Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, December 18, 2014

270 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Nuggets

  1. Bruno Almeida

    yeah, the Garden will probably be buzzing today, it will be interesting to see.

    we can beat this team even if Melo wins, but I’m concerned about how we’ll match up against a veteran, estabilished team.

  2. tastycakes

    rohank: lucky Thirteensies.In which nation is this game on national tv?  

    Lebanon? Looks like NBA-TV has chosen to highlight the scintillating Raptors-Pistons matchup (though that’s not ‘national tv’ either).

    Good old League Pass Broadband for me, hope I get the home announcers for a change!

  3. oconnopjNYK

    I can see this game being ridiculously high scoring. I just hope JR Smith doesn’t go bananas. Amare needs to set the 30 streak. And the roof doesn’t collapse ending our season.

  4. totti

    to be or not to be?

    build à la heat or à la dallas?

    get melo at all costs
    or provide mayo plus a 5?

    not easy
    even for someone like me
    who does not want a gallo trade

  5. d-mar

    Whatever happens in this game, please, for the love of God, do not let Al “I Get Buckets” Harrington go off. That would be really hard to take.

  6. Bruno Almeida

    and Clyde goes crazy with Will the Thrill lol I love that.

    Fields has got to be the guy that exemplifies everything the past Knicks teams didn’t do, we never had a guy like him on those wretched teams.

  7. ltmurray

    GHenman: Why would you let Chandler go?  (Quote)

    Not sure how long he can keep this performance up, but right now he’s got me thinking “who needs melo?” (although Anthony does have 3 reb and 3 assists already)

    Speaking of assists already, how about SIX FOR FELTON in 11 minutes!

  8. NYK Ewing

    i highly question anyone who thinks that giving up chandler for melo is a better idea than gallo than melo (just talking synergy-wise, not thinking about what the nuggets will accept)

  9. ltmurray

    NYK Ewing: i highly question anyone who thinks that giving up chandler for melo is a better idea than gallo than melo (just talking synergy-wise, not thinking about what the nuggets will accept)  (Quote)

    I can’t quite decide on this one…Chandler has definitely been playing better than Gallo on both ends, but I think Gallo and Melo might compliment each other better. Melo draws a double team and gets Gallo some open looks. Chandler and Melo have the tendency to be ball stoppers sometimes. But as far as overall production, Chandler>Gallo.

  10. Nick C.

    Wow everyone is knocking down their shots. Hope this lasts or better yet opens things up for Amare inside for later.

  11. totti

    NYK Ewing: i highly question anyone who thinks that giving up chandler for melo is a better idea than gallo than melo (just talking synergy-wise, not thinking about what the nuggets will accept)  

    Leave them on the knicks
    take a 2 and 5
    be a contender then

  12. ltmurray

    Nick C.: Wow everyone is knocking down their shots. Hope this lasts or better yet opens things up for Amare inside for later.  (Quote)

    Hmm…I thought this post/jinx might have been the cause of the Nuggets recent run. But then I realized it’s because MELO HASNT BEEN ON THE FLOOR.

  13. Robert Silverman

    Early foul trouble and losing leads go hand-in-hand.

    Denver’s making a run w/their “star” on the bench. Yep. We totes gotta trade for him

  14. ltmurray

    Robert Silverman: Early foul trouble and losing leads go hand-in-hand. Denver’s making a run w/their “star” on the bench. Yep. We totes gotta trade for him  (Quote)

    Totes McGotes he’d be a waste of money and Gallos.

  15. Bruno Almeida

    Robert Silverman: Early foul trouble and losing leads go hand-in-hand.
    Denver’s making a run w/their “star” on the bench. Yep. We totes gotta trade for him  

    our star is 1-7 today, does that mean we should get rid of him?

    I say that if the trade happens, I’d rather trade Chandler than Gallo because Chandler expires this year, and will we have money to resign him if we go after Melo and a big?

  16. Abasi

    Seeing Douglas play point guard should make everyone realize how weak the Knicks are at the position. Same for defending the paint. Opponents just drive to the basket and score.

    We need a center and backup PG far more than we need Melo – if we had a decent center, this would be a blow-out instead of a 5 point lead.

  17. Robert Silverman

    “When he’s (Melo’s) out of the game, there’s more ball movement.” — Clyde

    Oh yeah, HAVE to trade for him.

    PS — the internet is dying for a sarcasm font.

  18. Abasi

    Nene averages 15/game, but he has 16 in the first half alone. It seems everyone has a career high against the Knicks.

  19. Bruno Almeida

    Robert Silverman: “When he’s (Melo’s) out of the game, there’s more ball movement.” — ClydeOh yeah, HAVE to trade for him.
    PS — the internet is dying for a sarcasm font.  

    I didn’t see the sarcasm, sorry

    Felton’s confidence is sky high now.

  20. d-mar

    Hey refs, NY is the HOME team! (Although they did give us a huge break by not calling a double tech with Nene. He definitely would have gotten one if he didn’t have one already.)

  21. ltmurray

    Abasi: Nene averages 15/game, but he has 16 in the first half alone. It seems everyone has a career high against the Knicks.  (Quote)

    I was hoping they’d stop getting dominated by slightly above average big men once Turiaf got back in the rotation, but maybe he’s not 100% yet. Or maybe he’s just not the answer down low. I hope it’s not the latter, ’cause Ronny T is the man!

  22. art vandelay

    Key sign will see how the Knicks come out in the 3rd quarter defensively….I have noticed a trend of them basically loafing around defensively at home during the first half and suddenly turning it on in quarter #3, creating steals, turnovers, getting out in transition, etc.

  23. tastycakes

    Nene doing a great job on Amar’e, getting inside his head and frustrating him. Amar’e is very lucky he wasn’t ejected.

    Fraggle Harrington probably at or near the top of my personal list of ‘least favorite Knicks all-time.’ So glad he’s not our guy anymore.

  24. ltmurray

    marxster: Foul trouble going to play a crucial role in the last quarter.  (Quote)

    Prophecy foretold as Amare goes to the bench with 5…now say “Gallo’s 4 three-pointers will seal the deal for NYK!”

  25. jaylamerique

    Mulligan: Man, I’m really happy for Ill-Will. Dude’s really putting it together  

    i think its time Will gets a post talking about his growth as a player.

  26. Robert Silverman

    I think Gallo’s got a touch phobia. Anyone comes near him and his body goes into spasm. I bet when he’s alone he wears rubber gloves and tissue boxes for shoes

  27. KnickInSeattle

    How was that a flagrant on Turiaf when Harrington hammered Douglas in the head and kicked him at the same time a few possessions ago?

  28. Thomas B.

    tastycakes: Where is everybody????Quietest game thread in ages and this game is AMAZING  

    Few of we alcoholic knick fans can sleep it off enough to watch a matinee.

  29. micdan

    what happen with game? why i cant see it anymore? it had to go off when the game was getting interesting

  30. KnickInSeattle

    What a game!
    It’s so great that the Knicks don’t seem to get nervous in these tight situations any more.

  31. Bruno Almeida

    DANILO!

    what a game Felton has had, season high in assists, making the right decisions every time, simply amazing.

  32. KnickInSeattle

    @101…yep that’s how I’m seeing the game.

    Every call after the first one has been a make up call…some nervous refs.

  33. tastycakes

    Knicks on the right side of some bad calls down the stretch. That was no tech on Nene, but hey, guess it all evens out.

    Knicks deserved this one

  34. Bruno Almeida

    we tend to underrate the crowd factor most of the times, but Felton seems to feed so well from having a packed arena, instead of a half-filled arena in Charlotte.

    of course that are many other factors, but he’s so confident right now it shows all the time.

  35. Frank O.

    i like this about the knicks annoucers:they call what they see.
    But I love the pharoah’s toughness

  36. Mulligan

    ltmurray:
    Woah could i Get some detail on that please? All I know is he drew a “flagrant foul type 2 on Nene”  

    Nene smacked Ronny in the face on a box out, Ronny played it up, Technical called on Nene. Felton missed the freethrow tho…

  37. tastycakes

    Mulligan:
    Nene smacked Ronny in the face on a box out, Ronny played it up, Technical called on Nene. Felton missed the freethrow tho…  

    Ball don’t lie!

