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Sunday, September 21, 2014

2012 Game Thread: New York v. Atlanta

Did you know that today is the one-year anniversary of the Melo trade? I had no idea. Well, anyhow, here is your thread to discuss what is could be a big game for the Knicks, as they surely don’t want to enter the All-Star break on a 3-game losing streak (this is not to say that they could not win against Miami after losing tonight).

252 comments on “2012 Game Thread: New York v. Atlanta

  1. formido

    The Knicks are probably gonna lose this game. They’re definitely going to lose the next game. And it won’t be the end of the world.

    It took Miami half of last season to get to championship form. It took them until NOW to get to transcendent form. Practice makes perfect. Perfect won’t be today.

  2. Nick C.

    In honor of Jon Abbey LIN LIN albeit a post late. I think the Knicks can’t fumble and rim out like last game. Willie Green at 2G instead of Joe Johnson should be a plus for the Knicks. I’m cautiously optimistic.

  3. domiknick

    Nick C.:
    Willie Green at 2G instead of Joe Johnson should be a plus for the Knicks. I’m cautiously optimistic.

    Haven’t you learned? Average backup player will now have a career game against us. Lol.

  4. Nick C.

    Landry and Lin with some nice drives to start. Beatutiful back door by T-1000 and fast break Melo to Fields. They are sucking on the inbounds pass.

  5. Nick C.

    domiknick: Haven’t you learned?Average backup player will now have a career game against us. Lol.

    Those were the old Knicks or at least that’s my fantasy.

  6. limpidgimp

    Amar’e already gave up 3 baskets because he didn’t get back in time to play defense. Smith alone already darted out twice for easy points.

  7. max fisher-cohen

    Wow, so by my count 8 points given up off lazy play — either not getting back on D or throwing away inbounds.

  8. Nick C.

    Can’t say I’m crazy about two guys beating the Knicks downcourt after rebounds for uncontested layups. Amare was in the picture on both. I don’t know if that is coincidence, laziness in getting beat on his part or him being the hustliest guy.

  9. DRed

    I don’t know if Amare is done, or just never got in shape, or has an injury we don’t know about, but I do know that he’s not a good basketball player right now.

  10. Nick C.

    I like how even with the shooters lineup, Novak, Melo, Davis and JR they looked lively on defense (for the two possessions they were on the court together) .

  11. dogrufus

    I can’t be the only one disturbed by the fact that we look so much better when Jeffries is on the court than when Amare is.

  12. Nick C.

    I wonder if there is a Hawk board are they complaining about the refs? The Knicks are on the line a lot to close out the quarter.

  13. Mulligan

    Nick C.:
    I wonder if there is a Hawk board are they complaining about the refs? The Knicks are on the line a lot to close out the quarter.

    But the hawks keep making stupid reach in fouls. They’re pretty obvious no?

  14. dogrufus

    Fun fact: Every player that has touched the court has positive +/- tonight other than Amare. How is that even possible?

    ::sadface::

  15. Will the Thrill

    You know what would be fun? Imagine Amare guarding Amare. Maybe not this year, but I would predict that they both Amares would have 50+ points with 15 dunks each. He has the exact offensive game that he can’t defend at all.

  16. dogrufus

    Jeffries with yet another defensive play.

    Why the fuck isn’t “charges drawn” kept as a mainstream stat?

  17. domiknick

    Remember when we hated Jeffries because he was our overpaid PF/C, and then got replaced by A’mare at PF/C to the delight of most, but who now seems like an overpaid PF/C, who, when replaced by Jeffries, our now underpaid PF/C, we all delight? I don’t know if “irony” is the right word, but it’s the only one I can think of right now.

  18. Brian Cronin

    Remember when we hated Jeffries because he was our overpaid PF/C, and then got replaced by A’mare at PF/C to the delight of most, but who now seems like an overpaid PF/C, who, when replaced by Jeffries, our now underpaid PF/C, we all delight? I don’t know if “irony” is the right word, but it’s the only one I can think of right now.

    Amar’re replaced David Lee.

    Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate how weird it is that we all love Jeffries now after thinking poorly of him for so long.

  19. Mulligan

    Also, Smith seems to have some weird connection with Novak. How many times have we seen him pass to an open Novak in the last two games already?

  20. dogrufus

    Will the Thrill:
    You know what would be fun? Imagine Amare guarding Amare. Maybe not this year, but I would predict that they both Amares would have 50+ points with 15 dunks each. He has the exact offensive game that he can’t defend at all.

