Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 23, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Raptors

An interview with Sam Holako of the Raptors Republic.

1. Toronto has lost both games to New York so far this year. What adjustments do they need to make against the Knicks in the third game?

To start, it would be nice to hit some free throws (11-22 last game). For all the talk of the Raptors improved defense, folks have been getting plenty of open looks from all over the floor against them. Sunday against the Raptors, the Knicks took 29 threes, with more than 20 of them being damn good looks. A lot of that came from the attention Amar’e was getting in the paint, Felton on the perimeter, and Landry on the glass.

Offensively, Weems and DeRozan need to do a better job of attacking the basket, and putting pressure on the Knicks defense every time they catch the ball in motion. That, and they need to not give up so many bloody open looks (the bench didn’t help much either in each regard). Bargnani needs to use his size in the post to his advantage, and not fall in love with shooting pull-up (long) jumpers.

Unless Bargnani is hitting every shot, or a majority of the players are carrying their weight, than the Raptors will have a hard time winning the game because the Knicks can play at the pace the Raptors like to play at, but do a better job of it…must be something to do with coaching.

2. Amir Johnson has some impressive statistics, namely TS%, per-minute rebounds, and blocks. What is the mainstream/common-man impression of him?

He is probably the most loved Raptor on the team because he really plays hard every minute he’s on the floor. The general consensus is that if Amir can get his foul troubles under control, he could be a 15pts 10reb type of player. As is, he’s hit or miss in that department, with folks willing to look the other day on nights he’s on the bench because foul trouble has him planted there. I think the kid has potential, and needs some solid mentoring to learn how to think the game, and not act on sheer instinct and athletic ability.

3. How are the guys from New Orleans fitting in?

Peja got the craziest ovation the first time he checked into a game at home, I’ve never heard anything like it; gave me goosebumps. He has a big following in Toronto, but he’s really only good for spot-up duty off the bench – could be a Spur in a couple months… Bayless was the clear winner from the trade. The kid is fitting in nicely on this team, and seems poised to live up to some of the potential folks saw in him in Indiana and Portland that has yet to materialize. I’ve actually been really happy with his willingness to drive to the rack in traffic.

4. Now that the Raptors have gone a quarter season without Chris Bosh, how is the franchise adjusting?

It’s really bittersweet; the ball movement is much better, and the guys are actually playing like a team and not standing around watching Bosh go to work. On the flip side, there isn’t a guy on the team you can throw the ball into and let him manufacture something with a high degree of reliability; not even Bargnani. It would be nice to get a guy who could do that, but to tell you the truth, this team is much more fun to watch this season.

5. Which guy on the Knicks, other than Stoudemire or Felton, do you wish were on the Raptors?

That’s easy, for me it’s Landry Fields (with Chandler the next choice). He’s a very smart player and is able to pick his spots to score. I really love his rebounding ability. He reminds me a lot of Shane Battier.

345 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Raptors

  1. Aharon

    It’s good to here that the love of Landry is spreading north of the border as well :-)
    Let’s make it six tonight! (is “firsties” permitted? If so- firsties!)

  2. Aharon

    A question to the fellow readers- I feel like the last couple days have generated a LOT more noise about how good the Knicks have become and how they’re becoming a force to be reckoned with. Are teams going to start “getting up” for them soon (like how teams play harder against “good” teams)?

  3. taggart4800

    Basketball reference gave me only 2 realistic targets for a back up center with a TRB% above 15. Tony Battie and Jamaal Magloire. Not exactly mouth watering but I think despit the differences between the two teams we could get Magloire especially with Miller’s injury. But do you really want to give the heat a knock down shooter?
    From the D-League produced Dwayne Jones 22% and Marcus Campbell 20%. Campbells peripheral numbers are better but both these two guys are playing weaker opposition. Campbell is 7-0 213!! Not exactly Shaq but he obviously can grab a bound or 2.

  4. taggart4800

    By the way the results of the NBA search were for C’s 30+ and the results were for the last 2 seasons. NBDL figures were for last year.

  5. marxster

    Aharon: A question to the fellow readers- I feel like the last couple days have generated a LOT more noise about how good the Knicks have become and how they’re becoming a force to be reckoned with. Are teams going to start “getting up” for them soon (like how teams play harder against “good” teams)?  

    Hey Aharon,

    My feeling is that the fact that the Knicks have played some mediocre teams so far may have people hold off on calling them one of the better teams for another couple of weeks.

    I don’t want to diminish what they’ve achieved so far, after all they don’t put their own schedule together. What I’m saying is, let’s wait until after December. If the momentum and confidence that we’re building now helps us to win a couple games agains the Bostons, Miamis, OKCs of the league, we can be happy. Then we’ll certainly see other teams bring their best efforts when they play the Knicks.

  6. NYK Ewing

    So far this season, we’ve beaten two teams so far that have a record of over .500: the Bulls and the Hornets, and they both were missing their second best (or third, depending on how you want to rank Boozer) player.

    Translation – we still need to play this game hungry for wins and not let the newfound media attention get to our heads. I’m hoping Dantoni and Amare still have the attitude they had at .500 of needing to win more. The last thing we need is an upset loss at home going into this next stretch of games.

  7. tastycakes

    The next two weeks are going to be fascinating, especially with the 5 games at home against playoff teams (DEN, BOS, MIA, OKC, CHI).

    It’s fortuitous that the tough part of the schedule begins with the trickiest matchups on the home court, and hopefully the guys can keep it rolling and go at least 3-2 against the top dogs.

    But can’t overlook TOR and WAS before the madness begins. One of my preseason predictions was that we’d see a 6-game winning streak (I know, pretty audacious of me!) and tonight should be the night.

  8. Nick C.

    Thanks for sharing the interview. Nice to see Landry and Felton getting some recognition. My snarky take would be there was not a word about Gallo. Let’s hope the team can keep their focus and take care of business tonite.

  9. taggart4800

    If Amare produces reasonable numbers against DEN and BOS you have to figure the hype surrounding the MIA game will be pretty big. It will be a big matchup for Bosh also, I see them looking for Bosh to get his offense going in that game. A – to prove a point and B – to occupy Amare enough to limit his production.

    Tonights game is just as big though, I comlpletely agree NYK Ewing that it would be a pretty devastating loss tonight. It would be disappointing to see this team play so well and then carelessly throw one away. The tone needs to be set early and I think the team really saw how well they can play when their defense is on point, in the win against MIN. If they can come out in the 1st the way they did in the 3rd of that game then I think they will have little trouble getting the W.

  10. BigBlueAL

    Melo out tonight with a bad right knee. Having an MRI on it on Friday. Apparently it has been bothering him for a couple of weeks.

  11. knixfanatic

    Really looking forward too this gamee.. i have a good feeling tht the knix will pull this one out again.. but tell me what you guys feel about this.

    We trade –
    Anthony randolph
    Bill walker
    Andy rautins

    We get-
    Javale Mcgee

    if we can i would doo this deal in a heartbeat as i know tht javale will be an all star in the near future

  12. Spree8nyk8

    Aharon: It’s good to here that the love of Landry is spreading north of the border as well :-)
    Let’s make it six tonight! (is “firsties” permitted? If so- firsties!)  

    guess 20 mins early is no longer early enough :P

  13. Spree8nyk8

    tastycakes: One of my preseason predictions was that we’d see a 6-game winning streak (I know, pretty audacious of me!) and tonight should be the night.  

    I’m betting that when you predicted that you didn’t think that 6 game streak would be part of an 11/12 streak lol.

  14. TDM

    I’m not sure about the Battier comparison. I think Fields has demonstrated more athleticism and scoring ability than Battier. Battier is probably a better defender, but Fields gets the edge on rebounding.

  15. bockadoo

    Gonna be tough to beat a team 3 straight that we’re not THAT MUCH better than, even though we do seem to match up well against them.
    Regarding AR – how can he be THAT bad? Didn’t he have good numbers and not play only because of injury last year? I saw a comment that said he plays like he’s never been coached? Can’t he just be told to get in there, get some boards, block some shots, with no plays called for him? We’re gonna burn out Amare’ if we’re not careful. Seems to me he could play 10 minutes, spend some fouls without hurting the team too much.
    What’s the latest on Azu?

  16. Spree8nyk8

    It’s kinda funny, 2 weeks ago I completely dreaded getting to the 15th of December because of the daunting schedule. Now I can’t wait to get there. For one because I wanna know how good this team is, and for 2 because I really really want everyone to have to shut the fuck up about the easy schedule. I promise you if you give our last 11 games to Miami, Boston, or the Lakers you’d be pretty hard pressed to have any of them go 10-1, especially given all the road games. Winning is winning, and sure, when the schedule gets tougher sure that’s going to fall back a bit. But damn man 10-1 is beast, and I’m so sick of having to hear all these people talk about what we havent done yet.

    anyway get pumped up for the game
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u65FuWgoVYs

  17. Jake S.

    Randolph to Detroit for a first round pick. Curry, Azu and pick to Sacramento for Dalembert. Who says no?

  18. Robert Silverman

    Jake S.: Randolph to Detroit for a first round pick. Curry, Azu and pick to Sacramento for Dalembert. Who says no?  

    Me. Donnie Walsh.

