Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, December 23, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

All I want for Christmas–in addition to the kick ass seats my lovely wife gave me for New York’s visit to DC–is a win.

Your in-game thoughts here. Go New York.

254 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

  1. jon abbey

    pretty nervous about this one, although that is the case for most games (never take anything for granted in the NBA). maybe today is the day our 3 point shooters get back on track, and hopefully Felton/Chandler will abuse Nash/Howard on the pick and roll.

  2. BigBlueAL

    Nothing gets you into the Christmas spirit more than listening to a Justin Bieber/Busta Rhymes collaboration of “Little Drummer Boy” while watching the NBA lol.

  3. jon abbey

    also, it’ll be interesting to watch if Melo is hesitant to drive at Howard after getting injured last meeting doing that.

  4. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    pretty nervous about this one, although that is the case for most games (never take anything for granted in the NBA). maybe today is the day our 3 point shooters get back on track, and hopefully Felton/Chandler will abuse Nash/Howard on the pick and roll.

    I dont care if the Knicks lose today, heck I kinda expect it. I get frustrated as hell when they are at home and get off to horrible starts in games like they did this past week but on the road on Christmas afternoon against a desperate/talented team who needs wins badly is not a recipe for a Knicks win nor is it a game that we should get pissed about if they do lose. Granted if they do lose I hope at least it isnt a blowout lol.

  5. maxwell_3g

    it should be interesting to see what simmons has to say about our squad. hes normally tough on the knicks, but i think some of the press who has been hard on the knicks see something different in this year’s team

  6. Juany8

    I’m kind of glad I’m feeling ill on Christmas, it sucks to be sick but it’s awesome to get an excuse to sit in bed watching basketball all day >:)

  7. jon abbey

    Juany8:
    I’m kind of glad I’m feeling ill on Christmas, it sucks to be sick but it’s awesome to get an excuse to sit in bed watching basketball all day >:)

    it’s too bad they’re making all 10 teams wear these ugly single color uniforms, I am scared about retina damage with the Knicks’ ones. :)

  8. d-mar

    Man the Nets are really just not that good. Their trademark is supposed to be toughness and defense, and every time I checked out that game, Boston was hitting wide open shots. And their offense in the 4th quarter was Wallace going 1 on 5. I’ve said it before, I see them as a 43-45 win team at best.

  9. maxwell_3g

    d-mar:
    Man the Nets are really just not that good. Their trademark is supposed to be toughness and defense, and every time I checked out that game, Boston was hitting wide open shots. And their offense in the 4th quarter was Wallace going 1 on 5. I’ve said it before, I see them as a 43-45 win team at best.

    the fans in NJ are slowly realizing what the people in the “ATL” have known for a while. if joe johnson is one of your 2 max players, it is a problem

  10. Juany8

    maxwell_3g: the fans in NJ are slowly realizing what the people in the “ATL” have known for a while.if joe johnson is one of your 2 max players, it is a problem

    To be fair, the Knicks have gotten literally zero production from a max player this season and are still doing pretty great despite very notable injury issues aside from Amar’e. The problem is that Deron Williams and Brook Lopez aren’t exactly on the same… stratosphere as Chandler and Melo lol

  11. Juany8

    jon abbey: it’s too bad they’re making all 10 teams wear these ugly single color uniforms, I am scared about retina damage with the Knicks’ ones. :)

    My god, my eyes are actually in pain from this. WHAT THE FUCK NBA!

  12. maxwell_3g

    i seriously cant even focus on our players. all i see is orange blurs. cant even see who the player is

  13. Douglas

    maxwell_3g:
    i seriously cant even focus on our players.all i see is orange blurs.cant even see who the player is

    JVG’s right. It’s like watching Syracuse with a fever.

  14. AnonymousODG

    Like a buncha emergency road cones-

    … da heck, how was gasol not called for a loose ball foul?

  15. Douglas

    Would it have killed the NBA to let the Knicks have white numbers and lettering? The guys in the league office shouldn’t be allowed to work while on cocaine.

  16. AnonymousODG

    Gasol n Howard PnR highlight…

    Y’know D’Antoni is desperate when he makes 2 big men play the PnR. For some reason, that desperation makes me uneasy.

  17. AnonymousODG

    When Shump comes back, I demand that MSG do a half hour special on his haircut and the inevitable chopjob they’ll do when he returns to the floor.

  18. Douglas

    AnonymousODG:
    When Shump comes back, I demand that MSG do a half hour special on his haircut and the inevitable chopjob they’ll do when he returns to the floor.

