Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, November 1, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Pacers at Knicks

Whilst you hum Johnny Cash’s “Sunday Mornin’ Comin’ Down” (written by Kris Kristofferson), engage in idle palaver and serious chatter here…

89 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Pacers at Knicks

  1. jon abbey

    SHEED SHEED

    gotta win this one if we’re really going to be a top 2 seed contender, we need Chandler to step up today against a hungry Hibbert.

  2. Sovereign

    Juany8:
    You know what, I have never seen a team get less ref love than the Knicks. This is pure bullshit

    I was just about to post the same darn thing. What the heck is going on there? Melo can be pushed around as much as can be imagined, and there will be absolutely no whistle. And its been like that for the past few games, too.

    They pretty much need to take an axe to him for the refs to whistle a foul…

  3. The Infamous Cdiggy

    jon abbey:
    SHEED SHEED

    gotta win this one if we’re really going to be a top 2 seed contender, we need Chandler to step up today against a hungry Hibbert.

    agreed. he needs to man up in the paint and go get those defensive boards. I do like the early fluidity on offense.

  4. massive

    P&R plays like that are one of the biggest reasons we need Amar’e. Amar’e would have scored, gotten to the line, or both.

  5. ruruland

    Juany8:
    Felton is playing terrible right now on offense. Taking way too many quick shots

    One bad shot against West. Everything else open in the paint. His penetration is huge.

  6. The Infamous Cdiggy

    massive:
    P&R plays like that are one of the biggest reasons we need Amar’e. Amar’e would have scored, gotten to the line, or both.

    Good point. And although we make much to do about Amar’es lack of D, he might body up better defending West n the post. You can see Melo getting backed in s far.

  7. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Today might be a rare day where Melo’s midrange J may be a better option then taking it to the paint?

  8. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Prigs’ decision-making when driving the paint… err, umm. I guess he just needs time to get the shoot-or-pass timing/balance paradigm down pat.

  9. Juany8

    Is Mike Woodson the best motivator in the NBA? This is a serious question, does any other coach get Sheed, JR, and Melo to buy in like this? I know most people thought signing Sheed was the low point of a summer spent adding AARP members, including me, but everyone is playing fantastic. Sheed isn’t even getting technicals!!!!

  10. BigBlueAL

    Remember before the season when some people thought the Pacers were the 2nd best team in the East. LOL

  11. Will the Thrill

    It is a good thing we have Melo for this game. Also, Chandler is making Hibbert look silly while he tries to score.

  12. Juany8

    The Infamous Cdiggy:
    Another nice drive Melo. Scored this time too!

    Melo has been utterly unstoppable going to the basket this year. The spacing and offensive flow is the key difference. I still can’t believe Fields Bibby and Douglas were getting major burn last year. Half of the Knicks rotation from last year is either a 12th man or amongst the worst rotation players in the NBA. I can’t believe Grunwald got all these additions for pretty much nothing either, the combined contracts of all the players acquired cost about the same amount as Lin would have alone lol. (note: I am very bitter that the Rockets let Dragic and Lowry go just to pay Lin the same money, they’ve both been fantastic while Lin has merely been nice)

  13. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    It is a good thing we have Melo for this game. Also, Chandler is making Hibbert look silly while he tries to score.

    This is the Tyson Chandler this team needs. With him playing like this, the Knicks become laughably hard to score on, especially since they don’t turn the ball over so the opponent doesn’t get fast break opportunities. At this point, I think the Knicks are going to have the best defense in the playoffs (yes even above Miami and certainly above Chicago) and it doesn’t hurt that the 2 teams capable of taking advantage of Melo at the 4 are both in the west.

  14. jon abbey

    yeah, Tyson looks better today, loving Sheed and Camby off the bench behind him too.

    also, noon starts are ridiculous, but holding a team to 30 in a half is still impressive.

  15. Will the Thrill

    It’s just nice to see that Tyson has this type of game in him, since we haven’t exactly seen it this year. But I have to admit that a decent amount of the Pacers shots were just missed jumpers.

    Juany8: This is the Tyson Chandler this team needs. With him playing like this, the Knicks become laughably hard to score on, especially since they don’t turn the ball over so the opponent doesn’t get fast break opportunities. At this point, I think the Knicks are going to have the best defense in the playoffs (yes even above Miami and certainly above Chicago) and it doesn’t hurt that the 2 teams capable of taking advantage of Melo at the 4 are both in the west.

