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Friday, September 19, 2014

2011 Report Card: Amar’e Stoudemire

He was supposed to come here. He was supposed to be our guy. The money, the media, the Manhattan expectations as daunting as they are potentially deifying – they were all his for the taking. He would have been revered. He could’ve been a legend.

When it became clear early last July that LeBron James would not be taking his talents to Midtown, chances are many of us found ourselves parroting these and other wallowing cantos. After nine years of bad contracts, and two more of outright roster sabotage, Knick fans could be forgiven for hoping — or even expecting –  Godot to hop game-ready off the Penn Station train, wearing #6.

On July 5th, four days before “The Decision” would confirm with cringe-worthy force what many already knew, the Knicks made their biggest signing since Allan Houston when they inked Amar’e Stoudemire to a 5-year, $100 million deal.

Sure, there were some concerns. Would Stoudemire’s knees – which Phoenix refused to insure – hold up? How would the sometimes rocky relationship between Stat and his once-and-future coach shake out? Would not having Steve Nash’s wizardic presence hinder his effectiveness? Would the big city expectations be too much for a guy used to year-round sunshine and a relatively laid-back fanbase?

On the court, whatever questions people had about his ability to adjust to new surroundings were quickly put to rest. Stoudemire finished as the league’s sixth leading scorer at 25.3 ppg – the most since his second year in the league. During one particularly incredible stretch, he scored 30 or more points in nine consecutive games, breaking the previous Knicks record of eight set by Willie Naulls in 1962.

In the months before Carmelo Anthony’s arrival, Stoudemire was the undisputed go-to-guy. Coupling his well-known explosiveness with an increasingly reliable mid-range game, Stat seemed to spare himself some of the wear and tear many feared inevitable in an offense where he he was often expected to be options one, two, and three. He also quickly became the team’s vocal, emotional and spiritual leader — a mantle that will rest on the 6’10″ center’s shoulders for the foreseeable future.

Still, despite making his sixth All-Star Game and earning 2nd Team All-NBA honors for the second time in his career, Stoudemire did see both his rebounds (8.2 per game) and TS% (56% — his lowest since the 2003-04 season) take a bit of a hit. He turned the ball over at the highest rate (3.2 per game) since his sophomore campaign, and didn’t do much to detract from his reputation as defensively suspect.

After storming out of the gate and into the early season MVP discussion, Stat’s numbers tailed off down the stretch, a fact that can be attributed at least partially to the arrival of Carmelo Anthony. He recorded his last double-double on March 21st, and failed to score above 30 in his final 17 starts, all the while struggling to find a consistent groove with Chauncey Billups.

The playoffs – the Knicks’ first in seven seasons – weren’t much kinder. A back injury sustained during Game 2′s warmups rendered Stoudemire useless for much of the series, a four game sweep at the hands of the Celtics. True, few expected the Knicks to do much damage this year, particularly after such a big roster shakeup. But a sweep is a sweep, and you can bet that Stoudemire won’t forget that easily going into next season.

Off the court, Stat has been every part the leader New York could have hoped for. Almost immediately, the statuesque Stoudemire synced to the city, its media, and its hungry fans with a Sinatra-like intuition. He explored his Judaic roots, courted cameras, microphones, and supermodels in equal measure, and embraced the Garden stage like few had during the team’s lost decade.

Whether Anthony and Stoudemire can truly co-exist in Mike D’Antoni’s or any other system remains to be seen. As it does whether Chauncey Billups can be the kind of point guard Stoudemire needs in order to get back to the efficiency that marked his time in Phoenix. In light of roster unknowns as gaping as those  of the next CBA, even an affirmative answer to both these questions might not be enough to propel the Knicks into the NBA’s upper echelon. At least not yet.

Here’s what we do know: on the heels of their first winning season in a decade, and with two guys at the helm who – for all their faults – genuinely want to wear the orange and blue, the Knicks seem in capable hands going forward.

Cheers to Stat for lending his first.

