Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, April 23, 2014

164 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks v T-Wolves

  1. BigBlueAL

    Weird that today NBA LP on TV has the MSG feed while Broadband has the Wolves feed. Usually its the opposite with TV showing the away team and Broadband showing the MSG feed for Knicks home games which is odd in itself because for most of the other games the home team’s broadcast is always shown for both. Ditto for NBA TV games who always use the home team broadcast.

  2. Thomas B. Post author

    T-Wolves starting five white guys (nothing wrong with that I hasten to point out); I haven’t seen this in a loooooong time.

  3. ephus

    I love when Carmelo takes the Bernard King turnaround baseline jumper. If he gets position that deep, he cannot be stopped.

  4. Thomas B. Post author

    Smith looked very good on that drive and dish. He is so quick, that drive can really help his game if he uses it more.

    Meanwhile Felton’s jumper looks lost.

  5. BigBlueAL

    Thomas B.:
    Smith looked very good on that drive and dish.He is so quick, that drive can really help his game if he uses it more.

    Meanwhile Felton’s jumper looks lost.

    Not as lost as the Knicks on D recently.

  6. cgreene

    Thomas B.: NBA league pass broadband is working just fine.

    Cant get that where I am. If anyone has another option…

    ps: Is the defense as bad as it looks on the ESPN play by play and if so WTF????

  7. JK47

    Felton’s midrange jumper is an automatic miss. I don’t know how you play in this league for 10 years and you can’t make an 8-foot jumper.

  8. Thomas B. Post author

    cgreene: Cant get that where I am.If anyone has another option…

    ps: Is the defense as bad as it looks on the ESPN play by play and if so WTF????

    Sorry you don’t have a game option, but we can’t share alternate stream info here. And, yes the defense is bad no matter how you view the game.

  9. JK47

    Very passive effort on defense by the Knicks.

    The Wolves are just patiently moving the ball around the perimeter and getting open looks over and over again. 9 assists on 10 FG for the Wolves. On offense the Knicks have settled for long contested jumpers early in the shot clock too often.

    The Knicks look bad. The Wolves are legitimately outplaying them by a comfortable margin.

  10. cgreene

    Thomas B.: Sorry you don’t have a game option, but we can’t share alternate stream info here.And, yes the defense is bad no matter how you view the game.

    My bad. Thought had seen that shared before. Maybe not. 29 effing points.

  11. BigBlueAL

    Positive thing is with no Love aside from Pekovic all of the Wolves points are gonna have to come from their guards who are pretty erratic so hopefully they go cold eventually. The Wolves have not been a good offensive team this season, believe in ESPN’s efficiency rating they are 20th or so on offense.

  12. BigBlueAL

    Kurt is still very good at covering big men in the post 1-on-1 but he is way too slow to help on guards on the perimeter nowadays.

  13. Thomas B. Post author

    JK47:
    Knicks are doing a better job of getting into the passing lanes here in the second quarter.

    Now if they would pair that with staying in front of the player they’d be on to something.

  14. JK47

    The Wolves are a smart, well-coached team. They’ve done a very good job of identifying and exploiting mismatches on offense.

  15. jon abbey

    are you guys having problems with the MSG feed on TV? mine keeps kind of fuzzing out every few seconds, it’s like I’m watching the game through THCJ’s eyes. :)

  16. johnlocke

    Working fine for me.
    Half observations:
    Without JR this would be a blowout (has to be the first time I’ve thought that all season)
    The dreaded return to the mean is affecting the team’s 3pt shooting (Felton, Brewer, Kidd)
    Novak cannot get open and when he does, he’s rushing
    Melo is not cooking soup

    We need to turn up the D and get Chandler involved (on cue..)

    jon abbey:
    are you guys having problems with the MSG feed on TV? mine keeps kind of fuzzing out every few seconds, it’s like I’m watching the game through THCJ’s eyes. :)

  17. johnlocke

    So many layups, we may want to back off a little bit and let them shoot jumpers..t.hey’re not a great shooting team.

