Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, August 31, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks v Bulls

Time to grab the bull by the horns. Your in-game thoughts here.

163 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks v Bulls

  1. maxwell_3g

    why is NBATV trying to f’ with me (us). Isaiah on the pregame show? this is when you roll him out? really?

  2. BigBlueAL

    Isiah talked about how he left the Knicks with 2 All-Stars (Randolph and Lee) and a 6th Man of the Year (Crawford). Said that core couldve been a very good team if they had kept it together.

    Still is the ultimate con man lol.

  3. maxwell_3g

    can someone please lock brewer in a room with the shot doctor Hopla for the weekend? this is crazy

  4. ephus

    JK47:
    What exactly is Ronnie Brewer good at?

    Defense and slashing to the basket. Unfortunately, he has been called upon to be a spot up shooter. At the start of the season, he was draining the shots. For the last two weeks, not so much.

  5. JK47

    Pretty sucky defense by the Knicks in this quarter. Late closeouts, poor transition defense, dumb fouls.

  6. BigBlueAL

    Bad 1st quarter defense continues. Its getting to the point where the Knicks could play a high-school team and they still would give up close to 30 pts in the 1st quarter. Annoying trend.

  7. ephus

    Remember when the NBA cognoscenti used to deride Noah for “fake hustle”. At this point, I think Noah has gotten the last laugh.

    And then JR Smith pulls off the 2 for 1 and gets the 3 point play. I swear he is getting savvier on the court. [Ducks lightning bolt]

  8. ephus

    So JR Smith finishes out the 2 for 1 by draining the long distance 3. If he just has a $100 head on that $1 million body, he is going to be dangerous. Right, Ruru.

  9. yellowboy90

    I still do not know why Smith does not guard the better wing player when he and Kidd are on the floor. Let kidd guard bogans or Jimmy Butler and let Smith guard Deng or Johnson.

  10. BigBlueAL

    My God the refs are letting everything go. Knicks have no chance in hell of winning this game if the refs are gonna let the Bulls manhandle them on defense.

  11. ruruland

    Chicago does not have the offensive firepower to run this will be close. The lack of foul calls for Melo is pretty hilarious.

  12. ruruland

    JK47:
    This is the worst the team has played all season. No ball movement, no shooting, no defense.

    Over-statement. Chicago making some shots. Defense solid. Knicks issing open shots, no fouls on forays, Ball movement decent against very good defensive team. A couple calls and a couple shots and it’s close.

    This will be a close game.

  13. ruruland

    Melo with 9 shots in the paint and no foul calls. You will never see that from any other star in the game.

  14. Douglas

    Melo is getting clobbered each time he drives into the paint, there’s no way he misses this many bunnies otherwise.

  15. d-mar

    One thing you can count on is the Knicks being able to get stops on the defensive end, the Bulls just aren’t very good offensively. It’ll come down to us making shots – that means you, Felton and Novak!

  16. DRed

    The refs eating their whistles tonight sure hasn’t helped, but we’re playing like shit. Ray Felton, I’m looking at you.

  17. ptmilo

    Prigioni should really be The Pacemaker:

    (1) His proclivity for amusingly unnecessarily turnovers is bizarrely reciprocated by an incredible penchant for picking up low risk steals. It is how I imagine Deion Sanders would play basketball if he were 60. That is NBA Pace-making 101.

    (2) He is almost the oldest-ever rookie

    (3) It opens up an entire menagarie of medical device nicknames for the third of the team with seniority. The trippy pick and roll between Prigioni and Thomas that Woodson calls to keep morale high for the troops watching overseas could be between the “Pacemaker” and the “D-fibrillator.”

  18. Knicks4Eva

    This is the kind of game we need to be able to win. That’s play-off defense, 90s-style defense.

    Of course, they’re fouling, but when the refs let that @#$%@ go we’ve got to adjust.

  19. Thomas B. Post author

    Man this defense is really bad. I guess the team really is getting ready to welcome Stat back.

    Felton needs to stop doing shooting drills with Brewer.

  20. Business Socks

    This is just laughable. I understand the Knicks are playing horrible, but the refs are making this game into an absolute joke.

  21. Knicks4Eva

    The team is whining on offense, giving up on defense.

    We’ve got to show some character if we have championship pretensions.

  22. BigBlueAL

    Love it when Melo cups the ball on his drives, reminds me of Marbury. Actually thats not good then lol.

  23. d-mar

    The Bulls are literally and figuratively beating the crap out of the Knicks tonight, if this was a fight the ref would step in and stop it.

  24. JK47

    This was a wire-to-wire ass kicking. The Knicks have 7 assists for the whole game and haven’t played a lick of defense all night.

    Pretty pathetic effort considering this is a home game.