  16. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Juany8: Melo has been utterly unstoppable going to the basket this year. The spacing and offensive flow is the key difference. I still can’t believe Fields Bibby and Douglas were getting major burn last year. Half of the Knicks rotation from last year is either a 12th man or amongst the worst rotation players in the NBA. I can’t believe Grunwald got all these additions for pretty much nothing either, the combined contracts of all the players acquired cost about the same amount as Lin would have alone lol. (note: I am very bitter that the Rockets let Dragic and Lowry go just to pay Lin the same money, they’ve both been fantastic while Lin has merely been nice)

    I said this in an earlier post, but watching the style of this team play, I can kinda sorta begin to see why the team opted to let Lin go. Still shouldn’t let an asset go like that for nothing, though, if they truly didn’t have him in their long-term plans. But that’s over with – this team looks good and Melo is beasting on both ends of the court.

  17. jon abbey

    how long is it going to take for people to realize that Jeremy Lin is not really an asset at 3/25? let’s see if he’s even in the top 30 PGs in the league at the end of the year, my guess is no.

    only 2 turnovers for NY in the first half, that’s amazing.

  18. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    It’s just nice to see that Tyson has this type of game in him, since we haven’t exactly seen it this year.But I have to admit that a decent amount of the Pacers shots were just missed jumpers.

    They’re not good shooters though. Plus the Knicks have missed open jumpers too, it happens to everyone. Still impressive to hold a team to 30 for a quarter

  19. Juany8

    jon abbey:
    how long is it going to take for people to realize that Jeremy Lin is not really an asset at 3/25? let’s see if he’s even in the top 30 PGs in the league at the end of the year, my guess is no.

    only 2 turnovers for NY in the first half, that’s amazing.

    Demar Derozan got a $40 million dollar contract. The Magic traded Dwight Howard for Arron Afflalo. Someone with that big of a name recognition is always going to have takers, even if he’s not totally worth the contract. There’s also the fact that the Rockets might have been interested doing a sign and trade if the Knicks had planned to let Lin go properly. Might have been able to get Dragic instead of Felton, or at least a second round pick lol

  20. The Infamous Cdiggy

    jon abbey:
    how long is it going to take for people to realize that Jeremy Lin is not really an asset at 3/25? let’s see if he’s even in the top 30 PGs in the league at the end of the year, my guess is no.

    only 2 turnovers for NY in the first half, that’s amazing.

    The thing about assets is, as long as someone feels it’s valuable, it has value at an given time. Lin may not live up to the 3/25, but someone gave it to him because someone thought he was worth it during the summer.

  21. d-mar

    Anyone with doubts about Felton, watch the way he plays the high screens on defense. He always fights through them, and the Knicks never have to switch. Remember the ridiculous amount of switching we did last year? You never see that any more. Part of it is coaching, but you need a PG who stays with his man through screens, and Felton is doing a great job of that.

  22. Juany8

    The Infamous Cdiggy: The thing about assets is, as long as someone feels it’s valuable, it has value at an given time. Lin may not live up to the 3/25, but someone gave it to him because someone thought he was worth it during the summer.

    Lol had the exact thoughts, Linsanity pretty much gave Lin a full career as long as he doesn’t crap the floor. Look at what we gave Felton because of familiarity, and I think he’s been pretty damn good other than a few issues with shot selection. I’ll give ruru credit, he talked all summer about how Felton was a great penetrator and pick and roll player even if he couldn’t score all that well. He makes so many plays happen at the rim and he’s been pretty steady, while being a much better pick and roll defender than anyone we had last year.

  23. Juany8

    d-mar:
    Anyone with doubts about Felton, watch the way he plays the high screens on defense. He always fights through them, and the Knicks never have to switch. Remember the ridiculous amount of switching we did last year? You never see that any more. Part of it is coaching, but you need a PG who stays with his man through screens, and Felton is doing a great job of that.

    Lin is much improved as a defender last year, but he is awful at guarding pick and rolls. It is so painful to watch him slam into screens over and over, he really needs to get better about that

  24. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Juany8: Lol had the exact thoughts, Linsanity pretty much gave Lin a full career as long as he doesn’t crap the floor. Look at what we gave Felton because of familiarity, and I think he’s been pretty damn good other than a few issues with shot selection. I’ll give ruru credit, he talked all summer about how Felton was a great penetrator and pick and roll player even if he couldn’t score all that well. He makes so many plays happen at the rim and he’s been pretty steady, while being a much better pick and roll defender than anyone we had last year.

