Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 23, 2014

2012-13 Game Thread and Image Gallery: Knicks v. Spurs

The last time the Knicks played the Spurs was just awesome.  An improbable 4th quarter comeback brought about by defense, heady plays, timely buckets, and fantastic floor spacing.  This team sure could use some of that awesomeness tonight.

Speaking of awesome, instead of the stats and analysis I usually offer, which most of you have figured out isn’t all that insightful, check out these images courtesy of Jesse Blanchard of 48 minutes of hell.  Here’s hoping this is the most awesome Duncan will look tonight. Go New York, go New York go!

208 comments on “2012-13 Game Thread and Image Gallery: Knicks v. Spurs

  1. ephus

    johnlocke:
    JR should start! We need a Start JR movement… he plays the whole game anyway…

    Why? He is playing great. If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.

  2. johnlocke

    Amare’s “I’ve never been taught defense” line is pretty scary – understandable, but still scary. Has he ever been taught to ask questions, such as “Hey coach, these guys seem to be just blowing by me, what do I do about that?” I’m sure they wouldn’t have said…”Don’t worry about that bro, it’s all good, just keep dunking”

  3. johnlocke

    B/c by the time he gets in, Brewer has already missed 4 open jumpers and played mediocre help defense and we’re down 10 in the first 8 minutes. The 1st quarter starts is broke – it needs fixing. You think that by starting he’s going to play worse? I don’t buy that at all.

    ephus: Why?He is playing great.If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.

  4. ephus

    First and foremost, I trust Woodson to know how to best utilize JR Smith. He has succeeded where all others have failed.

    I agree that the Knicks have to improve their first quarter starts, but I would like to see what Camby (and eventually Shumpert) can do.

  5. cgreene

    Tired of the over analysis of the Amare quote. The guy is a crappy public speaker and his bball IQ is not great. The quote wasnt revealing.

  6. BigBlueAL

    Sean Elliot just said one of the reasons the Knicks are doing good this season is because they are playing much better defense than last season. lol

  7. ephus

    Neither team is sending anyone to the offensive glass. Expect a low scoring game with few fast break opportunities.

  8. maxwell_3g

    stuck in league pass homervision land. i dont know if i can take sean elliot for a full 48 minutes

  9. ephus

    Amar’e and JR Smith into the game with 6:30 to go in the first quarter. Let’s see if this unit can play defense.

  10. Hubert Davis

    And Diaw comes in as soon as Amar’e gets on the floor. Like a lefty specialist in the bullpen.

  11. Robtachi

    Y’know, seeing the old footage in MSG promos, I can no longer even imagine the Knicks in the unis from last year. Niggling complaints aside, these new old duds are much more ubiquitous to Knickdom to my eyes.

  12. ephus

    Sarcasm alert — If only Stephen Jackson was tougher, he would have been able to walk off that twisted ankle.

  13. ruruland

    I know it’s 4 in 5 for SA, but great team defense there. Amar’e was pretty much perfect in his rotations and close-outs.

  14. flossy

    Amar’e looks like he’s in a preseason on offense, but the focus on defense is at least encouraging. Couple of nice plays against Ginobili of all people.

  15. ruruland

    flossy:
    Amar’e looks like he’s in a preseason on offense, but the focus on defense is at least encouraging.Couple of nice plays against Ginobili of all people.

    1-1 sequences against Ginobli,too. Those were set up, IMO, by the first 6-minutes of team defense that close everything down in the paint.

    That has a psychological effect on drivers as the game goes on, and that’s how the defense is built. It will yield some open shots at times.

  16. ruruland

    flossy: Bite your tongue, Clyde is a god

    Every game I’m forced to mute. Dolan should dig a little deeper and hire JVG, let Clyde take Baron’s job.

  17. flossy

    ruruland: Every game I’m forced to mute. Dolan should dig a little deeper and hire JVG, let Clyde take Baron’s job.

    Jeff Van Gundy wouldn’t cross the street to piss on James Dolan if he were on fire

  18. maxwell_3g

    dont understand the non staggered subs. why would we ever have a lineup without melo, stat, or jr out there. at least oe of our volume scorers should be in there a all times

  19. BigBlueAL

    ruruland: Every game I’m forced to mute. Dolan should dig a little deeper and hire JVG, let Clyde take Baron’s job.

    If they ever re-hire JVG again it better not be as a broadcaster but as head coach.

  20. ruruland

    flossy: Jeff Van Gundy wouldn’t cross the street to piss on James Dolan if he were on fire

    Right, forgot about all that.

