Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, November 22, 2014

2012 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bucks

Since this is the current “Most Important Game of the Season,” I figured we should give it as much mojo as we possibly could.

This is a game that the Knicks need to win, but moreover, this is a game that the Knicks should win. Milwaukee’s defense is not particularly good for a team with one of the top defensive coaches in the league (put it this way, a Scott Skiles team being 16th in Defensive Efficiency is like a regular team being 160th in Defensive Efficiency) and the Knicks’ problem is that it is difficult for them to score on the top defenses in the league because they can give Melo his points and just not let the other players beat them. Against good defenses, that can be a major problem for the Knicks. Against the Bucks, the Knicks’ supporting cast should perform better.

Of course, they need to have at least one of Smith, Shump, Fields and Novak to show up tonight to give Melo some help.

Last time, both Shump and Smith came through against the Bucks. The Knicks need that again tonight. I’m currently knocking on wood with crossed fingers.

466 comments on “2012 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bucks

  1. d-mar

    Hopefully, Brandon Jennings will feel like it’s all up to him and chuck up some ridiculous shots (that don’t go in of course!)

  2. jon abbey

    (if someone deletes those first two posts, we’ll win. otherwise, it’s on your head.)

  3. art vandelay

    jon abbey:
    Fire Dolan!

    SHUMP SHUMP

    oh, thank goodness…it’s in the bag now!!!

    I figured you had been waiting all day constantly refreshing until the game thread was up to post the new Knicks’ rallying cry/good luck charm…like the Zuckerberg character at the end of the facebook movie!!

  4. Brian Cronin

    How charming is this Marbury story from China? 1,000,000 fans petitioned for the creation of a bronze statue to honor Marbury, because he was ineligible for any MVP awards. That’s a cute story.

  5. jon abbey

    art vandelay:

    I figured you had been waiting all day constantly refreshing until the game thread was up to post the new Knicks’ rallying cry/good luck charm…like the Zuckerberg character at the end of the facebook movie!!

    heh, no, but Brian made it right. as he said, biggest game of the year, gots to come with the A team.

  6. Thomas B.

    jon abbey: heh, no, but Brian made it right. as he said, biggest game of the year, gots to come with the A team.

    Yes, it worked so well against the Bulls last night.

  7. theone811

    Its win or go home plain and simple . Who would have thought biggest game in years would be against Bucks ! LOL

  8. johnlocke

    It was wrong last night. Frank O forgot exclamation mark and all caps shump shump :-)

    Thomas B.: Yes, it worked so well against the Bulls last night.

  9. johnlocke

    Wait what? Someone beat you to it? Ay ya yi

    jon abbey:
    (if someone deletes those first two posts, we’ll win. otherwise, it’s on your head.)

  10. johnlocke

    Tips:
    Stop Mike Dunleavy
    Play defense
    Novak or Smith heat up
    Limit Jennings

    We need at least 3 of above

  11. Thomas B.

    johnlocke:
    Wait what? Someone beat you to it? Ay ya yi

    I just think it is messed up to bump me like I wasn’t even here. Brian should just call Jon and tell him he’s about to post instead pulling that masked editing garbage.

  12. domiknick

    Thomas B.: I just think it is messed up to bump me like I wasn’t even here. Brian should just call Jon and tell him he’s about to post instead pulling that masked editing garbage.

    +1

  13. art vandelay

    Brian Cronin:
    Not seeing much of a defensive effort from Milwaukee, either, which is good!

    Yes, what a difference from what we’ve seen the last 2 games….almost is like a vacation for the offense! Man oh man!

  14. Will the Thrill

    Why has Fields started taking so many pull-up J’s? His shot looks different when he does so. Still sucks though… WOW we are amazing right now though!!!

  15. Brian Cronin

    When the support staff is scoring this efficiently, the Knicks can beat any team in the NBA.

    Woody better let Fields play some in the second quarter.

  16. art vandelay

    great start…but still fearing the dreaded Toney Douglas insertion….if we still have a lead after he goes out, I will feel good about this one!

  17. Will the Thrill

    I would decrease the amount of iso’s for Melo, we are getting easy shots at the rim just by moving the ball around, even if Melo hits a few.

  18. art vandelay

    Will the Thrill:
    I would decrease the amount of iso’s for Melo, we are getting easy shots at the rim just by moving the ball around, even if Melo hits a few.

    +1

  19. Garson

    Come on melo … Shoot that last second 3. We here at knickerblogger don’t care about your percentage.

  20. Z

    Brian Cronin:
    How charming is this Marbury story from China? 1,000,000 fans petitioned for the creation of a bronze statue to honor Marbury, because he was ineligible for any MVP awards. That’s a cute story.

    Wow. Marbury has made 1,000,000 fans this year, yet OccupyMSG only has 48 members… What’s wrong with the world!

  21. art vandelay

    So our season could be torched by Rip Hamilton, Kyle Korver and Mike Dunleavy…hmmm.

  22. steveoh

    I just angrily yelled “Dunleavy!” exactly like how George Jetson’s boss yelled “Jetson!”

    Unfortunately, I did that at work.

    I’m being silently judged.

  23. Nick C.

    Breen may not be the Melo hater that he appears. Twice he said the ball doesn’t move without Melo and Davis on the court. The second time bemoaning the ball being near halfcourt with ten seconds left on the clock.

  24. New Guy

    Um, did JR Smith really just get fooled by the Bucks crowd counting down to 1 early? Seems like he did.

  25. cgreene

    Poor rotations by Woodson. You need to use Novak with Melo. He’s useless with this lineup. He’s only useful when their are other players putting pressure on the defense.

  26. Brian Cronin

    Um, did JR Smith really just get fooled by the Bucks crowd counting down to 1 early? Seems like he did.

    It sure did seem that way. I like JR, but yeah, not always a thinker is he.

  27. art vandelay

    We have the worst PGs literally in the NBA without Lin healthy, and we have 1 consistent scorer, so kinda hard to win…damn this is frustrating.

  28. Sugarjesus

    cgreene:
    Poor rotations by Woodson.You need to use Novak with Melo.He’s useless with this lineup.He’s only useful when their are other players putting pressure on the defense.

    Co-sign!

  29. Nick C.

    Not the best of sequences for (used to have a)R. The defense looks good, everyone in front of their man then one dribble and fake later Ellis is laying it in. Then he turns it over for an easy layup.

  30. dogrufus

    I have the worst plus/minus on the Knicks.

    I tune in when it’s 30-18, cue a 25-6 run by the Bucks.

    This seems to happen virtually every time I watch.

    I saw parts of the Bulls game on Sunday and literally everything good that happened in that game happened when I wasn’t watching.

    You’d think I’d learn not to fucking watch by now.

    Oh well, season’s over.

  31. Sugarjesus

    Remember Milwaukee was where JR smith got fined 25000 for tweeting that pic of the girls booty in his hotel room. Maybe he had a visit from her.

  32. Sugarjesus

    And melo got two techs in their first meeting this season for jawing w jennings in the 4th and got ejected. Lot of blood here

  33. Nick C.

    I’m forgetting who was part of the bench when it was so good bit it’d many of the same guys that are part of the crappy one: Smith, Novak, Jared, Davis when they were good. Was Baron the elixir or just shots falling that aren’t these days.