    Imagine donating that flattop to Locks of Love…

  19. maxwell_3g

    Juany8: To be fair, the Knicks have gotten literally zero production from a max player this season and are still doing pretty great despite very notable injury issues aside from Amar’e. The problem is that Deron Williams and Brook Lopez aren’t exactly on the same… stratosphere as Chandler and Melo lol

    i agree, but still, the nets trade for joe johnson was sooo crazy. people here in Atlanta were dancing in the streets

  20. maxwell_3g

    Douglas: Imagine donating that flattop to Locks of Love…

    noooo. its got to stay. shump is 9 months invested into this. shouldnt we at least try it out for 1 game to see how the flat top affects the game?? it think its good for at least 1.5- 2 deflections a game

  21. Douglas

    maxwell_3g: noooo.its got to stay.shump is 9 months invested into this.shouldnt we at least try it out for 1 game to see how the flat top affects the game??it think its good for at least 1.5- 2 deflections a game

    Maybe it’ll help on his closeouts. That’s a good cubic foot’s worth of visual obstruction.

  22. d-mar

    I would think we have a big advantage once the Lakers have to go to their atrocious bench (although D’antoni may play all his starters 45 minutes lol)

  23. johnlocke

    1st quarter observations:
    Melo once again not cooking soup to start
    Ray is not taking bad jumpers, good
    Brewer is getting open jumpers, bad
    D is okay, we need someone to be hot on O, enter Novak?

  24. Douglas

    d-mar:
    I would think we have a big advantage once the Lakers have to go to their atrocious bench (although D’antoni may play all his starters 45 minutes lol)

    I’m not holding my breath on D’Antoni ever going to his bench. I remember those 7-man rotations.

  25. johnlocke

    Usually not a great idea for Camby to shoot a jumper, 2 seconds into the game after being out for a month — Novak on cue though

  26. BigBlueAL

    Melo only gets a 2 min 10 sec break to start the 2nd quarter?? Knicks do have a game tomorrow night as well.

  27. johnlocke

    Not that he could even sniff MJ’s shorts, but he’s been infected by some kind of Space Jam virus… two left hands and two left feet. still waiting for him to do something positive over the last 10 games.

    Douglas:
    Ronnie Brewer smdh

  28. maxwell_3g

    very impressed with camby so far. showing much more than he was before. woody was right to not play him when he wasnt healthy

  29. johnlocke

    Camby almost took out Melo’s knees… wtf camby, not the way to ingratiate yourself in a return (know it was an accident, don’t care)

  30. johnlocke

    Dumb by Melo, why the hell is he treating Ron Artest like he’s a superstar, let him catch the damn ball

  31. Juany8

    Is there a single other star that could be called for 2 questionable fouls IN BACK TO BACK PLAYS?!?!? Melo leads the league in the 2 most subjective fouls in the league, techs and offensive fouls. There is actual statistical evidence that the refs are dribbling all over Lebron’s dick and Melo can’t be called for fouls normally. How the fuck does this happen?

  32. johnlocke

    the first one was a foul on melo, the 2nd one was questionable. Melo needs to know this and play smarter, control what you can control..

    Juany8:
    Is there a single other star that could be called for 2 questionable fouls IN BACK TO BACK PLAYS?!?!? Melo leads the league in the 2 most subjective fouls in the league, techs and offensive fouls. There is actual statistical evidence that the refs are dribbling all over Lebron’s dick and Melo can’t be called for fouls normally. How the fuck does this happen?

  33. johnlocke

    This kind of has that Minnesota game feel…. JR killing it, no one else really having it going…hopefully same result

  34. maxwell_3g

    they call chandler for that bs all the time, and yet noah wasnt called when he shoulder blocked melo, leading to the melo T

  35. maxwell_3g

    Owen:
    Also, my wife no longer likes Nash purely because of his haircut,

    yeah. whats up with that?? he looks like Bieber

  36. BigBlueAL

    d-mar:
    I would let Artest shoot 3?s all day long, hope he keeps firing away

    He is shooting 38% from 3pt range this season and is a career 34% 3pt shooter so he isnt exactly Ronnie Brewer from out there.

  37. johnlocke

    He could have taken it to the basket, but pulled up for a jumper, Dumb.
    Good news is our offense has played like crap, and we’re only down 2.

    BigBlueAL:
    Felton leads the league in nasty crossovers that doesnt lead to a made basket.

  38. JK47

    The threes aren’t falling but the Knicks are playing their game: only 3 turnovers in the half. Gotta just keep grinding.

    Now that the Lakers are healthy they’re a formidable opponent and their lack of depth doesn’t really hurt them. This will be a great win if NYK can pull it out.

  39. d-mar

    BigBlueAL: He is shooting 38% from 3pt range this season and is a career 34% 3pt shooter so he isnt exactly Ronnie Brewer from out there.

    Surprised at those numbers, every time I’ve watched LA this season he’s been throwing up bricks

  40. Juany8

    BigBlueAL: He is shooting 38% from 3pt range this season and is a career 34% 3pt shooter so he isnt exactly Ronnie Brewer from out there.

    Not only that, Artest is actually a good spot up shooter, his numbers just look bad because he takes so many off balance ones (at least in the past few years) I remember reading somewhere that Artest had led the Lakers in corner 3 percentages for 2 years in a row before the lockout, he can make them when they’re in rhythm

  41. AnonymousODG

    Half the Lakers fan are so happy that the team is competitive and playing well now that Nash is back. The other half is wondering just why in Jebus’ name they aren’t winning by at least double figures.

