Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks at Hornets

New York heads to the big easy. Your in-game thoughts here.

94 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread: Knicks at Hornets

  1. jon abbey

    strange things can happen on the road, NY needs to not get overconfident, although it seems as if Jason Kidd will not allow that to ever happen (judging by early results).

  2. llcoolbp

    I’m in heaven. Melo and jr both high fived me coming out of the tunnel. These are the best seats I’ve ever had and they are dirt cheap here in the big easy. I’m 8 rows from spike court side. I’m so hyped right now. Go Knicks!!!!!!

  3. Juany8

    Tyson Chandler getting owned by Robin Lopez? I hope he just realizes he doesn’t need to go all out in these early games with the team playing so well, but I do miss Chandler dominating and being the Knicks best player in a significant number of games.

  4. ruruland

    What did I tell you about Melo earning one of these games from the basketball god?

    He was getting too many good looks for his percentages not to really start climbing.

    Sort of a low energy start which is what you expect from a veteran team on a back to back against an opponent missing its best player.

    Without Melo this is a real struggle, maybe that’s self-evident idk

  5. Nick C.

    Great quarter by Melo. 19 points. NO 17. Then he closes out the quarter with a great cross court pass to Novak for a three!

  6. Michael Cline

    Not even fair what Melo is doing to these chumps. Witouth Davis in the middle, the Hornets are truly awful. Feel bad Stern screwed them last year.

  7. ruruland

    Michael Cline:
    Not even fair what Melo is doing to these chumps. Witouth Davis in the middle, the Hornets are truly awful. Feel bad Stern screwed them last year.

    They’ve actually been quite competitive without Davis.

  8. ruruland

    If Owen is around, how is Ryan Anderson getting outplayed by this scrub power forward for the Knicks?????

  9. Nick C.

    What the hell Melo got clubbed on the head as that rebound was in the air. No wonder he was so pissed.

  10. johnlocke

    Out of town seeing fam. Is there a good link to watch the game online or listen via radio online? Help!

  11. nerfherder

    Melo is better at basketball than I am at literally every thing I do, including eating cheetoes and sitting.
    Sometimes I fall off my chair for like no reason…

  12. Frank O.

    Their 3 pt shooting is what is making this a game.
    Playing out of their asses from out there.
    But that’s what is causing the problem on penetration. They stretched the D.
    The three won’t keep falling for them in the 3rd. Expect Knicks to extend lead to 20 next period.

  13. ruruland

    How is it possible that Robin Lopez, who’s played 4 minutes, has more free throw attempts than Melo, who’s played 20 and attempted 7 shots inside the paint??????????

    Seriously, at this point, how can you seriously doubt that something is going on between the officials and Melo?

    If he can’t get obvious calls when he is getting repeatedly mauled in the paint on multiple forays after dominating in every offensive aspect (which typically leads to anticipation calls, especially for leading scorers in the league who’ve been great offensive players for a decade like Melo)….. … I’ve never seen anything like this before.

    It’s an utter disgrace.

  14. ruruland

    Frank O.:
    Their 3 pt shooting is what is making this a game.
    Playing out of their asses from out there.
    But that’s what is causing the problem on penetration. They stretched the D.
    The three won’t keep falling for them in the 3rd. Expect Knicks to extend lead to 20 next period.

    Hornets are just playing wih more energy. The Knicks will turn it up if they have to, but the Knicks are going for a b2b sweep, so I think we’d all prefer they make some shots and hope the Hornets go away.

  15. johnlocke

    You think there’s a conspiracy? The Knicks should make a formal complaint to the NBA if they think that’s the case. I haven’t watched enough non-Knicks games this year to say he’s getting a different whistle than other players that play in contact

    ruruland: Seriously, at this point, how can you seriously doubt that something is going on between the officials and Melo? .