  34. Sugarjesus

    I reiterate that this past season created a bad blood for these teams. Delano fouled out begin of 4th in game 1 with some hard fouls on melo

  35. art vandelay

    Is part of our defensive strategy tonight to not defend the 3-point line? We have been giving up a lot of non-contested 3’s so far and that isn’t in keeping with how we had been playing defensively of late…..are they tired?

  36. Nick C.

    Brian Cronin:
    Baron was a lot fresher off of the bench. They also used to set screens for Novak.

    I realized after I sent it that Shump was the other guy off the bench.

  37. Frank O.

    johnlocke:
    It was wrong last night. Frank O forgot exclamation mark and all caps shump shump :-)

    Yeah, yeah.
    Itching to do with the Knicks energy. All me

  38. Nick C.

    Baron is so maddening. Physical issues I can deal with but stupidity is another matter. Hes a ten plus year veteran and should know better.

  39. Brian Cronin

    Andrew Bogut just tweeted

    Love how I have family follow me on twitter to gossip to other family about what I’m doing with my life! #stayclassy

    Seriously, Andrew? That needed to be tweeted?

  40. Brian Cronin

    Baron is so maddening. Physical issues I can deal with but stupidity is another matter. Hes a ten plus year veteran and should know better.

    I dunno, I think it just is his game. Like the Facts of Life, you take the bad with the good he gives you.

    All in all, I am positive about this game. Tie game is not a big deal at all. The Knicks should adjust at the half and then kill them in the second half. Melo has to be a matador on defense in the third, though. Can’t have him pick up #4.

  41. art vandelay

    Gideon Zaga:
    Prediction: Knicks hold bucks to <15 in the 3rd qtr

    This is about as bold a prediction as one can make given the Knicks penchant for atrocious 3rd quarters….but I hope you nailed it!

  42. d-mar

    2 questions:

    1) Can Lin play PG on one leg?
    2) Is is just me, or does it sound like Breen is orgasming when Mike Dunleavy scores?

  43. Brian Cronin

    2) Is is just me, or does it sound like Breen is orgasming when Mike Dunleavy scores?

    Nah, it’s not just you, Dunleavy definitely fits into the mold of players Breen likes.

  44. er

    its pretty bad when you have those numbers in a tied game

    er:
    the bench +/- are obscene

    Mike Bibby, PG-12
    J.R. Smith, SG-16
    Novak-12
    Jefferies -5

  45. daJudge

    I’m again hating on BD. I know it’s not really fair. Honestly, I should be venting my ire on TD or Lin’s freaking meniscus. From a causation pov, it kind of seems the same. Major point guard issue and how about this—the Bucks can not stop the Knicks from going strong in the middle. But no one can penetrate and dish and get Chandler the ball legitimately inside. The Bucks have nobody there. Also, why can’t anyone guard DunBIrdy? My head is starting to explode. Bottom line, I don’t care how we win, but win boys…please tonight.

  46. Frank O.

    I take my hat off to those who seem to cut Baron lots of slack. You are more patient than me.
    I Can’t stand his idiocy.
    But he’s all we have.
    My big concern is the poor D were getting from all our guards.
    Baron, Smith, Shump, and dead man walking are getting torched by their tandem.
    And when Tyson was off the court it was way worse.
    And how the hell do they consistently lose Dunleavy? Every time we play that guy, he’s all fucking world. You think they might have watched some tape on him and come up with a containment plan?
    Geez.

  47. JR Sec 112

    Even though it’s said countless times every game thread, I need to say it again. Baron Davis sux.

    I’m guessing the fan bases of every team he played for reached that conclusion, except for the warriors, when he had those two charmed weeks.

  48. d-mar

    My biggest concern is that Ellis is feeling it tonight, so he almost cancels out Carmelo. Take those two away and the Bucks probably have the advantage.

  49. Will the Thrill

    Yeah this is just the kind of game Fields thrives in. Fast paced, alot of easy buckets, and little D

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Fields has a +18…in a tie game!!! That is crazy.

  50. drewbreez

    No but Carmelo rebounds and passes n’stuff now so we’ll be okay.

    d-mar:
    My biggest concern is that Ellis is feeling it tonight, so he almost cancels out Carmelo. Take those two away and the Bucks probably have the advantage.

  51. Frank O.

    We’re in this because of Chandler. 15 boards. The dude is a beast and the only guy playing D

  52. johnlocke

    I think we should give Jorts some burn. Jeffries looks like he’s back to his Jeffrightened self. Davis besides that STUPID behind the back pass was solid. Fields besides shooting jumpers was very good. JR is just unreliable…don’t know what he will do or bring game to game. We need one of JR, Novak or Shump to get hot to win

  53. drewbreez

    Ellis is just too hard to guard without lightning speed. He seems to be taking Shump’s in-ya-face style and playing it against him, which is Ellis’s strength.

    Frank O.:
    Ellis is holding a clinic on Shump. Our man needs to settle down

  54. ABG

    At a certain point you have to just be thankful that Baron is quite clearly destroying his rep and most likely his physical health to help this team. I’ve given up on what he can’t do and just grown to be grateful for what he is giving. #karma

  55. JR Sec 112

    Kudos to Woodson. Willing to change rotation as he saw fields playing great and baron sux, so put in jr for baron.

  56. Will the Thrill

    “help” this team?

    ABG:
    At a certain point you have to just be thankful that Baron is quite clearly destroying his rep and most likely his physical health to help this team. I’ve given up on what he can’t do and just grown to be grateful for what he is giving. #karma

  57. JR Sec 112

    ABG:
    At a certain point you have to just be thankful that Baron is quite clearly destroying his rep and most likely his physical health to help this team. I’ve given up on what he can’t do and just grown to be grateful for what he is giving. #karma

    I’d be thankful if he understood he’s hurt and played smart. Instead he throws running hook shots up. I’m not thankful at all.

  58. Frank O.

    ABG:
    At a certain point you have to just be thankful that Baron is quite clearly destroying his rep and most likely his physical health to help this team. I’ve given up on what he can’t do and just grown to be grateful for what he is giving. #karma

    Way too rational, yogi.

  59. Will the Thrill

    It is INSANE how unlucky we get when the shot clock is winding down on the other team. It seems like no matter what happens, the other team either hits a crazy shot, or gets fouled.

  60. Gideon Zaga

    Woodson is stupid, POST Melo up, wtf is wrong with this man. Maybe he doesn’t want the job.

  61. Will the Thrill

    Wow. We are going to lose our playoff position to the freakin Bucks led by Monta and Jennings.

  62. Will the Thrill

    Dude you just be the coach already lol

    Gideon Zaga:
    Woodson is stupid, POST Melo up, wtf is wrong with this man. Maybe he doesn’t want the job.

  63. d-mar

    A Buck player pulled on Melo’s jersey as he was going by and you could literally see his body pivot, and no call. Unreal.

  64. art vandelay

    d-mar:
    A Buck player pulled on Melo’s jersey as he was going by and you could literally see his body pivot, and no call. Unreal.

