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Sunday, April 20, 2014

2012 Game Thread: New York v. Portland

You know how “must-win game” is one of the most mis-used phrases in all of sports? That is true tonight, as well. This is not a “must-win” game. The Knicks can lose tonight and still make the playoffs. However, with Portland playing so poorly and having just gotten beaten badly last night and the Knicks in the midst of a six-game losing streak, if this is not a must-win game, it is certainly at least a “really would be nice to win this game” game.

This, of course, is overshadowed by the fact that this is the first game in the post-D’Antoni era for the New York Knicks. Mike Woodson takes over as the coach tonight. Let’s see what kind of offense he runs!

Use this thread for your in-game thoughts.

302 comments on “2012 Game Thread: New York v. Portland

  1. Ben R

    We all need to be pissed at Jeremy Lin, if he hadn’t come along and helped us win all those games we’d have a real shot at keeping our pick this year. You blew it Jeremy.

  2. Brian Cronin

    Someone mentioned awhile back about looking over our old threads, and I was doing that the other day and you know what? If I could spend time here talking the Larry Brown Knicks, I can spend time here talking about these Knicks.

  3. Bruno Almeida

    if we hire Calipari I will be so fucking incredibly mad.

    Ben R:
    We all need to be pissed at Jeremy Lin, if he hadn’t come along and helped us win all those games we’d have a real shot at keeping our pick this year. You blew it Jeremy.

    lol that’s true, sad how a season that started with so much promise has come down to this

  4. LMNYKFAN4LIFE

    players held accountable, things changed = Melo posted up, Amare posted up, JR Smith benched, Shumpert benched on bad shot selections, Fields benched on bad defensive plays, Novak benched bad defense, and Baron Davis starting pg. These are things being changed and how he will hold them accountable. Not one thing changed with amare or melo accountability smh

  5. Will the Thrill

    D’antoni wanted Deron for Carmelo so he was fired? WOW do you know much better we would be with Deron? This is embarrassing, infuriating, and just down-right sad. At least we got Woodson, AND WE HAVE CARMELO! WOOOHOOO!

  6. Juany8

    I’m honestly hoping the Knicks trade Melo at this point, this situation has become totally toxic and since I don’t think Melo suddenly got worse in his 9th year in the league, I think whichever team gets him will be perfectly happy (unless they’re spoiled Knicks fans who think they deserve to have top 3 players rush to New York). Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford didn’t exactly turn out poorly once they left New York, in fact Zach Randolph almost carried a team missing a max player (who was replaced by Sam Young) to the Western Conference Finals and Jamal won 6th man of the year. The best organizations start at the top, and the one true constant of the past decade has been the owner. I honestly hope player stop coming to New York unless they’re given ridiculous offers, Dolan needs to either sell the team or hire someone to actually run it while he stays the fuck out of the way.

  7. Brian Cronin

    Randolph and Crawford were both dumped by the teams that the Knicks dumped them on. Then they both became good players (and then Crawford went right back to the same player he always was).

  8. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    D’antoni wanted Deron for Carmelo so he was fired? WOW do you know much better we would be with Deron? This is embarrassing, infuriating, and just down-right sad. At least we got Woodson, AND WE HAVE CARMELO! WOOOHOOO!

    Deron Williams got a hall of fame coach fired and then got shipped out a week later well before his contract was up. If you think Melo is a bad leader and a problem in the locker room, Deron Williams isn’t exactly the best candidate for a trade. But then again, since none of us know Carmelo personally or have ever talked to him, maybe we shouldn’t be judging the man’s character and instead stick to analyzing what he brings to the court? I honestly find it kind of sickening that so many posters on this site equate fantasy numbers with character, like Lebron James is efficient because he’s a good guy, or Melo takes inefficient shots because he’s a selfish person.

  9. Brian Cronin

    I have no problem with Melo trying to get D’Antoni out. People don’t really care about Magic getting Paul Westhead fired. Whatever. It happens. My problem is Dolan picking Melo over D’Antoni. I’d be fine with both of them going, but if I had to choose between the two, I’d rather keep D’Antoni, and I think it was a poor decision of Dolan to go the other direction. But I have absolutely zero problem with Melo wanting D’Antoni gone. Just like I have no problem with Melo trying to get every single cent he possibly could get out of the Knicks, even if it meant that the Knicks had to gut their roster to trade for him – I just have a problem with Dolan acquiescing to Melo’s desire.

  10. xduckshoex

    Brian Cronin:
    I have no problem with Melo trying to get D’Antoni out. People don’t really care about Magic getting Paul Westhead fired. Whatever. It happens. My problem is Dolan picking Melo over D’Antoni. I’d be fine with both of them going, but if I had to choose between the two, I’d rather keep D’Antoni, and I think it was a poor decision of Dolan to go the other direction. But I have absolutely zero problem with Melo wanting D’Antoni gone. Just like I have no problem with Melo trying to get every single cent he possibly could get out of the Knicks, even if it meant that the Knicks had to gut their roster to trade for him – I just have a problem with Dolan acquiescing to Melo’s desire.

    I’ll agree with this.

    On track record alone D’Antoni is the wise choice. More success before NY, and he had the Knicks playing better ball before Melo arrived.

  11. Bruno Almeida

    Brian Cronin:
    Randolph and Crawford were both dumped by the teams that the Knicks dumped them on. Then they both became good players (and then Crawford went right back to the same player he always was).

    perfectly said… Crawford is still a pretty bad and overrated volume shooter (pretty much what he had always been in NY), he simply went from having to carry a team to being the 6th man on a pretty good one… now that he has a bigger offensive load again, everybody is remembering just how irritating his game can be when he’s on your team.

    and well, I don’t think 1 season of ‘good’ Randolph is enough to say he’s that good, specially since Memphis was an 8th seed with him and now they’re 4th on a tougher year (Wolves, Jazz, Rockets and Clippers are all better) without him and with Rudy Gay, so we might as well give credit to the entire Grizzlies team, they’re the constant so far.

  12. TelegraphedPass

    I think we need to give players and coaches a little more credit. We tend to oversimplify things with statements like “DA HATES DEFENSE” and “Melo doesn’t care about winning!” to explain complex matters in easy ways.

    I’m pretty certain D’Antoni wasn’t in the practice gym commanding players to allow free runs at the basket. I’m going to assume an NBA head coach understands that defense matters.

    I’m also pretty sure Carmelo cares about the Ws and Ls. We’ve gotten to the point where a smile from Dwight or a dance from LeBron becomes some sort of losing attitude. Players don’t have to have the same method of coping with tough times.

    Coaches and players all have their flaws. Boiling them down to blanket generalizations reveals nothing.

  13. cgreene

    First of all… the guy resigned. Second of all… the Deron for Melo rumors are bullshit. Third of all… the bottom line is that the coach has one main responsibility and that is to maximize the performance of the players on the team and MDA simply did not do that. System, selfishness it doesn’t matter. MDA did not do his job. He did not hold players accountable either. Laissez faire is not what this team needed.

  14. Ben R

    cgreene: Laissez faire is not what this team needed.

    I agree with this, but now with the presedent of Melo first, coach and team second that was set with this chain of events can any coach short of Phil Jackson hold Melo accountable.

  15. cgreene

    I think one thing is pretty obvious by the way and that is that Dantoni quit. He was not fired.

  16. Juany8

    Bruno Almeida: perfectly said… Crawford is still a pretty bad and overrated volume shooter (pretty much what he had always been in NY), he simply went from having to carry a team to being the 6th man on a pretty good one… now that he has a bigger offensive load again, everybody is remembering just how irritating his game can be when he’s on your team.

    and well, I don’t think 1 season of ‘good’ Randolph is enough to say he’s that good, specially since Memphis was an 8th seed with him and now they’re 4th on a tougher year (Wolves, Jazz, Rockets and Clippers are all better) without him and with Rudy Gay, so we might as well give credit to the entire Grizzlies team, they’re the constant so far.