  21. ruruland

    maxwell_3g:
    dont understand the non staggered subs. why would we ever have a lineup without melo, stat, or jr out there.at least oe of our volume scorers should be in there a all times

    JR with 2 fouls and Amar’e can’t go for more than 5 minutes right now.

  22. ruruland

    maxwell_3g: that was a really impressive rebound. the entry pass to melo?not so much

    What about the first one?

    Someone besides Kidd who can make defenders pay for overplaying him so much, as Pop has always done with Melo.

  23. Hubert Davis

    Clever play there by Duncan holding Chandler’s jersey so he couldn’t get in the lane to challenge Parker. Refs always too gutless to call that on him.

  24. maxwell_3g

    cgreene:
    Copeland killing us

    ive htough hi defense has been pretty good. he uses his long arms well disrupting the dribble. he has been sloppy on offense

  25. ruruland

    cgreene:
    Wide open 3 after wide open 3

    You do realize that no team in the NBA can always cover a team that spreads you out like the Spurs with Parker getting into the middle of the defense?

    The last one Copeland recovered right in time.

    This is not the NBA of the ’90s. It’s just not physically possible to always cover every inch of the floor against these kinds of teams.

  26. JK47

    The Spurs are a deadly 3-point shooting team; they are very good at creating those shots. The Knicks are very fortunate that SAS is only 5-16 from deep in this game.

    On the flip side, the Spurs have only 4 points in the paint, so no layup line tonight.

  27. ruruland

    JK47:
    The Spurs are a deadly 3-point shooting team; they are very good at creating those shots.The Knicks are very fortunate that SAS is only 5-16 from deep in this game.

    On the flip side, the Spurs have only 4 points in the paint, so no layup line tonight.

    They are clearly taking away the paint. Have to take away one, the defense is being built to take away layups.

  28. BigBlueAL

    Yeah as I mentioned earlier the Knicks are still allowing a ton of open 3pters vs a very good 3pt shooting team which is dangerous but they are doing a much, much, much better job protecting the paint tonight which is a big improvement over the past couple of weeks.

  29. BigBlueAL

    Awful end to the half. No way Knicks should only be up 2, hope it doesnt bite them in the ass in the end.

  30. maxwell_3g

    pretty disappointing to be only up 2. this is a giveaway game for them. they are willing to curl up and die if we put some pressure on them, but we are letting them hang

  31. cgreene

    Terribe terrible substitutions by Woodson. No one to guard Parker on the floor so he was switching Copeland and Chandler?? Way too many minutes for Copeland. Should have had Prigs in there at the end. No idea what that was.

  32. JK47

    It’s not just that Brewer always misses– the shots look like there’s just no way they’re ever gonna go in. His form is beyond fugly and he usually barely catches iron.

    I mean that is one hideous jump shot. His jumper looks like a Bill Cartwright FTA.

  33. BigBlueAL

    AnonymousODG:
    We limit them to 40, are knocking down 3?s really well… and we’re only up by 2???

    Knicks shooting 7 for 21 on 2pters, 4 for 8 FT’s plus had 9 to’s.

  34. johnlocke

    Brewer, Camby and Noah are co-winners of the ugliest looking jump shot competition

    JK47:
    It’s not just that Brewer always misses– the shots look like there’s just no way they’re ever gonna go in.His form is beyond fugly and he usually barely catches iron.

    I mean that is one hideous jump shot.His jumper looks like a Bill Cartwright FTA.

  35. ephus

    I am pretty certain that Woodson did not draw up the defense to give Ginobli repeated wide open corner 3s. That is something that Woodson has to fix at halftime.

    One other adjustment is that San Antonio is fronting ‘Melo and sending a second defender as soon as the lob is in the air. Knicks on the weakside need to move to give ‘Melo a target for a quick pass out of the double.

  36. AnonymousODG

    BigBlueAL: Knicks shooting 7 for 21 on 2pters, 4 for 8 FT’s plus had 9 to’s.

    This makes too much sense to be true. There’s a conspiracy afoot here! >:|

  37. johnlocke

    By the way, if someone can tell me one thing Brewer does better than JR I’d understand him still starting. When the argument was that he plays better D, I was cool with it, but JR is a better everything right now.

  38. ephus

    joengai:
    most awkward new york minute ever

    +1. As soon as Leguizamo uttered the phrase “ghetto bike” you could see that they wanted to dump the segment.

