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Thursday, April 24, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat

We are really going to need a great game from Carmelo Anthony. I hope he is able to play.
Your in-game thoughts here.
Go New York, Go New York Go!

UPDATE: No Melo tonight. Get ready for fifty-odd shots from Ray Felton and J.R.!

331 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks @ Heat

  1. johnlocke

    Yup… just hope he isn’t out too long. San Antonio’s backups kept it close with the Heat…maybe we can too w/o Melo? Are we can just have the best player on our team – Chandler – just shoot more and take over =)

    BigBlueAL:
    Melo is out :-(

  2. BigBlueAL

    johnlocke:
    Yup… just hope he isn’t out too long. San Antonio’s backups kept it close with the Heat…maybe we can too w/o Melo? Are we can just have the best player on our team – Chandler – just shoot more and take over =)

    Have a feeling Heat are out to make a statement tonight. All their players who were questionable for tonight (Battier/Chalmers/Haslem/Cole) are all playing from what Ive read. Game might get ugly for the Knicks.

  3. johnlocke

    LOL: “With Carmelo Anthony they were gonna lose, without him, they have no chance, they should just head back to NY now” – Charles Barkley

    d-mar:
    Looking forward to hearing Barkley’s fair and objective commentary on the Knicks

  4. johnlocke

    Starting lineup should be: Felton, Kidd, Brewer, Novak, Chandler

    We can’t have brewer, thomas and chandler to start the game against a hard trapping defense.

  5. johnlocke

    Oh and I want to see Copeland get some burn… over Thomas or even Wallace if Cope is playing well.

  6. johnlocke

    HAHA! I Just predicted Charles Barkley…

    johnlocke:
    LOL: “With Carmelo Anthony they were gonna lose, without him, they have no chance, they should just head back to NY now” – Charles Barkley

  7. DRed

    I think we’ve got a chance because Wade is starting to lose his ath-a-letic ability.

    You guys are nuts-Barkley is awesome

  8. d-mar

    Probably a good idea to keep Melo out; most likely they were going to lose anyway. Let the finger heal and have him ready for the Bulls on Saturday.

  9. cgreene

    I have a clear understanding of why Stern was so pissed now. This is a letdown. Even though it’s obviously legit. To have a team purposefully take the air out of what should be a marquee mid season game was definitely a “disservice to the fans”. Period.

    Barkley is not going to say anything good about the Knicks until they win a game against the Heat to tie the series 1-1 in the ECF. I, for one, can’t wait for the day that he and Reggie Miller have to talk about how good the Knicks are.

    Some players would play tonight. That’s a bit of a disappointment on Melo.

  10. d-mar

    cgreene:
    I have a clear understanding of why Stern was so pissed now.This is a letdown.Even though it’s obviously legit.To have a team purposefully take the air out of what should be a marquee mid season game was definitely a “disservice to the fans”.Period.

    Barkley is not going to say anything good about the Knicks until they win a game against the Heat to tie the series 1-1 in the ECF.I, for one, can’t wait for the day that he and Reggie Miller have to talk about how good the Knicks are.

    Some players would play tonight.That’s a bit of a disappointment on Melo.

    You can’t compare this to the Spurs situation, Popovich just sent those guys home even though they were fine to play

  11. DRed

    Losing Melo sucks, but we’re playing a team that lost to the Wizards this week, that is about to hand serious minutes to Moochie fucking Norris, and who we blew off the floor in the garden.

  12. cgreene

    It’s now getting the point in the season where we need another signature win against an elite team.

  13. Juany8

    Barkley has a very, very clear agenda on the Knicks, but in general he’s a pretty smart analyst. He talked about a player increasing his points per game without actually getting better and everything haha

  14. BigBlueAL

    Its another stupid NBA schedule quirk where a TNT game is being played by a team on a back-to-back on the road against a team at home who isnt playing a back-to-back.

    Heat for the 2nd week in a row thanks to the schedule have a big advantage at home on a TNT game.

  15. cgreene

    d-mar: You can’t compare this to the Spurs situation, Popovich just sent those guys home even though they were fine to play

    That’s exactly what I mean. I am disappointed and this is a completely legitimate reason for Melo to miss the game. Not blaming him or Knicks (although, as I said, some players would play. But that’s on him not a disservice to the league). What this did for me as a fan who was excited to see this game was draw a contrast for just how egregious it was what Pop did.

  16. Nick C.

    I just can’t wait for the “see I told you” vs. the “it’s just one game- the Heat” arguments. Go Knicks!

  17. DRed

    Juany8:
    Barkley has a very, very clear agenda on the Knicks, but in general he’s a pretty smart analyst. He talked about a player increasing his points per game without actually getting better and everything haha

    Chuck loves trolling Knicks fans. He’s probably still sore from the time Oakman slapped him in the mouth.

  18. d-mar

    DRed: Chuck loves trolling Knicks fans.He’s probably still sore from the time Oakman slapped him in the mouth.