    1 good season? So his all star berth the year before is meaningless? Plus in his “one” good season, he was a top 5 player in the playoffs. Not exactly a small thing. Also, Jamal is getting paid $5 million a year for 2 years, let’s not act like Portland brought him in to save their season. Especially since Felton has been just as big a problem for that team

  17. Ben R

    D’Antoni did not quit. He was forced out. Dolan cut him off at the knees and backed him against a wall and then opened a door and said I’ll give you all your money if you walk away.

  18. max fisher-cohen

    If you have no power, how can you hold a player accountable? D’Antoni tried to be agreeable and give Melo time to adjust. At first, MDA iso’d Melo a ton. The team struggled. Then, in the few games before and after Linsanity, Melo seemed on board with MDA. He struggled and didn’t get his numbers. The media got on him. And then he went back to his old ways. D’Antoni responded by making a power play, tried to get rid of the cancer, and he lost his job for it. I don’t see that as laissez faire. I see that as doing what it takes to try to get the team to play winning basketball. A fire-worthy offense under the regime of James Dolan.

  19. cgreene

    Ben R: I agree with this, but now with the presedent of Melo first, coach and team second that was set with this chain of events can any coach short of Phil Jackson hold Melo accountable.

    Sure there are. Some people brought up yesterday what Thibodeau does in Chicago. Skiles does it (to a fault). SVG does it. Pop obviously (he used to destroy Tony Parker and Manu visibly). Sloan obviously. I think there are some guys that still have a more accountable approach. Phil is actually more lax. He just screws with guys heads and does it in the press etc. Coaches need to have enough confidence in themselves to do it whether they have prima donnas or not.

  20. d-mar

    I brought this up on another thread, but if D12 is really staying for another year, don’t the Nets have to burn up the phone lines and try to move D-Will before tomorrow? Otherwise, they lose him for nothing this summer and move to Brooklyn with Brook Lopez (Brooklyn, Brook Lopez, maybe there’s a marketing angle there?) as their star. And wouldn’t Melo fill that star player need, plus he’s locked up long term? I just don’t see how they can stand pat if Dwight re-ups with Orlando.

  21. Jake S.

    Ben R:
    D’Antoni did not quit. He was forced out. Dolan cut him off at the knees and backed him against a wall and then opened a door and said I’ll give you all your money if you walk away.

    Correct. Don’t believe the ministry of information.

  22. BigBlueAL

    What a coincidence that under James Dolan 3 pretty good coaches resigned as Knicks head coach (JVG, Lenny Wilkens, D’Antoni).

  23. cgreene

    Clyde with proper insight on the losing streak (Breen trying to set him up to blame Melo) but Clyde says: Melo was part of it but it was turnovers (system related IMO by having the ball in Lin’s hands too much), defense (more of an Amare issue), offensive rebounds against the Bulls etc. Also the end of the Boston game was pure coaching in a lot of people’s opinions here including mine. Melo is very flawed. I agree. But so is Dantoni and he was the wrong coach for this group.

  24. limpidgimp

    For all the criticism that D’Antoni didn’t hold players accountable for performing baldy, it seems probable to me that he didn’t have the authority to do so. Given how much Dolan loves Melo, it seems impossible that MDA could have benched Melo anymore than he already did for breaking plays and playing poor defense. Whether D’Antoni resigned or was fired amounts to the same thing. It’s a result of being at odds with management and having no authority to really coach the team.

  25. Ben R

    cgreene: Sure there are.Some people brought up yesterday what Thibodeau does in Chicago.Skiles does it (to a fault).SVG does it.Pop obviously (he used to destroy Tony Parker and Manu visibly).Sloan obviously.I think there are some guys that still have a more accountable approach.Phil is actually more lax.He just screws with guys heads and does it in the press etc.Coaches need to have enough confidence in themselves to do it whether they have prima donnas or not.

    But Dolan has pretty much said, with actions not words, that win or lose this is Melo’s team. If he wants to break plays and not play defense that is fine if he wants to snap at teammates and sulk on the bench so be it and if you have a problem talk to Mike D’Antoni to see how it works out.

  26. Bruno Almeida

    Juany8: 1 good season? So his all star berth the year before is meaningless? Plus in his “one” good season, he was a top 5 player in the playoffs. Not exactly a small thing. Also, Jamal is getting paid $5 million a year for 2 years, let’s not act like Portland brought him in to save their season. Especially since Felton has been just as big a problem for that team

    it is something, but I’m just pointing to the fact that he “carried” the team when they were without Rudy Gay, and yet, now, with less depth (Battier and Arthur are gone) and without Randolph, they look like a better team than last year’s version.

    if Randolph was the biggest reason for this team’s success, they would be considerably worse without him (specially considering Rudy Gay isn’t even that good and is not playing well this year).

    the defense and Marc Gasol’s play have been more important, to me.

  27. ROUGH

    TelegraphedPass:
    Terms that I would love to die and be buried in a ditch:

    Primadonna
    Selfish
    D-Ho

    Well, the primadonnas better die on the floor trying to win tonight. Otherwise, it may be verrrry ugly for them.

  28. cgreene

    Jake S.: Correct. Don’t believe the ministry of information.

    I disagree from the perspective of this. First MDA was actually not doing a good job. He was not an employee who tells management he is going to leave but they want/need him to stay for transition purposes. He was an employee that was underperforming and management was thinking of firing anyway. I have managed many many people. If an employee whose performance was questionable already came to any business leader and questioned their desire to continue that employee would be shown the door unquestionably.

  29. TelegraphedPass

    Also. Was Patrick Ewing not a winner or was Pat Riley not a good head coach? I’m getting my narratives confused.

  30. cgreene

    Ben R: But Dolan has pretty much said, with actions not words, that win or lose this is Melo’s team. If he wants to break plays and not play defense that is fine if he wants to snap at teammates and sulk on the bench so be it and if you have a problem talk to Mike D’Antoni to see how it works out.

    I guess I just see that as a complete over simplification. Some of the great players in the game get visibly angry with their teammates on the floor, bust plays (Jackson talks about this with Kobe extensively and even MJ a little bit). That doesn’t mean the inmates are running the asylum. Now I caveat that with my feeling that Melo has not earned that type of credibility as a Knick. Look at Lebron a lot of people wish he would do exactly what we criticize Melo for because it would demonstrate more “killer instinct” or whatever winning gene he might lack. Melo doesn’t yell at Fields for not getting the ball in the post bc he has not shot enough. He does it bc he has good low position and a great opportunity to get a bucket. Again, this is not a defense of Melo so much as an argument against your point.

  31. Ben R

    cgreene: I disagree from the perspective of this.First MDA was actually not doing a good job.He was not an employee who tells management he is going to leave but they want/need him to stay for transition purposes.He was an employee that was underperforming and management was thinking of firing anyway.I have managed many many people.If an employee whose performance was questionable already came to any business leader and questioned their desire to continue that employee would be shown the door unquestionably.

    The problem is that even if D’Antoni was doing a bad job and deserved to be fired what Melo did is still not okay and Dolan’s actions today supported Melo’s behavior. By showing D’Antoni the door Dolan has thrown every player that bought into the system and actually tried under the bus. Dolan has said it is alright to take plays off and freelance on offense if you disagree with the coach.

    Leaders lead by example and the example that Dolan has shown the rest of the team is clear and that is the real problem with what went down. Melo acted like a spoiled brat and got exactly what he wanted and that is never okay.

  32. daJudge

    What a crazy day in Knick land. I think one of our posters said something about “spoiled” Knick fans. Boy, I have been following this team pretty closely for over 40 years and I don’t feel spoiled. Ruined maybe, but not spoiled. I think my expectations are realistic and I don’t feel entitled to anything but heart from my team. Anyway, it seems like Coach was a stand up guy, maybe a little passive aggressive. Either way, I wish him nothing but future success. Looks like he came to work every day, clean shaved, looking sharp, trying to make this work. When it went according to his formula, he was thrilled. No question. Nevertheless, I do not like the way he ran this team, mostly because my own bent is simple offense coupled with physical play, tough D, boxing out, rebounds, hard fouls, outlet passes, tough inside high % shots, etc… That’s just me. You want to call it ugly, OK. Good luck Mike, go Knicks.

