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Tuesday, September 16, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks at Rockets

Well folks, this should be interesting. The long-awaited matchup v. a once-heralded Knick PG who was unceremoniously shipped out of town…Toney Douglas.

In all seriousness, so matter what happens tonight, emotions are going to be at a fever pitch. I beseech y’all, be kind to each other.

Have at it!

159 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks at Rockets

  1. RicanKnick

    #TeamFelton #Didn’tCryedWhenLinLeft #NYTreatment #Knickstape…. I expect a big game from Kidd & Felton…Let’s see how Camby does….

  2. Nick C.

    Well that was a little too easy for Lin to get to the hoop. Why wouldn’t the Knicks pressure him when he brings the ball up?

  3. ephus

    It’s not just that Melo is on fire. He is playing really smart offensive basketball. He caught the ball on the mid-block, faked kicking out to Felton to keep the doubleteam from coming, and then took it all the way to the rim for a reverse layup.

    Of course, the Knicks are doing nothing defensively. It might take 130 points to win this game.

  4. d-mar

    This game is scarily reminscent of some of last year’s pre-Woodson efforts, or lack thereof. Remember those games where we would dig ourselves a big hole and then fight back in the 2nd half? Don’t like what I’m seeing at all.

  5. ephus

    Bush league by the Rockets not to call a time out when they had the ball and Morris went down. They got a cheap bucket because the Knicks literally could not rotate around the fallen player.

  6. Nick C.

    Melo going Dr. J for the slam! (ok not quite foul line but still impressive). JR came through, mostly at the line, to bring them back to three down.

  7. BigBlueAL

    Chandler still hasnt sat and the 2nd quarter has begun. Woodson really has no faith in Camby right now.

  8. BigBlueAL

    Now Kurt Thomas replaces Chandler. Camby is either deep in Woodson’s doghouse for some reason or is hurt.

  9. Nick C.

    Novakaine! Please don’t let this be the usual once a game instance of this. While typing a sequence of ugh for layups and Woody calling a time out. What happened to our smart focused team?

  10. Juany8

    Man I love that Harden gets whistles and think he earns them, but if Melo got called as easily as Harden he’d league the league in free throw attempts with Dwight Howard like numbers. Harden gets called for jumping into people and falling down, guys like Rose and Melo don’t get called for being smacked because they keep going strong anyways

  11. d-mar

    Not feeling good at all about this game, Rockets scoring at will, and a lot inside. If Melo wasn’t scorching hot, we’d be down 20.

  12. Colead

    Cant help but look at this and not think that if they had Stat in to carry the load while Melo sits these past few minutes the offense could flow much smoother…jr seems to put himself under a lot of pressure at times as the primary shot creator

  13. Juany8

    Colead:
    Cant help but look at this and not think that if they had Stat in to carry the load while Melo sits these past few minutes the offense could flow much smoother…jr seems to put himself under a lot of pressure at times as the primary shot creator

    Colead I fully agree that having Amar’e out there with the second unit would make a big difference, but I don’t know if it’ll balance out having to start and finish games with him. If this team wants a chance to beat Miami, it’s gonna have to be Felton/Shump, Kidd, JR, Melo, and Chandler. The thought of Stoudemire guarding either Lebron or Battier makes me want to puke

  14. ephus

    That skip pass from ‘Melo to Felton for three will pay dividends later in this game and later in the season. Teams are not going to feel confident doubling ‘Melo, because he is finding the open shooter even if he is clear across the court.

  15. Juany8

    llcoolbp:
    I forgot how bad these rockets broadcasters are. Watching this on league pass. Really bad homers.

    Once you watch San Antonio a few times it makes everyone else look good. Boston is pretty terrible too

  16. Juany8

    Nick C.:
    Juan is Parsons this good? He’s been getting 20 or double doubles lately.

    He’s the perfect role player, I really think he’ll be around as good as Luol Deng (bit worse on defense but more versatile on offense) as he matures. He plays hard and smart, he’s long and athletic, and he has every offensive skill you could want from a role player. Obviously he won’t shoot this well every night and the Knicks aren’t really respecting him, but he’s a damn fine player

  17. ephus

    James White is playing the 5 right now. Felton/Brewer/Kidd/Smith/White. It’s not working.

    Camby must be hurt.

