jon abbey: depends on the percentages, the guy he was allegedly guarding (Mayo) scored 40 with a +/- of +20 where Harden’s efficient 39 (w/6 turnovers) left him with a -7 and a loss.

You can tell the obvious bias stat guys have for defense by who they attack for their limitations and who they conveniently ignore.

To set the record straight, while on the Knicks Melo has never had as bad a defensive game as James Harden has every other game this year. He SUCKS at fucking defense. Remember when everyone would get pissed at Melo for not consistently trying? Well Harden is that minus any actual defensive talent. Same with guys like Kevin Love, and Kenneth Faried, Dirk got blasted for years for his mediocre defense, but Love gets a pass for chasing rebounds more than he cares about good defensive position? Hell I remember John Hollinger saying the Knicks were going to be something like the 6th seed since they were likely to regress on defense despite adding a bunch of above average to elite defensive players.

In the one thing they can’t measure, stat heads show how poorly they understand what’s actually happening. A great offensive player means very little if he allows his opponent to become a great offensive player every night. Defense is half the game and we’re calling the worst defenders in the league stars. It’s insulting that Melo’s been in that group for several years, teams NEVER attack him on offense unless they simply have someone like Durant leading the offense. Lazy or not, there’s something to be said when teams game plan around attacking Harden and Faried but not Kevin Martin (better defender than Harden) and Melo.

On that note, Amar’e deserves every defensive criticism we’ve ever got, and I’m still not convinced that’s going to magically change

Owen:
Wow, James Harden. Thirty point half for Houston. On 15 true shots. That should help his percentages….

depends on the percentages, the guy he was allegedly guarding (Mayo) scored 40 with a +/- of +20 where Harden’s efficient 39 (w/6 turnovers) left him with a -7 and a loss.

DRed:
Okay, so there’s only one team in the NBA that can stop our Melo-less offense.I stand corrected.Why do we need Melo back again?

Kidd and Chandler certainly help, but I think the simple explanation is that we’re playing over our heads right now.We’re not shooting this well from 3 over the course of the year.On the other hand, we’ve already won all these games, so even if we’re not a true 60 win talent team, we still have a shot and winning 60.And who knows, if Shump’s shooting improvement down the stretch last year was for real, we might even get better.

Felton, like every player in basketball, is not effective trying to go downhill every single play. Not that they even try.

Besides, a team closing out on Novak or Smith is typically a different outcome when they close hard on Melo.

It doesn’t quite matter if the Knicks are a 40% team from 3, though they can be close. It’s how well they shoot in comparison the league. Of course they can be a top 5 3pt shooting team, and when adjusted for attempts, maybe the most effective 3pt shooting team.

Amar’e opens up another dimension to the offense.

But yeah, this is a TRUE 60-win team, enjoyr yourself denying that at the end of the year.

Kidd and Chandler certainly help, but I think the simple explanation is that we’re playing over our heads right now. We’re not shooting this well from 3 over the course of the year. On the other hand, we’ve already won all these games, so even if we’re not a true 60 win talent team, we still have a shot and winning 60. And who knows, if Shump’s shooting improvement down the stretch last year was for real, we might even get better.

DRed:
A tale of two rurus:

“No team can stop it!! Felton is an elite pnr point guard, and with Chandler’s screening, finishing ability and mobility — that is the key– and the shooters around him, there just isn’t anything teams can do.”

“There are a few teams with a strong enough guard and a mobile and long enough big to slow down the pnr without wing help.
Chicago is one of those teams.”

Ohhh, got me!!

Excuse my excitement in the afterglow of the Heat win, but I stand by that statement with the amended caveat.

As you look across the league, Noah is really the one guy with the lateral movement to hedge on Felton and still get back to Chandler and contest him.

I guess we’ll see if there’s another team out there that can stop that play without helping.

It should be noted that Felton missed 5-6 shots in the paint that were not contested, if he makes 3 or 4 of them, the original statement stands factually, doesn’t it?

I guess that makes up for all the ridiculous makes he had against Miami.

What exactly is your point?

You still haven’t explained how the Knicks have an elite offense despite their three highest usage players being run-of-the-mill, waiver wire caliber players.

Kidd and Chandler, right?

When Pau Gasol got traded from Memphis to the Lakers, he had 3 straight years that would have been career high years in Memphis, while he also had 3 straight years that would have been career lows in usage up to that point. He had never even won a playoff game in Memphis, and suddenly he was going to the Finals with a team that had Derek Fisher as it’s 4th best player (Bynum and Ariza were injured the first year)

Kevin Garnett was a beast in his prime in Minnesota, yet every single year he’s been with the Celtics, years plagued with injuries, advancing age, and a regular season strategy emphasizing health a lot more than wins, he’s had good years in terms of efficiency relative to the rest of his career. There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that he’s not the same player he was in Minnesota, and most of his numbers show it. His TS%, however, has been higher than his career average every single year he’s been in Boston. He went from a playoff afterthought to an instant champion.

All 3 of these guys made these noticeable improvements late in their careers, after they were already established players close to 30. They had already shown some signs of decline with their previous teams, and they had won 3 playoff series in their careers, as well as 0 playoff games between the 3 of them the year before joining the new teams, all of which instantly made the Finals. Hard to believe Kobe, Dirk, Melo and Pierce played no part in those changes

“No team can stop it!! Felton is an elite pnr point guard, and with Chandler’s screening, finishing ability and mobility — that is the key– and the shooters around him, there just isn’t anything teams can do.”

“There are a few teams with a strong enough guard and a mobile and long enough big to slow down the pnr without wing help.
Chicago is one of those teams.”

Prior to tonight, Knicks offensive numbers with Melo on floor and bench.

Chandler: Melo on bench 61%, Melo on floor 73%

Felton: Melo on bench 40, 41% (from 3), Melo on floor 44, 42%

Novak: Melo on bench 35, 34%, Melo on floor 53, 53%

Brewer: Melo on bench 30, 39%, Melo on floor 47, 39%

Wallace: Melo on bench 37, 24%, Melo on floor 40, 33%

The 3 guys who had comparable numbers with Melo on the bench, shot a combined 6-24 tonight, and those numbers wont be added to servers for few hours.

Most players who’ve played with Melo have higher than career efficiency numbers.

Juany8:
Although JR can create in a pinch, that’s really not his strength. He can’t get to the rim off the dribble all that well, which means his shot ration is mostly shooting fadeaways, and he’s a solid, but not great, passer. He works as a nice utility player off the ball, but when he gets asked to actually create shots because there are no other good options, he will struggle. As some have said, that will be the biggest advantage of getting Amar’e back, suddenly the Knicks will be able to run an effective pick and roll the entire game instead of just when Chandler is in. Should help put JR off the ball a bit more, which will help his numbers.

As far as shot creation, when you’re making tough 3?s against a crappy defense like Miami, you’re going to score a ton of points. When you’re not making those same tough 3?s against an elite defense? Not so much. That’s where the true value of a shot creator lies, did no one look at Felton and JR’s attempts to attack the defense and think they could live with some Melo post ups right about now? The Bulls shut down the pick and roll with Chandler, at that point the best options are really Felton, JR, and Sheed jacking up shots.

There are a few teams with a strong enough guard and a mobile and long enough big to slow down the pnr without wing help.

Chicago is one of those teams.

I still think it’s been the best play in basketball this year, and much of that credit goes to Felton.