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Tuesday, July 29, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks v. Nuggets

No preview tonight. Instead I’d like to bore you with a quick word on keeping the discourse civil. We are all spirited fans of our beloved Knicks. We all have views on what moves should be made, how players should be evaluated, and of course which one of us knows the most about basketball (and we can all agree that I am not that person).

I’ve noticed that the spirited debates have at time devolved into a few isolated but very nasty personal attacks. I’d like to ask you all to keep your disagreements civil. Lets focus on the fact that in spite of all our different views, our team is still playing at a level that hasn’t existed since this fine blog began many moons ago.

Feel free to disagree, but just keep it civil please.

Your in-game civility here.

183 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks v. Nuggets

  1. Nick C.

    “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some people you just can’t reach. …”
    melo starting.

  2. Owen

    due for some editing….

    God, Carmelo is so great. Leadership is just so galvanizing…..

    How is it possible the Nuggets have played 14 road games aleady. Seems unbelievable.

  3. Nick C.

    Now that’s what I like. High screen by Tyson. Felton droves and dishes to Brewer for the corner three.

  4. ShumpStuff

    Dunno what’s scarier, that last tyson slam or that Javale mcgee and JR are on the court together

  5. Nick C.

    Clyde “you see McGee is always jumping to block the shot and that’s why Chandler was able to get the rebound” after a Tyson smash following a Melo drive.

  6. Owen

    McGee is one of the lowest iq bball players I have ever seen…..

    Does something dumb every time he either

    A. Touches the ball
    B. doesn’t do something ridiculously awesome

  7. Thomas B. Post author

    DRed:
    It would be cool if Marcus Camby could, like, play a few minutes of basketball.

    Yes but at his age I’m not sure he can.

  8. DRed

    Thomas B.: Yes but at his age I’m not sure he can.

    Good thing we’ve got him for 2 more years.

    Kidd’s going to have to bring the patch back if he keeps getting clubbed like that.

  9. johnlocke

    The best thing about Melo being back is less JR and Felton shots…..although JR is still jacking them up. I thought Prigs gave us nice minutes of ball movement. We’ve really gone away from ball movement.

  10. johnlocke

    Yes, except McGee is much lower usage… so his fits and starts don’t help/kill the Nuggets as much as feast or famine JR

    Owen:
    He’s really the frontcourt version of JR Smith

  11. Juany8

    BigBlueAL:
    Nets just lost at home to the Bucks, their 4th loss in a row (last 3 coming at home).

    As soon as Jerry Stackhouse stopped being a better version of Novak, the Nets stopped being good. Who knew that having a played go 4-5 from 3 could make a big difference in a game that goes to overtime? Their defense is still surprisingly good though, I think they make it to 50 wins and possibly win in the first round.

  12. Nick C.

    It looks like Melo may have adjusted to his bandage after shooting a bit smoshy in the first quarter.

  13. Frank O.

    Ball moving again tonight.
    I does appear that teams will try to let Ray beat them.
    I think the Knicks pick and roll with be devastating with Amare.
    Prigs is going to feed Amare like crazy.

  14. DRed

    johnlocke:
    The best thing about Melo being back is less JR and Felton shots…..although JR is still jacking them up.I thought Prigs gave us nice minutes of ball movement. We’ve really gone away from ball movement.

    johnlocke:
    The best thing about Melo being back is less JR and Felton shots…..although JR is still jacking them up.I thought Prigs gave us nice minutes of ball movement. We’ve really gone away from ball movement.

    They’re still 6-18.

  15. Juany8

    Also Melo should have just sat out tonight. Even if the Knicks lost, they have an absolutely excellent chance of getting a top 3 seed, which is all they need to avoid Miami until the ECF. You’d prefer the home court in the second round, but health is far more valuable than one extra home game

  16. Nick C.

    Do you think Lopez being out has mattered? Not the defense necessarily. haha

    Juany8: As soon as Jerry Stackhouse stopped being a better version of Novak, the Nets stopped being good. Who knew that having a played go 4-5 from 3 could make a big difference in a game that goes to overtime? Their defense is still surprisingly good though, I think they make it to 50 wins and possibly win in the first round.