  18. BigBlueAL

    I take it back, Knicks dont have a chance in hell of winning this game. Embarrassing effort tonight. A nice reality check.

  19. RicanKnick

    Horrible defense…can’t wait for Shump to get back!!! No 2nd voice on ofense…can’t wait for Stat to get back!!! That Parson guy, didn’t see that coming.

  20. Nick C.

    Parsons is bring back all sorts of memories of the bad old days when secondary players would have career highs against the Knicks. Earl Watson come to mind anyone?

  21. MoogSM

    I’m guessing Camby and Wallace are hurt? Even if they are, Woodson’s lineups make no sense at all tonight.

    And why did Prigoni take two 3s early in the shot clock? What happened to our high IQ team???

  22. johnlocke

    Just caught up to this game on DVR. WTF. Does Woody have something against Camby? We need boxing out, and an inside defensive presence and he subs in Tyson with Thomas and then later Novak? WTF!!
    This is the 2nd game in a row, Woodson has made moves that has just left me dumbfounded. We have no shotblocking once Tyson leaves

  23. Colead

    Juany8: Colead I fully agree that having Amar’e out there with the second unit would make a big difference, but I don’t know if it’ll balance out having to start and finish games with him. If this team wants a chance to beat Miami, it’s gonna have to be Felton/Shump, Kidd, JR, Melo, and Chandler. The thought of Stoudemire guarding either Lebron or Battier makes me want to puke

    Haha yeah im kinda holding out a deeply illogical hope that he has become humbled by how the team has played in his absence, especially defensively and even in terms of just extra effort on that side of the floor. I mean seriously, how dangerous does this team become if that man starts to give a s**t on d and remembers how to nail his elbow jumpers, not to mention these potential post up moves?

    Then again, did we just give up 72 points in the first half? Maybe this D sample size was a little hollow?

  24. Knicks4Eva

    Seriously what is going on?

    The gorgeous ball movement started fading against Dallas and is all but gone tonight.

    And the defensive effort, sheesh.

    And finally, even with injuries to all, isn’t there another big on the bench to try?

  25. johnlocke

    Can someone guard Chandler Parsons and force Harden to go left…and pressure Jeremy Lin. This has been by far the worst game Felton has played so far this year…I definitely think he made this game get into his head

  26. BigBlueAL

    MoogSM:
    I’m guessing Camby and Wallace are hurt?Even if they are, Woodson’s lineups make no sense at all tonight.

    And why did Prigoni take two 3s early in the shot clock?What happened to our high IQ team???

    Wallace is out tonight with a sore foot. From what the writers are tweeting Woodson said before the game Camby still isnt in game shape and needs to work on his conditioning. Tough to work on your conditioning sitting on the bench.

  27. ephus

    Sheed was announced to be out with a hurt foot (Oedipus, literally). No explanation for why Camby is not playing. If he is not hurt, something disciplinary is going on. There is no basketball explanation for keeping him on the bench so that James White can be the tallest Knick on the floor.

  28. johnlocke

    WTH does that mean… I can play 10 minutes of basketball right now, I’m sure he can do that too. He just needs to stand in the middle and put his hand up and box out. No one’s asking him to dribble the ball up and isolate

    jon abbey:
    Wallace is hurt, Camby supposedly has “conditioning issues”.

  29. johnlocke

    Co-sign.. terrible. And I’m still pissed about his decision to run down the clock down 1 in Dallas.

    BigBlueAL:
    Also Mike Woodson has been as bad if not worse than the players tonight.Awful, awful lineups.

  30. yellowboy90

    johnlocke:
    Can someone guard Chandler Parsons and force Harden to go left…and pressure Jeremy Lin.This has been by far the worst game Felton has played so far this year…I definitely think he made this game get into his head

    Don’t you want to force the left handed Harden right? Also, they might want to stop him from splitting on the pnr

  31. BigBlueAL

    Gideon Zaga:
    Game aint over people. You all talking as if we lost. Come on.

    Even if they come back and win, there is no erasing how awful they looked in the 1st half. The past 4 quarters combined the Knicks have allowed 137 points.

  32. BigBlueAL

    When was the last time the Knicks won in Houston?? The Rockets broadcast said the Rockets have won 13 of the past 14 games vs the Knicks, dunno if they meant overall or in Houston.

