Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, August 2, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Warriors

For your in-post game thoughts.

250 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Warriors

  1. d-mar

    The Knicks could really turn their season around with 2 more road wins and then a home and home split against the Bobcats. 7-9 sounds a whole lot better than 3-8. I hope the Knicks are in the mood for a little payback tonight after GS made them look bad at MSG.

  2. David Crockett

    Gallo is cutting tonight. Thank heaven. That pass on the break was awful, but love his movement so far.

  3. BigBlueAL

    Gallo’s off the ball movement on offense has been great lately. Nice to see him no longer just hang around the 3pt line waiting.

  4. David Crockett

    We are getting a lot of “I still don’t know you yet turnovers.” I expect some of those to go away, like the pass Turiaf just threw off STAT. STAT’ll learn to look for the pass — Ronny’s not shooting from there.

  5. Nick C.

    People who have trouble telling Fields and Gallo apart must be confused. Gallo has a caught a couple of passes under the basket and Fields with a 3.

  6. David Crockett

    It’s pretty clear that the Knicks are making a concerted effort for everyone to challenge shots. Could we do that for rebounding?

  7. David Crockett

    Chicago & Dallas are tied at 39… in the 3rd quarter. Geez fellas. The ball goes into that cylinder with the net draping down from it.

  8. Doug Chu

    ess-dog: That “trick” pass by Douglas was just sad.I bet we have TJ Ford backing up Felton by February.  

    yeah that hit Amare (?) in the knees.

  9. David Crockett

    Before Turiaf turned it over I was about to type that the Knicks could beat some of the packed lanes we see by going up over the top. You don’t have to just shoot 3s.

  10. David Crockett

    At the risk of tossing out a sportswriter-worthy cliche, I wonder if a road trip weren’t just what the doctor ordered for this team.

  11. Robert Silverman

    That Ellis…geez. Looks like Wade out there.

    Hindsight Special: The Warriors (according to rumors) first offered Ellis for Lee straight up. Considering his contract (which would mean it’d be impossible to sign Melo as a FA this offseason), who’d prefer that to Turiaf/AR/Kelenna?

  12. ess-dog

    Ted Nelson: ess-dog,
    What’s with the vendetta against Douglas?  

    Are you kidding? I’ve always loved TD. But he’s been playing terrible of late. I hope it’s just a little slump. Re: the bad pass, I just think it’s clear he’s not a point guard. Even his D has looked sloppy lately.

  13. steveoh

    I live out here in San Francisco, and watch the Warriors pretty religiously. And tonight’s Monta performance has been the norm. I don’t think he’s missed an open shot this season, and taken nothing but good shots. He’s been unreal, so give TD and Landry some slack.

  14. Doug Chu

    BigBlueAL: WTF, I just saw that OKC beat Boston.Durant didnt play right??  

    Both Durant and Green didn’t play. OKC won when Delonte West missed a game-tying 3 at the end.

  15. d-mar

    Hey Mike Crispino – play-by-play 101: when a Knick goes up, gets fouled and the ball goes in, raise voice just a little. He is just horrendous! (but as long as the Knicks win, I don’t care who announces)

  16. ess-dog

    Felton with the backdoor pass to Fields! I always knew the Felton signing was a great one, good job Donnie.

    :)

  17. Brian Cronin

    We know Felton and Amar’e have trouble when you double them, so the Warriors give them single coverage. So dumb. But thank you, Keith Smart!!!

  18. Brian Cronin

    They’re freezing Gallo out again. So long as the crazy shots go in, it’s okay, but geez, Felton.

  19. cgreene

    Felton has played a great half BUT GS is now stuffing the pnr to amare. Felton never sees Gallo on the wing. They need to work Gallo into their 2 man game.

  20. Owen

    That backdoor was sweet. I don’t understand why they take Biedrins off the court. Things always seem to go south when he isn’t around.

    Also, Felton and Ellis are on a sick tear. Some silly shots falling…

  21. Brian Cronin

    Felton never sees Gallo on the wing. They need to work Gallo into their 2 man game.

    It really looks like Gallo is invisible to Felton. It’s so odd.

  22. Ted Nelson

    The great thing about this roster is that they can play at the pace of the Warriors but have good size. Without Lee the Warriors have been forced to use a line-up at times where the average height is like 6-3… Knicks are physical and fast.

  23. steveoh

    Everything the Knicks are throwing up is going in.

    Amazing how things work out when you don’t settle for a jumper.

  24. Ted Nelson

    Brian Cronin: Maybe Gallo has been sexting Felton’s significant other?  

    Seriously… He had him wide open at one point and luckily made that ridiculous shot. Then he tried to throw it out of bounds instead of to Gallo… Looked like Ellis–>Curry or another episode of Everyone Hates Gallo…

  25. rama

    Fields!!