    Thomas B.:
    I’m not liking what I see tonight.

  18. jon abbey

    we need reinforcements so badly, good thing they seem to be coming soon (although Shumpert is the one we need most).

  19. johnlocke

    We also need Amare back. He plays shitty D, but they way we’re playing on D right now, he’ll be neutral, but a HUGE positive on offense. Such a big upgrade over Rasheed, Thomas or Brewer offensively.

    jon abbey:
    we need reinforcements so badly, good thing they seem to be coming soon (although Shumpert is the one we need most).

  20. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    Chandler is getting destroyed by Pekovic.

    Alot of it though is Pekovic getting easy offensive rebs when Chandler has to leave to help on penetration plus he is getting some good looks off the pick-n-roll.

  21. jon abbey

    it’s amazing they’re only down by 8, all things considered. if Melo wakes up, they still have a good shot to pull this one out.

  22. jon abbey

    Chandler is so much of a worse rebounder than he should be, Cunningham went right over his back on that one.

  23. BigBlueAL

    Every time it looks like the Knicks have the momentum and are on the verge of tying the game or taking the lead they do something dumb.

  24. jon abbey

    we’ll take that, all things considered. one big quarter now, need this W before hitting the road.

  25. flossy

    Chubby Chucker trying to shoot us out of another one, oh wait I mean he’s trying to rack up the “Kobe Assists.”

  26. JK47

    This is all isos, ill-advised long jumpers and out-of-control drives to the basket. Some horeshit offense out there right now.

  27. johnlocke

    seriously…so bull-headed. this is what scares me in the playoffs. Him looking off Chandler, a hot JR to shoot mid range jumpers
    I can live with melo going 5-18 from time to time, but not our PG!

    BigBlueAL:
    Felton refuses to allow the Knicks to tie the game.

  28. johnlocke

    Advise to Felton. Drive or pass. If you don’t have the driving lane..pass. do not shoot jumpers this game!!

  29. BigBlueAL

    Cunningham must be upset that Novak is out, no more easy jumpers and offensive rebounds for him now.

  30. johnlocke

    I think we got lucky they missed the next time down the floor. Melo’s favorite variety T is a missed call on one end and then either a shot made or a foul on the next play, at which point he has time to jaw some more at the refs..

    Thomas B.: I’m shocked they didn’t eject him.

  31. JK47

    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game. This is the caricature of the heroball Melo. The guy is not looking to pass.

  32. johnlocke

    Agreed. I think it’s too easy for officials and aggressive defensive play to get into Melo’s head, it clearly throws off his game and thinking out there.

    JK47:
    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game.This is the caricature of the heroball Melo.The guy is not looking to pass.

  33. BigBlueAL

    All the bitching and whining the Knicks have done in the past have clearly gotten them a horrible rep with the refs. They are being targeted like crazy lately.

  34. jon abbey

    JK47:
    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game.This is the caricature of the heroball Melo.The guy is not looking to pass.

    pass to who?

  35. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL:
    All the bitching and whining the Knicks have done in the past have clearly gotten them a horrible rep with the refs.They are being targeted like crazy lately.

    this is the main thing that worried me about picking up Sheed, I blame him.

  36. jon abbey

    ephus:
    Have faith.Jason Kidd is going to figure out a way to drag the Knicks to a victory.

    he hasn’t been that guy for a few weeks now, unfortunately.

  37. ephus

    BigBlueAL:
    Isolating Melo on Kirilenko is stupid.

    And that is why you isolate ‘Melo on AK. They are letting him get deep position. I am willing to live and die with ‘Melo’s ability to convert in the deep post.

  38. johnlocke

    Great pass by JR — who has been the man this game. And Love the drive to the bucket as opposed to the mid-range jump by Melo on that last one. Now we need some D!

    JK47:
    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game.This is the caricature of the heroball Melo.The guy is not looking to pass.

  39. ruruland

    JK47:
    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game.This is the caricature of the heroball Melo.The guy is not looking to pass.

