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Monday, August 19, 2019

2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Rockets

For your in-post game thoughts.

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153 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Rockets

  1. Frank O.

    Good lord. Had a great weekend with my wife in Staunton, Va., and I come back and things have not improved much.
    Meh…
    This stew is going to take some time to blend. I noticed how frustrated I was getting and realized my expectations were unrealistic. These guys are searching for an identity.
    D’Antoni is trying to figure these guys out, and our star is figuring out how to fit in after playing for one team since he was a teenager, or something.

    I would highly recommend a vacation to Staunton for anyone, btw. It has the only replica in the world of the original Blackfriars playhouse from Shakespear’s time, in which a troops celebrates the works of the master. It’s called the American Shakespeare Center Blackfriars Playhouse. The original Blackfriars was the first indoor theatre in the English-speaking world. (here’s a link, which has a virtual tour: http://www.americanshakespearecenter.com/v.php?pg=124)
    We had a fantastic time, with the audience on, around and above the stage and very much a part of the performances as they were supposed to be.
    Also the Woodrow Wilson presidential library is in Staunton. A beautiful town, with great B&Bs. I highly recommend it.

    By the looks of some of the posts from the Timberwolves game, some of you might need a getaway.:)

  2. BigBlueAL

    All I can say before the game is for the Love of God just freaking win tonight!! I dont care if it is by 1 or 20 just please beat a Rockets team w/o Yao and Brooks at home. Dont think Im asking for much :-)

  3. totti

    if losses will continue
    DW will be obliged to fire dantoni to save his life.

    i say
    fire dantoni now
    shuffle the roster

  4. Robert Silverman

    Totti – you don’t like the coach/GM. I think we all get that. No need to repeat it on every thread

  5. ess-dog

    Love the pt for AR. And nice to see him next to Moz. I like how mike is splitting up the minutes so far…

  6. Robert Silverman

    ess-dog: Moz is gettin screwed by the refs.  

    On his shot, maybe, but he’s “hacking and whacking” on D, as Clyde would say

  7. BigBlueAL

    For as bad as Felton is seeing the floor and running the pnr, he is Magic Johnson compared to Toney Douglas.

  8. jaylamerique

    BigBlueAL: For as bad as Felton is seeing the floor and running the pnr, he is Magic Johnson compared to Toney Douglas.  

    you are right. Douglas is not a very good pg. if his shot isnt falling, he really doesnt add anything to this team when he’s on the court especially when he is primary ball handler

  9. ess-dog

    How many times am I going to have to groan during this game?
    Ish Smith and Hill look like Nash and Amare…

  10. cgreene

    Very hard to figure out what exactly is wrong with this team, but it is clear that they are not a good team. We are getting destroyed by Chuck Hayes.

  11. latke

    so roger mason makes his first shot of the season. The knicks are playing pretty well. I liked the press. We got some nice shots off of that, but mason/douglas can’t buy a bucket.

  12. d-mar

    @35 what’s wrong with this team is at the PG position. No creativity, no pick and roll, no bullet passes for layups. Our offense is basically Amare 1 on1.

  13. ess-dog

    Wow, that was a perfect halfcourt series starting with Amare swinging the ball around to Gallo. More of that please.

  14. Garson

    we need to get rid of chandler asap… he is an example of the old knicks , shoot first mentality that gets me sick. STOP SHOOTING DAM 3s!!!

  15. d-mar

    Has anyone seen anything in this first half that would give you any hope for the rest of the season? I’d almost be happy sticking Nate in there right now to at least provide a spark. Very depressing being a Knick fan right now.

  16. cgreene

    d-mar: @35 what’s wrong with this team is at the PG position. No creativity, no pick and roll, no bullet passes for layups. Our offense is basically Amare 1 on1.  

    they don’t have the PG to run this system. and that actually is i think where the problem is. there is such a strict doctrine around the system instead of the players. felton, in a vacuum, has played well. it’s in the system that he hasn’t worked.

  17. Robert Silverman

    d-mar: Has anyone seen anything in this first half that would give you any hope for the rest of the season? I’d almost be happy sticking Nate in there right now to at least provide a spark. Very depressing being a Knick fan right now.  