    Or from the time Mark Jackson and Co. brought brooms onto the court after sweeping the Sixers

  19. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    for the record i hate this starting lineup… Novak would have been better than thomas

    i only assume that thomas has to go through a structured 2 hour stretching regimen to play, and therefore that is why he starts and cant play any time afterwards

  20. Nick C.

    DRed: Chuck loves trolling Knicks fans.He’s probably still sore from the time Oakman slapped him in the mouth.

    and the broom sweep in the playoffs

  21. maxwell_3g

    ohhhh boy. we are going to have to see this self-indulgent tone deaf lebron commercial time and time again tonight. im bracing myself

  22. maxwell_3g

    i hatethe continuation rule there. if you tackle lebron, you get a flagrant (see fisher in the finals) and if you just normally foul him, its an and 1

  23. Juany8

    Would be so nice to win tonight. I think Woodson should just try to inspire the shit out of Sheed and try to bring back a vintage, 2004 performance out of him. If that happens, Sheed should get an hour alone for a news conference

  24. Owen

    Although that was really really a nice crossover.

    Meant to post earlier when he threw up that airball, then internet crapped out….

  25. maxwell_3g

    how the f do the refs call the blocking foul on jr and miss joel anthony hacking jr on the layup??? these refs baffle me

  26. johnlocke

    JR has to finish that layup or get fouled…. so bad at drive and finishing for such an athletic guy

  27. Juany8

    maxwell_3g:
    unbelievable.if i got the lebron treatment from the refs, i think i could be pretty good too

    Better yet, imagine if Melo got the Lebron teammate. He’d approach Dwight Howard levels on free throws…

  28. maxwell_3g

    that was a nice set play for the end of the quarter. woody??? were you paying attention? not everything needs to be melo wasting away the clock then pump faking and shooting up a fallway 20 footer.

  29. DS

    DRed: Getting physical with LeBron doesn’t work. He’s a fucking tank.

    Agree, but do what you need to put him on the line!!

  30. johnlocke

    Yeh, they’re not gonna let Chandler roll to the rim, so it may not. They’ll dare us to shoot from the outside

    JK47:
    Felton has 8 FGA and 1 assist.

    Let’s hope that ratio flattens out.

  31. rohank

    Not bad so far – the offense seems to be holding together.

    Is this Thunderstruck thing for real? Is this a real movie?

  32. Nick C.

    Nice drive by Prigioni sorta off a Tyson screen. It could have been a coincidence that Tyson came in and the play was no longer pass it around the perimeter.

  33. johnlocke

    great question. dumb – he wants us to do that.
    other thoughts — novak needs to start making open threes.

    maxwell_3g:
    why are we double teaming lebron at the 3 point line???

  34. johnlocke

    Kidd has made the most consecutive mistakes all season (cross court pass, gives up layup, fouls Wade, fouls Wade again) … wake the hell up Kidd!

  35. maxwell_3g

    am i the only one that prays that as d wade gets old and decrepid, younger players step on his throat repeatedly just for being a douche

  36. Brian Cronin

    No chance LeBron lets the Heat lose this game I fear.

    It will be tough, but I think they can still win it. This is really Felton’s dream, though. They need him to shoot a lot.

  37. maxwell_3g

    im not just basing this on tonight, but sometimes i think we might be better to give it to felton on last shot situations, with everyone spotting up and melo ready to catch in score. hes a better decision maker in these situtions

  38. johnlocke

    and imagine if JR actually learns how to play well again

    Brian Cronin: It will be tough, but I think they can still win it. This is really Felton’s dream, though. They need him to shoot a lot.

  39. johnlocke

    Felt that way in Dallas, given that we were dominating them in the PnR all game.

    maxwell_3g:
    im not just basing this on tonight, but sometimes i think we might be better to give it to felton on last shot situations, with everyone spotting up and melo ready to catch in score.hes a better decision maker in these situtions

  40. massive

    I think the Knicks can win tonight. We just need JR Smith to hit a couple jumpers and for LeBron James to not take us seriously lol.

  41. JK47

    Only 3 turnovers for NYK in the first half.

    Last year the Heat were a real ball-hawking team, but this year they’ve really slacked off as far as forcing turnovers.

  42. Owen

    HA! love that sequence with Kenny talking about how much money Barkely lost due to techs and choking down a comment about his gambling…..

  43. DRed

    Man, LeBron has 18 points on 7 shots, 5 rebounds, and 7 assists. And he did it all in the flow of the offense. Damn that boy good.

  44. lavor postell

    Lebron is nasty and definitely the BPITW, but the more I watch Miami I think this team can be got if you have the correct personnel. The Knicks and Memphis have demonstrated that if you can pound it inside on them effectively they really can’t stop you. The amount of dribble penetration they give up is really wild.

