the end. He had given up.

  129. Brian Cronin

    Same here, Jon. The problem with Breen is that the major teams like the Bulls, Breen knows them so well from the national games that he just loooves the teams like OKC, Chicago, Miami, etc.

  130. Bruno Almeida

    that last Gibson basket is a summary of our season so far.

    pathetic effort, dumb players, even dumber coaching.

  131. Frank O.

    jon abbey:
    Breen and Clyde on MSG, I never watch the national telecasts if MSG also has it.

    League pass is blacked out here in dc when the game goes national.

  132. jon abbey

    dogrufus: Yes, perfectly reasonable to insult me personally for thinking he’ss overrated.I find that things like that tend to be a more reliable marker of idiocy than one’s opinion on Derrick Rose.

    He’s a shitty MVP and wasn’t one of the 3 best players in the league last year.Durant is as young and has been better than Rose for years.Iverson has an undeserved MVP too because he benefited from great coaching and defense while scoring a lot of PPG on mediocre efficiency.Noah/Deng/Boozer/Gibson/Thibodeau have carried that team on their backs as much as Rose has.Rose just gets all the credit because of the PPG bias.He’s about as good a scorer and floor general as Marbury.That’s not an insult, Marbury was fairly good at that stuff.

    I’ll believe the hype about Rose when he has a playoff over 50% TS.

    yep, all he did was carry his team to the Conference Finals at 22 and the best record in the league in consecutive years. you’re way off on the Marbury comparison.

  133. art vandelay

    It is almost as if D’antoni believes his system will just win games…and that once the games start he doesn’t really have to coach anymore, ever make adjustments, actually observe and react to what occurs on the court…nah, why bother? SSOL will take over and overcome any obstacle!!! All he does is argue with the refs!!!

  134. Bruno Almeida

    I think I’ll just turn off league pass, watching Nash play is sickening when you have such a dumb team.

  135. dogrufus

    jon abbey:
    when do we all officially start rooting to get into the top 5 in the lottery?

    Sadly it’s looking like the main lasting effect of Linsanity will be ruining our chance of keeping our pick this year while we make the playoffs.

  136. limpidgimp

    Bruno Almeida: there’s nothing wrong about losing to Chicago on a road game, but this team always finds the most pathetic and irritating way to lose game after game.

    I waited all day to watch this game. Fuck me.

  137. thailandvc

    he’s not pro really Melo. He’s just contrarian. “I’m smart because I don’t follow the crowd.” I like to control the broader narrative in this forum. Meta-contrarian, intellectual hipster stuff.

    You can trash Melo, just don’t horn in on his territory as resident basketball “guru.”

    New Guy:
    Would like to hear Ruruland defend Melo throwing his toys out of the crib bc Landry didn’t pass him the ball.

  138. Brian Cronin

    For what it’s worth, arguing with the refs is a good strategy. All the great coaches do it, because they know that arguing actually does influence the refs (it shouldn’t, but it does).

  139. Jake S.

    art vandelay:
    It is almost as if D’antoni believes his system will just win games…and that once the games start he doesn’t really have to coach anymore, ever make adjustments, actually observe and react to what occurs on the court…nah, why bother? SSOL will take over and overcome any obstacle!!! All he does is argue with the refs!!!

    It amazes me how bad their third quarters are. The opposing coaches seem to work him like a speed bag. Does he make any adjustments? Does he anticipate the opposing team making adjustment?

  140. Frank O.

    Again, on a regular night if your best guy gets 32 on 29 shots, you lose.
    But with 22 o boards, too many second chances.
    Rose played well down the stretch, but the Knicks got lazy in the boards. They were spectating while the Bulls crashed.
    Great teams win on effort.

  141. Kikuchiyo

    Last game of the season is against the Bobcats. Wouldn’t it be too perfect for this team to need a win against Charlotte to get into the Playoffs…and then lose badly?

    (I know. Cue Jim Mora quote.)

  142. Sugarjesus

    cgreene:
    MDA has to lose his job.He has given up.

    (puts head in hands and weeps) It is so true. MDA must go. If only because he makes it even worse.

  143. jon abbey

    art vandelay:
    It is almost as if D’antoni believes his system will just win games…and that once the games start he doesn’t really have to coach anymore, ever make adjustments, actually observe and react to what occurs on the court…nah, why bother? SSOL will take over and overcome any obstacle!!! All he does is argue with the refs!!!

    he doesn’t really run anything like SSOL anymore, does he? just such poor coaching on every level, not that it’s an easy situation, but he is terrible.

  144. jon abbey

    thailandvc:
    he’s not pro really Melo. He’s just contrarian. “I’m smart because I don’t follow the crowd.”I like to control the broader narrative in this forum. Meta-contrarian, intellectual hipster stuff.

    You can trash Melo, just don’t horn in on his territory as resident basketball “guru.”

    I actually am kind of starting to think hoolahoop was right when he said ruruland was a paid PR guy.

  145. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, the Knicks don’t actually run SSOL. They haven’t for years. They run a similar offense, but not SSOL. Note that they rarely push the ball.

  146. Bruno Almeida

    dogrufus: Yes, perfectly reasonable to insult me personally for thinking he’ss overrated.I find that things like that tend to be a more reliable marker of idiocy than one’s opinion on Derrick Rose.

    He’s a shitty MVP and wasn’t one of the 3 best players in the league last year.Durant is as young and has been better than Rose for years.Iverson has an undeserved MVP too because he benefited from great coaching and defense while scoring a lot of PPG on mediocre efficiency.Noah/Deng/Boozer/Gibson/Thibodeau have carried that team on their backs as much as Rose has.Rose just gets all the credit because of the PPG bias.He’s about as good a scorer and floor general as Marbury.That’s not an insult, Marbury was fairly good at that stuff.

    I’ll believe the hype about Rose when he has a playoff over 50% TS.

    man, I’m a big fan of TS% as a measure of a player’s value, but there are special cases where shooting percentage just isn’t important.

    he takes a lot of shots and a lot of tough shots because his team absolutely needs him to… I’d rather have Durant than him too, and LeBron should have been last year’s MVP imo, but Rose is an incredible player.

    if you put him together with another really good scorer (like LeBron + Wade) his TS% would be much higher, because he wouldn’t have to force so much.

    and you’re comparing one of the smartest and most hard working guys in the entire NBA to a guy that eats vaseline? he’s MUCH, MUCH smarter than Marbury ever was.

  147. jon abbey

    I’m too pissed to post anymore for now, sorry for the people I just lashed out at. AAAAAARGGGHGHHHHHH!

  148. BigBlueAL

    I will say this looking for any glimmer of hope, the schedule is much, much easier the rest of this month.

  149. dogrufus

    jon abbey: yep, all he did was carry his team to the Conference Finals at 22 and the best record in the league in consecutive years.

    Look at their stats, Rose and Marbury are pretty much the same player.

    Rose didn’t carry shit. He got drafted to an incredibly good team for a #1 overall pick and had every possible advantage in his favor. He’s what Marbury if not for his personality flaws and poor work ethic. Make an actual argument to refute this instead of stamping your feet and insisting Rose is amazing. The Bulls have been an average offensive team. Unless you think their PG is anchoring their consistently league-best defense and rebounding, he’s not the main cause of their success. Their record without Rose this season would support that contention. And his universally shitty playoff performances are the reason they’ve UNDERperformed there, so it’s perverse to credit him for carrying the to the ECF. When you’re the best team in the league two years in a row you should make it PAST the ECF.

  150. ruruland

    jon abbey: I actually am kind of starting to think hoolahoop was right when he said ruruland was a paid PR guy.

    C’mon with this.

    I’m as disappointed as anybody in this team’s effort. Melo’s certainly a part of that problem.

    The chemistry and energy of this team is horrible. All the pieces are there but there’s a togetherness that’s clearly missing.

    I can’t defend the lack of energy with Melo. I’m not sure what’s going on with him. There’s no excuse for it. Unfortunately, it’s an issue with a lot of guys on this team.

    I’m not nearly as confident that it will turn around as I was just a few days ago.

  151. Bruno Almeida

    @358

    sir, you REALLY underrate basketball IQ.

    what separates Kobe Bryant from a guy who was an even better athlete probably on his prime, like Tracy McGrady?

    it’s what’s inside the head.

  152. KJG

    Doug:
    WELP, TIME FOR THE DAILY POSTGAME RITUAL MASS SUICIDE

    *shoots self*

    This blog has the arc of the walking dead on amc…humanity starts to dwindle… People start killing people. And the rest of the bloggers are lifeless zombies. Little hope…

    As for the game , I don’t like to say its one player because it usually never is. They all f up throughout the game. You can’t just pick one statistic or blame one guy… Well, I guess u can but…. Ya know, stat had a bad rebounding game but there are 4 other guys capable of crashing the boards out there… They all could show more hustle.