  33. Jake S.

    cgreene: I disagree from the perspective of this.First MDA was actually not doing a good job.He was not an employee who tells management he is going to leave but they want/need him to stay for transition purposes.He was an employee that was underperforming and management was thinking of firing anyway.I have managed many many people.If an employee whose performance was questionable already came to any business leader and questioned their desire to continue that employee would be shown the door unquestionably.

    This is management’s version of the story. Not defending the job he did with his current roster, but when D’Antoni was hired, he was told he’d be able to give his input on personnel decisions. He’s been thwarted at every turn–by an imbecilic, venal prick.

  34. ROUGH

    Well, the first thing Woodson said in the press conference: most post-ups for Carmelo Anthony…

  35. Z

    Knicks need to sit fields out tonight and shop him for anything they can get over the next 24 hours. With the Camelo System now in place he is going to be worthless.

  36. Jake S.

    Did anyone catch Hollinger’s piece today? Could it really be that Melo is physically on the decline at 27? It’s curious when you realize that he absolutely flourished under D’Antoni last year.

  37. formido

    cgreene: Melo was part of it but it was turnovers (system related IMO by having the ball in Lin’s hands too much)

    Having the ball in Lin’s hands too much caused the turnovers? That’s funny, because last I checked (4 or 5 games ago), team turnovers were exactly the same pre-Lin and post-Lin. But I’m pretty sure that’s exactly the sort of faulty reasoning that was used to push D’Antoni out.

    Incidentally, 100% accurate article from SI regarding this debacle: http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/14/mike-dantoni-era-ends-prematurely/

  38. TelegraphedPass

    ROUGH: Well, the first thing Woodson said in the press conference: most post-ups for Carmelo Anthony…

    Great sign. Melo has been excellent in the post this season. His footwork, size, speed, and patience makes him a devil to deal with for most SFs.

    Less isos and post-ups for Amar’e to come as well hopefully!

  39. ROUGH

    TelegraphedPass: Great sign. Melo has been excellent in the post this season. His footwork, size, speed, and patience makes him a devil to deal with for most SFs.
    You are kidding, right?

    Less isos and post-ups for Amar’e to come as well hopefully!

  40. cgreene

    formido: Having the ball in Lin’s hands too much caused the turnovers? That’s funny, because last I checked (4 or 5 games ago), team turnovers were exactly the same pre-Lin and post-Lin. But I’m pretty sure that’s exactly the sort of faulty reasoning that was used to push D’Antoni out.

    Incidentally, 100% accurate article from SI regarding this debacle: http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/14/mike-dantoni-era-ends-prematurely/

    You misinterpreted what I was saying. I wasn’t blaming Lin for the turnovers. I was blaming the system and the idea that a rookie PG (Shumpert, Douglas, Lin) would be able to run it efficiently when they are expected to make so many decisions in the offense so quickly. That was just a reason they were losing as opposed to Melo stopping the ball or whatever else.

  41. Juany8

    ROUGH:
    Well, the first thing Woodson said in the press conference: most post-ups for Carmelo Anthony…

    Considering he has been in the top 10% of the league on efficiency on post up plays, I don’t see how that’s not a lot better than watching Lin constantly miss open cutters/shooters so he can jack up floaters. Again, if you’re going to keep Melo, try to put him in the best positions to succeed, which are not necessarily what Melo says they are. Playing him like Shawn Marion/Luol Deng is just an absolute waste, and he’s not even that good at it.

  42. art vandelay

    I think it was I who remarked about looking back on old threads the other day…it really is an exercise that can actually serve as a pick-me-up, especially when the subject of the old thread is an old Eddy Curry Case Study or Analysis of the Ariza-for-Steve Francis trade, for example….really puts a 6-game losing streak in perspective…as in, YES things COULD be worse!

  43. Tony Pena

    Please Mike Breen, enough with the ultra-self-righteousness today. And going forward. And all your opinions on what the Knicks FO should do.

  44. Jake S.

    Can’t believe MSG deprived us the privilege of hearing Melo booed during introductions. Oh wait, yes I can.

  45. Frank O.

    I have watched this team for 41 years.
    I am very close to walking away.
    Lin had this team humming. Carmelo freelanced and undermined and the stupid weasel owner backs Carmelo.
    Dysfunction.
    I grow tired

  46. TelegraphedPass

    @51 Melo’s FG% from the post this season is 47.6% on .99 PPP.

    STAT’s – 37% on .72 PPP.

  47. formido

    What does the article show:

    Amare/Carmelo have THE WORST two man defensive rating of any two man combination on the Knicks. But I’m sure that’s D’Antoni’s fault.

    Also, when Lin’s on the floor, the Knick’s offensive efficiency is about equal with Jazz, so 8th in the association. Caveat: It’s better with the backups. How not surprising.

    When Carmelo came back, I didn’t want to believe it, but he really is a cancer.

  48. Juany8

    cgreene: You misinterpreted what I was saying.I wasn’t blaming Lin for the turnovers.I was blaming the system and the idea that a rookie PG (Shumpert, Douglas, Lin) would be able to run it efficiently when they are expected to make so many decisions in the offense so quickly.That was just a reason they were losing as opposed to Melo stopping the ball or whatever else.

    The type of turnovers Lin and Fields commit aren’t just bad for the offense either, they tend to turn into easy baskets for the defense (especially since they both suck at transition defense, a big problem for guards to have). Trying to make a player who was a d-leaguer early in this year into the primary offensive option of the team was not a good idea, there was a neccessity for it when he first came in, but now it’s causing as many problems for the offense as Melo and Amar’e are.

  49. TelegraphedPass

    formido: What does the article show:Amare/Carmelo have THE WORST two man defensive rating of any two man combination on the Knicks. But I’m sure that’s D’Antoni’s fault.Also, when Lin’s on the floor, the Knick’s offensive efficiency is about equal with Jazz, so 8th in the association. Caveat: It’s better with the backups. How not surprising.When Carmelo came back, I didn’t want to believe it, but he really is a cancer.

    I think your last sentence is a gross oversimplification of any player. He clearly didn’t fit in the offense. But as STAT and Chandler implied throughout this struggle: It’s about buying into the system and he was unwilling to do that. Doesn’t make him a cancer for refusing to adapt to an offense that didn’t feature him. You could argue it was short-sighted and ignorant, but cancer is a stretch.

  50. Juany8

    formido:
    What does the article show:

    Amare/Carmelo have THE WORST two man defensive rating of any two man combination on the Knicks. But I’m sure that’s D’Antoni’s fault.

    Also, when Lin’s on the floor, the Knick’s offensive efficiency is about equal with Jazz, so 8th in the association. Caveat: It’s better with the backups. How not surprising.

    When Carmelo came back, I didn’t want to believe it, but he really is a cancer.

    Before Lin came in, I made a big point about how those numbers were literally reversed, as the team was about +10 pts better with Melo on the floor than on the bench(and +5 overall when he was on the floor, a pretty good number). Funny how everyone ignored that back then when it wasn’t convenient

  51. Brian Cronin

    Please Mike Breen, enough with the ultra-self-righteousness today. And going forward. And all your opinions on what the Knicks FO should do.

    Yeah, even when I absolutely agree with Breen, he often presents it in this patronizing sort of patriarchal type of delivery, like the players are children.

  52. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin: Yeah, even when I absolutely agree with Breen, he often presents it in this patronizing sort of patriarchal type of delivery, like the players are children.

    And the characterization that the players are children is inaccurate how?

  53. Ben R

    Frank O.:
    I have watched this team for 41 years.
    I am very close to walking away.
    Lin had this team humming. Carmelo freelanced and undermined and the stupid weasel owner backs Carmelo.
    Dysfunction.
    I grow tired

    I’m right there with you though I’ve only watched for 25 years.

  54. gregor.samsa

    This is the first time I’ve ever rooted for a Knicks player to fail.

    And of course he comes out playing well.

  55. Juany8

    BigBlueAL:
    Wow, quick hook for Lin.