    Bucks in general have been playing much more physically defensively than we have.

  65. ephus

    Last time the Knicks faced the Bucks, Jorts brought the Dunleavy reign of terror to an end with a hard foul.

  66. Gideon Zaga

    This is actually a good test for the Knicks, there is just too much speed on the perimeter, same will be on Sunday. Woodson just has to let Melo be Melo and stop being Dantoni. Post the guy up/

    er:
    losing to a 2 man team awesome

    er:
    losing to a 2 man team awesome

    Frank O.:
    I dread playing the Heat

  67. ognyc

    Where do the ESPN broadcasters rank on the inappropriate use of lingo scale? I’m guessing they have to be rapidly approaching Stu Scott territory…

  68. Frank O.

    Will the Thrill:
    You seriously think Melo has played better than Ellis tonight? He has 29 and 10 going into the 4th

    And four steals? If he didn’t have 4 TOs I’d say he was single-handedly destroying the knicks

  69. Gideon Zaga

    Woodson has to post Melo up more, he has to, the absence of a pg makes it hard to run pnr or even conventional plays. Run it through the post and I mean low post, and play Magic offense. If we lose I’m blaming him.

  70. JR Sec 112

    Sad, if they lose this one the playoffs are unlikely and when it’s time to assess blame, it needs to be pinned on baron and jr. The 2 stupidest Knicks. I am starting to hate them both.

  71. er

    its cuz you said by far thats why he said it…melo is right there with him behind…but not by far

    Will the Thrill:
    You seriously think Melo has played better than Ellis tonight? He has 29 and 10 going into the 4th

  72. Frank O.

    Gideon Zaga:
    Woodson has to post Melo up more, he has to, the absence of a pg makes it hard to run pnr or even conventional plays. Run it through the post and I mean low post, and play Magic offense. If we lose I’m blaming him.

    Wait….just to be clear… You want Woodson to post Melo up?
    Just want to be clear, because, you know it takes four or five times for something to get through. Lol
    Oh, and you can’t post Melo from the bench.:)

  73. ephus

    That was a great foul by Shumpert. If that play continues to develop, the Bucks would have had a wide open 3.

  74. BigBlueAL

    Knicks picked a great time to play arguably their worst defensive game of the season. Bucks shooting close to 60% and we are in the 4th quarter already.

    Fire D’Antoni!!

  75. Gideon Zaga

    WOODSON IS A FUCKING IDIOT, A FOOL, A STUPID COACH, FOOL. THAT’S WHAT YOU GET WHEN U LET HIM BRING THE BALL UP. IDIOT. GIVE THE BALL TO HIM IN THE FUCKING POST.

  76. Frank O.

    And Jeffries seems to be shooting at a much smaller, infinitesimally smaller hoop, than the rest of the players out there.
    There was a time, briefly, when he made some layups…

  77. SLY

    GG season. If Melo is injured….

    mean what luck, Lin with ankle, Stat with back, Chandler with elbow, Baron with hamstring now Melo with wrist… who’s left, Bibby and co.?

  78. Gideon Zaga

    don’t patronize me son and while u do that our season goes down the drain

    Frank O.: Wait….just to be clear… You want Woodson to post Melo up?
    Just want to be clear, because, you know it takes four or five times for something to get through. Lol
    Oh, and you can’t post Melo from the bench.:)

  79. Thomas B.

    What the hell? They call a tech for him being hurt? Oh that is wrong, so very wrong. That is as wrong as editing a comment so it appears that it wasn’t posted when it actually was.

  80. BigBlueAL

    Gideon Zaga:
    WOODSON IS A FUCKING IDIOT, A FOOL, A STUPID COACH, FOOL. THAT’S WHAT YOU GET WHEN U LET HIM BRING THE BALL UP. IDIOT. GIVE THE BALL TO HIM IN THE FUCKING POST.

    You hated D’Antoni and now Woodson too?? Maybe just maybe its not all the coach’s fault??

  81. Nick C.

    Gideon Zaga:
    WOODSON IS A FUCKING IDIOT, A FOOL, A STUPID COACH, FOOL. THAT’S WHAT YOU GET WHEN U LET HIM BRING THE BALL UP. IDIOT. GIVE THE BALL TO HIM IN THE FUCKING POST.

    You’re not exactly a coaches best friend. Hahaha

  82. Will the Thrill

    1 assist to 10. and leading the rebounding battle by 2 to a small SG. I’d say melo has been by far the best of the two tonight.

    er:
    its cuz you said by far thats why he said it…melo is right there with him behind…but not by far

  83. Caleb

    This is the most frustrating game I’ve seen in a long time.

    I figured the Knicks were underdogs in this one, but they just look totally drained from the intense Chicago games.

    It’s a bigger game for the Bucks than for the Knicks… Milwaukee losing would close to finish off their season.

  84. Frank O.

    This is the time to clamp down and put this team down.
    Melo and Chandler for the duration.
    Why is Fields on the bench? He’s playing well

  85. New Guy

    It’s never been clear to me what JR has done to warrant the immense faith Woodson has shown him. Mr Accountabilty doesn’t seem to be doing what he said he would. His faith in JR will probably be the reason he doesn’t keep this job.

  86. David Crockett

    rohank:
    I feel like Melo gets mauled on every position, but our guys get called for ticky tack fouls.

    That’s how it is on the road.

  87. ognyc

    New Guy:
    It’s never been clear to me what JR has done to warrant the immense faith Woodson has shown him.Mr Accountabilty doesn’t seem to be doing what he said he would.His faith in JR will probably be the reason he doesn’t keep this job.

    JR’s like the hot girl who shows you flashes…you can’t not keep going back for more

  88. Gideon Zaga

    really no foul, at least the only thing that D’antoni did well was bitch and moan at the refs. Come on Woodson where is your passion and post the guy up. Is it so hard to see that the high screen and roll isn’t exactly working.

  89. Caleb

    Coming from someone (me) who just said this is the most frustrating game i’ve seen in a long time:

    Chill!

    Even if we lose we’re tied, with 8 games to go. Yes, we lose the tiebreaker, but we’re still in decent position.

    Of course as I write this Smith gets a bogus foul, Chandler throws it away and Shump goes up weak and gets stuffed.

  90. art vandelay

    SLY:
    tidy upthe fouls and stop throwing the ball out, ffs 17 Turnovers..

    of the 17, 5 must have been of the completely unforced, brainfart variety as the knicks seem to commit them like that all the time!

  91. Frank O.

    Owen:
    Wow Udoh is long…

    Not sure why Smith is in there instead of Fields…

    Where is fields. He gives the bucks fits

  92. David Crockett

    Owen:
    This game deserves some sort of Bad Shot Hall of Fame designation…

    Oh, I think last night is up for consideration as well…

  93. Frank O.

    Smith is arguably the most screwy player I’ve watched.
    All over the fucking place.

    And I’m tired of screaming for a pass to a lonely Novak

  94. David Crockett

    Caleb:
    haha, can you imagine what we’d be saying if MbM were on the Knicks, jacking those up?

    Jeffries, who I love, misses LAYUPS that bad.