  153. dogrufus

    jon abbey:
    I’m too pissed to post anymore for now, sorry for the people I just lashed out at. AAAAAARGGGHGHHHHHH!

    It’s okay, I feel your pain brother

  154. thailandvc

    haha. credible alternative expl.

    I’ve actually seen him disagree with someone who said essentially the same thing he just said. Why? because how dare that guy write lengthy analysis and use “advance” stats. that’s his job. lol.

    jon abbey: I actually am kind of starting to think hoolahoop was right when he said ruruland was a paid PR guy.

  155. Will the Thrill

    I wanted the team to win, but I knew that if they lost, there would be a much bigger chance that they would fire D’antoni and trade Melo or Amare. That is much more important.

  156. thyrdrail

    LIN GOT 15 PTS, 8 ASSISTS, 3 STEALS, 6/6 FREES, 3TOS. DONT U GUYS THINK THAT’S PRETTY GOOD FOR A ROOKIE??

  157. dogrufus

    KJG: Ya know, stat had a bad rebounding game but there are 4 other guys capable of crashing the boards out there… They all could show more hustle.

    Carmelo Anthony: 6 defensive rebounds
    Tyson Chandler: 8 defensive rebounds
    STATue: 2 defensive rebounds

    Yeah, Amar’e's frontcourt mates just needed to pull their weight tonight, that was the problem.

  158. art vandelay

    No, he doesn’t run anything approaching pure SSOL…but whatever it is you want to call this hodge-podge of a system that is in place…pnr to death, some melo iso’s sprinkled in, with a side of jr smith volleyball at midcourt, a botched alley oop for dessert…

    whatever you want to call it, his coaching style is so not read nad react…I have supported d’antoni throughout but I really think enough is enough….I was able to take his horrendous coaching last year in the playoffs when the team didn’t know to foul at end of one of the boston games as well as other assorted coaching gaffes, but this year proved to me that in crunch time, he is a hindrance to have as a head coach….

    bill simmons likes to say coaches (with a few exceptions like phil jackson, popovich, etc.) often do more harm than good….only a few rare ones actually add a lot of values….and the goal should be to find one who doesn’t hurt the team…d’antoni has outright been hurting the team this year with his passive style…

    and yes, arguing can be a good strategy….he shouldn’t be eviscerated because he argues some….that is his job….but he does it at the expense it seems of actually calling appropriate time outs in spots and reading and reacting.

  159. ruruland

    thailandvc:
    haha. credible alternative expl.

    I’ve actually seen him disagree with someone who said essentially the same thing he just said. Why? because how dare that guy write lengthy analysis and use “advance” stats. that’s his job. lol.

    What are you talking about man?

    What’s with the personal attacks?

  160. dogrufus

    thyrdrail:
    LIN GOT 15 PTS, 8 ASSISTS, 3 STEALS, 6/6 FREES, 3TOS. DONT U GUYS THINK THAT’S PRETTY GOOD FOR A ROOKIE??

    HE’S NOT A ROOKIE

  161. jon abbey

    dogrufus: Look at their stats, they’re pretty much the same player.

    basketball stats are so context-driven, this is a great example of why. you’re an idiot for parroting the Rose-is-overrated crowd and focusing too much on numbers instead of understanding his importance to the game.

    anyway, I’ll defer to Simmons on this, he’s a top 3 player in the game, top 5 at the lowest. arguing between them (besides LeBron) is really splitting hairs and deciding on context.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2

    Marbury was never anywhere near a top 5 player in the game, no matter what numbers he put up in Phoenix.

  162. ruruland

    thyrdrail:
    LIN GOT 15 PTS, 8 ASSISTS, 3 STEALS, 6/6 FREES, 3TOS. DONT U GUYS THINK THAT’S PRETTY GOOD FOR A ROOKIE??

    It was solid considering who he was going up against. The question is how does he involve the rest of his team? I’m not exactly sure how these pieces work together.

    There’s dysfunction on so many levels. The team has no identity.

    Sure, the team had identity before the guys came back– but such little talent it would surely get exposed pretty badly over time.

  163. Frank

    jon abbey: he doesn’t really run anything like SSOL anymore, does he? just such poor coaching on every level, not that it’s an easy situation, but he is terrible.

    Not to defend MDA – he doesn’t really deserve it at this point – but if we just held them under TWENTY offensive boards this game might have been a win. Maybe Harrellson would’ve gotten a couple extra boards, but who do you take out? Chandler? Amare who basically carried the offense in the 3rd quarter (and should’ve gotten the ball more in the 4th)?

    I’m really not into moral victories anymore, but they really competed hard in this game. Chicago has the best record in the NBA for a reason, and we played them hard all the way to the end. We really just need to follow this up with a W on Wednesday against Portland, and then we have a pretty big home and home with Indy this weekend.

    As bad as the previous 4 games were, I thought there were some positives in this game – Amare finding his jumper, pretty solid defensive effort (if not rebounding) from Melo and Amare, pretty solid game from Lin against Derrick Rose who basically went all Iverson on us (that wasn’t a compliment). If we play like this going forward, I think we will be ok. The question is, can we bring this kind of effort every night, and add to it some FREAKING DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS?

  164. daJudge

    I hate the way this team plays and I really hate this team. It’s not just the losses. They are classic underachievers. No attention to detail. The stars are dying red giants. Incredibly overrated, by myself included. The coaching staff is flat out awful. I’ve watched every game this year and feel most of the time was an abject waste. Time to read and check out the Tournament. I’ve said this many times, many years. Sorry for the negativity, but I’m done for now. Over and out boys.

  165. ruruland

    KnicksFanInVA:
    You guys think MDA will be gone by tomorrow morning? Or does he survive the week?

    Sooner the better. Have to shake things up right now. Personally, I think MDA has made it pretty clear he wants changes or he wants to go.

    There’s an obvious conflict between he and Melo.

  166. BigBlueAL

    KnicksFanInVA:
    You guys think MDA will be gone by tomorrow morning? Or does he survive the week?

    He will survive the season. Knicks should win next 2 games to calm the waters a bit and the schedule is alot easier rest of this month.

  167. dogrufus

    Kikuchiyo:
    Last game of the season is against the Bobcats. Wouldn’t it be too perfect for this team to need a win against Charlotte to get into the Playoffs…and then lose badly?

    (I know. Cue Jim Mora quote.)

    Would it even matter? If we’re so shitty that we’re in that situation we’ll just get blown out every playoff game anyway

  168. nicos

    I’m not sure if Harrellson put on weight or something while he was injured but he’s been really bad since he’s come back. I can understand the shot being off because of the wrist but his defensive rotations have positively Amar’esque. And another game where he was invisible on the defensive glass. They said Jeffries will be probably be back on Wednesday- if not how about trying Jerome Jordan?

  169. KJG

    dogrufus: Carmelo Anthony:6 defensive rebounds
    Tyson Chandler:8 defensive rebounds
    STATue:2 defensive rebounds

    Yeah, Amar’e’s frontcourt mates just needed to pull their weight tonight, that was the problem.

    Ur missing my point. I understand the frustration with stat… U think I like when he doesn’t even jump…. Guards can crash too ya know. Teams win, not one guy who gets 8 rebounds. Is tyson Nd carmelo allergic to getting 10 and 8 respectively. Is 8 and 6 their cap? I used stat as an example. Take it easy. The team loses…

  170. thyrdrail

    COME ON GUYS. DID ANYONE ACTUALLY THINK KNICKS WERE GOING TO WIN AGAINST BULLS? 99.99% OF SPORTS WRITERS AND KNICKS FANS PREDICTED A BLOW OUT BY BULLS! BUT KNICKS LOST ONLY BY 5 POINTS!! THAT’S WAAAAY BETTER THAN WHEN THEY LOST AGAINST HEAT BY 12 POINTS!! I’M GLAD THEY KEPT THE LOSS IN SINGLE DIGITS AND BY ONLY 5!! ALSO THEY IMPROVED ON TURNOVERS AND THEY SHOT BETTER. BUT IT’S THE REBOUNDS THAT KILLED US.

    WELL, I GUESS WITH KNICKS IF IT’S NOT ONE THING THAN IT’S ANOTHER! LOL. THATS WHY IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET EVERYTHING PERFECT TO BECOME ELITE!

  171. ruruland

    Frank: Not to defend MDA – he doesn’t really deserve it at this point – but if we just held them under TWENTY offensive boards this game might have been a win.Maybe Harrellson would’ve gotten a couple extra boards, but who do you take out?Chandler? Amare who basically carried the offense in the 3rd quarter (and should’ve gotten the ball more in the 4th)?