    I know this is unpopular, but even with Melo’s recent skid I think Lin’s biggest value to this season is keeping us in the playoff race and giving Baron time to get back to game shape. If he’s finishing games in the playoffs, I don’t care what Carmelo and Stoudemire do, we are not going to win

  56. BigBlueAL

    Safe to say tonight wont be a true test for this Knicks team, the back-to-back this weekend vs Indiana will really let us know where this team is at. Plus it comes after Woodson gets a practice tomorrow.

  57. Degree_Absolute

    How was Melo received by the Garden crowd? Could not catch the beginning of the game.

  58. Brian Cronin

    Safe to say tonight wont be a true test for this Knicks team, the back-to-back this weekend vs Indiana will really let us know where this team is at. Plus it comes after Woodson gets a practice tomorrow.

    That sounds about right.

  59. A Voice of Reason

    Mike Breen fired after this year. You know Dolan is stroking his tiger thinking about it..

  60. TelegraphedPass

    Juany8: I know this is unpopular, but even with Melo’s recent skid I think Lin’s biggest value to this season is keeping us in the playoff race and giving Baron time to get back to game shape. If he’s finishing games in the playoffs, I don’t care what Carmelo and Stoudemire do, we are not going to win

    Depends on the offense. If he isn’t ball-dominant, there is less reason to play Lin over Boom Diz. With more attention likely being paid to Amar’e and Melo, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Baron take the starting role. Honestly, he strikes me as a strong voice and leader so this may not be the worst thing. I so loved Linsanity, though.

  61. art vandelay

    I think whoever was pounding the drum that Amar’e's added weight was bringing him down all season may have hit the nail on the head….I am sure a confluence of factors have kept him from playing at his normal level…but I really think he will emerge still..I never thought he was done…he has shown some nice flashes of late and I think he still has quite a bit in the tank (now that he is lighter)…if only we could get him to learn how to read and react defensively…sad thing is I think he gives effort, he just is incapable of learning HOW to defend. Still don’t get how added weight should negatively influence his jumpshot, but maybe that was related to his lack of practicing during offseason and not to the weight.

  62. dogrufus

    How the fuck is Jeffries so consistently impactful without looking like a good basketball player almost ever?

  63. Juany8

    Why can people not shoot on the Knicks this year? Seriously, JR has been a good shooter in the past, so was Landry, even Melo had a good season with the Knicks last season, how in the world did the whole team forget how to shoot? We can’t even make fucking free throws, a decent rate and we’d probably be .500

  64. A Voice of Reason

    Juany8:
    Why can people not shoot on the Knicks this year? Seriously, JR has been a good shooter in the past, so was Landry, even Melo had a good season with the Knicks last season, how in the world did the whole team forget how to shoot? We can’t even make fucking free throws, a decent rate and we’d probably be .500

    This is not exclusively a Knicks issue, although it does seem to be worse here…

    No training camp really hurts the jumper. It’s all about reps.

  65. gregor.samsa

    Jake S.:
    Gregor Samsa in the house! Where’s Winston Smith?

    He’s stuck 28 years in the past…not coincidentally in the same year Carmelo Anthony was born.

  66. Juany8

    One thing I will give this Knicks team credit for. They never gave up and they never turned on each other. At their best, the Knicks have looked like they could play with anyone, if the only thing Mike Woodson does is help provide consistency for this team it’ll be a huge deal.

  67. BigBlueAL

    Guys remember something about tonight, Portland right now is more dysfunctional than the Knicks are. Hold your judgement on the Knicks until this weekend.

  68. Knicks4Eva

    I had to miss a bit…was Melo getting booed a lot?
    And what’s with STAT making all of his shots?

  69. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    I don’t see how you could ever be out on the Knicks. They’re our favorite team. That’s why we’re all here.

    Yeah I mean if you stuck with this team thru the Isiah years than you should never bail on this team. Nothing will be worse than those years.

  70. Brian Cronin

    Yeah I mean if you stuck with this team thru the Isiah years than you should never bail on this team. Nothing will be worse than those years.

    Exactly. I was looking through some of my older posts after someone mentioned looking at old threads and I can’t believe the shit I was debating six years ago. Complaining about how Larry Brown played Mo Taylor and Malik Rose too much? Ugh.

  71. Juany8

    My god… Teams are starting to pick up Lin in the backcourt, the Knicks might have to flip Davis’ and Lin’s minutes soon if he doesn’t pick his play up a bit…

  72. NY2MIA

    BigBlueAL:
    Guys remember something about tonight, Portland right now is more dysfunctional than the Knicks are.Hold your judgement on the Knicks until this weekend.

    Portland is dysfunctional, but be fair, after today you have to commend the way they are playing right now, no matter the outcome.

  73. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Juany8: I know this is unpopular, but even with Melo’s recent skid I think Lin’s biggest value to this season is keeping us in the playoff race and giving Baron time to get back to game shape. If he’s finishing games in the playoffs, I don’t care what Carmelo and Stoudemire do, we are not going to win

    I can agree to this. I thought originally that at the very worst, Lin’s emergence would buy Baron extra time.

  74. art vandelay

    As far as being a Knick fan, once a fan, always a fan….there is no on-off switch for a real one….I feel for those who literally grew up as fans during the Layden/Isiah era…they literally never saw winning basketball…just one circus after another…in that respect, I am happy to have been born in early 80s and able to appreciate the 90s and 13 straight playoff appearances.

  75. SSS

    I know the minutes don’t work out, but aren’t the best guard/wing combos:

    Baron, Shumpert, Melo
    and
    Lin, Smith, Fields

  76. NY2MIA

    Lin looking real good so far. This is an opportunity for him to prove it’s not just the system. Love to see him talking strategy with Melo on the sideline.

  77. A Voice of Reason

    art vandelay:
    As far as being a Knick fan, once a fan, always a fan….there is no on-off switch for a real one….I feel for those who literally grew up as fans during the Layden/Isiah era…they literally never saw winning basketball…just one circus after another…in that respect, I am happy to have been born in early 80s and able to appreciate the 90s and 13 straight playoff appearances.

    +1

  78. Ben R

    Juany8:
    My god… Teams are starting to pick up Lin in the backcourt, the Knicks might have to flip Davis’ and Lin’s minutes soon if he doesn’t pick his play up a bit…

    Even in the recent struggles Lin is outplaying Davis. They are both turning the ball over and Davis is shooting worse than Douglas was. Lin over the losing streak is still shooting way better than Davis. Lin is and should be our PG now and in the future.

  79. Frank O.

    I’m sorry. The 90s were agony. A horrible finger tip,roll, repeated Charles Smith failures…1-19.
    No, the 90s were horrible.

  80. Shad0wF0x

    @88

    I was one of the posters hammering about his weight gain. From personal experience even +7 lbs of holiday weight can adversely effect all my athletic ability.

  81. Juany8

    SSS:
    I know the minutes don’t work out, but aren’t the best guard/wing combos:

    Baron, Shumpert, Melo
    and
    Lin, Smith, Fields

    I’d say yes, although we need either Smith or Shumpert to start hitting 3′s to really open things up for the starting lineup. Either way you can’t have a craptastic defender starting out there, if anything the top coaches have shown that it’s better to start someone who can defend well, then switching him off for offense guys (Sefalosha, Bowen, Bogans). It prevents the starters from having to expend too much energy on defense early in the game, and it allows limited offensive players to spend their time with the starters.

  82. Frank O.

    Juany8:
    My god… Teams are starting to pick up Lin in the backcourt, the Knicks might have to flip Davis’ and Lin’s minutes soon if he doesn’t pick his play up a bit…

    Lin has played much better than Davis

  83. Knicks4Eva

    Amar’e again with the good stuff.
    I know he’s an MDA fan, but maybe any resolution to tension is a good one? He’s looking almost spry.

  84. TelegraphedPass

    Given how excellent Lin has been scoring in isolation, is it possible that he could actually flourish in this offense? He’s at 47.8% in iso with a comparable sample size to Derrick Rose.

  85. Juany8

    Melo has had to take 2 late second shots because their teammates held the ball too long. One nice thing about Melo is that he takes full responsibility for taking the big shots instead of passing it off to save his percentage. Derrick Rose and Kobe tend to do this too.

