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Wednesday, July 23, 2014

2012-13 Game Preview and Thread: Knicks v. Wizards

Kyle Weidie @Truth_About_It of the fine Wizards blog Truth About It.Net asked KB to share a few thoughts on this evening’s game between the Knicks (10-4)  and the Wizards (1-12).

Here to provide the DC Council Opening Statements for Washington’s 14th game of the season against the Knicks in New York are TAI’s Kyle Weidie (@Truth_About_It), guest Dion Black, who writes about the Knicks for the ESPN TrueHoop blog Knickerblogger.net, and TAI’s John Converse Townsend (@JohnCTownsend), who bookends the post with his game prediction.

Read the entire post here.  Go New York. Go New York. GO!

61 comments on “2012-13 Game Preview and Thread: Knicks v. Wizards

  1. jon abbey

    Friday night games will never be easy until the reign of terror of Robert Randolph is brought to an end. go Knicks!

    (thanks for starting this on time, Thomas)

  2. jon abbey

    first answer that comes to mind is Killer Mike, he’s from ATL but his best few songs are amazing. I never understood why the Occupy movement didn’t have this one blasting constantly, it anticipated that perfectly, plus you can’t go wrong with a classic-era Funkadelic sample:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_uhsZmXWJY

  3. daJudge

    wow jon, so very angry, but I liked the Samuel Adams quote. Also, like most good stuff, it made left me unsettled. But come on man, help me here. Jeez Louise, I’m 56 years old! I don’t want to Occupy Wall Street—I want to live long enough to see my pension! How about some Santana (Soul Sacrifice, perhaps), some Marvin (tapes of course), maybe, some Jimi Red House, OK, end with Tear the Roof off the Mother if you must. jon, thanks for the youtube.

  4. Thomas B. Post author

    cgreene:
    Rayray just said his favorite restaurant is City Crab on Park Ave S.That place is awful.

    But the portions are huge.

  5. d-mar

    3 highly winnable games coming up, if this is truly the “new” Knicks, we will take care of business and go 3-0. Need to pile up wins while we can.

  6. daJudge

    Thomas B., thank you for the article and link, BTW. On the music, I’m going to shut off RR and just play some Waylon on my 6 string, loud and proud. Let’s see what happens. Go Knicks.

  7. daJudge

    I’ve always liked City Crab, which is near my sister’s place on 26th. Great screens and i thought decent food.

  8. jon abbey

    daJudge:
    How about some Santana (Soul Sacrifice, perhaps), some Marvin (tapes of course), maybe, some Jimi Red House, OK, end with Tear the Roof off the Mother if you must.jon, thanks for the youtube.

    all good, but all 40 years old.

  9. cgreene

    those were little the best 2 playmaking plays maybe I have ever seen from Melo for the Brewer and JR 3′s. If he starts passing like that! That’s LBJ territory. PLEASE LORD

  10. ephus

    Knicks run the PnR with Melo on the ball and Chandler as the dive man, which leads to a wide-open 3 for JR Smith. More of this please.

  11. thenamestsam

    Who is seraphin and why did he take 10(!?!?) 1st quarter shots. Man I’m so glad to be rooting for a good team again finally.

  12. ruruland

    yellowboy90:
    Nene could have been great

    Offensively, yes he could have been great. Great length, Hakeem-like agility, excellent footwork. Soft hands and great shooting touch from 15 feet and in. Doesn’ jump well off two feet, very poor rebounder for a man his size. His lack of stepping up to the challenge of Bynum and Gasol is the difference in the Nuggets not winning a championship in 2008-09.

    All mental for him.

  13. jon abbey

    all six home games so far have been double figure wins, average margin of 16.7 (!). 17-1 now at home under Woodson in the regular season, very impressive…

    MSG said that was NY’s first 11 win November since 1972, gotta like that.

