Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, April 19, 2014

106 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread Knicks vs Suns

  1. jon abbey

    PHX is the worst at the league at defending 3s, NY is the best in the league at making them. let’s make a lot and end this early, thx in advance.

  2. ephus

    Brewer shooting early in the shotclock off the bounce – Bad Idea.

    Brewer getting fed by Chandler on the cut off of the offensive rebound – A Thing Of Beauty (and a joy forever).

  3. maxwell_3g

    ephus:
    Tyson SMASH!

    one thing that goes nnoticed in the tyson/ amare discussion, is that at this point, tyson is sooo much better at finishing at the rim than amare last year. there is a big difference between a dunk and a guy who catches the lop, comes down with it, gathers himself, and them goes back up. it the difference between 98% and 70% conversion rate

  4. EB

    maxwell_3g: one thing that goes nnoticed in the tyson/ amare discussion, is that at this point, tyson is sooo much better at finishing at the rim than amare last year.there is a big difference between a dunk and a guy who catches the lop, comes down with it, gathers himself, and them goes back up.it the difference between 98% and 70% conversion rate

    This is true but Amare can catch it and make one move and then finish which lets him take more good shots than Chandler. Also he beats the hell out of Camby KT or Sheed on the finish

  5. maxwell_3g

    EB: This is true but Amare can catch it and make one move and then finish which lets him take more good shots than Chandler. Also he beats the hell out of Camby KT or Sheed on the finish

    i cant argue with your second point. i guess I want dunks, not amare’s moves, off the oick and roll

  6. maxwell_3g

    that is such an awful call. ball dont lie. you cant stop the guy from going for the 3 point plkay i guess. there refs are awful, and then they t you up for telling the truth

  7. Frank O.

    Some one explain to me why “ball done lie!” Is a tech. It has happened twice this season that he has cried that and gotten end T-ed up.

  8. ephus

    Wow. Screaming “Ball Don’t Lie!” really gets under the Refs’ skin. So long ‘Sheed.

    Copeland has to be ready to run 25+ today, if the Knicks turn this into early garbage time.

  9. ephus

    Knicks got away with a horrible defensive trip. Novak let Gortat go in the paint, but Copeland did not rotate. Gortat missed the bunny, so no harm.

  10. Nick C.

    Of if “ball don’t lie” = tech he might be smart enough to figure it out and act accordingly. It doesn’t matter much today even with Camby not suiting up. The Suns suck. But one day it might.

  11. ephus

    Prigioni’s pass first reputation led to that turnover on the attempt to feed back to Smith on fast break. Prigs has to take that to the rim.

  12. maxwell_3g

    prigs needs to look for his shot. hes passing up open 3′s (which are good shots for him). the break was actually JR’s fault. he should have just kept the ball in the middle land of the break

  13. maxwell_3g

    i love how JR wanted to shoot that, but knew it was a bad shot. so he passed to kurt, who obviously passed it right back. after making the pass to Kurt, JR felt fully justified in firing away

  14. ephus

    Novak has picked up the defensive intensity over the last three games. The hard foul when one of the Bucks (Ellis?) tried to take it to the rim was appreciated by the bench. He also looks more like himself on offense.

  15. maxwell_3g

    ephus:
    Novak has picked up the defensive intensity over the last three games.The hard foul when one of the Bucks (Ellis?) tried to take it to the rim was appreciated by the bench.He also looks more like himself on offense.

    agreed completely. not sure if the defense intenity of offensive intensity came first, but he ha to maintain the defense even when his shot is off

  16. maxwell_3g

    scole, if you dont want to be called for a foul, stop flopping and making it look like there was all kinds of contact

  17. yellowboy90

    This game is so entertaining to me and its not even because of the score or great play. It’s the blunders. The miss dunks, the techs, and etc. I guess the great play allows those moments to be funny.

  18. massive

    I’m wondering, does it look like the Knicks are playing hard to you? The Knicks look like they’re coasting through this game, and they’re still up big on Phoenix. You can argue that Cope is playing hard, but Norris Cole seems to play his hardest every night lol.

  19. jon abbey

    if Copeland can actually play, that leaves only James White to prove he can contribute to make NY 15 deep (assuming Camby shows signs of life at some point). very impressive first half minutes from Copeland, at a time when NY badly needed them.