    Um…

  18. jaylamerique

    cgreene:
    they don’t have the PG to run this system.and that actually is i think where the problem is.there is such a strict doctrine around the system instead of the players.felton, in a vacuum, has played well.it’s in the system that he hasn’t worked.  

    should we really be suprised that felton has struggled with p-n-r. wasnt the scouting report on him when he signed that he struggled with it while with the bobcats

  19. ess-dog

    cgreene:
    they don’t have the PG to run this system.and that actually is i think where the problem is.there is such a strict doctrine around the system instead of the players.felton, in a vacuum, has played well.it’s in the system that he hasn’t worked.  

    Our best halfcourt plays are not initiated by Felton. And on defense our guards are being out-quicked.

  20. cgreene

    i honestly think that we are going to win no more than 30-32 games. wow. i mean the teams we are losing to are the worst teams in the nba. if the season is really bad it will be worse for me than any during the isiah years. at least we could all root together for him to be fired.

  21. ess-dog

    cgreene: i honestly think that we are going to win no more than 30-32 games.wow.i mean the teams we are losing to are the worst teams in the nba.if the season is really bad it will be worse for me than any during the isiah years.at least we could all root together for him to be fired.  

    Eh. We didn’t play that well and we’re just down by 7. By the all-star break, a lot of the young kid mistakes should be cleared up. We’re just a young team. If we can get out and run while playing at least average NBA D, we’ll be ok. We just can’t have Felton hold the ball in the halfcourt set – yikes – it’s so ugly.

  22. ess-dog

    I don’t know why we didn’t just sign Ridnour instead of Felton. Sure Ridnour’s defense is terrible, but he would’ve been a good match with Amare on the pnr and just an all around good passer with at least as good an outside shot as Felton.

  23. cgreene

    ess-dog – let’s be honest we arent THAT young. our biggest minute players are felton, amare, gallo, chandler. averaging about 4.5 years of nba seasons per player right there.

    it would be great if we were seeing subtle improvements. but we aren’t. we are seeing digression. the defense was better in the first 5 games. the pnr has not improved. the shooting has not improved. the only thing we all seem to agree on is that landry fields is a solid player. but he’s not a game changer by any means.

    not trying to be such a pessimist. but i think we all know bad basketball when we see it. why are we getting worse?

  24. jaylamerique

    ess-dog: I don’t know why we didn’t just sign Ridnour instead of Felton.Sure Ridnour’s defense is terrible, but he would’ve been a good match with Amare on the pnr and just an all around good passer with at least as good an outside shot as Felton.  

    because he is a worse player. why would you want someone that is a downgrade over another pg. i know neither are that good but ill take the one that is better

  25. JK47

    cgreene: ess-dog – let’s be honest we arent THAT young.our biggest minute players are felton, amare, gallo, chandler.averaging about 4.5 years of nba seasons per player right there.it would be great if we were seeing subtle improvements.but we aren’t.we are seeing digression.the defense was better in the first 5 games.the pnr has not improved.the shooting has not improved.the only thing we all seem to agree on is that landry fields is a solid player.but he’s not a game changer by any means.not trying to be such a pessimist.but i think we all know bad basketball when we see it.why are we getting worse?  

    Without Turiaf, we don’t have anybody who can even PRETEND to play center. Mozgov is not an NBA rotation player at this time. Our perimeter shooting has gone hopelessly cold. Toney Douglas, Bill Walker and Roger Mason have been useless. Anthony Randolph is one of the dumbest players in the NBA, yet he’s probably one of the more effective guys on the team.

    We don’t have enough good players.

  26. ess-dog

    jaylamerique:
    because he is a worse player. why would you want someone that is a downgrade over another pg. i know neither are that good but ill take the one that is better  

    Not in 2009/10. Ridnour had a WS48 of .168 and a PER of 17.
    Ridnour was at least better on offense.

  27. cgreene

    Should Landry Fields be a larger part of the offensive sets? Maybe he can be a good ball man and see the roll man playing the 2 bc of his height.

  28. Robert Silverman

    Felton’s had two Pn’R connections with Chandler – it’s not like he can’t run it, it’s just he and Stat aren’t getting it.