  25. BigBlueAL

    Yeah dont think a game like tonight where the announcers have no reason whatsoever to talk good about the Knicks is a night to start ripping the local announcers, especially Clyde who has become a legend in the booth for Knick fans despite not necessarily being a good analyst. He has reached Phil Rizzuto status to me lol.

  26. Business Socks

    Horrible game on all facets but you gotta give the Knicks credit. They never quit, I love seeing that fight till the end.

  27. jon abbey

    finally showing a little fight after Chandler loses it, hopefully Thibodeau burns these guys out because otherwise they could be a very tough second round playoff matchup.

    ugh, MIL blows a 7 point lead with 33 seconds to go in BOS, going to OT now.

    not quite dead yet, hit these, Cope…

  28. Business Socks

    As Breen pointed out, Prigs first fouled Butler, and then he traveled. Of all times for a no call.

  29. BigBlueAL

    On a side note, the Bucks-Celtics game has been pretty crazy too but not due to ejections and bad refs.

  30. Douglas

    AnthonyMasonsHair:
    I wish I knew why our two best players were ejected, they might be useful right now.

    You must just be tuning in, because there’s no way after all that’s happened that question could be asked with a straight face.

  31. maxwell_3g

    Douglas: You must just be tuning in, because there’s no way after all that’s happened that question could be asked with a straight face.

    disagree. i have no clue why elo was ejected

  32. hegotgame

    Wow. So i just got back from a shit night out (I’m in nigeria so we’re 6hours ahead) where I got sucker punched in the face. For no reason, by someone i don’t know and have never spoken to. Only to come back and see this shitshow of a 4th quarter. Today was just a lesson in life. Sometimes you get punched in the face and its not fair or logical or explainable. All ur left with is an ice bag, a swollen nose and distinct sense of loss.

    p.s. fuck anonymous angry dude. and fuck these refs.

  33. d-mar

    Guys, the refs were putrid, but either way, the Knicks had their asses handed to them. The Bulls outplayed us in every phase of the game – offensive execution, rebounding, defense, etc. Very tough to watch.

  34. hegotgame

    Also I didn’t see the whole game, but while knicks did play bad to get into the hole they did, the refs DO deserve blame when they ref as horribly as this. When u do tht, u completely destroy the flow of the game. Players cant drive and will get turnovers that shud be fouls, which dramatically alters everything about ur game, guys are forced to settle for more jumpers and ur spacing is now off, making it even easier to defend you which is perfect for a team like the bulls. What annoys me is when ppl say “hey it wasnt the refs, we shot 0 for 100, THATS why”. When in fact, if melo gets punched in the face on a lay up, it should normally be a foul and it wouldnt count as a shot attempt. Instead it turns into missed shot and an opportunity for transition offense for the other team. THAT IS A HUGE impact on a game when it happens as consistently as it did tonight and it wrecks a team. Only magical jump-shooting can overcome that. Unfortunately we didnt have that tonight and its not fair to blame the players for not being able to do that. I’m glad the fans did appreciate their effort though and the standing ovay for coach woody was awesome lol.

  35. Douglas

    hegotgame:
    Also I didn’t see the whole game, but while knicks did play bad to get into the hole they did, the refs DO deserve blame when they ref as horribly as this. When u do tht, u completely destroy the flow of the game. Players cant drive and will get turnovers that shud be fouls, which dramatically alters everything about ur game, guys are forced to settle for more jumpers and ur spacing is now off, making it even easier to defend you which is perfect for a team like the bulls. What annoys me is when ppl say “hey it wasnt the refs, we shot 0 for 100, THATS why”. When in fact, if melo gets punched in the face on a lay up, it should normally be a foul and it wouldnt count as a shot attempt. Instead it turns intomissed shot and an opportunity for transition offense for the other team. THAT IS A HUGE impact on a game when it happens as consistently as it did tonight and it wrecks a team. Only magical jump-shooting can overcome that. Unfortunately we didnt have that tonight and its not fair to blame the players for not being able to do that. I’m glad the fans did appreciate their effort though and the standing ovay for coach woody was awesome lol.

    +1. Of course the Knicks got off to a horrible start, but the refs let the Bulls get away with everything in the first half, then tried to put the genie back in the bottle in the second and dramatically tighten things up. That is a proven recipe for chaos.

  36. KnickfaninNJ

    On an analytical note, isn’t this the second game in a row we lost to Chicago? Maybe we have match up issues. If so they are probably with their bigs, since I note Chandler hardly scored anything. I didnt see the game (I am Christmas shopping), I just saw the score and stats on my phone. Can anyone who saw the game comment on this hypothesis?