  95. Will the Thrill

    how the %#$^ do we have 101 points right now? Our offense has felt terrible all game long, except Melo. But looking at the box score, it has actually been pretty good. The defense hasn’t though.

  96. David Crockett

    Seems like we should at least TRY trapping when teams PnR off Tyson Chandler. Make the dribbler pick it up, and save Tyson some fouls. We always play it the same.

  97. SLY

    ffs. have a sinking feeling about this, how many opportunities u wanna give the bucks to score, cmon man

  98. Caleb

    Good thing Woody warned about no 2nd shots. Can you imagine how many tries the Bucks would have had if he hadn’t reminded them?

  99. David Crockett

    Not necessarily defending Woody, but his thinking behind playing JR over Fields has to be that between JR and Shump he almost has one PG on the floor.

  100. Nick C.

    Monster 3 by JR after Melo makes a tough shot. Thankfully they finally got a D rebound after what seemed like a kajillion shots by the Bucks

  101. Doug

    Novak has taken so few free throws this season, that those last 2 bumped up his percentage back into the 90’s.

  102. Caleb

    If Knicks win… 2nd half of a back to back… on the road… short-handed, coming off those two Chicago games.. and after that abominable first half.. this will go down as a gutty win.

  103. New Guy

    Gideon Zaga:
    If Woodson doesn’t fouled, he gets fired in my mind immediately

    And Udoh had the ball for 4 seconds, no less. We’re lucky that worked out.

  104. David Crockett

    Wow!

    Was that the most generous TO awarded you have ever seen!? That looked like a jump ball all the way.

  105. Owen

    Cautiously optimistic….

    We were lucky they didn’t call a foul on Shump running into Moute. Although I would have been ok with him at the line…

  106. er

    man i love the heart of this team i dont care what the negative nancys say… they may not be the most talented but they sure do have HUGE balls and a HUGE HEART

    Go NYK

  107. Caleb

    Glad the Wiz beat Orlando the other night… makes it harder for the Nix to take that one for granted.

  108. d-mar

    Wow, I never thought when they were down 8 they would win this game. JR and Melo the heroes tonight.

  109. Bruno Almeida

    Owen:
    Man….

    I would go crazy watching Jennings and Ellis every night….

    It would burn my eyelids in no time.

    nice effort by the Knicks taking care of business, it was ugly at times, but now barring a major collapse we should be in the playoffs.

  110. Kikuchiyo

    Knickerblogger should have a Max Contract Meter where we establish, after each game, how much ‘Melo has earned of his contract.

    Add another million or so to the pot.

  111. SLY

    We’ve made the playoffs. Personally, I’d rather vs. Bulls than the heat in the first round imo

  112. rohank

    If that was so emotionally draining for us to watch, imagine what it was like to actually play?

    Btw – amazing lock-down defense at the end there…

  113. d-mar

    Kikuchiyo:
    Knickerblogger should have a Max Contract Meter where we establish, after each game, how much ‘Melo has earned of his contract.

    Add another million or so to the pot.

    Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks

  114. Gideon Zaga

    ok seriously JR Smith is just ridiculous, he is just like my best friend, he lived all his life reckless yet kept coming up on top, was always late in high school and college, drove above the speed limit yet never got ticketed, was a bad boy in his youth yet he had the most decent kids out of us all and the best retirement now. I wander about these types of individuals, the JR’s of the world, the guys who live life in the “fast lane”, so reckless but always come up big. All I can do is shake my head. What a win. Love you all and good night.

  115. Caleb

    Frank O.: Three really cause they have tie breaker, right?

    Our season series is 2-2. Knicks are 23-18 in conference and Bucks are 21-19… so tie-break could go either way.

  116. jon abbey

    Thomas B.:
    What the hell?They call a tech for him being hurt? Oh that is wrong, so very wrong. That is as wrong as editing a comment so it appears that it wasn’t posted when it actually was.

    still catching up on the thread, but are you really still whining? it’s like Bibby complaining about not getting more PT.

  117. er

    yea that was the awkward black dude, i forgot his name…but good thing i took astronomy in college sheesh

    Gorky:
    At least we close well

    Did Breen just call Anthony a “quasar”?

  118. gjknick

    Doug: It seems like we won that through sheer force of will.

    And by hitting free throws for a change. Great win. Seemed close to a replay of the Bulls at times with the rebounding. I can chalk off the Bulls getting Off boards – they’re the best in the NBA. We have to tighten that up going forward. But its a win and we’re in great shape to make it to the dance.

  119. cgreene

    Melo has really been unbelievable. He’s gone from being, in all fairness, tough to root for at times to being a real Knick warrior. Color me impressed.

  120. Will the Thrill

    Would’ve liked to see more of Fields, but JR making shots down the stretch was huge. Fields led the team in assists with 6 with limited playing time, though.

  121. JC Knickfan

    bibby -15 in 9 minute wow.
    Woodson should keep rotation 8 until Amare get back..
    Off bench Novak, Smith, JJ

  122. Bruno Almeida

    d-mar: Next tiebreaker is conference record, I think ours is 2 games better

    it is, but we don’t own that for sure yet.

    and about the absence of the so-called Carmelo haters, I’m still here…he’s just playing better, that’s all.

    when he plays terrible basketball I’ll criticize him, when he plays well, he deserves credit, it’s not a matter of loving or hating him.

    he’s still overpaid, but I won’t get into that discussion here.

  123. jon abbey

    whew, what a game, major heart to pull that one out. that is the Chandler we need on offense until Amare is back, and Melo was huge again.

    great, great, great, great win.

  124. Owen

    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

  125. BigBlueAL

    Caleb: Our season series is 2-2. Knicks are 23-18 in conference and Bucks are 21-19… so tie-break could go either way.

    Just found out next tie-breaker is record vs other playoff teams. By my count Knicks already have 9 wins vs the 1-7 seeds. No clue how many the Bucks have right now.

  126. SJK

    Great win, so nerve wracking. Coming out of this week (2 games against the Bulls, on the road against Milwaukee, Washington, and Miami) with a 3-2 would be fantastic. We cannot have a letdown game against Washington though, got to go out and dominate them.

  127. JC Knickfan

    Will the Thrill:
    Would’ve liked to see more of Fields, but JR making shots down the stretch was huge. Fields led the team in assists with 6 with limited playing time, though.

    31 minutes is plenty, Woodson did good job offense/defense with Novak/Fields.

  128. Frank O.

    er:
    yea that was the awkward black dude, i forgot his name…but good thing i took astronomy in college sheesh

    I don’t know…I kinda liked the espn crew tonight

  129. er

    lol @ overpaid….nba players are underpaid in general…except kobe hes paid out da ass

    Bruno Almeida: it is, but we don’t own that for sure yet.

    and about the absence of the so-called Carmelo haters, I’m still here…he’s just playing better, that’s all.

    when he plays terrible basketball I’ll criticize him, when he plays well, he deserves credit, it’s not a matter of loving or hating him.

    he’s still overpaid, but I won’t get into that discussion here.

  130. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL: Just found out next tie-breaker is record vs other playoff teams.By my count Knicks already have 9 wins vs the 1-7 seeds.No clue how many the Bucks have right now.

    it must be worse, they have a terrible record against over .500 teams and they never lose to bad teams (seriously, it’s been 2+ months now).