  17. maxwell_3g

    once again, our offense strategy at the end of quarters is non-sensical. somehow it worked there

  18. johnlocke

    Melo looks fine…

    Juany8:
    Also Melo should have just sat out tonight. Even if the Knicks lost, they have an absolutely excellent chance of getting a top 3 seed, which is all they need to avoid Miami until the ECF. You’d prefer the home court in the second round, but health is far more valuable than one extra home game

  19. yellowboy90

    Melo getting the Harden treatment from the refs. Actually he has been getting calls since that horrendous early stint.

  20. Juany8

    Nick C.:
    Do you think Lopez being out has mattered? Not the defense necessarily. haha

    Haha obviously that makes a noticeable difference, but still they were winning for a while because of pretty… unexpected levels of play from some of their bench players. That’s cooled off, and Lopez being out makes them outright bad.

  21. Juany8

    johnlocke:
    Melo looks fine…

    Melo’s getting free throws, but his shot looks a bit off. Still this is the 4th game the Knicks have played in 4 nights, I know it’s Denver but there was really no need for him to play, those Miami and Charlotte wins gave the Knicks some cushion, especially since Atlanta is the only team that’s really close, and I just don’t fear Atlanta in the playoffs, although they have looked surprisingly good

  22. johnlocke

    I think it’s a little too early to be strategizing about play-off positioning, you get the wins when you can. And if Melo says he’s fine I’m good with it. He just looked a little rusty over all, but he still has 15+ points in the first half. Given how JR and Felton have looked we would probably be down double digits without him

    Juany8: Melo’s getting free throws, but his shot looks a bit off. Still this is the 4th game the Knicks have played in 4 nights, I know it’s Denver but there was really no need for him to play, those Miami and Charlotte wins gave the Knicks some cushion, especially since Atlanta is the only team that’s really close, and I just don’t fear Atlanta in the playoffs, although they have looked surprisingly good

  23. ephus

    Koufas will be the stunt double for Nenad Kristic when they make the movie about the chairswinging brawl at Eurobasketball 2012.

  24. BigBlueAL

    All the goodwill Felton had built up with most Knick fans this season is being undone these last 2 nights lol

  25. ephus

    BigBlueAL:
    All the goodwill Felton had built up with most Knick fans this season is being undone these last 2 nights lol

    -2000

    Felton’s performance in Miami buys him a lot of good will in this corner.

  26. johnlocke

    Agreed. Just give me more driving to the hole and less pull up jumpers Felton. You don’t have to take EVERY shot the defense gives you.

    ephus: -2000

    Felton’s performance in Miami buys him a lot of good will in this corner.

  27. BigBlueAL

    I like Felton so I was being sarcastic but 9 for 30 last night and tonight currently 3 for 13 is tough to watch.

  28. ephus

    And that shot by ‘Melo is the ghost of Bernard past.

    Fade away spin jumper from the baseline at 10′. I love it.

  29. maxwell_3g

    gallo being a reliable scorer is really holding the nuggets back from being a lot better. i love gallo’s game but his shot has clearly regressed

  30. johnlocke

    Why is Thomas in the game? Where is Copeland? I really don’t get why that kid doesn’t play.

  31. johnlocke

    I ask again, we can’t score…we have Copeland sitting on the bench…and we play Thomas against a young team. Makes no sense. And for the love, can JR sit on the bench for a little while?

  32. johnlocke

    Good! Melo should have come in for JR, but woody doesn’t believe in resting JR

    Static:
    Felton nowhere to be seen on this run.

  33. cgreene

    JR sucks. But for some reason I still want him in the game. His D and rebounding are good. And he can hit a shot at any moment. It’s weird self torture.