Amar’e Stoudemire will never be LeBron James. And in the way that matters most to New Yorkers and Knick fans in particular, that’s a good thing. See, he wanted to come here. He wanted to be our guy. The money, the media, the Manhattan expectations – he grabbed them with aplomb. He’s been revered. And – if all goes according to plan – he very well could become a legend.

Report Card (5 point scale):

Offense: 4
Defense: 1
Teamwork: 3
Rootability: 5
Performance/Expectations: 3

Final Grade: B+

Similarity Scores

PlayerID FLName Year Age Tm PER TS_P eFG_P PTS ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV
0 Amare Stoudemire 2011 28 NYK 22.7 .565 .505 24.7 2.5 8.0 2.5 0.9 1.9 3.1
0.102 Joe Barry Carroll 1987 28 GSW 18.4 .521 .472 22.7 2.3 7.8 2.8 1.2 1.6 3.0
0.141 Antoine Carr 1990 28 TOT 16.4 .557 .494 19.8 2.4 6.7 2.5 0.6 1.4 2.6
0.146 Rik Smits 1995 28 IND 19.5 .571 .526 21.2 2.9 9.1 1.7 0.6 1.2 2.9
0.152 Bob Lanier 1977 28 DET 23.0 .573 .534 23.8 2.9 11.0 3.1 1.0 1.9
0.182 Larry Nance 1988 28 TOT 20.3 .586 .530 19.3 2.9 9.2 3.1 1.0 2.4 2.3
0.184 Armen Gilliam 1993 28 PHI 17.5 .541 .464 20.5 2.8 9.8 2.4 0.8 1.1 3.2
0.192 Patrick Ewing 1991 28 NYK 23.7 .561 .514 25.0 2.3 10.5 2.8 0.9 3.0 3.4
0.194 Clifford Robinson 1995 28 POR 18.3 .538 .506 21.2 2.0 5.6 2.6 1.0 1.1 2.1
0.211 Donyell Marshall 2002 28 UTA 19.2 .565 .529 17.7 3.3 9.1 2.1 1.0 1.4 2.6
0.214 Spencer Haywood 1978 28 NYK 15.7 .505 .484 18.8 2.9 9.0 2.6 0.8 1.5 2.9

34 comments on “2011 Report Card: Amar’e Stoudemire

  1. David Crockett

    Nice writeup Jim.

    One question on performance/expectations. I’m not sure how to interpret the 3 out of 5. Does 3 mean he underperformed expectations, or does it mean he performed exactly as expected (since the 3 is the mid-point of the scale)? I feel like it was the latter, but I’m not sure what YOU mean.

    One minor quibble. On defense, perhaps the difference between a 1 and say a 2 or 2.5 is too insignificant to even process. But, after watching STAT for a season I’m struck by how his defense suffers from a prominent–maybe even fatal–flaw. STAT’s defensive instincts are just… They’re facepalm atrocious, especially rotating vs the PnR–maybe league worst. He is not just repeatedly beaten by ball and player movement. He’s repeatedly befuddled by it–as if he has no short-term memory. So, I am in no way arguing that he’s a GOOD defender overall.

    I’m saying he’s actually not a horrible man-to-man defender, particularly vs. teams that run isos. (I’d take STAT’s defense over the-bloated-carcass-of-Carlos Boozer, who escapes a well-deserved rep as a poor defender because he’s always on solid defensive squads.) STAT’s 1.9 blocks is 3rd on this list of comparables behind Patrick (3) and Larry Nance (2.4). I’d wager that a good percentage of STAT’s blocks come on his own man. Blocks don’t necessarily tell us anything about overall D, but they do say something about willingness and capacity to use athleticism on the defensive end. In that way STAT is the anti-Jared Jeffries.

    I just think a “1″ should be reserved for pure take-it-out-the-net guys like Kaman and Andre Blatche. STAT excels at perhaps the least important component of defense (blocks), but he does excel at it.

  2. Nick C.

    Nice write up. I could have given him an extra point on defense for the blocks. Maybe a better grade for expectations since it was expected by many that he was a beneficiary of Steve Nash’s greatness. Instead, after a rough start, he and the team got rolling and made basketball not only watchable, but fun, for the first time in a decade.