    Unfortunately I don’t think the present version of Amare could get 50 points and 15 dunks even if he was the only player on the court and wasn’t guarded by anyone.

  21. thyrdrail

    man, knicks totally boring playing without lin. no wonder entire world goes crazy for him. he definitely makes basketball more fun to watch.

  22. Brian Cronin

    Also, Smith seems to have some weird connection with Novak. How many times have we seen him pass to an open Novak in the last two games already?

    The Knicks have a bunch of interesting duos going on right now.

    Lin/Novak
    Lin/Chandler
    Lin/Jeffries
    Fields/Smith
    Fields/Melo
    Novak/Smith

  23. Will the Thrill

    That’s why I said, “Maybe not this year”. Still, I think he would fair very well against himself.

    dogrufus: Unfortunately I don’t think the present version of Amare could get 50 points and 15 dunks even if he was the only player on the court and wasn’t guarded by anyone.

  24. Brian Cronin

    Dammit, Brian, you messed up my little story. JK, but hopefully you got whatever point I was trying to make there.

    I did! I even edited my piece to note that I do appreciate the oddity of our feelings toward Jeffries.

  25. dogrufus

    Baron looking just brutal. Missed Smith for a wide open three, a bunch of turnovers…

    Yikes. Might as well get it out of his system now.

  26. Mulligan

    “How can you leave Novak open?” – Clyde
    How, indeed? Seriously. I think (with the exception of Bibby who doesn’t count because he doesn’t play) I like everyone on our team for the first time in a long time. Definitely helping me get over my mourning for the team of the first half of last year. We’ve got a bunch of good, interesting players.

  27. Will the Thrill

    Baron Davis is the new Lin. Without the youth, points, and passing. At least he’s got the TOs

  28. Mulligan

    definitely premature, but if we win and philly loses, we’re only 3 games behind. I think we have more talent and more depth going into the second half. We’ve had the easiest schedule thus far, but philly’s had the 5th easiest schedule, so their second half is legitimately challenging as well. I don’t think it’s crazy to think we could overtake them for first in the atlantic division and get the 4th seed.

  29. dogrufus

    Nick C.:
    By the way isn’t it nice to have a competent bench?

    I dunno man, that JR Smith really ruins out chemistry with his active defense, strong shooting, and ridiculous athleticism.

  30. Juany8

    Quick guys let’s trade everyone before it’s too late!!!

    Sorry for the sarcasm, I for one am glad this team is being given a chance to work out it’s issues, and I absolutely love the sight of Melo getting easy shots for the first time this season. JR has been fantastic, and I’m still optimistic about Baron being effective once he gets back in shape, which he now has time to do.

  31. massive

    This offense is running so well. I was watching ESPN First Take this afternoon, and they said that the Heat are going to destroy us. Of course it was Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith talking, but I think that’s the consensus around the national media. I hope they have another thing coming tomorrow.

  32. Will the Thrill

    This team is looking great, even with Amare playing so poorly. But, these Hawks have been pretty darn bad today.

  33. Mulligan

    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there a name for when a player sets a pick behind a defender, rather than next to? What’s the point of that? Just to slow down a player when they try to back up?

  34. hoolahoop

    If MDA has any brains he’ll give some rest to the guys who need it for tomorrow’s game (Lin, chandler, Amare…)

  35. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    We’ll see, huh?

    And how about Landry? Was that reverse layup not “creating” his own shot?

  36. Mulligan

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Baron Davis sucks. Surprise!

    Also the timing of your comment just further confirms what everyone seems to think, that you’re not watching the game, just the stats. Davis was last in with around 7 minutes left in the quarter, which was at least 15 minutes ago.

  37. massive

    Mulligan:
    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there a name for when a player sets a pick behind a defender, rather than next to? What’s the point of that? Just to slow down a player when they try to back up?

    Sounds like a back screen. That usually happens off the ball and it clears the lane for an alley-oop or an interior pass. But on the ball, it probably helps when the ball-handler is trying to drive and it will free him from the on-ball defender.

  38. Kikuchiyo

    Is there a team in the league with less heart than Atlanta? Every year they look like they just don’t give a damn. I’m almost hoping they try harder in the second half.

    [Please stay in NY, Osi.]