  20. The Infamous Cdiggy

    massive:
    I’m wondering, does it look like the Knicks are playing hard to you? The Knicks look like they’re coasting through this game, and they’re still up big on Phoenix. You can argue that Cope is playing hard, but Norris Cole seems to play his hardest every night lol.

    They’re coasting on D. That And-1 by Brown clear evidence. I expect Woodson to dig into the team a bit during this TO and implore them to FINISH THEM Mortal Kombat-style.

  21. ephus

    Phoenix has decided to leave Felton open on the side PnR with ‘Melo. Felton has made them pay the price repeatedly.

    Nice open court D by ‘Melo!

  22. The Infamous Cdiggy

    JR is short today on make-able shots.

    I don’t now if the Suns can make a sustained run to make it close, but the Knicks need to dig in one good time on D… a 8-0 run would do nicely right now.

  23. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Thomas needs to come out. I know he’s spelling Tyson, but he’s mauling instead of boxing out.

  24. ephus

    If ‘Melo is going to be in the game, Felton has to feed him instead of taking 23 foot jumpers off the bounce.

  25. The Infamous Cdiggy

    maxwell_3g:
    we are defending the pick and roll very poorly today

    couple that w/a frigid Smith and some Brewer bricks and the lead is down to 9

  26. ephus

    Why do I have a feeling that some nightclub made a bunch of $$$ off of JR Smith last night? For whatever reason, he has no legs in his shot and cannot get to the rim.

  27. The Infamous Cdiggy

    ephus:
    Why do I have a feeling that some nightclub made a bunch of $$$ off of JR Smith last night?For whatever reason, he has no legs in his shot and cannot get to the rim.

    Or gentleman’s club?
    -Bands will make her dance…

  28. The Infamous Cdiggy

    maxwell_3g:
    is anyone else surprised how shockingly bearable JR’s 1-11 has been today?

    Somewhat. Even at 40% shooting, he could’ve helped un-stagnate some of the offense in the 4th and staved off this late Suns run.

  29. flossy

    15 games into the season (not including this one), Tyson Chandler has an ORtg of 147. That is bananas.

  30. ruruland

    flossy:
    15 games into the season (not including this one), Tyson Chandler has an ORtg of 147.That is bananas.

    What does it mean?

  31. ephus

    Frank O.:
    Anybody check JR’s twitter account last night to see how late he was up?

    Last tweet on Saturday night at 1:08 am (responding to tweet telling him to stop living the “vamp life” and get some sleep.) JR’s response was I’ll sleep when I die.

    First tweet on Sunday morning at 6:19 am (celebrating the “great morning”)

  32. Will the Thrill

    HAHA

    ephus: Last tweet on Saturday night at 1:08 am (responding to tweet telling him to stop living the “vamp life” and get some sleep.)JR’s response was I’ll sleep when I die.

    First tweet on Sunday morning at 6:19 am (celebrating the “great morning”)

  33. jon abbey

    too bad the streak of double digit wins at home is over, but not surprising with the very short bench. did Copeland not play at all in the second half after that great first half? very odd.

  34. ruruland

    flossy: That the Knicks score a fuck ton of points when Chandler is on the floor.

    Not exactly.

    They score more points with other players on the floor. Melo far and away highest offensive +/-. I think it just means he’s super efficient at what he does. Ortg doesn’t tell us his great impact on the Knicks shooting, or how important his screening is.

    With this personnel around him, Chandler doesn’t need to have any sort of shot creation game. His inability to do anything inside last year really hurt IMO.

  35. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    too bad the streak of double digit wins at home is over, but not surprising with the very short bench. did Copeland not play at all in the second half after that great first half? very odd.

    I just thought it was kind of a flat game after those first 6-7 minutes. This is kind of how the NBA works.

    Suns have a pretty good offense and will stay in games against teams that turn it down a few notches.

  36. EB

    ruruland: Not exactly.

    They score more points with other players on the floor. Melo far and away highest offensive +/-. I think it just means he’s super efficient at what he does. Ortg doesn’t tell us his great impact on the Knicks shooting, or how important his screening is.

    With this personnel around him, Chandler doesn’t need to have any sort of shot creation game.His inability to do anything inside last year really hurt IMO.

    Where’d you get those numbers? According to 82 games Chandler is at +19.8 pts on offense on the court and Melo is +19.

    Sites not up to date though, wondering if you have other info.