  3. Frank

    Great write-up Jim! My own grades for him would be:
    (where 1 is awful/atrocious, 2 is below expectations, 3 is as expected, 4 is above expectations, and 5 is for above expectations):

    Offense: 3 – better iso scorer than I thought, better from mid-range than I thought, but too many TOs! Some of this has to do with subpar PG performance.

    Defense: 2 – D-rebounding – AWFUL. Defensive awareness? AWFUL. Man-to-man defense – mostly AWFUL. Help blocking – better than expected. All mixed together = a 2. It should be noted that he played most of the year in sheer terror of foul trouble, since the offense basically fell apart without him on the floor – 5.2 points/100 poss better with him ON the floor. Hopefully it’s not lost on him that he was a NET negative since we were 5.8 points/100poss WORSE on defense with him ON the floor.

    Teamwork: 4 – other than a tendency to dribble WAY too much and (at times) forget he had teammates, I thought a lot of his “teamwork” grade comes from off-the-court stuff and leadership. His persona was a greater asset than I expected. No embarrassing off-court stuff, always classy in interviews – great face for the franchise.

    Rootability: 5 – LOL who else are we going to root for?

    Performance/Expectations: as-expected offense, worse-than-expected defense, but better than expected intangibles = a 3.

    Final Grade: B+ – he gets a B+ rather than a B based on his willingness to put this city and team on his shoulders. HE is the foundation, not Melo or anyone else.

    For next season – even though the offense seems to run better with him at the 5, I can’t help but think all the minutes guarding the Dwight Howards, Boguts, and Andrew Bynums of the world were responsible for his physical breakdown in Mar-April. I think if he’s playing the 5 against smaller or less physically active C’s (Horford, Joel Anthony, Bargnani, etc.) that’s fine, but it’s probably better to have Rony or whoever else plays the 5 for us next year to be…

  4. TDM

    I’m glad that you recognized STAT’s qualities as a leader, but where does that trait get factored into the Report Card? Perhaps, leadership should be its own category, in which case I would give STAT a 5 (maybe a 4). He played through injuries, said all of the right things to the media, carried the team when necessary, and was able to defer to Melo when he came on board to help carry the offensive load. I can’t think of any particular example where he did not exceed expectations as a leader. That said, if leadership is a component of teamwork, then I think a 3 is too low and should be increased to 4.

    I also agree with Crockett and Nick C that giving his D a 1 could be a bit harsh.

  5. Mike Kurylo

    I gave out the grades. Jim did the write up.

    I do admit that a 1 on defense is a bit harsh. If I allowed myself a 1.5 that’s the grade I would have given him. I agree with Frank “D-rebounding – AWFUL. Defensive awareness? AWFUL. Man-to-man defense – mostly AWFUL. Help blocking – better than expected.” Except that I’m not sure the blocked shots make up for the rest. I do think Stat is particularly good at blocking a shot in a phantom sort of way (sneaking behind a defender). This is especially true in transition. However I also think he “allows” too many buckets when he gets in foul trouble. Ultimately for me that’s too many negatives to give him the benefit of the doubt with a “2″ on defense.

  6. Mike Kurylo

    David Crockett: Does 3 mean he underperformed expectations, or does it mean he performed exactly as expected (since the 3 is the mid-point of the scale)? I feel like it was the latter, but I’m not sure what YOU mean.

    As expected, but perhaps less than so. Stat emerged as the leader of this team (pre-Melo) and kept the team afloat much of the year. However his turnovers were way too high, and his efficiency took a big dive. Look at his similarity scores this year, then compare to last year (http://knickerblogger.net/similarity-scores-for-the-new-knicks/). There was a drop of in his play, and it showed.

  7. cgreene

    The turnovers seem to be a direct result of his role in the offense and the players around him. When the Knicks were playing poorly Stat would start to force the issue because it seemed as if he felt that was his responsibility most of the time. Not that that makes turning the ball over ok. Just that there were very specific reasons for his efficiency slippage and turnovers relative to his new team. Anything that happened after trade to me is a non representative sample. So I would grade as follows.