  45. johnlocke

    True. But I’d expect half time adjustments. They”ll trap the PnR more aggressively and not allow Felton to go off for 18 in the 2nd half for sure. They’ll should also just leave JR wide open as I doubt it would make a difference…so hot and cold.

    lavor postell:
    Lebron is nasty and definitely the BPITW, but the more I watch Miami I think this team can be got if you have the correct personnel.The Knicks and Memphis have demonstrated that if you can pound it inside on them effectively they really can’t stop you.The amount of dribble penetration they give up is really wild.

  46. DRed

    Yeah, the rest of the Heat aren’t playing that well, but holy shit Lebron is amazing. That line is unbelievable.

  47. lavor postell

    Would anybody stand a chance against OKC if they hadn’t rescinded the Tyson Chandler trade 2 years ago?

  48. JK47

    The Heat do have a lot of guys that seem kind of redundant. There’s only so many one-dimensional, no-defense playing perimeter shooters you can carry on the roster without it hurting your defense. The Heat were a nasty defensive team last year; this year they’re pretty pedestrian on that end.

  49. jp82

    Live by the three.

    How long can this last though? We’re already seeing JR’s 3 point shooting regress to the mean. Kidd, Felton, and Melo have all been shooting well above their career norms. The offense won’t look so rosy without all the long range shots falling.

    I’ll take it for now though. Mostly they take clean looks.

  50. Thomas B. Post author

    lavor postell:
    Would anybody stand a chance against OKC if they hadn’t rescinded the Tyson Chandler trade 2 years ago?

    Good point. They could be working on a three-peat right now.

  51. johnlocke

    JR has regressed to the bottom of the ocean…not a mean

    jp82:
    Live by the three.

    How long can this last though? We’re already seeing JR’s 3 point shooting regress to the mean. Kidd, Felton, and Melo have all been shooting well above their career norms. The offense won’t look so rosy without all the long range shots falling.

    I’ll take it for now though. Mostly they take clean looks.

  52. cgreene

    One other thing about the Heat’s D. This is obviously some level of wishful thinking but defense is not something that you just turn on and become a great defensive team in the playoffs after playing 82 games of mediocre D. Defense is an identity that takes root throughout the season.

  53. Thomas B. Post author

    jp82:
    Live by the three.

    We’re already seeing JR’s 3 point shooting regress to the mean.

    No, he isn’t regressing to the mean, he is crashing into it like he has Jason Kidd behind the wheel after a night on the town.

  54. johnlocke

    he’s made good use of his minutes…and is good defensively

    maxwell_3g:
    am i worng, or has james white looked serviceable plus some for the last week?

  55. Thomas B. Post author

    DRed:
    You can tell how badly Steve Kerr wants to be out there bombing with us

    There is no room for Kerr out there. Damn this is nice.

  56. BigBlueAL

    Im trying to forget the memories of blowing a 20 pt lead in Miami in 2000 with Alonzo Mourning being out.

  57. BigBlueAL

    llcoolbp:
    Man. I just caught up. Please let them win this. Another good lesson or melo and stat as they with this.

    I think we are beyond the meme about Melo needing to learn the virtue of passing and ball movement.

  58. yellowboy90

    ok everyone who caught up with dvr maybe we need to rewind it back again to not jinx the knicks. lol.

  59. Owen

    not sure about that call either

    Jr smith may not have earned the benefit of the doubt from the refs but he certainly isnt getting it tonight….

  60. maxwell_3g

    credit grunfield. our offensive strategy and personnel aimed at running that offense is making up for a ton of athletic deficiency(see prigs laying one up from his ankles while all help defenders are afraid to leave their men at the 3 point line)

  61. massive

    The Heat gave up 90 points through 3 quarters to a team that does not have it’s #1 scoring option. I don’t care for the “Miami doesn’t care enough to play defense” argument anymore; I think they just plain old suck on that end now.

  62. lavor postell

    Honestly if the officiating was even mildly fair we’d be up by 20 right now. That last call on Rasheed was not a foul.

  63. Nick C.

    It ended poorly but up 10 after three is still a good thing. We all can remember when the third quarter used to be the place where close games against good teams went to die.

  64. johnlocke

    Again, Lebron James gets ALL the calls

    lavor postell:
    Honestly if the officiating was even mildly fair we’d be up by 20 right now.That last call on Rasheed was not a foul.

  65. Unreason

    This is so fun. Knicks don’t look like they’re going to loose composure under waves of Heat intensity.

  66. Thomas B. Post author

    Owen:
    we need a nickname for prigioni

    that was awesome

    Do you remember how the song “Queens Bridge” by MC Shan opens?
    How about instead of “The Bridge”, we say “The Prig” to that beat? It’s classic and it’s New York.

    The Prig, The Prig, The Prig.

  67. maxwell_3g

    that may have been the best 3 minutes of d the knicks have played since van gundy. and its with prigs, sheed, brewer, KIDD, and NOVAK!!!

  68. Owen

    The Prig……

    it doesn’t sound that nice, given its real meaning…..