  38. ess-dog

    Thank you Jeebus.
    I love this team. All we need to add is a 7 foot high-efficiency bruiser and we’re good to go the rest of the year.

  39. micdan

    i dont understand. if nene give a frangant foul 2 to turiaf we shot the free and was suppose to has the ball. so why did denver inbound?

  40. Mulligan

    I love how this game was both really fast and beautiful on the offensive end, but also really scrappy and physical.

  41. Robert Silverman

    micdan: i dont understand. if nene give a frangant foul 2 to turiaf we shot the free and was suppose to has the ball. so why did denver inbound?  

    They changed it to a regular technical foul

  42. ltmurray

    Alright Knicks!! Anyone else like how Gallo took that big charge on Melo to pretty much close it out? Solid 31 for Melo but 0/6 from downtown.

    NYK gave up 125 points and still won. Whatever. Here’s to “finally beating a good team!”

  43. Mulligan

    Whoa. 17 assists for Ray and only 2 TO’s? That’s pretty amazing. Only 6 turnovers as a team, despite the frenetic pace? Yowza.

  44. ess-dog

    ltmurray: Solid 31 for Melo
    ”  

    11-27 is solid? I think he was well defended. He’s become a good rebounder though, I’ll give him that.

  45. cgreene

    can’t believe i missed this one. just got to dallas. sounded like a great one. gonna have wife record the replay so i can watch. sounds like it have caused a serious blood pressure issues.

  46. d-mar

    Felton looks totally confident on those FT’s ( I know he missed the tech) There’s no one I’d rather have on the line in that situation.

    Can I go back a couple of dozen threads ago and revisit the “Chandler should not be shooting 3 pointers” comments? He’s taking them in rhythm at the right time and knocking ‘em down. And it’s not a fluke, he’s been doing it for a while now. Ill Will is just playing phenomenally.

    Oh, and Stat was OK in the 4th quarter (-:

  47. art vandelay

    Being a fan since I was a mere tike (I am 29 now and have been to tons of huge playoff games at msg in the 90s…93 conf finals, 94 conf finals and nba finals, battles vs heat, etc.)…even though I was only watching on TV today, the garden sounded the closest to the old days of the 90s that I have heard it since JVG left….wow! really something to savor…as amare said, I think the knicks really ARE back!

  48. Bruno Almeida

    cgreene: can’t believe i missed this one.just got to dallas.sounded like a great one.gonna have wife record the replay so i can watch.sounds like it have caused a serious blood pressure issues.  

    It was kinda nervous in the end, but the Knicks always seemed in control, Felton was huge down the strech and Will too.

    @149
    yeah, Clyde was talking about that too, the arena seems revitalized, people expect the team to be good and they support them fully after a long, long stretch.

  49. Bruno Almeida

    by the way, what a game for the Knicks.

    52% FG, 43% from 3, and incredible 92% from the line (only two misses all game), 30 assists and only 6 turnovers, all starters in double digits (and scoring more than 16 each)…

    that was awesome.

  50. NYK Ewing

    One thing I noticed is that everyone on the bench was cheering for Amar’e and the win in general except for Randolph. He kind of just stood there looking sullen. Maybe Dantoni is benching him for that attitude (well, aside from the fact that he’s put in no quality minutes this year)?

  51. Peter87

    Landry: 7/11 including 3/5 from 3, 9 rebs including 4 offensive, 3 assists, 2 steals, a block; no fouls, only one turnover…Wow!!!

  52. ltmurray

    NYK Ewing: One thing I noticed is that everyone on the bench was cheering for Amar’e and the win in general except for Randolph. He kind of just stood there looking sullen. Maybe Dantoni is benching him for that attitude (well, aside from the fact that he’s put in no quality minutes this year)?  (Quote)

    The whole AR thing is kind of a bummer…his trade value is only decreasing at this point. But clearly, we don’t need him to win.

  53. Bruno Almeida

    NYK Ewing: One thing I noticed is that everyone on the bench was cheering for Amar’e and the win in general except for Randolph. He kind of just stood there looking sullen. Maybe Dantoni is benching him for that attitude (well, aside from the fact that he’s put in no quality minutes this year)?  

    yeah, I saw that… even Azu was there, on a suit, cheering everybody.

  54. SeeWhyDee77

    My post on facebook (I know) from today:

    umm whas that u say? oh..the sound of my Knicks shittin on the rest of the league 4 tha past few weeks. what? mostly on the backs of lesser comp u say? well..when u lose u r the lesser comp that day lol. look we jus took out Denver at full strength wile the Mustache Man only played 8 ppl today…I think its safe 2 say… we’re not just bad team beaters. Next up BOS an MIA..should b interesting..Oh an did I mention Stat just had his franchise record 8th scr8 30 point game..to go with 8 boards, 4 assists and 3 blocks??? Ray Felton had 19 points and 17 ASSISTS!! Who knew he was gonna ball like that so far?

    Just wanted to share. I’m a proud fan right now…

  55. BigBlueAL

    George Karl complaining about Gallo flopping on the Melo charge which cost the Nuggets the game apparently. No disrespect to Karl since he is a good coach and has gone through alot in the past few months but STFU!!!!! lol

    What a fun, amazing game. Cant wait for Wed, ESPN vs Boston!!

  56. DS

    I don’t see why everyone thinks Randolph’s potential/trade value has diminished. He’s only 5 months older than when we traded for him. I think the Knicks just want to see if they can develop a superstar before they assign him a niche role a la Samuel Dalembert. It’s akin to a young pitcher who MIGHT be a 20 game winner but most likely will end up a key guy in your bullpen.

    I esp. don’t think you can jump to any big conclusions based on how much or little he was celebrating Stoudemire’s run. It’s certainly possible but his seemingly unhappy manner means something but I think he’s just not a very emotional happy-go-lucky guy.

  57. Frank O.

    d-mar: Felton looks totally confident on those FT’s ( I know he missed the tech) There’s no one I’d rather have on the line in that situation.Can I go back a couple of dozen threads ago and revisit the “Chandler should not be shooting 3 pointers” comments? He’s taking them in rhythm at the right time and knocking ‘em down. And it’s not a fluke, he’s been doing it for a while now. Ill Will is just playing phenomenally.Oh, and Stat was OK in the 4th quarter (-:  

    I had the same thought yesterday when I was looking up WC’s stats. He’s improved to something like .360 from 3 pt. He’s been a .317 shooter before.
    Pretty impressive improvement, and he’s been shooting even better than that during this streak.
    He nearly matched Carmelo’s 31 with 27, but melo took 27 shots, made 11. Chandler took 17 and made 11.
    WC outplayed Anthony by a lot, IMHO.

    And you ahve to imagine, Carmelo is going to take shots from STAT who hit 13 of 23.

    Not sure I want to trade for Melo…But we’ll see.

  58. Mulligan

    cgreene: was the gallo charge at the end a flop or good d?  

    What’s the dif? Melo definitely pushed him, but Gallo had the presence of mind to sell it up because it was a crucial possession.

  59. Frank O.

    BTW, did anyone notice the shot that gallo hit in the corner and was fouled? It was ruled a deuce.
    Well, when he hit it, and fell, it almost looked as if Carmelo cracked a quick grin, like, damn, nice shot.

  60. Bruno Almeida

    DS: I don’t see why everyone thinks Randolph’s potential/trade value has diminished. He’s only 5 months older than when we traded for him. I think the Knicks just want to see if they can develop a superstar before they assign him a niche role a la Samuel Dalembert. It’s akin to a young pitcher who MIGHT be a 20 game winner but most likely will end up a key guy in your bullpen.I esp. don’t think you can jump to any big conclusions based on how much or little he was celebrating Stoudemire’s run. It’s certainly possible but his seemingly unhappy manner means something but I think he’s just not a very emotional happy-go-lucky guy.  

    Well, D’Antoni is notoriously rough on rookies who are not very polished, and I’m afraid that if he doesn’t show the right attitude he’ll stay out of the rotation.

    I still think he’s got a lot of potential and he might be a useful player, but I’m not sure it will happen with the Knicks the way it’s going.