  19. Spree8nyk8

    bockadoo: Gonna be tough to beat a team 3 straight that we’re not THAT MUCH better than, even though we do seem to match up well against them.
      

    Not sure if I can agree with this statement, if you look at how we started the season, when it was obvious how green the team was we still beat them by 5, then like 16 or so games later once the team has started clicking we beat them by 17. Same thing as Minny, they embarrassed the Knicks early on, but this team is so much better now, even with them shooting the lights out they still were beaten fairly easily.

  20. Spree8nyk8

    Jake S.: Assuming, of course, that Melo’s not happening. What’s the harm?  

    Why would you assume that Melo is not happening?

  21. Doug

    TDM: I’m not sure about the Battier comparison.I think Fields has demonstrated more athleticism and scoring ability than Battier.Battier is probably a better defender, but Fields gets the edge on rebounding.  

    I hate to be THAT GUY but I’m worried it’s the “light skinned biracial guy” thing.

  22. Jake S.

    I thought the ESPN trade machine was constructed for goofy, implausible trades. The hell with you all.

  23. latke

    Doug:
    I hate to be THAT GUY but I’m worried it’s the “light skinned biracial guy” thing.  

    Speaking of biracial dudes, the Doug Christie comparison made more sense to me than Battier. Battier is a defensive beast and 3pt shooter. Fields is a good defensive player but not of Battier’s caliber. He’s also not the perimeter shooter that Battier is. He’s more of a slasher type. His overall game though still makes me think of Josh Childress most. Rebounding, solid defense, low usage.

  24. bockadoo

    These trades that are being mentioned seem short-sighted. I think we have potentially interesting pieces already on the team (AR, Mozgov, TD) that play positions where we need help. We’re not going to win the championship this year anyway, so why not keep everyone and re-evaluate later in the year/even next year – unless there’s a no-brainer that someone drops in our lap. This franchise is turning the corner to the point that other teams will come to US, deperate like we used to be.

  25. Mulligan

    bockadoo: These trades that are being mentioned seem short-sighted.I think we have potentially interesting pieces already on the team (AR, Mozgov, TD) that play positions where we need help.We’re not going to win the championship this year anyway, so why not keep everyone and re-evaluate later in the year/even next year – unless there’s a no-brainer that someone drops in our lap.This franchise is turning the corner to the point that other teams will come to US, deperate like we used to be.  

    Agree with all of this. The only wrinkle for me is that we supposedly have an asset with Eddy Curry’s contract, and I’d love to do something with that… although honestly just cutting him after the trade deadline and bringing in a d-leaguer would be fine by me as well.

  26. Spree8nyk8

    Something funny I’ve noticed with League Pass Broadband, I guess since the feed is a few seconds behind the live action theres a delay large enough to where i you have the stats thing open, you can tell whose gonna score before it happens lol. Theres a lot of times where know how many points a certain player will have and I’ll look up and see them +2 or +3 and sure enough 5-10 seconds later….score the bucket…

  27. Mulligan

    Dudes, has anyone talked about Gallo taking sartorial tips from Turiaf? It’s been a couple of weeks now… dude’s attempting to grow a beard, no?

  28. Mulligan

    Gallo’s playing with almost a bit too much energy.. dude’s pumped for this game for some reason!

  29. Jake S.

    I think Gallo should go back to the faux hawk. I think it helped him stay centered on his jump shots.

  30. Spree8nyk8

    Doug:
    Yeah… sure… League Pass…
    *shifty eyes*  

    Trust me lol, after spending all of last season on ATDHE I was 100% sure I was getting league pass broadband this year, got really tired of having games go off in the fourth and all that, so I spent the 100 bucks 3 games into the season.

  31. Robert Silverman

    Interesting stretch in this game. Stat’s out till at least halfway through the 2nd period. Who’s carrying the offense? Might be Shawne Williams time

  32. Doug

    Spree8nyk8:
    Trust me lol, after spending all of last season on ATDHE I was 100% sure I was getting league pass broadband this year, got really tired of having games go off in the fourth and all that, so I spent the 100 bucks 3 games into the season.  

    dogg you are a braver man than I for watching so many games last season.

  33. Frank O.

    Weird. I’m getting msg,
    Got to say, listening to other teams announcers makes me appreciate that the Knicks guys are less homers.
    Example, they call Knick fouls, fouls. They don’t make shit up

  34. Thomas B.

    The interview with Raptors Republic was a great change of pace for the game thread. Much better than that guy who writes previews with stats and what to watch for. What a waste of time. ;)

    The Toronto pbp team is awful. They just compared Chandler to Marion. They called a three pointer “Hitting the Jimmy.” Okay you cancucks, here in America a jimmy means something unrelated to basketball.

  35. Robert Silverman

    Clyde just called Tina Cervasio, “TEA-ner.” Combined with, “Barn-YAR-knee,” makes for a linguist’s delight/nightmare

  36. Spree8nyk8

    Robert Silverman: Clyde just called Tina Cervasio, “TEA-ner.” Combined with, “Barn-YAR-knee,” makes for a linguist’s delight/nightmare  

    Definitely makes the closed caption person work overtime!

  37. Spree8nyk8

    larrondo: Atdhe just shut went dead on my screen– disabled due to a copyright claim, it says.  

    Try the other link, then go back in about 20 mins, ATDHE updates links when stuff like that happens but it takes a little bit of time. This was the reason I switched to LPBB

  38. marxster

    Give the Knicks credit for coming out with energy though. The Knicks of old would have slept through the first three quarters.

  39. latke

    I think D’Antoni should give Anthony randolph a shot at defending bargnani. He’s the only reason toronto is in this game, let alone winning.

  40. Robert Silverman

    That does it. Stat’s getting fouled and nothing’s called and that’s the third bs and-one.

    Refs is hosing us!!!!!

  41. david

    Anyone think we should play gallo on bargiani? COuldn’t be worse than what we’ve done thusfar…

  42. hoolahoop

    Felton & TD: STOP SHOOTING!
    The knicks are in chaos because these guys are not creating, they’re scoring. Team is out of control. Where’s the court general? Bad shots taken by whole team because the point guard is not setting them up. . . because they’re busy looking to score. Point guards job is to make everyone look good. This is the old knicks. They look like crap.

  43. micdan

    men the last basket that the raptors made that wasn’t suppose to count. if it wasnt for the referee the ball would have been out of bound. the referee are sucking the game in favor to the raptors. 10 fouls in the first quarter.

  44. Spree8nyk8

    Robert Silverman:
    Luckbox?  

    Poker term, used when someone catches an extremely fortunate card to get bailed out in a hand. You can use it for anyone that is lucky though, guy shots and hits front iron and the ball goes 8 feet high and then drops straight in you say he’s a “luckbox”

  45. Robert Silverman

    Spree8nyk8:
    Poker term, used when someone catches an extremely fortunate card to get bailed out in a hand.You can use it for anyone that is lucky though, guy shots and hits front iron and the ball goes 8 feet high and then drops straight in you say he’s a “luckbox”  

    Gracias

  46. david

    Toronto’s team is so odd — three guys who can explode for 35-40 when hot but aren’t very good, just volume scorers (Barbosa, Kleiza, Bayless) and a starting lineup without much scoring at all.

    Also, Felton!

  47. hoolahoop

    Felton scoring so much is unhealthy. He looks like Marbury on a good night. The knicks have a much better chance if he’s getting good shots for his teammates easy looks. His passes are just dump offs when he’s not shooting.

  48. rohank

    FIELDS!!! and even the raptors announcers were impressed!

    Sorry I’m late to the party – was watching Home Alone 2 ;-)

  49. Frank O.

    hoolahoop: Felton scoring so much is unhealthy. He looks like Marbury on a good night. The knicks have a much better chance if he’s getting good shots for his teammates easy looks. His passes are just dump offs when he’s not shooting.  

    Dude have you been watching Felton these past 10 games? He’s been scoring and setting up his teammates.
    here are his last 10 games:
    18 pts, 11 assists
    18 and 8
    17 and 13
    21 and 10
    23 and 11
    18 and 4
    23 and 13
    16 and 9
    20 and 7
    35 and 11
    I mean, sometimes these in game assumptions are a bit unfair

  50. Nick C.

    Sweet Wilt Chamberlain finger roll by Amare to give the Knicks the lead at the half. Who woulda thunk they would have turned it around so fast.

  51. Mulligan

    Man, I love Ray Felton. Dude has that tough swagger that reminds me of what I always loved about the Knicks

  52. Frank O.

    What I love about Felton is he gives them what they need when they need it.
    Need a defensive play, Ray denies and inbound pass.
    Need some scoring, Ray pushes the ball or penetrates.
    Need to get people involved, he moves the ball to the right guy.

    Ray is becoming a very effective guard.

  53. Spree8nyk8

    Mulligan: Man, I love Ray Felton. Dude has that tough swagger that reminds me of what I always loved about the Knicks  

    He has Derek Harper’s IQ with John Starks heart, how can you not love him.

  54. marxster

    Just checked in on the Boston vs Denver game. On a Denver turnover, Nate Robinson led the fastbreak and quickly took a 3-pointer. The announcers quickly said that “that’s a shot you take on a losing team, that’s a NY Knicks shot”.