  86. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL:
    The Knicks now have 3 asst coaches right??Herb, Atkinson and whose the 3rd??

    Herb Williams…
    They should just dedicate a seat to him and rather than calling his position assistant, refer to it as “the Herb.”

  87. dogrufus

    art vandelay:
    As far as being a Knick fan, once a fan, always a fan….there is no on-off switch for a real one….I feel for those who literally grew up as fans during the Layden/Isiah era…they literally never saw winning basketball…just one circus after another…in that respect, I am happy to have been born in early 80s and able to appreciate the 90s and 13 straight playoff appearances.

    I know how you feel. Ate age 11, following no sport or team, I was forged as a lifelong Knick fan by that ’94 playoff run. My hero was Starks. Those teams had a lot of highs and lows, and we never broke through, but we were in the mix. I only wish we as a fan base had appreciated Ewing more when we had him.

    That’s why Dolan owning the team is so shitty. There isn’t another Knicks I can root for.

  88. Shad0wF0x

    @136.

    Can’t blame him for that. Can blame all those big names for doing so with the defender on their face with 15s to go.

  89. gregor.samsa

    Glad to see this team (predictably) come out with tons of energy after the coaching change, but it’s still a below average team that needs a massive overhaul of the roster.

    I hope a good stretch of play over the next week or so doesn’t mask that fact…if it does then they’re all Pyrrhic victories.

  90. Degree_Absolute

    BigBlueAL:
    Guys remember something about tonight, Portland right now is more dysfunctional than the Knicks are.Hold your judgement on the Knicks until this weekend.

    Yeah my buddy who is a big Celtics fan (the played Portland over the weekend) assures me that Portland is awful and if we weren’t dominating them right now, there would be a problem.

  91. Frank O.

    Juany8:
    Melo has had to take 2 late second shots because their teammates held the ball too long. One nice thing about Melo is that he takes full responsibility for taking the big shots instead of passing it off to save his percentage. Derrick Rose and Kobe tend to do this too.

    Melo is gr8…

    And judging by his percentages, he’s got a lot to take responsibility for…

  92. art vandelay

    90s were pure unadulterated agony, but they were a hell of a fun ride as well….I would relive them again 1 million times before I would go through 2002-2009 again (a professional sports fans worst nightmare)…..I think if there is a hell they must force the worst perpetrators who happen to have been sports fans in their lives to be a knicks fan during that era.

  93. gregor.samsa

    Brian Cronin:
    In all seriousness, at least this team has good players. The David Lee era had, well, David Lee and that was it.

    David Lee would be the second best player on this team. Compared to Amar’e he’s a better passer, rebounder, more efficient scorer (and this year just a better scorer period), and, unbelievably, a better defender.

    So who’s the good player? Carmelo Anthony? Who has to have things ‘just so’ so he can lead the team to year after year of first round exits? Yes…thank goodness this is no longer the David Lee era.

  94. Degree_Absolute

    dogrufus: Calls to mind a George Carlin bit of “phrases that have never been said before in human history”

    LOL. I felt awful typing it, but I have been killing him all day. The Knicks seem energized without the weight of D’Antoni’s lame duck status hanging over them.

  95. Frank O.

    dogrufus:
    I thought Amare loved MDA….why is he playing like a god the second he leaves?

    This has been coming. Amare has looked very good in recent games…offensively. The loss of 15 pounds will do that for you.

  96. Brian Cronin

    So who’s the good player?

    Pretty much everyone in the rotation is a good player right now. They’re not necessarily good fits with each other, but there are a lot of good players on this team.

  97. SSS

    So, for the benefit of those of us who haven’t been able to watch – what kind of offensive sets have the Knicks been running so far?

  98. erobes

    gregor.samsa: David Lee would be the second best player on this team. Compared to Amar’e he’s a better passer, rebounder, more efficient scorer (and this year just a better scorer period), and, unbelievably, a better defender.

    So who’s the good player?Carmelo Anthony?Who has to have things ‘just so’ so he can lead the team to year after year of first round exits?Yes…thank goodness this is no longer the David Lee era.

    I’d think Chandler counts as a good player. That’s just me though.

  99. Bruno Almeida

    now that D’Antoni is gone, every single lazy motherf***** is trying hard, professional athletes are sickening sometimes.

    as much as I want this team to win, if they play marginally better it would mean Woodson resigned / Melo + Amare core unchanged, and that’s a disaster.

  100. Richmond County

    Worst fan ever, all I could think about as the lead grew was how much more painful each point scored is going to make the traditional 3rd quarter meltdown…

  101. Brian Cronin

    as much as I want this team to win, if they play marginally better it would mean Woodson resigned / Melo + Amare core unchanged, and that’s a disaster.

    Yep, like I’ve been saying, that is my nightmare scenario.

  102. BigBlueAL

    I cant see Fields continuing to start. With the way he and Smith are playing Shump might soon be the starting SG getting over 30 mins a game.

  103. Bruno Almeida

    Brian Cronin: Yep, like I’ve been saying, that is my nightmare scenario.

    the only thing that can be worse is Calipari signing for a billion dollars, that would be my nightmare scenario (keeping both Melo and Amare also)

  104. BigBlueAL

    Bruno Almeida: the only thing that can be worse is Calipari signing for a billion dollars, that would be my nightmare scenario (keeping both Melo and Amare also)

    Yup, Id rather have Woodson coach this team next season than Calipari.

  105. nicos

    The irony is this the offense D’A wanted- Melo has actually stayed out beyond the three point line, no broken plays by him. They’ve only posted him up once or twice. He’s moved the ball rather than holding it, etc…

  106. Frank O.

    With Jerry Sloan and the Zen master available, there is no way they settle on Woodson.
    One this is certain, Herb will remain. Someone needs to hold the white board

  107. Bruno Almeida

    nicos:
    The irony is this the offense D’A wanted- Melo has actually stayed out beyond the three point line, no broken plays by him.They’ve only posted him up once or twice.He’s moved the ball rather than holding it, etc…

    it just shows that Melo wasn’t doing this things because he didn’t want to, which is pretty… disheartening, to say the least, for the fortunes of our beloved franchise.

  108. DRed

    Two observations:

    1) These assholes just haven’t been trying for weeks; or

    2) sometime in the future advanced NBA statisticians will determine that Jarred Jeffries should have been 2012 MVP.

  109. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    You know, I thought it’d be summer 2013 that all this chatter happened.

    Sucks when Cock Jowles knows best, huh?

  110. cgreene

    nicos:
    The irony is this the offense D’A wanted- Melo has actually stayed out beyond the three point line, no broken plays by him.They’ve only posted him up once or twice.He’s moved the ball rather than holding it, etc…

    Well one would hope that is a matchup decision (something we rarely saw w MDA). Melo against Wallace in the post is not a matchup advantage for Knicks.

  111. Tony Pena

    Nothing to do with them blasting a bottom feeder team, but a few quick observations of minus-D’antoni Knicks:

    -Called timeout when Portland was getting a little momentum, even if up by 20+. Also called one with 2.6 left, “freestyling” MDA would’ve let it play out.
    -Cutting Lin’s minutes early. (The argument, MDA’s too, is that he’s still a rookie right? So shorter minutes is only right)
    -Featuring his best player, superstar or not.
    -(This one is a little more speculating I admit): Talking to Lin after a bad plays. I think MDA was like “it’s OK, he’s smart, he’ll learn”…

    I’m sure people can come out with more of these. But it’s just obvious, as Gideon pointed out, no attention to detail by MDA. maybe he was sensing his exit prematurely.

    There’s no reason this team, even pre-JR and Baron, should’ve been this bad.

  112. Caleb

    Just tuning in, wow. Too bad wwe didn’t fire MDA a couple months ago, we’d be 38-3 or something like that.

  113. DS

    This game is exactly what the Knicks needed… to vindicate Dolan and let the trade deadline pass without fixing the real problems.