  39. massive

    I hope nobody is worried about Melo not being able to play the 3 efficiently because of tonight. He’s 4 for 12 for 13 points, but note that his performance at the 4 against San Antonio was a lot worse. 9 points on 3 for 12 I believe was the line.

  40. cgreene

    johnlocke:
    By the way, if someone can tell me one thing Brewer does better than JR I’d understand him still starting. When the argument was that he plays better D, I was cool with it, but JR is a better everything right now.

    At least the backcourt rotations are coming into focus. Shump gets all of Ronnie’s mins plus some of Prigs

  41. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    By the way, if someone can tell me one thing Brewer does better than JR I’d understand him still starting. When the argument was that he plays better D, I was cool with it, but JR is a better everything right now.

    hey man. we all know that JR is better in every aspect. but JR is also playing his best ball ever coming off the bench as the primary scorer of the second unit. if brewer were on the second unit, who would score. the long term solution is shump playing the 3rd guard poisition in the starting lineup when he returns.

  42. Thomas B. Post author

    maxwell_3g:
    stuck in league pass homervision land.i dont know if i can take sean elliot for a full 48 minutes

    He is why the Spurs blog is called 48 minutes of hell.

  43. johnlocke

    Yeh don’t want to belabor the point. I guess I’m just a big believer in starting and finishing with your best 5 unless there is a synergy reason to not do so in the starting unit. Shump once back fully healthy and in the flow, if back to his old self, should start because he brings that elite defense that Brew is not.

    maxwell_3g: hey man.we all know that JR is better in every aspect.but JR is also playing his best ball ever coming off the bench as the primary scorer of the second unit.if brewer were on the second unit, who would score.the long term solution is shump playing the 3rd guard poisition in the starting lineup when he returns.

  44. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    Yeh don’t want to belabor the point. I guess I’m just a big believer in starting and finishing with your best 5 unless there is a synergy reason to not do so in the starting unit. Shump once back fully healthy and in the flow, if back to his old self, should start because he brings that elite defense that Brew is not.

    i just think there are 2 reasons to keep jr where he is. first, he is thriving. second, ou have to stagger your scorers minutes over 48 minutes for maximum efficiency. there is only one basketball

  45. BigBlueAL

    Its amazing (although not really shocking) how much better the Knicks defense and rebounding are with both Camby and Chandler in their.

  46. AnonymousODG

    I really like that we are not running Melo ragged for 40+ min a game. And hoping for a huge shooting night from J.R. They’re making this look like a basketball team with everyone contributing.

  47. ephus

    Even though Stat missed that 13′ jumper, that was great ball movement by the Knicks leading to a wide open shot. Once the rust has worn off, Stat will consistently make that shot.

  48. maxwell_3g

    BigBlueAL:
    Amar’e doesnt seem to have much lift tonight but he does seem pretty quick.

    the problem is he beats people left but then needs to go back to his right to finish

  49. ruruland

    BigBlueAL:
    Amar’e doesnt seem to have much lift tonight but he does seem pretty quick.

    He’ll get there. He’s shown that explosion in practice and Erie apparently. So much harder to do it when you aren’t conditioned.

  50. ruruland

    Melo is doing a great job anticipating the Spurs help, San Antonio is enticing him into certain parts of the floor where they help. Melo’s smarts are extremely underrated.

    At some point his passing will look a lot different number wise.

  51. flossy

    The Melo pass to Amar’e off the double is exactly why those two can play together. That pass will be there a lot and Amar’e will be crushing those shots soon.

    Amar’e playing good defense and could easily have 11 points in 15 minutes if a couple shots didn’t just roll out.

  52. cgreene

    flossy:
    The Melo pass to Amar’e off the double is exactly why those two can play together.That pass will be there a lot and Amar’e will be crushing those shots soon.

    Amar’e playing good defense and could easily have 11 points in 15 minutes if a couple shots didn’t just roll out.

    Agreed

  53. maxwell_3g

    ephus:
    JR Smith had better form on that half-court buzzer beater than Brewer has on his free throws.

    can we also agree that jr loves those situations because he can just chuick with no remorse

  54. Thomas B. Post author

    There was a time when DeJuan Blair looked like the steal of the draft, why can’t he get any burn these days?

  55. cgreene

    Did exactly what we should have done to this old team on 4th in 5 right there. Good to see!!!

  56. ephus

    What a great sequence by ‘Melo. First he hits the elbow jumper off of the screen and screen-handoff. Then he boxes out big time to allow the Knicks to collect an easy defensive rebound. And, just for grins, he catches on the elbow and finds Novak wide open for the 3.

    This is a great time to be a Knick fan.