  131. er

    yea i like doris for some reason…she is knowledgeable and doesnt really have any annoying biases or traits

    Frank O.: I don’t know…I kinda liked the espn crew tonight

  132. Frank O.

    Fields had one of his better games, but he basically was forgotten late.
    Good thing smith figured it out. Coach could have taken a hit there because fields was paying well and smith at times looked terrible?
    Baron also disappeared….thankfully

  133. JC Knickfan

    Buck have Indy twice, boston and philly – Knicks really have choke not get 8th seed.

    Philly skid easily then ours they probably hold to 7th seed.

  134. JR Sec 112

    Owen:
    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

    Ha. You’re kidding, right? Guess ur giving the game ball to bibby?

  135. Bruno Almeida

    er:
    lol @ overpaid….nba players are underpaid in general…except kobe hes paid out da ass

    and why is that exactly?

    in your world, the minimum wage for your profession being 800k a year is regarded as “underpaid”?

    my goodness.

  136. Robtachi

    For some reason I’m finding it hard to get excited about this win. It was a huge game, on the road against a desperate team… but the Bucks also played most of the game without Drew Gooden who’s been a major contributor, and the Knicks looked ragged. I know this was the second in a back to back, but in both of these games and frankly in the awesome win at home against Chicago, it is painfully obvious how much this team needs good PG play.

  137. JC Knickfan

    Frank O.:
    Fields had one of his better games, but he basically was forgotten late.
    Good thing smith figured it out. Coach could have taken a hit there because fields was paying well and smith at times looked terrible?
    Baron also disappeared….thankfully

    Fields scare to shot the jumper late in game – understandable given his struggles. It’s bit hard play him crunch time.

  138. er

    im talking about the best players are worth more than they are paid….simple biz

    second what does the average salary have to do with it…. a doctor can not feel underpaid?

    Bruno Almeida: and why is that exactly?

    in your world, the minimum wage for your profession being 800k a year is regarded as “underpaid”?

    my goodness.

  139. johnlocke

    Lol. Glad to know I’m not the only one that gets too emotionally involved haha…Gideon is a true Knick fan

    Gideon Zaga:
    WOODSON IS A FUCKING IDIOT, A FOOL, A STUPID COACH, FOOL. THAT’S WHAT YOU GET WHEN U LET HIM BRING THE BALL UP. IDIOT. GIVE THE BALL TO HIM IN THE FUCKING POST.

  140. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: it must be worse, they have a terrible record against over .500 teams and they never lose to bad teams (seriously, it’s been 2+ months now).

    Yup. John Schuhmann of NBA.com just tweeted back to me the Bucks are currently 4-15 vs the top 7 seeds, Knicks 9-11.

  141. Frank O.

    Really good to have Novak back. He hits some huge shots for us.

    You know, Shump has just played his ass off.
    I keep remembering his reaction when the Knicks picked him. Good kid.

  142. Gideon Zaga

    Although i really don’t side with the Melo; but I understand them. Melo is on our home team so I understand they want to see him do better, its just like any of us criticizing our kids and not other people kids, its because we want to see them do better. Lebron has had an awful stretch but I don’t hear anyone criticizing him. I believe Melo is elite, top 5 and worth every penny and more even though his salary is what the market dictates. I think Melo and his personality can’t win on any side of the argument, if his team lost tonight we might hear that he shoots too much but when none of his team mates have it going and he decides to take more shots to put his stamp on the ball, we call his style of play non-winning basketball. I like his story and his personality. Others don’t see it or see it differently and I understand, NY is a what have you done for me town. Same reason Tebow is here

  143. BigBlueAL

    Robtachi:
    For some reason I’m finding it hard to get excited about this win. It was a huge game, on the road against a desperate team… but the Bucks also played most of the game without Drew Gooden who’s been a major contributor, and the Knicks looked ragged.I know this was the second in a back to back, but in both of these games and frankly in the awesome win at home against Chicago, it is painfully obvious how much this team needs good PG play.

    Hey Im just happy they are securing their playoff spot. Everything you have pointed out is absolutely correct which is why I dont think they have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning more than 2 games vs the Bulls or Heat in the playoffs but for me with the current roster due to the injuries Im proud of them for making the playoffs.

  144. Gideon Zaga

    yeah if my business as a whole generates billions of dollars, and I am basically the product, then yes an 800k minimum wage is underpaid.

    Bruno Almeida: and why is that exactly?

    in your world, the minimum wage for your profession being 800k a year is regarded as “underpaid”?

    my goodness.

  145. PC

    Having no PG sux, but really we just have one rebounder and that will kill us in the playoffs. We don’t even have another option on the team. At least with the PG issue, we can rotate some bodies in to try. Rebounding is chandler and that’s it. We need big bodies next year.

  146. er

    lol true true

    PC:
    The most underrated person tonight is Doris Burke. She is excellent at her job.Melo’s OK too.

  147. art vandelay

    Robtachi:
    For some reason I’m finding it hard to get excited about this win. It was a huge game, on the road against a desperate team… but the Bucks also played most of the game without Drew Gooden who’s been a major contributor, and the Knicks looked ragged.I know this was the second in a back to back, but in both of these games and frankly in the awesome win at home against Chicago, it is painfully obvious how much this team needs good PG play.

    So I guess the Bucks wouldn’t have been excited to beat us tonight since we are missing Amar’e and Lin.

  148. daJudge

    What set of facts would change your opinion?

    Owen:
    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

  149. New Guy

    That’s right, point at the Melo haters. Cuz we always dreamed of the day we’d stave off the Bucks for the 8 seed, and he delivered. SMH.

  150. Frank O.

    jon abbey: you could tell he was tired for most of it, but he kicked it up a bit at the end.

    Had a clutch 3 pt play late, and his d was tough down the stretch. I seem to recall him running over a picked late in one of the bulls games. He’s got stones

  151. er

    thats kinda iffy…dont hide say what you feel…he sux etc

    hahahahaha

    Owen:
    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

  152. Gideon Zaga

    Thank you John, I recommend some blood pressure pills and some friends to restrain you when watching the games haha.

    johnlocke:
    Lol. Glad to know I’m not the only one that gets too emotionally involved haha…Gideon is a true Knick fan

  153. JR Sec 112

    BigBlueAL: Hey Im just happy they are securing their playoff spot.Everything you have pointed out is absolutely correct which is why I dont think they have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning more than 2 games vs the Bulls or Heat in the playoffs but for me with the current roster due to the injuries Im proud of them for making the playoffs.

    Well said. At the beginning of the year this team was tough to root for. Now i find them pretty easy to love. They aren’t going to get through the first round (unless Lin comes back), but it hasn’t been this fun to root for the Knicks in 10 years. And if you melo haters still hate Melo after the last 10 games and can’t root for him or this team, then I feel bad for you

  154. er

    so you would rather miss the playoffs? its been a bad season and the team is trying to salvage it jeez

    New Guy:
    That’s right, point at the Melo haters.Cuz we always dreamed of the day we’d stave off the Bucks for the 8 seed, and he delivered.SMH.

