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Friday, December 19, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Heat

Talk about a major showdown! The Knicks have taken both meetings against the Miami Heat this season, winning both match-ups by over 20 points each. And yet the way that the media has been covering today’s game, you would think that those two games just don’t matter at all. Well, the best way for the Knicks to show the Heat that those games do matter is by winning today on national television.

The Heat enter today’s game with thirteen straight victories. I don’t know about you all, but that fact actually gives me a little irrational confidence for this game. After all, odds are they’re going to have to lose some time, right? So why not today? With the Indiana Pacers playing the Chicago Bulls later today, a win could see the Knicks return to sole possession of the #2 seed in the Eastern Conference (interestingly enough, currently the #6 seed is the Brooklyn Nets. Imagine a Knicks/Nets first round series? That’d be a blast, but I’d rather see the Knicks avoid it and play the Celtics instead).

The improved play recently of JR Smith has been a bit of a revelation, as the Knicks really seem to live and die by whether they get strong guard play. They did so early in the season and they haven’t had it very often since, but if JR Smith is good again, then the Knicks can beat any team in the league.

Okay, the Knicks have the big stage, let’s see them show everyone that they belong here.

Let’s go Knicks!

235 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Heat

  1. nyklyt12

    Hope we are at least competitive today, i think the knicks were hurt the most from embarrassing the heat twice this year. They got full of themselves and stopped putting in the effort. I think that 18-5 team is still in there tjey just need a wakeup call.

  2. ephus

    I expect the Heat to come out with a lot of defensive intensity and front Melo in the ‘Melo post. Knicks need to have an answer. Swing the ball to the weak side, pass to Chandler in the opposite elbow or turn it into a pick and roll. I don’t want to see a repeat of last year’s playoffs.

  3. Frank O.

    Wade scares me today given our guards defensive play. Cold-blooded killer.
    Knicks need to hold their serve. A win here would do amazing things for team confidence and put hem on the right footing for this tough scheduled run.
    Tyson, Amare and Melo will need to bring their A game and assert their size and strength advantage.
    Expect Melon to match Lebron…but Wade

  4. mcliff05

    So pumped for this game! We can match up with the Heat. The only way I see this game getting out of hand is if we get frustrated with the refs and go ino self-destruct mode. I don’t know why, but I say Kidd finds his stroke in Miami today.

  5. Frank O.

    Frank O.:
    Wade scares me today given our guards defensive play. Cold-blooded killer.
    Knicks need to hold their serve. A win here would do amazing things for team confidence and put hem on the right footing for this tough scheduled run.
    Tyson, Amare and Melo will need to bring their A game and assert their size and strength advantage.
    Expect Melon to match Lebron…but Wade

    Melo

  6. AnonymousODG

    ephus:
    I expect the Heat to come out with a lot of defensive intensity and front Melo in the ‘Melo post.Knicks need to have an answer.Swing the ball to the weak side, pass to Chandler in the opposite elbow or turn it into a pick and roll.I don’t want to see a repeat of last year’s playoffs.

    Not much posting, but seems Melo has his shooting touch today. 3/4 shooting so far and they’ve all looked good.

  7. ruruland

    Frank O.:
    Brutal D on that Lebron cut.
    Smith watches as Amare naps

    You should mention the great hedge by Amare two possessions previous.

  8. lavor postell

    Frank O.:
    Brutal D on that Lebron cut.
    Smith watches as Amare naps

    If only we had a backup center available who could protect the rim and was once the Defensive Player of the Year….

  9. AnonymousODG

    Frank O.:
    Brutal D on that Lebron cut.
    Smith watches as Amare naps

    Melo was napping not Amare. Lebron cut right between the two of them. Amare had no chance of blocking that.

  10. Frank O.

    ruruland: You should mention the great hedge by Amare two possessions previous.

    The hedge was good, no doubt, but there’s more room for error 25 ft from the basket v the paint.
    Although the stakes are a third worse out there…

  11. Frank O.

    AnonymousODG: Melo was napping not Amare.Lebron cut right between the two of them.Amare had no chance of blocking that.

    The center has to have his head on a swivel.

  12. Frank O.

    The D overall is tough.
    Wish we had that last deuce from JR.
    If I remember correctly, Miami had several alley oops in the last two games…style points didn’t win those.

  13. AnonymousODG

    Frank O.: The center has to have his head on a swivel.

    Ok, if we’re talking about the same play, LBJ just cut right between Melo and JR Smith with a straight line to the basket. Amare in the meantime was almost on the other side of the basket and would have had to come in, underneath the basket and then up and over LBJ’s peak height jump?

    Either you’re overestimating Amare’s shot-blocking skills or you’ve got some blinders on Melo+Smith’s culpability there.

  14. mr.JayP

    er:
    whoa….were both teams out partying last night or what?

    im saying. i think they popped too many bottles last night

  15. lavor postell

    er:

    whoa….were both teams out partying last night or what?

    I tend to think that these Sunday matinees are kind of weird for players and it takes a little time for them to click.

  16. ruruland

    AnonymousODG: Ok, if we’re talking about the same play, LBJ just cut right between Melo and JR Smith with a straight line to the basket.Amare in the meantime was almost on the other side of the basket and would have had to come in, underneath the basket and then up and over LBJ’s peak height jump?

    Either you’re overestimating Amare’s shot-blocking skills or you’ve got some blinders on Melo+Smith’s culpability there.

    Well Smith was guarding Lebron on the play, the problem is himgetting a head of steam. You want Melo to body check a sprinting Lebron at 3-point line?

    Sometimes the greatest athlete to ever play organized sports makes an athletic play that if not initially slowed down can’t be stopped

  17. Frank O.

    AnonymousODG: Ok, if we’re talking about the same play, LBJ just cut right between Melo and JR Smith with a straight line to the basket.Amare in the meantime was almost on the other side of the basket and would have had to come in, underneath the basket and then up and over LBJ’s peak height jump?

    Either you’re overestimating Amare’s shot-blocking skills or you’ve got some blinders on Melo+Smith’s culpability there.

    No blinders. Smith was the on ball defender. Melo wasn’t and he is at a distinct disadvantage out there reacting.
    Stat wasn’t under the basket and sure he was on the other side of the paint, but it wasn’t like he wasn’t watching. He simply didn’t even react. Lebron started that run from 15 ft. At least try to alter the shot. And he is the center, who has the last line of D in the paint. Obviously this is pretty subjective and I don’t have the benefit of replay at The moment. I reserve the right to be wrong, but I feel comfortable with my description.

    Having said all that, Stat is having a big impact on the game. Hs hedge was good and I loved the block on Wade. It’s not like he can’t do these things.

  18. Frank O.

    ruruland: Well Smith was guarding Lebron on the play, the problem is himgetting a head of steam. You want Melo to body check a sprinting Lebron at 3-point line?

    Sometimes the greatest athlete to ever play organized sports makes an athletic play that if not initially slowed down can’t be stopped

    I agree with this. I just felt Amare could have at least made him alter his path. Make it tough. hell, even a hard foul.

  19. Frank O.

    ess-dog:
    Wow the ball really does move around when Melo’s out.

    I don’t think it’s good or bad. Melo in recent games has been the Knicks best passer. Meanwhile, he’s been punishing Miami. That first quarter would have been pretty bad without his 17.