  57. JK47

    Obviously Amar’e's timing is not quite there yet but he’s going to bring a lot to the table once he gets into a groove. He’s the kind of player that is really dependent on being in just the right rhythm, so it’s going to take a minute, but you can just visualize what it’ll look like when he gets it going.

    Nice game from Prigs tonight– 8 assists, no turnovers, and Kidd has gotten plenty of rest.

  58. maxwell_3g

    elo:
    Prigs is out there causing pg controversy lol

    slow your roll. prigs is a perfectly fine, scrappy, heady backup pg. im more than happy with him, but he aint a starter

  59. johnlocke

    Prigs is playing very well tonight. Smart basketball. I think he can do work with Amare, once Amare gets acclimated (usually takes about 10 games or so)… Nowitzki just starting to round into form

    elo:
    Prigs is out there causing pg controversy lol

  60. Nick C.

    Speaking of great passes out of double teams by Melo. Catch, pause and across the top of the FT line for a Novak three.

  61. johnlocke

    By the way, my start this man above was for JR, not Prigs..haha. I know no one wants to jump aboard, but I think it would help the team. Another asset of JR, he just never really seems to be tired, ever.

  62. ephus

    Unless San Antonio closes within 11, I do not think we will see Duncan on the court again tonight.

  63. JK47

    Knicks are playing some GREAT ball in this second half. They’ve stopped turning the ball over, they’re knocking down their shots and they’re locking down the defensive boards.

  64. johnlocke

    If we can be up by 15 or so with 5 minutes left… let’s get some amare practice time out there

  65. Nick C.

    Novak was just gone after on the last three of four possessions or so: miss, pass off for another miss, steal. This must be what Synergy is “documenting.”

  66. JK47

    23 assists on 33 buckets for NYK, one turnover in the second half, 41-28 edge in rebounding.

    THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN’ ‘BOUT

  67. thenamestsam

    Definitely a big improvement on the d tonight, but also a lot of fool’s gold out there right now. Keeping them out of the paint and rebounding their misses are a great start but they had open 3 after open 3 and just missed them – not unusual for a tired team. Defense still has a long way to go.

  68. ephus

    ephus: There is nothing that JR Smith cannot do on a basketball court.

    There are no words to describe that dunk. I love JR!

    This is a great time to be a Knick fan.

  69. maxwell_3g

    i will say that stat looks quick. he doesnt have that explosion to finish and send defenders running for cover however. dont know if thats ever really coming back

  70. JK47

    JR’s athleticism is f’ing insane. He’s just a freak. I can’t even imagine what it must feel like to be able to throw down a dunk like that.

    It is a joy to watch that guy display his physical gifts. His legend just grows.

  71. johnlocke

    I loves me some good JR! Over the last 10-15 games very few SGs have played better in the league and he’s arguably been the 2nd best player on the team

  72. ruruland

    maxwell_3g:
    i will say that stat looks quick.he doesnt have that explosion to finish and send defenders running for cover however.dont know if thats ever really coming back

    Just wait, my god

  73. maxwell_3g

    big win tonight. emperor david stern gave us a gift with the scheduling, but we still won the game.

  74. johnlocke

    Start the man! The bench does not have mystical voodoo powers.

    JK47:
    JR’s athleticism is f’ing insane.He’s just a freak.I can’t even imagine what it must feel like to be able to throw down a dunk like that.

    It is a joy to watch that guy display his physical gifts.His legend just grows.

  75. johnlocke

    Watching snippets of the Amare pnr, its going to be tough for teams to stop Felton penetration in amare pnr…should get interesting

  76. ruruland

    thenamestsam:
    Definitely a big improvement on the d tonight, but also a lot of fool’s gold out there right now. Keeping them out of the paint and rebounding their misses are a great start but they had open 3 after open 3 and just missed them – not unusual for a tired team. Defense still has a long way to go.

    Totally disagree.

    They finished with 12 paint points. They make 5 more 3s they still get held well below their average efficiency.

    It was their lowest scoring output of he year lmfao.

  77. johnlocke

    That alley oop gets a minimum of a 9 in a preplanned dunk contest, muchless live action…just sick!

  78. ruruland

    maxwell_3g:
    big win tonight.emperor david stern gave us a gift with the scheduling, but we still won the game.

    No, every team plays 4 in 5 and b2b, every team gets to play against 4 in 5 and b2b. Knicks have played a lot more than they faced so far.

  79. Shad0wF0x

    johnlocke:
    That alley oop gets a minimum of a 9 in a preplanned dunk contest, muchless live action…just sick!