  34. Juany8

    Might be better to finish with Brewer instead of JR this game. I think Woodson has to send the message that Brewer is clearly playing better right now. Not the same as just benching him after a bad play

  35. Will the Thrill

    I honestly think that Woodson knows JR is a headcase, and is afraid of what will happen to his game if he takes him out for playing poorly.

    johnlocke:
    Bet you Novak comes in for Brew and not JR…bet you $5 lol

  36. BigBlueAL

    cgreene:
    JR sucks.But for some reason I still want him in the game.His D and rebounding are good.And he can hit a shot at any moment.It’s weird self torture.

    You are a masochist.

  37. Will the Thrill

    JR!! The crazy thing with JR is that his form makes it look like all of his shots have an equal chance of going in, no matter the defense.

  38. BigBlueAL

    With the way the 3rd quarter ended and 4th quarter began didnt think Knicks had much of a chance of pulling this game out. Nice freaking win!!

  39. Juany8

    johnlocke:
    Thank god Melo played tonight

    Haha yea I take back my previous statement. Seems like these past 2 games put to rest any doubt that the Knicks are better with Anthony

  40. maxwell_3g

    i love the win, but the way to close out games is not to stand around and kill the clock until melo hucks up guarded threes. got to keep the ball moving even with the lead

  41. Owen

    That’s a pretty sick line from Kidd.

    Honestly, who has been a better shooting guard in the Eastern Conference. Kind of crazy how well he is playing.

  42. johnlocke

    Even during that Miami win never doubted it…we hit a ton of contested threes in that game and Felton had probably the best game of his NBA career… Great win, feels good to be on the other side of “we didn’t deserve to win, but we won anyway games’

    Juany8: Haha yea I take back my previous statement. Seems like these past 2 games put to rest any doubt that the Knicks are better with Anthony

  43. Owen

    “johnlocke:
    Thank god Melo played tonight

    Haha yea I take back my previous statement. Seems like these past 2 games put to rest any doubt that the Knicks are better with Anthony”

    Yeah, the -10 and the 34 points on 32 shots, with one assist, really going to silence the critics….

  44. BigBlueAL

    Brent Barry saying on NBA TV that Woodson has basically stolen D’Antoni’s offense. He wasnt saying it in a negative way just talking about how different his offense in NY is from what he ran in Atlanta.

  45. Juany8

    johnlocke:
    Even during that Miami win never doubted it…we hit a ton of contested threes in that game and Felton had probably the best game of his NBA career… Great win, feels good to be on the other side of “we didn’t deserve to win, but we won anyway games’

    Oh I never did either, there’s a huge difference between the wide open 3′s the Knicks got in the first Miami game vs. the contested looks the Knicks happened to make in the second game. It was a nice win, but definitely fool’s gold.

  46. johnlocke

    I noticed you skipped over the FTs, and the FG% in the 4th quarter when both defenses were trying to lock down. Winning is all I care about…fuck the critics

    Owen:
    “johnlocke:
    Thank god Melo played tonight

    Haha yea I take back my previous statement. Seems like these past 2 games put to rest any doubt that the Knicks are better with Anthony”

    Yeah, the -10 and the 34 points on 32 shots, with one assist, really going to silence the critics….

  47. ruruland

    maxwell_3g:
    i love the win, but the way to close out games is not to stand around and kill the clock until melo hucks up guarded threes.got to keep the ball moving even with the lead

    This is how the Billups Pistons closed out games.

    A lot of it is 4 games in 5 nights, which is the most brutal scenario in sports IMO. To go 3-1 against those teams is great. 2-2 would have been a victory.

    But when youre up 6-8 with 2 or so minutes, I want the lowest turnover play in the most amount of time. Isolations have a lot of value in the right situations. You saw one of them tonight.

    Continuity basketball is much harder to play when the defense is locked in, the game is allowed to be more physical, and when legs are tired.