  33. johnlocke

    yes, that’s what I meant. Just so pissed right now… lol

    yellowboy90: Don’t you want to force the left handed Harden right? Also, they might want to stop him from splitting on the pnr

  34. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL: Even if they come back and win, there is no erasing how awful they looked in the 1st half.

    actually that would totally erase it for me, it’s tough to win road games and I would be thrilled if they somehow pull this one out. that half was ugly, though.

  35. johnlocke

    I don’t mind losing what I mind are:
    1) inexplicable coaching decisions (8 man rotation in a back to back, running down the clock down 1 point, not playing Camby when we need defensive presence inside)

    2) horrible defense

    3) chuckery and not passing the ball — last 2 games, way too much one-on-one. We really can’t revert back to that

    Gideon Zaga:
    Game aint over people. You all talking as if we lost. Come on.

  36. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: actually that would totally erase it for me, it’s tough to win road games and I would be thrilled if they somehow pull this one out. that half was ugly, though.

    Yeah good point, I will take a win anyway they can get it. Still its gonna take alot to erase the image of this horrible 1st half lol

  37. ephus

    Jamal Crawford just made one of the most ridiculous scoop shots I have witnessed since George Gervin retired. Should be a Top 10 highlight.

  38. johnlocke

    We cut it to 10…but I still hate the way we’re playing. Too much one-on-one and horrible help defense..guys just turning their backs to the basketball.

  39. johnlocke

    The worst of carmelo anthony….the worst of the new york knicks (selfishness, no defense, no rebounding/boxing out)

  40. llcoolbp

    Classic Carmelo complain on one end. No defense on the other end, and a tech. That’s some grade school mental lapse. He does that at least once a game.

  41. Juany8

    llcoolbp:
    Classic Carmelo complain on one end. No defense on the other end, and a tech. That’s some grade school mental lapse. He does that at least once a game.

    Harden did THE SAME THING two seconds ago to avoid foul trouble. He has 4 fouls now anyways, he would have 5 now with most of the second half left. The complaining is annoying, but Wade does that every game and rarely gets technicals. There’s a reason EVERY Knicks player is complaining every single game, this is getting absurd

  42. johnlocke

    I can find not one single Knick player whose play I’m proud of tonight. Melo’s been on fire, but has shown NO leadership. Tyson has not boxed out at all and help defense has been lacking. Felton was just too jacked up to start the game. Everyone else = nonexistent.

  43. BigBlueAL

    Juany8: Harden did THE SAME THING two seconds ago to avoid foul trouble. He has 4 fouls now anyways, he would have 5 now with most of the second half left. The complaining is annoying, but Wade does that every game and rarely gets technicals. There’s a reason EVERY Knicks player is complaining every single game, this is getting absurd

    The absurd part is all the bitching and complaining plus utter lack of effort on D.

  44. jon abbey

    more people need to point out how much of this is on Chandler. he gets credit when the team plays good D, he needs to get blame when they look this bad.

  45. BigBlueAL

    Im turning this game off for now, dont need to be watching a flashback of the past 12 years. Hopefully this game will be a nice reality check for the team and they take their frustrations out on the horrible Pistons on Sunday.

  46. Juany8

    Chandler deserves an F for this game. Absolutely pathetic effort and class from him. Jason Kidd also needs to stop getting out of the opponent’s way on defense

  47. jon abbey

    that’s twice that Harden has kicked the ball out of bounds after being stripped and the refs have given it to Houston.

  48. Nick C.

    Haha its been so long I’ve forgotten whether really good teams have games where they look so shitty.

  49. llcoolbp

    They are on the road and they are not getting the calls. Having said that, melo is the leader. He has never shown that he can lead by example. At the first sign of adversity he crumbles and reverts to his worst tendencies. I’m disgusted with him right now.

  50. cgreene

    Knicks deserved this. Didn’t like the way they handled the whole Lin thing in the press like this was some sort of statement against Lin. And Lin owned Felton in this game. (And I was never a big Lin fan). Maybe they learn or maybe this is who they are.

  51. Nick C.

    Hopefully this is just a tough road trip rather than a return to reality. The next three games are Detroit, Brooklyn and Milwaukee. If they don’t win at least two I’m gonna start to wonder.