    There, got my chance. Of course, I could post it for his rebounds, but that seems a little over the top.

    There’s almost nothing to complain about this game – the only reason the Warriors are in it is because of Ellis. Otherwise, a total blowout. Getting to the line, distributing the ball, outrebounding them, limiting turnovers, making our threes…wow.

    So, how’s this: come on, Gallo, would it kill you to grab a rebound once in a while?

  26. d-mar

    The Knicks have to change their usual MO and handle prosperity, as opposed to playing stupid in the 3rd quarter and letting GS and their crowd back into it. I would really like to see them up the lead somehow, and just keep GS at bay. But I have a feeling we may be biting our nails right down to the cuticle late in the 4th.

  27. BigBlueAL

    steveoh: That was a helluva first half, which is why I’m scared to death that we’re up by only thirteen.  

    Thanks to Ellis and his 24 pts on 11 for 16 shooting.

  28. rama

    But I have a feeling we may be biting our nails right down to the cuticle late in the 4th. d-mar

    Speak for yourself – I’m going to bed and will savor a first-half victory. Why ruin it?

  29. Robert Silverman

    rama: I’m going to bed and will savor a first-half victory.Why ruin it?  

    Sleep tight! Don’t The Monta Ellis bugs bite!

  30. cgreene

    It warms my heart when Clyde likes how the Knicks are playing. It’s like when you make your Dad proud… Also because you know how he is holding his nose most of the time while calling the games. Never heard the “Frazier to Reed” call before!!

  31. steveoh

    I love how the Knicks are running the offense through Turiaf (of all people). He’s a helluva passer, and I like actually having Amare off the ball as the recipient of that pass instead of the instigator of the offense. Plus, taking Amare and his defenders out from the high post opens up the lane for the pick and roll.

    At least, that’s what I think I see.

  32. BigBlueAL

    d-mar: How big would this lead be if Monta wasn’t unconscious?  

    It would be garbage time right now which would be nice considering Knicks play tomorrow night.

  33. nicos

    Poor quarter for Chandler- a little to shot happy and a poor switch to leave Amar’e on Ellis at the end of the quarter. Knicks did a better job against the zone but I’d like to see Gallo out there to give them another guy to shoot over the top.

  34. SeeWhyDee77

    Now what i’m about to say..i’m not sayin it becuz i’m smitten with Stat. But..his defensive, leadership, and ‘team player ability’ deficiencies have been well chronicled by all of us. And watchin him play so far this season, I have seen more passing, leadership and defense than I have EVER seen outta Stat. All this while bein the alpha dog. Great piece to build around, no? Sure he doesn’t rebound like we want him to..but now I am convinced that he’s worth that contract. Every penny. As long as he stays healthy of course. Offensively-NO ONE can guard him. Maybe his post play isn’t up to par, but I think it’s becuz he doesn’t have enuf space to work with mainly becuz of the team’s lack of consistency from the outside. But he really is the real deal. I was a little skeptical at 1st becuz he always had Nash. And yes, his efficiency could use a bump upwards, but I shudder to think that most ppl wanted Bosh. Bosh’s job isn’t half as hard as Stat’s..but (tonite’s game aside-Bosh looked great) 16 and 6? He should be gettin 15 and 12 easy down there in Miami. With 2+ blocks a game to boot. I’m just tryin 2 say Stat’s better than I expected him to be considering the roster situation. Thas it..

  35. Brian Cronin

    I like how Gallo scores eight straight and looks like he’s hot so they naturally go back to ignoring him.

  36. BigBlueAL

    Gotta say, those 3′s by Gallo earlier were huge. Of course the Warriors answered both of them with 3′s of their own.

  37. David Crockett

    Raymond Felton looks like a pocket-sized Anthony Mason when he handles the ball. He’s so bow-legged he gets his feet too close together sometimes.

    If he weren’t driving me nuts it would be funny.

  38. Robert Silverman

    Best part of this game for me? Stoudemire really didn’t force anything. Only 12 shots and 27 points, 11 boards and 2 blocks. GREAT game.

    (If I were snarkier, I’d say it was very David Lee-esque)

  39. BigBlueAL

    Robert Silverman: Best part of this game for me? Stoudemire really didn’t force anything. Only 12 shots and 27 points, 11 boards and 2 blocks. GREAT game.
    (If I were snarkier, I’d say it was very David Lee-esque)  

    It cant be a David Lee-esque game since Amar’e had 2 blocks. :-)

  40. Droidz1979

    I would say Gallo’s clutch 3′s were also big.. hosed the warriors rally at the right time. Guess the Knicks has there own version of big 3 in Stat, Felton and Gallo…

  41. Robert Silverman

    Speaking of impressive stats…Darko Milicic tonight: 23 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 blocks.

    Yowza. Against the Lakers, to boot. They still lost by 17, but that’s nothing to sneeze at.