  20. lavor postell

    ess-dog:

    Wow the ball really does move around when Melo’s out.

    Yeah they didn’t miss any wide open threes off of ball movement initiated by Melo in the first quarter at all

  21. ruruland

    lavor postell: Yeah they didn’t miss any wide open threes off of ball movement initiated by Melo in the first quarter at all

    It’s amazing how influenced the supposed greatest fans in he world are by the final result.

  22. Frank O.

    Would so rather see Melo take a shot in the paint rather than Shump from the corner.

  23. ruruland

    mr.JayP:
    The ball needs to move period. The knicks need to create with their ball movement.

    You don’t create with ball movement. Ball movement is a result.

  24. AnonymousODG

    ruruland: Well Smith was guarding Lebron on the play, the problem is himgetting a head of steam. You want Melo to body check a sprinting Lebron at 3-point line?

    Sometimes the greatest athlete to ever play organized sports makes an athletic play that if not initially slowed down can’t be stopped

    That’s pretty much exactly my point.

  25. mr.JayP

    ruruland: You don’t create with ball movement. Ball movement is a result.

    oh? Open shots arent created because of ball movement?

  26. Frank O.

    Knicks doing a much better job on Lebron in the 2nd. He’s working really hard for shots.
    Reward that hustle from Chandler!

  27. AnonymousODG

    Frank O.: No blinders. Smith was the on ball defender. Melo wasn’t and he is at a distinct disadvantage out there reacting.
    Stat wasn’t under the basket and sure he was on the other side of the paint, but it wasn’t like he wasn’t watching. He simply didn’t even react. Lebron started that run from 15 ft. At least try to alter the shot. And he is the center, who has the last line of D in the paint. Obviously this is pretty subjective and I don’t have the benefit of replay at The moment. I reserve the right to be wrong, but I feel comfortable with my description.

    Having said all that, Stat is having a big impact on the game. Hs hedge was good and I loved the block on Wade. It’s not like he can’t do these things.

    Smith was actually guarding the other guy who pushed the ball up the court and ran to our corner who passed it back out to Lebron. True, Smith may have been helplessly caught in limbo between two players but that’s also his fault for letting them push the ball up so far and so quickly. It was thus Melo’s responsibility to help pick up Lebron as JR Smith got caught up in between the two (Melo was’t even defending anybody at that point).

    Melo was the one who didn’t react. STAT is not going to be able to make any defensive play against Lebron when Lebron was completely undeterred, going at fullspeed and Amare’s out of position for a legitimate block opportunity. At best, he’d have fouled by the time LBJ made the shot he wanted and given him a chance for a 3 pt play.

    Of all the times to dissect STAT’s defensive shortcomings, that was not one of those times.

  28. ruruland

    mr.JayP:
    shump really does make pretty good plays. glad we didnt trade him

    He’s playing great. When his finishing comes hell be an impact player that you can’t take off the court.

  29. Frank O.

    AnonymousODG: Smith was actually guarding the other guy who pushed the ball up the court and ran to our corner who passed it back out to Lebron.True, Smith may have been helplessly caught in limbo between two players but that’s also his fault for letting them push the ball up so far and so quickly.It was thus Melo’s responsibility to help pick up Lebron as JR Smith got caught up in between the two (Melo was’t even defending anybody at that point).

    Melo was the one who didn’t react.STAT is not going to be able to make any defensive play against Lebron when Lebron was completely undeterred, going at fullspeed and Amare’s out of position for a legitimate block opportunity.At best, he’d have fouled by the time LBJ made the shot he wanted and given him a chance for a 3 pt play.

    Of all the times to dissect STAT’s defensive shortcomings, that was not one of those times.

    Respectfully disagree.

  30. lavor postell

    mr.JayP:

    oh? Open shots arent created because of ball movement?

    Ball movement starts when a defense is forced to react to an individual player’s movement with or without the ball and that’s when you get open shots.

    People can say what they will about Felton, but having a point guard that is great at splitting the hedge off of the pick is invaluable when you a play a team who hedges as hard as Miami.

  31. ruruland

    AnonymousODG: Smith was actually guarding the other guy who pushed the ball up the court and ran to our corner who passed it back out to Lebron.True, Smith may have been helplessly caught in limbo between two players but that’s also his fault for letting them push the ball up so far and so quickly.It was thus Melo’s responsibility to help pick up Lebron as JR Smith got caught up in between the two (Melo was’t even defending anybody at that point).

    Melo was the one who didn’t react.STAT is not going to be able to make any defensive play against Lebron when Lebron was completely undeterred, going at fullspeed and Amare’s out of position for a legitimate block opportunity.At best, he’d have fouled by the time LBJ made the shot he wanted and given him a chance for a 3 pt play.

    Of all the times to dissect STAT’s defensive shortcomings, that was not one of those times.

    Dude, Smith was guarding Lebron all the way there. His responsibility,

  32. mr.JayP

    ruruland: He’s playing great. When his finishing comes hell be an impact player that you can’t take off the court.

    definitely. i think he’s gonna be a good piece for us towards the end of the season.

  33. Frank O.

    ruruland: He’s playing great. When his finishing comes hell be an impact player that you can’t take off the court.

    Matter of time

  34. AnonymousODG

    ruruland: Dude, Smith was guarding Lebron all the way there. His responsibility,

    It was transition, Smith can’t leave the other Heat guy (Wade?) that was leading the fastbreak alone???? That was why Smith was caught flatfooted between the two of them.

    But like you said, by the time Lebron had his fullspeed (even before he caught the ball), nobody was really in a position to stop him. My point is, that’s more Smith’s fault for letting Wade push the ball up so hard and so fast and Melo’s fault for not picking up Lebron immediately when Smith was baited into the corner onto the other dude.

  35. ruruland

    Frank O.:
    Great play. Shump got picked off on the back side.

    Lebron and Wade get 5-6 a game most nights. One little mistake is all it takes.

  36. ruruland

    AnonymousODG: It was transition, Smith can’t leave the other Heat guy (Wade?) that was leading the fastbreak alone????That was why Smith was caught flatfooted between the two of them.

    But like you said, by the time Lebron had his fullspeed (even before he caught the ball), nobody was really in a position to stop him.My point is, that’s more Smith’s fault for letting Wade push the ball up so hard and so fast and Melo’s fault for not picking up Lebron immediately when Smith was baited into the corner onto the other dude.

    Yes, you’re right.

  37. hegotgame

    Man, we’re playing pretty good. J.Kidd coming alive has been so huge, just helps make the game easier for everybody else. But I love the effort all round.

    Great Melo passes, beastmode offense.
    Shump getting into the groove, deflecting balls, gettin steals and bothering shooters.
    Non-_Zombie JKidd
    Very solid team D.

    Now can we ramp it up steadily through the 2nd half and prove that come playoffs we’ll be aiite? I think/hope we can. Amare and JR showd small flashes of having major impact this game, we’ll need that to win.

  38. ruruland

    Nick C.:
    Meanwhile the Knicks up 14 at the half.

    Obviously Miami will likely make a big run. But the Knicks aren’t beating the Heat because of 3-point shooting 6-16.

  39. ess-dog

    ruruland: I don’t know what you’re referencing

    Just how a neutral observation that could even slightly be construed as a diss to Lord Melo brings out the Melo Gestapo in about .5 seconds on this board.