  52. jon abbey

    cgreene:
    And Lin owned Felton in this game.

    well, this isn’t true. Parsons shot the lights out, Chandler got abused by Asik, Harden went nuts helped by a bunch of borderline foul calls and no travelling calls, but Felton and Lin didn’t have much to do with anything after Felton’s early misses.

  53. Juany8

    jon abbey: well, this isn’t true. Parsons shot the lights out, Chandler got abused by Asik, Harden went nuts helped by a bunch of borderline foul calls and no travelling calls, but Felton and Lin didn’t have much to do with anything after Felton’s early misses.

    Actually Felton was the only Knick other than Melo to show up, he wasn’t super impactful but he actually held his man in check and made some 3′s when left open. Tyson Chandler and Ronnie Brewer were the clear cut worst players on the court tonight. Of course it’s somehow going to be Melo’s fault that Brewer and Chandler weren’t able to bottle up the Parsons-Asik pick and roll

  54. d-mar

    In six quarters, the Knicks have gone from one of the best defensive teams in the NBA to one of the worst. I hope they give up 140 tonight just to wake them the fuck up.

  55. Juany8

    The worst part is I can’t even take anything positive away from this win as a Rockets fan. A couple of players got ridiculously hot, the refs were atrocious and it clearly blew up the Knick’s psyche when this game was getting close, and there’s some part of me that thinks that the Knicks see Miami and Boston getting blown away on the road and realize that these games aren’t super important. Still disheartening, but the Knicks will still have the second best record in the league after this game

  56. BigBlueAL

    I guess while getting something to eat the Knicks couldnt pull out a miracle comeback.

    I dont think this game undoes the previous 10 games but I certainly hope it serves as a wakeup call and puts the brakes on premature talk of this team winning 60 games. Still believe/hope the Knicks are the 2nd best team in the East but they need to get back to how they were playing defensively earlier in the year and Woodson seriously needs to adjust his rotation.

  57. BigBlueAL

    Felton finished with 17 pts on 6 for 11 shooting with 8 assists and 4 to’s. He was not one of the problems tonight.

  58. Eric Chen

    cgreene:
    Knicks deserved this.Didn’t like the way they handled the whole Lin thing in the press like this was some sort of statement against Lin.And Lin owned Felton in this game.(And I was never a big Lin fan).Maybe they learn or maybe this is who they are.

    Felton and Lin both showed representative samples of what you get from them. Felton is a solid PG who’ll hold it down like the pro he is, but he lacks that extra gear and special knack for making a play. Lin is less consistent than Felton in the routine course of games, but he has an extra gear that Felton lacks and a special knack for making a play.

    It’s a wash in the regular season. The question is, which quality will make a bigger difference as the team moves deeper into the post-season? I say Felton is a sure thing at the cheaper price, but don’t expect him to be the guy who makes a game-changing play against a top contender in the post-season. Lin could be that guy, but it would have cost a premium price and a long wait to find out.

  59. yellowboy90

    ruruland: This. Looking forward to it.

    When is Melo going to get mentally tougher. Is he getting beat up. Heck yeah! However, he needs to know that his D is what is needed to get his team back into the game not him chucking and looking off his teammates. The refs thing obviously is not going away and he needs to adjust or he will be suspended for to many Ts by all-star break.

    Also, will someone send Tyson some Theraflu. STAT!

    Speaking of STAT he is needed.

  60. Z-man

    Eric Chen: Felton and Lin both showed representative samples of what you get from them. Felton is a solid PG who’ll hold it down like the pro he is, but he lacks that extra gear and special knack for making a play. Lin is less consistent than Felton in the routine course of games, but he has an extra gear that Felton lacks and a special knack for making a play.

    It’s a wash in the regular season. The question is, which quality will make a bigger difference as the team moves deeper into the post-season? I say Felton is a sure thing at the cheaper price, but don’t expect him to be the guy who makes a game-changing play against a top contender in the post-season. Lin could be that guy, but it would have cost a premium price and a long wait to find out.

    This is all biased conjecture from an obvious Linophile. The dude has absolutely stunk all season and had a whopping 3 assists vs. 4 turnovers tonight and you are suggesting that he’s a potential playoff savior? Please.

  61. ruruland

    yellowboy90: When is Melo going to get mentally tougher. Is he getting beat up. Heck yeah! However, he needs to know that his D is what is needed to get his team back into the game not him chucking and looking off his teammates. The refs thing obviously is not going away and he needs to adjust or he will be suspended for to many Ts by all-star break.