  42. Z-man

    Good win, we clearly burned Monta and Stephen out. Gallo saved his best for last. Monster game by Felton, good for him, say what you want, he bust his ass out there. TD was’nt very good, kinda an off game for Fields, WC taketh andgiveth away. Amar’e had a quiet superstar kind of game. Turiaf was a huge factor. Very entertaining game.

  43. BigBlueAL

    I will start believing in this team again if they win their next 2 games to get to 7-8 (at the Clippers and then home vs the Bobcats). lol

  44. Droidz1979

    Field still had 8 rebounds, 2nd best to Amare’s 11… At least this Knick team is starting to gel and not panic at the end. Would say Felton also bailed us out at the end game. Plus, Amare did not force the issue tonight.

  45. Z-man

    Great to see Gallo step up, he’s looking great in the last 4 game, I really think he is the key to our season. BTW, I thought Amar’e passed the ball very well.

  46. GHenman

    Good win, but if D’Antoni keeps the rotation this short they’ll be dead by January. Especially Turiaf!

  47. d-mar

    I have no idea how Amare makes those off of one leg running bank shots, I’ve never seen another player do that.

    Enough with the west coast games!!

  48. greatscott

    Robert Silverman: Best part of this game for me? Stoudemire really didn’t force anything. Only 12 shots and 27 points, 11 boards and 2 blocks. GREAT game.
    (If I were snarkier, I’d say it was very David Lee-esque)  

    It was not a David Lee-esque game with Amare’s 5 turnovers. Knicks got lucky with Lee not being able to play.

  49. cgreene

    If Felton is starting to understand how to play fast but under control that would be a very nice thing.

  50. nicos

    Man, that back and forth 4th was pretty nerve-wracking but fun to watch. Nice that they kept looking for Gallo late even after he missed three straight. Also while I wouldn’t have minded them switching back to Fields late as Chandler had a pretty poor second half, both Curry and Ellis gave Fields fits on D. Of course they give pretty much everyone fits. And yeah, Felton player of the game with big assists from Amar’e & Gallo. Hope they have some legs left tomorrow- 4 games in 5 nights on the west coast is pretty tough.

  51. BigBlueAL

    I dont think bringing up David Lee is a smart thing to do right now for all you Amar’e haters since his numbers especially after tonight’s efficient masterpiece is now much better than Lee’s stats this season which are pretty bad rebounding numbers aside.

  52. Z-man

    Considering that the Warriors were over 50% from the field and over 70% from 3, it was a good, resilient win. I couldn’t possibly criticize Amar’e tonight, he had a monster game, 10-12 from the field, 11 boards, 4 assists, good clutch play.

  53. nicos

    Amar’e's TS% now .559 and rising with the P & R at least showing some signs of being effective. Tonight, not only did Amar’e roll but Felton started turning the corner and attacking the basket rather than just continuing parallel to the basket and resetting- I think getting them both moving in the same direction more consistently will really help things.

  54. Thomas B.

    Robert Silverman: Best part of this game for me? Stoudemire really didn’t force anything. Only 12 shots and 27 points, 11 boards and 2 blocks. GREAT game.
    (If I were snarkier, I’d say it was very David Lee-esque)  

    How can any line with 2 blocks be DavidLessesque? Player of the game: Wilson Chandler for infecting Lee and keeping him on the bench.

  55. Brian Cronin

    Player of the game: Wilson Chandler for infecting Lee and keeping him on the bench.

    Yeah, I know they were low on size with Lee out, but lordy, is he the only dude who can get a rebound for them? Worked out for the Knicks, though!

  56. steveoh

    Can’t expect this shooting to continue, but it would be nice.

    However, I hope this new look offense does. There just seems to be so much more room to operate and so much more ball movement. Felton looks so much better driving into the lane without defenders already there. And Turiaf has nice vision for a big man. It got Gallo the ball without waiting for Amare. And STAT was efficient because he didn’t have to instigate the offense. He filled the same role he played with the Suns, but with a completely different way of getting it to him.

    Of course, that was against the Warriors.

  57. Brian Cronin

    It’s like we’ve been saying for awhile, Amar’e is a great player, but he should not be the focus of the offense. Look at how much better he plays when he is not the feature of the offense! Also, it is a lot easier to avoid doubles this way. I’ll take Amar’e in single coverage against pretty much any defender in the NBA.

  58. greatscott

    steveoh: Of course, that was against the Warriors.  

    …without Lee.

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, I know they were low on size with Lee out, but lordy, is he the only dude who can get a rebound for them? Worked out for the Knicks, though!  

    3 of their 4 best big men were in suits.

    No David Lee, no Louis Amundson, no Brandan Wright. Hell, no Ekpe Udoh.

    Even if Brandan Wright was playing the Warriors probably would have won that game.