  42. johnlocke

    We won’t win this game if Melo scores 20 pts. We need a big, efficient Melo showing in the 2nd half.

  43. daJudge

    Happy with the effort so far. If we keep up the intensity, and our shots begin to drop a bit, hey, we win. This Knicks team is tough. BTW, and probably just pointing out the obvious, the Lakers are going to be very, very good this year.

  44. BigBlueAL

    Nash and Kidd are so good at passing with their left hand. Seems like a minor thing but its something most PG’s (and most players in general) cant do well which is pass with their opposite hand.

  45. johnlocke

    They’re going to have to win at a 60% clip to not be a #8 seed in the West I think…

    daJudge:
    Happy with the effort so far.If we keep up the intensity, and our shots begin to drop a bit, hey, we win.This Knicks team is tough.BTW, and probably just pointing out the obvious, the Lakers are going to be very, very good this year.

  46. johnlocke

    maybe it’s time felton sits a few games…. he can’t just keep being hurt everytime someone slaps his hands

  47. maxwell_3g

    oh boy. hope this isnt too bad. if felton misses any significant time, alot of people are going to get their wish, but I think they will be shocked with the results

  48. Juany8

    cgreene:
    Forsome reason the pending loss feels painful and like we are regressing quickly

    The regression is mostly guys getting injured or having too much responsibility because of other player’s injuries. Also, the Knicks are regressing from a 60+ win pace, is it all that disappointing if they’re a 55 win 2nd seed with an excellent chance to make the ECF?

  49. BigBlueAL

    Love how Felton re-enters the game after hurting his finger and the first 2 times he touches the ball he shoots and misses.

  50. johnlocke

    so annoying.. and i knew he was going to do it before he did

    BigBlueAL:
    Love how Felton re-enters the game after hurting his finger and the first 2 times he touches the ball he shoots and misses.

  51. AnonymousODG

    Juany8: The regression is mostly guys getting injured or having too much responsibility because of other player’s injuries. Also, the Knicks are regressing from a 60+ win pace, is it all that disappointing if they’re a 55 win 2nd seed with an excellent chance to make the ECF?

    Well put.

  52. Juany8

    BigBlueAL:
    Love how Felton re-enters the game after hurting his finger and the first 2 times he touches the ball he shoots and misses.

    Yea even I have a problem with it, who the fuck does that? It’s not like they were amazing looks, they were early in the clock, and he had options.

  53. Bruno Almeida

    I’d rather see Anthony and JR each shooting 30 shots a game than seeing Felton shoot 12, I just can’t stand him.

    just like the first time, the honeymoon is over really, really soon.

  54. BigBlueAL

    I would love to see Prigs play with this lineup more. His pass first instincts would work better playing with Chandler/Melo/JR/Kidd than the backups Prigs usually plays with.

  55. Bruno Almeida

    isn’t there ANY other PG available out there?

    I mean, Dallas should at least think about trading Collison or Beaubois for Felton, right? shouldn’t we at least explore that?

  56. Bruno Almeida

    maan, I’m LOVING Carmelo’s effort on offense, but the team defense needs to step up.

    and Felton needs to sit.

  57. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    ray for the love of point guarding…stop shooting so much!

    guys, in case you havent noticed. ray is penetrating. when he doesnt take the open floater, it leads to a turnover or a late reset, putting our offense in problems. everyone on the knicks is encouraging felton to continue to shoot, because he needs to. unless you guys want to see a bunch of melo 25 footer with guys draped allover him, felotn needs to continue to try to score

  58. BigBlueAL

    maxwell_3g: guys, in case you havent noticed.ray is penetrating.when he doesnt take the open floater, it leads to a turnover or a late reset, putting our offense in problems.everyone on the knicks is encouraging felton to continue to shoot, because he needs to.unless you guys want to see a bunch of melo 25 footer with guys draped allover him, felotn needs to continue to try to score

    I think Id rather see Melo shooting 25 footers with guys draped all over him lol.

  59. Bruno Almeida

    maxwell_3g: guys, in case you havent noticed.ray is penetrating.when he doesnt take the open floater, it leads to a turnover or a late reset, putting our offense in problems.everyone on the knicks is encouraging felton to continue to shoot, because he needs to.unless you guys want to see a bunch of melo 25 footer with guys draped allover him, felotn needs to continue to try to score

    man, I’d rather see 1 billion 25 footers than this ridiculous Felton performance.

    Raymond Felton is just a bad basketball player, we’ve seen this movie before and I don’t want any part of it.

  60. Robtachi

    I don’t understand how you can overestimate Kobe’s value. Maybe he’s inefficient, but when he wants to score, he scores. There is no way that doesn’t have value.