  61. totti

    Bruno Almeida:
    Well, D’Antoni is notoriously rough on rookies who are not very polished, and I’m afraid that if he doesn’t show the right attitude he’ll stay out of the rotation.I still think he’s got a lot of potential and he might be a useful player, but I’m not sure it will happen with the Knicks the way it’s going.  
    He has a great athletic potential,
    but few talent to play bball
    maybe he can switch to soccer as goalkeeper

  62. NYK Ewing

    If that’s true we make absolutely no move this summer and see what we do this season. He’s signing with us next year.

  63. NYK Ewing

    No move this year* and wait till the offseason. No reason to gut the team unless they take some absolutely shitty players (although – I would do it for Curry – Gallo – Randolph).

  64. Robert Silverman

    Carmelo who? He’s a nice player, but he’s no Landry Fields or Wilson Chandler.

    And although I’d like to use the sarcasm font for the above, seriously: what does he provide that the Knicks need? A go-to scorer in the 4th? Got a guy named Amar’e for that. A low-efficiency volume shooter? No thanks

  65. Bruno Almeida

    NYK Ewing: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5912307THIS JUST IN CARMELO WILL BE A KNICK IN 2011.  

    that’s awesome man, that’s really the perfect news for us.

    Melo putting it that way kills Denver’s chances to get a good offer from us, so either they’ll accept a crap offer or we get him as a free agent.

    let this team grow together, see who fits together, give everyone time to show their talents and maybe only trade Walker for a backup PG.

  66. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Bruno Almeida:
    that’s awesome man, that’s really the perfect news for us.Melo putting it that way kills Denver’s chances to get a good offer from us, so either they’ll accept a crap offer or we get him as a free agent.let this team grow together, see who fits together, give everyone time to show their talents and maybe only trade Walker for a backup PG.  

    They could trade Carmelo for a sack of grain and two donkeys and it’d be a bad trade. Spending 30% of the cap on an overrated volume scorer is franchise suicide for at least four years. When you guys wake up and read the stat sheet instead of the talking-head masturbation, you’ll see what the rest of us see: a huge waste of money.

    I can’t wait ’til Carmelo comes to the Knicks so they spend three times more money on a player who is no better than the SF we have right now, who has a higher TS% and is five years younger.

    This bullsh*t is killing me. Absolutely killing me. I now know how Nationals fans must have felt.

  67. Doug

    If we can sign Melo for only money, sure, why not? If he’s as good as basketball as his reputation suggests, he can figure out how to play with Amare and Felton.

  68. Bruno Almeida

    @173
    well, I don’t think he’s an overrated volume scorer, that’s it.

    we’ve all heard the same “bullsh*t” when the Knicks got Amare, that he was overrated, he would be nothing without Nash, he had a history with injuries, he was a volume shooter…

  69. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    But we can talk about how Carmelo’s TS% will improve in the system, but improve to what? Do you guys think he’s going to jump 50-or-so points to Gallo’s level? We’re not talking about Gerald Wallace here: he’s a defensive sieve and rebounds at a league average rate. That might improve a bit with Nene and Camby out of the mix, but do his numbers suggest that he’s worth $17M a year? Is he worth giving up hope on signing the best point guard since Magic Johnson?

  70. Robert Silverman

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: This bullsh*t is killing me. Absolutely killing me. I now know how Nationals fans must have felt.  

    It’s just gossip, THCJ. You might as well get upset about an US Weekly article stating that divorce is “imminent” for Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie

  71. rama

    Robert Silverman: Carmelo who? He’s a nice player, but he’s no Landry Fields or Wilson Chandler.
    And although I’d like to use the sarcasm font for the above, seriously: what does he provide that the Knicks need? A go-to scorer in the 4th? Got a guy named Amar’e for that. A low-efficiency volume shooter? No thanks  

    May as well forget it, Robert. most of this crowd don’t believe the stats, and they don’t even believe their eyes after a day like today. Every decent C or PF has a career game vs. us, Ill Wil’s playing great, Gallo’s playing smart and efficient (and getting the 4th quarter calls against “stars”), we’ve got fantastic team chemistry, we win again and again and again…and it’s all about how “lucky” we are that Melo wants to come here. Even though, whatever your assessment of his game, it’s obvious he doesn’t fill a need.

    Need a great 5. Need a good backup PG.

    Don’t need an overpaid high-volume low-efficiency shooter.

    Don’t even need to trade the one guy on the roster who has the skills to become a great 5. (And I don’t mean Moz.)

  72. Bruno Almeida

    @176

    come on man, he rebounds at a league average rate?

    do you know how many SF average more rebounds than him? one, and that’s Wallace at 8.3… Melo is second with 8, and the third is Luol Deng with 6.2…

    and true shooting imo only tells part of the story… Gallinari has been taking wide open shots for a while now, while Melo is double teamed very consistently.

    what I’m saying is: having Carmelo on the floor would not only open things up a lot more for Amare, but it would give the role players on this team open shots all the time, which is pivotal in the D’Antoni offense.

    and not getting Melo because it might hurt our chances at getting Chris Paul in 2012 is not reasonable for me, really… do we even know if Paul is willing to leave the Hornets? what if they relocate somewhere else, is he the type of guy who’ll leave his teammates on this kind of situation?

    besides, Paul’s knee is looking increasingly worse and there are many reports that he might not be playing 100%…

  73. rama

    Here’s how much “conventional wisdom” means: before the season, it was all about how the Knicks didn’t have the pieces to land Melo. Nothing they want here. But the Nets, well, the Nets have great pieces. That’s the trade Denver would have made in a minute if Melo would only have agreed to sign there…

    Knicks 8 straight Ws.

    Nets 7 straight Ls.

    The only good news about Melo letting his contract expire so he can sign here in the offseason is that now everyone will get a chance to see just how good the “pieces” are that we already have. Maybe HCJ and Robert and a few others of us are wrong, but by the end of the year I expect it’ll be easier for everyone to see what should ALREADY be obvious…we need to sign someone like Tyson Chandler in the offseason, not Melo. Then we resign all our existing players and go over the cap (picking up a decent backup point along the way), and we go to the Finals year after year. (And that’s if we don’t get a shot at CP3 or Deron, which is less important now that we see RayRay playing just a notch or two below them.)

  74. Bruno Almeida

    @180

    do you really think Felton, Fields, Gallinari, Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler with Douglas, WC, Turiaf and a backup PG is a finals “year after year” team?

    with Miami and Orlando on the east?

  75. jaylamerique

    Bruno Almeida: @176
    come on man, he rebounds at a league average rate?do you know how many SF average more rebounds than him? one, and that’s Wallace at 8.3… Melo is second with 8, and the third is Luol Deng with 6.2……  

    they are referring to rbd% not the conventional rebounding numbers

  76. jaylamerique

    Bruno Almeida: @180do you really think Felton, Fields, Gallinari, Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler with Douglas, WC, Turiaf and a backup PG is a finals “year after year” team?with Miami and Orlando on the east?  

    why wouldn’t it be? better yet if you substitute D-will for Felton you have a championship team that plays d and shoots the ball well..

  77. cgreene

    I have no interest right now on part of the strategy being wait for Chris Paul in 2012. Our PG is the 2nd best player on the team and top 10 if not better in a league full of great PGs and he isn’t injury prone. Sorry, THCJ, but that is not at all a convincing argument. I agree that Melo might not be the answer but the wait-for-CP3-in-2012 is a worse one.

    Would rather go all out for a Gasol, Camby or maybe Varajeo plus a strong backup PG.

    On another note there are actually writers out there writing that Denver is still apparently not interested in the Knicks assets. And others writing that Chandler for Mayo is a good deal for the Knicks. Goes to show how long it takes to change perceptions. Guess being a top 10 team doesn’t even work!

  78. NYK Ewing

    I’m beginning to think that most people on this site would rather see a stat sheet than watch games. Absolutely no consideration is given to the fact that he’s playing in a different system where he’s been relied on year after year as one of the only decent scoring options on a Nuggets team that has CONSISTENTLY made the playoffs because of his impact. This is in a time span where the West has been much stronger than the East as a whole. Do you really think he’s going to play the same role for this Knicks team?