  14. PD

    the knicks game was pretty much unwatchable. all this talk about the spurs 2nd unit and shot creation and whatever. that wizards team is seriously shitty. watching that spurs 2nd unit last that got fined 250k(!) would wipe the floor with what the wizard were trying to do (whatever that might be).

    the narrative is wait until until john wall is back. i like wall. i think he could be a good point in the league if surrounded with the right players and put into the right system. but i could not see much of a difference he could have made with the offense they are running. slow. boring. disorganized.

    the knicks did well to not get too lazy the 2nd half to put them away. bring on the suns. i actually think it will be an interesting matchup for them. they should win but at least i feel the suns will make it interesting.

  15. jon abbey

    Antawn Jamison is investigating if there’s a way he can play against Kenneth Faried every night, David Lee too.

  16. PD

    so i will talk about the lakers game since i since i like talking about recent past knicks alum and like rooting for them (lin, d’antoni, whatever…)

    the lakers game was refreshing from the knicks slog fest. i’ll give d’antoni some credit for his rotations in this game. i was thinking how he should start both gasol and howard then pull one early then have and have him start the start of the 2nd. i didn’t think he would have the balls to do it. but he pulled gasol around 6min mark in the 1st. let howard dominate the 1st. then rest him for the 2nd. then put gasol back in for bulk of the 2nd and let him do gasol things. great passing. a few low post looks. almost initiating the offense for the top of the key with duhon. it was was an interesting wrinkle. it helps that meeks and jamison shot the lights out.

    look. i dont know if this MDA/lakers thing will work. or if he will get his ringzzzzz. that was a fun game to watch. not a perfect coach. it might end badly in the end but most things do. you cant deny he makes things more interesting. for fuck sake. kobe acted as the point guard tonight. so funny.

  17. PD

    jon abbey:
    Antawn Jamison is investigating if there’s a way he can play against Kenneth Faried every night, David Lee too.

    i guess i have to say after my post what i think about the nuggets.

    i like gallo. he seems to be shooting better the past few games. he seems to be developing and off the bounce game that is pretty good. i dont think he is the type of the player who should create too much. seems he should be like a ryan anderson type. not as good of a rebounder. hes only 24. i feel he could fall into this role with the right players around him. we will see.

    faried is really good. young. unique. maybe limited. developing. whatever. don’t know why you have a problem with him. he’s only a 2nd year player who was a 1st team all-rookie. his defense is an issue as times but its expected. big man defensive concepts on the nba level are tough. i assume alot tougher than moorehead state. i know you have your things with THCJ. but faried is a really good young player.

    as far the rest of their team. i like alot of their players (lawson, iggy, ect). something about the composition leave me cold. not sure what it is though. i like the uptempo style. i think when they get it together they should be good.

  18. jon abbey

    Faried is very good and probably getting better still, his energy is seemingly boundless, but he’s not nearly as good as he looks in the box score or to the casual observer. again, it’s not a coincidence that Lee and Jamison both had their best games of the year against him the last two nights. he had a -20 in 23 minutes tonight, also not a coincidence.

  19. PD

    again. if your issue is defense. big man defensive concepts in the modern nba are seriously complex. you have to give him time to get a feel for a league and he only got big minutes toward the end of last season. i dont know if he will be a dominate defensive player. but he give you some good things. going into tonight:

    trb%: 19.9 (6th in nba)
    orb%: 17.5 (2nd)
    ws/48: .187 (17th)

    and with a .579ts. so yes. he had a rough minus rating tonight. how the lakers were shooting from the permiter that could happen. i know you like the “eye test” i assume you could see that gasol/howard are not the best matchup. it happens. i dont think the advanced stats are everything. but i dont think “eye tests” and “shot creation” either. its all good. this nab season has been fun.