    He is such a funny looking guy. Looks like a ken doll according to my wife, crossed with that actor from scrubs who plays the mean doctor.

    I think he looks like a guy from the silent film era, can’t remember who….

  69. johnlocke

    He’s actually playing solid D, despite his aggressive three point shooting folly. He’s spelling Chandler

    Hubert Davis:
    Pull Wallace please

    Owen:
    Man, if that had gone down from sheed….

  70. maxwell_3g

    Thomas B.: Do you remember how the song “Queens Bridge” by MC Shan opens?
    How about instead of “The Bridge”, we say “The Prig” to that beat?It’s classic and it’s New York.

    The Prig, The Prig, The Prig.

    THE PRIG IS OVA, THE PRIG IS OVA

  71. Unreason

    I really wish Camby were available. Sheed looks like Lon Chaney out there. “Ball don’t lie…. Fire bad”

  72. Thomas B. Post author

    Owen:
    The Prig……

    it doesn’t sound that nice, given its real meaning…..

    He is such a funny looking guy. Looks like a ken doll according to my wife, crossed with that actor from scrubs who plays the mean doctor.

    I think he looks like a guy from the silent film era, can’t remember who….

    What’s a “Prig”?

  73. Owen

    Whoever said the ball movement has been amazing is totally correct…..

    What’s different tonight, can’t tell….

    This is fun basketball to watch, although I don’t know if the three point pace is, uh, sustainable….

  74. johnlocke

    Owen, you’re funny..

    Owen:
    Whoever said the ball movement has been amazing is totally correct…..

    What’s different tonight, can’t tell….

    This is fun basketball to watch, although I don’t know if the three point pace is, uh, sustainable….

  75. yellowboy90

    Smith and Novak at it again. The new odd couple.
    To me Priggy looks like the cook/waiter from old school. “you’re with the Godfather”.

    This reminds me of Teen Wolf without the wolf. I promise Novak’s face looked just like the fat kid’s face.

  76. maxwell_3g

    the one thing i love about jr- no one rejoices in Novak’s success more than JR- and really vice versa

  77. Douglas

    Owen:
    I think he looks like a guy from the silent film era, can’t remember who….

    He has a Buster Keaton-esque dourness to him…

  78. johnlocke

    again, sheed has played very solid defense this game

    Unreason:
    I really wish Camby were available. Sheed looks like Lon Chaney out there. “Ball don’t lie…. Fire bad”

  79. johnlocke

    This is embarassing….(for the Heat)…tears of JOY Owen and….this is Novak’s F* you game to the heat for last year’s performance….no Melo and no Sandy. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

  80. Nick C.

    Yeah. JR and Novak have a good thing going (on the court on the court). Early in the season JR was asked about the bench success and he said something to the effect of we loo for Novak.

  81. BigBlueAL

    For you younger Knick fans, dont be surprised by this. This used to happen all the time between the Knicks and Heat in the late 90′s :-)

  82. Owen

    Prig : : one who offends or irritates by observance of proprieties (as of speech or manners) in a pointed manner or to an obnoxious degree

    Has a bad connotation. Someone who is an uptight douchebag basically

  83. johnlocke

    Yes, but not between the Knicks and Bulls in the 90s which is the appropriate benchmark..lol

    BigBlueAL:
    For you younger Knick fans, dont be surprised by this.This used to happen all the time between the Knicks and Heat in the late 90?s :-)

  84. BigBlueAL

    johnlocke:
    Yes, but not between the Knicks and Bulls in the 90s which is the appropriate benchmark..lol

    They did beat the Bulls with MJ by 37 early in the 1992-93 season!!

  85. DRed

    I have no problem with James White getting a few more minutes. Not that I have any idea who James White is.

  86. nicos

    LBJ must be having Cleveland flashbacks- it was like he was by himself out there. What was amazing is that besides Felton (and White in limited minutes) nobody played out of their minds offensively- JR, Sheed, and Kidd all shot poorly and while Chandler was solid he wasn’t quite up to his usual standard (a TS of just .60). Almost everyone played really well on defense- JR’s best defensive game in weeks. Great, great win.

  87. Thomas B. Post author

    Right now there is a video on ESPN where Stephen A. is saying that the Heat are “no question” a better team than the Knicks. How long before that video comes down?!

  88. Z-man

    My son and I started dancing Gangnam Style after the Chandler dunk. Linsane? I’m freakin’ C-RAY-ZY!!!

  89. Thomas B. Post author

    Owen:
    Prig : : one who offends or irritates by observance of proprieties (as of speech or manners) in a pointed manner or to an obnoxious degree

    Has a bad connotation. Someone who is an uptight douchebag basically

    How could I have never heard that? It sounds exactly like me. :-)

  90. DRed

    John Hollinger ?@johnhollinger
    Somehow, some way, the Knicks have stumbled into something pretty special. Heat D looked like it was killing a power play.