  55. Frank O.

    marxster: Just checked in on the Boston vs Denver game. On a Denver turnover, Nate Robinson led the fastbreak and quickly took a 3-pointer. The announcers quickly said that “that’s a shot you take on a losing team, that’s a NY Knicks shot”.  

    Nate…frustrating a new group of fans. :)
    Better them than us.

  56. Robert Silverman

    re: Felton’s scoring — The Raps are really clogging the lane on the PnR and daring someone else to beat them (which Felton is doing).

    It’s not like he’s Marburying (i.e. ball-hogging)

  57. Frank O.

    Robert Silverman: re: Felton’s scoring — The Raps are really clogging the lane on the PnR and daring someone else to beat them (which Felton is doing).
    It’s not like he’s Marburying (i.e. ball-hogging)  

    Yeah, I mean comparing him to Marbury is defamation

  58. marxster

    Frank O.:
    Nate…frustrating a new group of fans. :)
    Better them than us.  

    Right, but remarks like that always make me think. How far can we go with D’Antoni’s system? Should we take less 3s?

  59. Robert Silverman

    For those who haven’t “Eternal Sunshine-d” the Isiah years, can you believe the Nix were offered Kleiza for Lee a few years back — and Zeke almost pulled the trigger?

  60. Frank O.

    I don’t think that applies to a team shooting 41 percent from 3 in recent weeks.
    Besides, last game they got 48 points in the paint.

    I think that is an old knicks charge. Doesn’t pertain to this year.

  61. oconnopjNYK

    Its amazing how right after the half the Knicks come out so much more focused on the defensive end. They really start to double more, really commit to their adjustments the 3rd quarter is where they usually make their move.

  62. Frank O.

    oconnopjNYK: Its amazing how right after the half the Knicks come out so much more focused on the defensive end. They really start to double more, really commit to their adjustments the 3rd quarter is where they usually make their move.  

    I think this is all about D’Antoni’s adjustments.
    They have been masterful this year.

  63. Frank O.

    Spree8nyk8: If the Knicks were a boxer you’d have to say that now they have a good chin and a stiff jab  

    Sugar Ray Leonard with a knock out punch, and when they shuffle their feet they get a traveling call…:)

  64. ltmurray

    Interning at CBS Boston logging the Celts/Nuggets game (a thankless task)…Sports guys here are saying Melo might not be injured at all, and that the Nuggets are trading him. “That brother’s not hurt. That brother’s gettin’ moved” is what the Sports anchor keeps saying.

    ^But that’s just what I’m hearing. I assume no responsibility for any of that potential BS.

  65. oconnopjNYK

    ltmurray: Interning at CBS Boston logging the Celts/Nuggets game (a thankless task)…Sports guys here are saying Melo might not be injured at all, and that the Nuggets are trading him. “That brother’s not hurt. That brother’s gettin’ moved” is what the Sports anchor keeps saying.^But that’s just what I’m hearing. I assume no responsibility for any of that potential BS.  

    He’s definitely not creditable if he’s calling Melo “Brother”

  66. Spree8nyk8

    Raptors are refusing to allow Amar’e to beat them, gonna need to start punishing them with those open looks.

  67. d-mar

    As good a game as Felton is having, he’s had some horrible turnovers. And when did the refs decide to call Will for travelling? He does it at least two or three times every game!

  68. hoolahoop

    Frank O.:
    Dude have you been watching Felton these past 10 games? He’s been scoring and setting up his teammates.
    here are his last 10 games:
    18 pts, 11 assists
    18 and 8
    17 and 13
    21 and 10
    23 and 11
    18 and 4
    23 and 13
    16 and 9
    20 and 7
    35 and 11
    I mean, sometimes these in game assumptions are a bit unfair  

    Yes, that’s why they’ve been winning.

  69. BigBlueAL

    Ive just gotten home a few minutes ago but it seems to me that the Knicks have missed a ton of wide open 3′s tonight huh.

  70. Robert Silverman

    BigBlueAL: Ive just gotten home a few minutes ago but it seems to me that the Knicks have missed a ton of wide open 3?s tonight huh.  

    They’ve rimmed out too. Extra frustrating…

  71. Spree8nyk8

    christ the knicks are never ever going to get any help in the standings, Chicago losing the entire game in cleveland ties it at 80 and wins 88-83, boston wins again, miami off to a good start in Utah

  72. Frank O.

    Man. interesting news tho about Carmello.
    I wonder if they are holding him out because of a possible trade…

  73. Droidz1979

    Am late for work because of this Knick game… better be worth it with a Knick win. Besides, the Raps are 2-8 on the road although our beloved Knicks hasn’t been stellar at home too at 4-5

  74. oconnopjNYK

    Knicks should be winning this by 15. Is it just me or does anyone else think they are getting too confident with all the buzz they have gotten lately? I really do not care if this is a team that the they played a game ago. Their talent is less than the Knicks and if anyone watched the MSG pregame Mike preached that a win against these guys is the same as a win against Boston or Miami next week. I just Felton and Amare and these guys aren’t looking ahead. They need to lock up this win. 6 wins in a row will make people notice more, I don’t care if it’s against sub par teams. Confidence is growing in the Garden.

  75. Robert Silverman

    Frank O.: Gotta admire Bargnani’s game.  

    I’d rather admire it from a distance — say when Toronto’s at San Antonio or LA

  76. Mulligan

    Frank O.: Stat!
    6 more an he gets 30  

    I know it’s kind of trivial (relative to the win), but I was hoping he’d get 30 again tonight too. Honestly not surprised that he’s managed to turn it back on after starting 1-7. Dude’s so good..

  77. Droidz1979

    What happened to Shawne Williams? His shooting would have helped on this game.. Raps seems to be hell bent on stopping Amare alone

  78. Nick C.

    Stat starting to do his thing. Up 5. They might win this despite all the bad luck. Like that and 1 by Bargnani.

  79. david

    Kleiza is terrible on defense — he was camped out in the lane, not following Gallo (who was wide open for three) and still didn’t put a hand on amare, who just dunked on him. Wow

  80. Frank O.

    Felton could have gotten a better shot there…
    He’s got 25 and 11, by 4 TOs. He’s plus 4 on the night.

    But he was 8-11 at the half and now 9-19. He’s gone a bit cold, and has offset by getting 7 assists this half.

  81. oconnopjNYK

    Mike is going to leave Amare in cause he trusts him from their time in Phoenix. Plus he is Freakin Amare. How awful would it be if he picked up his 6th on the offensive end? I could see some crazy Gallo bail out 3 happening at the end of shot clock right here next possession. Think last game, and basically a bunch of games. Shawne Williams needs to be in for length and shooting.

  82. BigBlueAL

    Yeah I missed the entire 1st half so all Ive seen of Felton is basically the 4th quarter so for me he has been horrible tonight lol.

  83. Spree8nyk8

    Mulligan: i just scared my wife… i guess it’s weird to laugh and clap by yourself?  

    Trust me dude, you didn’t do that by yourself, I assure you

  84. ess-dog

    Great win but did it have to be that close against the cRaptors?
    I guess I’m becoming spoiled thinking we should not only win, but win big…

  85. rohank

    Shawne Williams a non-factor tonight (-10).

    Amare with 7 O-rebounds.

    Gallo with 9 rebounds, all defensive…

    Knicks only 15 TOs as a team.

    Bring on the rest of the league!

  86. Frank O.

    Big shit-eatin’ grin on my face.

    I can’t remember the last time I was this into the Knicks.
    So much fun, and such a young team. Infectious!

  87. d-mar

    In the old days, someone on the other team would have hit that shot Ray did, and we would all be crying about our bad luck.

    I’ve run out of things to say about Stat, the man just delivers in crunch time game after game after game. Even on an off night overall.

  88. Frank O.

    ess-dog: Great win but did it have to be that close against the cRaptors?
    I guess I’m becoming spoiled thinking we should not only win, but win big…  

    they’ve played three games. Do you know how hard it is to beat the same team three times in such a short period. If there is a team that knows and understands the Knicks attack, it’s the Raps, and yet, they still couldn’t win.
    Great victory.

  89. bob cook

    It might not be impressive to barely beat the Raptors at home. It is, however, impressive to win a back to back. 10 years of misery is coming to an end. That’s alot in dog years.

  90. Doug

    ess-dog: Great win but did it have to be that close against the cRaptors?
    I guess I’m becoming spoiled thinking we should not only win, but win big…  

    Like Frank said, this was Toronto’s third look at us in a very short time frame. Bargnani was shooting the lights out and they had their transition offense clicking.

  91. Frank O.

    Felton 43 mins, +5
    Stat 42 mins, +6
    WC 39 mins, +1
    Gallo 37, +14!
    Fields 32, +9

    Lot of good minutes from the starters.

    STAT 34 and 15 boards and 2 blocks.

  92. taggart4800

    Watched the entire game feeling really good that we were playing horrible and still hanging around. Sure enough the 4th roles around and we play like a confident winning team. Great game and great atmosphere.

  93. Nick C.

    Wow!! Kudos to DW. Felton eliminates a double digit deficit in no time in the 2nd and then Amare is insane in the 4th including quite a few PnR with Felton.