  40. Frank O.

    ruruland: Obviously Miami will likely make a big run. But the Knicks aren’t beating the Heat because of 3-point shooting 6-16.

    No. The Knicks are winning on the defensive end, and Melo has been incredibly efficient.

  41. jon abbey

    ruruland:
    Surprised more folks haven’t dropped in today. Wait, no I’m not.

    actually a really active game thread considering it’s an early game.

    amazing second quarter, NY is obviously a whole different team when Kidd can make 4 3s in a half instead of 4 3s per month.

  42. er

    ess-dog: Just how a neutral observation that could even slightly be construed as a diss to Lord Melo brings out the Melo Gestapo in about .5 seconds on this board.

    please stop, we get it

  43. lavor postell

    jon abbey:

    actually a really active game thread considering it’s an early game.

    amazing second quarter, NY is obviously a whole different team when Kidd can make 4 3s in a half instead of 4 3s per month.

    I really enjoyed Kidd’s interview at the half where he was asked what was different about his shot. He mentioned that he realized “he wasn’t staying with his shot”. I think it’s just a way of saying he needed to shoot it with confidence and follow through.

  44. lavor postell

    White’s presence on the floor is destroying the offense. Why the fuck is he in the NBA let alone starting against the Miami Heat?

  45. mr.JayP

    he can give someone else rest. so i dont mind it. just gotta watch the fouls. looks like we starting the 3rd just like the 1st

  46. hegotgame

    OMG. The defense in the last 3mins has been beautiful to watch. Just great effort all round. Huge 3 by JR too.

    #leggo

  47. lavor postell

    Can somebody do a study on JR Smith’s 3 point percentage off catch and shoots where Kidd passes him the ball?

  48. Frank O.

    Two great defensive holds in a row.
    Forcing a Chalmers three and the Wade strip, leads to a five point turnaround

  49. ruruland

    Let’s remember something. The Knicks half-court defense against Miami has been very good dating back to the Melo trade. It’s the poor offense that’s been the problem

  50. ess-dog

    er: please stop, we get it

    Lol, it’s one thing to be Melo’s lackey like ruru, but why be the lackey’s lackey?

  51. AnonymousODG

    As impressive as the Knick’s defense is, when the Heat dials up the intensity it’s nothing short of suffocating…

  52. Frank O.

    Well, if they are going to double Melo that far out almost every time, Stat should feast.
    Good adjustment, nice passing from Melo

  53. Douglas

    ess-dog: Just how a neutral observation that could even slightly be construed as a diss to Lord Melo brings out the Melo Gestapo in about .5 seconds on this board.

    First they came for the Melo haters, but I did not speak out because I was not a Melo hater…

  54. er

    ess-dog: Lol, it’s one thing to be Melo’s lackey like ruru, but why be the lackey’s lackey?

    lol you must really be a loser….im nobodys lackey but cool what ever makes you happy

  55. CaptainB

    That Battier 3 was Felton’s fault. When will this team stop bitching so much to the refs.

  56. hegotgame

    Beautiful, a shotclock violation is one of the best signs of defensive intensity. Feels good being able to bother the heat like this. That was a really silly jumper by melo, he couldve taken some more time maybe even gone to the rack while they were still thinking. Bron def fouled Tyson on that last block too, held him down by the shoulder while he swatted with the left

  57. CaptainB

    Team’s achilles heel is complaining to the damn refs all the time. Poor effort when things started to fall apart blew this.

  58. lavor postell

    In all fairness the Knicks are getting mauled on the way to the hoop and nothing is getting called in this second half. It’s hard to not get frustrated.

  59. CaptainB

    hegotgame:
    Beautiful, a shotclock violation is one of the best signs of defensive intensity. Feels good being able to bother the heat like this. That was a really silly jumper by melo, he couldve taken some more time maybe even gone to the rack while they were still thinking. Bron def fouled Tyson on that last block too, held him down by the shoulder while he swatted with the left

    It doesnt matter that they didnt call the foul. It matters that our best rebounder and shot blocker sat on the floor complaining.

  60. Nick C.

    Wow LeBron can body check Tyson and get credited for a block then push off to get an offensive rebound and put back withou a whistle.

  61. Thomas B.

    No matter how this ends, I do hope this is the last we see of The James White project.

  62. hegotgame

    JRRR…. We really didnt need JR to shoot that 3… At all great if he makes it but we coulda worked for a better shot… It just wrecked the little momentum we had and inside 2mins thats like a dagger…

  63. AnonymousODG

    We missed too many open shots. And we shouldn’t have taken out STAT so early. Not with 8 mins left to play.

  64. CaptainB

    Nick C.:
    Wow LeBron can body check Tyson and get credited for a block then push off to get an offensive rebound and put back withou a whistle.

    Its always been and going to be that way. You have to play through it.

    Can someone show JR that stat about him shooting 3s off the dribble?

  65. Will the Thrill

    JR showing EXACTLY why no coach should trust him in crunch time (unless there is less than 5 seconds to throw up hail mary game winner). He is just too bone headed to have him out there.

  66. AnonymousODG

    mr.JayP:
    that was so fucking upsetting

    i would rather watch them get blown out. fuck

    At the same time, I expected the Heat to blow us out by 20+ coming into this game. So, it was a spirited game and honestly, it could have gone either way with just one extra shot going down, one foul call being made by the bungling refs, one terrible turnover not being made…

    But JR Smith being 3/14 from the 3 pt arc is not helping matters. And I know I just pointed this out… but benching Amare with 8 mins to go. That’s just inconceivable.

  67. er

    mr.JayP:
    that was so fucking upsetting

    i would rather watch them get blown out. fuck

    yep…..the indiana game was like, oh well f*ck it we got killed. But in this one i was ready to talk shit to heat fans after the 1st half lol. Oh well, hopefully we can beat okc

  68. flossy

    If I’m Amar’e Stoudemire, I’m pissed right now. Dude’s a 6x All Star and he plays 21 minutes (good minutes!) against the Heat and gets benched down the stretch so that the likes of JR freakin’ Smith can cough the ball up and brick the lead away? Damn.

  69. Thomas B.

    Robtachi:
    Wow, could J.R. have done ANY worse in bungling those last few possessions?

    I can’t imagine how. Where was Shumpert in the second half?

  70. mr.JayP

    if the knicks arent pissed off and go on a 10+ game win streak or something.

    Prepare for a 1st round knock out. this is the type of game that everyone should be pissed about.

  71. er

    This game was lost on about five possessions. First birdman was a huuuuge x factor. You have the lebron influenced Jr layup in the first, the battier and lebron 3s in the third and the lebron hustle plays

  72. Will the Thrill

    I expect Amar’e to start to lash out against Woodson pretty soon, and it’s not going to end well for the Knicks (not that it’s Amar’e’s fault).

  73. er

    mr.JayP:
    if the knicks arent pissed off and go on a 10+ game win streak or something.

    Prepare for a 1st round knock out. this is the type of game that everyone should be pissed about.

    You think they will lose in the first round because of this game? Im honestly asking not to be funny or anything

  74. ruruland

    Will the Thrill: I expect Amar’e to start to lash out against Woodson pretty soon, and it’s not going to end well for the Knicks (not that it’s Amar’e’s fault).