    Defense: 1 or 2 is fine. Thought he had moments where he was decent but overall he is not good. As I have said many times I think this is related to bad instincts / bad coaching (could Thibs get more out of him??) rather than bad effort.

    Offense: 4. Great mid range game and getting better.

    Teamwork: 4. I think the leadership stuff plus the often overlooked increase in his Ast% make your 3 too low.

    Rootability: 5. All the great things everyone else said.

    Performance/Expectations: 4. The guy went for it all out. Love him.

  8. Jim Cavan Post author

    I have to agree with Mike on the whole defense thing. While blocks are important, we have no stat — that I know of anyway — that shows how many of those blocks actually result in a change of possession. Sure, he averaged a couple blocks a game, and that’s great. But unless that block results in a change of possession, it’s really no different than a missed shot due to good defense. On the other hand, his awareness really is awful. And while he’s certainly quick enough to stay with his man, his defensive fundamentals are just terrible (he doesn’t get low, his hands aren’t very active, etc.)

    The only score with which I have the slightest beef is performance / expectations. I guess a 3 here means “he was who we thought he was”. But considering all the questions marks heading into the season, I thought he exceeded expectations. Not enormously, but somewhat. I actually thought his efficiency would drop more than it did without Nash. Still, I think B+ is a fair end result, even if we disagree slightly about the metrics therein.

  9. Frank

    Off topic, but I just find it amazing how much high quality x’s and o’s stuff there exists now, for free no less. I just read through NBA Playbook’s and Zach Lowe’s stuff from last night’s games and am just blown away by how much is going on that I’m totally oblivious to while watching live. The internet IS really good for some stuff!

  10. Frank O.

    I enjoyed reading this.
    Stat is terribly likable, articulate and drives himself and his team to seek excellence, rather than settling for small gains.
    I admire this quality. He never overstated good wins. He always saw them as building blocks and kept perspective on the talent level on the team. I also think he handled the big trade with class, never disparaging his old teammates. Indeed, he credit them also for the Knicks winning record, and exhibition of class not often seen in the NBA.
    You get a sense from Stat that there is steel in his spine, whereas Anthony hasn’t yet given us that sense, except for his exceptional playoff game. It is noteworthy that game was still a loss.
    If he stays healthy, Stat will do great things.
    If he get a stalwart center, expect his defense to improve. Some of these guys, particularly Stat, look bad in part because of structural flaws in the team’s make up. He has only so many fingers and the dike had a hell of a lot of cracks.

  11. Frank

    Trouble is – we know what STAT is now. He’s a guy who can be a great scorer and an adequate passer, but who doesn’t have the same greatness genes on the defensive end. The question is — who is Melo? With all apologies to THCJ who wants to bury the guy before he’s even had a training camp here, I’m not sure whether he will forever more be a chucker or whether he can bring it semi-regularly like he did in Game 2 against Boston. The greatness is obviously there somewhere– can MDA coax it out? What we saw in that Game 2 was a guy playing essentially 1-on-5 (against 3.5 HOFers no less) and almost pulling it out. He was a superlative scorer – inside/mid-range/3 point range, grabbed 17 rebounds, and probably should have had a triple-double if it was anybody but Jefferies trying to finish his passes. MDA has come out and said his vision of Melo is a guy approaching triple-doubles on a regular basis. Can he do that with a full training camp, a healthy STAT and Billups, and under the pressure that this is his legacy now?

    I hope so. Because that Game 2 was one of the great performances I’ve ever seen out of a Knick.

  12. adrenaline98

    While in the grand scheme of things, a block is just a good defensive play, as opposed to being good defensively, there’s also an emotional component attached to it. There was the LeBron block, for instance.

    It has more potential additional value, but is also equally meaningless in say a 15 point deficit game.