    You mean on the drive? Get specific here. Teammates are lighting it up right now on spot-ups and everything else.

  40. johnlocke

    That russian kid is cocky – instead of driving, shooting that 3. And Adelman should have gotten Ted up for that bullshit reaction

  41. johnlocke

    And that’s why you pay for superstars….played like crap through 3 quarters took over in the last 2 minutes.

  42. jon abbey

    83 points in 160 combined minutes by Melo/Smith/Felton/Chandler.

    11 points in 80 combined minutes by everyone else.

    we need reinforcements, soon.

  43. JK47

    Melo really redeemed himself at the end there. Several clutch baskets and FTs down the stretch. Knicks D also improved greatly in the second half– only 36 second half points for the Wolves. He was forcing it there for a while but down the stretch he got some good one-on-one matchups and exploited them perfectly. So, well done, #7.

    Threes weren’t falling for the Knicks and they still gutted out a win.

  44. johnlocke

    We can’t rely on Melo scoring 30 to win …and the 3pt shooting has cooled off. We need Shump and Amare back. Amare esp when the jumpers aren’t falling. There was a play where Ray passed to Tyson at the FT line and he was open for a split second, took one dribble and then passed the ball back out for a turnover. Amare takes that off the dribble and punishes the defense. The big concern was that Amare was going to disrupt our Top 5 defensive effort… guess what, we’re not a top defensive team anymore this season, we need Amare.

    jon abbey:
    83 points in 160 combined minutes by Melo/Smith/Felton/Chandler.

    11 points in 80 combined minutes by everyone else.

    we need reinforcements, soon.

  45. ruruland

    19 fourth quarter points for Melo with very little else working offensively.

    Yep, no such thing as closers.

  46. jon abbey

    johnlocke:
    We can’t rely on Melo scoring 30 to win …and the 3pt shooting has cooled off. We need Shump and Amare back. Amare esp when the jumpers aren’t falling.There was a play where Ray passed to Tyson at the FT line and he was open for a split second, took one dribble and then passed the ball back out for a turnover. Amare takes that off the dribble and punishes the defense. The big concern was that Amare was going to disrupt our Top 5 defensive effort… guess what, we’re not a top defensive team anymore this season, we need Amare.

    and I love Jason Kidd, but 0 points and 1 assist in 34 minutes is not acceptable.

  47. ruruland

    jon abbey: Cunningham was doing a way better job on him than Kirilenko did, they were lucky Adelman went back to Kirilenko.

    Cunningham was solid. Had some very good possessions on him.

  48. JK47

    Also, only 2 assists and 4 turnovers from Felton. 73 minutes from the dual PG attack of Felton and Kidd and only 3 combined assists. Oh, and 1 FT attempt between the two of them.

  49. jon abbey

    we held them scoreless for almost 3 full minutes after that bullshit foul on Melo/T on Woodson, until the Shved 3 with 17 seconds to go off the steal.

  50. johnlocke

    Looking forward to rewatching that 4th quarter, felt like the Bulls game all over again (wout the blowout)

  51. yellowboy90

    JK47:
    I hate the way Melo is playing in this game.This is the caricature of the heroball Melo.The guy is not looking to pass.

    Apologize to Melo 5. I agreed with you at the time though

  52. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    We can’t rely on Melo scoring 30 to win …and the 3pt shooting has cooled off. We need Shump and Amare back. Amare esp when the jumpers aren’t falling.There was a play where Ray passed to Tyson at the FT line and he was open for a split second, took one dribble and then passed the ball back out for a turnover. Amare takes that off the dribble and punishes the defense. The big concern was that Amare was going to disrupt our Top 5 defensive effort… guess what, we’re not a top defensive team anymore this season, we need Amare.

    This is a team that will play defense when it needs to just like it did tonight.

    I don’t think it would be wise to underestimate Shumpert’s impact when you consider how little Brewer’s given.

    Amar’e will have a huge impact on the offense but his size and weakside presence can’t hurt the defense at this point.