  16. Frank O.

    You know, i find it hard to believe there is some kind of conspiracy among refs against Melo.
    But he does get hammered with no calls and guys like Wade and Kobe get all kinds of touch calls.
    The only thing I can sus out is the kind of contact Melo draws.
    He plays bully ball and there is always a lot of contact and sometimes it seems hard to tell whether contact is initiated by Melo or by the defender. For whatever reason, refs swallow the whistle.
    When the Knicks played against Melo I recall feeling he initiated it a lot and therefore it was not the defender’s fault.
    Now that he’s a Knick my perspective has obviously shifted. Lol

  17. yellowboy90

    I want to see the James white show. However I’m more likely to see the Prigs and Copeland comedy hour

  18. Thomas B. Post author

    I’ve waited years for a good Knicks team, and now that I have one I can’t believe how boring this is. You know, back in 2005 when the team was really bad it was kind of fun.

    We could make a ton of jokes. That was cool.
    We could lampoon the coaching decisions.
    We could talk about draft position if we had a pick (Thanks Isiah). If we didn’t have a pick, we could blame Isiah for that.
    We could scratch our heads at the way the mid level was used. “They gave Jerome James how much money?!”
    The Eddy Curry fat jokes.
    The Jerome James fat jokes.

    Jeffrightened!!

    And the in-game comments:
    “Roger Mason Jr. is awful.”
    “Why is Qyntel Woods starting?”
    “They cut Demetris Nichols?”
    “I knew they’d find a way to lose.”

    Seriously, when was the last time anyone posted a trade machine link here? Those were a staple in years past.

    And Dolan.
    Dolan Dolan Dolan.
    Nobody talks about James Dolan anymore. No more fire Dolan at all. Last year, every damn game thread began his ” Fire Dolan. Shump Sump.” Now Fire Dolan is dead. (That part I don’t really mind.)

    Winning is nice but man is it boring.

    I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

  19. massive

    Being good is boring because the regular season isn’t the season that matters. The season that matters starts in April, and that’s when it gets fun (so I’ve been told by a Celtics fan).

    And I gotta give ruru credit for his Camby analysis in the preseason. Camby literally gave Vasquez the lane so he could bait him into a shot block (that he didn’t get).

  20. johnlocke

    When you have a good team, it gets fun when you play good teams. Mavs in Dallas tomm should be more of a challenge..and Houston, no matter what, should be fun

    <a href="#comment-
    No more fire Dolan at all. Last year, every damn game thread began his ” Fire Dolan. Shump Sump.” Now Fire Dolan is dead. (That part I don’t really mind.)Winning is nice but man is it boring.I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

  21. Frank O.

    Thomas B.:
    I’ve waited years for a good Knicks team, and now that I have one I can’t believe how boring this is.You know, back in 2005 when the team was really bad it was kind of fun.

    We could make a ton of jokes. That was cool.
    We could lampoon the coaching decisions.
    We could talk about draft position if we had a pick (Thanks Isiah). If we didn’t have a pick, we could blame Isiah for that.
    We could scratch our heads at the way the mid level was used. “They gave Jerome James how much money?!”
    The Eddy Curry fat jokes.
    The Jerome James fat jokes.

    Jeffrightened!!

    And the in-game comments:
    “Roger Mason Jr. is awful.”
    “Why is Qyntel Woods starting?”
    “They cut Demetris Nichols?”
    “I knew they’d find a way to lose.”

    Seriously, when was the last time anyone posted a trade machine link here?Those were a staple in years past.

    And Dolan.
    Dolan Dolan Dolan.
    Nobody talks about James Dolan anymore.No more fire Dolan at all.Last year, every damn game thread began his ” Fire Dolan. Shump Sump.”Now Fire Dolan is dead. (That part I don’t really mind.)

    Winning is nice but man is it boring.

    I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

    Sick, sick man.

  22. BigBlueAL

    Got home in time to watch the 4th quarter, at least I got to see White take flight.