  37. danvt

    Amazing. 12-4 record, 7-0 at the Garden, no Kidd, Rasheed fouls out, and I’m still pissed that Tyson and Carmelo had to even be on the court in the 4th quarter.

    Felton really played well.

    Chris Copeland was outstanding! I wouldn’t be unhappy to see him take some minutes from the elderly PF troika. After all the SSOL (really SOL) the last few years it does look like the offense is running in mud at times. I like the patience but it seems to lack crispness and movement at times when the bench is playing. I love the way Cope found Novak for the Trey.

  38. EB

    I’m also wondering with the number of putback dunks Chandler gets, if he is getting basically double points in O-rtg. Basically something like 1 point for the O-board and then 2 for the points. I can’t find the formula for O-rtg.

    I’m pretty sure it doesn’t say anything though about what others are doing though just what Tyson does.

    Also Chandler has yet to play at an average usage for one entire game this season.

  39. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    1.94 PPS (highest in league)
    .751 TS% (highest in league, would set a record by like, 4 hundredths of a point. HUNDREDTHS.)
    .284 WS/48 (highest in league)
    .337 WP/48 (3rd in league with players +300 MP, Kidd’s first)
    147 ORTG (highest in league)

    And a defending DPOY.

    And jon abbey laughs at me when I say he’s a top-10 player. I might be underselling him.

  40. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    1.94 PPS (highest in league)
    .751 TS% (highest in league, would set a record by like, 4 hundredths of a point. HUNDREDTHS.)
    .284 WS/48 (highest in league)
    .337 WP/48 (3rd in league with players +300 MP, Kidd’s first)
    147 ORTG (highest in league)

    And a defending DPOY.

    And jon abbey laughs at me when I say he’s a top-10 player. I might be underselling him.

    yeah, there’s no way in hell he’s a top 10 player, but whatever makes you sleep better at night. his D has been sporadic at best so far this year, FWIW.

  41. Frank O.

    ephus: Last tweet on Saturday night at 1:08 am (responding to tweet telling him to stop living the “vamp life” and get some sleep.)JR’s response was I’ll sleep when I die.

    First tweet on Sunday morning at 6:19 am (celebrating the “great morning”)

    5 hours for a pro athlete…explains a lot

  42. EB

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    1.94 PPS (highest in league)
    .751 TS% (highest in league, would set a record by like, 4 hundredths of a point. HUNDREDTHS.)
    .284 WS/48 (highest in league)
    .337 WP/48 (3rd in league with players +300 MP, Kidd’s first)
    147 ORTG (highest in league)

    And a defending DPOY.

    And jon abbey laughs at me when I say he’s a top-10 player. I might be underselling him.

    Except Jason Kidd has a .761 TS% and 151 O-rtg.

  43. jon abbey

    Felton was 10-17 with 7 assists and 0 turnovers, plus 3 of his 7 misses were put back immediately by Chandler, the “Felton miss/assist” coined up thread. huge game for him, counteracting JR’s terribleness.

  44. yellowboy90

    The knicks are really playing cocky right now. They totally disrespected the Suns. They new the game was over half way through the 1st. I do not know how I feel about that. I kind of like it because I see how good this team is and its not even at full strength.
    I believe that Amar’e will work in this team system with Melo and Tyson. Man when he and Shump come back. SMH

  45. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    EB: Except Jason Kidd has a .761 TS% and 151 O-rtg.

    Sorry, didn’t see him on the B-R list because he doesn’t qualify for the MP leaderboard.

  46. llcoolbp

    Frank O.: Crap

    And so it begins. The annual parade of injuries to crucial players. That’s why you really have to respect the lebrons and Kobe’s of the world. Play big minutes year in and out, at a high level, and never break down. That’s why their teams are perrenial winners. Even melo gets dinged up every year, and it will be worse if Felton misses some time. Greater burden on melo. Felton is our second option on offense right now. I really hope this is nothing.

  47. llcoolbp

    Plus when knick players get hurt it almost always seems like it takes them double or triple the predicted time table to return. They are like the mets in that respect.

  48. jon abbey

    Kobe gets hurt all the time, he just never sits because he wants to break Kareem’s scoring record.

    Kidd is supposedly almost ready to come back, but Felton would still be a big loss, even in the short term. fingers crossed it’s nothing too bad…

  49. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    llcoolbp:
    Plus when knick players get hurt it almost always seems like it takes them double or triple the predicted time table to return. They are like the mets in that respect.