  53. ruruland

    JK47:
    Also, only 2 assists and 4 turnovers from Felton.73 minutes from the dual PG attack of Felton and Kidd and only 3 combined assists.Oh, and 1 FT attempt between the two of them.

    Part of it is shots not falling, most of it is teams daring him to shoot.

    Until his hands get healthy this a will be a huge problem. Felton is making the right decision. He’s taking open shots instead of forcing passes.

    Having Amar’e flashing to the elbow of the middle screen action will help a ton.

  54. johnlocke

    Yup — should also help the rebounding. I’m not really sure what Brewer is adding to this team over the last 10-15 games. Defense is mediocre, offense is atrocious, and rebounding is non-existent. JR is so clearly outplaying him, it’s a joke that he’s a starter. I was also not impressed with his outing against the Bulls, the team that dumped him.

    ruruland: This is a team that will play defense when it needs to just like it did tonight.

    I don’t think it would be wise to underestimate Shumpert’s impact when you consider how little Brewer’s given.

    Amar’e will have a huge impact on the offense but his size and weakside presence can’t hurt the defense at this point.

  55. johnlocke

    I think you’re being a little too easy on Felton. I think Clyde had it right from the very beginning of the broadcast. If his hands are swollen, he should stop shooting so much, especially early in the clock and with not one pass being thrown. He’s such a good penetrator he should look to drive more and put pressure on the defense and shoot the jumper when he’s wide open.

    ruruland: Part of it is shots not falling, most of it is teams daring him to shoot.

    Until his hands get healthy thisa will be a huge problem. Felton is making the right decision. He’s taking open shots instead of forcing passes.

    Having Amar’e flashing to the elbow of the middle screen action will help a ton.

  56. ruruland

    yellowboy90: Apologize to Melo 5. I agreed with you at the time though

    When a team is struggling to score, sometimes you have to rely on your best shot-creator to figure it out.

    From Dirk, to MJ, Kobe, Durant et al, championship caliber teams have a guy who does what Melo does when nothing else is working.

    Melo drives to score. His assists come from creating double teams.

  57. jon abbey

    johnlocke:
    I think you’re being a little too easy on Felton. I think Clyde had it right from the very beginning of the broadcast. If his hands are swollen, he should stop shooting so much, especially early in the clock and with not one pass being thrown. He’s such a good penetrator he should look to drive more and put pressure on the defense and shoot the jumper when he’s wide open.

    interesting to note that he ended with an identical 7-15 as JR.

  58. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    I think you’re being a little too easy on Felton. I think Clyde had it right from the very beginning of the broadcast. If his hands are swollen, he should stop shooting so much, especially early in the clock and with not one pass being thrown. He’s such a good penetrator he should look to drive more and put pressure on the defense and shoot the jumper when he’s wide open.

    I don’t think Felton is capable of playing 35-40 minutes where he is consistently penetrating.

    You know, moving forward, I look at him as much more of a 20-25 minute guy who can go full throttle in his minutes. Would love to see the Knicks have two Feltons, and its clear that Lin would have been a really good fit sharing minutes.

    Not even Rondo is in the paint the whole game. Felton is a good penetrator, but it’s not good basketball to try to drive against a defense that is sinking back into the paint, against guards going under screens, unless you are an incredible playmaker andhave the body and handle to probe the paint without really accelerating like Nash and Paul do.

  59. jon abbey

    Pekovic didn’t score for the last 19 minutes of the game, Chandler is amazing when he goes all-out.

  60. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    Yup — should also help the rebounding. I’m not really sure what Brewer is adding to this team over the last 10-15 games. Defense is mediocre, offense is atrocious, and rebounding is non-existent. JR is so clearly outplaying him, it’s a joke that he’s a starter. I was also not impressed with his outing against the Bulls, the team that dumped him.

    Right. Moving Amar’e into the lineup gives you a better rebounder and at the 4, and frees up Melo to come down into the paint without wrestling with an opposing big man.