    Yeah we were on the same ESP on that one. You beat me to the post by seconds, lol.

  25. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Pacers are getting hot from outside, and the Knicks have blown two layups. Just needs a lil tweaking…

  26. Juany8

    The Infamous Cdiggy:
    Pacers are getting hot from outside, and the Knicks have blown two layups. Just needs a lil tweaking…

    At some point, this just happens lol. You’ll take that result on a possession every single time, sometimes the ball just doesn’t bounce your way. Still very encouraged by the Knicks play, although now that T-1000 is back the Knicks definitely need Novak to step up, he used to hit these shots every time.

  27. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Juany8: At some point, this just happens lol. You’ll take that result on a possession every single time, sometimes the ball just doesn’t bounce your way. Still very encouraged by the Knicks play, although now that T-1000 is back the Knicks definitely need Novak to step up, he used to hit these shots every time.

    True. This Pacers team doesn’t give me the impression they can put together an 8-0 run and shut down the Knicks’ offense for 4 to 5 minutes.

  28. Juany8

    Of course Rasheed Wallace is the Knicks go to scorer. I’m pretty sure Mike Woodson deserves coach of the year right now, there’s no need to watch any more of the season

  29. llcoolbp

    If I ve to hear that idiot mike breen say how tough it is for the pacers whithout granger, i’m going to puke! The knicks don’t have STAT or shump. Every team plays injured.

  30. Juany8

    Seems like the first half wasn’t a fluke, even with some hot shooting the Pacers only have 30 points this half. It’s amazing, I’m starting to have hope for Amar’e. A lineup with Melo at the 4 and a motivated and tough Stoudemire at the 5 would crap on the league offensively.

  31. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Juany8:
    Seems like the first half wasn’t a fluke, even with some hot shooting the Pacers only have 30 points this half. It’s amazing, I’m starting to have hope for Amar’e. A lineup with Melo at the 4 and a motivated and tough Stoudemire at the 5 would crap on the league offensively.

    key words: motivated and tough.

  32. ruruland

    Juany8: At some point, this just happens lol. You’ll take that result on a possession every single time, sometimes the ball just doesn’t bounce your way. Still very encouraged by the Knicks play, although now that T-1000 is back the Knicks definitely need Novak to step up, he used to hit these shots every time.

    He’s not missing by much. He’ll have an amazing percentage by the end of the year.

  33. d-mar

    I feel like this squad will rarely have letdown games against teams they are supposed to beat. And the biggest reasons for that are outstanding defense and coaching and veteran leadership.

  34. Unreason

    Juany8: Is Mike Woodson the best motivator in the NBA? This is a serious question, does any other coach get Sheed, JR, and Melo to buy in like this?

    I wouldn’t give all the credit to Woodson. But all 3 have definitely exceeded my expectations re consistent disciplined play. If that keeps up and Amare has a different year on the defensive end, it will really be a tribute to this whole group of players and coaches and the FO regardless of how deep they go in the playoffs.

  35. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Another win by 10+ points at home. Another game under 13 TOs. Another team held to 80’s or under. AND THEY OUTREBOUNDED SOMEBODY today!

  36. johnlocke

    Takeaways:
    Camby’s best outing of the season I think — got in there and got some boards and played solid D. Played within himself on O.

    Raymond Felton (besides a few missed open looks) really played well..especially in the first half.

    Love how Melo was in Beast mode today, and not settling for the jumper.

    This game was UGGLY at times on the offensive end, but the defense was consistent and that is very encouraging.

    Novak still off…needs more time with Hoopla or confidence coach or something. Think he just needs one game where he goes off from three.

  37. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    Takeaways:
    Camby’s best outing of the season I think — got in there and got some boards and played solid D. Played within himself on O.

    Raymond Felton (besides a few missed open looks) really played well..especially in the first half.

    Love how Melo was in Beast mode today, and not settling for the jumper.

    This game was UGGLY at times on the offensive end, but the defense was consistent and that is very encouraging.

    Novak still off…needs more time with Hoopla or confidence coach or something. Think he just needs one game where he goes off from three.

    Knicks were 28% from 3. With the offensive rebounding, low turnovers and defense, the Knicks will still win a ton of games when they can’t shoot.

    When Amar’e comes back and bolsters the paint scoring and fta, the Knicks will consistently win when they shoot poorly, which of course they won’t.