  114. ww007

    I know right? This is EXACTLY what D’Antoni wanted: good ball movement, Melo playing unselfishly. How do you figure that they finally play D’Antoni’s style the second he leaves? And give such defensive effort? Maybe they know Woodson will actually hold them accountable so they subconsciously give more effort? Granted its only one half against a pretty bad team, but still…

    nicos:
    The irony is this the offense D’A wanted- Melo has actually stayed out beyond the three point line, no broken plays by him.They’ve only posted him up once or twice.He’s moved the ball rather than holding it, etc…

  115. Tony Pena

    nicos:
    The irony is this the offense D’A wanted- Melo has actually stayed out beyond the three point line, no broken plays by him.They’ve only posted him up once or twice.He’s moved the ball rather than holding it, etc…

    He’s been featured man. But it’s Ok to give him the ball now because it’s not blasphemy to go 1-1. Result: Less pressure and he’s making the right play.

  116. Frank O.

    Hell of a hit by Cambi. When you’re going over the middle of the secondary head needs to be on a swivel…
    Wait this isn’t football…

  117. ruruland

    DS: This game is exactly what the Knicks needed… to vindicate Dolan and let the trade deadline pass without fixing the real problems.

    Melo and Amar’e have never won. The’ve certainly never won with a supporting cast this bad.

  118. ruruland

    Tony Pena: He’s been featured man. But it’s Ok to give him the ball now because it’s not blasphemy to go 1-1. Result: Less pressure and he’s making the right play.

    This. Melo feeling like an accepted part of the team again.

  119. Brian Cronin

    The good thing is even if they have a bad third period, their lead is so big they have breathing room. I mean, they’re creeping back…to being down 27. Awesome.

  120. TheXman

    ruruland: This. Melo feeling like an accepted part of the team again.

    It’s just one game, if they win. This game also isn’t even over, you never know.

  121. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: Camby’s flagrant foul brought a smile to my face. Old school Knicks baby lol

    Camby is ridiculously soft, though. never seen him make that kind of play before.

  122. jon abbey

    can we go back to starting Shumpert now? he was a guy I thought D’Antoni totally lost towards the end, jerking him around despite his major role in a lot of NY’s wins.

  123. BigBlueAL

    ruruland: Camby is ridiculously soft, though. never seen him make that kind of play before.

    Tell Smits and the Davis boys that Camby is soft.

  124. jon abbey

    the law of averages says that Smith is going to have some HUGE games at some point, but man, does he suck now.

  125. Degree_Absolute

    BigBlueAL:
    I dunno who is a worst shooter right now, Smith or Fields.

    Gotta be Fields. He shoots laser beams out there. It looks more like a soccer throw-in than a jump shot.

  126. ruruland

    Junior is capable of hitting ten more of those in the final 14 minutes.

    When he sees two go down like that, after his previous struggles, don’t be surprised if you start to see some whacky shots he’ll probably make….used to be a time to predict his longest bomb

  127. cgreene

    Topic change. You know with all the love of the idea of getting Dwight Howard he sure is unlikeable as well. He is one of the most immature athletes I have seen.

  128. Doug

    Degree_Absolute: Gotta be Fields.He shoots laser beams out there.It looks more like a soccer throw-in than a jump shot.

    Rory Delap’s throw-ins for Stoke have more arc on them than Fields’ jump shot.

  129. cgreene

    jon abbey:
    the law of averages says that Smith is going to have some HUGE games at some point, but man, does he suck now.

    let’s just hope it’s not all tonight!

  130. ephus

    My bet is that Dwight Howard will be a Net at this time tomorrow. Orlando cannot let him walkaway for nothing, because they would still be up against the cap for years. Lopez/Brooks/expirings/4 first round picks for Howard + Turk + Duhon would be a decent trade for Orlando.

  131. ess-dog

    So it’s not THAT crazy to think that Orlando would bite on Stat, Shump and Lin for Howard and Duhon, is it? Stat goes to his hometown with a great young pg and a great defender.

    We’ll have twin towers. It’s not like either of our bigs can shoot now, what’s the difference?

    Isn’t that offer at least as good as Lopez, some mid-1sts and junk?

    JUST SAYIN

  132. BigBlueAL

    Doug: Rory Delap’s throw-ins for Stoke have more arc on them than Fields’ jump shot.

    Cristiano Ronaldo’s free kicks have more arc than a Fields jumper.

  133. Bruno Almeida

    ruruland: This. Melo feeling like an accepted part of the team again.

    oh come on, this is one game against a team that’s playing as terribly as possible for an NBA team.

    and I’m sorry, I’m all for chemistry, being loved and etc., but if you’re a professional basketball player who gets paid 18 mil a year to do nothing else but play, this should be enough motivation to kill yourself everytime you step on the court.

  134. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: Tell Smits and the Davis boys that Camby is soft.

    That was a long, long time ago. his body broke down at a pretty early age– brittle guy who just couldn’t compensate for lack of size with energy plays as his career progressed. Still plays hard in certain ways — good lose ball player– still an empty stats guy to me and steals rebounds….

  135. llcoolbp

    I was one of the more vocal fire dantoni guys on this forum. I must say I felt sad for him today. He definitely got a raw deal with the short season and all the team changes. Melo has to man up from here out. It’s on him now to really be a leader. Though it’s just one game, hopefully this team has woken up. Dantoni will no doubt land somewhere.

  136. Degree_Absolute

    Bruno Almeida: oh come on, this is one game against a team that’s playing as terribly as possible for an NBA team.

    and I’m sorry, I’m all for chemistry, being loved and etc., but if you’re a professional basketball player who gets paid 18 mil a year to do nothing else but play, this should be enough motivation to kill yourself everytime you step on the court.

    *slow clap*

  137. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Just keep Chandler in as long as possible. You know… gotta make him prove himself to the new coach. He’s not injured or anything. Just keep playing him.

  138. hoolahoop

    Who’s the imposter wearing Melo’s jersey. This guy could have saved Dantoni’s job.

  139. ruruland

    Bruno Almeida: oh come on, this is one game against a team that’s playing as terribly as possible for an NBA team.and I’m sorry, I’m all for chemistry, being loved and etc., but if you’re a professional basketball player who gets paid 18 mil a year to do nothing else but play, this should be enough motivation to kill yourself everytime you step on the court.

    I agree, in some ways and to an extent.

    No excuse for ever not playing hard– and Melo doesn’t deserve to be excused for his poor play this year….

    But that’s not reality right now. The question is will Knicks fans jump back on the bandwagon when this starts to get on a roll.

  140. llcoolbp

    the offense just flows better with lin out there. Good move by woodson getting him back out there, now it’s a blow out again. Now chandler should sit.

  141. Frank O.

    ruruland: I agree, in some ways and to an extent.

    No excuse for ever not playing hard– and Melo doesn’t deserve to be excused for his poor play this year….

    But that’s not reality right now. The question is will Knicks fans jump back on the bandwagon when this starts to get on a roll.

    It feels different for me…like i felt when the big trade was made last year. I have seen Mike D. As an integral part of this effort and it seems somewhat less right now without him here. And frankly the linsanity period was beautiful basketball and I was excited that Mike felt like his plays were being executed.

  142. ruruland

    Guys playing with more freedom on offense. Chandler with post up haven’t seen that all year.

    If MDA had been more willing to incorporate other things in the offense maybe this kind of game would have happened earlier…..

  143. jon abbey

    jon abbey:
    the law of averages says that Smith is going to have some HUGE games at some point, but man, does he suck now.

    heh, seven three pointers after this comment thirty minutes ago.

  144. Frank O.

    ruruland:
    Guys playing with more freedom on offense. Chandler with post up haven’t seen that all year.

    If MDA had been more willing to incorporate other things in the offense maybe this kind of game would have happened earlier…..

    This game is happening because of Portland.

  145. llcoolbp

    Mike D was the scapegoat for this, plain and simple. The players quit on him, specifically melo. Unfortunately players are harder to “fire” or move. So the coach takes the blame. It’s the nature of this business. Woodson has a golden opportunity here. He has a talented roster that has underachieved. If they somehow get to the playoffs and win a round or even make it competitive in the first round against the heat or bulls, woddson might get a contract.