  91. Z-man

    Steven A just went ballistic on the Heat, and jumped on the Knicks bandwagon big time. He ended the interview by answering the last two questions: “Blowout.”…”Blowout.”

  92. flossy

    nicos: LBJ must be having Cleveland flashbacks- it was like he was by himself out there.

    No kidding–he outscored and outrebounded Wade and Bosh combined and had more than half his team’s assists.

  93. Z-man

    Sadly, we probably would have won by 40 if we had only signed Linsignificant rather than that bum Felton.

  94. DRed

    Our bench outscored them 57-19. LeBron and 11 scrubs (D Wade, I’m looking at you) can’t run with a team as deep as we are.

  95. daJudge

    Jon Abbey, thank you very much for wishing me happy belated birthday. Did you say this was your birthday today? If so, wow, you lucky m’f'er. I was at three separate political events tonight and my wife was supposed to record the game (don’t forget to vote for daJudge 2013). Unfortunately, she could not find it and felt like shit when I got home. She’s a huge Knick fan and still loves me after 35+/- years. Part of me was happy since I could be psychologically absolved from watching and stressing through the game (all of you know what I mean). Anyway, I got home and we still caught the whole fourth quarter. After the game we looked at each other and thought this was a pretty damn good game. All we wanted to see was Woodson bite Lebron in the leg to bring it full circle. Ball don’t lie. Go Knicks. This year is really special—savor it.

  96. Z-man

    The impact of Jason Kidd on this team cannot be overstated. Did you see the stoic look on his face when he executed the steal and break that virtually iced the game?

    It’s just basketball.
    -Jason Kidd

  97. Frank

    Wow. That was really something to watch. You keep waiting for the house of cards to come down, but maybe it just won’t.

    Woodson = 32-10 with this team. This is outrageous.

    Not to take anything away from this win, but there is something seriously wrong with Dwyane Wade. Maybe this is just the aging process, but he was basically a scrub out there today. He was a -33 in 32 minutes (compared with J Kidd who was a +31 in 32 minutes). And is it just me or does Chalmers look pretty heavy and slow out there? Battier was a total non-factor.

    Just amazing. I am sure this win will spawn 49285 posts about whether Carmelo is a good player or not, but I don’t care – just going to enjoy this one tonight.

  98. massive

    I’m honestly only watching this Mavs-Suns game to see what Charles Barkley has to say about the Knicks. Anybody else with me on that?

  99. Douglas

    massive:
    I’m honestly only watching this Mavs-Suns game to see what Charles Barkley has to say about the Knicks. Anybody else with me on that?

    Same

  100. Frank

    Tommy Beer from Hoopsworld just tweeted something I wholly agree with — the foundation of this team is a very stingy defense and an unbelievable ability to avoid turning the ball over (all while turning the other team over a lot). Only 7 TOs again tonight. in 9 out of our 18 games we’ve had single-digit turnovers. Just amazing.

    Again – hats off to Grunwald for building this team. We had the same limitations as the Lakers and Heat, and look at how freaking deep this team is. Prigioni, White, Rasheed, Novak, and Brewer were all signed to minimum contracts. JR was gotten for just the room exception. Kidd gets the mini-MLE. And we just beat the defending champs in their building by 20 without 4 of our projected top 10 guys (Melo, Amare, Shumpert, Camby). Just fantastic.

  101. massive

    Charles Barkley seriously just punked out like that? I’m disappointed; I wanted to hear Kenny Smith and Shaq get on him lol.

  102. DRed

    Where’s ruru tonight? No hockey assists, no Kobeassists from Melo, no shot creators, and we fucking crushed a 12-4 defending champion on the road. How did that happen?

  103. d-mar

    Just finished watching on DVR, sat there with my mouth open for 48 minutes. What an absolute beatdown, and whoever said every player on the Knicks gets an A+ was dead on – that was the definition of a team effort.

    One thing I don’t get about LeBron – after the blowout in NY and tonight’s game, he’s got a smile on his face and is kind of yukking it up with Knicks players. I know he proved himself last year, but I can’t imagine Jordan or Kobe not being incredibly pissed about being smoked on your home court.

  104. jon abbey

    DRed:
    Where’s ruru tonight?No hockey assists, no Kobeassists from Melo, no shot creators, and we fucking crushed a 12-4 defending champion on the road.How did that happen?

    Felton played the best game of his life (probably, I didn’t check), and Kidd was a ridiculous +31 in 33 minutes.

    I lost a long post when the site crashed, but you can’t get a much bigger statement win in early December than that. the playoffs are still light years away and anyone who thinks how Miami is playing now will matter at all in May and June is crazy, but this season so far has been even beyond ruru’s rosiest projections, and who saw that coming?

  105. JC Knickfan

    DRed:
    Where’s ruru tonight?No hockey assists, no Kobeassists from Melo, no shot creators, and we fucking crushed a 12-4 defending champion on the road.How did that happen?