    Stat’s offensive inefficiencies (mostly turnovers) is a result from having a PG incapable of handing him the ball effectively. Felton, despite being a gritty player who was playing excellent, is simply no Nash. Stoudemire had a lot of possessions where himself were the last option and he had to put it on the floor to drive or take a mid-range shot. I can recall too many times where I am yelling “JUST TAKE THE SHOT” because of how defenses were collapsing and I just know he’d lose the ball. I would love to see him develop a post-up game that doesn’t involve him facing up the defender. With how quick he is, a little right handed baby hook/dump in shot from a drible or two in the center would probably make him far more efficient. I didn’t see a development all year on this front. I think it would make him far harder to guard if he didn’t have go for that layup/dunk inside every single time.

    Watching the Magic game this year, and seeing Howard’s immensely improved post-up game, I feel this is the real reason he has become so unstoppable. I tend to agree with the 4 everyone else has. As he gets older, he needs that post-up game, as he won’t be able to dive to the basket as often as he tried.

  13. adrenaline98

    @11, I get the same feelings regarding Melo.

    When I watch him play, I realize how GREAT he can be. But when I watch him play, I don’t think HE REALIZES how great he can be. It’s rather baffling.

    You watch the game thinking:

    “Now he Melo had taken the ball to the hole instead of settling for the 3, he probably would have gotten the call.”

    “Man that guy was open, when Melo figures it out, he’d hit that open man instead of getting blocked at the rim.”

    “Wow, he grabbed every rebound last game, and has only 2 after 3 quarters this game.”

    It’s like a whole new Melo when he TRIES. You can see it clearly. He SLAPS the shit outta that ball when he grabs that rebound. His feet move quicker than you’ve ever seen before locking that man down, with active hands, poking at the ball, deflecting the pass.

    Then someone drives right by him for an easy layup. Pretty frustrating.

  14. Ben R

    adrenaline98: Stat’s offensive inefficiencies (mostly turnovers) is a result from having a PG incapable of handing him the ball effectively.

    I keep hearing things like this and I think it is unfair to Felton, Billups and Douglas. None of them are Nash but neither is anyone else in the league. There are about maybe 5-6 PGs in the entire league that can really create lots of opportunities for their teammates. The rest simply run offenses. Felton is a perfectly capable PG and so is Billups, (Toney is a work in progress) and criticizing them for not being as good as a top 5/top 10 PG isn’t fair. Amare needs to be able to exist in an offense that doesn’t have an all-star at PG without commiting a bunch of boneheaded turnovers. He is great but the high turnover rate was his fault not anyone else.

  15. BigBlueAL

    Great stuff. Like mentioned above I guess I also wouldve gave him a 2 for defense and a 4 for performance/expectations but thats just nitpicking.

  16. flossy

    Amar’e is not a good defender, but on the subject of blocked shots, how epic was that game-saving rejection of Stephen Jackson back in the fall? That to me was better than the block on LeBron, because Jax was going to dunk if not blocked whereas LeBron was kind of throwing up a prayer.

    Anyway, his defense is so frustrating because he does try (when not in foul trouble) but it honestly seems like he has a small stroke whenever other teams run a PnR. For someone so adept at executing that play on offense it’s so strange that he has NO IDEA how to defend it. It’s an interesting contrast to Melo who seems to me on the whole to be a smarter/more capable but also much lazier defender. The constant, unnecessary switching on picks is just lazy. The slapping at the ball instead of moving his feet–lazy. He knows how to defend but (if you’ll excuse the armchair psychology) seems to think it’s beneath him 90% of the time. It’s hard to tell what’s worse but it’s too bad to be debating which of your ‘superstar’ players is less terrible on defense….

    On the plus side, I think offensively he did as well as anyone could have expected. Yeah his efficiency slipped but considering he hasd to increase his usage to an all-time high while adjusting to not having Nash spoon-feeding him easy buckets… His post-Nash TS% and eFG% ended up higher than his same stats pre-Nash, and that was as a 21-year old pre-knee-issues at his athletic peak.