    I honestly think Amare helps the defense more than Brewer does at least at this point. Brewer’s team defense and rotations are terrible. He’s frequently the cause of perimeter breakdowns.

  61. yellowboy90

    ruruland: When a team is struggling to score, sometimes you have to rely on your best shot-creator to figure it out.

    From Dirk, to MJ,Kobe, Durant et al, championship caliber teams have a guy who does what Melo does when nothing else is working.

    Melo drives to score. His assists come from creating double teams.

    He still needs to become a willing passer off the drive and especially off the PnR. The big comes over and his man trails him sometimes leaving the lob open for Tyson. I know he is a great finisher but that may open it up more for him cause the big will hesitate to help off of Tyson.

  62. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    Pekovic didn’t score for the last 19 minutes of the game, Chandler is amazing when he goes all-out.

    YEah, but he was getting murdered the first 3 quarters. Need Camby, too. Not that he’d be a great match-up against Pekovic, but he could spell Chandler and make him more effective in his time.

  63. ruruland

    yellowboy90: He still needs to become a willing passer off the drive and especially off the PnR. The big comes over and his man trails him sometimes leaving the lob open for Tyson. I know he is a great finisher but that may open it up more for him cause the big will hesitate to help off of Tyson.

    I’d have to see. Sometimes Melo, like Amar’e, gets tunnel vision on his drives.

  64. johnlocke

    Fair points, I think my general beef is that sometimes Felton forgets he’s a PG and goes into hero mode and has poor shot selection. When Melo is out fine, but we don’t need him to do that — all the more reason that Amare coming back should help. His 7-15 finish I think was largely the result of penetration — to my memory he made only 2 jumpers. And JAbbey, JR also was 7-15 but had 5 boards, 7 assists, 3 steals.. w/o JR we get blown out in the first half, no doubt.

    ruruland: I don’t think Felton is capable of playing 35-40 minutes where he is consistently penetrating.

    You know, moving forward, I look at him as much more of a 20-25 minute guy who can go full throttle in his minutes. Would love to see the Knicks have two Feltons, and its clear that Lin would have been a really good fit sharing minutes.

    Not even Rondo is in the paint the whole game. Felton is a good penetrator, but it’s not good basketball to try to drive against a defense that is sinking back into the paint, against guards going under screens, unless you are an incredible playmaker andhave the body and handle to probe the paint without really accelerating like Nash and Paul do.

  65. jon abbey

    johnlocke:
    And JAbbey, JR also was 7-15 but had 5 boards, 7 assists, 3 steals.. w/o JR we get blown out in the first half, no doubt.

    oh yeah, JR had a way better game, no question. he was awesome early on when everyone else looked asleep.

  66. BigBlueAL

    I thought Melo was having his way with Cunningham in the 4th. He was driving by him at will just wasnt finishing all the time. Cunningham was a pain on the offensive end cause Novak kept losing him.

    AK47 is a tough matchup for any player trying to score on him. Thankfully when we needed him most Melo was able to get the And1 on him but in general just going Iso at him regardless of who is doing so is not a good option. Not that it should mean dont bother going to Melo if AK47 is on him but just giving him the ball from 20 ft away and telling him basically score one-on-one is not the smartest things to do.

  67. ephus

    Minnesota was not fighting ‘Melo off of his spot. The one time that Cunningham tried to front ‘Melo, he got the nice backdoor feed for the jam. ‘Melo missed a lot of shots through the first three quarters, but in the fourth quarter, he went into Bernard mode.

  68. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    Kidd is a brutal 11-42 in the last six games, after that game in Brooklyn that he won at the end.

    Too many minutes catching up to him??

  69. ephus

    Even though Kidd is not hitting his shots right now, his floor generalship helped a lot in the last four minutes. He is still a net positive.

    There are definitely a lot of minutes for Amar’e and Shumpert to take. Kidd, ‘Melo and Felton are playing too many minutes, Brewer should be on the bench, as should Thomas. Easy to find 24 minutes per night for Shumpert and 24- 28 minutes per night for STAT.