  146. ruruland

    Frank O.: It feels different for me…like i felt when the big trade was made last year. I have seen Mike D. As an integral part of this effort and it seems somewhat less right now without him here. And frankly the linsanity period was beautiful basketball and I was excited that Mike felt like his plays were being executed.

    I understand those sentiments. MDA is a great guy, his offense is very good, his proven hismelf as a top 10 coach, and for 8 games against poor opponents (generally) the Knicks were a feel good story……

    Mike is gone, and for many reasons that’s a good thing. I won’t blame you for staying off the bandwagon.

  147. llcoolbp

    Speaking of which, who do you guys want to see coach this team? Woodson, Jackson, van gundy, sloan, calipari, Ewing? I wouldn’t mind any of those guys except woodson.

  148. jon abbey

    llcoolbp:
    Speaking of which, who do you guys want to see coach this team? Woodson, Jackson, van gundy, sloan, calipari, Ewing? I wouldn’t mind any of those guys except woodson.

    how about a Ewing/Howard package deal? maybe they can hire Mason, Oakley and Starks as assistant coaches too.

  149. cgreene

    Frank O.: This game is happening because of Portland.

    That’s not the point though. Yes Portland sucks and this blowout has much more to do with that than how good the Knicks are. BUT ruru is right. Run different stuff. Play to matchups. Most of all try something new when things are NOT working like the last 6 games. That was the biggest problem I had with MDA.

  150. ruruland

    Frank O.: This game is happening because of Portland.

    Haha….. Maybe, but they just need one or two of these.

    Let’s see what happens. Seen this before. Firing might have been exactly what the team needed……

  151. Frank O.

    Howard apparently has opted in for the next season. He had lunch with some players from the team and he informed the team he planned to opt in.

  152. llcoolbp

    jon abbey: how about a Ewing/Howard package deal? maybe they can hire Mason, Oakley and Starks as assistant coaches too.

    how scary would it be for the opponent to see those guys sitting on the bench as coaches. By the way the coaches are allowed to come on the court during a brawl.

  153. llcoolbp

    ess-dog:
    Breen is bugging the crap outta me.If you’re so into ethics, go be a judge!

    I agree. The knicks have lost 6 straight. The subs are in. They re just having fun. Breen needs to get off his high horse.

  154. Richmond County

    I don’t agree with Mike and Clyde on this sportsmanship talk. I want this Knicks team to score 150 every single night. It’s not the Knicks fault Portland is awful.

  155. Degree_Absolute

    Yeah, Shump is lucky Crazy Eyes is on the bench. WTF are we doing throwing up alley oops with 15 seconds left and the shot clock turned off.

  156. Degree_Absolute

    llcoolbp:
    the heat were throwing down alley oops all game against the knicks last time out. I didn’t hear any talk about sportsmanship.

    Breen wasn’t calling that game. It was Mike Tirico or some other ESPN anti-Knicks douche who was probably yucking it up.

    The Knicks should not be emulating those assholes anyway.

  157. TheXman

    Honestly all the 3′s were nice, but they don’t really mean shit. How ’bout we do that in a real game. All that celebrating was kind of annoying since they were already up 30, hilarious JR Smith is acting like he just won a championship. I remember he was moping off his ass vs. the Sixers when he cost the Knicks huge turnovers.

  158. ruruland

    cgreene: Of course Knicks ruin a feel better situation by showing no class at the end

    Oh, c’mon streetball and And1 and all that are pervasive cultural phenomenons and have been for 25 years.

    if you don’t want them to dunk on you foul them hard. The Knicks had fun tonight, the last thing you want them to worry about is hurting the feelings of the opponent.

    Rubbing it is part of the sports culture today, it’s everywhere at all levels in football.

    Who cares what they think. If they have a problem, play harder.

  159. Nick C.

    Wow! I was out and watched on DVR. Lets hope this wasn’t a mirage. I guess McMillan will be available but after watching this would we want him.

  160. matte sideburns

    This game sums up the season pretty well. How many games have we had that have told us nothing about the kind of team we are? Losses with Stat/Melo/Chandler injured. Wins against poor opposition. We come out of this one knowing nothing more than we did going in.
    That’s why I’m fine with MDA resigning/being fired. He wasn’t going to get an extension so why drag it out? Short of a miraculous playoff run there was nothing in it for him or the team.
    Now instead of having the whole season as a failure, we have 24 games to achieve something and maybe go into the playoffs feeling more positive.

  161. Shad0wF0x

    I don’t agree with not running up the score since the Heat and Celtics have poured it onto this team before.

  162. nicos

    ruruland:
    Guys playing with more freedom on offense. Chandler with post up haven’t seen that all year.

    If MDA had been more willing to incorporate other things in the offense maybe this kind of game would have happened earlier…..

    More freedom? Come on, Chandler posted up once- other than that it was exactly the same offense they’ve been running (with the exception of Melo not busting plays). I’d add that they still gave up too many offensive rebounds and turned the ball over too much. The difference was energy level and making shots (both Melo and JR from three) that they’ve been missing, period.

  163. max fisher-cohen

    Wow was Portland embarrassingly terrible that game. I guess that’s not that surprising. They started the season winning 7 of 9, so they’re 12-20 since then. Raymond Felton was just embarrassingly terrible.

    There goes any shot that Melo gets moved before the deadline. I guess that’s fine. Once we go to the Melo ISO bullshit and we don’t play a team that turns the ball over every other possession, Stoudemire will utterly disappear, Lin will struggle, Fields will struggle. I mean, I don’t know why I have to say this. WE watched the disaster of Melo isos for the first 22 games or so…

  164. jon abbey

    nicos: The difference was energy level

    and to me this was largely on D’Antoni, the inconsistent energy levels recently were inexcusable, especially for big chunks of that Philly home game. the players have their share of blame too, but MDA just was never good at utilizing his personnel while here, and this latest roster is an especially tough one to juggle.

    I also saw two well-run plays out of timeouts tonight, when was the last time we had one of those?

  165. ruruland

    TheXman: Honestly all the 3?s were nice, but they don’t really mean shit. How ’bout we do that in a real game. All that celebrating was kind of annoying since they were already up 30, hilarious JR Smith is acting like he just won a championship. I remember he was moping off his ass vs. the Sixers when he cost the Knicks huge turnovers.

    The players personalities aren’t what you desire. the dynamics are not the same from those old Knicks teams, but this team needed to start feeling good again.

    Unfortunately, MDA is the $40 million martyr, poor guy can’t coach a team he never really liked in the first place (outside of Lin).

  166. ruruland

    nicos: More freedom? Come on, Chandler posted up once- other than that it was exactly the same offense they’ve been running (with the exception of Melo not busting plays). I’d add that they still gave up too many offensive rebounds and turned the ball over too much. The difference was energy level and making shots (both Melo and JR from three) that they’ve been missing, period.

    For the most part they stayed 4-out, but they broke it more than they had in the past — or perhaps it appeared that they were embracing breaking it more often.

  167. er

    Lmao predictable…early in the season the PGs were Douglas Bibby and shump ….completely diff senario now

    max fisher-cohen:
    Wow was Portland embarrassingly terrible that game. I guess that’s not that surprising. They started the season winning 7 of 9, so they’re 12-20 since then. Raymond Felton was just embarrassingly terrible.

    There goes any shot that Melo gets moved before the deadline. I guess that’s fine. Once we go to the Melo ISO bullshit and we don’t play a team that turns the ball over every other possession, Stoudemire will utterly disappear, Lin will struggle, Fields will struggle. I mean, I don’t know why I have to say this. WE watched the disaster of Melo isos for the first 22 games or so…

  168. ruruland

    max fisher-cohen: Wow was Portland embarrassingly terrible that game. I guess that’s not that surprising. They started the season winning 7 of 9, so they’re 12-20 since then. Raymond Felton was just embarrassingly terrible. There goes any shot that Melo gets moved before the deadline. I guess that’s fine. Once we go to the Melo ISO bullshit and we don’t play a team that turns the ball over every other possession, Stoudemire will utterly disappear, Lin will struggle, Fields will struggle. I mean, I don’t know why I have to say this. WE watched the disaster of Melo isos for the first 22 games or so…

    melo isos have been a disaster on every team he played on — they all won in spite of Anthony isos, that’s why they’re championship contenders now– they all are playing much better without Melo.