    Do yourselves a favor, get League Pass and watch games. Stop letting stats tell the entire story for you and instead have them augment your understanding of what you see.

  79. Bruno Almeida

    jaylamerique:
    they are referring to rbd% not the conventional rebounding numbers  

    if you count Dominic McGuire, who played 11 games for the Cats this year, Melo is 5th on TRB%, behind McGuire, Damion Jones, Matt Barnes and Shawn Marion, all bench players.

    I don’t want to be THE MELO APOLOGIST, I just think he is much better than you guys give him credit for.

    If the Knicks don’t get him it’s ok for me, but if we have an opportunity to get him cheap, I’d do it.

  80. Bruno Almeida

    jaylamerique:
    why wouldn’t it be? better yet if you substitute D-will for Felton you have a championship team that plays d and shoots the ball well..  

    come on, that’s way too hypotethical.

    just why would Deron Williams leave Utah? they have the huge Kirilenko contract coming off their books this season, they’ll have cap space to sign a good wing player and still keep Millsap and Jefferson…

    If we were guaranteed to get Paul or Williams in 2012, I would agree 100% with you, but that’s not probable, and why go that way if we have a PG who’s playing awesome?

  81. latke

    I’d like to go on the record here saying that adding anthony will make the knicks a better team. If Anthony is not willing to go anywhere else, then the nuggets will have to take whatever the knicks offer, which will probably be Randolph + expirings. Here are the reasons I like Anthony on this team:

    1) He draws a fuckton of fouls. One advantage that we’ve overlooked a bit early on I think has been way we’ve put some key players in foul trouble. Anthony will amplify that effect.

    2) We lack a second player who can draw a double team. I would argue that the reason that the knick “role players” have improved so much this season (Felton, Chandler) is because of the level of attention stoudemire requires. Now we will have a player who can do the same thing when stoudemire is on the bench.

    3) Anthony is not the ball stopper some make him out to be. He is more similar to Paul Pierce than any other player right now (compare their stats!). His defense isn’t as strong, but unlike Lebron James, he is also very effective catching and shooting. Look at Pierce’s efficiency before and after the celts brought together their superteam. He was average before, but since then he’s been a very efficient player.

    4) Bringing in melo this season will get us over the cap this summer, allowing us to resign Chandler and to use the MLE.

    If they make this trade, their next move should be for a guy like Camby, who can still spread the floor with his decent perimeter shooting and can also serve as a defensive centerpiece. Wasting any pieces on a defensive specialist that cant shoot would be a big mistake, as it would be a real problem for the offense.

  82. marxster

    In that interview Sheridan says a deal would look like Gallo, Fields, Curry and a draft pick they’d get for Randolph. I think that’s too much. I really don’t think that getting Melo is that important to give up that much.

    I would rather see them getting Camby and a back up point guard than this.

  83. NYK Ewing

    @ 190

    Why on earth would we need our center to score? With Amare, Melo, Chandler, and Felton, I wouldn’t mind a center who airballs every shot as long as he can rebound and defend.

  84. Bruno Almeida

    NYK Ewing: @ 190Why on earth would we need our center to score? With Amare, Melo, Chandler, and Felton, I wouldn’t mind a center who airballs every shot as long as he can rebound and defend.  

    I think what he meant is that it’s better to get a guy like Camby, who can eventually hit a couple of shots, than a guy like Dalembert, who can’t.

    if we got Melo and kept WC, I too wouldn’t care about our center taking any shots.

  85. BigBlueAL

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: But we can talk about how Carmelo’s TS% will improve in the system, but improve to what? Do you guys think he’s going to jump 50-or-so points to Gallo’s level? We’re not talking about Gerald Wallace here: he’s a defensive sieve and rebounds at a league average rate. That might improve a bit with Nene and Camby out of the mix, but do his numbers suggest that he’s worth $17M a year? Is he worth giving up hope on signing the best point guard since Magic Johnson?  

    I know his numbers this season are still great but I fear Paul might become damaged goods real quick. He looks injured this season, very similar to Brandon Roy. Also honestly with the way Felton has been playing and his age why should the Knicks be looking to make their big move in the summer of 2012 when who knows really what the salary cap will be by then. Hell who knows what the salary cap will be next off-season.

  86. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Bruno Almeida: @176
    come on man, he rebounds at a league average rate?do you know how many SF average more rebounds than him? one, and that’s Wallace at 8.3… Melo is second with 8, and the third is Luol Deng with 6.2…and true shooting imo only tells part of the story… Gallinari has been taking wide open shots for a while now, while Melo is double teamed very consistently.what I’m saying is: having Carmelo on the floor would not only open things up a lot more for Amare, but it would give the role players on this team open shots all the time, which is pivotal in the D’Antoni offense.and not getting Melo because it might hurt our chances at getting Chris Paul in 2012 is not reasonable for me, really… do we even know if Paul is willing to leave the Hornets? what if they relocate somewhere else, is he the type of guy who’ll leave his teammates on this kind of situation?besides, Paul’s knee is looking increasingly worse and there are many reports that he might not be playing 100%…  

    Carmelo Anthony is a league-average rebounder when adjusted for rate. How many players get as many opportunities (read: minutes) as Anthony does? Not many. Let’s look at the tape:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2004&year_max=2011&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=78&height_max=81&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_hof=&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=8000&c2stat=trb_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=trb_per_mp

    I mean, 37th. Not bad. If you don’t use adjusted numbers, you’re comparing apples to oranges. Here’s another handy chart:

    http://www.wagesofwins.com/DurantMelo03030910.html

    And who is he going to pass to if the Knicks give up two of their most-efficient shooters in Gallo and Fields?

  87. Brian Cronin

    we’ve all heard the same “bullsh*t” when the Knicks got Amare, that he was overrated, he would be nothing without Nash, he had a history with injuries, he was a volume shooter…

    We most certainly did not hear the same arguments. It is patently impossible to hear the same arguments against Melo because the arguments against Melo are predicated upon the Knicks already having Amar’e, thereby making Melo an unnecessary use of resources when he’s getting paid $20 million dollars a season. Think about that, $40 million (a little more, actually, but $40 is close enough) out of the Knicks’ $58 million salary cap would be going to two guys.

    The Knicks are going to pay Melo the same salary as Chandler, Gallo and Fields combined for a guy who is not all that much better than WC and Gallo? It is not a smart allocation of resources.

  88. Bruno Almeida

    I used the TRB%, which measures how many of the rebounds available a guy gets when he is on the floor, and Melo is the 5th best SF, behind 4 bench players…

    and I agree with what NYK Ewing said, stats only tell one part of the story.

    I have said already that I don’t agree with trading Fields + Gallo for him, that’s why I was happy with the news, because Denver will either accept a crappy offer (that does not include 2 of Fields, Gallo and WC) or we’ll get him as a FA.

  89. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    BigBlueAL:
    I know his numbers this season are still great but I fear Paul might become damaged goods real quick.He looks injured this season, very similar to Brandon Roy.Also honestly with the way Felton has been playing and his age why should the Knicks be looking to make their big move in the summer of 2012 when who knows really what the salary cap will be by then.Hell who knows what the salary cap will be next off-season.  

    Listen, I’m not saying Chris Paul is the answer. But his numbers suggest (and still suggest) that he is by far, without a doubt, the best point guard in the NBA. (Despite “reports” that he’s not playing at 100%, he’s still leading the freaking NBA in WS/48 as a point guard. As a point guard.) But we’re not debating giving up quality young players and draft picks for Chris Paul. That debate would have good arguments from both sides, but ultimately, Paul’s knees and Felton’s stellar play might stop one from pulling the trigger. I wouldn’t argue against that. I was wrong about Felton, and wrong about Amar’e.

    What do the numbers suggest about Carmelo Anthony?

    That he’s been held back by his inferior teammates? (No.)
    That he’s an efficient shooter? (No.)
    That he’ll, for the first time in his life as a player of organized basketball, stop driving into double coverage and hoisting up a low-percentage shot? (No.)
    That he’s a great rebounder? (No.)
    That he’s a great defender, a la Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace? (No.)
    That he’s worth 30% of our cap, two of our best young players who are being paid a combined $3M and will be under contract for a combined 5 years after this one? (F___ no.)