  39. ruruland

    massive: Sounds like a back screen. That usually happens off the ball and it clears the lane for an alley-oop or an interior pass. But on the ball, it probably helps when the ball-handler is trying to drive and it will free him from the on-ball defender.

    Called down screen.

  40. Doug

    massive: C’mon, that’s a bit harsh for a guy coming off a back injury playing in only his second game of a shortened season. I doubt he’ll be this bad all year.

    Cock Jowles ignoring sample size and not observing proper statistical procedure? Perish the thought!

  41. Juany8

    Baron Davis has still been an upgrade over Bibby and Douglas already lol. He’s made some excellent passes and has played solid defense. he’s obviously beyond rusty and he hasn’t practiced or played in 10 months, which would hurt anyone. Even if his only improvement comes in conditioning, he’s still a massive upgrade over what we were working with, the two worst players in the NBA. Considering that Bill Walker also got benched, we may finally have a full rotation of capable professional players, and we haven’t even gotten Jorts back.

  42. Doug

    Mulligan: Also the timing of your comment just further confirms what everyone seems to think, that you’re not watching the game, just the stats. Davis was last in with around 7 minutes left in the quarter, which was at least 15 minutes ago.

    We should just quiz him on details of the MSG broadcast to keep him honest. Quick, what was Osi Umenyora wearing tonight?

  43. Mulligan

    Kikuchiyo:
    Is there a team in the league with less heart than Atlanta? Every year they look like they just don’t give a damn. I’m almost hoping they try harder in the second half.

    It is pretty amazing that a team with as much talent as they’ve had in the last few years has never really amounted to much. They never made it to the 2nd round did they? And even when they did reasonably well in the regular season, they never looked like they were that great.

  44. ruruland

    Thing that stands out to me from statistical perspective is the assist rate…… was great against NJ and great tonight….

  45. EB

    massive: Who’s having the better game; Landry or Lin?

    Remember when everyone said we had the best frontcourt in the league and that was it? Seems like a long time ago doesn’t it

  46. ephus

    Atlanta has one second round appearance — last year when they eliminated Orlando.

    Even with the 25 point lead, the Knicks have not been hitting on all cylinders. Amar’e, as a few have noted, does not look sharp. Melo is still shaking off the rust and has at least two uncharacteristic turnovers. Knicks turned over the ball twice on the in-bounds after a made basket, even though Atlanta was not really applying full court pressure.

    On the other hand, Lin, Fields and Novak have looked great. Smith has looked strong as well. Tyson Chandler has been his usual strong defensive presence.

  47. dogrufus

    I didn’t think i’d ever say it this season but….

    awesome production from our SGs tonight!

    21 pts on 6-9, 4 assists 5 steals

  48. ruruland

    ephus: Atlanta has one second round appearance — last year when they eliminated Orlando.Even with the 25 point lead, the Knicks have not been hitting on all cylinders. Amar’e, as a few have noted, does not look sharp. Melo is still shaking off the rust and has at least two uncharacteristic turnovers. Knicks turned over the ball twice on the in-bounds after a made basket, even though Atlanta was not really applying full court pressure.On the other hand, Lin, Fields and Novak have looked great. Smith has looked strong as well. Tyson Chandler has been his usual strong defensive presence.

    It’s going to be something else when it starts to really come together.

  49. Juany8

    Come on guys, Atlanta made the second round 3 times in the past few years… They haven’t been good in the playoffs compared to the regular season, but that’s generally what happens when you build around a bunch of decent players and overpay them, after a few years you’re not “up and coming, young, and talented” you’re not even getting credit for winning several playoffs.

  50. d-mar

    I know Amare sucks, Amare sucks, Amare sucks, but we can we give him a wee tiny little bit of credit for playing pretty good one on one defense on Josh Smith?

    Ok haters, pile on.

  51. A Voice of Reason

    Good half of ball from our starters not named Amare. He just looks lethargic..no burst inside after great feeds by our playmakers, no midrange game and no respect from the refs means a black hole at the 4. Then the nerve to be angry after he got beat for the third time downcourt..I am rooting for him to get back to his usual production levels, because if we get him to match a Bosh-like impact..mmmm hmmm.
    Melo is thinking too much, but its obvious that he is more than capable of “fitting in with Lin” and being a great extra passer. Its almost like the players are thinking, “damn, did he just find me on the cut???” they need to keep their hands up because outside the baseline pass to fields and the high pass to Lin, he’s been money. Not 100mil, but money.
    Lin is just proving he belongs, and how about his quick hands on defense??
    JR Smith was great in Denver, any Nuggets fan will tell you they miss him, and we are so much better with him on the floor.

