2012-2013 Game Thread: Knicks @ Suns
December 26th, 2012 by Thomas B. | Comments | Permalink |
Your in-game thoughts about Felton’s Efg%, Smith’s shot selection, why the referees hate Anthony, what happened to Novak’s stroke, whether we can trade for Lin, why don’t they play defense for the entire game, and much much more.
Go New York.
@Don't bother; I don't tweet
JRJR! ??
Interesting situation!
Well the good news is that Felton won’t go 3-19 tonight.
it’s kind of ridiculous to make the teams that play the big showcase Christmas games play again the next day, especially against teams who had the day before off (DEN/LAL is OK). Melo and D-Will sitting tonight.
True…interested in what the Kidd prigioni backcourt will give us.
JR better have iced his elbows before this one.
Jennings abusing the DWillless nets
Yeah, I really don’t get NBA scheduling period.
What’s the knickerblogger odds on winning this thing? Can Chandler be beastly wout Felton? Can JR be a short term number one option like mayo? Can Kidd still be a great starting PG as opposed to an awesome 2, can Novak get some shots up…and make them? We may not win but we should get some good answers to the above tonight!
I think the Knicks should still be favored. I give them a 60-65% chance of winning.
Hakeem Chandler!
Welp, this may be the biggest game ever vis-a-vis the ongoing “can Chandler increase his usage without falling off an efficiency cliff?” debate.
Why is white out there ?
Novak does not equal defense
Eat your heart out Patrick Ewing
Tyson’s got 8 points and Ray-Ray hasn’t missed a shot yet.
Knicks 1st quarter defense continues to be hot garbage.
Not watching MSG feed but looks like it was reported that Felton will jave an x-ray to see if any ligaments torn in his pinky.
Never thought the day would come when I’d be pulling for Tyson to take more jumpers and JR to chuck like it’s going out of style.
This would have been a good game for JR to make some shots.
The offense has been alright. The defense has stunk.
as long as that’s not a description of your dinner as well it’ll have to do.
Cambys jumpshot so fugly
Ive been frustrated with Felton’s play recently like everyone here but I really hope he isnt out an extended period of time.
Had some leftover pasta with shrimp. Not bad lol.
Prigioni with the nice drive and dish to Camby.
Camby coming back and looking prodcutive is a very nice development for the Knicks. They’ve missed Sheed when he’s out
Camby flying in for dunks and blocking shots. Its 1999 all over again.
Also Copeland in the future.
Its like the where were these guys game? Jermaine O’Neal, the low post shot maker Chandler, Telfair getting to the rim …
Sweet pass by JR Smith to find Copeland open in the corner.
Copeland!!
Why wasn’t Copeland starting?
Copeland is a machine!
The Suns’ perimeter D could use some work.
Now thats some good defense. Excellent rotating off the double team of Scola in the post.
OK, Im generally one of the posters on this sight that is least resistant to change (hence, I continue to support Felton, I have never wavered o chandler, etc), but I must say. Woody really needs to find some time for Cope, whether it comes out of kidd’s, novak’s, smith’s, or BREWER’S minutes
*more resistant to change
What a look from Kidd to JR on the backdoor. Copeland continues to drain and, unfortunately, get called for fouls.
So why didn’t Copeland play yesterday again? Lol
How the hell is that a flagrant????
That’s got to be the weakest flagrant foul call in NBA history.
WTF?????? flagrant. seriously, ca the NBA address how ridiculous the falgrant call has become. it was an awful fall, but smith was trying to avoid him, much less flagrantly foul him
BALL DON’T LIE
hard to call that a flagrant.
That has to be the softest flagrant foul in the history of the NBA.
BALL TELLS TRUTH!!!
Was that really intentional by JR? if so, he’s one sneaky bastard because he just ran by and ass grazed him.
Flagrant foul? “Ball don’t lie” Dragic! Lol
Sometimes ball really don’t like. That wasn’t even a foul, much less a flagrant.
If Riley’s Knicks played in today’s NBA can you imagine the amount of flagrants, techs and suspensions they would get?? lol
ugh, *lie
Jeremy Lin doing his best tonight to keep the debate going, 3-9, 1 assist, 7 turnovers. Yikes.
My god harden just beasted the shit out of the Timberwolves. They can’t stop the pick and roll late in games at all. He just kept running it and getting to the rim like it was nothing. I’m sure that has something to do with the fact that Minnesota sucks at defense, but it was quite awesome to watch.