  29. ess-dog

    cgreene: ess-dog – let’s be honest we arent THAT young.our biggest minute players are felton, amare, gallo, chandler.averaging about 4.5 years of nba seasons per player right there.it would be great if we were seeing subtle improvements.but we aren’t.we are seeing digression.the defense was better in the first 5 games.the pnr has not improved.the shooting has not improved.the only thing we all seem to agree on is that landry fields is a solid player.but he’s not a game changer by any means.not trying to be such a pessimist.but i think we all know bad basketball when we see it.why are we getting worse?  

    Gallo is barely 22. Wilson is 23. College seniors. And clearly, Wilson’s not that good. Felton Amare and Turiaf are the vets.

  30. hoolahoop

    The good news is that they are a young team discovering all the things they’re bad at: 3-pt shots, pnr, spacing on offense, moving the ball, defense. As soon as they find at what they’re good at they’ll be unstoppable. Unstoppable!
    Another positive is that they can’t get much worse. I’ve heard that you sometimes have to hit bottom before you can get your act together. We’re almost there.

  31. Robert Silverman

    And (tell me if I’ve said this before) the Nix are once again getting hosed by the refs when they drive to the hoop

  32. Thomas B.

    This game is so boring. At this rate, the Rockets will swap picks with the Knicks and select 4th, the Knicks will be 5th.

  33. latke

    This is one of those “find a way to lose” games. If it takes missing layups, then we’ll miss layups. We aren’t executing badly, and our defense has been acceptable, which would normally be enough to beat the rockets…

  34. cgreene

    This is going to be the earliest into a season that I am done prioritizing the watching of games. No dvring. No buying tickets. This team is going nowhere. Really bummed.

  35. jaylamerique

    Frank O.: Why is mason getting so many minutes? Has he shown himself worthy? Did I miss something?  

    well its probably either him or walker. so were screwed either way

  36. jaylamerique

    when does TD start receiving blame for knicks lost on this site. it seems that WC is the go to whipping boy but man has TD been horrible lately. i think he might be worse at his job then WC is at his

  37. latke

    OMG how long can we leave douglas out there? He isn’t even setting his feet for shots that the defense would give him twenty seconds to settle in and take. The guy had one thirty point game and then immediately forgot everything about HOW he got those thirty points other than the number of shots he took.

  38. Frank O.

    I’m going to the Pats Steelers game.
    Like to watch competent teams for a bit.
    Of course, pulling for the Steelers, since the Jets won.

  39. Spree8nyk8

    Ok, now I really do think they may need to fire D’antoni, when you go from a 1 pt lead to a 7 pt deficit you can’t leave Gallo, Amare, Chandler and fields on the fucking bench. Then it mushrooms into a 15 pt lead and all because D’antoni left his best on the bench and now he’s going to bring them all in way too late. STUPID STUPID STUPID

  40. Frank O.

    jaylamerique: when does TD start receiving blame for knicks lost on this site. it seems that WC is the go to whipping boy but man has TD been horrible lately. i think he might be worse at his job then WC is at his  

    Now. Worst thing to happen to TD was he had a couple hot games. Now he thinks he can do that all the time and he’s killing the Knicks…

  41. Robert Silverman

    Hey. The iso to Stat in the post didn’t work the first 6 times this quarter. Let’s try it one more time!

  42. latke

    proposal: D’Antoni tells all the players to lay down at center court. 5 second violations after every Houston dunk. If you don’t care to win a game, at least give the fans something to talk about. Plus, the rockets could let courtney lee and jordan hill put on a dunking exhibition. I like dunks.