  59. Brian Cronin

    I think victories are so precious for the Knicks right now that I don’t feel too much like knocking the few ones they get, so while yeah, barely beating the Warriors without David Lee is, I guess, not really all that impressive, it is a win and 5-8 looks a whoooooooooole lot better than 4-9.

  60. Brian Cronin

    On another point, regarding Gallo’s clutch threes. I think this has come up before, but really, if you just did the stuff you did in the clutch earlier in the game there would not have been a need for “clutch” shots.

    The looks they got for Gallo at the end of the game could have and should have come earlier in the fourth quarter, as well, and the game likely never would have gotten to a 2-point game. Besides one shot when Gallo got the ball with 1 second left on the 24-second shot clock (which I’m not counting as a “real” look), Gallo got the ball twice from when he entered the game with 10:06 left in the fourth until 4:26 left in the game, and they were both on the same play (miss, offensive rebound, miss – why he took the second shot I have no idea, rushed 9-footers is not his game at all). When you add in the fact that he sat from 6:01 in the third until 10:06 in the fourth, the Knicks went away from him for too long (particularly coupled with sitting Amar’e at the same time to start the fourth – I think they really should make sure one of those two are on the floor as much as they can).

  61. Z

    greatscott: if Brandan Wright was playing the Warriors probably would have won that game.  

    I don’t know. The Knicks scored 125 points on 77 shots. Had 9 more rebounds, 7 more assists, 5 more blocks, 15 more free throws… They really dominated this game, and the only reason it wasn’t a blow out was because Monta Ellis wasn’t missing for most of the game.

    A lot of good teams have lost to inferior teams while on west coast road trips. Knicks have played three good games so far and have 2 wins to show for it. That is exactly what we hoped would happen. (Let’s see if they can “steal” one against the Clips tomorrow too :)

  62. nicos

    Brian- I agree in general that Gallo needs more looks late and I agree that he sat too long esp. when GS went zone BUT from the time Gallo came back in the game the Knicks missed a grand total of 5 shots the rest of the game- 3 of them by Gallo. From 10:06 to 4:26 Besides Gallo’s 0-3, you had Turiaf 0-1, Chandler 0-1, Amar’e 1-1, and Felton 2-2. So really you’re talking about 2 possessions where Gallo could have gotten a look that might have helped the Knicks- given that Amar’e didn’t miss a shot in the second half and Felton basically hit everything all game (and was 4-4 in the 4th) you could make the argument that if anyone should have gotten those shots it should have been one of them- Gallo was 3-6, plus drew a foul on a drive in the quarter- he used more possessions in the 4th than either Felton or Amar’e both of whom more efficient games. Gallo has been woefully underused in the 4th quarter pretty much every game this season EXCEPT this one. The game was close because despite the Knicks scoring almost every time down court the Warriors scored as well, hitting 6 threes in the quarter.

  63. Brian Cronin

    Well, there was also the Fields turnover. ;)

    But really, it was the 8:26 and the 7:48 shots that I was thinking at the time, “Why are you not going to Gallo?” They were both ugly shots by Amar’e and Felton that happened to go in. That’s when I was irked.

    But yes, oh, of course this game was much better than previous games, because Felton actually ended up giving the ball. Hell, Gallo got the ball from three different teammates for his three threes!! That was awesome to see.

  64. Mike Kurylo Post author

    Robert Silverman: Robert Silverman: Best part of this game for me? Stoudemire really didn’t force anything. Only 12 shots and 27 points, 11 boards and 2 blocks. GREAT game.
    (If I were snarkier, I’d say it was very David Lee-esque)

    It cant be a David Lee-esque game since Amar’e had 2 blocks. :-)

    If it were David Lee it would be 27 boards and 11 points.

  65. slovene knick

    With tooth fairy being a knick and Harrington(LAC – his favorite opp.) gone it looks pretty good after all.
    In next nine I think six should(must) be a W.

  66. TDM

    Great road win. All 5 starters had a solid game. Albeit without Lee, GS had no one to crash the boards except Biedrins who had an average 30 min – 8pts/8rbs.

    Anyone see Darko’s boxscore for the night against the Lakers? 23 pts, 16 rbs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 6 blocks. We could use a guy like that . . .

  67. Z-man

    Re: Darko, nice to see, but I don’t place much stock in stats garnered in losing blowouts. That said, Minny is seemingly on the uptick. Beasley seems to have turned the corner for now. Still wouldn’t want him, though. Hey, why couldn’t Love have that kind of game vs. us, zero points and 7 boards?

  68. Thomas B.

    Mike Kurylo:
    If it were David Lee it would be 27 boards and 11 points.  

    ..and he would have walked on Gatorade, fed 5000 fans with just two bottles of Pepsi and 5 trays of nachos, then raised Eddy Curry from the bench. Truly, he is the King of Kings. :-)

    Honestly, it was weird seeing him on the other team.

