2012-13 Game Thread: NO SLEEP ‘TILL…BROOKLYN
November 26th, 2012 by Robert Silverman | @BobSaietta | Comments | Permalink |
Alas, late word’s come down that Jason Kidd’s out with back spasms. Maybe. No one knows for sure what it is. The Knicks lead the league in pointless secret-keeping.
The Knicks are supersizing in Kidd’s absence, Fred Kerber hath twat, going with a Kurt Thomas-Chandler-Melo-Brewer-Felton starting five. Interesting…
Welp, this should be a fascinating soft opening for Amar’e's return to the lineup, if nothing else. One last thing, if any of you knew four weeks ago that Jason Kidd would be such an essential component in the ‘Bockers success, contact me ASAP. I’d like you to take a gander at my stock portfolio. Help a Brother out!
Have at it!
Hey, did you know that in addition to banging the keys here and occasionally for the NY Times, Robert is a playwright, an actor and a wand'ring mendicant/gadfly? He also once wrestled a bear...and lost.
Another DWI to be reported soon I see.. must’ve had wip-lash and hurt his back from running into sasquatch(Robin Lopez) with his car in central park last night.
Ugh, you never want to hear about your 39-year-old point guard (who has been playing amazingly to start the season) having back spasms. Blech.
I believe you mean “Blatche” its the equivalent of a piece of shit
With all the unemployed people in America, i sit here and wonder why charles Barkley isnt one of them. I mean does the guy even watch any basketball games at all?
Skip Bayless> Charles Barkley, at least Skip can speak English
Tyson is looking lively on the offensive end at least tonight.
Lob city!
Beauty flip from Melo to Tyson on the break.
And here comes ‘Sheed. How much run will Brewer get in Kidd’s absence? Could be 35+ minutes of JR Smith.
Felton sucking thus far
Tyson SMASH!
Why are we doubling Joe freakin Johnson every time he gets the ball?
Defense has gone to shit in the last few minutes.
Because he was being guarded by Felton on the switch
Interior defense still looks a little soft.
Both times? or was it three times?
JR is finally taking it to the rim strong this year, yay!
JR taking it to the basket. I like.
Love that Novak can put the ball on the floor this season.
Camby has been making that pass from the high post for nearly twenty years. I first remember him doing that at UMass against GW.
Nice of Kerr to note the hockey assist from Melo, and that he has been doing it all season. Quite the welcome change from the usual “ball stopper” talk.
Yeah and Wallace missed a pass just like that
Carmelo and JR are locked in and frankly playing like bosses tonight. If Felton can stop coughing it up and our defense steps it up I have a good feeling about this game, though I’m sure the Nets will keep it close at the very least–there is a lot of talent on that squad.
That call on Camby might be the worst foul call I’ve ever seen in all my years of watching the NBA.
anyone wanna tell camby to box out evans? put his ass on the bench.. boxing out is fundamental. get your head in the game camby or sit
Josh Childress looks really surprised to be on the floor.
Prigioni is a really effective pest.
it was an ok call.
and finally a loose ball goes the Knicks way thanks to Prigs.
Best. Shot. Ever…
That Wallace dunk is on ‘Melo, who lost track of his man because he was ball watching.
Melo needs to commit on those double teams
A few too many shots having to be forced at the buzzer.
Felton, Smith, Melo, Brewer and Chandler. This is the best Knick lineup without Kidd right?
This is a really fun game. Brooklyn is much better at defense than I thought they’d be. Might actually get home court in the first round
Nice bump up in defensive intensity in the second quarter. The Nets are pla
Evans 8 boards in 8 minutes, this needs to stop
…The Nets are playing a really disciplined game, protecting the ball really well, and the Knicks still did a good job playing straight-up defense.
Good game.
Knicks went big for most of the first half. Could see this working alot better with amaré at the 4.
I hope Marcus Camby can eventually do some meaningful things on the basketball court. He’s been pretty useless so far.
I hate to say it but Prigioni reminds me of a slightly craftier Chris Duhon. Has some skills but his refusal/inability to shoot nullifies them.
I thought it was JR on that one, JR also got caught ball-watching and gave up a wide open path to the basket for Watson.
Please note that this game is not boring.
