2012-13 Game Thread: Jeremy Lin v. New York, UPDATE: Melo’s out
December 17th, 2012 by Robert Silverman | @BobSaietta | Comments | Permalink |
So, no Carmelo Anthony, but..to get you ready for Jeremy’s return, here’s Jim Cavan over at the Mothership:
1. Fact or Fiction: Jeremy Lin’s career peaked in New York.
Jim Cavan, KnickerBlogger: Fiction. Hanging 38 on the Lakers might seem an NBA lifetime ago, but let’s not forget that Jeremy Lin is 24 years old. Assuming he can still improve and become a productive player on a playoff-caliber team, there should be ample opportunity for Lin to show that those halcyon Garden days merely sparked, rather than defined, his unique story.
And here’s me chatting with the gang at TheKnicksWall.com
Once again, no matter the result, emotions are sure to be running high. I implore y’all, be kind to one another.
Hey, did you know that in addition to banging the keys here and occasionally for the NY Times, Robert is a playwright, an actor and a wand'ring mendicant/gadfly? He also once wrestled a bear...and lost.
Good for Melo to sit and get himself right. He has a tendency to sometimes rush through injuries and prolong their effects.
I have a pretty good feeling junior is going to have his best game of the season tonight.
Gee whiz, what you know:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8756203/deron-williams-brooklyn-nets-says-not-same-trade-utah-jazz
“And that system (in Utah) was a great system for my style of play. I’m a system player, and I loved Coach (Jerry) Sloan’s system. I loved the offense there. We could’ve been a really good team. We just weren’t that good defensively as a group.”
“I grew up in high school, my coach wasn’t one of those guys that would let us just throw out the ball and let us play,” Williams said. “We were a system team. We had staple plays that we relied on. We were good at execution. In college (at Illinois), we ran the motion offense. A lot of cutting, a lot passing, a lot of screening, a lot of extra passes. I’m used to just movement. So I’m still trying to adjust.”
Calling this a loss tonight with no Melo and Harden getting 15+ FTA.
Is there a more boring “star” to watch?
man this might be the worst suit I’ve ever seen clyde wear
Clyde’s jacket tonight is indescribable
For those not in front of a TV
http://twitter.com/BuzzFeedSports/status/280833012416016384/photo/1
Way too easy for the Rockets so far.
Trend of horrible 1st quarter defense continues for the Knicks.
Missed the beginning. Did Lin get a standing O?
This Rockets team lost to the freaking Raptors yesterday.
This is embarrassingly poor defense
One thing I will always defend and love about Melo: He never would have passed the ball to a teammate with 2 seconds left to avoid taking a shot that would lower his percentages. Rose does the same thing with end of the quarter 3′s, he takes every single one and he doesn’t give a shit about what it does to his shooting percentage if she’s shooting a bunch of half court shots.
Ruru called JR having a big game and so far so good.
Do you think not having Melo going off hurts the defense. Presumably teams FG% is higher after defensive rebounds.
I hate it when JR takes shots like that, but man, it’s awesome when they go in.
Damn, JR picks up 2nd foul before 1st quarter is even over.
It’s certainly harder to run in transition, and I’m sure that having the guards spacing the floor instead of penetrating helps them get back a little easier too. Offense and defense are certainly not independent of each other on a team level.
22 points in the paint already for Houston.
Prigioni-Kidd-White-Novak-Thomas. Guh, okay.
Chandler and Felton are gonna have to play 40 mins each if the Knicks are gonna win this game.
ugh
Boy one thing about Kidd, and I love him, is that he kills the penetration D.
Man, I wish we could trade Prigioni and Kurt Thomas for Amare and Shump. Oh wait. We are.
Do the Rockets have kryptonite?
Harden and Lin can dribble into the lane with their eyes closed its that easy for them right now.
Is that all on the guards?
Stupid play by Chandler
Let’s hope we don’t have to play Houston in the finals.
I guess it’s a flagrant but what was he supposed to do with his arms?
Knicks shooting tonight might actually be worse than their defense so far. Just keep it under double digits at half-time and hopefully in the 2nd half their shooting touch returns as does their defensive intensity. Rockets getting tired legs would be nice too since they are playing the 2nd of a back-to-back and 3rd game in 4 days.
lol
Kidd is playing wayyyyy too many minutes and it is showing on D
Did Lin just drive the paint left handed ?
shitty third foul calls on jr and tyson
Embarrassing night for the Knicks so far.
for the second half, can we just let harden shoot j’s? i know hes a great shooter, ut i would prefer that to the layup line
Knick guards can’t contain dribble penetration. Lin just blew by Kidd like he was a traffic cone and Chandler was forced to pick up his third foul.
Sorry guys, but Lin is embarrassing the Knicks in this one.
Now the Jets game has begun. Woe is me
If I was Woodson I’d pull the plug on this one early. Especially for Kidd.
The 3rd foul on Chandler was total crap. Kidd had blocked the shot clean from behind and Chandler barely touched Lin after he had lost the ball already.
What is everyone’s concern level on Carmelo’s injury? Anyone have any insight into why he hasn’t received an MRI or x ray?