    In-Game dunks always look better than Slam Dunk Contest dunks. Maybe one of the contestants should have a fake 5 on 5 going and setup a dunking play for himself.

  80. ruruland

    San Antonio is 4th in league in points in paint per game. They were held 32 points below average. That’s defense.

  81. johnlocke

    Agreed. He plays the 2nd or 3rd most minutes on the team. If we had Danny Green or Sefolosha (sp?) as our starting 2 instead of Brewer, I’d be okay with it. But this is the first time in 7 games we’ve had a first quarter lead at the end of the first and the start sets a momentum for the rest of the game. Once Shump comes back I’d be fine having JR as the 6th guy, because Shump is a serviceable starter, Brewer is not and JR is playing like a border-line all star. I get why there is resistance, but JR will not play worse if he starts, in fact he’s wanted to start all season.

    ruruland: I think it’s a trivial issue given his mpg

  82. BigBlueAL

    johnlocke:
    Agreed. He plays the 2nd or 3rd most minutes on the team. If we had Danny Green or Sefolosha (sp?) as our starting 2 instead of Brewer, I’d be okay with it. But this is the first time in 7 games we’ve had a first quarter lead at the end of the first and the start sets a momentum for the rest of the game. Once Shump comes back I’d be fine having JR as the 6th guy, because Shump is a serviceable starter, Brewer is not and JR is playing like a border-line all star. I get why there is resistance, but JR will not play worse if he starts, in fact he’s wanted to start all season.

    Also once Felton returns Knicks could just use a “regular” starting lineup with Melo at the 3 and either Camby or Amar’e at the 4. Obviously Kidd or Shump starts at the 2.

  83. nicos

    Nice to see how many open threes the Knicks got out of the Amar’e/Prigs pnr- something that’s been missing since Felton’s been out. Prigioni only shot 3-9 but his willingness to turn the corner on the pnr- which he hasn’t done a whole lot thus far this season- really made a difference. His game tonight was Felton with lower usage- really effective despite the poor shooting numbers. And once Amar’e gets his legs under him…

  84. jon abbey

    JR Smith with the mammoth all-around effort, +27 in 27 minutes. Chandler showed up tonight, that points in the paint stat is amazing. nice to see Kidd’s minutes limited, hopefully he finds a second wind soon.

    so that makes up for one or both of those last two losses, can’t believe we somehow swept SA.

  85. johnlocke

    Btw…JR was a jaw-dropping +27 tonight. Next highest was a +16. The man is balling and if the coaches think the Knicks like the Heat should have 3 all-stars, JR should join Chandler in the all-star game if he keeps this up. 20 points, 9-17 and a master blaster tonight to go with solid D.

  86. johnlocke

    you beat me to it =)

    jon abbey:
    JR Smith with the mammoth all-around effort, +27 in 27 minutes. Chandler showed up tonight, that points in the paint stat is amazing. nice to see Kidd’s minutes limited, hopefully he finds a second wind soon.

    so that makes up for one or both of those last two losses, can’t believe we somehow swept SA.

  87. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    oh, and Amare looked decidedly better, good to see.

    On defense. Not sure why Breen and Clyde could not understand his comments about coaching

  88. flossy

    Hah! Apparently Stephen Jackson tripped over a waitress who was serving Mike Bloomberg at courtside.

  89. ruruland

    nicos:
    Nice to see how many open threes the Knicks got out of the Amar’e/Prigs pnr- something that’s been missing since Felton’s been out.Prigioni only shot 3-9 but his willingness to turn the corner on the pnr- which he hasn’t done a whole lot thus far this season- really made a difference.His game tonight was Felton with lower usage- really effective despite the poor shooting numbers.And once Amar’e gets his legs under him…

    Agreed. Also, Camby Chandler looked ridiculously good on defense.

  90. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: Also once Felton returns Knicks could just use a “regular” starting lineup with Melo at the 3 and either Camby or Amar’e at the 4.Obviously Kidd or Shump starts at the 2.

    How about Felton, Shump, melo, chandler Camby?

  91. d-mar

    Had to listen to most of the game on the car radio (and btw Spiro Dedes and Brendan Brown do an excellent job) Hard to tell if the Knicks played great D or if the Spurs just missed a lot of open shots. Can someone enlighten me?

    Also is there a statistic for won-loss records on the 4th game in 5 nights? Wondering if it’s as bad as we would expect.

    Either way, great bounce back win.