    Maybe he got a paper cut and decided to sit this game thread out in honor Melo.

    After going 6-0 to start the season my gut feeling said this Knicks team will be good, but I never imagined it could be this good.

  106. DRed

    Yeah, but if Ray Felton has an average game we still win by 10, without any shot creators. I keep reading that Melo is they lynchpin of our offense. He makes everything go. If you don’t have him shooting a high volume at average efficiency, we’re screwed because he’s the only one who can create those shots.

    Kidd was ridiculous, but he’s the best point guard not named Magic Johnson to play in the NBA in 40 years. Jason Kidd at 39 is a better player than Carmelo Anthony has ever been. Melo can’t touch J. Kidd.

    Nice birthday present tonight, Jon. Hope you got to catch some of it.

  107. ruruland

    DRed:
    Yeah, but if Ray Felton has an average game we still win by 10, without any shot creators.I keep reading that Melo is they lynchpin of our offense.He makes everything go.If you don’t have him shooting a high volume at average efficiency, we’re screwed because he’s the only one who can create those shots.

    Kidd was ridiculous, but he’s the best point guard not named Magic Johnson to play in the NBA in 40 years. Jason Kidd at 39 is a better player than Carmelo Anthony has ever been. Melo can’t touch J. Kidd.

    Nice birthday present tonight, Jon.Hope you got to catch some of it.

    You’re a god damned moron if you think Felton’s impact on the ame were just his 27 points.

    Kidd is amazing, a great complement to Felton, but he is not the engine of the offense. he makes everything better, but he simply cannot come close to impacting the high pnr like Felton does, which kys the Knicks impossible to defend half court offense.

    Are you fucking drunk dude?

  108. ruruland

    jon abbey: Felton played the best game of his life (probably, I didn’t check), and Kidd was a ridiculous +31 in 33 minutes.

    I lost a long post when the site crashed, but you can’t get a much bigger statement win in early December than that. the playoffs are still light years away and anyone who thinks how Miami is playing now will matter at all in May and June is crazy, but this season so far has been even beyond ruru’s rosiest projections, and who saw that coming?

    of course the Heat will be better.

    But the basic mechanics of the Knicks offense goes right to the heart of the Heat’s defensive weaknesses.

    I don’t know if anyone listens to anything Albert and Kerr said tonight regarding Spoelstra’s comment on vertical spacing in the high pnr, or if people are interested in talking about the game and not turning this grat victory into some kind of gotcha thing (which is insane btw), but the Heat will not to make major adjutments to defend the high pnr.

    No team can stop it!! Felton is an elite pnr point guard, and with Chandler’s screening, finishing ability and mobility — that is the key– and the shooters around him, there just isn’t anything teams can do.

    You don’t see any teams that start the high pnr as far out as the Knicks do, but they can because of Chandler’s screening and speed towards the rim.

    He beats average rotations to the basket.

    That’s what Spoelstra was talking about re: vertical spacing.

    You know what I think is going to eventually happen, they are going to put Lebron on Felton, while jeeping Bosh on Chandler.

    Eventually, that will turn the high pnr into a decoy, but it will open up the middle of the defense where Amar’e and Melo can eat all game long.

  109. DRed

    ruruland: You’re a god damned moron if you think Felton’s impact on the ame were just his 27 points.

    Kidd is amazing, a great complement to Felton, but he is not the engine of the offense. he makes everything better, but he simply cannot come close to impacting the high pnr like Felton does, which kys the Knicks impossible to defend half court offense.

    Are you fucking drunk dude?

    Get the fuck out, ruru. You talk so much shit, so grow a thicker skin and take a little teasing like a man. Are you even a fucking Knicks fan? Ray Felton was absolutely amazing tonight-did I say he wasn’t? Felton’s a good PG, and a really nice fit for this particular team. He destroyed the Heat. But that’s not the point. How did we play so well without Carmelo? Seriously, asshole, got to Meloblogger.com if you’re going to be such a prickly bitch.

  110. jon abbey

    was I the only one who saw a little of Tim Hardaway in Felton for the first time tonight? that had to have been the best game of his life considering the competition and Melo being out, they even had LeBron on him at stretches.

  111. jon abbey

    also tonight was a night where Chandler should get more credit than the box score, because Miami gameplanned to stop him more with Melo out and it opened up space for everyone else.

  112. Douglas

    DRed: Get the fuck out, ruru.You talk so much shit, so grow a thicker skin and take a little teasing like a man.Are you even a fucking Knicks fan?Ray Felton was absolutely amazing tonight-did I say he wasn’t?Felton’s a good PG, and a really nice fit for this particular team.He destroyed the Heat.But that’s not the point.How did we play so well without Carmelo?Seriously, asshole, got to Meloblogger.com if you’re going to be such a prickly bitch.

    …aaaaand SCENE.