Lin back to struggling again tonight (3-9, 7 turnovers). Harden playing great last couple weeks.
Also, would love to hear the explanation for Love’s scoring struggles this year. He’s clearly playing injured still. Let’s see how consistent Berri folks are (sort of rhetorical because we know they aren’t). Love’s issues must surely be random.
Cope’s going to eat Novak’s minutes if he’s close to being a 40% 3pt shooter. I remember watching cope live in Boulder and he was nowhere near this good. Grunwald is good. Really good. Though I have to believe Cope was a Warkentein guy.
Harden won it in the end for the Rockets though. The Wolves offense continues to be awful even with Love and Rubio back.
No one seems to be able to stop it.
Really surprised Owen hasn’t dropped by to talk about Harden. Maybe the Love talk will scare him off for a night.
At this point Harden is pretty clearly the 2nd best SG in the NBA, no?
Probably, pretty bad defender, but much of that is the workload. Kobe isn’t a great defender but he’s better than Harden.
Wade is No.1?
The pick and roll works pretty well when you have a shooter like Harden operating out of it. We wouldn’t know anything about that lol.
Also, those two jumpers by Chandler looked really good. It’s really disheartening that he would only choose to shoot them with Melo and Felton out. At low 40s that’s a really good shot most of the time.
Knicks bringing it on D now. Plus the Suns suck lol.
I would take this season’s James Harden over every other 2 in the league not named Kobe Bryant (and I hate Kobe).
I’d go Kobe, Harden, Wade, this season at least. But I’ll actually amend my original statement to say he’s pretty clearly a top 3 SG–Wade has seemed like he’s falling off this season but his defense keeps him up there even though his scoring volume is not up there with Kobe/Harden. Harden’s the worst defender of the 3 but Kobe and Wade have a liiiittle more help, so…
That was a pretty play.
James White is really intriguing. Great off-ball movement. Has some lateral quickness, obviously great in transition.
I’d co-sign this.
Nice close-out Cope.
For all of those people who insist that J Kidd (and to a lesser degree Chandler) get fewer minutes, have we considered the possibility that Jason Kidd is just one of those people whose body does not ever break down? I mean he’s 39 and still playing highly effective ball, while the supremely fit Dwayne Wade/Amare Stoudemire/whomever can’t stay healthy no matter what they do. I know there’s no way to really explain “injury proneness”, but goddamn, J. Kidd has to be one of those people prone to health.
Why won’t TC make those drives with Melo or Felton?
ridiculous.
JR..some of the best step back moves ever!
lol, Chandler’s spin move.
Amazing how Beasley has managed to get worse with every single passing year.
got him to the line. Choosing not to work with Hakeem was also really disappointing.
You don’t need to be completely refined when you’re as big and athletic as he is. Gortat is a perfect example.
this is one of Chandler’s 5 best games. Same with Kidd.
Terrible defense…Novak sux
wow tie game :\
Keep Prigs in the game. He is the guy who’ll make up for bad plays at the end of a game.
Disagree…his defense, ESP help has been mediocre
Cope = clutch lol
Kidd leaves it falls apart….Kidd showing über pg skills and intelligence
7 d rebounds in 29 minutes is very good for Chandler. Gortat with only 1 offensive rebound. He’s been getting killed on the defensive glass all year.
Every offensive player seems to seek out Novak for abuse
This has been by far the worst defensive half of the season. Absolutely unacceptable.
It’s been ok. No way the worst. Very good in first half. Suns making jump shots. That happens to everybody. They are a good offensive team, especially at home.
Is everyone officially annoyed yet? I am!
this is what Camby can do… won’t be able to do this every night, but when he’s fresh this is what he does.
Get Novak out of there
JR missed Nova wide open
Of course they are making jump shots. They are wide freaking open. Telfair actually missed a 3pter where he couldve held onto the ball for 5 secs before shooting it he was so wide open.
That’s how you always play Telfair. He’s a terrible jump shooter and solid playmaker. Play him to shoot.
Some of these are contested. A few of Dudley’s highly contested.
No point having Novak out there if you are not going to try to get him the ball (he’s the 3rd best scorer out there — better running him off screens than having cope or Camby tossing up runners).
Although I kind of think that they are having Novak guard Beasley to get Beasley to shoot more…
Kidd is amazing.