  61. johnlocke

    no one is complaining about his penetrating, complaining about shots early in the clock and then coming off the bench off a picky injury with Melo and JR red-hot and choosing to shot the first two times he touches the ball … just dumb. His bull-headedness is an asset and a liability…

    maxwell_3g: guys, in case you havent noticed.ray is penetrating.when he doesnt take the open floater, it leads to a turnover or a late reset, putting our offense in problems.everyone on the knicks is encouraging felton to continue to shoot, because he needs to.unless you guys want to see a bunch of melo 25 footer with guys draped allover him, felotn needs to continue to try to score

  62. johnlocke

    Lol. what about when he doesn’t want to score… which is more than half the time.

    Robtachi:
    I don’t understand how you can overestimate Kobe’s value. Maybe he’s inefficient, but when he wants to score, he scores. There is no way that doesn’t have value.

  63. Juany8

    maxwell_3g: guys, in case you havent noticed.ray is penetrating.when he doesnt take the open floater, it leads to a turnover or a late reset, putting our offense in problems.everyone on the knicks is encouraging felton to continue to shoot, because he needs to.unless you guys want to see a bunch of melo 25 footer with guys draped allover him, felotn needs to continue to try to score

    Great post max, although at the very least he should exercise a bit better judgement on some of these, especially since he seems to react to injuries by hopping in instantly and acting like he’s fucking Kobe.

  64. Aspiring Knick

    Upon Kobe missing those free throws, I just created an account here to make the following statement:

    BALL DON’T LIE!!!!!!!!!!!

  65. Bruno Almeida

    nice to see the mic thing from ESPN with Melo telling Felton how to shoot the floater.

    that’s the leadership thing we’ve been waiting to see and it’s encouraging.

  66. maxwell_3g

    that was soo classic on the mic up thing with melo when ray ray acted so sad when he thought melo was sayig not to shoot the floater

  67. johnlocke

    LOL. Chandler didn’t get a whistle on what could have been close to a flagrant, but he needs to keep his cool, he’s one argument away from being thrown out.

    maxwell_3g:
    that was soo classic on the mic up thing with melo when ray ray acted so sad when he thought melo was sayig not to shoot the floater

  68. johnlocke

    Limping b/c of camby…who coincidentally has not smelled one minute of 2nd half basketball

    llcoolbp:
    Why is Carmelo always limping? I have a bad feeling about his knees in the long term.

  69. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    LOL.Chandler didn’t get a whistle on what could have been close to a flagrant, but he needs to keep his cool, he’s one argument away from being thrown out.

    just another knicks game with ridiculous refereeing. ive given up on the refs at this point

  70. BigBlueAL

    llcoolbp:
    Why is Carmelo always limping? I have a bad feeling about his knees in the long term.

    Considering the way he sprained his ankle vs the Lakers last time and the way his knee/ankle got drilled today by Camby its a minor miracle he can even walk right now lol.

  71. llcoolbp

    Juany8: It’s been his ankle the last 2 years no?

    He just seems banged up all the time. I’ve said it before, he’s not a freak of nature like lebron. He’s special, but I just get this bad feeling every time he takes it to the hoop. Maybe I’m projecting because I have torn my acl twice.

  72. BigBlueAL

    Would be rough to lose this game with Melo and Chandler playing as many minutes as they will be playing with a game tomorrow night.

  73. johnlocke

    b/c he hasn’t been as good on D this season as last..

    Static:
    If Chandler is so good on D, how come he can’t get his hands up?

  74. johnlocke

    felton needs to average 10-12 shots per game at most…

    llcoolbp: I’m willing to reevaluate ray after amare has played substantial games and minutes.

    llcoolbp: I’m willing to reevaluate ray after amare has played substantial games and minutes.

  75. maxwell_3g

    Robtachi: THANK YOU. Have we all been sufficiently reacquainted with Ray Felton’s many deficiencies?

    yeah. jeremy lin really proved to be a winning player and continues to do so in houston. and his 3 year contract is completely reasonable too. and the knicks are only 20-7 without him. lin’s NBA credentials include all types of 20-7 stretches. the rockets are like 30-3, right?

  76. maxwell_3g

    i ahte this rule. if you are going to say its now off melo, call a foul on kobe for hitting his arm!!!

  77. JK47

    BigBlueAL:
    Felton should take a 3pter here to tie the game :-)

    He probably will. He’s a pit bull.

    “Felton is a pit bull” is the equivalent of “David Eckstein is gritty.”

  78. johnlocke

    that’s not even funny… if melo shoots and misses i’ll be ok, if raymond does, even if open, I’ll be so pissed!

    BigBlueAL:
    Felton should take a 3pter here to tie the game :-)

  79. johnlocke

    as long as ray didn’t shoot a pull up 3 off the dribble, i’d be good.

    AnonymousODG:
    Bewildered by Woodson calling for a 3 ball off the inbounds with 45 sec.

    AnonymousODG:
    Bewildered by Woodson calling for a 3 ball off the inbounds with 45 sec.

  80. jon abbey

    honestly no team deserves a win with uniforms like that. let’s bury these in the back of the closet forever, and regroup for the next one.