  92. jon abbey

    ruruland: On defense. Not sure why Breen and Clyde could not understand his comments about coaching

    there”s not much to understand, the sooner they’re forgotten, the better. as someone said on Twitter, Shawn Marion didn’t seem to have any problems learning D under D’Antoni.

  93. massive

    I have a few thoughts after tonight’s game:

    1) Amar’e, Melo, and Chandler can coexist on the basketball court. Amar’e is actually a really good defender once he knows what he’s doing, and his ability to move off of the ball bodes well for weakside attacks to the basket.

    2) The Knicks will be scary good in the playoffs if they can seriously just turn on the intensity and dominate teams like they did the Spurs tonight.

    3) Prigioni’s reluctance to shoot and Jason Kidd’s inability to get off a good shot does not hurt the offense anywhere near as much as Felton’s nightly “4-15″ brick-fest did. I hope he takes his time to get his hands right so he can actually make open jumpers.

    4) I fully expected Tony Parker and Tim Duncan to combine for 60 points tonight, but the Knicks’ defense was great. I’m starting to believe the two most important positions on defense are “rim-protecting big” and “NBA Head Coach.” You need your anchor and your principles to be an elite defensive team in this league. Kidd (at this point in his career), Melo, and Novak are not known for their on-ball defense, but they each played great defense tonight.

    Overall, great win. Go Knicks.

  94. DRed

    Just got home from watching Django-this score is a pleasant surprise. Always nice to come back to a game thread worth reading. Did we shut down Parker with defensive ace Stevie Novak?

  95. Juany8

    Didn’t watch the game, but this game all but confirmed that the Knicks only defensive problem is being an old ass team. After so much time playing, does Jason Kidd really get up for regular season games against Portland anymore? Does Chandler? If anyone read the Skeptical Sports site I posted yesterday, Morris did an analysis comparing early season stats and late season stats vs. playoff success, and it seems that doing well early in the season is a better indicator of postseason performance. This might seem a bit counterintuitive, but if you think about it, early in the season teams are fresh and have lots of practice time, so they are better prepared and more “excited” for each opponent, much like they will play in the playoffs. Obviously this doesn’t apply to teams that drastically change their roster mid season (injuries or otherwise) but I have noticed that this team doesn;t play with the same intensity on any given game anymore, and that a lot of really cool plays Woodson ran early in the season (often to spectacular results) have gone missing. I don’t think Woodson forgot and told Melo to post up every time, I think he’s keeping some tricks up his sleeve for specific moments in the playoffs.

    In particular, the Knicks ran a lot of plays early on that involved someone setting a screen for another screener, totally throwing off the opponent’s defense. Another memorable one was Tyson setting a screen with Melo going one way and Kidd the other, which resulted in a bunch of attention to Melo, who passed it to an open Kidd, who then abused the rotations by setting up Chandler for an alley-oop.

    I think the Knicks are a top 5 team, and a bunch of small injuries have done nothing to change my opinion.

  96. Juany8

    Also, am I the only person who’s noticed that Kevin Love is no longer putting up monster games now that he’s not on a terrible team? I have a theory that teams don’t pay much attention to stopping “stars” until they’re on good teams. I think that’s part of the reason coaches say that stats on a bad team are meaningless, it is very possible to accumulate stats in a way that is actually detrimental to winning. Not that guys like Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are bad players, just that we should wait to see how they do in the playoffs before we’re calling them a top 3 player at their position.

  97. DRed

    Juany8:
    Also, am I the only person who’s noticed that Kevin Love is no longer putting up monster games now that he’s not on a terrible team? I have a theory that teams don’t pay much attention to stopping “stars” until they’re on good teams. I think that’s part of the reason coaches say that stats on a bad team are meaningless, it is very possible to accumulate stats in a way that is actually detrimental to winning. Not that guys like Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are bad players, just that we should wait to see how they do in the playoffs before we’re calling them a top 3 player at their position.

    Love’s shooting numbers have really plummeted this year. Even his free throw shooting is far worse than it’s been during his career. I doubt he’s shooting FT’s much more poorly because he’s on a decent team. I think it’s much more likely that his injuries are to blame.