    I nominate Thomas B’s comment #51 as comment of the year lol

  23. nicos

    Interesting to see White so early- I know they had a big lead and probably wanted Brewer to get extra rest with the knee but you have to think he must be doing something right in practice. Looked pretty good- shot well and defense was solid- both man to man and in rotation.
    Only thing a bit worrisome is that we’ve had two straight games of bad JR- jacking up fallaways without anyone else touching the ball. Hopefully it’s just a small blip as the second unit really relies on his offense.

  24. d-mar

    8-1, best record in the NBA, and before tonight, the toughest schedule for the first 8 games.

    Please don’t wake me up, this is too much fun!

  25. johnlocke

    Yes, so unimpressed, yet the media still fawning over them.
    I can’t imagine an easier schedule to start the season. They’ve only played two teams over .500 (Miami and Minnesota) and lost to both, including being blown out by Miami. They’ve also only had 2 games won by double digits – the Magic and the LOWLY 2-8 Cavs. Their 5 game winning streak gets a big meh.. from me

    massive: The Nets are about to get murdered.

  26. SeeWhyDee77

    U know..I’m probably being Captain Obvious here- but what sticks out to me during this early season run is we are FINALLY beating teams we’re supposed to beat. And bringin it every night for every other team. Last season, we probably would’ve lost to a NO or a depleted Dallas or Philly..or even current roster Orlando. This just reinforces the notion that the fire, focus and intensity has gone up a notch. Guys look hungry and we really haven’t seen that on a Knick squad in quite some time. Woodson has their trust, ear, and respect. Looks like another great move by Grunwald. Most of the things I thought Woodson might be based on his time in Atlanta, he has proven not to be thus far. I can’t speak for someone else, but he is a better all around coach than I thought. Keep feeding me this kind of crow Woody!! Tastes great! lol

  27. lavor postell

    The Nets and Lakers look like they’re practicing offensive sets right now. The defensive effort in that game is pathetic. Anytime the Nets want an open look they just run pick and roll. Gasol in particular is getting abused. Lopez is a good scorer which is all that you need from a center. Definitely worth the max….

  28. jon abbey

    Thomas B.:

    I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

    if it helps, you’ll always be bad in my eyes, Rutgers. :)

    love that no one had to play more than 30 minutes, love that Felton was a +30 in 30 minutes, love that Chandler and Kidd will have added incentive to focus tomorrow in Dallas.

    not that this team has shown any trouble in focusing under any circumstances so far, they are starting to remind me a little bit of the first year of Garnett/Pierce/Allen in Boston, where somehow they instantly jelled.

  29. jon abbey

    yellowboy90:
    Wow kid score 138 pts. Went 27-71 from 3. How do you shoot 71 3s in one game?

    amazing, even Paul Westhead can somehow be improved on.

    “Taylor plays for Grinnell, which runs a variant of the offense that Paul Westhead ran at LMU in the early 90?s, except it’s faster. They want to shoot as quickly as possible, they press full-court the entire game, and they make complete line changes every minute or so.”

  30. danvt

    Thomas B.: I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

    Following a bad team is the true test of a good fan. Was 2005 the year they were down something like 28-3 to the Heat after one quarter?

  31. daJudge

    I have a couple of minor issues. (1) I don’t think Prigs is a bonafide second 1 off the bench on a top shelf team, as he is now playing. I am certainly willing to reserve judgment based on sample and fit. (2) I’m not sure about Chandler. His lateral seems slow. (3) Someone has messed with Novak’s muscle memory and should be killed. (4) JR is chucking a bit. On the other hand I believe that the match up issues Melo poses at the 4 with most teams are similar to the match up issues Stat will pose at the faux 5 coming off the bench. He will flat out dominate most of the match ups with the defensive minded Camby, Sheed or even Thomas playing the true 5. I really can’t wait to see this.

  32. llcoolbp

    Just got home from the game. Some tidbits. Fist pump from sheed and j Kidd as they left the arena. I got Tina cervasio to smile and say, “hey New York” to me as she was leaving (I was literally the only person who knew who she was). Spike lee was sitting next to josh brolin who is starring in his old boy remake, shooting down here right now.