  20. Unreason

    Maybe doing anything well in a spotlight, even if only for an instant, is all you need. Or maybe stints in NY build business acumen more than skills. Even in a league lousy with bad contracts, at the moment this pattern calls out for explanation: a few charmed weeks by Lin earned him 8.4 mill, the 2nd highest sal on his team, and the right to display his talent for coughing up sparkling hairballs every other night; Fields now pulls down 6.2, the 3rd most on his team, after stopping just shy of open defication on the court last season and ought to be planning his transition to some profession he’s more suited to by now; D’Antoni gets 4 per and is chosen over Phil Jackson to coach one of the most talent heavy teams in the history of a storied franchise by achieving a 42% win percentage over 4 yrs; TD is paid 2+ a year to wear a uniform after nailing a sign reading “I should not be wearing a uniform” to the forehead of every Knicks fan he could lay hands on. Some of that may turn out to look less ridiculous than it does right now, but in the mean time evidence for the wisdom of the NY FO is accumulating.

  21. jon abbey

    it’s not a question of ‘eye test’ as much as it’s a question of when your man is scoring 30+ very efficiently, you’re almost certainly hurting your team overall, no matter what your offensive numbers are.

    maybe he will figure things out on that end, his motor is pretty remarkable, but it’s hilarious/ridiculous to hear him compared to Rodman (right now, not down the road), someone who came into the league as a defensive stopper for a title contender (DET) and who was always an incredible defender.

  22. ruruland

    Kenneth Faried was one of the worst defenders in the league last year according to Synergy, though he was solid in some areas (atrocious in isolation). He’s struggling again this year according to Synergy, which is pretty clear when you watch him play. You can only make up for so much with rebounds and transition shot blocks. He doesn’t protect the rim, he’s way too small size. And while he’s got incredible spring, he doesn’t seem to have great lateral movement.

    The Nuggets have been 2.5 points worse with Faried on the floor since he came into the league, and 4.2 points better on defense with him on the bench.

    That’s damning.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/farieke01/on-off/

  23. jon abbey

    Unreason:
    evidence for the wisdom of the NY FO is accumulating.

    or CAA, I would love to know someday how much of this is Grunwald and how much is CAA. either way, I’m not complaining…

  24. jon abbey

    ruruland:
    Kenneth Faried was one of the worst defenders in the league last year according to Synergy, though he was solid in some areas (atrocious in isolation). He’s struggling again this year according to Synergy, which is pretty clear when you watch him play. You can only make up for so much with rebounds and transition shot blocks. He doesn’t protect the rim, he’s way too small size. And while he’s got incredible spring, he doesn’t seem to have great lateral movement.

    The Nuggets have been 2.5 points worse with Faried on the floor since he came into the league, and 4.2 points better on defense with him on the bench.

    That’s damning.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/farieke01/on-off/

    thank you. I’m not saying he can’t get better, I am saying that I’m sick of hearing how good he is right now.

    and FWIW, for those who seem to like to peg me to one way of thinking, this is actually a case where the “eye test” fails, since he is so impressively athletic to watch.

  25. ruruland

    FWIW, the Rockets are 4.5 points worse with Lin on the floor, and 2.3 points bettwr with Douglas. Lin’s defensive numbers look much better in terms of steals, and I can see a lot to like physically at times. I also see why a coach would prefer Douglas’ defense.

  26. ruruland

    jon abbey: thank you. I’m not saying he can’t get better, I am saying that I’m sick of hearing how good he is right now.

    and FWIW, for those who seem to like to peg me to one way of thinking, this is actually a case where the “eye test” fails, since he is so impressively athletic to watch.

    Yeah, he’s a freak of nature in a lot of ways. Guys who get possessions always stand out, but guys who play sound positional defense, can help and don’t get beat often individually may not look as good, but in many cases are.

    It’s just very hard to for people to separate great hustle with sound defense.

    It might take awhile for analytics to get to the point where it can determine what is good individual defense in a team concept.
    I’m pretty sure the possession stats are not even a good starting point.

  27. ruruland

    And I like Faried and love watching the Nuggets play. They have a ton of great athletes, with little shooting and no identity, voice or leadership.