  155. Frank

    Owen:
    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

    Just wondering- what would actually make you change your mind? I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, just wondering what would make you say — wow, maybe this dude is better than I thought he was? Is it basically impossible? Because the Carmelo of the last 2-3 weeks has been a bona fide max player.

  156. massive

    The way Melo has been playing recently, he had to have been playing injured earlier. Either that, or he has a knack for elevating his play when there’s less talent around him.

  157. Z-man

    Huge win, especially coupled with the Chicago win. Still, no time to be thinking playoffs yet, lots of tough games left and the tiebreaker is not clinched yet. One game at a time.

  158. Frank O.

    Frank: Just wondering- what would actually make you change your mind? I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, just wondering what would make you say — wow, maybe this dude is better than I thought he was?Is it basically impossible? Because the Carmelo of the last 2-3 weeks has been a bona fide max player.

    And at both ends, great effort.
    I didn’t love him dogging it under mike d., but he’s been a beast, playing hurt, wrists, groin, etc.

  159. gjknick

    So do we pull the plug on Baron Davis starting and go with Novak or Smith starting. Maybe Baron wouldn’t look so bad off the bench against the 2nd stringers for his 20 minutes. If we’re going with Shump and Smith to end the game, might as well use em to start the game.

  160. Z-man

    Frank: Just wondering- what would actually make you change your mind? I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, just wondering what would make you say — wow, maybe this dude is better than I thought he was? Is it basically impossible? Because the Carmelo of the last 2-3 weeks has been a bona fide max player.

    I bet if you polled the players and coaches that played against him during that stretch, they’d say he’s a max player.

  161. Gideon Zaga

    I am going to defend the Melo haters, these guys don’t hate Melo, you can’t hate Melo and love the Knicks. The same way you can’t hate JR, we all here love JR but most of us only admit it when they play good. At the end of the day, we go to the games to watch them, we buy their jerseys and we argue for them against rival teams. I know Melo isn’t better than Lebron but I will forever argue that he is to Lebron fans as long as he remains a Knick and frankly he has been better than Lebron this past few weeks(just had to throw it in there). But its good that we have ruruland vs owen. I tune in everyday because of that, it makes the blog live. It will be boring if we all agreed.

  162. Will the Thrill

    We have still yet to see Melo play this well with Lin and Amare back in the lineup. Woodson will have to figure out the best way to keep his play at this level and incorporate Amare + Lin in the offense. Hopefully he does a better job than D’antoni. But he definitely has more confidence in Melo than D’antoni did so I think we will see either Amare or Lin struggle, as Melo keep his play up. If all three players fit together and play as well as they can, we are going to be an absolute force on offense and defense.

  163. gjknick

    I would say on the on-going (forever-going!) Melo debate, a couple of weeks is probobly not going to change minds. In fact, one can see it as more damning of Melo as he clearly has the talent to do amazing things but maybe not the motor to do them all year long. Or maybe he’s been hurt or maybe …. On it goes.

  164. New Guy

    er:
    so you would rather miss the playoffs?its been a bad season and the team is trying to salvage it jeez

    How did you conclude that from my comment? Let’s salvage it, yeah. But christ let’s not start acting like making the 8 seed on the back of a superb month from Melo means more than it should.

  165. Owen

    “Just wondering- what would actually make you change your mind? ”

    Consistently elite levels of statistical productivity?

    Evidence he can do more than score and board some?

    Consistently hitting the three?

    Perhaps a week without a quote referencing the fact he can play really good defense when he puts his mind to it….

    At the end of the day, I am sure his recent hot stretch will be enough to expiate his previous sins for most. But to me the fact that we are still struggling to make the playoffs, in a season in which we had our best stretch with him injured, it’s a pretty damning indictment of his year.

    And honestly, I am just a process person. The thinking process that led to Carmelo being acquired, and that led to a lot of our personnel decisions over the last ten years. It’s just hard to get behind.

  166. JR Sec 112

    New Guy: How did you conclude that from my comment?Let’s salvage it, yeah.But christ let’s not start acting like making the 8 seed on the back of a superb month from Melo means more than it should.

    That’s not a fair conclusion either. Last 5 games at ind, at orl, home chicago, at chi, at mil. 3-2. Given the circumstances, that’s pretty great. Throw out the shitty start and we are 22-13. That’s pretty damn good. Don’t start acting like it means less than it does.

  167. er

    umm we are in the middle of our hottest stretch of the season, not linsanity which i no you are referring to

    hes been rebounding and playing d and passing

    just root against him but dont say you are trying to be reasonable cuz you are not

    Owen:
    “Just wondering- what would actually make you change your mind? ”

    Consistently elite levels of statistical productivity?

    Evidence he can do more that score?

    Perhaps a week with out a quote referencing the fact he can play really good defense when he puts his mind to it….

    At the end of the day, I am sure his recent hot stretch will be enough to expiate his previous sins for most. But to me the fact that we are still struggling to make the playoffs, in a season in which we had our best stretch with him injured, it’s a pretty damning indictment of his year.

    And honestly, I am just a process person. The thinking process that led to Carmelo being acquired, and that led to a lot of our personnel decisions over the last ten years. It’s just hard to get behind.

  168. er

    he was hurt..ie a big ass cast thing on his wrist and bad ankle and bad groin and hypertension knee at beginning of season

    gjknick:
    I would say on the on-going (forever-going!) Melo debate, a couple of weeks is probobly not going to change minds. In fact, one can see it as more damning of Melo as he clearly has the talent to do amazing things but maybe not the motor to do them all year long. Or maybe he’s been hurt or maybe …. On it goes.

  169. JR Sec 112

    er:
    umm we are in the middle of our hottest stretch of the season, not linsanity which i no you are referring to

    hes been rebounding and playing d and passing

    just root against him but dont say you are trying to be reasonable cuz you are not

    Yeah, take a look back at the quality of teams during linsanity vs the past 9 games and pretty clear this is best team has played all year.

  170. CapB

    Excited to come here and discuss the win and as usual I am more excited to not come here. Some of you are so damn depressing all the time.

  171. er

    amen

    CapB:
    Excited to come here and discuss the win and as usual I am more excited to not come here.Some of you are so damn depressing all the time.

  172. New Guy

    JR Sec 112: That’s not a fair conclusion either.Last 5 games at ind, at orl, home chicago, at chi, at mil.3-2.Given the circumstances, that’s pretty great.Throw out the shitty start and we are 22-13.That’s pretty damn good.Don’t start acting like it means less than it does.

    Er, but he contributed mightily to our shitty start, so why should I throw that out?

    Look I love what he’s done. I’m a Knicks fan since 1984 and I love this team and am thrilled when he does well. But it’s a bit premature for “RuRu was right” and “I told you so, Melo-Haters.” This is 3 weeks of elite play that merely dug us out of a hole he contributed largely to digging. In the words of The Wolf, “Let’s not start…..each other’s……just yet.”