    My only worry going forward is Amar’e may be a terrible value as a second offensive option. He needs to be pouring on the points to make up for his lack of defense, and with Melo taking most of the shots (as I think he inevitably will)… we may end up paying a max salary to someone who averages like 18 and 7 over the rest of his contract. Ouch. (This obviously does not apply if we land CP3 or Deron).

    Lastly, don’t hold your breath for him to develop a post game. He’s more likely to increase his range…

  17. tenebrous

    Since we have the undeniable melo we need amare on the other side of the court. Originally I advocated for a pnr between the two all-stars but since that is a fantasy amare and melo might have to be forced to play on opposite sides of the court. Since melo needs a 2/3 where he can play pass the ball a la pnr but I pass to u u pass to me and let’s see some air while letting it rain. CHauncy is that 1/2/3 but when he’s on the bench There is no one on the team that can HAPPILY play this way not even the FIELD of the day. Trouble it’s all trouble.

  18. SeeWhyDee77

    Excellent assessment on Stat’s 1st season as a Knick. I happen to believe that if he lasts 4 years as a Knick, he will be as beloved as LJ. He did more than I think we all expected before Melo came on board. There is no doubt in my mind that after a real training camp that those 2 will flat out dominate as long as they can stay healthy. I would like for Stat and Melo to develop more of a Kobe mentality. The one thing I love about Kobe can be summed up in his interview after the Lakers got swept. “One wasted year of my life”..kinda absolute and solitary, but we need our guns 2 have chips on their shoulders similar to that. Stat’s close to it tho. My only beef, minor as it may be, with this assessment of Stat in this post is I think he played better defense than he was given credit for. I would problee change that score to a 2. Like I said minor beef..we all know he can get better..much better at defense. I’m guessing his poor rebound attributed to his low defensive score. I’d be a fool to seriously argue with that because he was damn near Eddy-esque with his rebounding. Thank God for Melo lol. That boy go hard. He’s not a double double waiting to happen like Stat SHOULD be..but when he’s focused…man!! I just have one question about Stat- at 6’10″ 245, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A 32 INCH WAIST?? lol..I’m 5’9″ 185..and I have a 34 inch waist…geez…

  19. JK47

    I found STAT to be kind of underwhelming in his first year here. His rebounding numbers were actually in Eddy Curry territory, his scoring efficiency was way off and save for his excellent stretch early in the season, he just didn’t LOOK like a dominant player. Way too many mid-range jumpshots, not enough above-the-rim, high percentage play. He forces things too much and sometimes looks just awkward on offense. Towards the end of the season it was pretty clear his health was breaking down, and that’s another ominous sign.

    I do hope this is a result of the high turnover of the roster, and that a full training camp and more stability will bring back the .600+ TS% version of Stat that we’ll need if we’re gonna be good. I dunno, a PF who shoots lots of jumpers, has a 12.7 TRB% and plays crap defense is not someone I’m real excited about. Stat’s a great leader and is a very likable dude, but if he declines any further we’re in big, big trouble.

  20. Nick C.

    You have to wonder which version of Amare “we” get. 1.0 in the first 5-10 games receiving the ball at or above the FT line with an absurd amount of turnovers is hopefully a thing of the past brought on by the team figuring out how to best run the PnR end offense. Amare 2.0 from then until the trade was Awesome IMO. Not perfect mind you but worth every penny. Then came the creaky Amare, which may have been from the career high (or very close to it) MPG he was logging or what you expect with his knee issues or just one of those things. Most worrisome was that after the trade out went the PnR and in came the ISO SF and the pullup or bait a foul call PG. The eye test says it meant we got a 15 foot jump shooter, which is less than desireable. But a check of the numbers shows he dropped off starting in Janaury and logged 39+ MPG in December. So after all that I haven’t a clue.