    I’m really not into moral victories anymore, but they really competed hard in this game.Chicago has the best record in the NBA for a reason, and we played them hard all the way to the end.We really just need to follow this up with a W on Wednesday against Portland, and then we have a pretty big home and home with Indy this weekend.

    As bad as the previous 4 games were, I thought there were some positives in this game – Amare finding his jumper, pretty solid defensive effort (if not rebounding) from Melo and Amare, pretty solid game from Lin against Derrick Rose who basically went all Iverson on us (that wasn’t a compliment). If we play like this going forward, I think we will be ok. The question is, can we bring this kind of effort every night, and add to it some FREAKING DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS?

    There have been positives each of the 6 game losing streak. But what’s evident above all else is that the opposing team exerts its will to win over the Knicks.

    That, to me, stems from a lack of identity and cohesiveness.

    I’ve seen Melo and Amar’e play much harder than this previous tonight, going back in their careers. But it’s not just those two guys — it’s everyone. The lack of multiple effort plays is contagious.

  172. dogrufus

    thyrdrail: HE’S AN ALMOST ROOKIE. WE ALL KNOW HIS STORY BY NOW.

    YEAH, HE HEROICALLY LED US TO A FEW MEANINGLESS WINS AGAINST BAD TEAMS THAT WILL ENSURE THAT WE DON’T SUCK ENOUGH TO KEEP OUR TOP 5 PROTECTED FIRST ROUNDER THIS YEAR

  173. jon abbey

    Frank: Not to defend MDA – he doesn’t really deserve it at this point – but if we just held them under TWENTY offensive boards this game might have been a win.Maybe Harrellson would’ve gotten a couple extra boards, but who do you take out?Chandler? Amare who basically carried the offense in the 3rd quarter (and should’ve gotten the ball more in the 4th)?

    I’m really not into moral victories anymore, but they really competed hard in this game.Chicago has the best record in the NBA for a reason, and we played them hard all the way to the end.We really just need to follow this up with a W on Wednesday against Portland, and then we have a pretty big home and home with Indy this weekend.

    As bad as the previous 4 games were, I thought there were some positives in this game – Amare finding his jumper, pretty solid defensive effort (if not rebounding) from Melo and Amare, pretty solid game from Lin against Derrick Rose who basically went all Iverson on us (that wasn’t a compliment). If we play like this going forward, I think we will be ok. The question is, can we bring this kind of effort every night, and add to it some FREAKING DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS?

    Amare was as hot as he’s been offensively in a while at the end of the third, then D’Antoni sat him for the first five minutes of the 4th.

  174. KnicksFanInVA

    Games like this make me appreciate the extra possessions that Jeffries provides. I miss his suicidal drawn charges.

  175. dogrufus

    thyrdrail:
    COME ON GUYS. DID ANYONE ACTUALLY THINK KNICKS WERE GOING TO WIN AGAINST BULLS? 99.99% OF SPORTS WRITERS AND KNICKS FANS PREDICTED A BLOW OUT BY BULLS! BUT KNICKS LOST ONLY BY 5 POINTS!! THAT’S WAAAAY BETTER THAN WHEN THEY LOST AGAINST HEAT BY 12 POINTS!! I’M GLAD THEY KEPT THE LOSS IN SINGLE DIGITS AND BY ONLY 5!! ALSO THEY IMPROVED ON TURNOVERS AND THEY SHOT BETTER. BUT IT’S THE REBOUNDS THAT KILLED US.

    WELL, I GUESS WITH KNICKS IF IT’S NOT ONE THING THAN IT’S ANOTHER! LOL. THATS WHY IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET EVERYTHING PERFECT TO BECOME ELITE!

    YEAH IT’S SO AWESOME THE WAY THEY CONSISTENTLY PUT FORTH JUST ENOUGH OF A SHITTY EFFORT TO LOSE BY 5 EVERY NIGHT

  176. jon abbey

    thyrdrail:
    THATS WHY IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET EVERYTHING PERFECT TO BECOME ELITE!

    elite is one thing, losing to the Bucks without their two best players in a crucial game is another.

  177. Brian Cronin

    thyrdrail, quit it with the all caps.

    And a general “Quit it” to the various personal attacks, folks. Arguing with each other is cool, but come on, keep it civil.

  178. ruruland

    KJG: Ur missing my point.I understand the frustration with stat… U think I like when he doesn’t even jump…. Guards can crash too ya know. Teams win, not one guy who gets 8 rebounds.Is tyson Nd carmelo allergic to getting 10 and 8 respectively.Is 8 and 6 their cap? I used stat as an example.Take it easy.The team loses…

    Look, Chandler got outworked, too. So did Fields. That Butler dunk was on him.

    I’ve seen what Melo does when he plays in a defensive culture.. This reminds me of his pre-Chauncey days a little bit, expect he doesn’t know how and where to fit into the offense.

    A change to a defensive coach who instills a defensive culture is what the team needs.

    Offensively, MDA is not exploiting the talent and not diversifying the offense to tailor around his players.

    The offense can come up — you don’t need this system to generate offense with this team. You need a defensive coach.

  179. dogrufus

    jon abbey: Amare was as hot as he’s been offensively in a while at the end of the third, then D’Antoni sat him for the first five minutes of the 4th.

    Do you think D’Antoni realizes that even when Amar’e’ is hot on offense he’s still a huge net negative because he’s a zero on D and the glass?

  180. thyrdrail

    dogrufus: YEAH, HE HEROICALLY LED US TO A FEW MEANINGLESS WINS AGAINST BAD TEAMS THAT WILL ENSURE THAT WE DON’T SUCK ENOUGH TO KEEP OUR TOP 5 PROTECTED FIRST ROUNDER THIS YEAR

    Lakers and Mavs are bad? Tell that to them!!

    And if it weren’t for Lin we wouldn’t even be sitting here wasting time moping out another Knicks loss cuz they’d be soooo irrelevant and out of playoff contention ages ago!!

  181. Frank

    ruruland: There have been positives each of the 6 game losing streak. But what’s evident above all else is that the opposing team exerts its will to win over the Knicks.

    I’ve seen Melo and Amar’e play much harder than this previous tonight, going back in their careers. But it’s not just those two guys — it’s everyone. The lack of multiple effort plays is contagious.

    Fair enough – in that case I think Shumpert needs more minutes. No one other than maybe Chandler plays harder than that dude when he’s on the floor.

    Re: Amare – I thought this might be the best defense I’ve ever seen him play – all up until the freaking defensive rebound. It’s also probably one of his top 5 offensive games of the year, if not top 2. But 3 rebounds is basically the reason we lost this game. If he just gets 7 we probably win.

    Re: Melo – overall I thought he was fine tonight, but fine is not what we need from him. What is up with his stupid fouls though?

    Meanwhile – how horrible has JR Smith been? I was all for his signing but he has really been awful.

  182. jon abbey

    dogrufus: Do you think D’Antoni realizes that even when Amar’e’ is hot on offense he’s still a huge net negative because he’s a zero on D and the glass?

    maybe, but it’s not like they were getting any boards with him out and he actually tried on D tonight.

  183. BigBlueAL

    Last night Isola was harping on Calipari as next Knicks head coach. If that happens we will all be praying for D’Antoni to return lol

  184. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin:
    thyrdrail, quit it with the all caps.

    And a general “Quit it” to the various personal attacks, folks. Arguing with each other is cool, but come on, keep it civil.

    But… but we’re all so fucking ANGRY!

    :D

  185. dogrufus

    thyrdrail: Lakers and Mavs are bad? Tell that to them!!

    And if it weren’t for Lin we wouldn’t even be sitting here wasting time moping out another Knicks loss cuz they’d be soooo irrelevant and out of playoff contention ages ago!!

    Which is something I would prefer instead of them wasting my time with yet another shot of false hope leading directly to crushing disappointment!

  186. Z

    KnicksFanInVA:
    You guys think MDA will be gone by tomorrow morning? Or does he survive the week?

    I know there is much deeper analysis to be had in the pages of this site and others, but D’Antoni’s system looked really good there for two weeks when Carmelo and Amar’e were replaced by Bill Walker and Jared Jeffries. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but for whatever reason the system can’t support the two main guys. Every hypothesis has been tested and dismissed over the the past 12 months (need a C, need a PG, need practice, need a long off season to heal, need a defensive coordinator, need a new GM, need more luxury boxes at the arena, etc…) the only thing left to try seems to be a new coach. But who??