    The kool-aid is going around, and I blame ESPN.

  90. Bruno Almeida

    @196

    I disagree, but that’s a way to see things.

    I think paying 20 mil to Melo and still keeping Fields and one of Chandler / Gallinari would definitely make us a better team.

  91. Bruno Almeida

    @198

    but looking only at those stats it ignores a big part of the game: there’s another team playing on the other side.

    how can you compare for example, Anthony’s shooting percentages with Affalo’s percentages without considering under which circunstances they take those shots?

    Affalo is more efficient, but he only pulls the trigger on open shots or drives to the basket, while Melo gets all the tough shots after a play has broken, gets all the end of quarter shots, all the tough shots in the 4th quarter…

    Melo’s play is specifically what allows Affalo for example to shoot 43% from 3, Nene to lead the league in FG%…

  92. John Kenney

    If this rumored trade is anything more than randolph, gallo, curry… I’m going to be really upset. Why would we trade the number two rookie from his class?? Rookie contracts get you THE best bang for your buck in the league. We have a starting guard that we got in the 2nd round, and we want to give him up??? The more I think about the game I saw this afternoon….we don’t need Melo. I’m praying DW knows that giving up chandler is not worth it. If I wake up seeing a Knicks trade involving Chandler or Fields… please Donnie. Hold out.

  93. latke

    NYK Ewing: @ 190Why on earth would we need our center to score? With Amare, Melo, Chandler, and Felton, I wouldn’t mind a center who airballs every shot as long as he can rebound and defend.  

    What makes the PNR so effective is that everyone standing around the perimeter is a threat. You have one guy that the defense can leave, and you make it much easier for the defense to recover. Camby is no offensive dynamo, but at least he can make open 17 footers. Honestly, the ideal player for the NYK right now would be Charles Oakley in his prime. We don’t need shot blocking. We just need a guy with the ability to defend any big, to clean the glass, and to make open perimeter shots. Oakley was automatic from 17 feet.

    I haven’t seen much of Tiago Splitter, but he might be worth making a move for — we’ll have a surplus of wing players, and SAS could use someone to backup ginobili/jefferson. Varejao seems like the only other viable option out there.

    Regardless, if we’re looking at the suns as a model for success, their best team waos 06/07 when they lost to the spurs after stoudemire and diaw were suspended when they left the bench after the horry hip check. That team started Diaw at center, with Kurt Thomas off the bench for 18 mpg.

    Nash -> Felton
    Stoudemire -> Chandler
    Marion -> Gallinari
    Bell -> Fields
    Diaw -> Stoudemire
    James Jones -> Shawne Williams
    Thomas -> Turiaf

    THe knicks are a decidedly smaller team than even that very small suns team. What we’re missing is another power forward with a little more bulk than Stoudemire who can shoot from the perimeter and guard other big people (Diaw). Bell and Marion were also superior defenders to what the knicks offer, although Felton is a definite defensive upgrade on Nash. A guy like Camby could do a lot of what Diaw did (passing, perimeter shooting) while doing even…

  94. latke

    BTW, if the Nugs go full rebuild, they might also be willing to part with Nene. What (if anything) would you offer for a package of Nene and Anthony?

  95. knickterp

    Melo’s a tough call but I trust Walsh and D’Antoni. Mike’s seen him up close for years, he already has a feel for what type of impact Melo will make in his system. If the trade happens, it’s obvious these two think Melo can be a difference maker.
    Also we have Amare, who has almost singlehandedly led this turnaround and who, I’d think, still wants to play with a good friend. And Amare would like to pass the ball to Melo in the 4th and watch him go to work a few times, as opposed to doing it himself for 82 games.
    I do think this situation places an exaggerated importance on the upcoming games. If we get slaughtered by Boston and Miami, momentum for the trade will be tremendous.

  96. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    knickterp: Melo’s a tough call but I trust Walsh and D’Antoni.Mike’s seen him up close for years, he already has a feel for what type of impact Melo will make in his system.If the trade happens, it’s obvious these two think Melo can be a difference maker.
    Also we have Amare, who has almost singlehandedly led this turnaround and who, I’d think, still wants to play with a good friend.And Amare would like to pass the ball to Melo in the 4th and watch him go to work a few times, as opposed to doing it himself for 82 games.
    I do think this situation places an exaggerated importance on the upcoming games.If we get slaughtered by Boston and Miami, momentum for the trade will be tremendous.  

    Have you read Moneyball by Michael Lewis or Wages of Wins by Dave Berri? Read those books if you want to see how good decision-makers within sports franchises have been, historically. You could watch every shot that Carmelo Anthony takes all season and not be able to tell me his FG%, much less how his efficiency compares with the rest of the league.

    Traditional scouts (and sportswriters) have fooled front offices for decades. Recent examples? Kwame Brown. Eddy Curry. Stromile Swift. Dajuan Wagner. Darko Milicic. Sebastian Telfair. Darius Miles. Michael Sweetney. Adam Morrison. All touted as big-time NBA players. Don’t believe the myth that they’re somehow more knowledgeable than a person who can interpret a series of numbers on Basketball Reference dot com. They just have jobs, and need to appear authoritative to keep them.

  97. knickterp

    I’ve read Moneyball and wholeheartedly endorse the use of advanced stats in baseball, a game much less influenced than basketball by the “human officiating” element, whereby an aged and plodding Paul Pierce can continually drive to the basket and get critical free throws at will to this day (just one example of many). Carmelo will do the same for the next several years, at least.
    As far as basketball, I think our management team has used advanced statistics to some degree–D’Antoni has talked of efficiency, for example–and none of those players you list were misjudged by Walsh/D’Antoni (as far as I know) AND none of those players you list compare in any way to Carmelo Anthony’s body of work.
    I do appreciate you noting above that your use of such stats steered you completely wrong on Amare and Felton, our two most important acquisitions so far.

  98. BigBlueAL

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Have you read Moneyball by Michael Lewis or Wages of Wins by Dave Berri? Read those books if you want to see how good decision-makers within sports franchises have been, historically. You could watch every shot that Carmelo Anthony takes all season and not be able to tell me his FG%, much less how his efficiency compares with the rest of the league.Traditional scouts (and sportswriters) have fooled front offices for decades. Recent examples? Kwame Brown. Eddy Curry. Stromile Swift. Dajuan Wagner. Darko Milicic. Sebastian Telfair. Darius Miles. Michael Sweetney. Adam Morrison. All touted as big-time NBA players. Don’t believe the myth that they’re somehow more knowledgeable than a person who can interpret a series of numbers on Basketball Reference dot com. They just have jobs, and need to appear authoritative to keep them.  

    I appreciate and respect advanced stats in basketball but I dont think individual players stats, no matter how advanced they are, tell you as much as they do in baseball. Far from it actually imo.

    There are way more variables in what influences a player’s stats in basketball that have nothing to do with themselves. Advances stats in basketball to me still involved too much projections and assumptions. If you dont think a specific system can vastly affect a player’s stats and performance than how can you explain Felton this season?? Or Trevor Ariza since he has left the Lakers??

    BTW I am on the fence on acquiring Melo so trust me your analysis on him definitely has me worried about acquiring him and I dont agree with the majority of the media who make it seem like acquiring him is a no-brainer. However looking at basketballreference.com does not in any way make you as qualified to make basketball personel decisions as the GM’s employed in the NBA right now.