Whoa, Carmelo actually got a routine, run of the mill superstar call. He usually needs to be slaughtered to get a call
Great D from Chandler
Agh, Melo really has to stop pushing off. He seems to be getting more offensive fouls than defensive!
Oh well the Nets are getting 10 makeup calls to make up for it never mind
Let’s give credit to the refs for calling at least 1 foul on the last 6 possessions. Everyone knows we came to watch them, not the Nets and Knicks
Eh, bad call. That was off Williams.
‘Melo has improved his effort so much on defense. He really has to learn to stop ball watching, particularly when guarding a cutter like Wallace.
As Clyde would say, “See the ball and see your man.”
Two straight trips that the Nets could not guard the high pick. First time, PNR leads to Tyson Smash. Next time, PnP leads to ‘Sheed three.
So Kerr says Amar’e will have no problem coming off the bench but he’ll still screw everything up?
I actually think is a very real possibility. Amare comes back, says all the right things, comes off the bench, and messes everything up. Im a pessimist though.
Dang, my TV just switched over to ESPN classic by mistake, and showed a game with Jerry Stackhouse in it.
Knicks lost their focus there at the end of the third quarter. 9-1 run, not cool.
Nets have committed to playing Reggie Eans. Make him play PNR defense. He just cannot defend in space. It also pulls him 23′ away from the basket.
Dumb play JR.
The Lopez basket caused by TC being slow getting back on D, because he was upset about the pass thrown by Felton.
Makes it up the next time down the court with his own 3 point play.
Felton is playing like a pile of hot poop in this game.
Never good when Anthony gets into “Do it all” mode.
GOD DAMMIT
This team really misses Kidd. The collective basketball IQ of this team plummets without Kidd.
Considering what utter crap most of his teammates are playing like on the offensive end, I can’t blame Melo for the heroball too much.
I will give Anthony this: he doesn’t quit on those second shot attempts.
Apparently this is already a GIF
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/11/26/3695588/the-most-j-r-smith-play-ever
Wow these free throws!!
Triple stack PNR leads to Tyson SMASH
But very little has come of it. I don’t mind the drives or the quick shots in rhythm, but those hold the ball pound it in possessions are not good at all. But if they win, who will care?
Brook Lopez cannot take TC one on one. His belief to the contrary leads to a key TO.
Nice airball, Felton.
What the fuck is Felton doing?
It took 12 games, but I now remember why people didn’t want Felton here.
YESSSSS Lopez
Isn’t that about how long it took last time too?
Why in the name of holy hell does Raymond Felton take that shot there? Play point guard, dammit.
If Felton takes the last shot I’m going to walk over to the Atlantic Center and slap him
If Felton shoots, drop him
C’mon Melo. This is when you really earn that check.
Do not launch the shot before 2 seconds left. Take the chance to win, but leave not time for the Nets to come back down.
NOooooooo
Maybe Felton should have shot. That was a pretty mediocre play.
Why did we leave them time? We run out the clock down 1 against another team and not all the way when we are tied?
Carmelo went a shade too soon.
That was the same play they ran against Dallas. He did the same pull up jumper, from the same side of the court, at about the same spot. So I really don’t understand why he missed.
I know WTF.
A contested 20 footer. Well, that’s just great.
Overtime. It figures.
Put TC and ‘Melo into the PnR. The Nets cannot defend it.
+1
So Felton decide take all Kidds shot this game?
If Tyson will put his body into Wallace as he chance Melo would not have to worry about getting his shot block
Why didn’t we run that?!
Stackhouse has discovered the fountain of middle age.
Ray Felton sucks
Give me James White or Wallace
Open 3pt looks, not like he driving dunking over 2 people.
Didn’t know how utterly stupid we’d play without Jason Kidd. Now I know.
Knicks are totally blowing this game. They really miss Kidd right now, Felton needs to be benched
Melo looks gassed this OT, understandably, and as a result we just look lost on offense. I kind of want to see the JR Smith show start and just hope he catches fire in these last 2 minutes.
There is no one to replace Felton. Can’t play Prigioni in crunch time.
Just got home. This sucks.
Felton with ANOTHER incredibly stupid play lol Toney Douglas dumb.
Jerry Stackhouse. Seriously.