  81. AnonymousODG

    Awful mental meltdown by Woodson there. Sick to my stomach. By far, the worst play he called this year in final game minute time.

  82. maxwell_3g

    jon abbey:
    honestly no team deserves a win with uniforms like that. let’s bury these in the back of the closet forever, and regroup for the next one.

    agreed, but the lakers unis suck too

  83. jon abbey

    somehow Kidd has morphed into last season’s Landry Fields when it comes to shooting, WTF with passing up that wide open 3 late for that awful pass?

  84. BigBlueAL

    Minutes played today: Melo 43. Chandler 40. Felton 36. Kidd 34. JR 37. Good thing they dont have a game tomorrow….

  85. JK47

    Chandler sucked, Felton sucked, Melo and JR played their typical games and nobody else really did anything of note. Going 9-16 from the free throw line is also not going to win you lots of games.

    It was encouraging, though, to see 8 reasonably life-like minutes from the corpse of Camby.

  86. BigBlueAL

    16 pts in the 4th quarter for the Knicks. Wasnt a good time to have their worst 4th quarter of the season offensively.

  87. jon abbey

    massive:
    5 for 19 and 6 assists, but zero turnovers makes it okay lol.

    it didn’t help that Howard wasn’t allowing Chandler anywhere near the basket on those boxouts, there was at least one textbook Kobe assist at 74-69.

  88. Hubert Davis

    Are we sure Prigioni & Felton’s roles shouldn’t be reversed?

    On the plus side, nice to see Camby do what we got him to do.

    Terrible job not getting Melo the ball after MWP fouled out.

  89. Static

    A couple of things>

    Novak is useless against teams that play d, I’d rather see Copeland

    Chandler played terrible today, or really he just can’t do what he does against Howard

    And Felton….ugh. Maybe it’s time to see what Prigioni can do …

  90. massive

    Most of Raymond Felton’s misses were open shots or that stupid floater he enjoys taking. I’m really getting sick of his poor shooting.

    And Kidd should have never passed out of that open 3. That killed us, too.

  91. JK47

    After today’s crapfest, Felton’s TS% is down to .460. He has 443 points on 460 FGA.

    I don’t care how low his turnovers are, I’m sick of starting every single game with a 6-18 shooting performance baked into the final stat line.

  92. Thomas B. Post author

    Lin is not the answer. He is a high turnover player who does not produce when paired with a high usage player like Melo. What we need is a great backcourt defender. jon abbey has said this all year, and I agree with him. A number of things will change for the better once Shump is playing again. Shumpert would have made life very difficult for Nash.

    I do wish Felton would play slightly better if only so we could focus on why Brewer has been so awful for the past 10 games.

  93. Tony Pena

    JK47:

    It was encouraging, though, to see 8 reasonably life-like minutes from the corpse of Camby.

    Thought he guarded PnR much better than TC

  94. JK47

    Well, we were still in it, even with the highly motivated Lakers at full strength, Kobe hitting all kinds of crazy shots and Tyson Chandler playing like a flu-addled Jon Koncak.

  95. Static

    I don’t see Shump as a defensive savior at all right now. If you’ve ever really done your knee, you know that it takes a long time to come back, if you ever do.

  96. DRed

    Thomas B.:

    I do wish Felton would play slightly better if only so we could focus on why Brewer has been so awful for the past 10 games.

    Brewer has sucked lately, but he was 0-3 in 8 minutes. Ray-Ray was 5-19 in 36 minutes. Ronnie Brewer sure isnt’ helping, but he’s not the problem.

  97. DRed

    Overall, though, losing to the full strength Lakers in LA is not that big of a deal. With Nash and Gasol back the Lakers should be a very good team. Expect to see a bunch of articles about how they’re adapting to D’Antoni’s system, but it’s really about them getting all their good players on the court again.

  98. Static

    You know when I see Nash play, and how much better he makes any team, I mean how many pg’s were ever that good over a long period? Kidd maybe was close, Stockton, Tiny Archibald maybe ?

  99. JK47

    Static:
    I don’t see Shump as a defensive savior at all right now. If you’ve ever really done your knee, you know that it takes a long time to come back, if you ever do.

    Adrian Peterson says hai.

  100. daJudge

    Tough loss. Felton is Felton. He’s a decent 1 and is very tough. No more, no less. Bottom line, Lakers are good now, Chandler was off by a lot, he bobbled about 7 passes. Terrible free throw shooting. Felton, tough, but off and not smart. You know what, we need a few new guys. They’re coming.

  101. ethsurken

    This year Felton is taking 17.5 shots per 36 minutes with .460 TS%. That’s actively losing games. That’s 5 more shots per 36 minutes than he has averaged for his career. That’s just not acceptable. I’d rather have someone who provides nothing rather than shoot this team out of games. Maybe when Amar’e comes back Felton will start shooting less, but until then I’d rather see Prigoni. I think the ideal point guard would be someone who can run the offense, make an open three, and play decent defense and doesn’t try to do much else. The ball shouldn’t be in Felton’s hands at the end of the games. JR and Melo should be the obvious ball handlers.