  94. Bruno Almeida

    Doug:
    Like Frank said, this was Toronto’s third look at us in a very short time frame. Bargnani was shooting the lights out and they had their transition offense clicking.  

    yeah, that speaks to the resilience of this team, we have now won the season series against a team that just might be there in contention for the last playoff spots, given how strange the east has been this year.

  95. BigBlueAL

    Howard Beck just tweeted:

    “Funny thing is, there were people this summer who actually questioned whether Stoudemire was an upgrade over DLee. Or worth $20 mil more.”

  96. Frank O.

    Z-man: Yeah, but imagine if we had David Lee instead of Amar’e, we’d probably be undefeated…  

    You’re a bad man. :)

  97. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL: Howard Beck just tweeted:“Funny thing is, there were people this summer who actually questioned whether Stoudemire was an upgrade over DLee. Or worth $20 mil more.”  

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  98. Abasi

    to those missing Ted Nelson’s ‘expert analysis’:

    On Amare vs David Lee:
    “I think most people (including myself… maybe in part because he’s who we got) will take Amare, but the point is just that it’s not as obvious as the average fan and media member might make it out to be. The $ might actually tip the scales in Lee’s direction. ”

    http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-2011-season-preview-conclusion/ (Post #18)

    You don’t need stats or deep analysis to know Amare has always been a far, far, far better player than David Lee will ever be. You just need to watch a few games to know that there is a huge gap – amare is, and has always been, a franchise player. lee is a very good role player. Franchise players carry teams on their shoulders; very good role players can’t do that.

    Wow! The Knicks are on fire. Yes, it was not a high-quality game, but the excitement was out of this world!!!!

  99. Thomas B.

    BigBlueAL: Howard Beck just tweeted:“Funny thing is, there were people this summer who actually questioned whether Stoudemire was an upgrade over DLee. Or worth $20 mil more.”  

    Some of those people post here, or they used to.

  100. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.: Big shit-eatin’ grin on my face.I can’t remember the last time I was this into the Knicks.
    So much fun, and such a young team. Infectious!  

    My dad asked me on sunday if I was watching some random NFL game that something crazy had just happened in and my response was “eff the NFL, the Knicks are good again!”

  101. Mulligan

    Yeah, I would definitely own up to being ambivalent at best about Stat… I feel like he’s really come into his own now that he’s had a chance to be the leader of a team

  102. Robert Silverman

    Thomas B.:
    Some of those people post here, or they used to.  

    I’ll freely admit that I was one of ‘em. I’m happy as heck to admit that I was wrong.

  103. Abasi

    Robert Silverman: I’ll freely admit that I was one of ‘em. I’m happy as heck to admit that I was wrong.  (Quote)

    Nice move there, Robert – we have all been wrong at one time or another, except for Ted, of course ;-)

  104. bockadoo

    I’m ashamed to admit I’m thinking “If we lose 5 straight we’re still at .500″. Someone help me.

  105. BigBlueAL

    I think its safe to say even us people who thought Amar’e was an upgrade over Lee never expected him to be this good this early in the season. Also it has to be said the same goes for Felton obviously.

  106. Spree8nyk8

    rohank: Shawne Williams a non-factor tonight (-10).Amare with 7 O-rebounds.Gallo with 9 rebounds, all defensive…Knicks only 15 TOs as a team.Bring on the rest of the league!  

    You know what, it’s really not that big a deal really. One of the great things about this team is that seemingly everynight we get surprise points from someone. Gallo is a little off, TDDWTDD steps in, he’s off williams is there, Williams is off Chandler gets a little extra, Fields has a bad game, well…Fields never really has a bad game…

  107. BigBlueAL

    WOW Bogut just won the game for the Bucks with a Lee-type tip-in alleyoop at the buzzer. Although the Bucks had .5 left.

  108. Robert Silverman

    Abasi:
    Nice move there, Robert – we have all been wrong at one time or another, except for Ted, of course ;-)  

    I will however, demand some props for being really excited about the Felton signing since the summer. Perhaps some of the, “We shoulda signed Ridnour/he’s barely an upgrade over Duhon” folks should come out of the woodwork, too :)

  109. Doug

    I admit I thought DLee was the better value. I was ignorant to Amare’s midrange game, his shotblocking, and his BEAST MODE mindset in the 4th quarter.

  110. DRed

    I’m stuck at work tonight, and missed the game. Can someone explain to me how Bargnani scored 41 points? Was Landry playing center tonight?

  111. Doug

    DRed: I’m stuck at work tonight, and missed the game.Can someone explain to me how Bargnani scored 41 points?Was Landry playing center tonight?  

    He just had the TOUCH tonight, you know? Also, Chandler was guarding him for long stretches and he’d just shoot over him.

    In the 4th Amare was guarding him but then got into foul trouble.

  112. rama

    We have waited so long, so loonnnngggg, o lord….

    There are times I feel slightly embarrassed to be such a passionate fan of a sports team.

    This is not one of them.

  113. BigBlueAL

    DRed: I’m stuck at work tonight, and missed the game.Can someone explain to me how Bargnani scored 41 points?Was Landry playing center tonight?  

    I only saw the game from mid-3rd quarter til the end and the points he scored during that time to be honest there were some jumpers he made in people’s faces that I couldnt believed went in, plus he drove once, fumbled the ball, got it back and threw up some crazy little hook shot.

    I assume his points early on were probably a bunch of easy shots since thats how the Knicks usually play D in the 1st half but in the 2nd half many of his shots were tough jumpers/fadeaways that you have to give him credit for making.

  114. Frank O.

    Come on, dudes.
    I kind of feel like it’s cheap to be taking shots at Ted.
    He’s gone silent. I kind of regret that he did, and I have had some epic arguments with him over the years.
    I can’t tell anyone how to act, but maybe there isn’t a need for the mocking negativity, IMHO.

    There is not a person on this board that predicted that STAT and Felton would be this good, period.
    Never mind this soon. No one could have foreseen this kind of output.
    Felton’s numbers are off the charts and STAT has been getting more than 30 a night for five straight games, and still getting key blocks.
    I-told-you-sos seem a bit over the top.

    We can enjoy the win without bitch-slapping someone, IMHO.

  115. Robert Silverman

    Frank O.: Come on, dudes.
    I kind of feel like it’s cheap to be taking shots at Ted.
    He’s gone silent. I kind of regret that he did, and I have had some epic arguments with him over the years.
    I can’t tell anyone how to act, but maybe there isn’t a need for the mocking negativity, IMHO.There is not a person on this board that predicted that STAT and Felton would be this good, period.
    Never mind this soon. No one could have foreseen this kind of output.
    Felton’s numbers are off the charts and STAT has been getting more than 30 a night for five straight games, and still getting key blocks.
    I-told-you-sos seem a bit over the top.We can enjoy the win without bitch-slapping someone, IMHO.  

    Ditto

  116. rama

    I think the only signing we need to make next year is Tyson Chandler for the max for three years. Forget Melo; STAT is The Man, and Gallo and Chandler are improving yearly…not to mention they’re much cheaper. And Felton is better than anyone hoped, including me – and I got in an epic battle defending him even BEFORE we signed him. (That’s when Ted called me an asshole.)

    Yeah, I’m excited about a win streak over sub-par competition – but really, the inside presence, the outside shooting, the teamwork, the depth, the heart…is there any other piece we need to get to the Finals?

  117. rama

    And that last comment wasn’t a cheap shot – Ted called me an asshole for not backing off my position that Felton could be great in D’Antoni’s fast-paced game. Despite that, I miss his contrarian position, and do wish he’d post again.

    Right now, he’d be saying that Felton is bound to come back to earth. And teams will adjust to us, clogging the lane so Amare can’t dominate. And we’d argue that we have the outside shooters to prevent that….something like that.

  118. Frank O.

    What’s most interesting about STAT is there is room for improvement.
    His TS% and eFG% is off his career numbers right now.
    TS% is .594 compared to .605 career.
    eFG% is .536 compared to .544 career.

    I read that as he could actually get better, but I’m not a gifted advanced stats guy. Like to know what Mike has to say about that.
    His PER, however, is higher than his career, 23.3 v. 22.6.

  119. Frank O.

    rama: I think the only signing we need to make next year is Tyson Chandler for the max for three years.Forget Melo; STAT is The Man, and Gallo and Chandler are improving yearly…not to mention they’re much cheaper.And Felton is better than anyone hoped, including me – and I got in an epic battle defending him even BEFORE we signed him. (That’s when Ted called me an asshole.)Yeah, I’m excited about a win streak over sub-par competition – but really, the inside presence, the outside shooting, the teamwork, the depth, the heart…is there any other piece we need to get to the Finals?  

    Whoa there, buckaroo. Finals?
    I love this team, but I think you just slid into cuckoo land. :)
    Too, too soon for that. A lot of ball to play.

  120. BigBlueAL

    Frank O.: What’s most interesting about STAT is there is room for improvement.
    His TS% and eFG% is off his career numbers right now.
    TS% is .594 compared to .605 career.
    eFG% is .536 compared to .544 career.I read that as he could actually get better, but I’m not a gifted advanced stats guy. Like to know what Mike has to say about that.
    His PER, however, is higher than his career, 23.3 v. 22.6.  