  173. er

    you never heard me say throw anything out….the point is people wanna say the guy sucks then fine…just done say you are being reasonable….haters gonna hate

    he has had a bad season but hes a top tier player and people want to deny that…thats their problem, i havent said i told you so to anyone either….it just is what it is the numbers and wins speak for them self

    MDA was just as big a reason for the shitty start imo and he was bailed out by lin

    New Guy: Er, but he contributed mightily to our shitty start, so why should I throw that out?

    Look I love what he’s done.I’m a Knicks fan since 1984 and I love this team and am thrilled when he does well.But it’s a bit premature for “RuRu was right” and “I told you so, Melo-Haters.”This is 3 weeks of elite play that merely dug us out of a hole he contributed largely to digging.In the words of The Wolf, “Let’s not start…..each other’s……just yet.”

  174. JR Sec 112

    New Guy: Er, but he contributed mightily to our shitty start, so why should I throw that out?

    Look I love what he’s done.I’m a Knicks fan since 1984 and I love this team and am thrilled when he does well.But it’s a bit premature for “RuRu was right” and “I told you so, Melo-Haters.”This is 3 weeks of elite play that merely dug us out of a hole he contributed largely to digging.In the words of The Wolf, “Let’s not start…..each other’s……just yet.”

    ‘I love what he’s done’ …..you sound so sincere….

    I guess you don’t remember the first 23 games very well. We were even worse at pg than we are now. Douglas was getting serious minutes. Melo was hurt. But yeah, must have been his fault.

  175. BigBlueAL

    Lets face it, next season is going to be the real indication of how good this team really is not this season.

    Lets just enjoy the rest of this season and have fun being able to watch meaningful, playoff-type games.

  176. JR Sec 112

    BigBlueAL:
    Lets face it, next season is going to be the real indication of how good this team really is not this season.

    Lets just enjoy the rest of this season and have fun being able to watch meaningful, playoff-type games.

    +1

  177. er

    yes lets just enjoy the grit the team is playing with i totally agree

    BigBlueAL:
    Lets face it, next season is going to be the real indication of how good this team really is not this season.

    Lets just enjoy the rest of this season and have fun being able to watch meaningful, playoff-type games.

  178. Brian Cronin

    What I find ridiculous is that this is not a matter of people coming in here to give Melo shit. This is people going out of there way to give other people shit and then when they respond, it’s like, “Why can’t we just celebrate the win?” If you want to celebrate the win, then do that, don’t be all, “Take that!” to other posters.

  179. art vandelay

    Brian Cronin:
    What I find ridiculous is that this is not a matter of people coming in here to give Melo shit. This is people going out of there way to give other people shit and then when they respond, it’s like, “Why can’t we just celebrate the win?” If you want to celebrate the win, then do that, don’t be all, “Take that haters!”

    I don’t even think a championship at this point could end the neverending melo trade referendum/debate on this board!

  180. jon abbey

    meanwhile Andrew Bynum almost outrebounded San Antonio by himself tonight, he had 30 and they had 33 (!!!!).

  181. New Guy

    JR Sec 112: ‘I love what he’s done’ …..you sound so sincere….

    I guess you don’t remember the first 23 games very well.We were even worse at pg than we are now.Douglas was getting serious minutes.Melo was hurt.But yeah, must have been his fault.

    Believe me, if you’d seen me ruin Easter for my family screaming after his heroics you’d know how sincere I was.

  182. MKinLA

    I’ve loved this blog for years. But right now, there seem to be a lot of new commenters who are barely capable of writing in English and who don’t add much to the discussion. I’m finding myself skipping 50% of the comments, which I never used to do.

    I’m feeling nostalgic for the David Lee days. We sucked, but the quality of debate was sky-high.

  183. Robtachi

    Really? Because I think any reasonable person would endure no end to inane, poorly written drivel if it meant the Knicks were in serious contention.

    I know I would.

    MKinLA:
    I’ve loved this blog for years. But right now, there seem to be a lot of new commenters who are barely capable of writing in English and who don’t add much to the discussion. I’m finding myself skipping 50% of the comments, which I never used to do.

    I’m feeling nostalgic for the David Lee days. We sucked, but the quality of debate was sky-high.

  184. gjknick

    Anyone see Anthony Randolph’s line for Minny tonight? 28 points on 16 shots, 5 blocks, only two turnovers, 4 off rebounds. Where has that been for 2 plus years!

  185. Robtachi

    Also spaghetti Spike Fields Shump Shump for three poynters bliggitt blah blah improper puncuation run-on glimble glork.

    Knicks won and are in a playoff spot.

    Potato.

    MKinLA:
    I’ve loved this blog for years. But right now, there seem to be a lot of new commenters who are barely capable of writing in English and who don’t add much to the discussion. I’m finding myself skipping 50% of the comments, which I never used to do.

    I’m feeling nostalgic for the David Lee days. We sucked, but the quality of debate was sky-high.

  186. jon abbey

    MKinLA:
    I’ve loved this blog for years. But right now, there seem to be a lot of new commenters who are barely capable of writing in English and who don’t add much to the discussion. I’m finding myself skipping 50% of the comments, which I never used to do.

    I’m feeling nostalgic for the David Lee days. We sucked, but the quality of debate was sky-high.

    nothing worse than people who never post except to comment on the quality of other people’s posts. if you don’t like it, help make it better yourself.

    also, the better a team is, the dumber their fan base is, and vice versa. I’m sure somewhere there is a Wizards board consisting of nothing but Rhodes Scholars and prize-winning novelists.

  187. jon abbey

    Robtachi:
    Also spaghetti Spike Fields Shump Shump for three poynters bliggitt blah blah improper puncuation run-on glimble glork.

    Knicks won and are in a playoff spot.

    Potato.

    haha, best post of the thread.

  188. Robtachi

    gjknick:
    Anyone see Anthony Randolph’s line for Minny tonight? 28 points on 16 shots, 5 blocks, only two turnovers, 4 off rebounds. Where has that been for 2 plus years!

    I was actually just marveling at that, yes. Hate to say it, but Kevin Love missing minutes is by far the best (maybe only?) hope for guys like Randolph and Derrick Williams.

  189. Robtachi

    jon abbey: haha, best post of the thread.

    From a “new commenter” no less! Call the internet police!

    Seriously, shall we stow the elitism and entitlement as it relates to fandom? Easily my biggest pet peeves when it comes to sports. Leave that kind of childish sniping to fan bases that subscribe to lower social standards. Y’know, like Red Sox Nation.

  190. Z-man

    Brian, I mostly agree, but it is pretty frustrating that certain people here seem to be more interested in being right than being Knick fans. My take is that for better or for worse, we don’t own the team and never will, so whether Melo ultimately meets some arbitrary statistical benchmark for a max player or not, I don’t see the point of the mindset that says “I’m angry because if I owned the team I would have done things differently, and therefore I am going to stick to my guns about being right until proven wrong, but I’m still a loyal fan and ultimately want the Knicks to win but they will never win as long as Dolan owns the team because he keeps paying max money to non-max players, etc..”. My feeling is that once trades go down, I hope that the players in Knicks uniforms play their hearts out and live up to the hype. These Knicks may never win a title, but these last three weeks have been a blast and Melo, with all his iso-ball, has been sensational on both ends of the court. At the end of the day, basketball is a form of entertainment that is best when the fan has a rooting interest. Stats are fun and all, but watching the games is where it’s at. Melo has been as fun to watch and to root for as any player in the league during the Woodson era.