  21. SeeWhyDee77

    Nick and JK, I agree..Mike D really has to get Stat’s minutes down. Stat also has to rely less on his midrange game. But with a PG like Billups in town, unfortunately, Stat may become more of a wing in a PF’s body. The good news about having Amare and Carmelo is once they figure out the pnr with those 2, we have incredible weapons. And at their positions, they can be deadly and interchangeable in the high/low post. Those 2 guys definitely don’t need to be so perimeter oriented. One thing not to be forgotten, Billups (for everything he is not) is a very smart and crafty player, and a championship PG. I think he can figure how to get Stat and Melo the ball in spots where they would be most effective. I’d still rather have Felton back tho. As far as Stat breaking down and his role on offense goes, I think Melo has earned 1st option status rather than coming in and expecting to be top dog. Stat should embrace that because it will allow him to become a better all around player now that he doesn’t hafta do all the heavy lifting on offense. Besides, I think at this stage in their careers that Melo is better equipped to be option 1. He’s a wing who can post, not much of a penetrator or above the rim player, and quite possibly the league’s most deadly midrange and overall scorer. That said, his role should save Stat some of the beating. And quite honestly, Melo’s alot healthier than Stat so he can problee handle the load better. One thing I don’t wanna leave out is Walsh HAS to get a center and a back up 4 has to emerge to help Stat rest more and play alot less at the 5. Stat’s efficiency dropped because he wasn’t used to carrying the load offensively and defensively. In Phoenix he played alot of center, but he had other all star threats on the floor with him. If Walsh can grab a center, trust this: Stat and Melo will form one of the deadliest duo’s in recent and possibly league history.

  22. Frank

    Was just looking at the late 1st round re: who we can buy a pick from – and not finding anyone. I can’t imagine the teams with the last 10 picks (except maybe Minnesota’s 20th pick) selling them. We’ve got rich owners (Nets, Blazers, Mavs) who don’t need the money, as well as a bunch of teams that traditionally don’t sell picks (Bulls, Spurs, Celts, Thunder, Houston).

  23. SeeWhyDee77

    ess-dog:
    Could this possibly be a smoke-screen?:

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213734/Knicks_Targeting_Hofstras_Jenkins

    DX has him as an early 2nd rounder.Looks like he had a pretty good senior year.Seems more like a shooter/scorer than a distributor.

    I’ve never seen the kid play..but I just looked at his draft bio. He seems, numbers wise, like a decent combo guard off the pine…but isn’t that Douglas? I’m smitten with this Jackson kid from BC..I just hope he doesn’t skyrocket up the boards b4 the draft. I think in the latter 1st round he’s a can’t miss prospect. 6’3″ 202, built like Billups but far more athletic and able to penetrate and dish. Plus the kid’s got a 7′ wingspan!! A point guard!! This kid could be a god send defensively at the point for years to come. That’s why I say Walsh should pick him if he’s still there and sign Dalembert. If you’ve got defense at the 1 and 5, it makes the game much easier.

  24. Frank

    From a stats standpoint, Jenkins’s is pretty impressive. TS% of 64% on an eFG of 59%, so his efficiency is all about him actually making shots, not just foul shots. TO-R was really bad his first 3 years but cut it down to 13% of possessions this year. And he’s been 40+ from college 3 the last 2 years, and 82+% from FT line, so his shooting #s are likely not a fluke. And even though he played in the Colonial League, he seemed to do OK in his games against better competition (Nebraska, UNC, George Mason x 2).

    Interesting article that Mr. Google found for me:

    http://www.midmajormadness.com/2011/4/15/2111016/2011-nba-draft-can-charles-jenkins-play-the-point-hofstra

    Looks like he’s not great at running the PnR as a distributor. They’re also comparing him to TD, which is not all bad, except we already have one of those.

  25. Thomas B.

    Well when the rest of the scores are posted and we see that no Knicks scored higher than a 2 (I’m guessing, I did not peak. Seriously, who was better than a 2? Maybe TDDWTDD maybe.), I think the 1 Stat got will look about right.

  26. SeeWhyDee77

    Thomas B.:
    Well when the rest of the scores are posted and we see that no Knicks scored higher than a 2 (I’m guessing, I did not peak. Seriously, who was better than a 2? Maybe TDDWTDD maybe.), I think the 1 Stat got will look about right.

    lol..well when u look at the knicks total defense..lmao..no knick better than a 2..so true. I just think Stat performed better on D than I expected him to. Prior to coming to NY I thought he was pretty much a doormat on defense. He did a little more this season than lay down..but not much. Is a 1.5 fair?