    Also, will someone send Tyson some Theraflu. STAT!

    Speaking of STAT he is needed.

    I’ll have a post on it soon.

  62. Z-man

    The Knicks lost tonight because they played absolutely horrific defense, especially help defense. Chandler’s job is to protect the basket, yet it looked like a layup line.

    I am not a big fan of the Melo at the 4 proposition. Melo is a 3. He should have been defending Parsons, and abusing Parsons on the offensive end. We are now playing a slowdown version of SSoL, playing small, jacking up 3′s, and having no interior presence on either end. The ball has stopped moving on O, the defense has stopped helping on D.

    I would love to see us go back to a Chandler-Wallace (or Thomas)-Melo-Brewer or Kidd-Felton starting lineup. We should be trying to win games from the inside out, not from the outside in.

    On a totally hypothetical note, Camby had the whole team over for Thanksgiving dinner last night. I wonder if Woody was pissed at something that went on there.

  63. Eric Chen

    Z-man: This is all biased conjecture from an obvious Linophile. The dude has absolutely stunk all season and had a whopping 3 assists vs. 4 turnovers tonight and you are suggesting that he’s a potential playoff savior? Please.

    Yep. Lin is the guy who might ‘stink it up’, even shoot 1-11, but take over a seesaw physical game in the last few minutes, and drive it into the teeth of the defense to make something happen when nothing else is working. Or dig out a blindside steal, or unexpectedly appear between 2 opponents to yank out a rebound. You know, a special knack for making plays

    Felton is the guy who’ll execute the coach’s gameplan, produce a solid stat line, but he won’t be doing the above.

  64. d-mar

    Hard to look at a bright side tonight, but the Knicks are done with Texas (and Memphis) trips and still haven’t lost a home game.

  65. Z-man

    d-mar:
    In six quarters, the Knicks have gone from one of the best defensive teams in the NBA to one of the worst. I hope they give up 140 tonight just to wake them the fuck up.

    Putrid effort on D, starting with the reigning DPOY. What the hell is up with him?

  66. Z-man

    Eric Chen: Yep. Lin is the guy who might ‘stink it up’, even shoot 1-11, but take over a seesaw physical game in the last few minutes, and drive it into the teeth of the defense to make something happen when nothing else is working. Or dig out a blindside steal, or unexpectedly appear between 2 opponents to yank out a rebound. You know, a special knack for making plays

    Felton is the guy who’ll execute the coach’s gameplan, produce a solid stat line, but he won’t be doing the above.

    This is pure, unadulterated BS. You haven’t made a comment on this site for the entire season before now, and today you come out of the woodwork to defend Lin’s sacred honor by making outlandish, unfounded statements that defy what his numbers say about him? Has it escaped your notice that his own coach has benched him at the end of recent games out of fear that Lin will blow the game for his team…in favor of the great Toney Douglas?

    Look, I appreciate that you are desperately rooting for the Taiwanese-American kid to succeed, but please, keep it real.

  67. Brian Cronin

    Perhaps Camby really just isn’t in game shape? I dunno. It is pretty weird. I’d like to see Woody address that.

    Ah well, bad loss but they’re still 8-3, that’s a very good record.

  68. BigBlueAL

    d-mar:
    Hard to look at a bright side tonight, but the Knicks are done with Texas (and Memphis) trips and still haven’t lost a home game.

    Also they havent lost a game vs the Eastern Conference, the only team in the East not to do so.

  69. BigBlueAL

    If the Knicks are missing Lin’s “clutchness” Im sure the Rockets would like to know what clutchness that is. His biggest shot of the season was an airball 3pter vs the Heat and in the last couple of close games he has been benched in favor of Toney freaking Douglas at the end of games.

  70. jon abbey

    yeah, I actually liked Eric’s posts here today, and also think it makes sense for him to start posting again today since Lin is his guy (and he did post before the game), but I’m pretty sure I strongly disagree with the possibility of him being a second round difference maker, especially against the Heat or Celtics. Rondo would eat him for breakfast and the Heat abused him last year as we all recall. Parsons/Harden/Asik all played great tonight as I said above, not so impressed with Lin.