  98. ruruland

    Juany8:
    Didn’t watch the game, but this game all but confirmed that the Knicks only defensive problem is being an old ass team. After so much time playing, does Jason Kidd really get up for regular season games against Portland anymore? Does Chandler? If anyone read the Skeptical Sports site I posted yesterday, Morris did an analysis comparing early season stats and late season stats vs. playoff success, and it seems that doing well early in the season is a better indicator of postseason performance. This might seem a bit counterintuitive, but if you think about it, early in the season teams are fresh and have lots of practice time, so they are better prepared and more “excited” for each opponent, much like they will play in the playoffs. Obviously this doesn’t apply to teams that drastically change their roster mid season (injuries or otherwise) but I have noticed that this team doesn;t play with the same intensity on any given game anymore, and that a lot of really cool plays Woodson ran early in the season (often to spectacular results) have gone missing. I don’t think Woodson forgot and told Melo to post up every time, I think he’s keeping some tricks up his sleeve for specific moments in the playoffs.

    In particular, the Knicks ran a lot of plays early on that involved someone setting a screen for another screener, totally throwing off the opponent’s defense. Another memorable one was Tyson setting a screen with Melo going one way and Kidd the other, which resulted in a bunch of attention to Melo, who passed it to an open Kidd, who then abused the rotations by setting up Chandler for an

    I agree with a lot of this, but Woodson has used a lot of really cool misdirection plays this year that I’m sure were created in response to the Heat series.

  99. ruruland

    DRed: Love’s shooting numbers have really plummeted this year.Even his free throw shooting is far worse than it’s been during his career.I doubt he’s shooting FT’s much more poorly because he’s on a decent team.I think it’s much more likely that his injuries are to blame.

    I agree. Love scores in a lot of different ways that you can’t really prepare for it…. He does a little bit of everything, and most of his scoring is not something you can really prepare to slow down.

    He plays pick and pop, a lot of offensive rebound points, transition 3s, an occasional drive and post-up. He’s the ultimate garbage scorer.

    He’s not someone a guy like Pop would ever build his defense around containing like he did again with Melo tonight (and does every time they play Melo).

    He’s an incredible rebounder, impacts the game quite a bit, but I don’t think he’s a superstar because he can’t influence a set defense like the other greats.

    those extra possessions certainly are valuable though, there’s not denying that.

  100. ruruland

    massive:
    I have a few thoughts after tonight’s game:

    1) Amar’e, Melo, and Chandler can coexist on the basketball court. Amar’e is actually a really good defender once he knows what he’s doing, and his ability to move off of the ball bodes well for weakside attacks to the basket.

    2) The Knicks will be scary good in the playoffs if they can seriously just turn on the intensity and dominate teams like they did the Spurs tonight.

    3) Prigioni’s reluctance to shoot and Jason Kidd’s inability to get off a good shot does not hurt the offense anywhere near as much as Felton’s nightly “4-15? brick-fest did. I hope he takes his time to get his hands right so he can actually make open jumpers.

    4) I fully expected Tony Parker and Tim Duncan to combine for 60 points tonight, but the Knicks’ defense was great. I’m starting to believe the two most important positions on defense are “rim-protecting big” and “NBA Head Coach.” You need your anchor and your principles to be an elite defensive team in this league. Kidd (at this point in his career), Melo, and Novak are not known for their on-ball defense, but they each played great defense tonight.

    Overall, great win. Go Knicks.

    Great post. Melo’s been a good on-ball defender inside the 3pt line his whole career. His help defense was superb tonight, as was the team’s.

    Championship caliber team defense.

  101. Juany8

    DRed: Love’s shooting numbers have really plummeted this year.Even his free throw shooting is far worse than it’s been during his career.I doubt he’s shooting FT’s much more poorly because he’s on a decent team.I think it’s much more likely that his injuries are to blame.

    Kevin Love’s slow start can be explained by injuries, but he’s been shooting perfectly fine on free throws lately and his offense is still awful. The guy’s had 1 game this season with a TS% above .600 this whole year. I expected a slow start, but at some point the injury stops being an excuse, especially since he is a pretty bad defender. His rebounding is perfectly fine too, but I had a problem with Kevin Love last year when he was putting up awesome scoring numbers but rarely taking over games offensively in the way someone like Melo, Kobe, or Rose can. I mean, you’re going up against Kenneth Faried and go 4-14? (5 for 5 on free throws)

    Kevin Love is a nice player to have, but most people were calling him the best PF in the league last year despite some pretty bad defense. Now he can’t even get his “garbage scoring” efficiently, he needed to get BETTER to be a true superstar, and instead has been significantly worse. Same thing happened with Blake Griffin, after an awesome rookie year people started paying more attention, and his numbers have remained steady or even dipped a bit since then. What’s more likely, that Griffin hasn’t improved at all in two years, even though he got Chris freaking Paul as a teammate, or that his rookie numbers were inflated because teams weren’t exactly scouting the Clippers as seriously as the Lakers?