    This is a tough team for Karl to coach given his health, and I think his relatively low expectations the last two years have hurt. He can’t coach this team like he coached those younger Sonics teams, and I think the Nuggets need that kind of tough love.

    I’m a big Karl fan, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t hanging with Breen and JVG next winter (which could be amazing)

    Iggy was the wrong centerpiece. I’m not sure what the Nuggets can evendo right now to change their trajectory. They just have to get really lucky in the next couple of years.

  28. ruruland

    PD:
    again. if your issue is defense. big man defensive concepts in the modern nba are seriously complex. you have to give him time to get a feel for a league and he only got big minutes toward the end of last season. i dont know if he will be a dominate defensive player. but he give you some good things. going into tonight:

    trb%: 19.9 (6th in nba)
    orb%: 17.5 (2nd)
    ws/48: .187 (17th)

    and with a .579ts. so yes. he had a rough minus rating tonight. how the lakers were shooting from the permiter that could happen. i know you like the “eye test” i assume you could see that gasol/howard are not the best matchup. it happens. i dont think the advanced stats are everything. but i dont think “eye tests” and “shot creation” either. its all good. this nab season has been fun.

    No one ever argues that shot creation is everything.

    there is really only person on this board who “argues” that one thing is everything.

  29. Juany8

    I picked the Nuggets to win around 50 games this year, but I’m starting to think that might have been an overestimation.

    I knew Iguodala for Afflalo and Harrington was a sideways, cost-cutting move, but I hadn’t quite realized how terrible McGee was at team basketball and that Lawson only works as a primary creator if you have incredible spacing on your team, the dude is not a good passer and doesn’t seem to have any idea of what to do if he’s stopped at the rim by one of the 4 defenders sagging off the crappy shooters the Nuggets have all over the floor. It doesn’t help that Iguodala and Lawson’s 3 point shooting percentages last year are misleading as fuck, when the team defensive strategy is to just give you those open 3′s, you need to make a lot more of them. They’re the first people left open! They shoot slow as hell too so it makes it easy to get back to them and simply prevent them from taking a shot.

    Keep in mind that Afflalo had a better offensive efficiency than Iguodala last year and that Harrington was a great floor spacer for a PF. The problem with using a comprehensive, all-in-one stat to make your evaluations is that while Iguodala is a better overall player than Afflalo and Harrington, as a scorer he’s actually worse for a team offense. Anyone who has a problem with Melo taking too many mid-range shots needs to call out that it’s all Iguodala is capable of taking as a primary option. Melo also doesn’t get left wide open for 3′s the way teams leave Iguodala, and the dude can’t get to the rim or draw double teams at anything remotely approximating star levels, he’s closer to *gasp* Al Harrington levels. The Nuggets needed interior defense and continued spacing to get better, they got neither with the Iguodala trade and so now have to hope that Faried and McGee, two of the least bright defenders in the league, can carry their team on both ends of the floor.

  30. Juany8

    I’m also sick of people degrading observation as a valid form of coming to conclusions. Guess what, I don’t just randomly look around at where the ball is and react all emotionally whenever Kobe makes a fadeaway 3. I’m comfortable saying Asik is a monster defender or that Faried is a horrendous one because I’ve spent entire games simply watching THEM on defense. I actually study what I’m seeing, I watch for how Asik reacts to penetration, how quick he is at providing help and then getting back to his man, how he always seems to be thinking and anticipating what’s happening in the offensive possession. I don’t sit there watching the ball then get excited when Asik gets a block.

    As for Faried, I see an excitable player who never seems to bother thinking when he’s on the court. He’s constantly ball watching, constantly being tricked and dribbled around by any PF with some semblance of skill as opposed to brute speed and power, and he has no idea how to play team defense, he kind of just runs to where the ball is haphazardly, which is incredibly easy to take advantage of for an intelligent team.