  102. d-mar

    Our entire offense lately has been Melo and JR and the occasional Tyson put back. Not a recipe for long term success.

    Hurry back STAT.

  103. flossy

    ethsurken:
    This year Felton is taking 17.5 shots per 36 minutes with .460 TS%. That’s actively losing games. That’s 5 more shots per 36 minutes than he has averaged for his career. That’s just not acceptable. I’d rather have someone who provides nothing rather than shoot this team out of games. Maybe when Amar’e comes back Felton will start shooting less, but until then I’d rather see Prigoni. I think the ideal point guard would be someone who can run the offense, make an open three, and play decent defense and doesn’t try to do much else. The ball shouldn’t be in Felton’s hands at the end of the games. JR and Melo should be the obvious ball handlers.

    As I’ve mentioned before, the only PGs shooting more than Raymond Felton this year are Westbrook and Irving. Just think about that for a minute and try to hold back the years.

  104. flossy

    For all the talk about D’Antoni being inflexible and not adjusting, we sure haven’t ween Woodson tinker with the spread pick and roll attack that is getting shut down hard recently. Teams have figured it out. Stick with Chandler on the dive, invite Felton to do his usual 6-18 nonsense and hope Carmelo doesn’t beat you all by himself. What happened to featuring Melo in the post? Don’t we have a few great shooters who could run off curls? Or really *anything* other than giving Felton the green light to serve up brick after brick out of the high PnR?? Honestly, Knicks fans would HATE Felton by now if Chandler weren’t around to make him look respectable (sort of like this afternoon…). I’m sick of hearing about how much heart he has–it’s the same as hearing all about the great personality of the total dog you ended up taking out to dinner on a blind date.

    At least we’ll be getting Amare back soon, hopefully he takes almost all of Novak/Brewer/Kurt’s minutes and a good half of the FGA that have been going to Felton. It’s almost nice for Amare in a way, he gets to come back now that it’s crystal clear how badly the team needs him, unlike at the beginning of the year when most fans were ready to send him to the glue factory.

  105. BigBlueAL

    Im not someone who rips Felton alot (although when he has horrible shooting games like today I usually point them out) because I do believe for the most part he isnt forcing shots and is taking good shots for the most part. Even today although I was really getting frustrated with him (just read the game thread for evidence) he only took a couple of bad shots to be honest.

    The only thing we can hope for is that his hands really are affecting his shot and eventually if he keeps getting these open looks he will start making them again at a reasonable level like he did earlier in the season. BUT when he is clearly struggling he really needs to cut down the FGA but then again the ball needs to be out of his hands for that to happen so its partly Woodson’s fault too since he can/should control that.

  106. Will the Thrill

    At what point is an injured Felton’s semi-open midrange jumper not considered a “good shot”? I mean, he has proven in recent games that he doesn’t make them at a clip near what anyone would want from a “good shot”. My point is that the fact that he is open (or kind of open) doesn’t make these shots good shots to take, at least not until his hands are feeling better. Would Chandler shooting these same open shots be considered good? No, even though I’m willing to bet Chandler could convert around the same percentage Felton has converted on these shots recently. There is a reason defenses give Felton these shots, just as there is a reason teams leave Rondo open, but Rondo knows that these shots would not be converted at a high enough rate to actually help his team. If Felton is injured, he needs to recognize this, and if he is slumping, then he just really sucks at shooting and doesn’t want to believe it.

  107. Hubert Davis

    It should at least be conceivable that Prigioni can close a game out instead of Felton when Ray is shooting us out of a game. The most frustrating thing is he comes down and uses up an entire possession himself, either w a quick shot or by just holding the ball the entire time and not passing. That is unacceptable and should get you benched.
    Is Woodson willing to do that? If not, this will never stop.

  108. Juany8

    Will the Thrill:
    At what point is an injured Felton’s semi-open midrange jumper not considered a “good shot”? I mean, he has proven in recent games that he doesn’t make them at a clip near what anyone would want from a “good shot”. My point is that the fact that he is open (or kind of open) doesn’t make these shots good shots to take, at least not until his hands are feeling better.Would Chandler shooting these same open shots be considered good? No, even though I’m willing to bet Chandler could convert around the same percentage Felton has converted on these shots recently. There is a reason defenses give Felton these shots, just as there is a reason teams leave Rondo open, but Rondo knows that these shots would not be converted at a high enough rate to actually help his team.If Felton is injured, he needs to recognize this, and if he is slumping, then he just really sucks at shooting and doesn’t want to believe it.

    Good thing Felton is the leading minutes getter on a 20-8 team (59 win pace) while Rondo hadn’t led a team to a top 10 offensive rating since 08-09, when he didn’t make the all star team because he wasn’t that good. Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson made it over him by the way. I guess having 3 other hall of famers on your team just isn’t enough firepower…..