  43. Frank O.

    There’s just no discipline.
    D’Antoni needs to knuckle down on these young clowns. This is a team that makes lots and lots of mental errors.
    Someone needs to make the dumb end.
    You know, Heb Williams is the only guy that has consistently played a role on this team. Maybe it’s time to fire him.:)

  44. Spree8nyk8

    I just don’t understand how something simple like when you see Toney hoisting up bad shot after bad shot and missing by miles, along with fucking roger mason clanking the ball to halfcourt, why something like that doesn’t trigger an “ah shit I gotta make some subs before this gets out of hand”

  45. Robert Silverman

    I’m no coach, but I think it’s hard to win when you score two points in the first 6 mins of a quarter

  46. Frank O.

    I was saying to my wife early, but clyde just reminded me: this team has no leadership on the floor.
    Felton needs to be that guy, but he doesn’t seem to have it in him yet

  47. ess-dog

    See why does Chandler get 32 minutes despite bonehead plays but Randolph gets pulled after 10 minutes?

  48. KWill

    Now..I’ve been reading this site for a long time now..and I always wanted to comment but never really did cause everyone always said my exact thoughts..so no need to reiterate right? But! Tonight..this game has me officially wanting to give up on this team..

  49. BigBlueAL

    cgreene:
    no.the 2012 pick is top 5.the 2011 swap is top 1.  

    Yeah I just looked it up too. Read the same thing you just posted. Only saving grace is the Rockets should miss the playoffs too so the Knicks will have a lottery pick in 2011 one way or the other.

  50. Frank O.

    Wow. A well-timed time out by a coach. The game doesn’t get away from the rockets…
    so that’s what that is like…

  51. Nick C.

    96 and 98 ditto. TD misses then lolls back while Martin makes a layup. Shots can come and go but effort is another story. Tho the rest of them are pretty much Keystone Kops … not finishing cuts so the ball goes OOB, lazy inbounds, dribbling off foot. Oh the pain of watching this game. To think they were up 1 in the 3rd.

  52. d-mar

    I say do whatever it takes to get Nash. Give up half the team, at least we’d have one intelligent player on the floor.

  53. Frank O.

    KWill: Now..I’ve been reading this site for a long time now..and I always wanted to comment but never really did cause everyone always said my exact thoughts..so no need to reiterate right? But! Tonight..this game has me officially wanting to give up on this team..  

    some other new guy said the same thing recently…

  54. BigBlueAL

    Chandler loves shooting 20 ft jumpers. Dumbest shot in basketball but its Chandler’s favorite shot.

  55. Frank O.

    WC 6-14,
    TD 1-11
    Mason 1-5
    Felton 5-15

    Landry Fields…5-5

    Yeah, those other guys need to keep gunning because the young guy just doesn’t get it done…
    WTF

  56. jaylamerique

    ess-dog: See why does Chandler get 32 minutes despite bonehead plays but Randolph gets pulled after 10 minutes?  

    that is because chandler has pictures of Coach D.. it is blackmail.

  57. d-mar

    You gotta love Wilson Chandler. Pass up a 3, dribble, then shoot a brick 6 inches in front of the 3 pt. line.

  58. BigBlueAL

    Its always a sad moment when you finally come to the realization the team you root so badly for just plain old sucks. Especially when it comes only 10 games into the season.

  59. ess-dog

    I can’t commit another 2 and a half hours of my life again until these bums win a game. Goodnight everyone.

  60. cgreene

    this is the lowest point of all in a decade that has seen so many of them from our favorite team if only because we were supposed to be seeing signs of potential and something new. it doesn’t feel that way at all. the rule that i set for myself over the last few years when i felt the season was hopeless and watching really the opposite of fun and relaxing was that it would take a 5 game win streak for me to pay detailed attention again. that’s where i am today.

  61. hoolahoop

    If the Knicks were Lebron’s second choice, he’s gotta be feeling a little better about the “decision”.

  62. BigBlueAL

    Hahn just tweeted this quote from Amar’e after the game:

    “We’re not playing like we’re on 4 gm losing streak, now 5. We don’t have a sense of urgency. It’s almost as if it doesn’t matter.”

    Welcome to the Knicks Amar’e.

  63. rrude

    cgreene: this is the lowest point of all in a decade that has seen so many of them from our favorite team if only because we were supposed to be seeing signs of potential and something new.it doesn’t feel that way at all.the rule that i set for myself over the last few years when i felt the season was hopeless and watching really the opposite of fun and relaxing was that it would take a 5 game win streak for me to pay detailed attention again.that’s where i am today.  