Every Knick not named Carmelo Anthony or Tyson Chandler pretty much sucked in this game.
I guess old teams can’t win back-to-backs.
Now we have to hear how the Nets are better despite needing overtime to win at home against the Knicks missing 3 pretty important players.
Man, the Nets are such floppers!
I dont think I can stomach listening to Barkley after the game.
Hard to believe the Knicks almost pulled this out despite some truly putrid play by some of their key players. Take out Melo and Chandler and the Knicks scored 26 points on 47 FGA. Pretty horrendous.
Yeah give me Shump, Stat and Kidd and I like my chances every time against the Nets
I just really hope this talk about how the Knicks dont need Amar’e stops. They desperately need him if they really want to be contenders. I dont care if its only for 20-25 mins/g, he can still be a huge asset.
Pretty funny tweet by Haberstroh on ESPN.com: “By missing 16 shots, I think Raymond Felton assisted on all of Tyson Chandler’s career-high 28 points.”
Alright guys I only got to see overtime so cant really comment on the game. Tough loss with a tough game coming up on Wed, lets just hope Kidd and Brewer arent injured for a decent amount of time.
Immediately turned the channel when I knew all hope is lost. Half of me wanted the Knicks to win just so I don’t have to hear all their drivel.
You beat me to it. We just witnessed Ray Felton and Rasheed Wallace combine to go 5-30 in a key game against a division rival. That kind of crap needs to stop.
And our bench was 5-21 for a grand total of 12 points. Novak is pretty useless against good defensive teams.
Missed the game b/c of work and DVRed MSG… grrr, oh well. Glad I missed what looks like an agonizing loss from the box score. Was Felton really that horrendous? Geezus. His line looks like Shumpert’s game against Memphis last year… just putrid. How did JR shoot 7 times and Raymond shoot 19 times?? He didn’t realize he wasn’t hot?? Novak attempted three shots? This is why we miss Stat and Shump if we have any injuries with this team to any of the core guys (Wallace v Houston; Kidd tonight), the wheels fall off. And why is Camby only playing 5 minutes? Final thoughts everyone (except Camby and Kurt) are going to need an ice bucket after this game with 40+ minutes across the board.
Camby looks finished to me. He looks slow, disinterested and feeble. Maybe he’s just out of shape and he’ll pull it together, but if you watch him play for a few minutes it’s not hard to see why he’s not in the rotation.
Felton shot so much because Felton always shoots so much; he’s second on the team in FGA and he’s shooting more per 36 minutes than he has in his whole career. Also has the highest usage percentage of his career. Because Ray Felton is a chucker who doesn’t know when to stop shooting. He’s had some good games this season but overall I can’t stand his game.
As bad as Felton was- and he’s the first guy on the hook for this one- most of those misses came off of penetration and about half of them were put back in by Chandler. He took a quick three when Carmelo had it rolling in the third and another ill-advised pull up late but his shot selection wasn’t awful (and I think a couple of those floaters that fell two feet short may have been lob attempts). Unfortunately, the only thing the Knicks could do was post-up Melo (who was definitely gassed towards the end) or run PNR with Felton- JR really couldn’t get anything going and Novak is only going to get a shot if someone gets it for him. Give the Nets credit for solid defense throughout.
agreed completely. felton’s shot selection wasnt bad, he just shot poorly. his penetration often leads to good things even on misses. i know he will take the heat for this one, but i dont mind the shots he took. the only other offense we were running was the melo, iso plays, and that wasnt working down the stretch. i like melo and i feel he can get his without force feeding him, especially down the stretch. why so many knick fans (not neceesarily on this board) want to force it to him at the ends of games is shocking. it never really worked for the Nuggets and there is no evidence it would work here. we need to continue to run team offense and live with the occasional Flton/ Jr/ novak / anyone else/ stinker
No, he’s played the way he’s always played.
Camby struggles against very physical high energy power forwards and centers.
He does not like to leave the paint,. he baits penetrators so he can try to lock their shos. Offensively, he is a good passer who crashes the boards and will knock down an occasional jumper.
His numbers belie his actual defensive impact, but he’s still going to give some excellent minutes this year.