  187. johnno

    Disappointing ending but it’s hard for me to really work up any anger about this game. The effort was there — especially on defense (13 blocked shots!?!) They lost a close game on the road against the best — and hottest — team in the league. It happens. They got killed on the boards, but the Bulls kill practically everyone on the boards. They are the best rebounding and best defensive team in the league. By the way, I thought that Lin played a very good game — 15 points on 11 shots, 8 assists, 3 steals and he blocked 3 of the league MVP’s shots. Overall, he actually played a much more “efficient” game than Rose, who somehow managed to get 6 of his shots blocked.

  188. jon abbey

    yeah, JR Smith’s massive ball of suck has really killed us. I also was expecting big things from him, certainly not this.

  189. dogrufus

    jon abbey: maybe, but it’s not like they were getting any boards with him out and he actually tried on D tonight.

    I really tried to pick up chicks at the bar last night, yet I still went home with Rosy Redpalm. In pro sports it takes more than just trying to do stuff sometimes.

  190. ruruland

    Frank: Fair enough – in that case I think Shumpert needs more minutes. No one other than maybe Chandler plays harder than that dude when he’s on the floor.

    Re: Amare – I thought this might be the best defense I’ve ever seen him play – all up until the freaking defensive rebound.It’s also probably one of his top 5 offensive games of the year, if not top 2.But 3 rebounds is basically the reason we lost this game. If he just gets 7 we probably win.

    Re: Melo – overall I thought he was fine tonight, but fine is not what we need from him.What is up with his stupid fouls though?

    Meanwhile – how horrible has JR Smith been? I was all for his signing but he has really been awful.

    It’s confounding to be sure.

    You want to analyze every little thing when you lose but at the end of the night what’s missing is a will to win. There’s no blueprint for that, and there’s no trust between guys on who’s going to do what.

    Ama’re has improved defensively to be sure. The team defense has improved. But a lot of guys got outworked tonight on loose balls– that defined the game– and that defines a loser.

    I just don’t think the culture is in place to turn it around in that regard.

  191. BigBlueAL

    Z: I know there is much deeper analysis to be had in the pages of this site and others, but D’Antoni’s system looked really good there for two weeks when Carmelo and Amar’e were replaced by Bill Walker and Jared Jeffries. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but for whatever reason the system can’t support the two main guys. Every hypothesis has been tested and dismissed over the the past 12 months (need a C, need a PG, need practice, need a long off season to heal, need a defensive coordinator, need a new GM, need more luxury boxes at the arena, etc…) the only thing left to try seems to be a new coach. But who??

    I would love it if Phil Jackson had the balls to coach this team.

    Problem is right now the Knicks have an interim GM and a lame duck head coach. They need to figure out who will be the president/GM full-time then hire a head coach.

  192. KnicksFanInVA

    I know its been said here before, but as much as want MDA gone, I sure as hell don’t want Woodson. It would be Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with Carmelo in place of Joe Johnson.

  193. Gideon Zaga

    I feel your pain brother. I’m glad the time has finally come, I remember calling for this during the first loss of the season to GS. The guy pays no attention to detail.

    art vandelay:
    No, he doesn’t run anything approaching pure SSOL…but whatever it is you want to call this hodge-podge of a system that is in place…pnr to death, some melo iso’s sprinkled in, with a side of jr smith volleyball at midcourt, a botched alley oop for dessert…

    whatever you want to call it, his coaching style is so not read nad react…I have supported d’antoni throughout but I really think enough is enough….I was able to take his horrendous coaching last year in the playoffs when the team didn’t know to foul at end of one of the boston games as well as other assorted coaching gaffes, but this year proved to me that in crunch time, he is a hindrance to have as a head coach….

    bill simmons likes to say coaches (with a few exceptions like phil jackson, popovich, etc.) often do more harm than good….only a few rare ones actually add a lot of values….and the goal should be to find one who doesn’t hurt the team…d’antoni has outright been hurting the team this year with his passive style…

    and yes, arguing can be a good strategy….he shouldn’t be eviscerated because he argues some….that is his job….but he does it at the expense it seems of actually calling appropriate time outs in spots and reading and reacting.

  194. Z-man

    This was a tolerable loss, only because it is on the back end of a losing streak is it magnified. Considering it is also a back-to-back with a flight in between, I can live with it.

    The Bulls are a well-oiled machine that knows how to give maximum effort on every play. The Knicks had very few “open” shots. The Bulls had plenty. The offensive rebounding is a product of both effort and great coaching. Breen mentioned that defense only ends after you regain possession. That was hopefully what we learned tonight, that just causing misses is not good enough if you want to compete with the big boys.

    It was also disheartening to see every open midrange look by the Bulls converted.

  195. ruruland

    Z: I know there is much deeper analysis to be had in the pages of this site and others, but D’Antoni’s system looked really good there for two weeks when Carmelo and Amar’e were replaced by Bill Walker and Jared Jeffries. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but for whatever reason the system can’t support the two main guys. Every hypothesis has been tested and dismissed over the the past 12 months (need a C, need a PG, need practice, need a long off season to heal, need a defensive coordinator, need a new GM, need more luxury boxes at the arena, etc…) the only thing left to try seems to be a new coach. But who??

    Actually, from an efficiency perspective, the Knicks have been better with all the guys back, especially when you consider the level of opponent.

    But they aren’t playing with the same will to win as that team did. And that, to me, is what’s so hard to explain.

    As we saw tonight with the Bulls and their extra efforts for loose balls, that will to win is contagious. Amar’e and Melo have had that will before, but right now, not many guys are showing it consistently.

  196. limpidgimp

    yo guys, chill with the ALL CAPS please. makes your posts hard on the eyes.

    As for the Lin discussion, he had some great individual plays (block and steal against rose, etc). and the stats tonight are decent, but it doesn’t really matter in the end if he’s not clutch in the fourth and doesn’t get the team to win. That turnover at the crucial time made him look like what he is, a rookie.

    And that’s the second time turned it over recently throwing a super high pass to Amar’e. Lin and Amar’e don’t seem to play that well together, but the passes were not even horizontally off but too high to be catchable.

  197. thyrdrail

    jon abbey:
    yeah, JR Smith’s massive ball of suck has really killed us. I also was expecting big things from him, certainly not this.

    cuz jr has other “balls” stuck in his mind. the femme fatale type “balls”. he cant wait to go home to them so his mind has not been in the games. :D

  198. jon abbey

    thyrdrail: Lakers and Mavs are bad? Tell that to them!!

    they’re a combined 15-27 on the road this year, not as impressive wins as it seemed at the time.

  199. Jake S.

    KnicksFanInVA:
    I know its been said here before, but as much as want MDA gone, I sure as hell don’t want Woodson. It would be Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with Carmelo in place of Joe Johnson.

    That sounds mighty fine right now.

  200. Brian Cronin

    It was also disheartening to see every open midrange look by the Bulls converted.

    Yeah, and when they’d brick threes, the ball would ricochet right to a Bulls player. Both events (which happened more than once) were quite aggravating.

  201. KJG

    ruruland: It’s confounding to be sure.

    You want to analyze every little thing when you lose but at the end of the night what’s missing is a will to win. There’s no blueprint for that, and there’s no trust between guys on who’s going to do what.

    Ama’re has improved defensively to be sure. The team defense has improved. But a lot of guys got outworked tonight on loose balls– that defined the game– and that defines a loser.

    I just don’t think the culture is in place to turn it around in that regard.

    I agree with that. It’s just not a consistent effort from the entire team. I know its cliche to continue to harp on effort but that’s it.

  202. ruruland

    KnicksFanInVA:
    I know its been said here before, but as much as want MDA gone, I sure as hell don’t want Woodson. It would be Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with Carmelo in place of Joe Johnson.

    Agreed. Right now Melo isn’t playing any better than Joe did, So I’m with you 100 percent.

  203. thyrdrail

    limpidgimp:
    yo guys, chill with the ALL CAPS please. makes your posts hard on the eyes.

    As for the Lin discussion, he had some great individual plays (block and steal against rose, etc). and the stats tonight are decent, but it doesn’t really matter in the end if he’s not clutch in the fourth and doesn’t get the team to win. That turnover at the crucial time made him look like what he is, a rookie.

    And that’s the second time turned it over recently throwing a super high pass to Amar’e. Lin and Amar’e don’t seem to play that well together, but the passes were not even horizontally off but too high to be catchable.

    dude, its the offensive rebounds that killed us. not one little turnover. 22 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS BY BULLS!!!!! how many points is that there???

  204. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    yeah, JR Smith’s massive ball of suck has really killed us. I also was expecting big things from him, certainly not this.

    JR Smith is another guy that really plays well when the momentum and energy of the team are in the right place.