  37. d-mar

    Since we’re talking about fouls (or those not called), LeBron James has not been called for a foul in his last 5+ games, or 211 minutes of basketball. Yes, superstars do get preferential treatment from the refs (unless you’re Carmelo Anthony of course)

  38. KnickfaninNJ

    About match ups, my guess is that when The opposing team has two active bigs, in this case Noah and Boozer, the Knicks have trouble because the opponent can bring a good big as help when they run pick and rolls with Felton and Chandler and also Carmelo has a tougher time on defense.

  39. jon abbey

    KnickfaninNJ:
    On an analytical note,isn’t this the second game in a row we lost to Chicago? Maybe we have match up issues.

    we do, but the good news is that Amar’e and Shumpert both had massive games against them last year. of course, the bad news is they are probably still getting Rose back also…

  40. Douglas

    KnickfaninNJ:
    On an analytical note,isn’t this the second game in a row we lost to Chicago? Maybe we have match up issues.If so they are probably with their bigs,since I note Chandler hardly scored anything.I didnt see the game (I am Christmas shopping), I just saw the score and stats on my phone.Can anyone who saw the game comment on this hypothesis?

    It seemed to me the Bulls A) went under the screen each time, daring Felton to shoot and B) were very disciplined at hedging off the pick and roll and clogging up the paint.

  41. massive

    Did anybody else notice the drastic switch in the way the referees called the game? They were extremely loose in the first 2 1/2 quarters, and then got extremely tight midway through the 3rd.

    This game made me hate these Bulls. Especially Joakim Noah.

  42. KnickfaninNJ

    Douglas: It seemed to me the Bulls A) went under the screen each time, daring Felton to shoot and B) were very disciplined at hedging off the pick and roll and clogging up the paint.

    Many thanks for the info.

  43. BigBlueAL

    The Bulls may be a horrible matchup for the Knicks offense but their is no excuse whatsoever for allowing them to score as easily as they did. This loss was as much on the defense as the offense.

  44. ruruland

    The Bulls are the highest effort regular season team in the NBA. there’s no reason to believe they won’t win 50+ games just because they are so high-effort and sound defensively.

    On a night when they make shots, they’re an absolute bitch.

    However, when the playoffs come rolling around, they don’t have an extra gear advantage.

    You don’t want to face the Bulls team with Rose in the playoffs, but the Knicks will beat this team in the post-season if he’s not 100 percent and if New York is healthy.

    Tonight, the Bulls defensive intensity was superior at the start of the game, which likely influenced the lack of calls. At least for awhile.

    But a few things. The Bulls were not scoring on dribble drives. Conversely, Melo was getting to the basket throughout the first half. How many times was he fouled on his 9 shots in the paint in the first half? I’d have to say at least 4 times he was clearly fouled.

    The lack of calls, and the frustration over them, seemed to really energize the Bulls and imbue them with confidence in their jump shots.

    So, it wasn’t just the points the Knicks weren’t scoring because of the physicality the officials were allowing, it was that the Bulls did not have to rely on officials to score because of their hot jump shooting.

    But to be fair, the Knicks were also missing open shots they’ll typically make at a higher percentage.

    I thought that because of all of the open misses, Melo and junior took it upon themselves to create. That’s pretty natural and has gone on throughout both of their careers, as you saw last season with a lot of forced shots from Melo after guys clanked open jumper after open jumper.

    I can assure you that the Knicks are not going to let Chicago jump on them like that again. The Bulls will likely play confidently against this team, but it will be a 48 minute fight until the dynamic of the match-up changes back in the Knicks favor.

  45. ruruland

    The one thing to be disappointed in is the lack of extra defensive effort after the Bulls dictated the style of the game.

    There needs to be a quicker and more efficient conversion of energy into the defense on nights like this. Shumpert is going to help that a lot. Like all great individual on-ball defenders, his intensity is contagious.

    Also, the dynamic of this match-up changes considerably with Amar’e in the line-up. The Bulls cannot simply play 4-5 to start the game, which I feel put the Knicks on their heels.

    There’s no way Amar’e comes off the bench with the way Brewer is killing the first unit right now.

    Overall, a good loss in the sense that there is plenty to learn from.

    You would not see a total implosion last year at the end of the game, which should show how much the expectations have changed and how guys have their pride on the line.

    These losses happen. But the Knicks need to take advantage of them by kicking it up a notch on defense and blocking out their bigger opponents.

  46. ruruland

    KnickfaninNJ:

    The Bulls are one of the few teams that can defend the ball and always help on the pass. They’re still a great defensive team, and they will force you to play to your weaknesses.

    that’s why you have to eliminate your weaknesses. Felton will not shoot this poorly all year. He’s still getting good shots.

    Also, I stand by my statement on Frazier. No disrespect to his legacy or what he means to Knicks fans, he seems like a great guy, but I can’t stand his announcing.