    This is a great time to be a Knick fan.

  70. jon abbey

    ephus:

    There are definitely a lot of minutes for Amar’e and Shumpert to take.Kidd, ‘Melo and Felton are playing too many minutes, Brewer should be on the bench, as should Thomas.Easy to find 24 minutes per night for Shumpert and 24- 28 minutes per night for STAT.

    Novak too, if he can’t find a way to get open, no reason for him to be out there.

  71. ephus

    jon abbey: Novak too, if he can’t find a way to get open, no reason for him to be out there.

    Depends on whether teams are still sticking with him, and creating space for others. If teams are cheating off of Novak and he is not hitting, there is no reason to have him on the court. But the Nets and Bulls were sticking with him, which opens up operating room for ‘Melo, JR and the PnR.

  72. jon abbey

    ephus: Depends on whether teams are still sticking with him, and creating space for others.If teams are cheating off of Novak and he is not hitting, there is no reason to have him on the court.But the Nets and Bulls were sticking with him, which opens up operating room for ‘Melo, JR and the PnR.

    it opens up space for them, but he’s enough of a detriment on D that it’s hard to justify playing him if he can’t get open and hit shots.

    whew, adrenaline finally wearing off after this one, I was revved up down the stretch.

  73. JC Knickfan

    Hero ball all the way tonight and it worked just fine.

    Still no love for Copeland. Still wouldn’t mind seeing Brewer minutes transfer to Copeland.

    Also Rick Adelman is good coach. With Love and Rubio out for the majority of year this team shouldn’t be this good. Also did quick roster check – 10 white guys on roster, interesting.

  74. Mr.RIGHT

    I notice nobody here wants to hand out grades when it comes to Fat-Ray-Ray the perpetual Game #7 John Starks. And is quick to prove they’re Knicks fans not Jeremy Lin fans professing how much better this team is with Felton (NOT) … If this team had a PG of Rubio or even Goran Dragic abilty WE WOULDN’T BE seeing our guys challenged as much at three point line …As of now we have a guy at Point who can’t even finish a Lay up and you all think we’re better off with Felton just to prove you’re not Lin fans but Knick fans instead ..Guess what I’m a Knicks fan too …Ray has to go! I rather have Bibby back!

  75. Mr.RIGHT

    Mr.RIGHT: I rather have Mr.BigShot “Billups” back too both of them Bibby or Billups or even Heinrich

    Mr.RIGHT:
    I notice nobody here wants to hand out grades when it comes to Fat-Ray-Ray the perpetual Game #7 John Starks. And is quick to prove they’re Knicks fans not Jeremy Lin fans professing how much better this team is with Felton (NOT)… If this team had a PG of Rubio or even Goran Dragic abilty WE WOULDN’T BE seeing our guys challenged as much at three point line …As of now we have a guy at Point who can’t even finish a Lay up and you all think we’re better off with Felton just to prove you’re not Lin fans but Knick fans instead ..Guess what I’m a Knicks fan too …Ray has to go! I rather have Bibby back!

    I rather have Mr.BigShot “Billups” back too both of them Bibby or Billups or even Hinrich, Ellis, Curry, Austin Rivers or Redick over Ray Felton ANYDAY!

  76. rohank

    Hi Everyone!

    I was at the game tonight (amazing gf bought me tix for xmas). Even she noted the offense was really stagnant at times. Besides not moving around in the halfcourt, there were very few, if any, fast-break opportunities that I remember. The Garden was MEGA-Loud after that Melo 3-pointer though. Everyone was pretty much on their feet from then on out. Great game to be at. Perfect Christmas weekend.

    Oh and Kidd is her new favorite player because he’s the smartest. =P

  77. Will the Thrill

    Great win coming from a crappy game. Our defense at the end of the game really came on, though. It seems like we are just holding on waiting for the return of our injured guys and thankfully Amar’e should be back soon to tide us over.

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