    The pace of the offense, the tempo and the overall energy just arne’t there for him to be the kind of impact player he’s capable of being.

  205. Jake S.

    I know Mike Woodson isn’t Red Holzman or anything, but those Hawks teams were consistently over .500. Can’t hurt to give him the last 24 games to see how he does.

  206. Brian Cronin

    I know its been said here before, but as much as want MDA gone, I sure as hell don’t want Woodson. It would be Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with Carmelo in place of Joe Johnson.

    Coach Woodson is my biggest nightmare. Fire D’Antoni only if there is actually an upgrade out there. Woodson is not it.

  207. ruruland

    Jake S.:
    Wait, Amare has improved defensively?

    Yes, the whole team has a done a better of job of covering each other up.

    It’s not great, probably not good, but it’s certainly passable.

  208. dogrufus

    jon abbey: basketball stats are so context-driven, this is a great example of why. you’re an idiot for parroting the Rose-is-overrated crowd and focusing too much on numbers instead of understanding his importance to the game.

    anyway, I’ll defer to Simmons on this, he’s a top 3 player in the game, top 5 at the lowest. arguing between them (besides LeBron) is really splitting hairs and deciding on context.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2

    Marbury was never anywhere near a top 5 player in the game, no matter what numbers he put up in Phoenix.

    What Rose-is-overrated crowd? Everybody lines up to suck his cock. The only crowd when it comes to Rose is the massive crowd doing the overrrating.

    I’m tickled that you denigrate statistical analysis as being overly context-driven. Gee, know what’s a whole lot more context-driven than stats? Accolades based on team success and top 5 lists of sportswriters! That stuff is based ENTIRELY on bullshit context and narratives. Simmons parrots conventional wisdom- Do you believe that Melo is also as good as he says he is? Because we’re learning nightly painful lessons on how wrong he is about that.

    Jesus, Bill Simmons ranks Horry as a top 100 player of all time. Talk about context-driven. When you look at actual objective evidence, it’s prety clear Love, Howard, LBJ, Wade, Durant, Paul, and maybe Deron/Dirk are better

    Do you really think that if Marbury was drafted by, say, the Indiana Pacers who hit a 1% chance at a top pick, and grew up around a strong young defensive core of Jermaine O’Neal and Artest, and if he had a good work ethic and team concept like Rose does, that he wouldn’t be considered at least a top 5-10 player? Or if he wasn’t a…

  209. BigBlueAL

    Jake S.:
    I know Mike Woodson isn’t Red Holzman or anything, but those Hawks teams were consistently over .500. Can’t hurt to give him the last 24 games to see how he does.

    Mike Woodson coached the Hawks for 6 seasons. They finished over .500 twice.

  210. Jake S.

    Brian Cronin: Coach Woodson is my biggest nightmare. Fire D’Antoni only if there is actually an upgrade out there. Woodson is not it.

    I hear you. But short of the Knicks ripping off some huge run, there’s no reason to think he’s going to be their head coach next year. And if he does pull it off, isn’t he at least worth a look? There’s no magic bullet out there, Phil Jackson included.

  211. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: Coach Woodson is my biggest nightmare. Fire D’Antoni only if there is actually an upgrade out there. Woodson is not it.

    How big of an offer would you make JVG right now? Sloan is a little too old school, a little too much disciplined in a very specific kind of offense to be the right guy.

    Outside of Melo, the pieces aren’t there for the triangle, either.

  212. dogrufus

    Jake S.:
    I know Mike Woodson isn’t Red Holzman or anything, but those Hawks teams were consistently over .500. Can’t hurt to give him the last 24 games to see how he does.

    They were also consistently below average or below in defense when he coached them, and I doubt he’s a better offensive coach than one-trick pony MDA

  213. ephus

    For every bad play by Lin (like the horrible pass over Stat’s head), he does something that impresses (like the great ball fake followed by a smooth jumper from 19 feet along the wing).

    Best sign tonight was that Amar’e finally looked strong on the offensive end. I would love to see Stat and Melo run the PnR more often. They did it once during the first half, but I did not see them ever run it again.

    JR Smith has been AWFUL since the first ten minutes of his first game (when he won me over). Shumpert has no jumper, but his defense is amazing.

    Just grit your teeth and smile through the rest of this year. I pray that Phil Jackson will be patrolling the sideline next year. If not Phil, then could we see the return of JVG?

  214. Jake S.

    BigBlueAL: Mike Woodson coached the Hawks for 6 seasons.They finished over .500 twice.

    Thought his record was better than that. Still, if I remember correctly (and I probably don’t), his teams won more games season by season. I just think that firing D’Antoni seems like their last chance at salvaging the season. The guy’s a mensch, but he just looks like he’s had it with this team. And vice versa.

  215. nicos

    Amar’e's defense tonight was actually pretty good and he’s been much better in the pnr since San Antonio. His rebounding however…

    And as much as I like Chandler, he’s had trouble with really active bigs- Noah, Varejao, and Humphries have all given him trouble on the glass.

  216. dogrufus

    ruruland: How big of an offer would you make JVG right now? Sloan is a little too old school, a little too much disciplined in a very specific kind of offense to be the right guy.

    Outside of Melo, the pieces aren’t there for the triangle, either.

    We can’t have JVG because of Jimmy Dolan’s ego. The same reason we couldn’t have a fair Melo trade, a top 3 draft pick in the last 20 years, or pretty much any other nice things

  217. JC Knickfan

    Interesting Lin had 3 blocks – he tip a lot Rose dribbles, but Knicks just couldn’t get lose ball. He was 4-8 after fake out jumper, but 0-3 rest game missing 2 pretty easy shot at end. During 9 wins of linsanity he pretty much would make those.

    Knicks shot better % FG and %FT in must cases you win. But when PF get 3 RB and 1 foul you know he doing shit on defense. Box your got dam guy out. If crash board make sure going over the back biatches. The lack fundamental basketball is extremely had watch.

    Rose did not have good game. 32pt on 29 shot, Shot 41.3% FG 67% FT, 7 assists, 6 Reb, 0 steal, 0 blocks and 4 TO

    Lin missing layout and jumper inside foul line end up having bad shoot night.
    15pt on 11 shots, FG 37%, 100% FT, 8 assists, 1 Reb, 3 steal, 3 block and 3 TO.

  218. thyrdrail

    i dont think knicks should fire d’antoni mid-season. that will just destroy the team’s morale and drive even more. he needs to stick around for rest of season and keep pushing for more improvements. the knicks definitely played much better tonight and put in more effort. i mean, come on, they lost by only 5 points to the BULLS!!! if they had limited the bulls rebounds, they couldve won!! only 5 PTS!!

  219. Brian Cronin

    I hear you. But short of the Knicks ripping off some huge run, there’s no reason to think he’s going to be their head coach next year. And if he does pull it off, isn’t he at least worth a look? There’s no magic bullet out there, Phil Jackson included.

    Interim guys are surprisingly kept on more than you’d think. I don’t want there even to be a chance of Woodson being the head coach. I’d sooner hire Herb Williams, as at least there you know there’s no chance of him actually keeping the job.

  220. BigBlueAL

    ruruland: How big of an offer would you make JVG right now? Sloan is a little too old school, a little too much disciplined in a very specific kind of offense to be the right guy.

    Outside of Melo, the pieces aren’t there for the triangle, either.

    Unfortunately as long as Dolan is owner JVG will never coach this team again.

  221. limpidgimp

    jon abbey:
    yeah, JR Smith’s massive ball of suck has really killed us. I also was expecting big things from him, certainly not this.

    Yeah, I hope he snaps out of it. I think he can be a monster if it’s clicking for him.

    What worries me is that it’s not even clear what his role is supposed to be out there. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it looks to me like he doesn’t know either. Is he supposed to be the second-option wing man on the PnR? I can’t recall one instance in which Davis passed it to him bc when Smith was open on the wing after running a PnR. Whenever Smith touches the ball, there’s no set play for him, like setting a screen for him to shoot the 3, like Novak sometimes gets. When Smith touches the ball, it’s often in situations in which shooting it (like he wants to) would mean forcing it. I just don’t know what he is supposed to do out there. He’s got great hustle on the defensive end, as we saw tonight, but on the offensive end, his role looks really vague.

  222. JC Knickfan

    nicos:
    Amar’e’s defense tonight was actually pretty good and he’s been much better in the pnr since San Antonio.His rebounding however…

    And as much as I like Chandler, he’s had trouble with really active bigs- Noah, Varejao, and Humphries have all given him trouble on the glass.

    No Amare defense was not that good. 1 foul is a telling tale. Defensive Rebound, hence it’s part playing good defense.