    Observations:

    1) Those cross court passes from melo are very difficult, and if he continues, it’s what will elevate him into sub lebron level.

    2)Tyson really is a man amongst boys out there when he brings it. 12 boards in 19 minutes.

    3)before the Knicks came out of the tunnel they were huddled really serious style in a pre game ritual. Out of the media eye. I think this team is really serious in their focus.

    4) people love uncle sheed. He got some loud cheers even from the New Orleans fans.

    5) Novak was wide open and just flat out missed many times. He’s just going through a funk.

    6) late in the game with the Knicks up by 19 woodsen was still getting on his players for lackadaisical defense. I like that.

    All in all an awesome night. Nice to see the Knicks and feel like a New Yorker for one night, despite living in the Deep South.

  33. d-mar

    I truly believe that Jason Kidd is the biggest reason for the Knicks’ unbelievable start. Yes, Melo is playing like an MVP, Woodson is coaching the hell out of them at both ends, Felton and JR have been really solid, but Kidd is just so damn smart and intense, it just rubs off on everyone. On offense, he keeps the ball moving, never turns it over, always makes the right pass. On defense, he gets strips and ignites fast breaks. I am just so impressed with the guy’s court smarts, it makes you realize that those great Nets teams of the early 2000’s would have been mediocre at best without him.

  34. Kurt

    llcoolbp: too bad I didn’t seek you out, I was at the game too (though on the other side at mid court.

    A few observations from being there an hour and a half early:
    1. I saw Felton there basically the whole time working on his shooting. He was draining the vast majority of his practice 3’s. I think this could be a sign that he’s taking his shooting seriously and practicing a lot. Also, it would mean that his decent 3-point percentages are sustainable.

    2. Even in practice Sheed spent most of his shots on 3’s. Even then, he missed most of them, except for one time he hit three in a row. Otherwise, he had some pretty bad misses. He looked out of shape after the first few minutes, and I definitely noticed a boich (Yiddish for belly) on him. There were a number of times when he got beat because he couldn’t move laterally fast enough. I think I remember one time Jason Smith got by him.

    3. Steve Novak was missing a decent amount even in practice. He hit most of his 3’s, but less than I would have thought someone of his caliber would make more during practice. Bad omen for the game… That being said, I was impressed with his defensive effort. He clearly wasn’t letting his bad shooting affect the rest of his effort level.

    4. Speaking of llcoolbp’s comments about it being different in person: through connections I got the lower level. From up close the court looks really small with such big and athletic players hustling around. I now appreciate more than ever why good spacing is critical to a good offense.

    5. After Felton, JR was the earliest person shooting around at the Knicks’ hoop. It’s clear that he’s putting in a lot of effort this year.

  35. Kurt

    To add to llcoolbp’s comments about Chandler, once he went out both the offense and defense really suffered.

    I was surprised they got so many offensive rebounds considering its not their style.

    There were a lot of fellow New Yorkers in the Big Easy. I saw lots of Knicks gear in the house.

  36. jon abbey

    daJudge:
    I have a couple of minor issues.(1) I don’t think Prigs is a bonafide second 1 off the bench on a top shelf team, as he is now playing.I am certainly willing to reserve judgment based on sample and fit.

    he won’t be once Shumpie is back, Kidd will presumably go to backup PG and Prigioni will be out of the rotation. he’s not a terrible emergency 3rd PG, but I will not miss him when he is hopefuly getting DNP-CDs.

  37. Kurt

    oh, also, I think they were too Melo post up focused in the first half. In the second half they got into their other sets (horns, ball screens, etc.).

  38. jon abbey

    Chandler has been better the last couple of games. he started to tip balls out to the perimeter more today, a big strength of his game when he’s at his best.

  39. llcoolbp

    Kurt:
    To add to llcoolbp’s comments about Chandler, once he went out both the offense and defense really suffered.