  102. DRed

    How do you go from approvingly citing a series of articles that basically argue that Dennis Rodman was more valuable than Michael Jordan to writing “I had a problem with Kevin Love last year when he was putting up awesome scoring numbers but rarely taking over games offensively in the way someone like Melo, Kobe, or Rose can.”?

    I also don’t understand why Kevin Love’s allegedly bad defense has anything to do with injuries possibly effecting his shooting stroke. Either his injuries have effected his shooting or they haven’t. His defense is irrelevant.

  103. Juany8

    DRed:
    How do you go from approvingly citing a series of articles that basically argue that Dennis Rodman was more valuable than Michael Jordan to writing “I had a problem with Kevin Love last year when he was putting up awesome scoring numbers but rarely taking over games offensively in the way someone like Melo, Kobe, or Rose can.”?

    1) that’s not what Morris actually argues, his actual argument is that Rodman is an undisputable hall of famer, which I agree with.

    2) Rodman was the best rebounder of all time and an incredible defender. I think Rodman was a monster for the same reason I think Chandler is a monster: Defense is incredibly valuable, especially from your bigs, and Kevin Love is not even average at that end. Simply put, I think if you suck at defense as a big man you have to be incredible offensively to make up for it. I didn’t think Kevin Love was incredible offensively last year, and he’s been putrid this year.

    3) I argued that Kevin Love’s injury would affect him for a while, so it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him start slowly. Is he going to be injured the entire year though? He’s still doing terrible, even though at least his free throw shooting has been spot on the past few games. Furthermore, why do injuries automatically excuse anything he’s doing badly if he’s still playing most of his other game at his normal level the past few games?

    So to conclude, I think Rodman was a hall of famer because he was THE best rebounder of all time (Kevin Love isn’t even the best rebounder in the league) and because he was one of the top defensive PF’s of all time. Kevin Love is at best an average defender, and he is not a superstar offensively like many people used to claim. Now that he’s even worse offensively, it’s become kind of laughable that people put him on the same level as guys like Dirk and Tim Duncan last year

  104. DRed

    Juany8: 1) that’s not what Morris actually argues, his actual argument is that Rodman is an undisputable hall of famer, which I agree with.

    2) Rodman was the best rebounder of all time and an incredible defender. I think Rodman was a monster for the same reason I think Chandler is a monster: Defense is incredibly valuable, especially from your bigs, and Kevin Love is not even average at that end. Simply put, I think if you suck at defense as a big man you have to be incredible offensively to make up for it. I didn’t think Kevin Love was incredible offensively last year, and he’s been putrid this year.

    3) I argued that Kevin Love’s injury would affect him for a while, so it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him start slowly. Is he going to be injured the entire year though? He’s still doing terrible, even though at least his free throw shooting has been spot on the past few games. Furthermore, why do injuries automatically excuse anything he’s doing badly if he’s still playing most of his other game at his normal level the past few games?

    So to conclude, I think Rodman was a hall of famer because he was THE best rebounder of all time (Kevin Love isn’t even the best rebounder in the league) and because he was one of the top defensive PF’s of all time. Kevin Love is at best an average defender, and he is not a superstar offensively like many people used to claim. Now that he’s even worse offensively, it’s become kind of laughable that people put him on the same level as guys like Dirk and Tim Duncan last year

    Before Love started taking lots of 3 pointers his rebounding numbers were actually really close to Rodman’s. He’s a fantastic rebounder. Not quite as good as Rodman, but a hell of a lot closer than most. He should really stop shooting 3′s.

  105. Juany8

    DRed: Before Love started taking lots of 3 pointers his rebounding numbers were actually really close to Rodman’s.He’s a fantastic rebounder.Not quite as good as Rodman, but a hell of a lot closer than most.He should really stop shooting 3?s.

    That’s an interesting point actually, but that might also have something to do with the fact that he went from playing with Darko to Pekovic. Rebounding isn’t independent of your teammates, it could just be that now that he has a better team he’s not as focused on setting double-double records. Regardless, Rodman was indisputably the best rebounder of all time, Kevin Love was the best rebounder in the league for a year. Rodman also did it while playing hall of fame defense, Love’s offense is nowhere near as valuable as Rodman’s ability to shut down practically anyone but huge centers.

    Love should still be a consistent all star, but I don’t think he’s as good as Dirk in his prime, much less guys like KG and Duncan. Needs to improve his game a good bit, he just can’t dominate any aspect of the game right now

Comments are closed.