  69. Z-man

    One thing, D’Antoni has shortened his rotation to 8 players, good for getting wins, but I wonder if Turiaf can withstand the extended minutes. He has become quite indispensable. Hope we can spot Mozgov/Randolph in a bit more. I guess D’Antoni feels that this is a critical stretch, he needs to get some wins before the schedule gets tougher. Clippers, Bobcats twice, would be great to get back to .500. Then, let the real season begin!

  70. Frank O.

    BTW, I rad yesterday in the NY Post that Douglas has been fighting a back problem now for two weeks, which explains a hell of a lot about his game lately.
    I’m prepared to call and end to hunting season on TD until he gets his back right.
    And the Knicks need him to play in order to give Felton a blow from time to time.

    I crashed at half last night. West Coast games make me a bad dad in the morning, if I stay up for the entire affair.
    But judging from the thread, this was an exciting game. What I don’t like is tuning into ESPN and watching the game highlights which appear to be all about GSW, even though the Knicks win.
    Frustrating.

  71. Z-man

    I took a quick look at B-R to discern the key differences in individual splits between wins and losses. Not surprisingly, the most glaring difference is Gallo, reinforcing the suggestion that as Gallo goes, so goes the Knicks. Turiaf also plays more and better in our wins, and shoots a much higher percentage, albeit at a low volume. We lost all three games he didn’t play. Another thing that stood out (again, not surprisingly) is that Chandler shoots significantly better and less in wins than in losses. Amare and Felton seem pretty consistent stat-wise. Interestingly, Landry Fields seems to put up better stats in our losses, except for 3-pt shooting.

    Obviously a very small sample size, but this generally confirms what our eyes are telling us.

  72. d-mar

    Just looked at the box score – how did Gallo have zero rebounds? Shouldn’t a ball bounce off the rim and land in your hands at least once in a game? (just ask Eddy Curry) I have no problem with the way he played, but that’s pretty weird.

  73. greatscott

    Amare thinks these wins shows “swagger.” I wouldn’t be bragging about beating a David Lee-less Warriors, and the Clippers that are 1-12. As Brian said, not really all that impressive.

  74. Z-man

    “Swagger” may not be the best choice of words, and they are not playing like a team that is full of itself. I think he is referring to having confidence in their ability to win. David Lee or no David Lee, the Warriors would have beaten lots of teams playing the way they played last night.

    d-mar, might have been because GS was killing it from the perimeter and that both teams were shooting a high percentage. Seemed like he was either guarding guys outside on D or hanging out at the 3-pt line on O. Agree, though, that zero is not acceptable.

  75. ess-dog

    Crazy career night from Felton. But his 3pt shooting looks for real. So far he’s doubled his attempts from last year and is actually shooting at a higher clip – .393 not to mention .141 WS48 and a 19 plus PER – not too shabby.
    Tight rotation has definitely helped. Long minutes for Ronny could be a problem though. Mozgov has to step up eventually and give 10 minutes a game. I think he can do it. As for Randolph, it’s sad but he just doesn’t have a spot right now. Wilson pretty much has all of his minutes which I’m fine with frankly. Randolph’s best bet is to work hard and really learn the system and maybe he can take that spot back if there is some sort of Curry/Chandler trade at the deadline.
    Speaking of trades:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5828835
    This would be a nice pick up for the rebuilding Raptors and Jack would work well as a 3rd guard in N.O. A little surprised that N.O. is using the Stojakovic chip so soon, but I guess they’re really trying to appease CP3 and build a winner.

  76. nicos

    Brian Cronin: Well, there was also the Fields turnover. ;)But really, it was the 8:26 and the 7:48 shots that I was thinking at the time, “Why are you not going to Gallo?” They were both ugly shots by Amar’e and Felton that happened to go in. That’s when I was irked.But yes, oh, of course this game was much better than previous games, because Felton actually ended up giving the ball. Hell, Gallo got the ball from three different teammates for his three threes!! That was awesome to see.  

    Yeah both those shots seemed a little forced- though Amare’s was a good shot (open 15 footer) that looked weird because he was trying to draw a foul. I do think having Turiaf out there really helps Gallo as he’s just as good at finding open guys on the perimeter as he is hitting cutters. He also takes pressure off Felton- I don’t think Felton is freezing Gallo out at all, I just think he has more tunnel vision than you’d like from a point guard- I think he sees his primary target and one check down receiver- usually Amare and whoever is at the top of the key- he just doesn’t see the weak side well- maybe tunnel vision or maybe it’s just his size. Anyway, having Turiaf who does see the whole court as the safety valve guy really helps.