    Amar’e should be playing more. He was very good on both ends today and could have guarded Battier.

  75. ruruland

    flossy: If I’m Amar’e Stoudemire, I’m pissed right now. Dude’s a 6x All Star and he plays 21 minutes (good minutes!) against the Heat and gets benched down the stretch so that the likes of JR freakin’ Smith can cough the ball up and brick the lead away? Damn.

    yeah, Woodson will figure it out. Knicks won’t beat Miami with the offense going through JR.

  76. Thomas B.

    er:
    This game was lost on about five possessions. First birdman was a huuuuge x factor. You have the lebron influenced Jr layup in the first, the battier and lebron 3s in the third and the lebron hustle plays

    Yeah. Anderson is going to be huge for them.

  77. mr.JayP

    er: You think they will lose in the first round because of this game? Im honestly asking not to be funny or anything

    if you re-read what i wrote, if the knicks dont react to this game and play with fire, or the same type of fire as they did in this game. then i honestly dont expect them to go far

  78. mcliff05

    You can’t have it both ways with JR. He hits so many big shots that you have to keep him on the floor. Amare had a great game but in those final possessions where wade and Lebrun are getting the Knicks to switch into favorable matchups stat is not who I want guarding them one-on-one.

    I’m disappointed obviously but we proved again that despite the 20 games we still have to be reckoned with come May.

  79. Thomas B.

    27% from three. That really was the issue. Shumpert 0-3. JR 3-14. Novak 0-3. Clearly there is something about the Miami defense that lets us get up plenty of shots from deep. We just have to knock them down.

    I say lock Shumpert and Novak in the gym and don’t let either of them leave until they can hit 65% from deep during shooting drills.

  80. jon abbey

    sorry to continue with the pessimism, but they’re going to likely lose in the first round because they match up badly against most of the potential opponents, not because of anything in their Miami games.

    and nice effort today for the bulk of the game, but the bottom line is still that they’re 11-9 at home in their last 20.

  81. ruruland

    mcliff05: You can’t have it both ways with JR. He hits so many big shots that you have to keep him on the floor. Amare had a great game but in those final possessions where wade and Lebrun are getting the Knicks to switch into favorable matchups stat is not who I want guarding them one-on-one. I’m disappointed obviously but we proved again that despite the 20 games we still have to be reckoned with come May.

    Good point on the switching.

    JR is great off the ball. He’s one of the worst players in the NBA off the dribble. Don’t want the offense to run through him.

  82. ruruland

    Thomas B.: 27% from three. That really was the issue. Shumpert 0-3. JR 3-14. Novak 0-3. Clearly there is something about the Miami defense that lets us get up plenty of shots from deep. We just have to knock them down.I say lock Shumpert and Novak in the gym and don’t let either of them leave until they can hit 65% from deep during shooting drills.

    How many teams lead Miami for 42 minutes when they are outshot by a large margin from 3?

  83. BigBlueAL

    The anger/frustration of this loss is still fresh so this might be exaggerating a bit but watching that 4th quarter its painfully obvious that the Heat’s Big 3 are just so much better than whoever are the Knicks Big 3 (Melo and Chandler? and JR/Felton???) that honestly cant see how in the world the Knicks beat the Heat 4 out of 7 in a playoff series.

    Down the stretch he Heat have LBJ/Wade/Bosh and guys like Battier and Allen to pass out to, the Knicks have Melo and freaking JR/Felton. I would include Amar’e since he can still score at will but since he never plays its a moot point. The Heat are just a more talented, better coached team plain and simple. Sucks to say and admit lol.

    Was so giddy during half-time but that 2nd half has really just depressed the crap out of me lol. Ive always had a hard time admitting a team was better than the Knicks (hell to this day I still think the 93 Knicks were better than the Bulls and that the 97 Knicks couldve beaten the Bulls lol plus never thought the Pacers/Heat were better back then) but yeah the Heat are way better which we all knew obviously. Just still hoped that matchup wise maybe we still had a chance in a playoff series but assuming the Heat are healthy really dunno how in the world the Knicks win more than a game vs the Heat in the playoffs especially if its in the conf finals where everything is at stake and the Heat will be full-throttle for every second of every game.

    On a side note, hopefully the Knicks can bounce back quickly tomorrow in Cleveland, Irving being out would be huge. Knicks showed glimpses of their early season form today in the 1st half so at least we know its still there but Woodson really has to settle on a good starting lineup and rotation ASAP. His coaching decisions are more worrisome for me than anything else right now.

  84. er

    jon abbey:
    sorry to continue with the pessimism, but they’re going to likely lose in the first round because they match up badly against most of the potential opponents, not because of anything in their Miami games.

    and nice effort today for the bulk of the game, but the bottom line is still that they’re 11-9 at home in their last 20.

    wow, they only match up badly with the bulls. They wont play the pacers or the heat in the first round. Who are these other bad matchups?

  85. AnonymousODG

    mcliff05:
    You can’t have it both ways with JR. He hits so many big shots that you have to keep him on the floor. Amare had a great game but in those final possessions where wade and Lebrun are getting the Knicks to switch into favorable matchups stat is not who I want guarding them one-on-one.

    I’m disappointed obviously but we proved again that despite the 20 games we still have to be reckoned with come May.

    I recall STAT doing quite well. In fact, on the last switch he forced a long range jumper from Lebron that swung the momentum back in our favor. And I don’t recall Wade abusing STAT at all throughout the entire game.

  86. er

    .His coaching decisions are more worrisome for me than anything else right now.

    this here is the worst part

  87. pstynes

    I don’t understand why constantly towards the end of the games the Knicks are so easily ceding a Melo-deny, and forcing themselves to run through alternative players for multiple possessions. Look at Kidd’s desperation drive on Battier, Felton dribbling the ball off his leg, JR’s early shotclock 3 off the dribble – I’m almost positive Melo didn’t touch the ball on any of those possessions. If he’s too gassed to fight off someone denying him, or the guards aren’t comfortable with the entry pass, why not just have him take the ball up the damn floor? They got multiple buckets off of Melo initiating a pick and roll anyway, I just don’t understand how when the game is on the line the ball isn’t at least in Melo’s hands every possession. At the Sloan conference they mentioned players off a pass from Melo have either one of or the highest (I forget the specifics) EFG% in the league this season – why don’t they use that more, especially during crucial 4th quarter possessions? Especially with how the 4/5 Carmelo/STAT pick and roll ate up the eat in the middle of the game.

  88. Will the Thrill

    Pretty sure Novak would be done in 5 minutes. Shumpert on the other hand, would be a couple weeks.

    Thomas B.: I say lock Shumpert and Novak in the gym and don’t let either of them leave until they can hit 65% from deep during shooting drills.

  89. mr.JayP

    BigBlueAL:
    but Woodson really has to settle on a good starting lineup and rotation ASAP.His coaching decisions are more worrisome for me than anything else right now.

    that right there is the issue. i dont think woodson is the coach that can take this team to the finals.

    imagine if you had a coach like Doc lead a team like the knicks.

  90. nicos

    mcliff05:
    You can’t have it both ways with JR. He hits so many big shots that you have to keep him on the floor. Amare had a great game but in those final possessions where wade and Lebrun are getting the Knicks to switch into favorable matchups stat is not who I want guarding them one-on-one.