    The fact that his efficiency can actually get better is proof of how good a player he has been throughout his career in that regard. I believe his PER is higher due to his career-high Usage and I believe his reb and block rates are slightly above his career numbers too.

  121. Frank O.

    rama: And that last comment wasn’t a cheap shot – Ted called me an asshole for not backing off my position that Felton could be great in D’Antoni’s fast-paced game.Despite that, I miss his contrarian position, and do wish he’d post again.
    Right now, he’d be saying that Felton is bound to come back to earth.And teams will adjust to us, clogging the lane so Amare can’t dominate.And we’d argue that we have the outside shooters to prevent that….something like that.  

    Maybe there is a need for a support group to help some folks get over getting Ted Nelsoned. :)

  122. Doug

    rama: I think the only signing we need to make next year is Tyson Chandler for the max for three years.Forget Melo; STAT is The Man, and Gallo and Chandler are improving yearly…not to mention they’re much cheaper.And Felton is better than anyone hoped, including me – and I got in an epic battle defending him even BEFORE we signed him. (That’s when Ted called me an asshole.)Finals?  

    I don’t know if I trust Chandler to sustain his contract year performance. I really do not like that idea.

  123. BigBlueAL

    Yeah Im not worrying about the Finals. Hell Im still hoping all the teams below them lose to ensure a playoff spot. Im not worrying about seeding right now still just want to be sure a playoff post is totally secured before worrying about playoff seeding. lol

  124. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL:
    The fact that his efficiency can actually get better is proof of how good a player he has been throughout his career in that regard.I believe his PER is higher due to his career-high Usage and I believe his reb and block rates are slightly above his career numbers too.  

    Mike could easily get a whole column out of looking at Stat v. his career numbers. He’s really been unbelievable.

  125. Spree8nyk8

    Sitting here watching the Heat game and reading the DDL chat, and these “experts” choosing mvp candidates really piss me off. How can you pick 4 people right now and none of them are Amar’e? It makes no sense.

  126. Z-man

    Robert Silverman:
    Ditto  

    Respectfully, I don’t think that pointing out someone’s opinion that has turned out to be clearly wrong is “cheap,” especially someone who had no problem calling people “ignorant,” “asshole” and “dick” on a pretty regular basis for having committed the high crime of disagreeing with his analysis.

  127. BigBlueAL

    It looks like the Heat have figured things out. Perfect timing for their trip to MSG next Friday. Shit. lol

  128. Spree8nyk8

    BigBlueAL: It looks like the Heat have figured things out.Perfect timing for their trip to MSG next Friday.Shit.lol  

    Good, I hope they have figured it out. No excuses. I’m fine with it if they really are just better than us, but the last thing I want is for us to win and there to be more “excuses” for how it happened. I want the Knicks to kill that team and gain respect. Right now every game they win garners absolutely no respect and I’m sick of it. None of those other teams would have done any better with our schedule….NONE. Bring these guys on. We are going to match up with those guys way better than people think. Run them to death and let the Heat suck wind hardcore in the fourth while Amar’e and crew start smacking them around.

    This team does not get rattled by anything hardly anymore. I believe now! Hopefully after next week you will too. But I don’t need to see the wounds personally.

  129. Brian Cronin

    Sounds like you guys could use a thread on Ted Nelson. After that maybe we can focus on the Knicks.

    Seriously.

  130. Brian Cronin

    Great win. It is pretty funny, though, how the teams ahead of the Knicks also keep on winning. Ah well, at least it also puts distance between the Knicks and the teams below them.

  131. Spree8nyk8

    Brian Cronin: Great win. It is pretty funny, though, how the teams ahead of the Knicks also keep on winning. Ah well, at least it also puts distance between the Knicks and the teams below them.  

    yeah bums me out after going 11/12 not to even pick up 1 game on Boston, but we did pick up 5 games on the #8 and we are right there with the #3. God I can’t wait for next week. I don’t care if they have a hard time honestly, I just wanna know.

  132. d-mar

    Can you imagine if one of us posted back when they were 3-8: “Hey guys, it’s looking pretty grim, but I really think we can turn it around. In fact, I think by December 9th we could be 14-9.” What an amazing run, I don’t give a crap who we’ve played.

  133. rama

    BigBlueAL: Yeah Im not worrying about the Finals. Hell Im still hoping all the teams below them lose to ensure a playoff spot. Im not worrying about seeding right now still just want to be sure a playoff post is totally secured before worrying about playoff seeding. lol  (Quote)

    I said NEXT YEAR. Not “cuckoo-land,” Frank O. Read a little more closely. Not to mention, how would we sign Tyson Chandler during a season. Man.

    Doug, go check out Tyson’s per 36 numbers:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

    He’s been a remarkably consistent player except when he was injured…which was the last two years. He’s only 28. I don’t think it’s about a contract year; I think he’s just healthy again. His numbers are actually DOWN a little from his best years.

    Point being, the one position we lack a better-than-average starter is the 5. Instead of signing Melo, who will add little over the players he’ll replace, sign a great player to hold down the one position where we basically suck. He’s only Amare’s age, and if we keep our depth, we should be able to limit their minutes to 30pg..meaning they could play together for several years while still at their best. Then in 2012, either keep Felton (if he continues his great play) or sign Deron or CP3 (if his knees still exist).

    Yeah, I think that team could go to the Finals. No cuckoo-land idea.

  134. rama

    Brian Cronin: Great win. It is pretty funny, though, how the teams ahead of the Knicks also keep on winning. Ah well, at least it also puts distance between the Knicks and the teams below them.  (Quote)

    Well, you know how the Nets are “much better” than the Knicks and have the quality players to get Melo that the Knicks lack…

    Thank god.

  135. Spree8nyk8

    I think the dismissal of optimism needs to be removed from this board. It’s ok to think your expectations are more “realistic”, but to be honest…There isn’t one person on this board that can say for sure they know how good this team is. They may not be as good as you think they are, they might be way better than I think they are. They have played an imbalanced schedule but that can’t be used as a negative against them. Do you know for sure that the Heat are better? No not really, the Heat have played a tougher schedule but they’ve also played more less road games, wayyyy less back to backs among other things. No team in the NBA plays more back to backs than the Knicks do this year (21). I don’t care what team you are, back to backs are tough. It’s the NBA and on any given day one team can be another (clippers beat the spurs). So you can easily get upset by one team and the next day run into another. The Knicks had a very bad skid in the beginning of the season, but with 10 new guys aren’t they supposed to? As far as what people wanna think about how far this team can go, just let them. We can debate it a lot better at the end of the month. As far as debating it right now as far as they can make the finals. Hell right now they are 1 game out of 3rd in the east. 1 game! And that is with a horrendous skid. Let people believe what they want right now because as much as you want to believe you KNOW, you really don’t….

  136. Spree8nyk8

    rama:
    Well, you know how the Nets are “much better” than the Knicks and have the quality players to get Melo that the Knicks lack…Thank god.  

    It WILL NOT HAPPEN. They can talk all they want about the Nets having the assets. If Carmelo wants to go to NJ it would have happened already. This is a ploy to up the Knicks offer which right now is probably not very high, and rightfully so. Melo is forcing his way to the Knicks. Denver has ZERO leverage. NONE. And until a team comes in and says we’ll trade you this and we don’t care if he signs the extension, then it simply doesn’t matter.

  137. Spree8nyk8

    One thing I don’t understand is that everyone so far has said the Knicks don’t have a pick to trade. We do have a 1st rounder for next year though, Houston can only trade picks with us (which isn’t going to happen), but we’d still have a pick either way. Why can’t that pick be traded?

  138. tastycakes

    Good times.

    I hope the team doesn’t reach for Melo. I don’t really want to give up any of these guys right now, though Gallo + Curry for Melo probably wouldn’t break my heart. I am fully on board the Landry Fields love train and don’t want him moved. I’m sure the Knicks could make a move for Melo if they wanted to, but hopefully they will keep a cool hand.

    On Lee vs Stoudemire, yes, it certainly does seem, to the naked eye, that Stoudemire is a much better player — better offensively, better defensively, tougher, more reliable. But you also have to account for the difference in having Felton and Fields over Duhon and Jeffries, and another year of maturation for Chandler and Gallo. I’ve finally come around on Chandler — never liked him as a player until now — and though Gallo takes flack and isn’t quite as dead-eye from beyond the arc as I wish he was, I have been enjoying his game this year.

    Amar’e also just seems to be a leader in a way that Lee never was. He chose to come to NYC and be the man. David chose to go to a bottom-feeder to be the #3 guy.

    It feels really weird to be following a Knick team that is winning.

  139. tastycakes

    Spree8nyk8: One thing I don’t understand is that everyone so far has said the Knicks don’t have a pick to trade.We do have a 1st rounder for next year though, Houston can only trade picks with us (which isn’t going to happen), but we’d still have a pick either way.Why can’t that pick be traded?  

    You can’t trade 1st round picks in consecutive years.

  140. BigBlueAL

    This game Friday at Washington is going to be very interesting. Curious to see how focused the Knicks will be, plus it is the Wizards first game back from their west coast trip which ends tonight.