  27. SeeWhyDee77

    Re: Jenkins…I must admit he looks good. But we already have Douglas as Frank said..and drafting Jenkins would problee allow Walsh to make potential trade packages look better by including Douglas. But, we need as much defense as we can add without sacrificing too much offensive potency. That’s why I say Jackson should be the pick if he’s there. In no way should Walsh draft a big at #17 unless he’s taller than 6’9″ and weighs more than 240. Why are so many people opposed to inking Dalembert? It’s not really gonna be that much of a market for defensive bigs. If the Clips retain Jordan, which they should do, Kaman is problee expendable. But he’s too expensive for NY..and not really considered a defensive big. Marc Gasol will problee stay in Memphis anyway, and he’s more offense than defense and will cost too much. Oden would be nice if he can get healthy and Portland doesn’t tender him. After that..who else is out there? Yao? Please. Camby? Most likely not available. Pryzbilla? Ehh..not sold on him. Varejao? Waaayyyy to expensive. Haywood? Ditto. Chandler? Would love it..but not a snowball’s chance in hell we could get him after what he’s meant to Dallas this season. I’m tellin you..Dalembert and Jackson would improve us enough defensively to be a real factor. I also think Sefalosha could be had via trade. A Walker/Balkman offer might be enough to make OKC bite. Beyond that, I’m pretty sure Walsh could find a cheap shooter to replace Walker..and one would hope that Derrick Brown proves to be a steal for us as well. Maybe Speights would be available as a back up big. Adding Dalembert would allow us to move Turiaf and his “offensaphobia”. I’m just sayin..

  28. Z-man

    I have always taken issue with the similarity scores, and the above comparisons emphasize why. One issue I have is the limiting nature of the exact age match. Another is the equalizing of the components to shake out a “balanced” comparison metric. The spread in PER (a flawed, but functional measure of overall player value) is enormous, with Haywood being a pedestrian 15.7 to Ewing being an elite player at 23.7 (8th in the league that year); TS% also has a tremendous spread, from the highly inefficient .505 to the vrey efficient (though an off year for him) Nance at .586. The deviations of the Z-scores, if I recall correctly, indicate that there is not that much similarity between any of the players on the list to Amar’e, and Joe Barry Carrol and Bob Lanier were such different kinds of players that it is hard to fine any useful way to interpret the chart.

    Funny, though, while I was messing around with B-R’s player season finder, I stumbled on the following comparison:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=26&age_max=30&height_min=80&height_max=84&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=blk_per_g_req&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=.550&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=.580&c3stat=usg_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=28&c4stat=trb_pct&c4comp=lt&c4val=16&c5stat=def_rtg&c5comp=gt&c6mult=0.98&c6stat=off_rtg&order_by=ws

    Seems like, based on these search criteria, these two were separated at birth!

  29. woolygator3

    I’ve read somewhere that golden state aren’t really looking for a project through drafting a young player, instead preferring more of a veteran presence. Any ideas what it might take to acquire/trade up to their pick at #11? or even if we would even get any benefit from it?

  30. SeeWhyDee77

    woolygator3:
    I’ve read somewhere that golden state aren’t really looking for a project through drafting a young player, instead preferring more of a veteran presence. Any ideas what it might take to acquire/trade up to their pick at #11? or even if we would even get any benefit from it?

    It would problee take Fields and our 17 or a combo of Extra E(sign and Trade), Walker and our 17. At 11 is there really 1 player available worth losin that much? We’ve already gutted our depth in gettin Melo. I must admit, I would absolutely LOVE to see Fredette in a Knick uni..but not at that cost.

  31. SeeWhyDee77

    yea man..I’m kinda jealous..imagine if they r able to add Irving and Williams or Irving and a veteran for the #5..like if they could get a team like the griz to bite on sendin Gay to them for a package involving the #5..or Kevin Love..or Lamarcus Aldridge..Cleveland could get good again QUICK

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