    NY is getting a lot of road games out of the way early, the Lakers still have yet to win even one road game.

  71. BigBlueAL

    Yeah I mean I have no problem with people rather having Lin than Felton and arguing Lin is the better player. But to say the difference between them is Lin’s clutchness or ability to make a game-changing play is kind of ridiculous.

  72. nicos

    My only real concern (besides the suspicion the Chandler may have some injury he’s hiding, Brewer too) is the second unit- Prigioni can’t get anything going leaving JR to have no choice but to start chucking. Novak’s defense is shockingly bad and given how few shots he’s getting (even if he was making them, which he’s not) at this point I wouldn’t mind maybe giving Copeland a few of his minutes and see if getting some post play might help get that unit jump started.

  73. ruruland

    I’m going to log all of the defensive breakdowns tonight for everyone’s edification. Please feel free to watch and see if I make any mistakes.

    Just absolutely brual defensive games from Chandler and Brewer, whose breakdowns early fed Houston confidence’s. Now, there were breakdowns everywhere, but those two guys are the defensive leaders, and I’ve got to say they’ve been extremely disappointing so far on that end.

    Brewer is nothing like the guy I remember in Chicago and Utah.

    Here goes.

  74. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    Brewer doesn’t look like he’s quite in shape yet, he did kind of rush back after his surgery.

    Anyone who watches the dvr a second and third time, it’s even worse than you initially think.

    So far, 17 of Houston’s 22 points are off absolutely egregious breakdowns by either Chandler or Brewer.

    It’s sort of outrageous how poorly those two played. I’m not trying obfuscate on other issues, but this was as clear as day.

    They shouldn’t have been on the court.

  75. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    Brewer doesn’t look like he’s quite in shape yet, he did kind of rush back after his surgery.

    I think his knee is obviously bothering him again. He was great in the first few games on both ends of the floor then he had that game where he missed the entire 2nd half and Woodson started talking about having to be careful with his minutes.

    He probably played too much too soon and is paying for it a bit right now.

  76. Will the Thrill

    While Chandler and Brewer did play bad defensively, it was clear that nobody brought it on that end. I mean, the 14-2 run or whatever at the end of the second quarter was ridiculous, James White at center?

  77. Will the Thrill

    In other news, JR is back on his biz. Kidd with a horrendous game according to +/- (-29!!) and Novak and Tyson led any Knicks playing a substantial amount with a -10, and -11. Pretty weird stats..

  78. ruruland

    2-Lin ball fake on Melo gets him to basket. No contest from Chandler.
    4-Chandler late in transition, Harden 1-1 draws foul.
    7- Brewer goes underneath screen for wide open Parsons 3
    9- After Melo and Kidd deny Harden penetration, Brewer falls asleep on weakside. Parson backdoors him for uncontested layup. Chandler no contest at rim.
    11- Chandler beat in transition by Askin for uncontested dunk. Cdhandler was ahead of Asik at halfcourt line.
    13- Parsons blows by Chandler in pick and roll. Brewer/Chandler provide absolutely no resistance. Chandler not only doesn’t edge, he fails to even contest the penetration.
    16—Harden transition 3. These kinds of looks are built into every game. Not defensive breakdown.
    18- Chandler comes out way too high on Lin/Asik pnr (neither can shoot). Asik slips screen for easy layup. Horrible pnr defense by Felton/Chandler.
    20- Chandler comes out too high and Brewer gives Parsons the lane for an uncontested layup in pnr. No screen is even set. Brewer gives too much room to Parsons who blows right by him. Chandler coming out way too high. About as bad of pick and roll defense you’ll ever see.
    22–Brewer contests Parsons 3, Parsons uses dribble pull-up for mid range jumper. This is what you want, but Chandler/Brewer allowed Parsons to get hot.
    24—Parsons post-up turnaround on Felton. Again, Brewer and Chandler let Parsons get hot. That is not his shot.