  109. flossy

    In the Knicks defense, Dwight Howard, when healthy and motivated (as it seemed he was today) is still an absolute monster on defense. He completely took over the game in the 2nd half. If he starts doing that consistently and gets accustomed to getting spoon-fed dunks off the PnR with Nash… it could be a long season for the rest of the league once that squad gets rolling.

    If they all stay healthy, I can envision a slowed-down but otherwise souped-up SSOL team, with Nash as an old man’s Nash, Kobe as a rich man’s Joe Johnson, Dwight as a rich man’s Amar’e and Gasol as an (insanely) rich man’s Boris Diaw (and MWP as a poor man’s Marion).

  110. yellowboy90

    Well if the players can tell Melo he needs to sit out and get healthy then everyone should do the same to Felton. Get him healthy and start Prigs or even Kidd it just Means starting at the 3.

  111. yellowboy90

    I always though the the countdown to Slam Dunk contest was just a little joke but not because James White doesn’t have the rep but because I didn’t think he was really a known commodity. Well it looks like he is in. Get ready for the two handed windmill free throw line dunk. lol.

  112. ruruland

    Flossy:

    It’s difficult to do much else on offense when you only have 3 guys who can create their own shot, one who is injured.

    This is what happens when you don’t want 7/9 players trying to initiate offense (or those players are incapable)

    Brewer, Kidd, Thomas, Chandler, Novak have to play off great spacing.

    Look at every other team that’s played today.

    If Kobe are Nash aren’t creating, Howard, Gasol, World Peace and even Meeks are capable of initiating offense.

    If Brooklyn isn’t getting much out of Johnson and Williams, they’ve got Lopez on the block,Blatche who can post and iso, and Brooks who’s a great isolation player off the bench. C.J. Watson can get open shots for teammates.

    Boston has 6 legitimate shot creators.

    Miami has 4-5.

    OKC has 3.

    Houston has 4.

    Amar’e’s importance can’t be understated.

  113. ruruland

    flossy:
    In the Knicks defense, Dwight Howard, when healthy and motivated (as it seemed he was today) is still an absolute monster on defense.He completely took over the game in the 2nd half.If he starts doing that consistently and gets accustomed to getting spoon-fed dunks off the PnR with Nash… it could be a long season for the rest of the league once that squad gets rolling.

    If they all stay healthy, I can envision a slowed-down but otherwise souped-up SSOL team, with Nash as an old man’s Nash, Kobe as a rich man’s Joe Johnson, Dwight as a rich man’s Amar’e and Gasol as an (insanely) rich man’s Boris Diaw (and MWP as a poor man’s Marion).

    Thank God the Knicks aren’t in the west.

    If Lin and Asik play like this, Houston can do damage.

    Lin is looking better every game.

  114. ruruland

    JC Knickfan:
    Should have match Lin offer sheet and cut Prigs. I take Lin/Felton any day over Felton/Prigs

    He’s looking great, more and more like he could’ve been the get over piece. I think it would have taken longer NY, but Kidd would have helped.

    Felton is not this bad, and I still think he’s a premier penetrator. He’ll get healthy.

    Still have to find one this off-season. there are plenty of solid pnr point guards in the draft.

    Remember, Denver traded up to 18 to get Lawson after making the conference finals. They dealt a future 1st.

  115. JK47

    He’s looking great, more and more like he could’ve been the get over piece. I think it would have taken longer NY, but Kidd would have helped.

    This is why I howled in agony when the Knicks didn’t match Lin, and howled even louder when they signed Felton. 20 points, 11 assists, 2 turnovers for Lin tonight on 12 FGA.

    It looked like it was going to work out for NYK for about 20 games, but that’s all it took for the wheels to fall off the Ray Felton wagon. There’s only so much longer the “Felton is a better fit” crap is going to fly.

  116. StatsTeacher

    and he was + 33 as they hung 120 on the Bulls at home w/o their starting 4 (who is not that good).

    Felton has vanished after a really good start. Wonder if he’s gonna totally meltdown or right this thing.

    yellowboy90 — EVERYONE on the Kings is available

  117. ruruland

    Amar’e potential impact on offense.

    13 fga, 6 fta 32 mpg (rough estimation based on per 36 averages last two years)

    16 total shot attempts at .570 TS (will likely be considerably higher in this offense with reduced usage) = 19 pts a game.

    Shots added (vs o rebound% of minutes he’s likely to replace)= 1-1.5 -1 turnover = 0 -.5

    Rough estimate of shots (offensive attempts) taken away from teammates:

    Felton=4 (3.6 pts at .470 ts)

    Melo=2.5-3 (3pts at 590 ts)

    Smith=2 (2 pts at .500 ts)

    Chandler =1 (1.4 pts at 730 ts)

    Brewer=2 (.9 pts at .480 ts)

    Novak=1 (1.2pts at .600 ts)

    Kidd=1 (1.2 pts at 600 ts)

    Thomas=1 (1pt at .500 ts)

    15 shot attempts at 13.8 pts.