I wouldn’t worry about it. In the playoffs he’ll change a few games with his prescence and hustle.
Melo was spectacular, everyone else (except for Chandler) was horrendous. The Nets threw EVERY BODY at Melo and he played what, 50 minutes? At one point I thought Beyonce was gonna have to check him. Unreal. That was by far the worst I have ever seen Felton play. He was jacking up horrible shit. The tweet about missing 16 shots and every one (damn near) a Chandler assist — lol.
You are right on about Felton. 3/18 but at least 10 of those misses were good misses. How many led to easy putbacks?
Second, let’s all remember the great lesson we learned last year.
You cannot play “team basketball” without penetration and the ability to knok down jump shots.
I’m not sure what you mean by force feeding the ball to Anthony didn’t work in Denver, and I’m not sure what else you’d prefer tonight?
Melo is great isolation and post-up player. He was creating double teams and open shots in the first half as he’s throughout his career.
Would you prefer the ball in Smith’s hands? Do you want Ray Felton taking another open jump shot in the pnr?
I’m working on a piece about Amar’e Stoudmire’s return
If you can’t see why he’s so valuable after a night like tonight, please don’t commnent on my scribbling about it.
That’s not intended for you per se.
But Felton was taking really good shots. Atrocious shooting games happen. Paul had 1-12 the other night.
Felton is obviously no Paul, but the two guys basically take the same kind of shots. Felton generally makes very good decisions.
The Nets bet that Felton couldn’t beat them and that bet paid off — for a game. It gets a lot more complicated for them when Amar’e returns.
Ruru — you may be right — but Felton made some really bad decisions towards the end (4th qtr + OT). I agree every pg has bad shooting night(s) but Felton needed to recognize what was working and what was not working. I have been impressed with him, but the Houston game and tonight — definitely poor outings. And yes, another option (STAT) is needed in a huge way.
It’ll be more than that and you’re absolutely right. Glad it took this kind of playoff-feel game for people to get that.
Good teams take away the easy stuff. They focus on the really good things you do, which is why the high pnr kind of struggled Lopez and Wiliams did a good job. They were helping off Brewer.
Getting Amar’e the ball open 15 feet from the basket off of Chandler dives is money.
Open jumpers or slower big men trying to close out on him. That sets up the kind of movement game he is incredible in.
There is no way you can defend this and uderstand Woodson been thinking about it for months;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_iv2BDUQg4
All this loss says is that Jason Kidd is a really big part of the Knicks offense, Knicks have lost every road game on the second night of a back to back this season (and if you think of thanksgiving as something all their losses have been after busy nights lol)
Houston wasn’t a b2b. Kidd would have made a big difference tonight. I actually thought there were a ton of positives on defense and on the glass tonight.
Felton was really exposed without Kidd there, yikes. and why the hell does Woodson run endless pick and rolls with Felton and Chandler when the other three guys on the court are Melo, Smith and Novak?
the crowd was probably 50/50 Knicks/Nets, I think this BROOKLYN, BROOKLYN chant is hilarious since I believe every other time it’s been done previously, it’s been to mock the opposition (didn’t it start with DARRYL, DARRYL on the 80′s Mets?).
massive effort by Chandler, that has to be close to his career high. when the rest of your team after your top two scorers combines for 26 points, it’s amazing you have a chance to win at the buzzer on the ‘road’ against a good team. alas, it was not to be.
The Nets were actually pretty disciplined on defense- a lot of the secondary action off of the pnr wasn’t there because their wings stayed at home for the most part and Felton couldn’t kick the ball out for open threes off of the drive as he has so often this season. Conversely, the Knicks once again got caught staring at the ball too often and let the Nets move enough to generate offense even when Stackhouse was the only guy who hit anything from outside.
Because Melo, Smith and Novak are all superb spot-up shooters. Melo and Smith can make plays when defenders sag.
Because of all the surrounding talent, the Nets opted to not help on the pick and roll and instead let Felton and Chandler get their shots.
Many nights that’s a strategy that will backfire in a massive way — we’ve seen it all year. Tonight it resulted in (roughly) 15-32 (including offensive rebounds which were the result of the pnr) with free throws and higher than normal turnovers because of the extra dribbling.