    I’m disappointed obviously but we proved again that despite the 20 games we still have to be reckoned with come May.

    Amar’e actually did a pretty good job when switched on James today, not that you’d want to see a steady diet of it. And I think going big really forces Miami to make some tough decisions on the defensive end- I think you’re better off forcing them to put Haslem or Anderson (who did play well) in the game than letting them play small.

  91. BigBlueAL

    Also wanna say that Amar’e today on D I thought was great. Only problems were early in the 4th when he was the only big on the floor and the Heat were getting offensive rebs left and right but I thought Amar’e was great defensively today. I would assume we all agree that really hope this is the last we see of White starting or playing ever again (except for garbage time). Finally would like to add that while Shump is looking better and better defensively his offense has gotten so bad its at Mardy Collins level lol.

  92. mcliff05

    ruruland: Good point on the switching.

    JR is great off the ball. He’s one of the worst players in the NBA off the dribble. Don’t want the offense to run through him.

    Agreed. His decision making is a liability for important late game possessions

  93. Thomas B.

    ruruland: How many teams lead Miami for 42 minutes when they are outshot by a large margin from 3?

    We shot well from three in the last two wins. Not sure if you noticed that. We lost by six and shot well below average from three. Had we shot anything even approaching our average, we score enough to win.

  94. jon abbey

    er: wow, they only match up badly with the bulls. They wont play the pacers or the heat in the first round. Who are these other bad matchups?

    I think that NY’s weaknesses will be even more evident when playing the same team for an entire series. I will believe they can beat a team with Pierce and Garnett when I actually see it, and I don’t think they match up well with Brooklyn. even the most favorable matchup on paper, Atlanta, scares me.

  95. nicos

    A couple of points- 1. Start Novak or bench him- defensively he needs to be playing with Chandler at all times and offensively, even if he never gets a shot he’ll create more space for Melo and perhaps more importantly, more space for the high pnr.
    2. Shump is going to have to step it up if the Knicks are going to have any chance of beating the Heat in the playoffs.. If he could just make a corner jumper or two and/or finish regularly at the rim, his ballhandling and playmaking ability could be huge against the Heat’s constant scrambling/rotating. While he’s certainly not a pure point guard he’s looked sooo much better passing the ball this year as opposed to last- his court vision/handle is very, very good for a two. The Heat can get away with blitzing both Melo and Felton and neither Kidd nor JR is an effectively safety valve- they’ll do little else but hit threes. Shump has the potential to really attack the defense. Unfortunately, at this point it’s still purely just potential and the odds of him making that jump this year seem slim.
    3. Late in games I’d consider subbing Amar’e for Chandler in offense/defense situations. The Melo/Amar’e pnr might be the Knicks’ best play right now- down 4 with the ball and 30 seconds left you have to give yourself the best chance to score and Amar’e’s ability to find space and get high quality looks trumps Chandler’s offensive rebounding ability.

  96. ruruland

    pstynes: I don’t understand why constantly towards the end of the games the Knicks are so easily ceding a Melo-deny, and forcing themselves to run through alternative players for multiple possessions. Look at Kidd’s desperation drive on Battier, Felton dribbling the ball off his leg, JR’s early shotclock 3 off the dribble – I’m almost positive Melo didn’t touch the ball on any of those possessions. If he’s too gassed to fight off someone denying him, or the guards aren’t comfortable with the entry pass, why not just have him take the ball up the damn floor? They got multiple buckets off of Melo initiating a pick and roll anyway, I just don’t understand how when the game is on the line the ball isn’t at least in Melo’s hands every possession. At the Sloan conference they mentioned players off a pass from Melo have either one of or the highest (I forget the specifics) EFG% in the league this season – why don’t they use that more, especially during crucial 4th quarter possessions? Especially with how the 4/5 Carmelo/STAT pick and roll ate up the eat in the middle of the game.

    Melo leads the league the last 3 years in efg% of his passes.

    Melo in high pnr is far and away the Knicks best play on offense. Running a double pick and roll with Amar’e and Chandler means you can’t blitz it.

    Amar’e is the Knicks third best player, he needs to be the guy that forces the Heat to play big, where they’re not as good.

    I’m with Nicos. Amar’e is the key to beating Miami. I think/hope Woodson sees it.

  97. nicos

    I’d add it would also be nice to get Amar’e some more minutes with Felton- neither Prigs nor Kidd can run the pnr at all and JR isn’t a whole lot better. I might sub Kidd for Felton a little earlier and then give Felton a few minutes with the second unit.

  98. Mr.RIGHT

    You mean to tell me that J.R. Smith & Raymond Felton as opposed to having Jeremy Win & Jamal Crawford (and/or a Tony Allen type) is superior???

    …I think NOT!!!!!

  99. max fisher-cohen

    ruruland: How many teams lead Miami for 42 minutes when they are outshot by a large margin from 3?

    Every team is outshot by Miami from 3. They have 5 guys over 40% from there, so you really could have shortened this to “how many teams lead Miami for 42 minutes?” The answer? Not many, but Miami coasts. They didn’t change the defense on Melo till the 4th, and what do you know, the lead evaporates. I honestly wonder if that was a choice based on Woodson’s stubbornness — don’t force him to think too hard on the fronting & ball denial, and that way he won’t adapt in the playoffs (again).

    BigBlueAL:
    The anger/frustration of this loss is still fresh so this might be exaggerating a bit but watching that 4th quarter its painfully obvious that the Heat’s Big 3 are just so much better than whoever are the Knicks Big 3

    Bosh was bad tonight, worse than STAT. take out Melo and James, and I think NY is the better team. The heat’s shooting just becomes so much more valuable due to LBJ’s abiility to create & distribute.

    er: wow, they only match up badly with the bulls. They wont play the pacers or the heat in the first round. Who are these other bad matchups?

    This game was lost on about five possessions. First birdman was a huuuuge x factor. You have the lebron influenced Jr layup in the first, the battier and lebron 3s in the third and the lebron hustle plays

    NYK record vs. potential rnd 1 matchups:

    ATL: 1-0, +2.0
    BOS: 1-1, -1.5
    BKN: 2-2, +1.7
    CHI: 0-3, -6.4
    IND: 1-2, -9.0

    Total: 5-8, -13.2

    And again, the game was decided in the 4th when MIA began denying Melo the ball, like they did all playoffs last year.

  100. BigBlueAL

    “take out Melo and James, and I think NY is the better team.”

    I used to think this way which is what always gave me faith the Knicks could compete with them in a playoff series this year but is it really true?? Wade is better than any other player the Knicks have by a mile. Chandler is better than any big on the Heat but for as efficient as he is his impact on the offensive end is pretty minimal most nights. Bosh and Amar’e you can argue is a wash but the fact is Amar’e plays 22 mins/g while Bosh plays 34, thats a HUGE difference.

    As you mentioned above the Heat’s 3pt shooting is great plus their 3pt shooters can actually play both ends of the court. Birdman seems to have given them a big lift off the bench now too. The Heat have an extra gear they can turn on in the 4th quarter on both ends of the court the Knicks cant match. I mean shit look at the 2nd half, they outscored the Knicks 54-34 in MSG to win the game. You can look at the 1st half for some hope and trust me I was excited at the half but lets face it the only reason the score was what it was at the half was due to Kidd’s crazy 3pt shooting.