    I was surprised they got so many offensive rebounds considering its not their style.

    There were a lot of fellow New Yorkers in the Big Easy. I saw lots of Knicks gear in the house.

    Kurt, nice to know there are a couple of meshugana (yiddish for crazy) knick fans down here, like me. Hopefully we run into each other some time.

    I agree with what you said about the court. It looks very small when you have the camby’s and wallace’s out there. Spacing is key. With shooters like they have the spacing is always good. Especially when you have melo in “bully ball” mode. You need all the shooters lined up and ready.

  40. ruruland

    Thomas B.:
    I’ve waited years for a good Knicks team, and now that I have one I can’t believe how boring this is.You know, back in 2005 when the team was really bad it was kind of fun.

    We could make a ton of jokes. That was cool.
    We could lampoon the coaching decisions.
    We could talk about draft position if we had a pick (Thanks Isiah). If we didn’t have a pick, we could blame Isiah for that.
    We could scratch our heads at the way the mid level was used. “They gave Jerome James how much money?!”
    The Eddy Curry fat jokes.
    The Jerome James fat jokes.

    Jeffrightened!!

    And the in-game comments:
    “Roger Mason Jr. is awful.”
    “Why is Qyntel Woods starting?”
    “They cut Demetris Nichols?”
    “I knew they’d find a way to lose.”

    Seriously, when was the last time anyone posted a trade machine link here?Those were a staple in years past.

    And Dolan.
    Dolan Dolan Dolan.
    Nobody talks about James Dolan anymore.No more fire Dolan at all.Last year, every damn game thread began his ” Fire Dolan. Shump Sump.”Now Fire Dolan is dead. (That part I don’t really mind.)

    Winning is nice but man is it boring.

    I miss being bad. Being bad was kind of fun.

    Wow, even in irony, insufferable.

  41. jon abbey

    the other 29 teams in the league are all between 13.2 and 17 turnovers per game, NY is at a ridiculous 10.4. the 2nd place team, TOR at 13.2, is closer to 22nd (15.6) than they are to us in 1st.

  42. ruruland

    Kurt:
    oh, also, I think they were too Melo post up focused in the first half. In the second half they got into their other sets (horns, ball screens, etc.).

    Those post-up typically come within a set. And those post-ups were creating a ton of great shots.

    Melo had merely a very good game where if he had even a decent whistle it’s a great game.

    Shame.

    I’m not sure it’s a conspiracy, but there is something going on. We’re not talking about questionable 50-50 calls, we’re talking about clear fouls when Melo is in space against the help defender in front of the rim.

    It’s absolutely insane that he had a higher ft rate last year when he is shooting a far higher percentage of his shots near the rim last year.

    When it’s no-call after no-call after no-call I really think it takes a toll on him and ultimately the team. It can’t keep happening and the Knicks staff needs to go out of their way to protect Melo with some preemptive talk.

  43. ruruland

    jon abbey: he won’t be once Shumpie is back, Kidd will presumably go to backup PG and Prigioni will be out of the rotation. he’s not a terrible emergency 3rd PG, but I will not miss him when he is hopefuly getting DNP-CDs.

    It’s hard to fathom that the Knicks can get much better than they are, but I think it’s pretty clear they will with those two.

  44. Kurt

    llcoolbp: definitely!

    I almost forgot the most important observation of all: i wish I had the courage to go up to Clyde and ask him if his outfit was intentionally one of the Mardi Gras colors (purple) since he was in the Big Easy…

  45. ruruland

    BigBlueAL:
    The Lakers are going to be scary good once Nash is healthy.

    I see them as being one of the greatest front-running teams of all-time, but the parts and system are so disparate I think they’ll have major diminishing returns problems. I don’t think their defense will ever elevate to anything more than good under MDA.

    And I don’t believe they’ll be able to maximize their incredible offensive pieces very consistently, and with what should be a pretty weak supporting cast, they can be defeated.