  141. llcoolbp

    new to this board. Fanatic lifetime Knick fan here. Go back to the the mid 80′s when they drafted Ewing. My favorite Knick of all time is probably John Starks. This Team is flat out fun and refreshing to watch. Amare is a BEAST. We haven’t had a BEAST like him since Spree’s heyday. The way Amare takes it to the rack brings energy to the entire team. You can see the bench and crowd reaction He owns MSG right now. He’s charismatic, 28 years old, coming into his own. Man I hope his knee holds up. I think his confidence is growing. He is enjoying being the “The Man”.
    The knicks can hang with the elite teams if they just play their game. They are becoming thoroughbreds. They can run other teams out of the gym, with their athleticism. I just hope Dantoni rests Amare and Felt a little more. This 40 minutes every game has to end. The have to have there minutes cut back to even 38 or so. Still pumped. Can’t wait for “Friday night Knicks on MSG”.

  142. Spree8nyk8

    He’s only missed 3 games since injuring his Knee (discounting the 20ish games he missed due to an eye injury). His knee is 100%…put it out of your head.

  143. John Kenney

    Was at the game tonight… just incredible. The MVP chants for Amar’e in the 4th were totally earned. Unstoppable down the stretch. So many great dunks AND midrange dunkers.

    There’s something to be said for Amare’s leadership that no one really accounted for before the season. This was, by all accounts, a bad game for him through 3 quarters. Something just seemed off. But a tie game in the fourth and he scores every possession. Just incredible. 18pt 4th quarter. That’s what franchise players do.

    Felton- yes, he played poorly in the fourth before the monster bouncing 3. However, he was the only player who kept us in the game when we were down between 10 and 13 points for a while in the second quarter. Mentally, that’s huge. If we go down by 20, much harder to overcome.

    I gotta agree that we have to cut back on amare and felton’s minutes… it just seems risky. But I understand why they’re doing it. This is a game that you don’t want to be looking back on in April mad that you dropped.

    Personally, i don’t think we need to reach for melo. let’s keep this rolling.

  144. Spree8nyk8

    I love this team, 100% no doubt about it and if this is the team that we are sticking with for the duration I’m fine with that too. That being said, if people do not think this team is a championship contender then why would you be against acquiring Melo? Unless of course the cost is unreasonable. I fully believe that the Knicks are in the driver seat (or passenger seat with Melo driving) in these negotiations. Denver can bluff all they want about who they MIGHT trade him to, but until they have a team stand up and say we’ll give you this trade whether he signs or not, then I just don’t see how it matters. I don’t see any team giving up any decent proposal without him signing, and all signs seem to point to him being hell bent on coming to NY. Why would you NOT want that? A STAR player who WANTS BADLY to come. Offer them Gallo and Curry and Randolph and say that’s the only offer, and if you don’t like the offer than call us back when you do. They aren’t going to be able to move him. I believe that fully.

    And this is coming from someone that loves Gallo fully. I do not mind one bit if Melo goes elsewhere and we keep Gallo. If we do then it’s fine, but if that trade gets it done then pls do it.

    I really don’t see denver having much choice.

  145. llcoolbp

    One more thing Felt, looks a little chubby, slow, and is not the flyest guy on the planet, which means he is the PERFECT knick. You got to love a guy who plays at his level but looks like one of the dudes in my YMCA rec league. He reminds of that loud emotional guy who could be your uncle, breathing down your neck on D, draining big shots and letting you know about it on the other end. How can you not love this guy?

    Oh and spree, I hope you are right about the knee. I have had 2 ACL repairs on the same knee (not Microfracture like STAT), but knee’s always come back to haunt you. I wish STAT would at least wear some Knee Pads like my boy FELT. Then again the knee pads look just right on felt. It jives with the entire rec league vibe he has going.

  146. John Kenney

    I’m fine with the trade you mention as well. I just hope DW keeps Chandler and Fields as absolute untouchables. A Felton Fields Chandler Melo and Amare lineup just sounds awesome. Overall, i dont think getting him this season makes us championship contenders right away, so I’d prefer to sign him in free agency if possible.

  147. oconnopjNYK

    Bruce Bowen just had a great analysis of how Amare has expanded his game as Knick. He is making his teammates better. All he did as Phoenix Sun was look to Score. Not even Rebound, or Block Shots. He is looking for the open man, tonight he found Wilson Chandler for the open 3 in the first quarter I remember for a 3 and I believe. His Assists are up are up to 2.3 a game this year from 1.4 for his career, and his Blocks are up to 1.9 per game from 1.4. This is a HUGE difference. But we have seen a huge correlation withe all the Knicks as they are the #1 team in the league. Expect more MVP Chants when he is at that Free throw Line. GO STAT!!!!!

  148. Spree8nyk8

    llcoolbp:Oh and spree, I hope you are right about the knee. I have had 2 ACL repairs on the same knee (not Microfracture like STAT), but knee’s always come back to haunt you.  

    The injury was 5 years ago, and in 5 years since he’s missed 3 games (other than the games he missed with the eye injury). I don’t even know if those 3 games were even related to the knee. For all I know he had a migraine. But anyone that misses 3 games in 5 years is a horse in my book.

  149. John Kenney

    Spree8nyk8: 15

    I notice a little pessimism from early in the game? haha. Truth be told, you can’t expect an 18pt fourth… unless its amaremvpstoudemire

  150. rama

    Spree –

    You’re a big booster of Melo (at the right price). I get that. But…why? He has a reputation as a frachise player, but he’s not even the best player on his own team! Or possibly even second best, according to WP48. Definitely not second best when Camby was there, in any metric.

    Point being: Melo is way, way, way overrated. He’s a ballstopper. He doesn’t have the leadership intangibles Amare has. He doesn’t have a killer long range shot. He is nothing special on D, an average rebounder, average in almost every way…except that HE SHOOTS A LOT. All the advanced stats – every single one – say that he is slightly above average. That’s it. Not a star, except in the public perception. He is not worth trading any piece for.

    More importantly, he will be paid the max by someone. If that someone is us, it precludes us from making the moves we really need to make. We don’t need a slightly above average wing; we’ve got Chandler and Gallo, who are MUCH cheaper. We need a dominant 5. We need a backup 1. Those are the needs of this team…not an overrated, max contract ballstopper!

    The numbers support this point of view — but a naked eye, common sense perspective fits this point of view as well. You say we need another “go-to-guy,” but all Melo would do is clog the lane for Amare. If anything, we need another dead-eye outside shooter: it’s all about spacing. “Go ahead, clog the lane: I’m just going to pass it to Shawne Williams, who’s made 7 of 8 from 3-land.” That’s why we’ve been winning – and we’d have a HARDER time with Melo, not easier.

  151. oconnopjNYK

    We need a strong defensive center who cant rebound and block shots, someone like Noah, or the Brazilian Nene that Denver has besides Melo. Amare right now looks like he can support the entire offense, especially with Felton playing the way he is 18 ppg 9apg. If Felton drops off this is a whole new ball game. Of course the rest of December will be a huge barometer of how good these Knicks actually are.

  152. oconnopjNYK

    can rebound and block more* giving up too many points. think of the playoffs when it matters and the game will slow down.

  153. Spree8nyk8

    rama: Spree –
    You’re a big booster of Melo (at the right price).I get that.But…why?He has a reputation as a frachise player, but he’s not even the best player on his own team!Or possibly even second best, according to WP48.Definitely not second best when Camby was there, in any metric.Point being: Melo is way, way, way overrated.He’s a ballstopper. He doesn’t have the leadership intangibles Amare has.He doesn’t have a killer long range shot.He is nothing special on D, an average rebounder, average in almost every way…except that HE SHOOTS A LOT  

    You wanna know something funny, Everyone on this forum said the same thing about Stoudemire. THE EXACT SAME SHIT. Keep Lee, he’s cheaper, and just as good/efficient and a better rebounder, blah blah blah. Look at the difference? You think that a guy that is a top ten scorer in the league cant’ make a difference on this team? You don’t think he can make things easier? Dude he’s not going to come into this team gunslinging. He will play more efficiently. Everyone said that stat was going to be an overpaid version of David Lee that just dunked more. How has that turned out? We have a much better supporting cast for Melo here. He will flourish in this system. And it’s not like we are losing anything defensively.

    Like I said man, I’m perfectly fine with it if we keep the team as is. But I think if we get him for Gallo and Curry’s expiring we MUST do that. If Amar’e isn’t proof positive on the difference between having a star and having “an efficient” guy then I just don’t know what to say. I mean if you think this team is a championship contender than by all means leave it alone, but if you think we are a piece or two away, I just don’t understand how that guy isn’t a quality piece. When it comes to some players I think the numbers are not as true as with others.

  154. Spree8nyk8

    oconnopjNYK: We need a strong defensive center who cant rebound and block shots, someone like the Brazilian Nene   

    Well considering that we were the ones that drafted Nene that seems kinda funny.

  155. Brian Cronin

    You wanna know something funny, Everyone on this forum said the same thing about Stoudemire. THE EXACT SAME SHIT.

    rama’s point is that adding a similar player to Amar’e (just not as good) who would take up all the Knicks’ remaining cap room is a waste of resources when you already have a similar player in Amar’e. So how in the world could that be the same thing as the discussion about bringing in Amar’e when the concern specifically is duplicating Amar’e's skills? It is not at all the same situation since his entire point is predicated on the presence of a player like Amar’e already being on the Knicks, which clearly wasn’t the case when Amar’e signed with the Knicks.