    There is a reason teams play isolation ball in these situations, especially when you have great isolation players.

  48. Glew

    How about Kidd strategically posting people up tonight? Not sure if I have seen him do that this season but the guy really is a wizard. Looked pretty spry as well hustling back to get after lawson, guy is unbelievable! Awesome win!

  49. BigBlueAL

    Owen:
    “johnlocke:
    Thank god Melo played tonight

    Haha yea I take back my previous statement. Seems like these past 2 games put to rest any doubt that the Knicks are better with Anthony”

    Yeah, the -10 and the 34 points on 32 shots, with one assist, really going to silence the critics….

    24 shots. 34 pts on 24 FGA isnt bad, plus the 6 rebs and 2 stls with only 1 to playing with 5 stitches on a finger is pretty good. JR shot 5 for 19 with 0 asts and 2 to’s but was a +12, did he have a great game????

  50. BigBlueAL

    Glew:
    How about Kidd strategically posting people up tonight? Not sure if I have seen him do that this season but the guy really is a wizard. Looked pretty spry as well hustling back to get after lawson, guy is unbelievable! Awesome win!

    Amazing too considering it was his and the team’s 4th game in 5 days which were his first games back from the back injury.

  51. ruruland

    Glew:
    How about Kidd strategically posting people up tonight? Not sure if I have seen him do that this season but the guy really is a wizard. Looked pretty spry as well hustling back to get after lawson, guy is unbelievable! Awesome win!

    He’s been a good post up player for awhile. Told y’all that months ago.

    Felton was dead. Great to have that fall back. To me, this was second most impressive win of year.

  52. Owen

    Kidd had 17 points on ten shots and 7 assists to just one turnover to extend his lead in that category. And he played amazing defense.

    Honestly, the decline of Kidd is way overstated. Two seasons away from leading an NBA championship team. This guy is playing at an elite level…..

    The pimping of Melo on MSG is pretty unbearable….

  53. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: 24 shots.34 pts on 24 FGA isnt bad, plus the 6 rebs and 2 stls with only 1 to playing with 5 stitches on a finger is pretty good.JR shot 5 for 19 with 0 asts and 2 to’s but was a +12, did he have a great game????

    Honestly, there is no point in doing this with Owen and the rest. I’m done with it, total waste of time.

    Would be great if this site had an ignore feature.

  54. BigBlueAL

    ruruland: Honestly, there is no point in doing this with Owen and the rest. I’m done with it, total waste of time.

    Would be great if this site had an ignore feature.

    Nah man, w/o Owen and THCJ it would be pretty boring. Dont mind the opposite views since it does make for some fun debates although it does at times get nauseating when its the same debates over and over.

    I really dont give a crap who the media gives most credit to for the Knicks winning as long as they continue winning. Well except for James Dolan.

  55. johnlocke

    Kidd was the man no doubt… but his 7 efficient shots weren’t going to undo the no-legs 4-15 shooting from Felton and the horrendous 5-19 shooting from JR. Kidd then Chandler then Melo were the keys tonight, we don’t win without either of the above guys

    Owen:
    Kidd had 17 points on ten shots and 7 assists to just one turnover to extend his lead in that category. And he played amazing defense.

    Honestly, the decline of Kidd is way overstated. Two seasons away from leading an NBA championship team. This guy is playing at an elite level…..

    The pimping of Melo on MSG is pretty unbearable….

  56. yellowboy90

    ruruland: Honestly, there is no point in doing this with Owen and the rest. I’m done with it, total waste of time.

    Would be great if this site had an ignore feature.

    I am more impressed by Melo’s D tonight. The job he did on Lawson when he switched over was great along with the steals and one on one D. Even affected a few shots.

    Plus he yelled out Ball don’t lie. lol.

  57. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: Nah man, w/o Owen and THCJ it would be pretty boring.Dont mind the opposite views since it does make for some fun debates although it does at times get nauseating when its the same debates over and over.