    Yeah, this is where I have been since Isiah as well. It’s not just that they lose, it’s that they’re actually unprofessional in multiple senses of the word. It’s ugly, amateur basketball. I always hope they win, but can’t bear to watch them bumble around.

  64. JK47

    I really don’t think Mike D’Antoni is the right coach for this team. These guys need to be taught basic fundamentals of basketball. Having a bunch of young guys running around heaving up bricks in this gimmicky system is a recipe for FAIL. The only keepers I see around here are Stoudemire, Gallinari and Fields. The rest of the roster is a bunch of guys who don’t know how to play. Basic things like closing out on jump shots, boxing out, running the pick and roll… It’s kindergarten out there.

    Sure, give D’Antoni another 20 or 30 games to turn it around. I’m not real optimistic at this point.

  65. nicos

    That’s two straight games where the Knicks had fairly simple defensive tasks they couldn’t accomplish- In Minnesota they needed to keep Love off the boards and make someone besides Beasley shoot the ball, tonight they just had to make sure to make someone besides Martin and Scola beat them- at times you had Lowry, Hayes, and Battier on the floor- 3 guys you can help off of and they still couldn’t get stops.

    Speaking of offensively challenged lineups- how can D’Antoni roll out a lineup of Douglas, Timo, AR, Mason, and Chandler?? If I’m yelling at the TV saying they have to get Chandler some shots something is very, very wrong. The last couple of games D’A has been subbing out both Fields and Gallo at the same time midway through the 3rd- why take both of them out?? Especially with TD struggling. Without Turiaf (and with Douglas playing poorly) going with a complete second unit that worked pretty well early in the year has been a disaster.

    And no more Mason, please, please, please.

  66. Z

    One year ago today the Knicks were 1-9. The team looked unprepared coming out of the preseason. They looked lost on offense. But it was okay, because it was a tank year.

    Now here we are 3-7. The team was unprepared coming out of preseason. They look lost on offense.

    Here’s Mike’s post from 11/14/2009 about what was ailing the Knicks at the time. Following it are 98 comments, mostly about how Chandler shouldn’t be allowed to shoot and that the PG is the main problem with the offense.

    What a difference a year makes!

    http://knickerblogger.net/three-days-of-practice/

  67. massive

    I’m sort of glad Amar’e called everybody out. I think he mentioned that when he has to score, its at the expense of the team? Sounds like he’s taking some sort of accountability for this losing skid. Maybe we can steal one on the road in Denver?

    I don’t know why, but I’m foolishly optimistic about this bunch. Even though we lost tonight, Indiana and Cleveland are holding the 7th and 8th playoff seeds respectively (something I don’t see either team, well Indiana, doing for much longer). We’ve got to get better, I just don’t see how this team can be so bad. I really believe we will improve.

  68. BigBlueAL

    The Suns hits 22 3pters tonight in a win in LA vs the Lakers. So thats how this system is supposed to work!! lol

  69. BigBlueAL

    Also why didnt the Rockets keep single covering Amar’e like they did in the 1st quarter damnit!! This quadruple teaming him in the 2nd half is not fair.

  70. latke

    It pained me to watch the fourth quarter again with Felton sort walk/jogging the ball up, stopping at the three point line, then swinging the ball around for ten seconds, then giving it in to Amare. STAT did his damn best to carry the team tonight and was the only one making plays, but he can’t do it alone.

    I kind of want to rename this team the The Fainting Goats because as soon as a game gets too intense, they lay down. It wasn’t just bad shots, it was bad possessions and ridiculous unforced turnovers and terrible transition defense (after really good transition D in the first half). And Houston was NOT playing particularly well. They had a number of bad turnovers that the Knicks could not convert. There were also a number of lucky bounces and rolls that came the Knicks’ way, and again, missed layups, poor court awareness.

    I’m beginning to wonder if maybe we miss Turiaf more for his mental impact on the team — his positivity and intensity — than for his interior defense. Yes, we played some bad games before he got hurt, but Philly put together a good game, and Milwaukee is a good team. These past two losses have come against bad teams that haven’t played particularly well. Love’s rebounding fiasco came as a result of bad effort by the knicks as much as out of his own talent, and his offense was pretty terrible. Most of his points came off of rebounds or defensive knick lapses. THe same with tonight. We got raped for the last 18 minutes by a bad team playing mediocre basketball.