  223. thyrdrail

    JC Knickfan:
    Interesting Lin had 3 blocks – he tip a lot Rose dribbles, but Knicks just couldn’t get lose ball. He was 4-8 after fake out jumper, but 0-3 rest game missing 2 pretty easy shot at end. During 9 wins of linsanity he pretty much would make those.

    Knicks shot better % FG and %FT in must cases you win. But when PF get 3 RB and 1 foul you know he doing shit on defense. Box your got dam guy out. If crash board make sure going over the back biatches. The lack fundamental basketball is extremely had watch.

    Rose did not have good game.32pt on 29 shot, Shot 41.3% FG67% FT,7 assists, 6 Reb, 0 steal,0 blocks and 4 TO

    Lin missing layout and jumper inside foul line end up havingbad shoot night.
    15pt on 11 shots, FG 37%,100% FT, 8 assists, 1 Reb, 3 steal, 3 block and 3 TO.

    yes! and how many full nba games has rose played vs. how many full nba games has lin played? lin will only get better. he may not be a rose, but he will be better than average.

  224. nicos

    And I want no part of JVG. Sloan, sign me up. My biggest fear is they give Woodson the job, they play marginally better and then keep him rather than going out and getting a better coach.

  225. ruruland

    limpidgimp: Yeah, I hope he snaps out of it. I think he can be a monster if it’s clicking for him.

    What worries me is that it’s not even clear what his role is supposed to be out there. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it looks to me like he doesn’t know either. Is he supposed to be the second-option wing man on the PnR? I can’t recall one instance in which Davis passed it to him bc when Smith was open on the wing after running a PnR. Whenever Smith touches the ball, there’s no set play for him, like setting a screen for him to shoot the 3, like Novak sometimes gets. When Smith touches the ball, it’s often in situations in which shooting it (like he wants to) would mean forcing it. I just don’t know what he is supposed to do out there. He’s got great hustle on the defensive end, as we saw tonight, but on the offensive end, his role looks really vague.

    There’s a lot of guys out there like that.

  226. art vandelay

    @428:

    Doesn’t JVG hate Dolan, and vice versa? Didn’t they have a major falling out? I thought Dolan purportedly viewed JVG’s bogus resignation as being burned out and wanting to spend time with family in 2001 as a form of quitting on the team. Likewise, I recall JVG pretty much not being fond of knick ownership at the time either, which factored into his leaving (as well as presciently seeing the writing on the wall as far as the Knicks being a playoff contender after the Ewing trade).

    I can’t see JVG ever returning unless they offered him an ungodly sum of money (like highest annual salary in NBA history), and maybe not even then….I think the animosity runs deep.

  227. Jake S.

    thyrdrail:
    i dont think knicks should fire d’antoni mid-season. that will just destroy the team’s morale and drive even more. he needs to stick around for rest of season and keep pushing for more improvements. the knicks definitely played much better tonight and put in more effort. i mean, come on, they lost by only 5 points to the BULLS!!! if they had limited the bulls rebounds, they couldve won!! only 5 PTS!!

    This team looks dead in the water. SOMETHING’s got to give. They’re not going to turn around and ship Melo out, much as many of us would welcome the idea, so a coaching change seems like their only viable option.

  228. ruruland

    nicos:
    And I want no part of JVG.Sloan, sign me up.My biggest fear is they give Woodson the job, they play marginally better and then keep him rather than going out and getting a better coach.

    Sloan’s offense is not a fit for this personnel at all.

    He also employs a defensive strategy that essentially amounts to flopping and hacking.

    He’s not a good fit here.

    A truly defensive minded coach who is willing to diversify the offense is the only hope.

  229. Brian Cronin

    And I want no part of JVG. Sloan, sign me up. My biggest fear is they give Woodson the job, they play marginally better and then keep him rather than going out and getting a better coach.

    Egg-fucking-zactly. My biggest nightmare. Guaranteed mediocrity.

  230. BigBlueAL

    nicos:
    And I want no part of JVG.Sloan, sign me up.My biggest fear is they give Woodson the job, they play marginally better and then keep him rather than going out and getting a better coach.

    Re-hiring JVG would be the happiest day of my life lol

  231. ruruland

    Jake S.: This team looks dead in the water. SOMETHING’s got to give. They’re not going to turn around and ship Melo out, much as many of us would welcome the idea, so a coaching change seems like their only viable option.

    I know this has been brought up here before but look at the change in Zach Randolph’s game when he goes to a team with a polar opposite culture…

    Honestly, and this from an afar perspective, but it seems that the same team-wide issues have been there with MDA with each iteration.

  232. nicos

    JC Knickfan: No Amare defense was not that good. 1 foul is a telling tale. Defensive Rebound, hence it’s part playing good defense.

    He had one really bad play on Noah where Noah breezed right by him and a really bad play in transition where he had his back to the play and gave up a lay-up. Other than those and few rotations that could have been quicker he was okay. He did a really good job following Rose into the lane on pnr’s forcing either bad shots or tough passes and when Rose pulled up, he actually challenged the shot- something he hasn’t been doing. Obviously, rebounding was an issue but some of that was a function of him actually being fairly active as a helper. If he plays like that the rest of the season it’d be a huge boost for the team.

  233. Bruno Almeida

    no Mike Woodson, for god’s sake, he’s part of this sucky team right now.

    I’d let D’Antoni finish the year than go after Skiles, this team needs a heavy disciplinarian.

  234. max fisher-cohen

    BigBlueAL: He will survive the season.Knicks should win next 2 games to calm the waters a bit and the schedule is alot easier rest of this month.

    Season gets easier (how could it not?) but not easy. It’s nowhere near as easy as the cake we were served (and refused to eat) before the all-star break. Toronto has Bargnani back, and Milwaukee always beats us. Then there are five games against good teams: 2x indiana, philly, orlando and atlanta. If we play like we did tonight, there’s potential to win a majority of those games.

    Also, I was only casually watching tonight (cooking @ the same time), but it seemed like the knicks did a lot less switching on defense.

  235. ruruland

    Bruno Almeida:
    no Mike Woodson, for god’s sake, he’s part of this sucky team right now.

    I’d let D’Antoni finish the year than go after Skiles, this team needs a heavy disciplinarian.

    That would be sweet. Unfortunately, every team burns out on his message after that first year.

  236. nicos

    ruruland:
    A truly defensive minded coach who is willing to diversify the offense is the only hope.

    Who would you suggest? This team has more parts on offense than JVG can manage- they’d certainly be better defensively but he’s never run anything but a post-based offense. Not what we need.

  237. ruruland

    max fisher-cohen: Season gets easier (how could it not?) but not easy. It’s nowhere near as easy as the cake we were served (and refused to eat) before the all-star break. Toronto has Bargnani back, and Milwaukee always beats us. Then there are five games against good teams: 2x indiana, philly, orlando and atlanta. If we play like we did tonight, there’s potential to win a majority of those games.

    Also, I was only casually watching tonight (cooking @ the same time),

    but it seemed like the knicks did a lot less switching on defense.

    Yep that’s been the trend recently. pnr defense much better as a result. Cut the second chance points down in half and you get a really good defensive game.

  238. Brian Cronin

    D’Antoni’s only real hope is convincing Dolan it is Melo’s fault. You can tell that Melo realizes this and that is why he and D’Antoni are now in this weird sort of “one of us is leaving, who will it be?” situation. It probably will be D’Antoni before Melo. Either way, it is quite toxic to have your coach and your highest paid player at odds like this. But rarely do you have a situation like this where you don’t know for sure who management is going to side with. D’Antoni has to hope that Linsanity has convinced Dolan that the Knicks can win without Melo. That hope is likely for naught, though.

  239. Loathing

    So….no on Skiles, Woodson, and JVG. Don’t suppose we could try out Larry Brown again? *ducks*

  240. ruruland

    nicos: Who would you suggest?This team has more parts on offense than JVG can manage- they’d certainly be better defensively but he’s never run anything but a post-based offense.Not what we need.

    Are you certain a post-based offense was simply based on the old personnel?

    JVG could recognize that Melo is really good in the post, particularly creating double teams that allow for penetration for Lin.

    I don’t know enough about who’s out there to make any suggestions, outside of the typical names.

  241. formido

    So, I didn’t watch the game, but I read the AP recap. It made it sound like Rose had a great game at Lin’s expense, but since his true shooting percentage was worse than Lin’s and Lin had 3 blocks and 3 steals in the box score I was curious what really happened. Interesting to read the comments here, which are generally pretty fair-minded. I contend that the AP has a vendetta against Lin, potentially due to “one of their own” getting canned a couple weeks ago. Perhaps I’m too much of a conspiracist. Read the recap and tell me if it seems like a fair characterization of the game.