Holy Christ J KIdd
kidd is leterally playing like my uncle out there. and normally that is not a good thing
No point when his defense is so porous
Novak has joined brewer and Felton on my shit list…one can’t shoot one shoots too much and one tries to play defense…
Jason Kidd is the real Uncle Drew
He’s getting exposed with all these minutes. The fewer minutes, the more guys to worry about on offense, the higher shot-minute production he can give you.
He’s a very good 14-16 minute player with everyone going. Anything over 20 minutes without usage guys is going to be big trouble.
Dudley with 31 pts. SMH
Jlocke — that’s what I’m saying. If you’re going to have a one-dimensional shooter, you should either try to get him the ball or play someone else (White, Brewer, someone)…
If we pull this one out, it will be one of the best wins of the season. Another reason why getting Amare back will be good — will allow us to have an offense when Melo is out.
i know we are missing guys, ut i am not prepared to accept a loss to the suns
Same
Knicks cant stop Dudley. I dont give a shit if Melo/Chandler/Kidd/Felton/Amar’e/JR and anyone else is missing, thats unacceptable to possibly lose because you cant cover Jared freaking Dudley.
i kno that they do not have injuries (they just suck) but the suns are playing Jermaine f’n Oneal. we should win this game with the team we have out there
Finally!
JR!!!!
its chandler back tap time!!!!
Look at that when they can’t pick on our shitty defender things get tougher
TY KIDDD
Kidd is unreal. Never in a million years did I expect him to be this good this season. I was happy they signed him and thought he would definitely help but not anywhere near to this extent.
KIDD: 23/6/5
I think the worst was Boris Diaw abusing amare last year
MVP
Damn, just looked at box score and JR is 9 for 24. Knew he was shooting bad but didnt think it was that bad.
Triple double for kidd ?
Of the league or Knicks or both?
He’s dived on so many end-of-clock grenades tonight that I think you have to throw out his FG%
Unreal how the Knicks continue to allow WIDE OPEN 3pters. Thats the only thing that can beat them now but they continue to allow them.
Playing hard not smart right now
Dumb…Kidd didnt recover on telfair…the three was the one thing you didn’t want to give up
OK. who is our go to guy? any ideas? Im afraid its JR, but I would not mind seeing Cope get the shot at all
They allowed an open Dudley 3pter right before that which was even worse defense. I know Telfair has a rep as a bad shooter but he is shooting 36% from 3pt ranger this season.
Knicks …tonight. And for many games this season. Melo overall Knicks MVP in my mind
Basketball is often a game of opportunity cost/benefit. You can’t shut everything down.
You were right. Can we get a side pnr with chandler and Kidd or smith pls?? Geez
No doubt.
Yeah so many end of shot clock situations and at least one buzzer beater attempt. I’d like him to shoot fewer long twos off the dribble not at the end of the shot clock, but I think he’s played a pretty good game overall.
No decoys. No threat of dribble penetration. Harder to draw something.
You obviously didnt watch basketball in the 90′s. I know the rules now make it much more difficult to play great D like some of the teams did back then but Im sorry some of the defensive possessions tonight have been inexcusable.
i dont think it was designed for smith per se. hes just the only guy who can do anything with the shot clock winding down
Threat of penetration if it’s JR
You watched the Knicks in the 90s man. haha. That’s one of the best defensive teams of all-time. These ain’t those guys.
How was that not a t on Tucker? Somebody needs to lay that punk out if this goes OT.
that was sick by JR. he is the only guy on the court who can do that right now (maybe cope too).
Lol. Great play!!
Junior Smiff, oh lord
Not much
Kidd again. Unreal.
Tucker is trying to stick in this league and trying to be a gritty guy. hes the type you love if you root for the suns but hate if your playing them
JKidd for the win…I’m calling it…1.5 seconds
Kidd is going to get this…..
Nevermind
JR did it again!!!
JR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING????????
JRRRRRR! HAAAAA!
HAHAHA
JJJJJJRRRRR!!!!!
Never a doubt
JR Smith!! Game blouses
Feast Jr!!!!!!! 1st Bobcats now the Suns.
How do you place a statistical value on those two incredible shots JR just made?
JR woot
Unreal.
JR has all the clutch
You don’t do what he just did to Kidd without a few people remembering it. The defense was great.
Maybe a sort of win percentage added stat (like they have for baseball) that adjusts for time left in the shot clock?
And he fell before he caught it! Still needs to tighten up his salsa though
I honestly don’t think JR hits those shots if Tucker hadn’t tried his little punk trash talk ass-slap.
Adrenaline.