    I still believe as long as the Knicks dont fall out of a 2/3 seed they should get out of the 1st round fairly easily and I would hope they can beat the Pacers/Bulls in the 2nd round but it will be a dog fight. Have very little hope of winning more than 1 game vs the Heat but I would still love a shot at them in the conf finals and will find a way to convince myself going into that series that the Knicks would have a shot at somehow pulling out an upset lol.

  101. BigBlueAL

    Gotta love JR:

    An ya mom after! RT @MoBitchesENT: You blew the game bro RT @TheRealJRSmith: So anyway off to Cleveland!

  102. hoolahoop

    Will the Thrill:
    I expect Amar’e to start to lash out against Woodson pretty soon, and it’s not going to end well for the Knicks (not that it’s Amar’e’s fault).

    I have a feeling that Amare already did lash out against Woodson – in private.
    I don’t know if it’s been said before, but it seems to me that Woodson doesn’t like Amare. He doesn’t give him minutes, he ignores Amare when he comes off the floor after playing well, he uses him as a whipping post in public during games, and maybe most telling of all, in interviews, Woodson who’s quick to gush praise for everyone on the team, even Ronnie Brewer, speaks of Amare in a very tempered way.
    Also, although Amare has been playing very well, he doesn’t seem to have the confidence swagger he used to have, that may be from lack of support from the coach. All speculation on my part, but that’s the way it looks to me.
    Amare should be getting more minutes, especially down the stretch.
    I think Amare may have ripped into him, and there’s a chill in the air.

  103. d-mar

    “You can look at the 1st half for some hope and trust me I was excited at the half but lets face it the only reason the score was what it was at the half was due to Kidd’s crazy 3pt shooting.”

    The Knicks were 30% from downtown in the 1st half (I happened to look up at the scoreboard at halftime) so they weren’t really shooting lights out. It’s just that the Heat’s pattern of winning games is maddeningly predictable – spot the other team a decent lead in the 1st half, begin to clamp down in the 3rd quarter, play insane defense in the 4th quarter and win going away. They do it to every team in the NBA.

  104. max fisher-cohen

    I’ll agree with the 2/3 seed thing. Assuming NY is the home team and both teams are healthy, I’d put their odds vs the above teams somewhere around this:

    Milwaukee: 75%
    Boston: 65%
    Atlanta: 60%
    Brooklyn: 60%
    Chicago: 35% (drops a lot if Rose is healthy and playing well)

    It would take a big fall in the standings by either Indy or NY for that to be a first round matchup, but vs. Indy with home court, I’d put the knicks’ odds around 30%.

    It’s the second round, where NY is likely to be the road team and highly likely to be playing Miami, Chicago or Indiana, where it’s a lot harder for me to see them win.

  105. BigBlueAL

    max fisher-cohen:
    I’ll agree with the 2/3 seed thing. Assuming NY is the home team and both teams are healthy, I’d put their odds vs the above teams somewhere around this:

    Milwaukee: 75%
    Boston: 65%
    Atlanta: 60%
    Brooklyn: 60%
    Chicago: 35% (drops a lot if Rose is healthy and playing well)

    It would take a big fall in the standings by either Indy or NY for that to be a first round matchup, but vs. Indy with home court, I’d put the knicks’ odds around 30%.

    It’s the second round, where NY is likely to be the road team and highly likely to be playing Miami, Chicago or Indiana, where it’s a lot harder for me to see them win.

    Dont see the Bulls having a better record than the Knicks. Their remaining schedule isnt much easier than what the Knicks have and at this point I would be shocked if Rose comes back and has a great enough instant impact for them to go on some type of great winning streak before the regular season ends to vault up in the standings. Hopefully they play good enough to finish above 6th though lol.

    At this point due to the schedule Ive come to grips with the fact that the Pacers will most likely finish 2nd in the East so again Im just hoping to finish 3rd which I would be shocked if they drop below that.

  106. BigBlueAL

    d-mar:
    “You can look at the 1st half for some hope and trust me I was excited at the half but lets face it the only reason the score was what it was at the half was due to Kidd’s crazy 3pt shooting.”

    The Knicks were 30% from downtown in the 1st half (I happened to look up at the scoreboard at halftime) so they weren’t really shooting lights out. It’s just that the Heat’s pattern of winning games is maddeningly predictable – spot the other team a decent lead in the 1st half, begin to clamp down in the 3rd quarter, play insane defense in the 4th quarter and win going away. They do it to every team in the NBA.

    The Knicks certainly played well enough to lead at the half even w/o great overall 3pt shooting but Kidd’s outburst is what gave them such a big lead. The Heat flat out dominated the entire 2nd half, the Knicks had a hot stretch in the 2nd quarter which made it seem like they dominated the 1st half imo.

  107. thezentist

    Felton has caused the Knicks more wins due to his constant arguing with refs . What gives? STOP COMPLAING, JUST PLAY!!!! And that goes for pretty much all of the Knicks , they were doing so well.

  108. jon abbey

    thezentist:
    Felton has caused the Knicks more wins due to his constant arguing with refs . What gives? STOP COMPLAING, JUST PLAY!!!! And that goes for pretty much all of the Knicks , they were doing so well.

    I seriously blame Sheed for this, he is well known for it and the complaining hasn’t slowed down since he started playing (or since he stopped).

  109. thezentist

    jon abbey: I seriously blame Sheed for this, he is well known for it and the complaining hasn’t slowed down since he started playing (or since he stopped).

    The team should really consider giving fines to these guys, they are suppose to play both offense and defense not lobby refs for fouls so frustrating paying good money to watch these ” cry babies”

  110. maxwell_3g

    Just finished watching the game on dvr. my thoughts..
    1) too many turnovers. JR played great, but you cant let lebron jump the passing lanes
    2) way too much complainiong about the refs (even though im still pissed about the lebron “block” on chandler). JVG is absolutely right. our complaing kills our defnesive transition. cost us at least 6 points today
    3) for some odd reason the switching at all costs strategy seems to work OK against the heat, while it is an utter failure against all other opponents. it makes me think that maybe our problems are mental cocentration and effort on defense in general, and not all on woody’s stupid strategy

  111. ruruland

    hoolahoop: I have a feeling that Amare already did lash out against Woodson – in private.I don’t know if it’s been said before, but it seems to me that Woodson doesn’t like Amare. He doesn’t give him minutes, he ignores Amare when he comes off the floor after playing well, he uses him as a whipping post in public during games, and maybe most telling of all, in interviews, Woodson who’s quick to gush praise for everyone on the team, even Ronnie Brewer, speaks of Amare in a very tempered way.Also, although Amare has been playing very well, he doesn’t seem to have the confidence swagger he used to have, that may be from lack of support from the coach. All speculation on my part, but that’s the way it looks to me.Amare should be getting more minutes, especially down the stretch.I think Amare may have ripped into him, and there’s a chill in the air.

    IDK, he also goes out of his way to talk about his defense.

    See, what’s so interesting to me about Amar’e is that he’s capable of playing really good defense. He had some excellent hedges, was strong in isolation, took a charge on a double team, trapped hard, was strong in help.