  71. rrude

    Obviously we miss Turiaf. I’d like to see Azubuike take Walker and Mason’s minutes when he’s healthy. At this point, I’d rather see Rautins get some burn than suffer through Toney trying to play point. Give him Walker/Mason’s minutes at least. He can’t be more invisible on defense.

    nicos:
    Speaking of offensively challenged lineups- how can D’Antoni roll out a lineup of Douglas, Timo, AR, Mason, and Chandler??If I’m yelling at the TV saying they have to get Chandler some shots something is very, very wrong.The last couple of games D’A has been subbing out both Fields and Gallo at the same time midway through the 3rd- why take both of them out??Especially with TD struggling.Without Turiaf (and with Douglas playing poorly) going with a complete second unit that worked pretty well early in the year has been a disaster.
    And no more Mason, please, please, please.  

    I agree completely. I have tried to resist jumping all over D’Antoni, but right from the start his sub patterns have been absolutely mystifying. The weird arbitrary idea of having five bench players on the court together at once, keeping Gallo out for extended stretches for no apparent reason, and his failure to react quickly enough when the team starts to get ragged are just a few of the offenses. Watch a Spurs game if you want to see how a real coach handles his rotation and timeouts.

    Anyone else feel like a different coach would have tried to put Gallo at the 4 and develop a little post game? I ask because on O, there’s no way Chandler plays the 4, although I have gathered from the fine folks on here that statistically he guards 4’s well(?). Obviously the old roles are a bit rigid and perhaps obsolete but I miss tall guys trying to get buckets in the paint.

  72. david

    Both Chandler (a player I’ve never liked) and Douglas (I player I’ve always liked) have been put in a place where what is asked of them is way beyond what they can give. Chandler cannot really play the 4 — he’s too small to guard power forwards and not dominating enough offensively to take advantage of being guarded by a big (it makes him want to take 3s, which is as, everyone has noted, a disaster). Douglas is asked to take over the offense when he comes in and he’s not that kind of player — I think if he was only taking open 3s or driving when a defender is running at him, he’d be within what he can do as an offensive player (I actually liked his defense tonight.)

    If I had my druthers, we’d play someone tall next to Amare at all times — Turiaf when he’s heathly, or Randolph, who looked good on d (if completely clueless on offense), or Mozgov (who was a disaster, but so it goes). Chandler would play at the 3 as a backup, and steal some minutes at the 2 (something I didn’t want to see at the beginning of the season but now, well, things have changed). We’d run a lot more plays for Gallo, including a Felton/Gallo pick and pop, like the Nash/Frye play the suns run at the top of the key all the time.

  73. d-mar

    Bright spots for the Knicks so far this season:

    1) Landry Fields

    Disappointments so far this season:

    1) The rest of the team

  74. Nick C.

    hoolahoop: Fire D’antoni. Fire Walsh. Now!  (Quote)

    That might sound good but in all likelihood such an act would mean Dolan would bring back his BFF, which means Gilbert Arenas would be coming this way for Fields and Gallo would be traded for a “more athletic” player like Antawn Jamison. Just sayin’. Be careful what you wish for.

  75. hoolahoop

    It would be hard to do worse, and big deal if we do, 26 wins instead of 32. I was elated when D’antoni was signed. Now I know – it was all Nash, the smartest, gutsiest point guard of our time. If we don’t get rid of D’antoni-Walsh, then getting a top tier point guard is that much more imperative. We don’t need Carmelo, we need a quarterback. That should be our mission.

  76. SJK

    hoolahoop,

    We can’t just get a top tier point guard just because we want one. We don’t necessarily have the pieces to acquire one, and there is not necessarily a top tier point guard available. Also, this is only 9 games into the season. Yes, we’ve played awfully, but give it some time. Remember that this team is comprised of a bunch of guys who have never played with each other before. I’m not saying their play is excusable, but it’s not time to call the whole season a failure and fire D’Antoni and Walsh yet. We need Carmelo because he is the best we can get.

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