    26—Parsons layup in transition, Horrible pass by Felton.
    29—Parsons deep 3 on Smith, uncontested.
    31- Harden gets 1-1 on Melo in transition. Chandler fails to retreat to provide rim protection.
    33- Harden fouled in semi-transition by Novak (questionable late call). Chandler again fails to get back on defense giving Harden 1-1 with Novak. Chandler is the Knicks worst transition defense player by a long shot so far this year, and that’s saying something.
    35- With a 4-5 offensive situation, Parsons gets layup after getting Smith in air. Another no-contest at the rim by…

  79. ruruland

    37—Melo contests Parsons 3, Parsons blow by. Finally Chandler contests but with hard foul.
    39—Harden questionable (travel) on eurostep off screen. Melo called with foul. Automatic call on any Harden penetration .
    41—Kidd beat off penetration
    44- Smith fouls Harden after going under screen for 3pt attempt.
    46—Patterson outworks smaller Knicks for easy offensive rebound and putback.
    48- Harden layup against Thomas/Novak pnr “defense”.
    50 Lin uncontested layup in transition which is late.
    53- Lin beats Felton right. Lin can’t go left, Felton gives him right and gets beat badly.
    54- Chandler beat on backdoor cut by Asik for foul. Chandler way too high again. (Kidd beat by Parsons after trying to help)
    55- Chandler gives up offensive rebound to Aski called for loose ball foul
    58- Cook 3 after Novak sags to help on Harden.
    60- Harden beats Smith 1-1 for automatic foul call
    62- Harden step buck jumper on White. Good shot.
    64- Parsons dunk in transition. Not enough time to get back.
    67- Harden step back 3 on Kidd.
    69—Harden automatic foul call against Kidd 1-1
    72—Parsons 3 after Novak loses him somehow in half-court. Novak may not be playing much longer.
    75- Parsons on 3 after contest by Brewer. Tougher shot, decent defense.Parsons makes this shot because of the 1st quarter defense.
    77- Knicks trap Harden with Melo, results in open Patterson jumper.
    79- Lin beats Felton for layup after ball-fake.
    81—Harden beats Kidd and Chandler in pnr for layup
    83—Felton beat by Lin off dribble.. Going right.
    85- Asik layup against Chandler after Melo forces airball on Lin. Holy shit Chandler is a sieve right now.
    87—Chandler fails to get back on defense two consecutive possessions results in just two points.
    89- Anthony allows dunk after whining to refs. Horrible sequence by Melo. But he actually played the best game defensively of any Knick, which isn’t saying much of anything. Some of that was because he didn’t guard Harden or Parsons all…

  80. ruruland

    90- Melo called for loose ball foul on Asik.
    92- Chandler elbow on Asik after getting beat for board.
    94- Lin open jumper after trap on Harden.
    96- Asik in transition.
    Game over at this point

  81. ruruland

    Will the Thrill:
    While Chandler and Brewer did play bad defensively, it was clear that nobody brought it on that end.I mean, the 14-2 run or whatever at the end of the second quarter was ridiculous, James White at center?

    No, Chandler and Brewer were far and away the most egregious offenders tonight. Not close. Even the best help defensive team gets killed tonight because it was almost every possession in the first where they were getting beat at the point of attack.

    Secondly, get on Melo for some really bad transition sequences this year. But Chandler’s been worse, much worse.

    Tonight, Houston must have scored close to 20 points because he was the last getting back.

  82. nicos

    Chandler did come out too high on several screens but when he did the other Knicks left the lane wide open- Asik caught the ball at the free throw line a couple of times and no one rotated and he had easy dunks. It’s especially annoying because Asik has trouble catching the ball in any kind of traffic- you don’t have to be able to contest the shot, just get in the lane and he’s a turnover waiting to happen. I also think Brewer got caught looking to help before any help was necessary- something almost everyone has been guilty of (esp. JR)- when the Knicks had fresher legs that over-aggressiveness was forcing turnovers but now they’re a half a step slow and it’s turning into easy lay-ups.

  83. nicos

    Also, does anyone really doubt Amar’e will eventually get back into the starting line-up? Given how much foul trouble Melo has been you have to think he’ll be lobbying for it- Ruruland, any noise out of Melo’s camp on whether he wants to stay at the four?

  84. ruruland

    Melo definitely prefers small forward. He’s rarely guarded by power forwards, and frankly there will be teams that prefer to use power forwards on him defensively because his post game is so good right now.

    Offensively, he’s only just begun given the kinds of looks he’s getting off the high pnr and the way he’s consistently destroying his defender in post-up isolation. He’s developed some new wrinkles to his post-game.

    Defensively, he’s always been a good on-ball defender and it really doesn’t matter what position he plays. He had some great positions on Lin tonight, and we’ve seen him take on Gasol and West.