    You have to have that guy on the court because Miami has no answer for him on offense.

    Every NBA game against two good teams basically comes down to three things: who is the aggressor, whose open shots go in, and who dictates the tempo/style/lineups

    Make Miami play their least effective lineup by running offense through Amar’e.

  112. pstynes

    jon abbey: I seriously blame Sheed for this, he is well known for it and the complaining hasn’t slowed down since he started playing (or since he stopped).

    As much as Sheed’s rep as a malcontent is justified by his past actions, the responsibility for players griping to the refs falls squarely on Woodson’s shoulders. The attitude for the team stems from the coach’s leadership abilities. For him to constantly let players get away with yelling at refs, and for the multiple complete team meltdowns (Indiana and Chicago come to mind) to have occurred with the season barely past its halfway point, are two clear indications of Woodson’s faults as a coach. It’s clear the veterans enjoy playing for Woodson, and he certainly deserves some credit for Melo’s elevation and the reinvention of the Knicks offense, but his in-game coaching abilities, both with regards to the psyche of the team (attitude/morale) and the necessary strategic adjustments teams have to make, are lacking in a big way. And to be honest, that is what will ultimately lead to a playoff exit assuming Lebron doesn’t do it first.

    While this is most definitely looking back on these coaches with rose-colored glasses, either Van Gundy brother or Pat Riley take this team to 6 or 7 against the Heat, whatever round that happens to be.

  113. maxwell_3g

    nicos:
    A couple of points- 1. Start Novak or bench him- defensively he needs to be playing with Chandler at all times and offensively, even if he never gets a shot he’ll create more space for Melo and perhaps more importantly, more space for the high pnr.
    2.Shump is going to have to step it up if the Knicks are going to have any chance of beating the Heat in the playoffs..If he could just make a corner jumper or two and/or finish regularly at the rim, his ballhandling and playmaking ability could be huge against the Heat’s constant scrambling/rotating.While he’s certainly not a pure point guard he’s looked sooo much better passing the ball this year as opposed to last- his court vision/handle is very, very good for a two.The Heat can get away with blitzing both Melo and Felton and neither Kidd nor JR is an effectively safety valve- they’ll do little else but hit threes.Shump has the potential to really attack the defense.Unfortunately, at this point it’s still purely just potential and the odds of him making that jump this year seem slim.
    3. Late in games I’d consider subbing Amar’e for Chandler in offense/defense situations.The Melo/Amar’e pnr might be the Knicks’ best play right now- down 4 with the ball and 30 seconds left you have to give yourself the best chance to score and Amar’e’s ability to find space and get high quality looks trumps Chandler’s offensive rebounding ability.

    i actually never really thought about #1, but you are right on. 75% of my frustration with both novak and stat stem from the times that they are out there together, without chandler. novak should start at the three, moving shump to the two.

    nicos: A couple of points- 1. Start Novak or bench him- defensively he needs to be playing with Chandler at all times and offensively, even if…

  114. maxwell_3g

    hoolahoop: I have a feeling that Amare already did lash out against Woodson – in private.
    I don’t know if it’s been said before, but it seems to me that Woodson doesn’t like Amare. He doesn’t give him minutes, he ignores Amare when he comes off the floor after playing well, he uses him as a whipping post in public during games, and maybe most telling of all, in interviews, Woodson who’s quick to gush praise for everyone on the team, even Ronnie Brewer, speaks of Amare in a very tempered way.
    Also, although Amare has been playing very well, he doesn’t seem to have the confidence swagger he used to have, that may be from lack of support from the coach. All speculation on my part, but that’s the way it looks to me.
    Amare should be getting more minutes, especially down the stretch.
    I think Amare may have ripped into him, and there’s a chill in the air.

    Damn. you guys all think stat “lashed out” against woodson….based on this performance???? I will admit that amare’s D did not stick out like a sore thumb today, iand i give him credit for that. but before lashing out at the coach, a player better be certain that they are doing everything that they can with the time that they are getting. perhaps amare should “lash out” on the boards instead of the coach, and I would think his complaints (if he has in fact made any, which i doubt he has) would be more justified. hes a max player at PF. 2 rebs???? against a soft heat frontline?? and we are supposed to think that somehow he has been wrongfully benched at the end of games??

  115. maxwell_3g

    BigBlueAL:
    Amar’e did have 1 more rebound than Bosh in 16 less minutes :-)

    well, i wouldnt exaclty say that boash should feel like the toughest competitor down low either. the way to beat the heat is to push them around and dominate the paint. bosh is their problem, but amare needs to exploit that if he wants to play. i think they both are very overrated. honestly, i wanted bosh when they were all free agents, but in hindisght, it would have been best to avoid them both and save the max contract

  116. Z-man

    This game had loss written all over it before it was even played. I can’t really get too upset over it, it was more competitive than many predicted/feared. The next few games are far more important as measuring sticks.

  117. Z-man

    BigBlueAL: The Knicks certainly played well enough to lead at the half even w/o great overall 3pt shooting but Kidd’s outburst is what gave them such a big lead.The Heat flat out dominated the entire 2nd half, the Knicks had a hot stretch in the 2nd quarter which made it seem like they dominated the 1st half imo.

    The Heat dominated the 4th Q, but not the 3rd.

  118. BigBlueAL

    Z-man: The Heat dominated the 4th Q, but not the 3rd.

    Heat outscored the Knicks by 10 pts in both the 3rd (28-18) and 4th (26-16) quarters.

  119. Z-man

    Right, but they went on a run at the very end of the 3rd. For the most part, the quarter was even.

  120. BigBlueAL

    Z-man:
    Right, but they went on a run at the very end of the 3rd. For the most part, the quarter was even.

    I dunno, the Heat in just 3 mins 8 secs cut the 14 pt halftime lead in half. It just felt to me from that point on the Knicks were going to struggle to hold on to the lead which is eventually what happened.

    I mean Im not mad at the way the Knicks played, thought they played hard and pretty good for the most part. They missed a bunch of open 3pters which in the past you could say on most nights that doesnt happen and they make most of those shots but unfortunately that is becoming the norm for this team so I dont even think we can use that as a positive excuse anymore.

    Watching the Heat lately is pretty demoralizing. They just have another gear the Knicks and really every other team in the NBA cant match. They seem to be peaking at the right time while the Knicks no longer have an identity on offense and from game to game we dont even know exactly who is going to play and what lineups will be used. They still have time to figure it out before the playoffs but its going to take Woodson to figure it out.

  121. er

    BigBlueAL: I dunno, the Heat in just 3 mins 8 secs cut the 14 pt halftime lead in half.It just felt to me from that point on the Knicks were going to struggle to hold on to the lead which is eventually what happened.

    I mean Im not mad at the way the Knicks played, thought they played hard and pretty good for the most part.They missed a bunch of open 3pters which in the past you could say on most nights that doesnt happen and they make most of those shots but unfortunately that is becoming the norm for this team so I dont even think we can use that as a positive excuse anymore.

    Watching the Heat lately is pretty demoralizing.They just have another gear the Knicks and really every other team in the NBA cant match.They seem to be peaking at the right time while the Knicks no longer have an identity on offense and from game to game we dont even know exactly who is going to play and what lineups will be used.They still have time to figure it out before the playoffs but its going to take Woodson to figure it out.