    I started to get the idea that the AP is biased when they claimed that Kyrie Irving played Lin “about even” after Lin had one of the most efficient games an NBA point guard has had this season against him.

  242. ruruland

    nicos: Who would you suggest?This team has more parts on offense than JVG can manage- they’d certainly be better defensively but he’s never run anything but a post-based offense.Not what we need.

    Are you certain a post-based offense was simply based on the old personnel?

    JVG could recognize that Melo is really good in the post, particularly creating double teams that allow for penetration for Lin and others.

    I don’t know enough about who’s out there to make any suggestions, outside of the typical names.

  243. Bruno Almeida

    ruruland: That would be sweet. Unfortunately, every team burns out on his message after that first year.

    Yeah, it does, I don’t know if he’ll ever be a title-winning coach (much like Doug Collins always wears his welcome too), but he would get the most talented roster he’s ever had and exactly the type of team that needs discipline, hustle and a defensive system.

    I don’t know if Milwaukee would let him go (specially if they make the playoffs with Bogut injured once again), but he could change the culture in New York.

  244. limpidgimp

    thyrdrail: dude, its the offensive rebounds that killed us. not one little turnover. 22 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS BY BULLS!!!!! how many points is that there???

    You’re right about the boards. I just wasn’t in the mood to hear about any Knick as playing well tonight, because this game was winnable. Really frustrating.

  245. Bruno Almeida

    however, every day it becomes clearer that we lost our big chance to get a really good coach – Adelman.

    even Kevin Love is at least trying to play defense with him.

  246. BigBlueAL

    HELL NO to Scott Skiles. Most overrated coach by far. Man has never won anything but has built this rep as some kind of tough disciplinary coach but he doesnt win much so who cares how tough he is.

  247. Brian Cronin

    Perhaps I’m too much of a conspiracist.

    Yep. The AP story was perhaps a bit too harsh on Lin, but nothing even slightly suggesting anything personal. If anything, it was a typical article you read about star players who score a lot of points. The media will make it sound like they had an amazing game if they score a lot of points, especially if they do them on pretty plays like Rose did tonight.

  248. BigBlueAL

    I dont know why there are Knick fans who hate JVG. I hated Riley because he truly did quit on the Knicks but right now I look at Riley as a freaking saint because of how good his Knicks teams were. Ditto JVG. Also they were both great to listen to so if JVG ever returns his press conferences and interviews would be must see TV lol

  249. jon abbey

    god, I hate Van Gundy almost as much as I hate Mark Jackson. in a way, I would welcome that hiring (which would never happen) just so I could (at least temporarily) stop caring about this shitty organization.

    the Derrick Rose argument is one that I’d be happy to get into if we had a forum with separate threads and could hash it out over time, but in this format where everything is basically washed away every 12 hours, it doesn’t make much sense to get into it IMO.

  250. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    god, I hate Van Gundy almost as much as I hate Mark Jackson. in a way, I would welcome that hiring (which would never happen) just so I could (at least temporarily) stop caring about this shitty organization.

    the Derrick Rose argument is one that I’d be happy to get into if we had a forum with separate threads and could hash it out over time, but in this format where everything is basically washed away every 12 hours, it doesn’t make much sense to get into it IMO.

    You would stop caring for the team if they re-hire the last coach who was actually successful with the team??

  251. jon abbey

    heh, and I like Skiles just like I always liked Carlisle. anyway, there’s got to be someone better than D’Antoni.

  252. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    heh, and I like Skiles just like I always liked Carlisle. anyway, there’s got to be someone better than D’Antoni.

    LOL we definitely have a difference of opinion in our preferred coaches :-)

  253. Brian Cronin

    I’m all for seeing who is on the market next season (perhaps the rumored “Godfather offer” for Carlisle turns out to be true), but there is no one better than D’Antoni available right now, so I’d stick with him.

  254. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL: You would stop caring for the team if they re-hire the last coach who was actually successful with the team??

    he had one fairly lucky playoff run, if Houston’s jumper bounces out, it’s another first round exit. he’s one of the worst offensive coaches I’ve ever seen, just never liked him.

  255. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: he had one fairly lucky playoff run, if Houston’s jumper bounces out, it’s another first round exit. he’s one of the worst offensive coaches I’ve ever seen, just never liked him.

    He followed up the “lucky” playoff run with another run to the Conference Finals. His first 5 postseasons with the Knicks he won at least 1 playoff series in each season.

  256. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL: He followed up the “lucky” playoff run with another run to the Conference Finals.His first 5 postseasons with the Knicks he won at least 1 playoff series in each season.

    yeah, with a loaded roster, but it’s true I underestimated his run here.

    but after that, he didn’t win a single playoff series in four years with Houston, despite having Yao and McGrady. again, why do you think he hasn’t gotten a job in the last five years?

  257. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Brian Cronin:
    I’m all for seeing who is on the market next season (perhaps the rumored “Godfather offer” for Carlisle turns out to be true), but there is no one better than D’Antoni available right now, so I’d stick with him.

    i agree only because he showed he can coach the knicks primadonnas when his back is against the wall. IMO he really used the team well today showed fire and shook up the players to keep los bulls off balance.

  258. Brian Cronin

    why do you think he hasn’t gotten a job in the last five years?

    You are way off base if you think Van Gundy wants to coach and isn’t getting jobs. He doesn’t want to coach. if Van Gundy were available to coach, he would get a job.

  259. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: yeah, with a loaded roster, but it’s true I underestimated his run here.

    but after that, he didn’t win a single playoff series in four years with Houston, despite having Yao and McGrady. again, why do you think he hasn’t gotten a job in the last five years?

    From everything Ive read he hasnt gotten another job because he doesnt want to coach again yet. Has said he is waiting for his daughter to finish high-school and I believe she is in 11th grade I believe. The day he makes it known he is ready to coach again I guarantee there will be plenty of opportunities for him especially with him attending the SLOAN conferences and kind of re-inventing himself as a coach who accepts statistical analysis but still has his own ideas.

  260. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    Brian Cronin:
    I’m a big JVG fan but I dunno if this roster would fit his skills very well. He’d sure love Chandler, though! Shump, too.

    Agreed but he was good running a sloe tempo team so melo would fit in perfectly so would lin cause he would love to change tempos with his gaurds running the floor. imo he is in love with landry he fits JVG mold perfectly.

  261. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin: You are way off base if you think Van Gundy wants to coach and isn’t getting jobs. He doesn’t want to coach. if Van Gundy were available to coach, he would get a job.

    hmm, not so sure about that. some quick Googling shows that he tried to push himself for the Lakers job this year. he may not be available for any job, but I think there are also a bunch of teams that have passed on him since he left Houston in 2007 that he would have been happy to coach.

  262. jon abbey

    I think he burned a lot of bridges while in Houston, with the league and the refs. this one-liner from his Wiki page is interesting:

    “On May 12, 2009, on ESPN writer Bill Simmons’ podcast, Van Gundy expressed his desire to eventually return to coaching, stating he would consider being an assistant coach.”

  263. Z

    Brian Cronin: I’d sooner hire Herb Williams, as at least there you know there’s no chance of him actually keeping the job.

    Herb is actually a great idea. He has no system, no style, no philosophy. It would be the closest to watching this team play in a vacuum as you can get.

  264. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    jon abbey: he had one fairly lucky playoff run, if Houston’s jumper bounces out, it’s another first round exit. he’s one of the worst offensive coaches I’ve ever seen, just never liked him.

    one thing i must say is the coach we have on the bench coach woodson i think would do a bang up job with the knicks. he knows how to use everybody to their highest potntial and he is a great defensive coach. and JVG was a decent offensive coach he did well with what he had.

  265. Brian Cronin

    As for Houston, he coached there four years, had winning records in three of the four seasons (the losing season was the year both Yao and T-Mac missed much of the season) and while yes, they lost in the first round each of the three times…

    A. It was just three times
    B. Two of the losses came against teams that went to the Conference Finals and the third was the eventual Western Conference champions (and two of those three series went to 7 games).
    C. His Houston teams were far from loaded:

    Check out their lineups for the playoffs.

    Season 1

    Jim Jackson
    Cuttino Mobley
    Steve Francis
    Yao Ming
    Kelvin Cato

    SEASON 2

    Tracy McGrady
    David Wesley
    Ryan Bowen
    Bob Sura
    Yao Ming

    SEASON 3

    Rafer Alston
    Tracy McGrady
    Yao Ming
    Shane Battier
    Chuck Hayes

    That last team is the only one that flat out looks good and they lost in 7 games to a good Utah team.