    The Knicks will never run another pick and roll once Woodson and Melo begin to implement the plot to destroy the team tommorow.

  169. jxbeirne

    Oakley.

    llcoolbp:
    Speaking of which, who do you guys want to see coach this team? Woodson, Jackson, van gundy, sloan, calipari, Ewing? I wouldn’t mind any of those guys except woodson.

  170. max fisher-cohen

    er:
    Lmao predictable…early in the season the PGs were Douglas Bibby and shump ….completely diff senario now

    That’s the tihing. PG doesn’t matter in an ISO offense. All he has to do is hit jumpshots. Bibby would be a perfect PG if he could play any defense.

  171. ruruland

    er: Lmao predictable…early in the season the PGs were Douglas Bibby and shump ….completely diff senario now

    It was Melo’s fault they couldn’t make open shots. Neither Amar’e or Lin can play well alongside Melo.

  172. ruruland

    max fisher-cohen: That’s the tihing. PG doesn’t matter in an ISO offense. All he has to do is hit jumpshots. Bibby would be a perfect PG if he could play any defense.

    So true. No team has ever been able to succesfully incorporate a wing/post player who creates double teams with a pg that excels penetrating to the basket– both in pnr and against the rotation.

  173. art vandelay

    Worst Plus/Minus for 2-Man Combos
    Last 10 Knicks Games
    Anthony-Stoudemire -58 <> -33 before February 20th

  174. art vandelay

    The best combo for the Knicks over last 10 games? Jared Jeffries and Steve Novak (+28).

    The best combo for the Knicks this season? Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak (+122).

  175. max fisher-cohen

    ruruland: melo isos have been a disaster on every team he played on — they all won in spite of Anthony isos, that’s why they’re championship contenders now– they all are playing much better without Melo.

    The Knicks will never run another pick and roll once Woodson and Melo begin to implement the plot to destroy the team tommorow.

    First of all, it’s Dolan’s plot, and he’s been quite successful at it since he initiated it about twelve years ago. This is a continuation of a very clear pattern.

  176. er

    It wasn’t an iso offense melo was point forward what r u talking about

    max fisher-cohen: That’s the tihing. PG doesn’t matter in an ISO offense. All he has to do is hit jumpshots. Bibby would be a perfect PG if he could play any defense.

  177. max fisher-cohen

    er:
    It wasn’t an iso offense melo was point forward what r u talking about

    Knicks were first in the NBA in percentage of isolation plays pre-Linsanity. They were 5th worse at scoring out of those plays. Who do you think was isolating all those times? Mike Bibby?

  178. Z-man

    Next 2 games should speak volumes about who we really are. Home and home with a conference rival, very good matchups. A split would be the most likely outcome but either 2 wins or 2 losses will be very telling about the rest of the season. Being that the Pacers have a decent but not great PG, I like our chances.

  179. bockadoo

    i didn’t see the game. was jr smith REALLY celebrating like he won the championship after hitting a few 3 pointers up by 30 something? was he REALLY? why wasn’t he taken out of the game immediately or maybe after the second one? is he mentally ill? is he doing mushrooms? has he forgotten that his ridiculously poor play has contributed to a good man losing his job? his team lost 8 of 10 and 6 in a row and he’s CELEBRATING beating a slumping team by 40 points?! no one should be celebrating anything. melo sulking when things didn’t go his way? what is wrong with these guys? how can you build a championship contender with baby assholes like this? no character, just characters. great talent, will crack under any kind of pressure if they ever even get in a big game situation. what a joke of a franchise from top to bottom. Chandler, Stat, Jeffries, Lin, Novak (was he celebrating too – no one mentioned that), Shump (i heard he threw an alley oop at the end – that’s a rookie thing more than anything else – that guy hustles every second he’s out there), Fields, Jorts can stay, Melo, Davis, Smith should hit the road at the deadline.

  180. Bruno Almeida

    @288

    welcome to the very healthy and championship winner-like attitude of your 2011-2012 New York Knicks….

  181. Bruno Almeida

    by the way, Novak should never do the fucking championship belt thing again until he actually wins something.

  182. nicos

    er:
    oh no lbj iso post up….the worst play ever lmao

    One, LBJ scores much more efficiently out of iso’s and two, he’s a much, much, better passer so he’s able to create for others out of iso’s far better than Melo. The fact is Melo doesn’t score particularly well out of iso’s- this year Melo’s scored .7 points per isolation play. Compare that to Amar’e scoring 1.23 ppp in pnr’s and you can see why D’A didn’t want to run iso’s as a first option.

  183. Doug

    Bruno Almeida:
    by the way, Novak should never do the fucking championship belt thing again until he actually wins something.

    INCORRECT

    Should he get off your lawn while you shake your fist at him from your rocking chair, too?

  184. A Voice of Reason

    Doug: INCORRECT

    Should he get off your lawn while you shake your fist at him from your rocking chair, too?

    HA!

  185. 8missedYet

    Bruno Almeida:
    by the way, Novak should never do the fucking championship belt thing again until he actually wins something.

    A. Roger was doing it before he won a Super Bowl. Novak is a big Packers fan and Rogers tweet that he okay with him doing the Novak Doublecheck.

  186. bockadoo

    Bruno – yes. I can see celebrating in a close game, but that shit they did tonight actually ruined a freakin’ 40 point win. If Woodson benches somebody for it, I hope he coaches the team for the next 10 years. Would love to trade Melo, but DWill seems like a jerk and Howard not much better. Wade and LeBron seem obsessed with winning, these other guys want ego stat bullshit. Watching this Bulls-Heat game, it’s like watching a different league. Rose not playing and they are up 17 on the Heat. Holy shit.

  187. Bruno Almeida

    8missedYet: A. Roger was doing it before he won a Super Bowl.Novak is a big Packers fan and Rogers tweet that he okay with him doing the Novak Doublecheck.

    but Rodgers went there and won it.

    it’s still stupid to do it, if LeBron did it once everybody would be murdering him for that… Oakley would probably kill him if he was on this team.

    this team has too many stupid antics and no hustle.

  188. johnlocke

    +1 Portland’s performance was the worst I’ve seen by an NBA team all season. What is wrong with them? Having said that our defense was aggressive and guys put in effort which is nice. JR Smith also hit a shot…yay!

    Frank O.: This game is happening because of Portland.

  189. The Infamous Cdiggy

    bockadoo:
    Bruno – yes.I can see celebrating in a close game, but that shit they did tonight actually ruined a freakin’ 40 point win. If Woodson benches somebody for it,I hope he coaches the team for the next 10 years.Would love to trade Melo, but DWill seems like a jerk and Howard not much better.Wade and LeBron seem obsessed with winning, these other guys want ego stat bullshit.Watching this Bulls-Heat game,it’s like watching a different league.Rose not playing and they are up 17 on the Heat.Holy shit.

    OK the alley-oop attempt, once I saw there was only 13 seconds left in the game, I thought was bush. Other than that, given what this team’s been through, it was a chance for them to exhale and blow off some steam. Let em… we should be so lucky for them to duplicate such a performance again.

  190. bockadoo

    @300 – what this team has been through is their own fault mostly. Sloppy play, poor shooting, pouting attitudes…Also, these are supposedly grown men making millions. They shouldn’t be given slack like you suggest – that’s how kids are treated, not multi millionaire adults. Be professional. No excuse for kicking a team struggling worse than you are. Hot dogging bullshit makes me embarrassed to be a fan of this team, and I’ve been one for a long time.

  191. BangBang

    From the RZA interview on Grantland:

    “Well, I’ll support the Knicks … but I’ll bet on the Lakers. Only because the Knicks, for my entire history growing up — and I’ve been to Knicks games, and I’ve bet on them, and I always lost my money. They let you down! I hate to say it, but they do.”

    We beat Portland, who are in just as big of an upheaval as we are. The next two games will truly be telling. Would love for us to get it together but see quote above.

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