  77. nicos

    Also, whatever you think of Felton ability to run an offense, it’s hard to figure how his TS% was so bad for so long. I don’t expect him to stay at .600 (!!!) for the season but his stroke from three is solid- it’s not like he’s throwing up knuckleballs that are just happening to go in. And he’s really strong and uses his body well finishing inside so it’s hard to figure out why he was just as bad as Duhon finishing inside prior to last year- not having watched him that much, I wonder if that floater in the lane which he shoots really well isn’t something he’s just added in the last year or so.

  78. Mike Kurylo Post author

    Thomas B.:
    ..and he would have walked on Gatorade, fed 5000 fans with just two bottles of Pepsi and 5 trays of nachos, then raised Eddy Curry from the bench. Truly, he is the King of Kings. :-)Honestly, it was weird seeing him on the other team.  

    Just thought I’d let you know that the technical term for what you and BBA are doing is called “instigating.”

    It’s kinda when my kid says “don’t tickle me”, then sticks a pair of feet in my hands.

  79. JK47

    A backup PG is probably something this team should acquire. If Felton goes down with an injury we’re hopelessly thin at the PG position. Toney D as the main PG makes me feel like I’m going to throw up in my mouth a little. Let’s lose either Mason or Williams and pick up a journeyman PG who can give us some competent minutes.

  80. cgreene

    I think the swagger comment is fine. Amare’s job is to infuse his team with confidence. I don’t expect this team to take anyone lightly. And David Lee or not we all know that wins on the road in the NBA are valuable. When GS beat us we were without the glue to our defense in Turiaf and we only lost by a few. Was that the difference? Who knows? What is fact is that it would be harder to play better than Ellis and Curry played in the 2nd half and we still beat them. That team was 7-4 and undefeated at home where they have a good crowd. Nothing spectacular at all but solid road win.

    ps: Can’t help but thinking that Felton’s start reminds of Duhon ’08. But he seems to be getting better in the pnr with Amare. Also one thing that I really think knocked Duhon off his game in ’08 was the trading of Crawford and Randolph. He had many more options with them there and I think losing them really affected him. Lee was not the offensive threat at that time that he was last year. Felton on the other hand has a chance to grow with this team because they aren’t going to lose their 2 best offensive players. No?

  81. Nick C.

    Great game thank you DVR. Big shots by Gallo great to see. Props to Amare and Felton as well. Thanks for the info @ 220. Nice when what you assume is actually backed up with data.

  82. ess-dog

    JK47: A backup PG is probably something this team should acquire. If Felton goes down with an injury we’re hopelessly thin at the PG position. Toney D as the main PG makes me feel like I’m going to throw up in my mouth a little. Let’s lose either Mason or Williams and pick up a journeyman PG who can give us some competent minutes.  

    OK how about this:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
    IND gets the best player in Azu but he might not be needed with the emergence of Fields… plus we only have Azu through the end of the year I think.
    Ford gives us a veteran back up pg and Foster a vet back up center. Two things we need. And if they’re awful, they go away at the end of the year.

    Who says no?

  83. jaylamerique

    ess-dog:
    OK how about this:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
    IND gets the best player in Azu but he might not be needed with the emergence of Fields… plus we only have Azu through the end of the year I think.
    Ford gives us a veteran back up pg and Foster a vet back up center.Two things we need.And if they’re awful, they go away at the end of the year.Who says no?  

    Ford is a selfish player. i dont think this team needs a player with an attitude like that.

  84. d-mar

    @229 you can’t compare Felton’s start with Duhon’s in ’08. Duhon was racking up gaudy assist numbers and basically doing nothing else. Once teams figured out the PNR his value as a PG went way down. Felton is quicker, a better shooter, MUCH better at running the break and getting to the hole and a better defender. I know it’s a convenient time to be on the Felton bandwagon, but IMO he’s WAY better than Duhon.

  85. Ted Nelson

    d-mar: you can’t compare Felton’s start with Duhon’s in ’08. Duhon was racking up gaudy assist numbers and basically doing nothing else.

    How quickly we forget… Duhon had a TS% above 60% for a good chunk of that season and ended the entire season at 57%… It was not assists.

    d-mar: Once teams figured out the PNR his value as a PG went way down.

    What does the pnr have to do with missing wide open 3-pters and wide-open lay-ups that he was hitting the year before? That’s part of the explanation, but I am REALLY, REALLY tired of that oversimplification being preached as if it were gospel.

    I agree that Felton is better than Duhon, but you can’t just say he will definitely continue this hot start because he’s more athletic than Chris Duhon. His career high TS% was at 52.5% (only time he’s been above 50%) and he’s at 60% this season. His career high eFG% was 49.4% (only time it’s been above 45%) and it’s at 55%… Maybe it never comes but you have to reasonably *expect* a drop off. He took like 4 circus shots last night and hit all 4… that’s just not sustainable. There are some parallels between the two, but I doubt Felton falls off a cliff next season the way Duhon did. I think it will just be a gradual decline to a sustainable level. Hopefully that’s still well above his career #s.