Thank you JR – I now can shower and go to bed.
holy crap. i just finished jumping around my house
Yes! this should be coming soon…. Spatial and time weighted metrics.
My thing is its team defensive breakdowns that are causing all these open shots. I have no problems with great players getting their points because they are unguardable. Hell MJ used to torch those Knicks at times and you just accept it. Reggie Miller is going to score 25 pts in a quarter by hitting contested 3pters from 28 ft you live with that.
Its just a bad pattern this team has fallen into. I believe I read that since their 6-0 start when they were #1 in defensive efficiency they have been #24 which is awful. Overall right now they are barely a top 20 defense. That is something they have to correct. They dont need to be a Top 5 defense but they need to get closer to 10 than 20 IMO.
Still a great fucking win tonight though!!! lol
At home for the holidays, the rents thought I fell off a chair with the commotion…came to make sure I was okay haha
This. You don’t mess w a respected guy like JKidd
agreed. 97 points against good home offensive team is solid though. Hope Ray and Melo are ok moving forward.
Wopppa Gagnam style!!!
right….. Kidd’s lack of response put the onus on everyone else to stick for him.
Jr may not have had the legs after 40 minutes had that not occurred.
tucker has something coming next year.
Meanwhile in Denver, Corey Brewer hits SIX three pointers as the Nuggets roll the Lakers…
What did Tucker do? I must have looked away at the wrong second
Jr: 27/6/5/5
Kidd: 23/6/8
Tina Cervasio just tweeted:
X-ray on Raymond Felton reveals fracture in right 5th finger (pinky) next course of action will be determined when he returns to NY
Welp, looks like Kidd will be running the offense for a little while more… Felton has some kind of fracture in his pinky.
He shut down Kidd, forced a timeout, talked shit and then slapped his ass.
Shit. This is horrible timing with Ama’re coming back.
need to read this whole thread, but JR SWISH! understudy hero ball FTW, Jason Kidd’s hands somehow are always in the right place despite no hops anymore, basketball genius…
Actually I think it is a blessing in disguise. Felton has been hurt anyway, let him get healthy. JR and Kidd have some synergy, and maybe the Knicks look for a D-League leve pG to have at the end of the bench.
So, what did I miss?
@174, thx. I saw the shut down and timeout, missed the shit and the slap. Punk.
Yup. At least Kidd took over the game tonight in only 30 mins, but if Felton is out for a while things could get ugly. Then again if his hand doesn’t heal, things will probably *stay* ugly, so…
Felton out with a fractured pinky? That may take a month maybe more. I hope he doesn’t need surgery.
We bought the wrong Brewer.
Melo, Felton, and J.R are like a middle-class man’s version of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. Chandler is a rich man’s Serge Ibaka. Wins like this make me feel better about life.
Yeah but the whole idea was to bring Amar’e into the pnr attack with a guy he was really comfortable with.
This dramatically changes the way the Knicks play offense — much more like last season without a penetrating guard. That didn’t work great.
Agreed. We have enough scoring and he was killing us with his inefficiency. He needs to get healthy. Melo is the real concern
I can’t believe they figured out a way to pull that out. Great game from Kidd, who really should be playing PG rather than SG. 23 points, 8 assists, 1 turnover tonight, with a +13 for the game. There was a pretty huge dropoff when Prigioni was in the game.
Im just worried the extra minutes Kidd will have to play now will eventually be too much and he breaks down. Woodson is really going to have to trust Prigs and give him decent minutes to not overwork Kidd.
Lucky this is an easy stretch of the schedule with Iman likely back in the middle of Felton’s absence.
to me the concern is building chemistry between with Felton and Chandler/Amar’e/Melo — that’s the devastating offense that gives the Knicks a chance to go really deep.
winning games in the next month shouldn’t be a huge concern, it’s changing up the offense at least two more times in the next 6 weeks or so.
We will probably just use him in the post more and in isolation. Melo JR and Kidd can run some pnr with him too
a rfractured pinky is likely not that ig a deal, especially if it wasnt obviously franctured. prob a “boxers fracture”. i did that before playing basketall. as long as ligament are OK, he should be good to go pretty soon
Prigs is thinking too much after his session with coaches…
Kidd at pg is what wears him down…. IMo, his shooting improvements are at least partially attributable to more off-ball and less orchestrating the entire offense.
He can still do that, but this is not about the regular season.
hope so
WTF, 76ers won in Memphis tonight by 10.