    But, yeah they’re going to go on some incredible runs this year and mow teams down for weeks.

    One thing about once-in-a-decade talented teams is that they are rarely forced to buckle down to get wins, and I think as a team you’re not able to build up the continuity and toughness in situations that ultimately defines the championship teams.
    In that sense, they remind me a lot of the 2003 Lakers with Malone and Payton, both of whom were still very servicable players alongside in-prime Shaq, in-prime Kobe, and some other good role players.

    the 2003 Pistons were not nearly as talented as the 2003 lakers.

  46. jon abbey

    ruruland:
    In that sense, they remind me a lot of the 2003 Lakers with Malone and Payton, both of whom were still very servicable players alongside in-prime Shaq, in-prime Kobe, and some other good role players.

    the 2003 Pistons were not nearly as talented as the 2003 lakers.

    I think the difference is that the 2003 Lakers’ collapse in the Finals wasn’t a playing style issue, it was mostly a ‘two main players have grown to hate each other’ issue. I don’t think this year’s version will have that problem, it’s just possible their pieces don’t fit together quite right.

  47. massive

    ruruland: I see them as being one of the greatest front-running teams of all-time, but the parts and system are so disparate I think they’ll have major diminishing returns problems. I don’t think their defense will ever elevate to anything more than good under MDA.

    And I don’t believe they’ll be able to maximize their incredible offensive pieces very consistently, and with what should be a pretty weak supporting cast, they can be defeated.

    But, yeah they’re going to go on some incredible runs this year and mow teams down for weeks.

    One thing about once-in-a-decade talented teams is that they are rarely forced to buckle down to get wins, and I think as a team you’re not able to build up the continuity and toughness in situations that ultimately defines the championship teams.
    In that sense, they remind me a lot of the 2003 Lakers with Malone and Payton, both of whom were still very servicable players alongside in-prime Shaq, in-prime Kobe, and some other good role players.

    the 2003 Pistons were not nearly as talented as the 2003 lakers.

    I don’t think they can beat the Spurs in a 7 game series. Popovich basically owns D’Antoni, and Tim Duncan is playing like it’s 2003 again.

  48. ruruland

    jon abbey: I think the difference is that the 2003 Lakers’ collapse in the Finals wasn’t a playing style issue, it was mostly a ‘two main players have grown to hate each other’ issue. I don’t think this year’s version will have that problem, it’s just possible their pieces don’t fit together quite right.

    I agree with that. But if you reduce Steve Nash’s touches by 30-40% how effective is he really? his inability to come close to defending opposing point guard, especially pg centric teams, is a big problem.

    He’s consistently been absolutely torched in the playoffs.

    I just think while you have some very good passing ability, all four of the Lakers best players are most effective with the ball in their hands creating for teammates or creating shots.

  49. massive

    Did D’Antoni’s Lakers hold the Nets to 33 2nd half points, or did the Nets just suck? I wasn’t really watching.

  50. JC Knickfan

    Wow, actually complaints about winning, I for one am so ready to see Knicks get #1 seed. Still don’t like odd beating Miami, but expectation quite high right now. I would actually be disappointed if Knicks don’t end up being a top 2 seed.

    I probably planting seed disappointed in near future. Amare seem to possible wildcard that could make this team become dysfunctional.

  51. johnno

    yellowboy90: Wow kid score 138 pts. Went 27-71 from 3. How do you shoot 71 3s in one game?

    I loved his comment after the game — “It felt like everything that I threw up was going in.” Whaaaa?? He shot 52 for 108 for the game, which is well under 50%! THCJ is screaming about what an “inefficient” scorer he is. And, for a change, I agree with him…

  52. johnno

    johnno: THCJ is screaming about what an “inefficient” scorer he is. And, for a change, I agree with him…

    Spoke too soon — on the other thread, THCJ is talking about how efficient the guy was. I guess I don’t agree with him this time…

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