    Also, though, to cgreene’s point: losing Crawford and Randolph didn’t have much to do with it. That was only 11 games into the season. He was on fire for at least the first half. Lee improved the next season, but he was already a damn fine player.

  86. latke

    ess-dog:
    OK how about this:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
    IND gets the best player in Azu but he might not be needed with the emergence of Fields… plus we only have Azu through the end of the year I think.
    Ford gives us a veteran back up pg and Foster a vet back up center.

    Right now, unless you make a major trade, you’re talking about an insurance point guard, and in that case, I think you’re better off picking up someone virtually free, like rafer alston (currently in the d-league).

    The other option is to make a play for a superior point guard and shift Felton into Douglas’s role. The problem is that even if you’re willing to part with Gallinari, I don’t know how much of an upgrade you can make. Do we really want 34 y/o Chauncey Billups? Even Nash, who would make the team a lot better, is 36 and can’t be expected to keep up his production for more than another year or so.

    The Knicks are set to have cap space this summer, so any trade that brings back a long term salary is going to eat into that, which really restricts their options. One trade that I’d be in favor of would be something like this. Philly gets Chandler and Douglas – younger and cheaper replacements for Iguodala and Williams. Iguodala is essentially Chandler but a much better passer. Williams is Douglas but a better penetrator, passer (still not great, but capable), and with a longer track record of shooting well from the perimeter. Speights has been mediocre so far under Collins, but in last year’s more fast-paced philly offense, he showed a great deal of promise. He could be the 3rd big man we need to play behind Amare and Turiaf.

    It sucks that we lose our cap room, but all the players we pick up have…

  87. d-mar

    @234 Ted, I had a feeling you were going to throw TS% and other advanced stats at me. All I know is what I see (and saw) – Duhon, playing for a coach who preached pushing the ball every possession, rarely did. You can’t quantify the impact of a PG who gets up the court quickly like Felton and creates easy transition baskets for himself and others and puts constant pressure on the defense. And I’m not stupid, I’m not expecting Felton to shoot 65% or whatever every game, but to suggest that he will automatically revert to some statistical mean is not necessarily valid either.

  88. Ted Nelson

    d-mar: Duhon, playing for a coach who preached pushing the ball every possession, rarely did.

    That’s not cgreene’s point, as I understand it. He never said Felton is Duhon. He compared their starts. Whatever you saw or didn’t see, Duhon had a very hot start with the Knicks no matter how you evaluate it. He was hitting his shots at a very high clip.

    The point I have made before and I understood cgreene to be making is that there is a parallel between Duhon hitting all his shots when he got to the Knicks and Felton doing the same.

    Whatever you see with your eyes, Felton takes the vast majority of his shots as jumpers. Through however many games 82games.com has up he had (has) taken 73% jumpers. He’s made an eFG% of 48.6% on those. His inside scoring has not actually improved from last season. This season: 27%, 57.5% eFG%. Last season: 37%, .582 eFG%. It’s gotten worse: he’s getting inside proportionately less and hitting slightly less of his shots. However, he only hit 44.3% eFG% of his jumpers last season. And that was a career high. It’s the jump shots going in.

    If you look objectively at what’s going on it’s hot shooting that’s why he’s off to a hot start. Maybe he’s improved his shot/shot selection and it will be hot from not until the end of his career. Either way, he’s shooting really hot. I would not expect it to continue at this high of a rate, but I can’t say it won’t of course. And I hope it does continue.

  89. ess-dog

    latke:
    Right now, unless you make a major trade, you’re talking about an insurance point guard, and in that case, I think you’re better off picking up someone virtually free, like rafer alston (currently in the d-league).The other option is to make a play for a superior point guard and shift Felton into Douglas’s role.The problem is that even if you’re willing to part with Gallinari, I don’t know how much of an upgrade you can make.Do we really want 34 y/o Chauncey Billups? Even Nash, who would make the team a lot better, is 36 and can’t be expected to keep up his production for more than another year or so.The Knicks are set to have cap space this summer, so any trade that brings back a long term salary is going to eat into that, which really restricts their options.One trade that I’d be in favor of would be something like this.Philly gets Chandler and Douglas – younger and cheaper replacements for Iguodala and Williams.Iguodala is essentially Chandler but a much better passer.Williams is Douglas but a better penetrator, passer (still not great, but capable), and with a longer track record of shooting well from the perimeter. Speights has been mediocre so far under Collins, but in last year’s more fast-paced philly offense, he showed a great deal of promise. He could be the 3rd big man we need to play behind Amare and Turiaf.It sucks that we lose our cap room, but all the players we pick up have…  

    That’s a serious “homer” trade latke. Really? They’re going to trade their two best guards for Chandler (an above average 6th man who expires after the year) and a guy that can’t drive a tractor into the side of a barn right now (and isn’t a starter either) in Douglas? Plus they give up Speights too?