  113. jon abbey

    all ruru talked about all summer was how the Knicks had a chance at being a 60 win team and the main reason was because of how much they would cut down on turnovers given the new acquisitions. he couldn’t have been more right and one game without Melo doesn’t show much except how hard this team has come to play virtually every game so far (one dud effort in almost 1/4 of a season, in HOU, that is remarkable for the NBA).

  114. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    was I the only one who saw a little of Tim Hardaway in Felton for the first time tonight? that had to have been the best game of his life considering the competition and Melo being out, they even had LeBron on him at stretches.

    Yeah, you definitely cannot expect shot-making like that but a handful of times throughout the year, though it was a perfect night for it clearly and I think it really kept the Knicks confidence high.

    So many of those makes came in late shot clock situations, or when everything else had been shut down.

    But honestly, I think he can penetrate like that most games. There are situations when I think he gets gassed at times, and you don’t want to wear down Chandler by running it every play, but shit, you can’t defend it. Early in the year he was only able to go downhill like that for a quarter or half a quarter per half. But that’s increased quite a bit. And when teams switch on it, he can beat any big man off the dribble (he needs to do it more instead of settling for jumpers. That’s the one time he settles too much.)

    I honestly think it’s the best offensive play in basketball right now (aside from Durant or Lebron in transition or semi-transition) and most of that credit goes to Felton. He’s really a great pnr point guard. Sadly, he’ll never credit for it statistically. I honestly think it’s a lot more effective on a per possession basis than Paul/Griffin pnr.

    Felton goes so hard straight downhill. Paul kind of mills around in the paint waiting for an opening.

    IDK, I knew Felton’s pnr and penetration were great fits (remember the talk this off-season was how he wasn’t a great penetrator) but he’s better than I remember seeing.

    It’s just the perfect match of skills.

  115. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    all ruru talked about all summer was how the Knicks had a chance at being a 60 win team and the main reason was because of how much they would cut down on turnovers given the new acquisitions. he couldn’t have been more right and one game without Melo doesn’t show much except how hard this team has come to play virtually every game so far (one dud effort in almost 1/4 of a season, in HOU, that is remarkable for the NBA).

    The turnovers are big, and anyone who simply looked at career turnover rates for the incoming players vs the outgoing players could have easily concluded the same.

    The prediction that I was much more excited about this off-season was the penetration element Felton provided, and how it would fundamentally change the kinds of shots all of these really good shot-makers would get.

    I don’t know how much time we talked about how the inability to get guard penetration played perfectly into the Heat’s hands on defense last year, but I think it was the most important conversation on the board relating to the Knicks potential with this core.

    I thought the team would run a little bit more, but when you get a great shot almost every half-court trip, there is no reason to run when it’s not there.

  116. jon abbey

    watching the highlights again now, definitely some Tim Hardaway in Felton’s play tonight, that crazy crossover to get past his guy and those no-conscience, not in rhythm threes. wow!!!

  117. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    was I the only one who saw a little of Tim Hardaway in Felton for the first time tonight? that had to have been the best game of his life considering the competition and Melo being out, they even had LeBron on him at stretches.

    Hardaway is actually a great comparison.

  118. ruruland

    DRed: Get the fuck out, ruru.You talk so much shit, so grow a thicker skin and take a little teasing like a man.Are you even a fucking Knicks fan?Ray Felton was absolutely amazing tonight-did I say he wasn’t?Felton’s a good PG, and a really nice fit for this particular team.He destroyed the Heat.But that’s not the point.How did we play so well without Carmelo?Seriously, asshole, got to Meloblogger.com if you’re going to be such a prickly bitch.

    Not now, dude. You know exactly what you were trying to do. there was nothing good-natured about it.

  119. Juany8

    Guys…. We blew out the Heat WITH Melo too…. Seriously? The Spurs threw away a lot more than just Carmelo Anthony and almost won too. The Wizards DID win, despite being the worst team in the NBA. If you can’t sell yourself on the fact that the Heat don’t give a shit, then they’ve proven pretty conclusively that they’re not a very good team unless they’re playing Brooklyn or Phoenix. Know how the Knicks had 5 double digit wins to start the season? The Heat have 5 double digit wins ALL SEASON, and 4 are against Phoenix and Brooklyn. They’re barely scraping by the other teams, and this is the 3rd time this year they lose by 20, 2nd time to the Knicks of course. First game doesn’t look like as much of a fluke now does it?

    By the way, the shot creation argument says the team is screwed without a creator that can play like a star. Felton doesn’t have to be a star the rest of the season, but he played fucking amazing tonight, quite simply there’s your shot creator. By the way, nobody is arguing you need to be all that good at shot creation to beat a defense that’s recently given up a 100 to teams like Cleveland, Washington, and the Spurs scrubs. If they can’t guard a simple pick and roll then why are we pretending it means anything that it means anything if they won a championship last year?

  120. BigBlueAL

    Barkley just said on Inside the NBA he doesnt believe in the Knicks because they shoot too many 3pters and dont rebound. Shocking. He is announcing the game next week vs the Lakers, hope fans at MSG heckle the shit out of him.