    Very true about getting the lead sliced in half. Some of the difference between this game and the first two was the fact that the Knicks built on the halftime lead and the fact that the heat came out like gangbusters was extremely demoralizing for the players in sure

  122. Brian Cronin

    Stupid Indiana just had to win, didn’t they?

    A couple of crazy blowouts tonight. San Antonio beat Detroit by 39 and Houston beat Dallas by 33. Yikes.

  123. Will the Thrill

    People keep talking about Woodson having to “figure it out” but he is notoriously known for NOT figuring things out. He couldn’t for the life of him figure it out in Atlanta when they couldn’t win a road playoff game for multiple years and has had ample time to figure it out here. His stubbornness reminds of D’antoni, even though I know that he stands for exactly what D’antoni doesn’t (which is probably a good thing).

  124. jon abbey

    it was depressing to see Chandler and Melo fuck up that pick and roll late by both sticking with LeBron and letting Bosh go totally free to the basket. dunno if that’s on Woodson or the players, but either way, depressing.

  125. nicos

    maxwell_3g: Damn.you guys all think stat “lashed out” against woodson….based on this performance????I will admit that amare’s D did not stick out like a sore thumb today, iand i give him credit for that.but before lashing out at the coach, a player better be certain that they are doing everything that they can with the time that they are getting.perhaps amare should “lash out” on the boards instead of the coach, and I would think his complaints (if he has in fact made any, which i doubt he has) would be more justified.hes a max player at PF.2 rebs???? against a soft heat frontline?? and we are supposed to think that somehow he has been wrongfully benched at the end of games??

    I doubt Amar’e lashed out at Woodson- if he was really ticked off I think it’d have showed up more on the court and you’d certainly see him sulking on the bench which you really haven’t.
    As for his play- you know how many regular rotation guys have had a TS% of over .640 with a usage of over 25 in the history of the NBA? Three- Adrian Dantley twice and Barkley and Amar’e himself once each. Durant is on pace to do it this year along with Amar’e. So you’re talking about a guy who’s having an incredible scoring season- not just very good- it’s almost unheard of. You’d think Woodson could find more than 21 minutes for him especially given how the team was struggling to score in the second half. Defensively, I really think he’s an adequate four (a little below average but not awful) but a poor five and his defensive struggles there are compounded by the fact that when he’s had to play the five the fours have been either Novak or Melo- neither of whom are great rebounders (though I think Melo’s attention for boxing out is one of the reasons JR and Shump have rebounded so well this year) or protect the rim at all.

  126. BigBlueAL

    Will the Thrill:
    People keep talking about Woodson having to “figure it out” but he is notoriously known for NOT figuring things out.He couldn’t for the life of him figure it out in Atlanta when they couldn’t win a road playoff game for multiple years and has had ample time to figure it out here. His stubbornness reminds of D’antoni, even though I know that he stands for exactly what D’antoni doesn’t (which is probably a good thing).

    The perception is that Woodson stands for what D’Antoni doesnt but the reality is that this team is playing identical to a D’Antoni team. Woodson sounds different than D’Antoni in interviews and post-game press conferences but it doesnt show at all on the floor.

    During the off-season the Knicks made several moves it seemed to distance themselves from playing a D’Antoni type system yet Woodson now refuses to play big and has all these bigs wasting away on the bench while force-feeding a style of play on offense that seems ill-suited for the roster right now. Plus Woodson was supposed to be a disciplinarian and tough coach yet the team still gets needless techs and they still constantly complain to the refs while not hustling back on D.

    I actually give Woodson credit for adapting many (if not all) of D’Antoni’s offense and the players do seem to like and play hard for him. But reading alot of Knick fans on Twitter and on some different Knick blogs/sites today I found it hilarious how so many of them are now complaining about Woodson with the exact same complaints they had about D’Antoni last season. Although lack of playing time for Amar’e was never a problem with D’Antoni lol.

  127. Mr.RIGHT

    Dp you mean to tell me that J.R. Smith & Raymond Felton as opposed to having Jeremy Win & Jamal Crawford (and/or a Tony Allen type) is superior???

    …I think NOT!!!!!

  128. jon abbey

    here’s something that just occurred to me: if you insist on using a token 5th starter and not Amar’e as it probably should be, why not start Kenyon Martin at SF instead of the obviously worthless White?

  129. Frank

    I was actually not so upset about the game. I was pretty worried we’d be blown out, so a close game was a bonus for me. Not saying much I guess. Few thoughts-
    – JR had TEN 3 point attempts in the 2nd half. Out of those 10, 7 of them were wide open (and I mean wide open where there wasn’t a Heat player within 8 feet) and 1 was a corner 3 which was pretty open (but a good closeout). So out of 8 very makeable shots he made only 2. If Miami is going to live and die by JR missing wide open 3’s, I’ll take my chances with that. We win this game if JR makes even half of those.
    – Loved that Felton kept attacking all the way through the game even though his #s sucked. At the end of the game, was Miami purposely letting him drive? Melo basically didn’t touch the ball the last 2-3 minutes.
    – White should be cut. I just don’t see that he gives us anything other than a body to put in front of Lebron. Keeping White instead of Brewer might have been a big mistake. 2 turnovers and 3 fouls with a -6 in 8 minutes. Nice. My guess is he’s gone in the offseason in some sort of a trade using his nonguaranteed 2nd year.
    – completely agree that Amare is a huge mismatch against the Heat’s frontline. I’ll take my chances with Amare vs. Bosh or Amare vs. Chris Anderson any day of the week.
    – maybe biggest play of the game was the LBJ block/foul on Tyson, then Tyson not hustling back, leading to LBJ getting the O-reb putback. There’s no question Tyson got mugged on that play, but in a game like that he has to get back on D. Inexcusable from a guy who is supposed to be a leader on this team.

  130. Frank

    And last thing – other than maybe not playing Amare more, I can’t kill Woodson for this loss. I went back on Synergy and watched all 29 of our 3 point shots, and literally 22 of them were wide open/unguarded. We shot 7 for 22 on those shots, with most of them being shot by above average or very good 3 pointers (Novak, JR, Melo). Any offense that creates 22 wide open 3 pointers in a game is doing its job. In the first quarter alone we missed 5 wide open 3s and as I noted above, JR missed 7 wide open 3s in the game by himself.

    This team is going to live and die with its 3 point shooting, which is ok as long as they are good shots. Yesterday we died by the 3, but the offensive process was good overall IMHO. The other thing that killed us were the unforced turnovers. Neither the missing of wide open 3s nor unforced turnovers should be blamed on Woodson. If we would just stop traveling (I’m looking at you James White) and stepping out of bounds for no reason, we win this game also.

    My guess is that Miami is happy to win the game, but that Spoelstra and co. will not be happy when they watch the film.

  131. Frank

    The other thing that’s funny with how the media covers these teams is that when the Knicks win because Melo scores 40, there’s always an undercurrent of “sure we won but it’s because Melo played hero-ball which is non-sustainable”, as opposed to the Heat, who are literally 150% dependent on Lebron playing like Superman on both ends of the floor to win these games. If Lebron went down with an injury, Miami doesn’t even make it out of the 1st round.

    LBJ is amazing though – that was about as casual a 29/11/7 game as I’ve ever seen.

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