  156. Z

    John Kenney: Felton- yes, he played poorly in the fourth before the monster bouncing 3…   

    Felton had 7 assists in the 4th quarter. He missed a few shots, but he was still controlling the game. Thought he was great.

  157. Brian Cronin

    The Marbury comparison is an apt one for Felton. He basically is playing a similar game to Marbury during his early years with the Knicks. That’s not a bad thing, really, as Marbury had some All Star worthy years in the beginning with the Knicks (even Win Shares liked Marbury in 2004-05, and Marbury is a prototypical “Win Shares shows you how overrated he is” type of player).

  158. Spree8nyk8

    Brian Cronin:
    rama’s point is that adding a similar player to Amar’e (just not as good) who would take up all the Knicks’ remaining cap room is a waste of resources when you already have a similar player in Amar’e. So how in the world could that be the same thing as the discussion about bringing in Amar’e when the concern specifically is duplicating Amar’e’s skills? It is not at all the same situation since his entire point is predicated on the presence of a player like Amar’e already being on the Knicks, which clearly wasn’t the case when Amar’e signed with the Knicks.  

    How is Amar’e the same type of player Melo is? I don’t see them as duplicates of each other.

    I guess this means we are a 5 away from the NBA title then? I mean if that is the only spot we need to fill to be a contender, which is apparently what you are saying. My whole point is that you guys talk about adding a banger, we can get a banger with the MLE, or by trading some other assetts (walker/randolph etc). We can’t get another elite scorer.

    I wish I had the link that was posted in the offseason that compared Melo vs Lebron/Martin and some other “efficient” scorers, it was an eye opener. Adding another elite scorer does more than just add scoring, he’s a player that demands a double team. For most of todays game Toronto forced the ball away from Amar’e. Teams are going to start doing that. Having a Melo would be quite useful then, but hey if you wanna use some abstract hollinger math to say that he’s not good (despite scoring 23ppg for a team he doesn’t want to play for) then I can’t change your minds. All I’m saying is that you all said the same thing about letting lee go and getting Amare and I thought that argument was ridiculous also.

  159. Ben R

    I am really really impressed with this game. We played kinda poorly, missed a ton of open three’s and our opponents star had a career game and we still held on and won. We are going to win the games when we are hot and the passes are crisp, we are going to win the games when the other team’s flat and playing poorly but to win a game despite playing kinda badly and facing a hot team is the thing that good teams do.

    I do not agree with the sentiment that we have to slow down in the playoffs, the suns couldn’t win because they matched up poorly and were just plain less talented than the Spurs. Those were champoinship teams they were losing to.

    This is our style and it works well, I think Amare at the five seems to be a good fit. Adding a Tyson Chandler or any other 5 to the starting line-up would make the pick and roll harder. It is not a coincidence that our pnr game opened up when Amare slid to the 5. I am not saying having a true 5 starting would necessarily be bad but it’s not worth handing out a huge contract, and allowing Wilson Chandler to leave (letting him walk the only way we have max room in the offseason), just to find out.

    Honestly we only need a really good backup center and between Turiaf, Mozgov and Randolph I think we have one, maybe two, long term. That leaves backup PG, which the team is clearly lacking, but I’m really not ready to give up on Douglas yet. We are not a championship contender this year, so it is a good time to let players grow and let us evaluate. Next summer we should know alot better if we need a backup 1 and better options at the 5. My guess is we won’t.

  160. Brian Cronin

    How is Amar’e the same type of player Melo is? I don’t see them as duplicates of each other.

    The only significant skill Melo has is taking a lot of shots. The Knicks already have a player who they want to take most of their shots (who is significantly better than Melo). If Melo is not taking a lot of shots, he doesn’t do much else. So for the benefit of gaining a good scorer who won’t be taking a lot of shots, you’re going to use up all your future cap room plus losing at least one useful (and much cheaper) player, whether it be Gallo (who currently has a better WS/48 than Carmelo’s best ever WS/48) or Chandler (whose WS/48 this season is currently higher than Melo’s). That might not be a particularly prudent use of resources.

  161. John Kenney

    Z- Felton did play well assist wise. However, how many of those assists were simply passes to Amar’e which he converted while in beast mode? To my eyes, the Knicks didn’t run much p’n'r in the quarter… just the one they included on the highlight reel. Don’t get me wrong- Felton was huge for us in the 2nd and obviously has the cojones to get that 3 pointer. He’s leaps and bounds better than duhon (which some people on this board doubted.) The contract we signed him to is incredible.

    I’m not criticizing the way he was playing either; he was getting the same drives which he’s been converting all season and unfortunately missed a number in a row. However, when the game is so close, I do think that this reflects some quality which one would describe as poor play, just in that a couple of the shots off drives seemed uncharacteristically off for him (not even drawing iron after hitting the backboard.) Truth be told, I think this was because of the insane number of minutes he’s been playing. Don’t blame him at all. I guess what this amounts to is it’d be nice to see TD step up the playmaking so he could get a bit more of a rest and have more explosion on his drives on the fourth quarter on the second night of a back-to-back- hardly a large criticism haha.

  162. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Can’t we just stop arguing about Carmelo Anthony?

    Can’t we just admire his style and athleticism in another jersey, and be thankful that we don’t have to take on another bloated contract for a volume-first scorer who doesn’t play defense?

    Can’t we just understand that scoring efficiency, offensive rebounding, turnover rate, and free throws-per-field goal attempt are the metrics we can rely on, and that they, in sum, demonstrate that he’s not worth a max contract, particularly since this team is most likely one defensive stopper in the paint away from a top-4 seed in the East?

    Think about it. (By the way, I’m calling it right now: we’re going to slide for a while at some point during this season. The margin of victory is improving, and the team is demonstrably better than it was when the season began [thank you D'antoni for telling Amar'e that he's not LeBron], but the pythagorean win total do not project well for the rest of the season…)

  163. Spree8nyk8

    Brian Cronin:
    This year.  

    Exactly, they improved when the team improved. Kinda funny how putting talent next to talent brings out better results. But of course it’s impossible even implausible that the same could happen with Carmelo.

  164. Brian Cronin

    Exactly, they improved when the team improved. Kinda funny how putting talent next to talent brings out better results. But of course it’s impossible even implausible that the same could happen with Carmelo.

    Carmelo’s worst WS/48 came in the Nuggets’ best season during his time in Denver. So there really isn’t any “exactly” to be taken out of Gallo and Chandler playing better this year.

  165. Spree8nyk8

    Ok so you’re saying that right now, gallo and chandler are better players than Carmelo, is this statement correct?

  166. Brian Cronin

    No, Melo is better. He’s just not three times as better, which is how much he will be getting paid next season, while the Knicks can keep both Gallo and Chandler and have a lot of money for other good players (or, if they so choose, conserve their cap space for 2012).

  167. Spree8nyk8

    Well I hope your right, I’ve never really seen a team turn down a star player that did everything possible to try to join a team that could get them. I’ve never seen that work honestly.

    Anything that results in a contender is fine in my book. And i’ve said it time and time again, I’m fine if this is the team they stick with, I just think they are a better team with Melo.

  168. slovene knick

    So is this the first time the Knicks are over 0.6 in the decade?(not counting the 6:3 before the Crawford trade)?

  169. BigBlueAL

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Can’t we just stop arguing about Carmelo Anthony?Can’t we just admire his style and athleticism in another jersey, and be thankful that we don’t have to take on another bloated contract for a volume-first scorer who doesn’t play defense?Can’t we just understand that scoring efficiency, offensive rebounding, turnover rate, and free throws-per-field goal attempt are the metrics we can rely on, and that they, in sum, demonstrate that he’s not worth a max contract, particularly since this team is most likely one defensive stopper in the paint away from a top-4 seed in the East?Think about it. (By the way, I’m calling it right now: we’re going to slide for a while at some point during this season. The margin of victory is improving, and the team is demonstrably better than it was when the season began [thank you D'antoni for telling Amar'e that he's not LeBron], but the pythagorean win total do not project well for the rest of the season…)  

    I think the playoffs have had enough examples the last few years (let alone the last 25 years) that all the pythagorean stuff doesnt really matter much at all come playoff team. Sure in the NBA usually the best team during the regular season wins it all in the end but even that hasnt been happening much lately.

  170. Ben R

    The question is not whether Carmelo is better than Gallo or Chandler, it’s not even aboutthe money, although it is important. It is about role. Getting a “better” player that does not fit well is not the best way to build a team. Right now we have surrounded Amare with complimentary pieces and our offense is better than the sum of it’s parts. Based solely on our offense we are a top four team that is gaining ground on the three teams ahead of us everyday. The last thing we need to do is worry about our offense. Amare does not need Melo opening up things for him, the players we have are opening up things just fine.

    I agree that in a better system where he could share scoring duties Melo would probably improve his efficiency and I have no doubt overall he is a much better offensive player than Gallo, Fields or Chandler. But best case is he fits in plays great and we are still a top 4 offense, worst case he clogs the lane, cannot share scoring duties and we actually get worse. We can only be so good on offense and we are already that good.