    And guess who has similar problems? Serge Ibaka, by far the league’s most overrated defender. The guy chases blocks like Jordan Crawford chases shots, he doesn’t play smart defense he’s just trying to accumulate high totals in a stat. He jumps at every pump fake, is a very poor defensive rebounder, and he doesn’t have great defensive principles yet. The block totals mask the fact that he should be trying to get LESS blocks a game in favor of sound defense and boxing out, neither of which is possible when you’re trying to jump around chasing every shot. Now at least Ibaka can alter shots at the rim and is a bigger one on one defender so he is at least average as opposed to terrible, but I’d take Gibson, Garnett, Duncan, and even Bosh as defenders over him at the PF spot

  31. johnno

    ruruland: he’s way too small size

    I love watching Faried play and I think that he is a good — but far from great — player overall. There is one thing that he can never improve — his height. According to draftexpress.com, he’s 6’6″ in socks, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that he measured 6’5-1/4″ in socks at the combine. With the obvious exception of Sir Charles, I can’t think of any star PFs who were that short.

    On another note, does anyone else think that Novak played his best defensive game of the year last night? He seemed a whole lot more active than usual and I loved his hard foul when someone (I forget who) drove down the lane.

  32. PD

    Unreason:
    Maybe doing anything well in a spotlight, even if only for an instant, is all you need. Or maybe stints in NY build business acumen more than skills……….

    whoa. guys. take it easy. i have been a knicks fan for a long time. i have lives in ny my whole life.i understand how the NY media works. it hypes a lot of things up. i get it.

    i was a huge fan of the nash/dantoni suns in the mid 00′s. it was a fun type of ball to watch. with alot a interesting advanced stats to back it up. i like when i can watch a cool type of basketball. it can inspire me to learn more about the game and lead me to cool ideas and theories just as this place.

    the linsanity stretch was special. i still root for him. he is figuring it out. he wont make the hall of fame. i figured that out myself.

    my posts were a commentary on not taking advanced stats too seriously or the “eye tests” things as well. or any other buzz word you want to throw around. it all has value. there was no subtle “jab” at melo ruru. dont worry. i was saying faried is a good player because abbey had a critique of him. i didnt say he was some kind of transcendent player. i think he is good. there are plenty of stats to back it up.

    dont take yourselves too seriously guys.

  33. ruruland

    Great posts Johnno and Juany

    Love Juanys analysis of both Denver offense and defense. We talked a lot last year about the value of Harringtons low efficiency high usage play in the half court. Harrington had the highest +/- of any full time rotation player last year. He, Miller and Afflalo were far and away the best half court players on the team.

    Now you’re seeing guys placed into higher usage half court roles where they are being fully exposed. Good offenses don’t run through Ty Lawson, Gallo or Iggy.

  34. max fisher-cohen

    Chuck Hayes was 6′ 5.5″ without shoes and is an amazing defender. Hayes is huge though strength-wise, especially in his base. It’s amazing how difficult he is to move.

  35. david

    Denver is awful to watch, imo — a lot of fun players, but they fit together terribly and can’t space the floor at all. Particularly whne Miller’s not on the court, they seem to run with no purpose, like a glorified pick up game. Faried is an undersized 4 who brings a lot of things to the table, but is effectively a very dramatic role player. Gallo, who is improving (or, i think, getting healthy) would also be best as an undersized 4, a poor italian man’s carmelo type, able to stretch the defense and drive by bigger guys. Both guys need a big center to make up for their defensive frailty, but McGee and Koufus ain’t it. And the offense needs a go to player, badly.

    A Gasol to Denver trade for Gallo, Andre Miller and a backup big (Mozgov?) would be really interesting for both teams.

  36. Brian Cronin

    the narrative is wait until until john wall is back. i like wall. i think he could be a good point in the league if surrounded with the right players and put into the right system. but i could not see much of a difference he could have made with the offense they are running. slow. boring. disorganized.