Yeah, still very excited for Amar’e to come back, but really wanted to see what the middle pnr looked like with him flashing hard from the wing to elbow after Chandler draws everyone into the paint.
Looks like Felton said that after surgery he might be out 4-6 weeks.
Yes, this game really showed Kidd should be playing more PG. I think the ideal finishing lineup is Kidd-Smith-Melo-Ama’re-Chandler and possibly Felton and Shump depending on the matchup.
Yikes
Where is that info from??
Wonder if this is where we try to trade some wing depth for an adequate stop-gap PG to eat some minutes.
Kidd is an absolute stud. I forgot who said it, but he’s an HOFer who still does plenty of HOF things. Also Camby 9 rebounds in 13 minutes. Love how deep our frontcourt is going to be when everybody is healthy and our ability to match up with small ball and traditional lineups.
Felton needs to get back to full health (or as close as possible) and then come back. Him trying to tough it out at 65% like it’s the Eastern Conference Finals in December might help us a bit in the short run, but if we want to make a playoff run we need him to be healthy.
I think it’s more likely you see JR/Shump take pg minutes with White moving into the rotation a bit more.
I don’t think kidd can play that long (starter mins)
Think we r ok with Kidd and Prigs. JR and Shump can play some pg also.
Beat writers all tweeted it after the game, got it straight from Felton.
Oh boy, apparently Woodson said after the game that he is concerned about Melo’s injury according to the writers.
there were a handful of absolutely HUGE calls tonight that all seemed to go against NY, one ridiculous one was the jumper that hit the rim, dropped straight down, Chandler rebounded and sent back out to the perimeter and they didn’t reset the shot clock. that led to Dragic in transition and the flagrant foul which knocked out Dragic for the second half, so maybe actually that bad call won us the game, never mind… :)
did anyone else hear Clyde’s attempt at Dragic, something like Drahdge-ick…
Wow. Given Felton’s history I’d say he comes back sooner.
Phuck…that’s the one that concerns me
I think its safe to say Melo misses Friday’s game since they dont play again until Tuesday it gives him a week off. Hopefully he wont need to miss any more time.
By the way the last time JR hit a game winner Melo was out with a finger injury. Save Knicks fingers….no more JR winners!
I’ve said it before. “I have a bad feeling about Melo’s knee.” He keeps o tweaking that leg. Just like shump last year. You weaken the leg enough times, then you are predisposed to things much worse, like an acl tear.
This franchise is cursed. Stat and billups 2 years ago. Lin, stat, shump, and Davis last year. The icing on the cake would be melo this year. I have a bad feeling.
this would be smart, the win tonight makes it easier to hold him out again also.
Anybody up for taking a flyer on Delonte West and giving him some PG minutes?
Nah, me either.
Umm, Derek Fisher?
Yeah Woodson was so concerned about Melo’s injury that he played pretty much the rest of the game after suffering it and looked fine. Obviously it probably felt a lot worse after he cooled down after the game and they want to be safe with it, but I have a hard time believing it’s going to keep him out very long.
Of course he is worried about an injury to his best player and one who has been among the best in the league this season. He didn’t say anything about him missing extended time or that his knee is deteriorating and he needs to shut it down for a while. He tweaked his knee, rested it, came back, lit up the Nets, moved fluidly and then in a freak accident tweaked it a bit again.
For me this is something any coach would say, but as Knicks fans we are still waiting for the bottom to fall out from this team anytime. These injury problems we have are our worst problems as a team and the best thing about them is they are temporary.
The Nets are a disaster right now. The Celtics are a sieve defensively and can only stop the ISO-everybody Avery Johnson offense. The East beneath us is going to be beating the shit out of each other for the next 4 months. We have a nice little cushion out in front of the division now, which will be invaluable with our current injury situation.
That being said I wouldn’t mind taking a flyer on West. Hell at the minimum he can provide a lot of valuable material for Knicks fans when we face Lebron.
Knicks would have to cut someone to sign any player.
Yeah, I guess the guy you’d cut would be Flight White but I guess Delonte represents too much of a risk considering he’s completely batshit crazy.
This Knicks Now clip shows Melo post game celebrating with JR, i think he will be back soon based on his being shirtless at the end of the game instead of in clothes which proves he was probably working out in some capacity during the game which leads me to believe his injury is not that severe….also he seemed pretty relaxed in general so hopefully he is good for the game against the spurs. http://knicksnow.com/videos/2310/behind-the-scenes-smith-celebrates-with-melo-shump#.UNvz2KVsgld