    The thing that is seperating us from the elite teams is defense. Melo would not help us defensively. Melo at best would be even with Chandler but I doubt even that.

    We are great offensively. Why add an offensive minded superstar?

  171. Z-man

    Patience, guys. By New Year’s Day we will know a lot more about where we are. In this next stretch, we will be able to see how we measure up against the league’s elite teams, to observe specific matchups, and to get a handle on what we really need. There is definitely an embarrasing blowout on the horizon somewhere, how do we respond? Do we turn the page quickly or go on another 6-game bender? We no longer have the excuse of “we need time to gel.” Until then, I wouldn’t get to antsy to make trades. Let’s see what we really have.

  172. Nick C.

    Geez. Here the team is playign the best it’s played in recent memory and all we can talk about is players on other teams? FTW I get the point about Amare proved a lot of people wrong who felt he was just a scorer and Lee was better value (me included) so why can’t the same apply to Melo. But every game, and between every game its Melo this, Melo that, what about Tyson Chandler. Please give it a rest.

  173. Abasi

    The Knicks urgently need a decent Backup PG and some defensive help on the paint. Those are clearly our most pressing needs. Carmelo Anthony does not fill those gaps – can you imagine the Knicks with Felton going down for three months? Scary, isn’t it? Far scarier than the Knicks not ever signing Carmelo, I’d say :-)

    The need for defensive help will become evident to Spree and other over-excited fans as soon as we meet the better teams. Especially the ones with a big guy to put on Amare. Mark my words.

  174. Frank

    I think we can probably table this Melo vs. “other pieces” discussion for about 6 weeks — after that we’ll have played against some elite teams — teams that are well-coached and can probably take some of the easy STAT looks away, where a real 2nd or 3rd scorer will be the difference between winning and losing. I’m loving the fact that we’ve won 11 out of 12 (did I really just write that?!?!?!?!?! GO NY GO!) but truthfully, we’ve become a top 4 offense playing against some pretty God-awful defenses. If we’re still a top 6 offense after this stretch, then I say we should probably be prepared to scrap the Melo plan. I wrote in a previous post that after the Wizards game, out of the next 19 games, we have 2 games we SHOULD win, 5 games we COULD easily win, and 12 games that we would probably be underdogs– and that I would be ecstatic if we went something like 7-12 to 9-10 in that stretch (coming out of that still better than .500). If we only win 4-5 games I think it’s likely Donnie will try and pick up Melo. If we somehow go 12-7 or better, showing that we might actually be contenders, I can possibly see Donnie going out and trading our expirings for a Varejao or someone like that.

  175. rama

    Nick C.: Geez. Here the team is playign the best it’s played in recent memory and all we can talk about is players on other teams? FTW I get the point about Amare proved a lot of people wrong who felt he was just a scorer and Lee was better value (me included) so why can’t the same apply to Melo. But every game, and between every game its Melo this, Melo that, what about Tyson Chandler. Please give it a rest.  (Quote)

    The reason Melo keeps coming up is that he’s the biggest name on the trading block and various posters here are hugely excited/fearful that we’ll be the ones to get him. Obviously, Spree is in the excited camp, I’m in the fearful camp. But it’s not a rhetorical question either way – the guy is almost certain to be traded. Brian and I and a few others are trying to point out that spending all our money on a guy who only excels in shooting a lot from mid-range is not what we need. I’m guessing that Donnie Walsh doesn’t spend a lot of time – OK, any time whatsoever – checking out Knickerblogger for ideas or comments, but frankly I’m praying that someone with his ear does, because they need to be employing those advanced metrics (as we recently heard) to see that Melo is not the answer. He’s more like The Answer. And that’s not good.

    I’m not eager to trade any of our young, talented team, but certainly not for a guy who’s going to limit our action for years to come.

    Spree, I’m going to try to convince you one more time…but in a separate…

  176. Nick C.

    Rama I hear ya…it seems like without singling anyone out but in general, its Groundhog day every thread. FWIW I’m on the side of no Melo … shocking considering I went to Syracuse and all that comes with that. I think he would improve as a 1A/B option efficiency wise but what he brings we don’t particularly need or at least not as much as a backup PG and a 20-25 minute C. The minutes again last night were not so hot Amare and Felton played 42+ and 43+ (I know now who’s the repetitive broken record). I guess coach meant it when in the pre-game he said to get to 50 wins and be elite every win counts including this one.

  177. rama

    Ben R @ 329: exactly. To be even more clear about it (I hope):

    Spree, would you agree that the best teams have a great balance of skill players? Players who aren’t only complementary, but who each excel in a certain area that is complementary to the best his teammates have to offer? And that teams who have excellent players whose skills overlap (e.g. Miami Heat) struggle more than they “should?” If so, does this look like the model of a great team:

    PG – great distributor
    SG – great outside scorer (shooter)
    SF – great slasher
    PF – great inside scorer (power game)
    C – great defender/rebounder

    That’s a team that does everything well – and each “great” skill complements the other. Which team does that look most like? The Boston Celtics:

    Rondo (great distributor)
    Ray Allen (great shooter)
    Pierce (great slasher)
    KG (great power game)
    Perkins/O’Neal (great defender/large presence in paint)

    There is a reason an old, old team did so well last year: their talents were complementary. Each of those players has obvious weaknesses (Rondo can’t shoot), but their strengths more than offset those weakness because they are in different areas.

    Let’s look at the young, young Knicks:

    Felton (great distributor)
    Fields (great rebounder)
    Gallo (great shooter)
    Amare (great power game)
    Moz/Turiaf (um….)

    Maybe Felton is only a good distributor, but his outside game compensates somewhat. Fields needs an outside game to be more complete, or needs to establish himself as a slasher; it’s odd (though still useful) to have your 2 be your best per/36 rebounder. Gallo needs to be more consistent. Amare is, well, great. And then…whatever the weaknesses of the other players, clearly what we most need is a C who is a great rebounder/defender. MELO IS NOT THAT GUY. Is he better than Wil or Gallo? Sure. But he’s not as good a shooter, he’s not a great slasher, so he’s somewhat redundant…and we most need to spend our available dollars…

  178. Abasi

    well said, Rama.

    Another way to put it (with numbers):

    The Knicks are second in points per game – 108 (behind Phoenix). And number 26 in points alowed per game – 106.3
    Even more telling is that the Knicks are among the NBA’s 3 worst teams (along with Phoenix and Toronto!) in alloed points in the paint, at 47.1 per game.

    That’s called terrible defense, and that’s where help is needed the most. We don’t need a great scorer (which Carmelo admittedly is) nearly as much as we need a great defender down the middle (a big guy).

    As excited and happy as I’m with the knicks victories, I can’t overlook the fact that their good offense and the favorable schedule (against mostly very bad teams who play terrible defense to boot) have somewhat masked the defensive problems our team continues to have (in great part because we just don’t have a good big center). D’Antoni’s “second half defensive adjustments” will not be enough against the better teams.

  179. latke

    Abasi: well said, Rama.Another way to put it (with numbers):The Knicks are second in points per game – 108 (behind Phoenix). And number 26 in points alowed per game – 106.3

    use advanced stats or at least opponent fg% instead of points allowed. The knicks play at a faster pace than nearly all teams. That means more possessions, which means more scores.

  180. hoolahoop

    Melo is a ballstopper that might ruin the chemistry of this team. He’s a prolific scorer that may be a fantastic addition, and makes the knicks an elite team. He’s a gamble. . . one that I wouldn’t make.

    Let’s look for a solid “5″.

  181. Spree8nyk8

    The problem with your argument Rama is that this season the Knicks best lineup has been with Amar’e at the 5, not the 4. The lineups featuring moz/turiaf at the 5 have not been nearly as successful, so while that standard lineup may work best for some teams, it does not work best for this particular team. The floor is much better spaced for Amar’e when he is the 5, when he’s the 4 the offense does not have the same flow.

  182. Spree8nyk8

    Reg (London)

    Given Felton’s play, who should the Knicks target in trades / free agency?
    John Hollinger
    (2:02 PM)

    Well, given that Carmelo Anthony is pretty much hell-bent on going to New York next year, it would be awfully silly for New York to allocate any future cap money that could be used to sign him. Knicks could trade with Nuggets and get him sooner if they can interest Denver in some kind of Gallo/Fields/Douglas platter, but they can afford to be patient too.

  183. hoolahoop

    Spree8nyk8: Reg (London)Given Felton’s play, who should the Knicks target in trades / free agency?
    John Hollinger (2:02 PM)Well, given that Carmelo Anthony is pretty much hell-bent on going to New York next year, it would be awfully silly for New York to allocate any future cap money that could be used to sign him. Knicks could trade with Nuggets and get him sooner if they can interest Denver in some kind of Gallo/Fields/Douglas platter, but they can afford to be patient too.  

    Why should the knicks give up assets (WC/Gallo/Fields) if they can sign him next year as a FA?
    I guess it’s something you have to do, but I don’t get a good feeling about Melo coming here. An athletic 5 would be a better fit. You’re right that the knicks have played well with Amare at the 5, but I think they’ll be more competitive against top tier teams with an athletic enforcer. Have you noticed how wide open the lane is sometimes on defense?

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