    Scary stuff.

  38. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Unreason: I wouldn’t give all the credit to Woodson. But all 3 have definitely exceeded my expectations re consistent disciplined play. If that keeps up and Amare has a different year on the defensive end, it will really be a tribute to this whole group of players and coaches and the FO regardless of how deep they go in the playoffs.

    As a NY Giants fan, I’ve seen what happens when the coach adjusts himself/his strategies to adapt to his players well. I think many of us are starting to get the feeling that we’ve had watching the Giants late in the season/postseason the past two Superbowl runs. I’m starting to believe Woodson has tapped into similar veins.

  39. johnlocke

    Agreed on offense. What are your thoughts on incorporating Amare back on D? I’d love to go back to the 18-6 run last season that had Amare in the lineup and watch him on defense.

    Also replacing Prig’s minutes with Shump’s on this team, will be REALLY scary on D.

    ruruland: Knicks were 28% from 3. With the offensive rebounding, low turnovers and defense, the Knicks will still win a ton of games when they can’t shoot.

    When Amar’e comes back and bolsters the paint scoring and fta, the Knicks will consistently win when they shoot poorly, which of course they won’t.

    Scary stuff.

  40. Z-man

    Another win against a projected playoff team. Were people really serous about the Pacers being a #2-#3 seed in the east? Or better than the Knicks?

    Sheed is turning out to be a MONSTER acquisition. Although creaky at times, he has such an effortless look to his game, shows tremendous polish on both ends. He is to the C position what Kidd is to the PG position. One thing’s for sure, Sheed being here is all Woody, he wasn’t coming back for D’Antoni.

  41. johnlocke

    Woodson deserves a lot of credit for getting in JR’s ear, especially in giving consistent effort. He won’t always play smart, but he’s gonna play hard and when talented guys play hard, good things generally happen.

    The Infamous Cdiggy: As a NY Giants fan, I’ve seen what happens when the coach adjusts himself/his strategies to adapt to his players well. I think many of us are starting to get the feeling that we’ve had watching the Giants late in the season/postseason the past two Superbowl runs. I’m starting to believe Woodson has tapped into similar veins.

  42. johnlocke

    They’re a better team than they’re showing, but they don’t have a superstar which is a problem and the closest they have to one – Granger – is out for 2 months, so that kind of throws up the projection. Also, no one predicted Hibbert would being playing so horribly on offense. They should be a top 4 East team based on talent if fully healthy.

    Z-man:
    Another win against a projected playoff team. Were people really serous about the Pacers being a #2-#3 seed in the east? Or better than the Knicks?

    Sheed is turning out to be a MONSTER acquisition. Although creaky at times, he has such an effortless look to his game, shows tremendous polish on both ends. He is to the C position what Kidd is to the PG position. One thing’s for sure, Sheed being here is all Woody, he wasn’t coming back for D’Antoni.

  43. jon abbey

    Woodsonity regular season numbers now:

    25-7 overall
    15-1 at home
    10-6 on the road
    no back to back losses

  44. The Infamous Cdiggy

    johnlocke:
    Woodson deserves a lot of credit for getting in JR’s ear, especially in giving consistent effort. He won’t always play smart, but he’s gonna play hard and when talented guys play hard, good things generally happen.

    100% cosign.

  45. jon abbey

    NY wins the turnover battle again 19-8, amazing. I think turnovers are poorly assigned to individual players in general but overall team turnovers are obviously very telling, and NY has been incredible in this dept, can’t say it enough.

  46. David Crockett

    jon abbey:
    NY wins the turnover battle again 19-8, amazing. I think turnovers are poorly assigned to individual players in general but overall team turnovers are obviously very telling, and NY has been incredible in this dept, can’t say it enough.

    Smarter players, better spacing, and no Amare (let’s keep it real). It’s not only lowered turnovers but fewer head scratching offensive possessions. This is a fun team to watch.

  47. nicos

    The turnover thing is pretty amazing considering how much motion there is on offense- staggered screens, multiple guys cutting, etc… While Felton hasn’t shot well (and shot too much) his ability to get in the lane and get defenses rotating has been huge- he’s also been really, really patient- if there’s something I think Lin might not have been able do that Felton is doing it’s Felton’s willingness to reset the offense multiple times during the same possession if he doesn’t like what he sees.