  266. Brian Cronin

    But yes, it is fair to say that he might want to coach now, but only for the perfect job. Like the Lakers gig. He is not coming back to coach the Kings, the Raptors or the Warriors, ya know? But if he wanted to, he could.

  267. jon abbey

    hmm, maybe I’m being too harsh and maybe Van Gundy is like the hoops version of Bobby Valentine, a guy who says so many stupid things publicly, it makes you forget that he was pretty good at coaching/managing.

  268. Z

    art vandelay:
    @428:

    Dolan purportedly viewed JVG’s bogus resignation as being burned out and wanting to spend time with family in 2001 as a form of quitting…

    What, Dolan didn’t buy the classic “my two good friends were killed in a terrorist attack” excuse?

    (besides, if I remember right, Van G didn’t want to spend more time withhis family… He wanted to spend more time studying magic)

  269. nicos

    Hmm, I can see the recap on the front page but it comes up page not found. I need me some Jim Cavan!

  270. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: D’Antoni’s only real hope is convincing Dolan it is Melo’s fault. You can tell that Melo realizes this and that is why he and D’Antoni are now in this weird sort of “one of us is leaving, who will it be?” situation. It probably will be D’Antoni before Melo. Either way, it is quite toxic to have your coach and your highest paid player at odds like this. But rarely do you have a situation like this where you don’t know for sure who management is going to side with. D’Antoni has to hope that Linsanity has convinced Dolan that the Knicks can win without Melo. That hope is likely for naught, though.

    Sage analysis. That’s exactly what I see, especially with the things MDA has and hasnt said

  271. bobneptune

    BigBlueAL: Unfortunately as long as Dolan is owner JVG will never coach this team again.

    didn’t mr. jvg quit on the knicks in the past???

  272. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    ruruland: Sage analysis. That’s exactly what I see, especially with the things MDA has and hasnt said

    i agree with Cronin. one thing i might like to add even Frazier is sick of melo complaining when he doesn’t get the ball. i think we all know its not melo i think we all know its just that melo is acting like a primadonna. if he just played the game and looked to win instead of being the hero then the knicks would be that much better.

    i still think MDA was coaching with his hands behind his back. i think if he actually played the type of players and had complete control of whos on the floor this would be a winning season.

  273. thyrdrail

    formido:
    So, I didn’t watch the game, but I read the AP recap. It made it sound like Rose had a great game at Lin’s expense, but since his true shooting percentage was worse than Lin’s and Lin had 3 blocks and 3 steals in the box score I was curious what really happened. Interesting to read the comments here, which are generally pretty fair-minded. I contend that the AP has a vendetta against Lin, potentially due to “one of their own” getting canned a couple weeks ago. Perhaps I’m too much of a conspiracist. Read the recap and tell me if it seems like a fair characterization of the game.

    I started to get the idea that the AP is biased when they claimed that Kyrie Irving played Lin “about even” after Lin had one of the most efficient games an NBA point guard has had this season against him.

    lin played really well especially against top seeded chicago bulls and #1 elite pg derrick rose especially for his 20th full game of his nba career. he played what everyone is expecting him to play as a pg for knicks – in mid teens in scoring, high assists, low to’s. i really dont see how anyone can say lin didnt play well. outside of saying he didnt play as good as all top pgs in the league and score 40 points and have 20 assists and 30 rebounds or whatever. there will always be doubters about him especially when the knicks lose.

  274. bluemax

    We actually outplayed the bulls on offense pretty badly.

    TS% .570 Knicks
    TS% .524 Bulls

    But the bulls had almost as many offensive rebounds as we had defensive rebounds 22 to 29. pretty incredible. Even if we manage a plain horrible rebounding performance (say 5 more RB) we win this game. BTW same thing happenned with the bucks. We lost that game because we got destroyed on the boards to the tune of 17 offensive rb.

    How can a team with chandler/amare/melo/fields get beat so badly on the boards, this is a good rebounding team on paper.For example, korver tonight had 3 offensive RB. Amare had 3 defensive RB. gibson had 8 offense, noah had 4! Even Melo had only 6 defensive.

    We are talking about basic stuff here. the effort seemed to be there.
    so what’s wrong?

  275. limpidgimp

    bluemax: How can a team with chandler/amare/melo/fields get beat so badly on the boards, this is a good rebounding team on paper.

    I’m not able at the moment to rewatch the game, but isn’t the silly double-PG squad that D’Antoni puts out there out-rebounded a lot? And Novak gives up many offensive boards.

  276. 2FOR18

    Bruno Almeida: man, I’m a big fan of TS% as a measure of a player’s value, but there are special cases where shooting percentage just isn’t important.he takes a lot of shots and a lot of tough shots because his team absolutely needs him to… I’d rather have Durant than him too, and LeBron should have been last year’s MVP imo, but Rose is an incredible player.if you put him together with another really good scorer (like LeBron + Wade) his TS% would be much higher, because he wouldn’t have to force so much.and you’re comparing one of the smartest and most hard working guys in the entire NBA to a guy that eats vaseline? he’s MUCH, MUCH smarter than Marbury ever was.

    +100
    Advanced stats are useful in a vacuum, but anyone who denies Rose’s greatness is an idiot.

  277. 2FOR18

    Frank: Not to defend MDA – he doesn’t really deserve it at this point – but if we just held them under TWENTY offensive boards this game might have been a win. Maybe Harrellson would’ve gotten a couple extra boards, but who do you take out? Chandler? Amare who basically carried the offense in the 3rd quarter (and should’ve gotten the ball more in the 4th)? I’m really not into moral victories anymore, but they really competed hard in this game. Chicago has the best record in the NBA for a reason, and we played them hard all the way to the end. We really just need to follow this up with a W on Wednesday against Portland, and then we have a pretty big home and home with Indy this weekend. As bad as the previous 4 games were, I thought there were some positives in this game – Amare finding his jumper, pretty solid defensive effort (if not rebounding) from Melo and Amare, pretty solid game from Lin against Derrick Rose who basically went all Iverson on us (that wasn’t a compliment). If we play like this going forward, I think we will be ok. The question is, can we bring this kind of effort every night, and add to it some FREAKING DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS?

    Chi. was missing 2 of their starters and their back up pg. There is nothing approaching a moral victory here.

  278. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Look, Chandler got outworked, too. So did Fields. That Butler dunk was on him.I’ve seen what Melo does when he plays in a defensive culture.. This reminds me of his pre-Chauncey days a little bit, expect he doesn’t know how and where to fit into the offense. A change to a defensive coach who instills a defensive culture is what the team needs. Offensively, MDA is not exploiting the talent and not diversifying the offense to tailor around his players. The offense can come up — you don’t need this system to generate offense with this team. You need a defensive coach.

    Are you feakin kidding me!!?? After 3 months of you going on about how great Melo will be in this offense once the team “gels” and “practices”, how they will be scoring 120 a night once they are all healthy, now you are saying they need a defensive coach for Melo to wake up?? Really?

  279. Brian Cronin

    hmm, maybe I’m being too harsh and maybe Van Gundy is like the hoops version of Bobby Valentine, a guy who says so many stupid things publicly, it makes you forget that he was pretty good at coaching/managing.

    Don’t get me wrong, you’re accurate in noting that he is a bad offensive coach. He certainly was a bad offensive coach. He was just such a great defensive coach that he’ll always have a job in the NBA if he wants one. And his greatness as a defensive coach is practically legendary – the only JVG coached team not in the top 6 in the NBA in defensive efficiency was the Knick team he quit on, and I dunno where they ranked when he quit. The best examples of his defensive coaching were when he took a Houston team that had missed the playoffs in 2003 and took them from 14th in DE to 4th, with the same exact roster that Rudy T had and 2000-01, when he took a Knick roster with Glen Rice and a decrepit LJ in his rotation and somehow got them 3rd in the NBA in DE with a DE as good as any they ever had under Riley (it was tied with the best DE of Riley’s Knicks – the 1993-94 team – it was better than the DE of every other Riley-led team). His 1999 team had the best DE of any Knick team since the glory days of Frazier/Monroe/Bradley/DeBusschere/Reed squad.

    Note that if you ever make it to an NBA Finals in your career you are basically set for life as far as always getting a job in the future. If you look at NBA coaches that have made it to an NBA Finals in the past 15 years, the only ones not coaching teams right now are Phil Jackson, Pat RIley, Larry Bird, Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan and Jeff Van Gundy. And all of them are not coaching out of their own volition. The trick is that once you have a certain reputation, it just doesn’t make sense to come back to coach unless the situation is ideal. Jerry Sloan is a perfect example. He could coach nearly any team he wants to in the NBA, he just doesn’t want to.

Comments are closed.