  47. max fisher-cohen

    i love clyde. There are times, sure, he seems burnt out and like he’s not really watching the game and instead just relying in clichés, but he also has good insights other times and, unlike Breen, doesn’t just tow the company line. Especially during the darker days in MSG, Clyde was a breath of fresh air after Breen just kept repeating things like, “The knicks just aren’t making the effort!”

    Breen makes me think of a suburban dad on a 1950s era TV show. he’s so nice and pleasant to listen to that he’s hard to dislike, but he’s also just bland. He’s a better speaker, so it won’t strike you as often that he’s saying the same things over and over just in different ways, but it’s what he does, and I can’t recall him ever saying much insightful.

    This is closer to the Knicks I expected in that they have some serious weaknesses due to their slowness and very systematic style of play. They can’t defend great attacking guards at all, and they struggle against smarter defenses that know how to properly double team Anthony and how to closeout against the Knicks’ shooters — Kidd, Brewer and Novak’s limited offense especially are vulnerable because Kidd and Novak allow you to closeout hard (they struggle to score off the dribble) and Brewer is just a bad shooter.

    Fortunately for New York, the east is just terrible. Howard, Bynum, Granger and Rose out/gone, Miami playing at 60% effort, Boston doing their typical, “How many months until the playoffs?” act. By my estimation, all seven of last year’s other playoff teams are worse, with Brooklyn being the only dramatically improved team.

    It’s also amazing to me how much Melo’s game is transformed when he hits the 3. When he’s on from the perimeter, especially at the 4, he becomes completely unstoppable and is undoubtedly a top 10 franchise player. I hope the hot shooting continues. Looking forward to the inevitable Stoudemire drama as well.

  48. BigBlueAL

    Who will start for the Knicks on Sunday vs the Wolves?? We know for sure Kirilenko will be guarding Melo and I cant imagine the Knicks will allow Melo to cover Love so I would have to think Kurt Thomas will get the start no?? I guess they could start Novak but again who covers Love, Novak or Melo??

  49. BigBlueAL

    I dont think you should expect NBA play-by-play guys to give insightful analysis cause thats not their job. Breen is excellent as a play-by-play man, I actually think he should give less analysis since at times he can be annoying with the lack of effort stuff.

    Basketball is not like baseball where the play-by-play guy should be able to give decent analysis because quite frankly the need for a play-by-play guy in baseball is really not that necessary since its a slow paced game and there is alot of dead time in between plays. There are many local broadcast teams who use ex players as the play-by-play guy and not just to do color and you cant even notice the difference. In basketball its the opposite since their is constant action going on and no real breaks, the need for a play-by-play guy is much more important.

    At least thats the way I see it.

  50. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL:
    Who will start for the Knicks on Sunday vs the Wolves??We know for sure Kirilenko will be guarding Melo and I cant imagine the Knicks will allow Melo to cover Love so I would have to think Kurt Thomas will get the start no??I guess they could start Novak but again who covers Love, Novak or Melo??

    they really need one or more of their big men back, Amar’e, Sheed, Camby, anyone would help against these big teams.

    ruru, you’re definitely right about the Bulls playing consistently harder than anyone in the regular season but you leave out how many minutes Tibs plays his main guys, it seems pretty crazy and is not unconnected to their early playoff exits the last two years.

  51. Douglas

    ruruland: Also, I stand by my statement on Frazier. No disrespect to his legacy or what he means to Knicks fans, he seems like a great guy, but I can’t stand his announcing.

    I enjoy Clyde for his enthusiasm, relative impartiality, and weird love of wordplay. (And also his incredibly daring fashion sense.) He doesn’t break down the game like JVG or Hubie Brown, and that’s OK with me. He truly is the “color” in “color commentator”, not so much an analyst.

  52. Douglas

    jon abbey: ruru, you’re definitely right about the Bulls playing consistently harder than anyone in the regular season but you leave out how many minutes Tibs plays his main guys, it seems pretty crazy and is not unconnected to their early playoff exits the last two years

    It is crazy how Deng was still on the floor with the Bulls up 25 after messing up his shoulder.

  53. Brian Cronin

    Breen is excellent as a play-by-play man, I actually think he should give less analysis since at times he can be annoying with the lack of effort stuff.

    Yeah, agreed. He has a million dollar voice but his “analysis” is all just basically biased views based on what style he personally likes to see played. If you don’t fit into his mold of what an NBA player should be, he will cut you absolutely no slack if you struggle at all. For whatever reason, Melo does not fit into his mold of what an NBA player should be (and yet Derrick Rose does, which is weird to me as Rose and Melo seem pretty similar to me).

  54. jon abbey

    for years, literally every time someone got a T when Breen was calling a game, he would go on a mini-rant about how stupid it was and how one point could be huge in a game, no matter the circumstances, no matter whether the T was justified, no matter the context or flow of the game. it was THCJ-level dumb, thankfully he finally stopped.

Comments are closed.