    A lineup of Lin, Shumpert, Smith, Melo, and Chandler/Amare will be beastly come playoff time.

    Here’s to some garbage time tonight!
    Lets go Knicks!

  52. massive

    ephus:
    Correction — Atlanta also made it to the second round in 2010 when they eliminated the Bucks.

    They made it in 2009 when they got swept by LeBron’s Cavs, 2010 when they got swept by the Orlando Magic (and Woodson was fired), and last year when they lost in 6 to the Chicago Bulls. So, that’s 3 years in a row.

  53. daJudge

    I’ve been alternating between writing a new song (which is coming out well, thank you very much) and taking copious notes on this game. I played in my over 50 league today. My entire family is out of the house for the night and I have rare solitude, which some of us can appreciate, right? The only thing I wrote in quotes was that this team is really, really talented and they are starting to trust one another. Trust. OK, I lied. I did disparage and profane STAT on Ash Wednesday, but let’s see what happens. I’m, also not Catholic, but, you know, I hedge my bets. In the past, I have cut down Fields, but he looks really polished tonight. That was probably a stupid reaction to THCJ, who is annoying, but correct very often. Good for that nice cool kid. Isn’t this a squad that we can we get together and embrace, including Melo? The way I see it, you either switch on picks, or plow through them. Know what I mean?

  54. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    Is my editing of the posts allowable to appease the superstitions?

    just checking back now, but kudos.

    JR Smith is a force of nature, so exciting how hard he is playing. and once Baron realizes that Jeffries inside is not a better option than Smith and Novak at the 3 point line WIDE OPEN, he is going to start piling up assists. he creates a lot of space in the halfcourt, very excited he’s finally back.

  55. Nick C.

    d-mar:
    I know Amare sucks, Amare sucks, Amare sucks, but we can we give him a wee tiny little bit of credit for playing pretty good one on one defense on Josh Smith?

    Ok haters, pile on.

    I was going to comment in the first half when he stood his ground and forced a pass to Green for a clang but something more exciting must have happened.

  56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Doug: We should just quiz him on details of the MSG broadcast to keep him honest. Quick, what was Osi Umenyora wearing tonight?

    I wasn’t looking, but he deflected some question about his contract and talked about how shitty a flight to Nigeria is (“first&third world problems”). You were saying?

  57. massive

    At least Amar’e doesn’t take as many long twos as Josh Smith, right? And that’s a shot Amar’e can make.

  58. Will the Thrill

    Yeah, Josh Smith shoots more outside shots than anyone I’ve seen that is not even close on about 75% of them. He should really stick to defense, passing, and finishing.

    massive:
    At least Amar’e doesn’t take as many long twos as Josh Smith, right? And that’s a shot Amar’e can make.

  59. Doug

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: I wasn’t looking, but he deflected some question about his contract and talked about how shitty a flight to Nigeria is (“first&third world problems”). You were saying?

    He said he doesn’t like flying in general, but the long flight in Nigeria was necessary to “see his people.” You get a C+.

  60. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Knicks’ offense is stuck in cement right now. If there’s such a thing as a team “hanging around” being down 20, 19 pts, the Hawks are doing it.

  61. TheXman

    No energy by the knicks, this is awful. Would love to see the headlines if they collapse in the 4th qtr. Jeezus christ.

  62. massive

    The beauty of this team, to me, is that when the offense gets stuck in ruts, we can give it to Melo/JR/Lin, and get two points. This team is extremely talented on that side of the floor.

  63. art vandelay

    Didn’t atlanta just do this (fall behind by 20+) in its last game against chicago only to come up short in crunch time?

  64. The Infamous Cdiggy

    you know how the Nets couldn’t miss from downtown last game? Well, save for Jerry Stackhouse, the Hawks are bricking wide-open treys – badly.

  65. Doug

    After Novak’s Sunday interview in the Post, I’m not surprised at all Amare is the one doing the Black History Month promos.

  66. d-mar

    I know Spiro just said it, but damn, when Lin does that beautiful little stop move where he ends up with a 10 ft. jumper, he sure does remind me of a certain 2 time MVP.