  99. Unreason

    Howzit. Transplanted New Yorker in Hawaii here.
    Time difference and overwork keep me from watching many games. I like your guys’ stuff. Helps me stay in touch with the excitement of the Knicks resurgence.
    General observations on the stats vs. eyes argument about Melo:
    In general, stats are great when most things stay the same. If all other things are equal, good metrics on prior performance should tell a lot about future performance. But basketball has so many interacting variables it’s hard to know how good even “advanced” metrics are at capturing what they claim to or how strongly they are affected by all the things that aren’t or can’t be measured. It would be cool for someone with the time to try to predict key stats (e.g. Amare’s total rebound rate per 40 min) based on historical performance for 1, 5, 10, 20 upcoming games and track how predictive they are. Do that enough times and you’d get a confidence interval that’d tell you something like “we can be 90% sure Amare’s TRR will be between 6 and 9 over the next ten games”. And it would help estimate how good that stat is at predicting future performance when big factors change. Like a new starting line up, coach, or team. I think your stats vs eyes question is all about that issue. I don’t think the data exists to be sure one way or the other.
    I suspect that big changes like a change of team play havoc with the predictive value of stats. I also think groups of experts (rather than individuals) are often as good or better than stats in making judgements about many things that are complex and hard to predict. But I’m a scientist who works with stats constantly and respects their value.
    Re Melo’s efficiency, I’m not convinced that stats tell the whole story. But I’m more concerned about messing with the current roster’s chemistry than with eFG or PER. Signing him or passing on him is a gamble either way. I’d place my bet based on what those who know him say about his likely fit with…

  100. BigBlueAL

    Also as knickterp mentioned above all the extreme stat heads here during the off-season basically mocked and ripped the signings of Amar’e and Felton and were so sure David Lee was as good if not better than Amar’e. Im glad Walsh is running the team and not any of them.

  101. rohank

    To put in my 2 cents here. I have to agree with those of you who plead moderation with respect to analyzing statistics. I work with statistics a lot and certainly appreciate their value, but there’s a very solid argument as outlined by Unreason in 209 that cautions that their applicability is based upon a number of assumptions that may or may not hold true.

    Which is why the “eye-test” is important too.

    Personally, I would lowball denver with randolph and curry and say “take it or leave it”. I’d be very surprised if they didn’t take that at the trade deadline.

    If we have to give up ANY of Fields, Chandler, or Gallo, I’d be disappointed in Walsh. I, too, am afraid of messing with the Knicks’ current chemistry. “If it aint broke, dont fix it…”

  102. tastycakes

    Here is the thing, for all of the endless, breathless media hype about Melo getting traded to the Knicks, there is basically no reason for the Knick front office to give up the farm in a trade for the guy.

    He basically has already admitted (if you can believe the rumors) that he will not sign an extension with anybody else. If this is true, this completely destroys the Nuggets’ leverage. Basically Melo is saying to the Nugs: “You can trade me to the Nets or Bobcats if you want, but neither of those two teams is going to be happy with it.” Now, MJ or Prokhorov may actually be dumb enough to take the huge risk that they can bring Melo on board and convince him to stay at the end of the season, but that would be an enormous risk to take for a struggling franchise! Certainly if the Nuggets can get a better deal from another team, they’d take it.

    But the Knicks, come on, it’s clear that the guy wants to play in New York, with Amar’e, for D’Antoni. Why trade *anybody* to get him? OK, if you think bringing him on now will make you into a contender immediately .. but would Donnie think that?

    Many smart posters here are noticing that we have a very, very good offensive basketball team, and when you look at Anthony’s considerable talents, it’s not totally clear how he makes the team that much better immediately. They might be better, but are they going to beat the Heat or Celtics or Magic this year by adding him?

    I think there is reason to believe the Knicks could be — as presently constructed — a Top 10 team in the league, a team that goes to the second round of the playoffs in a *very* tough Eastern Conference. Chandler and Gallo are making big steps forward. Fields is absolute gold as a glue guy.

    If it comes down to ditching Curry’s fat ass and moving a guy who doesn’t play (AR), I’ll take the chance. But I’m not sure you’re going to see a whole lot of urgency to disrupt this team right now.

  103. omari

    Ok Knick fans yes we are happy we are winning, but this team can’t beat the big teams without another star clutch player. Gallo doesn’t show up against Boston, and the big 3 in Miami will eat this team alive. I think we need Camelo to make this team a real contender in the East. Then if we can trade for one of Sacramento Centers for expiring contract, then we are good and ready to contend, plus we are younger and would be deeper than Miami and Boston.

  104. Bruno Almeida

    @214

    I agree with you completely, but nobody is saying that the Knicks should do whatever it takes to get Melo, I don’t remember anyone saying that it would be good to trade Fields + Chandler + Gallinari for Melo, for example.

    I used to think that AR, Curry and Gallo would be the right offer, but now that Carmelo has all but said that he will go to the Knicks no matter what, I say offer AR and Curry only, or get him via free agency.

  105. tastycakes

    BigBlueAL: Also as knickterp mentioned above all the extreme stat heads here during the off-season basically mocked and ripped the signings of Amar’e and Felton and were so sure David Lee was as good if not better than Amar’e.Im glad Walsh is running the team and not any of them.  

    I probably lean towards the statheads a bit since I am a math & science kind of guy by nature, and I think that conventional wisdom based on observation alone is often misleading.

    If I remember correctly, ‘stats guys’ were arguing that Stat was not better than Lee by enough to clearly warrant the cost differential. But did anybody *really* suggest he wasn’t better than Lee?

    I do remember some (like the dearly departed Ted Nelson) making a convincing case for Ray Felton not being any better than Chris Duhon. In this particular case, I continue to be pleasantly surprised. I think the main factor here is that Felton was a guy playing in the absolute wrong system for his particular talents, and has moved into a system that suits him better, and as a result, makes him look like a borderling star player. I sure hope he keeps it up!

  106. tastycakes

    omari: Ok Knick fans yes we are happy we are winning, but this team can’t beat the big teams without another star clutch player.Gallo doesn’t show up against Boston, and the big 3 in Miami will eat this team alive.I think we need Camelo to make this team a real contender in the East.Then if we can trade for one of Sacramento Centers for expiring contract, then we are good and ready to contend, plus we are younger and would be deeper than Miami and Boston.  

    They haven’t played the games yet, so we’ll see.

    But you raise a good point: Eddy Cheeseburgers expiring contract is probably our best deadline trade asset, and could be used in any number of ways to improve the team as we get down to it.

    Another reason not to jump at Melo — there could be better packages out there for the assets we’ve got on the roster today, and again, if you can just sign him as a FA at the end of the year, why mess with what’s working?

  107. tastycakes

    Bruno Almeida: @214I agree with you completely, but nobody is saying that the Knicks should do whatever it takes to get Melo, I don’t remember anyone saying that it would be good to trade Fields + Chandler + Gallinari for Melo, for example.I used to think that AR, Curry and Gallo would be the right offer, but now that Carmelo has all but said that he will go to the Knicks no matter what, I say offer AR and Curry only, or get him via free agency.  

    Totally agreed. I think there’s a lot of arguing-in-agreement going on about what a reasonable trade would look like. Of course, if you read enough sports media, you’d get the idea that the Knicks might give up a lot to get the guy.

    It does seem like there are two camps emerging amongst the fans: the “we need Melo to be a real contender and should deal for him” group vs the “he doesn’t add enough to be worth any deal, so let’s wait for free agency before making a decision”.

    I put myself in the latter group.

  108. BigBlueAL

    tastycakes:
    I probably lean towards the statheads a bit since I am a math & science kind of guy by nature, and I think that conventional wisdom based on observation alone is often misleading.If I remember correctly, ‘stats guys’ were arguing that Stat was not better than Lee by enough to clearly warrant the cost differential.But did anybody *really* suggest he wasn’t better than Lee?I do remember some (like the dearly departed Ted Nelson) making a convincing case for Ray Felton not being any better than Chris Duhon.In this particular case, I continue to be pleasantly surprised.I think the main factor here is that Felton was a guy playing in the absolute wrong system for his particular talents, and has moved into a system that suits him better, and as a result, makes him look like a borderling star player.I sure hope he keeps it up!  

    Thats my point about Felton though, it seems to me that there were factors leading to his inefficiency mainly the system he plays in. Just looking at his advanced stats and disregarding the style of play he played in and just saying he sucks and most people disregarding what playing for D’Antoni would do for him.

    Also being so damn arrogant by implying most people who run teams in the NBA are dumber than a fan who reads and studies basketballreference and apparently knows how to properly interpret those stats is a big reason why stat heads get annoying and dismissed easily at times. Its the arrogant dismissing of any view that goes against their’s, which has been mentioned ad nauseum in the last couple of weeks with the whole Ted Nelson thing, that gets real old fast.