  90. latke

    ess-dog:
    That’s a serious “homer” trade latke.Really?They’re going to trade their two best guards for Chandler (an above average 6th man who expires after the year) and a guy that can’t drive a tractor into the side of a barn right now (and isn’t a starter either) in Douglas?Plus they give up Speights too?  

    I suppose you’re right. Williams is not their second best guard though — Holiday is (or at least in their opinion he is, given that he’s starting).

    You could throw AR in but I don’t see why they want him since he’s even more dependent on the running game to get scores. What if it’s Fields instead of Chandler, and you get a team with cap space like Sacramento involved to make the numbers work? They appear to have given up on Speights – he’s only getting 10mpg – so I don’t know that his involvement has much bearing on the trade.

    As far as Chandler goes, his #s so far this season look very similar to Josh Smith’s #s at 23, or for that matter, Andre Iguodala’s #s at 23. All that, and his contract will probably be a lot smaller than AI’s.

  91. BigBlueAL

    Mike Kurylo:
    Just thought I’d let you know that the technical term for what you and BBA are doing is called “instigating.”
    It’s kinda when my kid says “don’t tickle me”, then sticks a pair of feet in my hands.  

    Hold up, I was joking just like Robert was when he talked about Amar’e had a Lee-esque game. Mr. Troll greatscott is the guy who annoyed me so I had to reply with my comment about how horrible David Lee has been on offense this season.

  92. ess-dog

    latke:
    I suppose you’re right.Williams is not their second best guard though — Holiday is (or at least in their opinion he is, given that he’s starting).You could throw AR in but I don’t see why they want him since he’s even more dependent on the running game to get scores.What if it’s Fields instead of Chandler, and you get a team with cap space like Sacramento involved to make the numbers work?They appear to have given up on Speights – he’s only getting 10mpg – so I don’t know that his involvement has much bearing on the trade.As far as Chandler goes, his #s so far this season look very similar to Josh Smith’s #s at 23, or for that matter, Andre Iguodala’s #s at 23.All that, and his contractwill probably be a lot smaller than AI’s.  

    If Chandler overcomes his early blight of three-point bombing which it looks like he has, and keeps up his current block % and rebounding%, he could be a poor man’s Josh Smith. He’s not as athletic or explosive, but he can do a lot of non-scoring things from the 3 or 4 spots. So far, he doesn’t assist nearly as well as JSmoove, but Smith didn’t turn that corner until his 24 yr old season.
    Who knows where Chandler will end up? I’m sure he’ll get the David Lee treatment at the end of the year – if he’s still here by then. I also have no idea what kind of contract he would get, based on the current market system.

  93. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    According to WP/48, it’s a huge upgrade for the Hornets. Peja and Bayless would have, according to the metric, been responsible for around -4 wins. Their players NOH acquired are a little less than replacement-level, and Jarrett Jack put up a ~0.150 WP/48 last year. The Hornets might actually get to 60 wins, which is incredible considering how bad they were without Paul!

  94. Robert Silverman

    If they’d waited till the deadline, they could have gotten a lot more. NO’s made some odd deals lately. The Ariza/Collison trade, considering Darren’s value was really high this off-season, and Trevor has slipped since the ’09 finals w/LA and has a lousy countract, the Willie Green + Jason Smith (never any good) for Brackens (their 1st rounder) deal, and now this. They’re getting vets, yes, but none of them make NO any better.

    Think Philly wouldn’t have dumped the last two years of Brand’s contract (and Brand has rediscovered some of his game) for Peja straight up at the deadline? To paraphrase John Wooden, their GM is mistaking activity for achievement.

  95. BigBlueAL

    According to Hollinger the Hornets still have close to 10 million in expiring contracts plus a trade exception for around 6 million so they still can make big moves during the season.

  96. ess-dog

    I would want Jack as my 3rd guard. Last year he was better than TD and he’s a better ball handler/passer. NO clearly likes their starters and wants to fill up the bench now. All of their starters are solidly above average (except Bellinelli who seems to be improving.)
    They probably could’ve done better, but they seem to be scared stiff of CP3 demanding a trade. After seeing the Melo mess, I’m sure they are trying to build as fast as they can.

  97. Z

    ess-dog: they seem to be scared stiff of CP3 demanding a trade.After seeing the Melo mess, I’m sure they are trying to build as fast as they can.  

    They’re also 10-1 in a very competitive division/conference. They probably feel pretty good about their team and don’t want to wait until the deadline to make significant changes. Better to do it now, than with eight weeks left in the season.

    But yes. #1 goal is to make Paul happy. #2 goal is winning. Luckily for everyone there, the two go hand in hand.

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