  67. David Crockett

    So,

    Boom Dizzle is really kinda lovin’ him some Steve Novak. He’s been looking for him pretty consistently.

  68. David Crockett

    KnicksFanInVA:
    Novak is a machine.

    As a Mizzou alum from… ahem… way back, you have no idea. We played Marquette in the tourney when Novak played there with D-Wade (before anyone knew who he was).

    Game went to OT, where Novak drained three treys. I MAY forgive him if the Knicks win a playoff series.

  69. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Is Jerome Jordan injured? Or is D’antoni waiting to let him save his job next year?

  70. Nick C.

    Gotta like the starters being able to sit out the last half of the fourth (except Landry). It also served to let BD and JR to get up to speed, though if JR gets any better it will be sick.

  71. TheXman

    Lol weeks ago when we were hoping BDiddy would be our savior. Dear god….THANK YOU FOR LIN THANK YOU.

  72. jon abbey

    TheXman:
    Lol weeks ago when we were hoping BDiddy would be our savior.Dear god….THANK YOU FOR LIN THANK YOU.

    he has six assists in 13 minutes, Monday was the first time he’s played five on five in something like ten months.

  73. David Crockett

    jon abbey: he has six assists in 13 minutes, Monday was the first time he’s played five on five in something like ten months.

    Yeah, not getting the hate on Davis.

  74. Mulligan

    TheXman: Anyone agree with this?

    Not seeing it. I think he gets to relax on some sequences when he let’s Melo take over though. Allows him to save some energy.

  75. DaniD

    TheXman: Anyone agree with this?

    Not at all. He’s playing exactly how a PG should play. Having yet again another good performance. The more I watch him, the more impressed I become.

  76. The Infamous Cdiggy

    spoke too soon about the Hawks not hittin 3s eh?

    You’d think the Knicks could at least hit 100 points after their 60-point first half, eh?

  77. David Crockett

    Frank O.:
    If chandler get hurt out there I’m going to lose my mind

    Agreed. Not getting that move at all when he could have gotten Jordan some burn.

  78. dogrufus

    WHy the fuck are we playing Chandler more minutes than we need to?

    goddammit mda 33 is plenty for him

  79. Juany8

    To be fair they slowed the game down a lot, generally when a team has that big a lead that early it’s going to come down a fair amount. Doesn’t take away from a generally impressive win for a team that has plenty of room for internal improvement.

  80. thyrdrail

    DaniD: Not at all. He’s playing exactly how a PG should play. Having yet again another good performance. The more I watch him, the more impressed I become.

    he’s attacking the net much much less. probably doesnt want to steal melo’s limelight and outscore him.

  81. daaarn

    Didn’t necessarily expect them to maintain a high 20+ point lead, but Knicks gotta take some better shots.

  82. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Frank O.:
    If chandler get hurt out there I’m going to lose my mind

    dogrufus:
    WHy the fuck are we playing Chandler more minutes than we need to?

    goddammit mda 33 is plenty for him

    ask and you all shall receive! Jordan is in!

  83. David Crockett

    cgreene:
    I would have had Melo in the game if I were MDA and given him some more run

    Not off a groin injury — maybe a different injury, but not a groin. Put that thing on ice.

  84. DaniD

    thyrdrail: he’s attacking the net much much less. probably doesnt want to steal melo’s limelight and outscore him.

    He still had 17 pts, 9 assists…very solid game. He’s finding a way to play with Melo which will only become better over time. I’m excited about this team. I think they can do some damage. It’s starting to come together.

  85. Mulligan

    Okay, .500, 7th seed on lock, now let’s hope the 76er’s lose tonight so we can gain some ground on them. Second half surge!

  86. jon abbey

    how the hell is Smith only credited with 5 steals? he had six and he got one more, looking like Ed Reed back there.

    Amare and Melo still have their issues (although some positive signs from both today), but what a bench we have now. 11 deep with Shumpert and Jorts, very exciting.

  87. daaarn

    DaniD: He still had 17 pts, 9 assists…very solid game. He’s finding a way to play with Melo which will only become better over time. I’m excited about this team. I think they can do some damage. It’s starting to come together.

    I know, can’t wait to see what this team can do when they finally get enough playing time/practice together. Hard to believe the current team basically hasn’t had any sort of training camp or extended/dedicated team-building together.

  88. d-mar

    If Memphis can hang on and beat Philly, we’d be 3 games out of the Atlantic Division lead. Doesn’t winning the division mean you can’t be seeded lower than 4th?