    I really dont give a crap who the media gives most credit to for the Knicks winning as long as they continue winning.Well except for James Dolan.

    Shoot, I’d love it if it were actual debating.

    It’s not.

  58. ruruland

    yellowboy90: I am more impressed by Melo’s D tonight. The job he did on Lawson when he switched over was great along with the steals and one on one D. Even affected a few shots.

    Plus he yelled out Ball don’t lie. lol.

    He had some good possessions. He looked tired these last two games to me. Lacking the pop in his legs right now.

    Amare is going to make a huge difference.

  59. Static

    I think Shumpert may make a huge difference actually if he can be at 85% or so, small quick guys are killing the knicks right now.

  60. Z-man

    I wonder how all those a-holes that left the site over the Lin non-matching are doing…great time to give up on being a Knicks fan!

  61. BigBlueAL

    Z-man:
    I wonder how all those a-holes that left the site over the Lin non-matching are doing…great time to give up on being a Knicks fan!

    Forget them, the best part is how so many trolls who were all over this site after the Melo trade are all gone now. The most miserable time on this site was immediately after the Melo trade, especially when they struggled after initially being 6-3 after the trade. Melo’s amazing play during the 7-game winning streak at the end of the season and his Game 2 performance vs Boston silenced most of them until his return after Linsanity.

    As divisive as letting Lin go was nothing to me was as bad as the months immediately following the Melo trade. But guys like Owen and THCJ have been here since before I became a regular here so I dont mind them at all. Its the guys who come out of nowhere when the team is struggling and just constantly post crap ripping the team (mostly Melo) and troll like crazy that are annoying.

  62. d-mar

    Was at the game, really felt like a loss was inevitable when they got down by 8. Novak.s 3s were HUGE, and Kidd did a great job running the point. And props to Woody fone beautiful play out of a timeout and leaving Felton on the bench for most of the 4th quarter. Crappy shooting, awful transition D and a win – I’ll take it.

  63. Z-man

    d-mar:
    Was at the game, really felt like a loss was inevitable when they got down by 8. Novak.s 3s were HUGE, and Kidd did a great job running the point. And props to Woody fone beautiful play out of a timeout and leaving Felton on the benchfor most of the 4th quarter. Crappy shooting, awful transition D and a win – I’ll take it.

    Ugly wins vs. middling teams at home under tough circumstances…that’s what elite teams do!

  64. jon abbey

    second straight game I lost a long post to the server going down right after the game, irritating.

    was that the first time Kidd was the main PG down the stretch this year? dude is a basketball wizard, Tyson was also great tonight as was Melo after a slow start. also Novak was invisible most of the game but his two threes at the start of that huge run were immense. great win, 19-1 at home under Woodson now! 33-11 overall, not even ruru saw this team coming together this smoothly this quickly.

  65. ruruland

    Z-man: It doesn’t? I thought that’s why my posts never get answered…

    Nah, you’re a hell of a poster.

    It’s typically the best posts that get the least direct responses because they’re either compelling from an argument standpoint or there too few poor ideas to rebuke.

  66. Juany8

    I think there’s a strong argument that Kidd should be in the all star game, but let’s see of he keeps this up for the whole season. He’s still pretty damn old, might have some slow stretches throughout the season. Regardless he’s been a perfect fit for this team, it’s pretty awesome that he came to the Knicks because he thought they were a legit contender

  67. BigBlueAL

    Totally useless fact from the official Knicks twitter feed, Sheed is apparently the first Knick ever to wear #36.

  68. johnlocke

    Melo (Fans) and Chandler (coaches) are shoo-ins… I don’t think we’re gonna get 3 players in the game… Felton is shooting himself out of contention over the last couple games

    Juany8:
    I think there’s a strong argument that Kidd should be in the all star game, but let’s see of he keeps this up for the whole season. He’s still pretty damn old, might have some slow stretches throughout the season. Regardless he’s been a perfect fit for this team, it’s pretty awesome that he came to the Knicks because he thought they were a legit contender

  69. Glew

    ruruland: He’s been a good post up player for awhile. Told y’all that months ago.