    He’s simply a cog in the Knicks switching defense. And he has those great hands against bigger players.

    Melo’s biggest problem defensively is boxing out bigger players. He’s always really struggled with it. He just doesn’t have much spatial awarness of where his man is.

    His other defensive problem is covering pick and roll, getting over screens and giving too much space to smaller, faster players on the 3pt line.

    But you can live with that stuff.

    His best defensive year came at the 3. So, all of this position stuff is pretty much nonsense.

    With the way Brewer is (n’t) playing defense, I don’t think there’s any question the Knicks are better served with Amar’e on the floor.

    Even if Amar’e gives up, say, two more scores per 50 possessions, he’s a better defensive rebounder.

    Kidd and Felton should perfectly balance Amar’e and Melo. I think you’ll finally see those two be the sort of unstoppable duo we’ve seen glimpses of the last two years.

    The bigger conundrum is figuring out how to maximize Amar’e’s time with Felton and a spacing big man (not Chandler), while also keeping him on the floor for all the minutes Melo is out.

    Either way, the problem is being totally overblown. Amar’e gives this offense a chance to be great.

    The much bigger concerns right now are Chandler and Brewer…

  85. ruruland

    nicos:
    Chandler did come out too high on several screens but when he did the other Knicks left the lane wide open- Asik caught the ball at the free throw line a couple of times and no one rotated and he had easy dunks.It’s especially annoying because Asik has trouble catching the ball in any kind of traffic- you don’t have to be able to contest the shot, just get in the lane and he’s a turnover waiting to happen.I also think Brewer got caught looking to help before any help was necessary- something almost everyone has been guilty of (esp. JR)- when the Knicks had fresher legs that over-aggressiveness was forcing turnovers but now they’re a half a step slow and it’s turning into easy lay-ups.

    Well, the problem is that when you give up the dive man because you come out too high and the opponent spaces the floor with the 3 other shooters it’s virtually impossible for Melo or Kidd or whoever to get from the 3pt line down to the key.

    This is the foundational premise of MDA’s offense and it’s the best thing the Knicks run on offense with Felton and Chandler. That or Melo with the ball, but you get the idea.

    Woodson was not unhappy with the help defense. It’s the point of attack defense that has to be strong against a team that spaces the floor. And this team isn’t going to do shit if Chandler does not at least pay a solid defensive game.

    I’m fully convinced something is wrong.

  86. Brian Cronin

    He probably played too much too soon and is paying for it a bit right now.

    We’re only eleven games into the season and already Woody’s lineup decisions are looking pretty darn strange. Some guys playing too much, some guys playing too little, weird lineups (White at center was the scariest example). The key guys are good enough that they can make up for the lineups, but I fear it will take a toll on some of the players as the season goes on. We’ve already seen it affect Brewer (even Woody had to admit to it).

  87. Brian Cronin

    Melo definitely prefers small forward. He’s rarely guarded by power forwards, and frankly there will be teams that prefer to use power forwards on him defensively because his post game is so good right now.

    I don’t see how Melo could not prefer the small forward position. Like Lebron, it is just a much better fit for them physically. The thing that makes it tough on them physically, though, also gives them advantages over power forwards on the other end.

  88. Z-man

    Yeah, Melo at the 4 is a gimmick. It’s not like we don’t have guys to play the 4. And when Melo plays the 4, we seem to have issues at the 3. I don’t mind it in specific situations, but I don’t like it as a rule.

    We should have a rotation at the 4 of Thomas, Sheed and Camby (and Amare when he gets back) with Melo there for maybe 10 mpg.

  89. yellowboy90

    Brian Cronin: I don’t see how Melo could not prefer the small forward position. Like Lebron, it is just a much better fit for them physically. The thing that makes it tough on them physically, though, also gives them advantages over power forwards on the other end.

    and Lebron has 30+ lbs on Melo.

  90. daJudge

    My guess is that Brewer’s knee has not healed and some nights it flares up, like last night. Chandler is not right at all. His defense has been mostly subpar IMO, which is really crazy absent injury. Also, I don’t think the team has played outstanding D for a complete game in a while. They try and turn it on late, but very inconsistent. The Knicks are 8-3. How good are they? It’s a great record, but the jury is still out.

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