  89. Mulligan

    d-mar:
    If Memphis can hang on and beat Philly, we’d be 3 games out of the Atlantic Division lead. Doesn’t winning the division mean you can’t be seeded lower than 4th?

    Houston, but yeah.

  90. cgreene

    Here’s the story. Lin is so for real and so good that he will and should get his shots in the offense. Initially I thought his averages should come down to about 8-10ish shots per game. But his scoring game is vital. The ideal and most successful situation will be:
    Lin – 15% of shots
    Melo – 18%
    Amare – 12%
    Landry – 12%
    Chandler – 9%
    Bench – 35% (led by JR from an attempts basis)

    Basically, this will work with tremendous balance.

  91. The Infamous Cdiggy

    thyrdrail: he’s attacking the net much much less. probably doesnt want to steal melo’s limelight and outscore him.

    Really??? Or are you being sarcastic??

  92. art vandelay

    man kyle lowry is underrated and an excellent overall player, especially at shielding his body from defender and drawing contact at the rim and making the and 1.

  93. Bruno Almeida

    cgreene:
    Here’s the story.Lin is so for real and so good that he will and should get his shots in the offense.Initially I thought his averages should come down to about 8-10ish shots per game.But his scoring game is vital.The ideal and most successful situation will be:
    Lin – 15% of shots
    Melo – 18%
    Amare – 12%
    Landry– 12%
    Chandler – 9%
    Bench – 35% (led by JR from an attempts basis)

    Basically, this will work with tremendous balance.

    one thing that really makes me optimistic is that our second unit can REALLY kill other teams on a good night… on a day where both Novak and J.R are hitting 3′s, with Baron, Shumpert and Jeffries we can blow teams away on any given night.

    amazing how we are suddenly one of the deepest teams in the league.

  94. d-mar

    BTW, Marvin Williams had 0 points in 27 minutes tonight. Is he possibly the worst top 5 pick in the last 10 years?

  95. KnicksFanInVA

    d-mar:
    BTW, Marvin Williams had 0 points in 27 minutes tonight. Is he possibly the worst top 5 pick in the last 10 years?

    Does Oden count? Dude just had his THIRD microfracture surgery.

  96. jon abbey

    I think Fields should be the odd man out/11th man once Shumpert and Jorts are back, Lin/Smith/Davis/Shump should get all 96 backcourt minutes, and Novak/Jeffries/Josh can backup the frontcourt. Fields has been doing some good things (the 3 point shooting is a joke, though), but I think the other 10 are the best team right now.

  97. KnicksFanInVA

    Excerpt from ESPN’s Reaction after Knicks win tonight:
    “DIFFERENCE-MAKER: Amare Stoudemire and the Knicks’ team defense.”

    WTF??

  98. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    KnicksFanInVA:
    Excerpt from ESPN’s Reaction after Knicks win tonight:
    “DIFFERENCE-MAKER: Amare Stoudemire and the Knicks’ team defense.”

    WTF??

    Didn’t you know? All-stars and all-pros are responsible for team success always.

  99. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    d-mar:
    BTW, Marvin Williams had 0 points in 27 minutes tonight. Is he possibly the worst top 5 pick in the last 10 years?

    Seriously? Dude’s got a 0.099 WS/48 for his career, and he’s having a well-above-average season this year. He’s not good enough for a top 5 selection, but we’re talking the last ten years: there have been so many bad selections.

    How about 2006′s Top 5?

    Bargnani (who is one of the worst players in the league at any pick/salary)
    Aldridge (current All-NBA third teamer, maybe)
    Adam Morrison (out of the league)
    Tyrus Thomas
    Shelden Williams

    That’s four out of five below-average-to-awful players.

    In one draft.

    And Jon Abbey, do you realize that even though he might be the best defensive SG in the league right now, he’s got a ts% of .450. In a Mike D’antoni offense. Just think about that.

  100. murph

    jon abbey: I think Fields should be the odd man out/11th man once Shumpert and Jorts are back, Lin/Smith/Davis/Shump should get all 96 backcourt minutes, and Novak/Jeffries/Josh can backup the frontcourt. Fields has been doing some good things (the 3 point shooting is a joke, though), but I think the other 10 are the best team right now.

    respectfully, have to completely disagree here. Yes, Jorts was a nice player in the beginning of the year. But Landry has done it a little longer. People that give Landry grief need to realize the rookie wall, and won’t Jorts hit the same thing? When Shump comes back, yes, give him some minutes at the 2. But Fields needs pt at the 2 & 3. He does enough intangibles to be worth it.