That’s pretty good efficiency on the surface. But it’s probably way below the efficiency the Knicks normally get on the play when defenders sag.
Now, if the Nets choose to utilize that strategy in the playoffs, forget about all the tings Amar’e does for you, Felton is going to shoot a lot better than that on those kind of looks 6 out of 7 games.
(Chandler’s efficiency on the alley-oops and put-backs won’t change much, so that part of it will remain the same.)
That’s why the high pnr with the game’s best dive man, a fast pg who is a skilled passer and smart decision-maker, and shooters and guys who can make plays against out of position defenders is the best offensive play in basketball.
You don’t happen to think Amar’e Stoudemire could abuse Kris Humprhies and Reggie Evans, do you?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=stoudam01&p2=humphkr01
Yeah, there were some breakdowns on defense in a lot of areas, but overall the really good defensive possessions far outnumbered the bad ones.
The way the Knicks team defended in the second half was really eoncouraging. The really good defensive team is in there, we just won’t always see it.
Most of the time, especially when Amar’e comes back, it won’t matter much. Knicks just need to make sure they turn it on for 10-15 minutes a game so they’re sharp when they need for full games against the elite teams.
I think you guys are missing my point, though. if it’s not working (and it mostly wasn’t), stop running the pick and roll every play, run more plays through Smith and Melo and let them create for themselves or their teammates. after a certain point, it was crazy to have the ball in Felton’s hands so much.
it is kind of encouraging that we’re without three key rotation guys (Kidd/Amar’e/Shumpert) and still almost beat one of the best teams in the East on the ‘road’. I sure hope Kidd is back Wednesday, though.
OKC was beating CHA 79-25 midway through the 3rd? that doesn’t even seem possible.
and wow was Slick Rick embarrassing at halftime, although they did him no favors with a quiet backing track and no posse around him.
I personally do not think it is alright to accept “encouraging” loses. God dammit I wanted this win to make up for the Houston game. I do not think 20 plus win blowout games are “boring” on any level and anyone that does should really put their energy into something more constructive for themselves. This was a rough one boys. Melo’s contested 20 footer at the end of reg is not the shot he should be looking for as our finisher. We really missed kidd tonight. He is absolutely essential to this team. Didn’t think so when we signed him but dude can ball so craftily hard. I would have liked to see us go after people in foul trouble more, most notably brook lopez. I believe he had 5 fouls for a good portion of the 4th qrt and d wills had 4. We need to force them to foul out in close games, something kidd I think would have done. I honestly feel deep rooted angst towards brook back lopez mountain, in a jealous/frustrating sense as he is much better than I recall. Also our guard situation going forward could be an issue with Brewers potentially lingering knee and dislocated finger, kidd’s new meeting with back spasms, and shump still weeks away. Not sure if it is possible but I would love to dump white for delonte west. The one thing I think we can take away from this game is that help is on the way brothers. Also it is November and I keep telling myself we should relax as I have no doubt that we are a better team than the nets at full strength and should be the 2nd seed in the east. Let it be known the rivalry has most certainly begun.
Why Ray Felton is wack:
.491 TS%
25.0 USG%
by the way, only 4 of Chandler’s baskets were offensive rebounds/follows from Felton misses, FWIW, and Felton got assists on three others.
Kidd is probably the Knicks 4th best player, he has a massive influence when he’s in the game, and even without him (and Brewer in overtime) The Knicks still essentially tied a team that looks like it will win 50 games. Injuries matter, the Knicks were already dealing with some significant injuries before the game and at some point you lose too many valuable players and you end up with Raymond Felton running the offense in the 4th quarter of a close game.
Melo went absolutely beast mode last tonight, he left no doubt who’s the best player in New York (and I don’t think it’s that close anymore, I’d take Tyson Chandler over Deron Williams too)
At some point you have to realize that the absolutely elite teams do not give two shits about regular season losses like this. How many times has Poppovich simply left his bench out there in place of his starters? How many games have the Celtics taken a night off on the road against crappy Eastern Conference teams? The benefit to having an old team is winning the big games when they count, not random back to backs when key players are injured. That’s why I always thought a 60 win prediction was absurd, I think it’s more likely they make the Finals than win 60. It’s been 4 years since a 60 win team even made the Finals