One would assume bc he doesn’t need that.
HI Chris!!!!! a charge
Lin should piss on the Knicks logo at center court.
13-0 run. Game over.
Harden too.
Send in the subs. Dont need to see Chandler, Felton, Kidd for the rest of the night.
Lindictive?
Kidd has been terrible in this game. Very ineffective on both ends of the floor.
I didnt miss this feeling of being embarrassed as a Knicks fan. At least I can look at the standings after the game and feel good about them again though lol.
I blame this embarrassment on Tracy Morgan taking over the Knicks twitter feed for tonight’s game.
Quick guards have killed the Knicks all year. hello Shumpert.
Also, this would have been an ideal game to have Marcus Camby. He is the perfect guy to play clever penetrating guards who live in the paint. Defending those kind of forays is what he does really well on defense.
Is that supposed to mean something?
wat u dun getit ?????
Yeah, I mean shouldn’t the Knicks be totally awesome tonight? I mean, 3/5 of the starting lineup are WoW superstars Chandler, Kidd and Brewer, and that hack Carmelo Anthony isn’t out there to muck things up.
ya but wat abuot kidd he sill got da hops rite?
fallacey of big sampel size
I think I like this Jowles better than the usual one.
i think we have one of the best 11th (soon to be 13th) men in the league in Cope. thats something positive
Ruru just wait til this abomination of a game is over later tonight and link a page to the NBA standings in response to whatever glee THCJ will take from this game.
McHale, up 27 in the fourth quarter, has stuck with an 8-man rotation. That’s kind of odd.
the good thing about having this much depth is that our subs fight toothe and nail for playing time, which results in our guys playing hard all the time. cope and prigs and even novak and jr are atleast out there competing still
OK, I give up, Lin is better than Felton.
ya mabey u’r rite but, it is happy to see harden? he playing very good tonight?
are u drunk?
I also like this Jowles a lot better than the old one.
I cant argue with you there, I think Harden is great and disagree big time with the people here who try to minimize how good he is.
Harden looks pretty good when he’s being guarded by a 50-year old with the mobility of chocolate pudding.
Well at least Stu Jackson’s 1989-90 Knicks team is still in the record books for best home start to a season.
Ruru – please don’t list every Houston point this time.
what?
Last Houston game where the Knicks also lost you listed every Houston point. It was creepy.
The depressing thing about tonight is that if Lin and Felton had switched places, Lin playing for the Knicks and Felton for the Rockets, we would probably have won.
And the Knicks would have a worse record going into the game.
Unlikely. Last year when Lin was running the point for Woodson, we were briefly by far the best team in the NBA. And this was before we got Kidd and Sheed.
Lin has been playing badly in Houston because McHale has not allowed him to play his natural PG position. Normally this year, you would see Lin crossing midcourt, instantly dumping the ball to Harden, and moving to the corner for the rest of the possession. Under the McFail, Lin is not allowed to make plays; he’s forced to use the weakest part of his game, i.e. to be a spot up shooting guard. This game was unusual, probably because Lin just said “fuck it, McHale, I’ll play it my way for once”. And you see the results.
I fully expect the coach to force Lin to be a corner camper again next game — which was exactly what happened the game after Lin dropped 38/7 on the Spurs. Apparently that wasn’t good enough for McFail.
If we still had Lin, I doubt Woodson would be so stupid. Our record might even be better than it is.
Chandler is at career low in shot block %, and he doesn’t even try to protect the rim much of the time. I’m not sure if he’s trying to conserve his energy for offense, but there’s a big need for Marcus Camby on this team until Ty starts playing on the defensive end.
Where were you yesterday when Lin was stinkin’ up the joint in Toronto?
It’s an interesting question but I don’t think so. Lin has to much of a scorer’s mentality, and his turnovers are far to high.
I didn’t see the game.
How did Copeland’s points come? Did he create them, just hit open looks or what?
I guess it’s easy to say that the Rockets just have our number, but give me Shump to throw at Lin and Harden, and who exactly on Houston is guarding STAT? Oh, and we were missing some guy named Anthony tonight.
Anyone who makes a big deal out of this game, and also tries to turn it into a Lin vs. Felton referendum, is a complete moron.
We’ve been over this topic before, quite a few times.
James Harden is the best pick and roll player in the NBA (Melo is the second most efficient pnr scorer, Harden is a better pnr passer).
Having Harden in the game does not preclude Lin from running side pnr, driving against his man in isolation (where he was best last year) or driving against a rotation.
In fact, he’s done all of those things with Harden in the game. The problem is that much of the time Lin struggles and becomes quite passive with the ball.
He seems to get a lot more aggressive with the ball in his hands when Harden leaves the game.
It’s hard to be a good nba point guard when you have to dominate the ball and can’t shoot.
I would expect Lin to start playing more assertively as the season progresses with Harden in the game, I’m not so sure if/when he can improve his jump shooting, nor am I sure that his finishing is something he can consistently count on.
he is a good playmaker, and along with Felton, one of the better penetrating guards in the league. That always helps an offense.