  101. d-mar

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Seriously? Dude’s got a 0.099 WS/48 for his career, and he’s having a well-above-average season this year. He’s not good enough for a top 5 selection, but we’re talking the last ten years: there have been so many bad selections.

    How about 2006?s Top 5?

    Bargnani (who is one of the worst players in the league at any pick/salary)
    Aldridge (current All-NBA third teamer, maybe)
    Adam Morrison (out of the league)
    Tyrus Thomas
    Shelden Williams

    That’s four out of five below-average-to-awful players.

    In one draft.

    And Jon Abbey, if you could stop sniffing Iman’s jock for a second and realize that even though he might be the best defensive SG in the league right now, he’s got a ts% of .450. In a Mike D’antoni offense. Just think about that.

    I’ll give you Morrison, Thomas and S. Williams, although they weren’t 2nd picks in the draft. But would you really rather have Marvin Williams than Bargnani or Aldridge?

  102. jon abbey

    murph: respectfully, have to completely disagree here.Yes, Jorts was a nice player in the beginning of the year.But Landry has done it a little longer.People that give Landry grief need to realize the rookie wall, and won’t Jorts hit the same thing?When Shump comes back, yes, give him some minutes at the 2.But Fields needs pt at the 2 & 3.He does enough intangibles to be worth it.

    so who doesn’t play, Jorts? he is the best backup for Chandler, Jeffries and Novak really should be guarding forwards, plus he can shoot the 3 better than Fields.

    it’s not a permanent thing, but to me if you go to a 10 man rotation and everyone is healthy, Fields is the guy who should sit, I’d rather have both Novak and Jeffries in there over him now. this didn’t occur to me until tonight, but once it did, it seems pretty obvious.

  103. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:

    And Jon Abbey, do you realize that even though Shumpert might be the best defensive SG in the league right now, he’s got a ts% of .450. In a Mike D’antoni offense. Just think about that.

    he’s certainly unpolished on offense, but all the skills are there. he makes the moves, he mostly hasn’t been finishing them, but I’m pretty confident he will be. also he seems to get better on offense down the stretch, not that he’ll be playing then as much now with Smith on board.

  104. TheXman

    d-mar: minutes tonight. Is he possibly the worst top 5 pick in the last 10 years?

    He’s had a pretty efficient year, but yeah he’s not the best 2nd pick out there.

  105. murph

    jon abbey: so who doesn’t play, Jorts? he is the best backup for Chandler, Jeffries and Novak really should be guarding forwards, plus he can shoot the 3 better than Fields. it’s not a permanent thing, but to me if you go to a 10 man rotation and everyone is healthy, Fields is the guy who should sit, I’d rather have both Novak and Jeffries in there over him now. this didn’t occur to me until tonight, but once it did, it seems pretty obvious.

    Can Novak be a stretch 4? Then slide Jeffries to gaurd the backup centers where needed. Yeah, I’m a homer for Landry! :)

    Nice to see the Knicks actually with issues on playing time.

  106. nicos

    I’d have no problem starting Smith over Fields- so much better on defense and will take the open shot, something Fields has been really reluctant to do. I wouldn’t mind Fields playing more three off of the bench- personally, while Novak has shot it well, I’d be fine with him seeing 10-15 minutes rather than 20-25.
    Also on Amar’e- do people on this board realize that if his man- J Smith- releases while Amar’e is shooting a jumper then someone else needs to pick him up in transition. Of the four early leak-outs, only one was really Amar’e’s fault. Melo and Fields were every bit as much to blame for those early fast breaks.

  107. The Infamous Cdiggy

    jon abbey:
    I think Fields should be the odd man out/11th man once Shumpert and Jorts are back, Lin/Smith/Davis/Shump should get all 96 backcourt minutes, and Novak/Jeffries/Josh can backup the frontcourt. Fields has been doing some good things (the 3 point shooting is a joke, though), but I think the other 10 are the best team right now.

    ehhh… not the way he’s (mostly) stepped up over the last two weeks. I actually hope that with the team’s newfound depth that he’ll back up Melo off the bench so he can play his more natural 3-position. Put Shump back at the starting 2 to defend the perimeter as a starter.

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