  109. omari

    Nothing is guarantee next year, and we all know that it will be a sign and trade next year so we will have to give up something. Besides, Next year if we do sign him and keep all of our players like you all are saying, who starts, Melo. So the minutes won’t be there for the other guys. I say get him now, and go for a Championship NOW!!! We put it off, say Stat has an injury or something crazy happen. Remember Gallo use to have back problems say that acts up this year. Go for the sure thing Knick fans!!!!

  110. jon abbey

    “I think there is reason to believe the Knicks could be — as presently constructed — a Top 10 team in the league, a team that goes to the second round of the playoffs in a *very* tough Eastern Conference.”

    let’s not get ahead of ourselves, there are five teams that I think are clearly better than us (or will be by playoff time): Boston, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Atlanta. this team is playing great right now, but the main players are also playing a ton of minutes, and a nice win today doesn’t negate that the schedule has been quite easy so far.

    Melo is coming, it’s just a question of when, so those arguing against him had better hope that their opinions of him are wrong.

  111. Bruno Almeida

    @219

    yeah, and the media guys are only starting to watch our team in the last few games after the streak started, so they were pretty oblivious to how well Fields, WC and Gallo are playing, which makes them eminently tradable by the so-called experts.

    I think there’s a third group that says that we shouldn’t get Melo, period.

    I put myself on the second one, but if a favourable deal comes up (AR or Houston pick if that rumoured trade happens + Curry), do it.

  112. david

    I pitched this earlier, but I think Memo Okur would be a nice trade pickup for us if he comes back healthy — Utah is over the tax limit, but would like to come under, they have a history of salary dumps (Eric Maynor last year, for instance), and they are playing really well without him. Given the doubt about his injury, he could be had for not too much (Curry and Douglas for Okur and Raja Bell?), and as his contract is only 2 years, it wouldn’t exactly set us back too far. The combination of his shooting, which would help space the floor, and ability to guard bigs would be fantastic as a starter or first big off the bench..

  113. Unreason

    Since waiting for DWill or CP3 seems less tantalizing (to me at least) given Felton’s new ass-kicking ways…. If the East starts to look like a foregone conclusion between Boston and Miami over the next couple of years, how monsterously far fetched is it to wonder whether Dwight Howard might want to take a “haircut” in 2012 to join STAT and co. ?

  114. bockadoo

    @221 omari – EXACTLY. I was going to post those thoughts as well. Durant and Carmelo are the two purest, unstoppable scorers in the league. STAT can’t keep playing all these minutes – he’s got a long contract ahead of him. He is also in his prime. We need to take advantage of this situation now. We lose too much when STAT takes a rest. If Melo was in there, we’d have no such stretches. I thought Gallo could be that guy, but he’s just not ready. WC is getting better, but he’ll never be as good as Melo. Gotta keep Fields though for the glue. Get Mozgov 15 minutes too. We’ll just beat teams with offense. they won’t be able to stop us. regular season or playoffs.

  115. d-mar

    There was some concern on this blog in earlier posts that Dolan might push Walsh to get Melo at all costs for financial reasons, i.e. more $$ to Cablevision resulting from more fan interest. The way the Knicks are playing right now, I don’t think Melo would add much in terms of added revenue, except possibly an additional playoff round.

    I think if there’s a risk of not pulling the trigger on a deal sooner rather than later, it’s that a contender like the Mavs or Magic is able to put an attractive package together and is willing to “rent” Melo for one year with the hope that he’ll re-sign after a strong playoff run.

  116. omari

    Okay, I hope we win these next few games. But I don’t believe this team can beat Miami, Bos, ATL, ORL and CHI in the east. I trade Camelo for Gallo, Mozgov, and Randolf. Then I will take to Sacremento for Thompson or Dalembert and Udrih for Curry, Walker, and Rautins.
    C – I prefer Thompson but may end up with Dalembert
    PF – Stat
    SF – Camelo
    SG – Fields
    PF – Felton
    Bench
    F/C Turiaf
    F – Williams
    F- Chandler (6th Man)
    SG – Douglass
    PG – Udrih
    Mason
    Azubuike or we can put him in Melo deal and keep Mozkov

  117. tastycakes

    “let’s not get ahead of ourselves, there are five teams that I think are clearly better than us (or will be by playoff time): Boston, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Atlanta”

    I’m not so sure Chicago and Atlanta are definitely better than we are right now, but we’ll see in due time. Certainly Chicago with Boozer might be on the way up.

    Best case scenario, that’s our tier, and we play one of them in the first round of the playoffs with a shot at winning. Worst case, we finish 6-8 and get beat down in the first round. (I mean, worst case given the team as presently constructed based on what we’ve seen so far — Amar’e getting injured or something would obviously change the dynamics in a big way)

  118. omari

    Bokadoo we see eye to eye and tasty cakes I agree with you somewhat. We are not gonig to beat a healthy Chicago or Atlanta. However with Camelo I think we can. Now with the @228 I think we Top 3 team. I would only fear a healthy Boston because of their D, and Mia has talent but we will be a deeper team than them.

  119. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, best case scenario I would imagine is the 5th seed and a 1st round matchup with the Bulls with possibly homecourt advantage. Safe to say seeds 1-3 are a lock between Boston, Miami and Orlando. Bulls are a lock to be the 4th seed because they will be the division winner in the Central but the 5th seed if they have a better record would have homecourt in the series.

    I believe the most likely scenario though is probably the 6th seed for the Knicks which I wont complain about one bit because before the season started if you wouldve told me the Knicks would finish 6th in the East with a win total in the mid-40’s I wouldve signed up for that in a heartbeat. Even more so after the 3-8 start lol.

  120. rohank

    According to Sheridan’s report, the Knicks would “definitely” include Fields in the deal if that’s what it takes to get Melo. I do NOT agree with this, especially with the deal being: gallo, fields, AR and curry for melo. In that case, i would say hold out donnie, either for february or july.

  121. marxster

    Guys, we’ve talked this subject to death. Let’s put our faith in the trusty hands of Donnie Walsh and see what happens. He’s the one that got us this far. He’s not so stupid to trade away all our youth.

  122. omari

    I second that, I would only deal 1/3 (Gallo, Chandler, Fields) because we will be losing atleast 2 starters unless Azubuike is back and healthy because he was suppose to be our starting SG

  123. ess-dog

    At this point, I don’t see why we wouldn’t just wait til summer 2011 for Melo. Is he really going to sign with Jersey to play there 2 more years with Brook and no one else? Is he going to play in Charlotte – much worse place to live than Denver and smaller market? Chicago? Do they even want Melo? And what would Denver get from them? some really bad 1st rounders, Deng and Gibson?
    I just don’t see him extending anywhere else.
    I agree with everyone that if we have to make a trade, an AR/Curry deal is acceptable. I would possibly consider Chandler if needed since he’s expiring, but I’d rather wait for a rotation of Felton, Fields, Gallo, Melo, Stat, Chandler, TD, AR, Turiaf, Shawne. With some maturation, that’s about as deep a 10 as Boston has.

  124. Mulligan

    I think, as I suspect many do, that there’s nothing wrong with acquiring Melo, it’s mostly the price tag. 40 million dollars for 2 players is not a good business move. San Antonio doesn’t spend that much for it’s big 3, Miami’s big 3 cost 42 million this year and Boston’s Big 4 costs 50.

    Add to this the fact that Melo doesn’t shore up our major deficiencies (frontcourt defense, backup pg) and I just don’t think that’s a wise investment. Whoever said we need vintage Charles Oakley – I’m right there with ya, but I’d settle for Verajao or Camby, maybe even Reggie Evans (unless he’s out for the season?). I think that, plus some improvement from the bench, and we could really push for the 3rd or 4th seed if things roll the right way with Orlando, Chicago and Atlanta.

  125. rohank

    Another thing that we need to consider is that we have no idea what the next CBA has in store for us. What if it’s a hard cap and we end up having to release melo!?

  126. Bruno Almeida

    I like Reggie Evans, but he’s not tall enough to guard most big men, he’s a great rebounder but with him Amare would have to guard taller centers, and that would be a disaster.

    for me, I’d be very happy if we pursue one of Marc Gasol, Dalembert, Tyson Chandler or Nene if he uses his ETO (highly unlikely, I think).