    Felton was dead. Great to have that fall back. To me, this was second most impressive win of year.

    Yeah man I was honestly a little down on the Kidd signing since I wanted to see em go get a young athletic guard who could shoot the 3. I had no idea Kidd would become the smartest/craftiest player i’ve ever seen. He’s been money from downtown/so good at getting people to foul him as he shoots it too. I wonder if he developed the longer release as way to decipher if the optimal play is to shoot or draw the foul??

    I never really noticed the nuances in his game. For example there was a play tonight in the 3rd or 4th quarter where Gallo was trying to post at the elbow and Kidd was on him. Kidd was somehow able to force him out of position toward other defenders where he could not receive the pass without fouling (unless jedi mind tricks are foul play). The Nugs then tried a skip pass that went out of bounds. TO knick ball. Just absolutely incredible watching Kidd at work.

  70. Kurt

    I also can’t wait for Amar’e to come back. His presence means no more significant minutes for the senior members of the AARP contingent (Camby and Thomas). But aside from that, Amar’e means much fewer shots for Felton, and much less defensive pressure on Felton when Amar’e is a risk to come from the weak side. He also means less but better shots for JR and more open looks for Novak.

    I was also thinking that Amar’e would be best playing a lot of minutes together with Sheed, since Sheed doesn’t like going past the 3 point line anyway. He’s also a great communicator on defense so he can guide Amar’e on the floor. The only time I’m really concerned about Amar’e starting is when the Knicks play a small ball lineup, like Miami, as Amar’e wouldn’t have anyone to guard unless Battier or the like plays small forward.

  71. johnno

    Glew: I wonder if he developed the longer release

    Kidd has become a much better outside shooter later in his career than he used to be. I think that one reason is that he has a much better follow-through on his shot. He now has a nice long follow-through with a wrist-flick at the end like he is waving good-bye to the ball — kind of like a Novak follow-through. He used to kind of “short-arm” his shot (I actually used to think that he literally had short arms) and pull his hand back as he let go of the ball — kind of like how Dwight Howard snaps his hand back when he lets go of the ball.

  72. Glew

    johnno: Kidd has become a much better outside shooter later in his career than he used to be.I think that one reason is that he has a much better follow-through on his shot.He now has a nice long follow-through with a wrist-flick at the end like he is waving good-bye to the ball — kind of like a Novak follow-through.He used to kind of “short-arm” his shot (I actually used to think that he literally had short arms) and pull his hand back as he let go of the ball — kind of like how Dwight Howard snaps his hand back when he lets go of the ball.

    Nice i kind of assumed he had to have altered his form throughout his career, I found this gem while looking for a visual of what your describing-Kidd highlights. You will probably want to put it on mute though

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Po4gjxlF-4

  73. massive

    Great win tonight behind the stellar play of Jason Kidd, Tyson Chandler, and Carmelo Anthony. Jason Kidd has to be the best free agent signing of the off-season league-wide. I see why Mark Cuban was so mad at Kidd leaving the Mavericks high and dry lol. I hope Raymond Felton can play to the level he’s been at on his prior playoff bound teams. The 19 and 7 with 0 turnovers Ray Felton is the guy I want, not the 4-15 and needs to be benched Ray. I feel like JR, Melo, and Ray force things too much. This team could be so much better if they could cut down on the bad shot attempts relatively early in the shot clock. Like heat-check 3s from Melo, forced off-balance mid-range looks Melo/JR Smith, and those ugly floaters Raymond Felton (has he made one of those all season?) don’t have to be a part of this offense. And Melo needs to stop jogging back on defense against the better fast break teams in the league. Still, great win overall and I hope Felton doesn’t shoot us out of the Brooklyn game again lol.

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