    Yeah, I remember seeing some optimism for the Wizards here during the offseason and I just don’t get it. Beal will eventually be a good player, but man, that is one shitty team. Wall will help, no doubt, but wow…and they don’t even have a lot of cap room!

  37. Brian Cronin

    I’d love to talk to Anthony Randolph’s agent about why he chose Denver for Randolph. Randolph would be better off making the minimum for a different team than taking the money he got from Denver when there was absolutely no chance that he was going to ever be someone Karl would like.

  38. Juany8

    I really don’t see why the Denver front office gets so much praise, they are well on their way to having the worst result possible after losing their superstar. Deron Williams brought in a couple of high draft pick big men, Lebron and Bosh didn’t bring anything but their teams were awful after they left and now they have some good young players to build around (especially Cleveland with Irving, although Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters don’t look like anything special) Chris Paul brought back Eric Gordon, Aminu (who’s a solid 8th man) and the Hornets got the number 1 pick after sucking a year.

    The Nuggets got Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, and essentially Andre Miller and a late draft pick for Melo. In the 2 playoffs without him, the Nuggets have lost in the first round to teams that could barely be considered contenders, and it looks like they’ll be repeating that this year. All they do is bring in solid young players on rookie contracts and then overpay them to stay, only to trade them for a new solid player who isn’t going to take them anywhere. If all they care about is making the playoffs and having an entertaining, easy to manage team out on the floor every night, they’re doing a spectacular job. Of course I don’t know that Hawks fans feel all that great about the Joe Johnson era, and I certainly don’t feel it’s all that commendable for a gm to keep recycling a team that has a very firm second round ceiling, especially since they’re not even going to get out of the first round.

    The kicker is that Daryl Morey was being called a dumb gm just a few months ago for using the EXACT same strategy, only the Nuggets got to trade off Melo while Morey had Yao Ming simply break down (and Yao was a lot better than Melo when healthy) Go back two years ago and tell me it would have been fun to root for Gallo and Amar’e to lose in the first round the next 4 years. Doesn’t this season make up for last season’s suffering?

  39. johnno

    david: Gallo, who is improving (or, i think, getting healthy) would also be best as an undersized 4, a poor italian man’s carmelo type, able to stretch the defense and drive by bigger guys.

    Has anyone checked his stats? Except for his rookie (half) year, he’s been a mediocre to below average three point shooter. If, by “able to stretch the defense,” you mean “willing to throw up a lot of long shots,” you’re right. If, by “able to stretch the defense, ” you mean that he’s a good outside shooter, you’re dead wrong.

  40. Juany8

    johnno: You’re serious?

    Was this up for debate? Yao was the best center of the league for a time. If you don’t believe me, here are his box scores against Dwight Howard throughout their careers:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

    I know that’s not a huge sample, but he indisputably outplayed Dwight Howard in all but 1 games they played in their careers, even the year Dwight went to the Finals with Orlando. Yao Ming was an absurd player when he was healthy, obviously because of the health issues you take Melo overall, but that wasn’t what I was arguing. It’s been a while since he played, but it doesn’t change that Yao was an amazing player at a rare position in the NBA. I’d argue the better debate is Tmac vs. Melo, and I realize I’m probably going to get killed for suggesting Tmac was as good as Melo, but that’s what happens when you get a bad reputation and you haven’t played in a while. Same thing will happen to Melo if the whole team keeps falling apart with injuries in the playoffs like the last 2 years

  41. johnno

    Juany8: Was this up for debate?

    If you ask 100 NBA fans who was a better player, a healthy Yao or a healthy Melo, you might be the only one who picks Yao. So, I guess you’re right, it’s not much of a debate.

  42. johnno

    Yao was by far the biggest guy in the league, yet he managed to average double digit rebounds exactly twice in 8 years and NEVER averaged 11 rpg. He also never blocked more than 2 blocks a game. I realize that you are a Rockets fan, but get serious — He was a very good player, but to call him the best center or one of the best players in the league is absurd. He was a slightly better Rik Smits.

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