  48. jon abbey

    nicos:
    While Felton hasn’t shot well (and shot too much)

    shooting percentages matter a lot less when the defense is this strong, for Melo or Felton or whoever. I also think Felton has cut down on his bad shots (long shots early in the shot clock) in the last handful of games.

  49. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    Agreed on offense. What are your thoughts on incorporating Amare back on D? I’d love to go back to the 18-6 run last season that had Amare in the lineup and watch him on defense.

    Also replacing Prig’s minutes with Shump’s on this team, will be REALLY scary on D.

    I’m writing something on that.

  50. ruruland

    jon abbey: shooting percentages matter a lot less when the defense is this strong, for Melo or Felton or whoever. I also think Felton has cut down on his bad shots (long shots early in the shot clock) in the last handful of games.

    They matter less when you are essentially running half-court sets every shot.

    Felton has been great, making sound decisions and setting up a lot of other stuff in the offense.

  51. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    They’re a better team than they’re showing, but they don’t have a superstar which is a problem and the closest they have to one – Granger – is out for 2 months, so that kind of throws up the projection. Also, no one predicted Hibbert would being playing so horribly on offense. They should be a top 4 East team based on talent if fully healthy.

    No one has mentioned anything about the loss of Collison.

    The Pacers should not be this bad without Granger.

    The reason they are so awful on offense is in large part because, like the Knicks much of last year, have no one who consistently penetrates the middle of the defense.

    Hill is an ok player, but Collison was the key to that offense.

    It’s amazing what happens when you don’t get penetration, even when you have some very solid pieces.

  52. ruruland

    Z-man:
    Another win against a projected playoff team. Were people really serous about the Pacers being a #2-#3 seed in the east? Or better than the Knicks?

    Sheed is turning out to be a MONSTER acquisition. Although creaky at times, he has such an effortless look to his game, shows tremendous polish on both ends. He is to the C position what Kidd is to the PG position. One thing’s for sure, Sheed being here is all Woody, he wasn’t coming back for D’Antoni.

    That’s for sure. Players who’ve won championships in this league want to play defense, and want to play for coaches who teach defense. But Woodson is just a good players coach. Strikes the perfect balance or most guys.
    IBut ‘ll bet any amount of money that Kobe is going have issues with MDA — and not because of his role in the offense (though that will be a problem, too).

  53. ruruland

    The Infamous Cdiggy: 100% cosign.

    It’s a great point and you could see it from the day Woodson took over.

    Karl was spiteful of Smith and almost went out of his way to yank his chain, and minutes. I think it took a good year for smith to clear his head of all the head games Karl played wih him, just as he did Ray Allen and Kendall Gill (both guys who once said they literally wanted to kill Karl).

    But let’s credit Smith here, too.

  54. danvt

    I really feel like this was an important win for our confidence as fans. Yes, Woodson is 25-7 but I’m still getting used to this team doing things like playing great defense even with a 10+ point lead. Last year every one of the 18 victories for Woodson was basically a must win. Wasn’t the team 18-24 when he took over? So, I’d like to see them not have to “thrive on adversity” as Clyde would say.

  55. Z-man

    Great article, ruru. And I was thinking the same thing about Collison. I’m also not sold on Hibbert, he is a great shot blocker but reminds me too much of Motumbo except not as mentally tough. Love West and George, though. At full strength, I think we are significantly better.

  56. Z-man

    I have noticed that some here don’t like Prigs; I think it is important to keep him playing 10 mpg or so, just in case Felton tweaks something. I think the guys on the team like him, too! The team chemistry seems unbelievable.

    Speaking of Felton, loved that sequence where he screwed up on the offensive end and hustled back to make a steal from behind. It’s amazing how fast he is, considering how roly poly he looks. Also agree with d-mar that he goes over screens with a vengeance.

    Also liked what I saw out of Camby, his two o-rebounds were a sight for sore eyes.

  57. d-mar

    I really wish we played the Celtics sooner than Jan.7th, I think that would be a great measuring stick game for this squad.

    And I never thought I’d be saying this about 40 yr. old Rasheed Wallace, but he’s a breath of fresh air on this team, a real personality who also knows a lot about playing basketball.

  58. daJudge

    Robert, thank you for your musical allusions, your hard work and your overall cool stuff. Both references are major musical influences of mine. A lot of times I don’t know what you are talking about, but this time I did. I’m sitting by my fire place and I will play something just for you, ‘Poncho and Lefty’ (Townes [Cash covered it]) and I will finish with, ‘Just like a Human’. (Kris)

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