    At least we haven’t had many high draft picks in the last fifteen years to hang our hopes on. I can handle Felton breaking his hand and being out for six weeks more than I can knowing that, for example, Kevin Durant could have been had instead of Greg Oden.

  50. JK47

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: At least we haven’t had many high draft picks in the last fifteen years to hang our hopes on. I can handle Felton breaking his hand and being out for six weeks more than I can knowing that, for example, Kevin Durant could have been had instead of Greg Oden.

    Or that Eddy Curry could have been Lamarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

  51. Juany8

    Steve Kerr career offensive rating: 122 points per 100 possessions with a TS% of 59.3%

    Michael Jordan career offensive rating: 118 points per 100 possessions with a TS% of 56.9%

    During the Bulls 3 peat from 96-98, Kerr had offensive ratings of 141, 137, and 124. Jordan had offensive ratings of 124, 121, and 114. I guess we know who was the truly great offensive player on those Bulls teams then

  52. d-mar

    Just finished up the game on DVR. A few observations:

    – Felton with 0 turnovers in 39 minutes is just outstanding
    – Chandler seems to have his defensive mojo back, he was all over the court blitzing screens and playing help D
    – Surviving really bad JR is nice, but let’s just hope we don’t see it against a good team
    – What the hell happened to Scola, he looked completely lost out there

    And credit Woodson with having them ready in the 1st quarter, I think we all believed they would start sluggish, and they came out smoking.

  53. Z-man

    If Felton goes down, I guess Pablocura starts for real next game. Should be interesting! Anyone in the D-league we can bring up?

  54. Z-man

    I missed the 2nd half today, nice to see that we took care of business. I, for one, didn’t like the way that Rasheed put himself ahead of the team. Seriously, what play in the first half merits two techs, especially when your team is winning, your starting C has 2 fouls, and your third-string center is out? Quick hook or not, the foul was so obviously excessive, why show up the ref? That’s Sheed, I guess.

  55. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Juany8:
    Steve Kerr career offensive rating: 122 points per 100 possessions with a TS% of 59.3%

    Michael Jordan career offensive rating: 118 points per 100 possessions with a TS% of 56.9%

    During the Bulls 3 peat from 96-98, Kerr had offensive ratings of 141, 137, and 124. Jordan had offensive ratings of 124, 121, and 114. I guess we know who was the truly great offensive player on those Bulls teams then

    I’m trying to figure out how Scottie Pippen posts career highs in TS% during the season where MJ didn’t play at all, and then in the abbreviated season that followed. I guess that since Jordan is the causal agent in Kerr being awesome at shooting the ball, he’s also responsible for Pippen being better when Jordan’s absent, eh?

  56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Oh, forgive me: it was only ’95 in which he was so good when Jordan wasn’t there for most of the season. Still, he somehow got better w/r/t efficiency AND usage in ’94, so — shit — you explain that one to me.

  57. Juany8

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Oh, forgive me: it was only ’95 in which he was so good when Jordan wasn’t there for most of the season. Still, he somehow got better w/r/t efficiency AND usage in ’94, so — shit — you explain that one to me.

    Explain to you how one of the 50 best players of all time doesn’t need people setting him up? Really? Oh and Steve Kerr, who’s a role player who WOULD have his shooting affected by Jordan’s presence, had remarkably lower efficiency the 4 years before he played full time with Jordan, only posting a TS% above his career average once before playing at least a partial season with Jordan.

    So yes, the superstar point forward who was also one of the best defenders of all time is quite capable of raising his usage without hurting, or even sometimes helping, his efficiency. Steve Kerr didn’t have the same luck it would seem…

  58. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Juany8: Explain to you how one of the 50 best players of all time doesn’t need people setting him up? Really? Oh and Steve Kerr, who’s a role player who WOULD have his shooting affected by Jordan’s presence, had remarkably lower efficiency the 4 years before he played full time with Jordan, only posting a TS% above his career average once before playing at least a partial season with Jordan.

    So yes, the superstar point forward who was also one of the best defenders of all time is quite capable of raising his usage without hurting, or even sometimes helping, his efficiency. Steve Kerr didn’t have the same luck it would seem…

    What does Pippen’s defensive prowess have anything to do with his ability to score on his own? And why are you so quick to attribute Kerr’s increased efficiency to interaction effects when there are plenty of other viable explanations for it? A little confirmation bias, mayhaps?

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