    18.8-12.8=5pts extra offensive rebound negated by extra turnover.

    Could Amar’e add 5 points per game to the offense?

    Yes. And I have to think that the shots he’s going to take away from teammates will be some of the lower efficiency variety.

    Also, I venture to guess that while the Knicks won’t improve from an efg % perspective (though it’s possible with his ability to contest shots inside) nor will he improve teams steal %, he’ll definitely help rebounding.

    Melo’s defensive reb % should go up with Amar’e because Melo’s job will be to grab rebounds and not block out larger opponents.

    A Kidd, Melo, Amar’e, Chandler/Camby should be a great rebounding lineup.

  118. flossy

    If Raymond Felton keeps this up, he’ll join a very small club of players who have played more than 2000 minutes* in a season and taken more than 17 FGA/36 while shooting less than 2 FTA/36. Last time it was accomplished was by Antoine Walker in ’02 at the very height (or nadir?) of his unconscionable chuckery. So make of that what you will.

    *Assuming he isn’t traded or murdered

  119. StatsTeacher

    Interesting. Stats from last year suggested that Melo/Chandler and Amar’e cannot be on the court at the same time — they were consistently outscored. Still, I think the go to lineup is Kidd, Melo, Amar’e Chandler and JR — that’ll be the best 4 players anyway.

  120. ruruland

    I still think Felton is a better pnr fit with both Amar’e and Chandler’s pnr scoring games…. We did not see a single lob last year with Chandler in the pnr…. We saw more turnovers and lower Chandler usage because of the way Lin works off screens.

    With Amar’e out, the Knicks have asked Felton to be their third scorer, and that’s not the reason the Knicks signed him.

    We’re seeing his weaknesses magnified and compounded by injury.

    We all felt that this would be a situation where his usage would go down and his efficiency up.

    Much of Felton’s shooting woes are being driven by hand injuries — let’s not pretend otherwise — many of the shots he takes are really good, clean looks.

    With Amar’e back to reduce the need for Felton to take those behind-the-screen jumpers and contested off-dribble jumpers (Amar’e off curls and flashing off pnr, side pnr as well as post-ups and isos plus higher usage in high pnr)

    I could see 3-4 fewer shots per 36 minute for Felton. And eventually that should result in higher than demonstrated efficiency.

    Still, Lin is playing like the many of us thought he was capable (though unsure if his finishing was fluky)– and he’s finishing again.

    While I think it would take longer for Lin to work with other high-usage players, there’s no question that the guy who’s played the last couple weeks would be a significant asset.

  121. ruruland

    StatsTeacher:
    Interesting.Stats from last year suggested that Melo/Chandler and Amar’e cannot be on the court at the same time —they were consistently outscored.Still, I think the go to lineup is Kidd, Melo, Amar’e Chandler and JR — that’ll be the best 4 players anyway.

    Actually, the two most heavily used lineups last year featured Amar’e, Chandler and Melo and were +3.5 and +2.6

    When you throw Lin into the Amar’e/Chandler/Melo lineups, the Knicks were very good.

    Felton and Kidd are going to make Amar’e/Chandler/Melo work really, really well.

  122. StatsTeacher

    “Felton and Kidd are going to make Amar’e/Chandler/Melo work really, really well.”

    That’s the crux right there. I am a bit skeptical. Wanna see it on the court. . . . . . . . .

  123. Juany8

    Are people still talking about Lin, the same guy who can’t shoot 3’s at all (he’s had 1 game this entire season where he has made more than 2 3’s) and has no mid range game? What makes anyone think Lin would do any better against the coverages the Knicks have been seeing than Felton? Maybe Derrick Rose could get to the rim against this type of coverage, but that’s basically it. If you want to replace Felton, at least throw out someone that can shoot and defend. Replacing one point guard with a bad TS% with another point guard with a better, but still very shitty TS% isn’t the answer. Let’s not ignore that Lin got benched for Toney Douglas at the end of games because of his defense and lack of spacing. If you think Felton is being given space to shoot…..

  124. knicknyk

    Lin Defensive stats
    Felton Defensive stats
    *numbers need to be updated to include the last two games* I am to lazy to do it & don’t know how to copy & paste links.

    Overall: 0.79 ppp ranked 85th in the NBA FG% 37.4 3FG% 32.2
    Overall 0.83ppp FG% ranked 130th in the NBA FG% 38 3FG% 29.3

    Isolation 0.69 ppp ranked 36th FG % 41.7 3FG% 38.5
    Isolation 0.89PPP ranked 84th FG% 41.7 3FG% N/A

    PNR Ball handler 0.71ppp ranked 44th FG% 37.9% 3FG% 16.7%
    PNR Ball Handler 0.83 ppp ranked 98th FG% 42.4% 3FG% 26.7%

    Spot up 0.99 ppp ranked 151st FG% 36.5% 3FG% 42
    Spot up 0.92ppp ranked 97th FG% 35.1 3FG% 32.7

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