  121. Shad0wF0x

    Did Patrick Ewing take a shit in Chuck’s luggage or something? WTF is his problem? It’s like he hates NY for no reason at all. If you add LeBron and Durant to the Knicks, he’ll still probably hate the team.

  122. Juany8

    Oh and just to be a dick: Tyson Chandler’s TS% this season when Melo plays: 75%

    Chandler’s TS%: when Melo doesn’t play: 60%

    When you factor in the 2 turnovers (out of the Knicks 7 total) it seems it wasn’t our offensive superstar that filled up the void left up Melo but the mediocre chucker that nobody wanted on this team

    The Knicks actually didn’t shoot as well as you’d think, they shot under 50% on 2′s (23/47) 40% on 3′s, which is good but below our season average, and much lower than the last game against the Heat, and they shot a laughably bad 69% from the line. Jason Kidd has actually had a BETTER TS% than Chandler this year, and he had 11 points on 12 shots tonight. The Knicks didn’t shoot well with Melo out, they just managed to avoid turnovers equally well, mostly because Felton was handling everything that Melo usually would and the rest of the team is awesome at making smart plays. But this isn’t much better than the Knicks season average for offensive efficiency, and it’s lower than what the Knicks are averaging on offense when Melo is in the game (a video game like 118 points per 100 possessions)

    This loss says just as much about what the Heat look like now than it does about how good our bench is. Again, in extremely similar conditions last week, the Spurs almost won despite benching EVERYONE. Even the biggest Melo nut-hugger would have to admit that losing Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and Green is a bit more severe than just losing Melo. If you think that this team without Melo is better than San Antonio’s scrubs and Washington’s best players (which I absolutely do) then this result isn’t very surprising.

  123. jon abbey

    that was the worst +/- game of Wade’s career, -33, matched up against basketball wizard Jason Kidd.

  124. ognyc

    DRed:
    Where’s ruru tonight?No hockey assists, no Kobeassists from Melo, no shot creators, and we fucking crushed a 12-4 defending champion on the road.How did that happen?

    On the second night of a back to back….

  125. lavor postell

    I have been “elevated” since the Tyson dunk to make it 109-88. Take elevated as you would if you were watching Half Baked.

    This is the most impressive Knicks win I can remember in my lifetime. Ball movement and assisted 3′s with a sprinkinling of hero shots. That is a recipe for success and they didn’t even have to respect our significant mid-range threats in Melo who has been a beast this season and STAT who is still rehabbing.

    I know STAT’s reinvolvement with the team will affect minutes, rotations, starting lineups, etc. If he can fit his game into the system and show the growth defensively he showed last year under Woodson this team can be deadly.

    Spoelstra talked about the vertical threat Tyson provides before the game. He is an absolutely integral part of our offense and one that adds a certain cutting edge to the offense in terms of how decisive his actions are.

    Felton is just a pitbull. Always probing and attacking and today he just had it going from outside. He really seems to relish the New York across his chest.

    Can’t wait to see how good our defense can be once Shumpert is back and if STAT can get it going…

  126. ruruland

    Right Juany, and enough with the they aren’t playing hard meme.

    Everyone will play harder in the playoffs. There are structural flaws to their team that are exposed every game.

    Still the favorites to win the East? You have to give that to them and they have the best player of all-time who can go 40-10-10 in a series.

    Is Wade fading? hard to argue no. Everyone knew it would catch up to him, a guy so reliant on his amazing explosion. I don’t know the last time I’ve seen his patented two-step finish from a screen and roll.

    Every once in a while he’ll show flashes.

    Also, the Heat’s wing defenders are older than the Knicks. So, we all should laugh when people talk about age issues. Allen, Miller, Battier, Lewis… these guys are old and the Heat rely on perimeter rotations more than any team in the league.

    I said the Knicks would make it a long series with Miami in the ECF. I think that these two blowouts are the most important thing to happen all year. Psychologically, it imprints something in the collective minds of both squads that will always be returned to in another game situation.

    I think the intimidation and fear is totally gone. Frankly, that was what the Heat relied on last year. They were incredible when they sensed weakness and those runs were pretty much incomparable.

    But you give the Knicks 4 chances at MSG, if they can steal one one the road. with that crowd and with core guys hungry for a ring, man, that could be really incredible.

  127. johnlocke

    We played good defense (which we’ve been doing with and without Melo) and we hit 18 three pointers — 18. Look at the video –fourteen of them were contested threes. You don’t make fourteen contested threes in a game. If you look at the Melo game where we also crushed them by 20, we got many more open looks from three. Just watch the three point attempts from both games.. I posted a link earlier in this post. That win was no indictment on Melo or ruru.

    DRed:
    Where’s ruru tonight?No hockey assists, no Kobeassists from Melo, no shot creators, and we fucking crushed a 12-4 defending champion on the road.How did that happen?

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