  191. Doug

    Robtachi: What I find ridiculous is that this is not a matter of people coming in here to give Melo shit. This is people going out of there way to give other people shit and then when they respond, it’s like, “Why can’t we just celebrate the win?” If you want to celebrate the win, then do that, don’t be all, “Take that!” to other posters.

    Purple monkey dishwasher.

  192. gjknick

    But Z-man, can’t you allow there are other ways to enjoy and root for a team? Seeing them follow a quality process that puts them in the best possible position to succeed. Like the Tampa Bay Rays – I’m a Yankee fan, but I appreciate how they do business – really an amazing run. Then you have the Knicks, who seemed to be in competent hands (Mr. Walsh) for the first time this century until the owner seems to have taken over the trade talks and possibly pays more for an asset then they needed to. One can still hope they reach a championship level, while one’s rational brain doubts that the team will get there because the ower is an idiot.
    Not saying your way of watching is wrong, just allow for other ways.

  193. rururuland7

    Owen:
    “Love that idea, Melo haters strangely absent from this board for the last 2 weeks”

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    We “melo haters” just don’t want to rain on the parade while things are going right for a change. But it’s fair to say my thoughts on the matters remain unchanged….

    lmao. Come on out let’s play.

  194. Brian Cronin

    Brian, I mostly agree, but it is pretty frustrating that certain people here seem to be more interested in being right than being Knick fans.

    I know it seems that way sometimes, but as you know since you’ve been here quite awhile, the people you’re talking about have also been here for quite awhile. It’s not like they just popped on to the board this year to talk trash about Melo. They’ve been here for years, following the Knicks as they lost an ungodly amount of games. They want the Knicks to win. They cheer when the Knicks win. They’re Knick fans.

    To wit, everyone here cheered when Crawford hit his occasional big shot. We all still hated Crawford as a Knick, though, ya know?

    That said, if someone came into a game thread after a big Knicks loss where Melo had a bad game and said, “Hey, where are all the Melo-lovers tonight?” I’d think that would be messed up, as well. I’ve told THCJ, for instance, on more than one occasion that I don’t like when he comes in with the laughing after a Knick loss and I’ve even deleted posts of his when I think he’s gone over the line.

    “Take that, people I disagree with!” after games is just weak period. Just enjoy the win or sulk about the loss. Don’t turn the comments into a pissy back and forth with people you disagree with.

  195. Z-man

    But the other ways are pure fantasy in that DOLAN REALLY DOES OWN THE TEAM and that will not change for probably the rest of his life. Melo is signed for the next few years and THAT”S not gonna change either. Doubting is fine, but when the team is playing well and the acquired “superstars” are playing like superstars, put the grudges aside for a while and enjoy!

  196. rururuland7

    Z-man:
    But the other ways are pure fantasy in that DOLAN REALLY DOES OWN THE TEAM and that will not change for probably the rest of his life.Melo is signed for the next few years and THAT”S not gonna change either. Doubting is fine, but when the team is playing well and the acquired “superstars” are playing like superstars, put the grudges aside for a while and enjoy!

    I’m trying my hardest to respect Owen, respect the fact that he’s been a “fan” for years, respect his knowledge, respect the decorum of the board. It’s really hard.

  197. Doug

    This “I am a process person, therefore I will never accept Melo” argument is ridiculous.

    If you’re a Yankees fan, do you shit on everything A-Rod does just because he’s signed to one of the worst contracts in baseball?

    Of course we all want good process leading to good results, but when bad process leads to good results, chalk it up to good fortune and move on. There’s no point in lamenting that the good result came from bad process, unless the bad process continues to be used.

  198. Doug

    Brian Cronin: I’ve even deleted posts of his when I think he’s gone over the line.

    He must be even worse than I thought. I thought you guys gave him free reign because he was a longtime commenter.

  199. rururuland7

    Doug:
    This “I am a process person, therefore I will never accept Melo” argument is ridiculous.

    If you’re a Yankees fan, do you shit on everything A-Rod does just because he’s signed to one of the worst contracts in baseball?

    Of course we all want good process leading to good results, but when bad process leads to good results, chalk it up to good fortune and move on. There’s no point in lamenting that the good result came from bad process, unless the bad process continues to be used.

    yep. Thanks. I’d like to attack it on a few different levels but I’ll wait for him to join us.

  200. Z-man

    Again, Brian, I pretty much agree. However, there was a lot of stuff said by “regulars” about Melo being a “one-trick pony,” a poor defender, etc. I think it is pretty clear that he has been a far more multi-dimensional player than that during this stretch. I guess my biggest beef is with the concept that “he is what he is” and that at age 27 he can’t/won’t improve. Owen is pretty level-headed about it, but to describe Melo as a guy that’s “hard to get behind” regardless of the process that brougt him here is disappointing.

    Ant I, for one, didn’t hate Crawford as a Knick, just his contract; same with Zach and Eddy and Steph and Allan. I don’t put Melo in their class though. I would venture to say that you could put Melo on the trading block at the end of the season and get a pretty good return for him. Not so for any of the other guys.

  201. Brian Cronin

    I don’t mean to sound like i’m defending any particular position, as really, it is perfectly reasonable to criticize their positions. I am just talking about a general:

    A. THCJ and Owen both like the Knicks a lot. They are happy when the Knicks win.
    B. If they’re not in the thread saying anything, it is weak to bring them up in a “take that” sort of way (and especially weak to bring them up and then complain when they respond)
    C. “Take that, person I disagree with!” is weak period. Just enjoy the great win.

  202. rururuland7

    Brian Cronin:
    I don’t mean to sound like i’m defending any particular position, as really, it is perfectly reasonable to criticize their positions. I am just talking about a general:

    A. THCJ and Owen both like the Knicks a lot. They are happy when the Knicks win.
    B. If they’re not in the thread saying anything, it is weak to bring them up in a “take that” sort of way (and especially weak to bring them up and then complain when they respond)
    C. “Take that, person I disagree with!” is weak period. Just enjoy the great win.

    A) You’re in their heads? Owen just said he’s a “process guy.” Not a ” I like it when the Knicks win guy.” His statements are utterly incompatible with fandom, consistently anti-Knicks, at least anti-current iteration of the Knicks.

    It’s one thing to feign rational objectivism, which would be an incredibly generous description of Owen, given his narrow, surface-level analysis. but that’s not a fan.

    c) Most of us are trying to enjoy the win. Some of the “fans” you stick your neck out for make it difficult.

  203. Z

    Owen:

    He isn’t getting my game ball tonight….

    No way. Game ball goes to Brian, for moving jon’s “Fire Dolan! SHUMP SHUMP” post to the top. (unsung Knick legend in the making!)

  204. jon abbey

    Doug: He must be even worse than I thought. I thought you guys gave him free reign because he was a longtime commenter.

    he’s not that longtime, Owen is longtime and deserves much more respect than THCJ. Mike K is also very anti-Melo, but has been very quiet about it this year.

Comments are closed.