Would I want Lin on my team? Yes, especially if he was taking Prig’s minutes. I always felt the team should have re-signed Lin because of his upside as a third scorer and playmaker, even if he wasn’t as good of a fit as Felton.
But it was a business decision that actually was quite prudent financially.
Good for Lin tonight. could be a jump-start for them. They’e a very dangerous offensive team and will have a chance to sneak into a great western conference.
Knicks isolation defense is worst in league. Shumpert was one of the premier isolation defenders last year.
Knicks are fifth worst team in paint fg% allowed. Yeah, Camby and Chandler deciding to play.
If the Knicks had Lin instead of Felton they would be better than 18-6?? Damn.
The posting limit means I’ll have to trim off lots of your long message.
Did you notice that Harden scored 28 points tonight on 50% shooting? An offense run by Lin doesn’t hurt the Beard.
Tell that to the Houston coaches. Normally Lin gets no pnr plays — none.
As I said, tonight was very unusual.
It’s hard to be aggressive when you are ordered to camp in the corner and get no pnr plays. That by the way was exactly what occurred against the Raptors yesterday. You would think McFail would realize that Lin could blow by Calderon at will, but that was obviously not the game plan. Lin was forced to dump to ball to Harden, Parsons, even Morris — do anything except make Calderon play defense. Because of this brilliant game plan, the Rockets lost.
I doubt Lin will be allowed to be more aggressive. Next game it’s back to the salt mines for him.
Lin was involved in 38 points tonight (22 scored, 8 assists); Felton, 22. The difference is more than the losing margin. If the two guards had…
Damn, another cut off. Here’s the last sentence again:
If the two guards had been interchanged, we would have won.
Quite possibly, BigBlueAl. Remember, we were 6-1 with Lin and Woodson and had the best point differential in the NBA during that period (even if you ignore the 40+ point blowout against the tanking Blazers).
Also, we have Kidd and Sheed this year. Our record could possibly have been better than 18-6 with Lin.
Lin has to much of a scorer’s mentality, and his turnovers are far to high.
Not this season. Lin’s ball-handling, passing, and judgement while handling the ball have improved. He’s not looking to score as much, either, but it’s hard to say whether that’s by his own choice or the system.
Shumpert is going to take Prigioni’s minutes plus some of Kidd’s, for a helluva four man guard rotation.
hopefully we have more players next game, Melo, Sheed, almost anyone would help.
quote of the night from Clyde, I think in the second or third quarter after Chandler blocked a ball that didn’t count anyway because they called an offensive foul just before: “finally, Chandler shows some tenacity.”
the Lin fanboys are back tonight. glad we’re done with Houston for the season now, for multiple reasons.
Right? These Houston games are dreadfully annoying.
That’s right, Jon, run away and hide.
The next time we have a Feltdown, you’ll remember what Lin’s team did to us this season — twice.
By the way, I’m still a Knicks fan. It’s just that with Lin in Houston I’m watching twice as many basketball games as usual. That is why I hardly post here anymore: I have a lot less time now.
I posted this on the game recap but will post it here as well because it seems the Lin/Felton discussion is still going on.
For this team Felton>>>Lin. Why? He’s better PNR player- much better. Last year Lin averaged .8 ppp on the pnr (that includes turning it over a whopping 25.9% of the time). This year Felton is averaging .79 ppp on the pnr and turning it over 12.9% of the time. Well, you could say, even with the turnovers Lin is still averaging a bit more in terms of ppp so he’s better. But, lets look at how the roll man is doing- Chandler’s been far better with Felton. He’s the number one roll man in the league, averaging 1.44 ppp and turning it over just 3.5% of the time. Last year he averaged 1.18 ppp and turned it over 11.2% of the time as the roll man. Now that includes the rest of the season where he was running it with other guys but considering his TS% was .664 with Lin starting (actually worse than he averaged without him) and his turnovers pretty much the same- 17.2 with, 17.1 without- I don’t think you can say those numbers are misleading. Yes, Kidd is helping and Chandler’s numbers were probably hurt by the wrist injury last year but those numbers aren’t even remotely close. Also, Felton’s low turnover numbers have a real benefit that doesn’t show up in the ppp numbers- he gets the ball up to the rim more often and as we’ve seen Chandler has gotten a ton of putbacks on those shots. You can’t get a putback off of a turnover. Given how often the Knick run pnr with Felton/Chandler those numbers outweigh any vague intangibles you might claim on Lin’s behalf.
you haven’t been here very long if you think I’m running away, and the second sentence is just idiotic, but whatever gets you through the night.
the matchup issue with HOU seems to be Asik maybe more than the guards, add him to the short list of guys who give Chandler big problems on the offensive end (NY’s offensive end, I mean).
I think it wouldve been more appropriate if he had written Harden’s team lol.
and actually…
even if I did remember this, my next thought would be about how Lin let Jose Calderon light him up the day before for a triple double (including 14 assists), and then be thankful that kind of thing doesn’t happen to NY much anymore.
And Lin lit up Calderon in the previous 2 meetings. Whereas we’re 0-2 against the Rockets.
Anyway, time will tell.