  127. Spree8nyk8

    Guys, realistically you’re going to have to get on board with the notion that Melo IS going to be coming, whether we agree on it or not. I just hope that the knicks lowball their offer and drag it out until closer to the deadline. I see no reason why any deal with Denver has to include 2 starters, it’s ridiculous. Denver has no leverage to force that. I say just let them lose him for nothing (which is our best option for us) although I just really don’t see that happening. I’m 99.9% sure melo is a knick in february.

  128. yoda4554

    Hi. Longtime lurker here. I just wanted to add one thing, since some of the statheads here seem to be in retreat. Let’s consider the claim that Carmelo Anthony, despite not appearing to be a very efficient scorer himself (not bad, mind you, way better than Brandon Jennings or Iverson or TMac, but not on the level of Lebron or CP3) has a positive effect on his teammates’ ability to score–that is, that all the attention he draws causes guys like Billups and Nene and Afflalo to get more space and thus score more efficiently. There’s an easy way to check this: we know how many points per 100 possessions the Nuggets have scored each year, and we know how many points per 100 possessions they’ve scored while Melo’s been on the floor (his ORtg). If Melo has this positive effect, then we would expect his ORtg to be higher than the team’s–because presumably, when he’s off the court, his teammates don’t get the benefit of the defense’s attention being drawn away.

    2011: Nuggets’ ORtg: 109.5 Melo’s ORtg: 106
    2010: Nugs 111.8 Melo 110
    2009: Nugs 110.4 Melo 105
    2008: Nugs 110 Melo 109
    2007: Nugs 107.6 Melo 109
    2006: Nugs 105.5 Melo 110
    2005: Nugs 106 Melo 103
    2004: Nugs 103.9 Melo 102

    That settles it, I think. Eight years in the league, and in only two of them have the Nuggets been a better scoring team with Melo on the court than off; those two years were four seasons ago. And if you think that it’s just because Melo has to face his opponents’ starters and not the bench, note that fellow Nuggets starters Nene (120, 124, 130), Billups (121, 120, 109), and Afflalo (107, 114, 119) all have substantially higher ORtgs than Melo the last three years. It’s just as Clyde said today–when you’re a star like Melo, the ball stops moving when you’re on the floor.

    He’s not a bad player–some teams, like the Bucks, would really be improved by getting him. But if you’ve got a team whose offense hums without him–and ours, like the Nuggets’,…

  129. NYK Ewing

    Completely agree that stats tell a lot more of the story in baseball than sports like basketball or football. There isn’t a lot of variability in terms of what can affect stats in baseball. But in basketball, stats don’t account for a lot of things – what offensive system is being used, who else is on your team affecting play, who’s guarding you, etc. Player X had a lower fg% than player Y, but player Y was taking mostly open shots while player X was creating his own shots in the lane. They need to be put into context, even advanced stats. That’s why I keep saying stats should augment what you see, not tell the whole story.

    Just thinking from the Nuggets position, this trade is probably going to the deadline even if it does happen. Just for financial reasons, the Nuggets are going to milk as much revenue out of people coming to see Melo as possible. And it gives him time to reconsider (which I don’t think he’ll do, but still).

  130. jon abbey

    no one is mentioning that Melo would still be tradeable on a $20M per year deal, assuming he stays healthy. Denver is begging him to stay at that price, teams would line up if NY made him available after signing him, if that was something NY decided made sense at some point.

  131. Spree8nyk8

    jon abbey: “I think there is reason to believe the Knicks could be — as presently constructed — a Top 10 team in the league, a team that goes to the second round of the playoffs in a *very* tough Eastern Conference.”let’s not get ahead of ourselves, there are five teams that I think are clearly better than us (or will be by playoff time): Boston, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Atlanta. this team is playing great right now, but the main players are also playing a ton of minutes, and a nice win today doesn’t negate that the schedule has been quite easy so far.
    .  

    1) only 1 of those teams has proven themselves to this point to be “clearly” better and that’s Boston. 1 of those teams does not have as good a record as we do, 1 has the same record, and 2 of those teams are only ahead by 1 game.

    2) Our schedule is what it is. We can only play the teams as they are scheduled. But hammering those teams does not make us not as good as them. None of those teams you named would have been better than 13-1 with the same schedule.

    3) our schedule has only been easy when viewed from a win % perspective. What isn’t being looked at is the fact that we’ve played more road games with that schedule, played more back to backs with that schedule than any other team. Winning on the road and winning back to backs is not easy regardless of the schedule. Add to that starting a season with 10 new players and after the FIRST 1/4th of the season being within a game of 2nd in the conference is AMAZING.

    People are so willing to discount the success this team has had instead of just embracing it. How many fucking more games do they have to win before OUR FANS will say “maybe we are that good?” For all any of us know we could be the best team in the conference. Why not? The game is played on the court and they are getting it done. be happy.

  132. rama

    Spree – I’m willing to embrace how good this team is and can be; how come you aren’t? Because…you’re one of the main Melo proponents.

    I’m not a stat guy, and I’m not an “eyes” guy. I’m a guy whose dad played pro ball for a few years, who played through college himself, but who deeply respects the level of analysis we’re now capable of. (Still not enough, but getting there.) I made a huge push for RayRay over the summer – got in a major fight with ole Ted Nelson. I was right. I was moderately excited about Amare – worried about his knees, worried about his defense, but cognizant that we needed someone whose intensity the other players would respect, a focal point for the offense, a dude who other major players would want to play with. I’m still worried about his D, but see that he can step it up when the game is on the line, so all in all, I’m pretty damn thrilled and don’t feel it’s too early to say I called that one right, too.

    But we should not pursue Melo. The stats are really clear on this one, but again, even beyond that, it’s about where we spend our available money…and it’s a damn stupid way to spend it. Doesn’t address need. Doesn’t make us better.

    To me, it feels more than anything else like when Isaiah was hired. I was incredibly angry when that happened, because I knew we were screwed. He destroyed an entire league, for Chrissake! But there were plenty of guys saying, “he knows what it takes to build a champion, he can sign players because they respect him,” etc. Just like there are guys saying now, “we need a second star.”

    Melo seems like a decent guy. He’s a good player. But he is death to our title dream.

  133. ess-dog

    Spree8nyk8:
    How many fucking more games do they have to win before OUR FANS will say “maybe we are that good?”For all any of us know we could be the best team in the conference.Why not?The game is played on the court and they are getting it done.be happy.  

    It’s not being negative to place the Knicks 6th in the east at this juncture. In fact it’s entirely positive after last year and the last 9 years. It’s a sensible placement. Maybe with a tremendous push we could pass Atlanta and maybe Chicago (although they should be tough with Boozer.) Today’s win was a big step, but people want to see games against Boston, LA, Orlando, and the Spurs as a way to gauge this team. It doesn’t mean people aren’t excited about our future with or without Melo or anyone else.

  134. rama

    And for the record, I was a fan of DLee’s and definitely thought it was a debate whether he at $10mil per or STAT at $17mil per was a better idea. That’s a lot of extra dough for other players. BUT, in the end I said we need a star to organize the team around. You can’t build a big winner around all stats guys like DLee, Mike Miller, and Felton.

    Just like you can’t build a big winner around all “stars,” like AI, Melo, and Joe Johnson.

  135. Z-man

    jon abbey: no one is mentioning that Melo would still be tradeable on a $20M per year deal, assuming he stays healthy. Denver is begging him to stay at that price, teams would line up if NY made him available after signing him, if that was something NY decided made sense at some point.  

    Great point, Jon, I was thinking of tha earlier.

    Just got back from the Jets game, need I say more?

  136. Bruno Almeida

    @241

    Nice post man, the stats are definitely surprising to me.

    But let’s say, the 08/09 Nuggets that reached the conference finals, would that team be better without Carmelo?

    let’s say, if the team was Billups / Dahntay Jones / Kleiza / Kenyon Martin / Nene with J.R Smith, Birdman, Carter and Balkman off the bench.

    or even replacing Melo with an above-average SF at the time, let’s say, Caron Butler (20.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 6.2 rpg for the Wizards).

    would that team reach the conference finals?

    I don’t even know if it would be a playoffs team…

  137. Thomas B.

    Landry Fields has a higher WS/48 than Anthony this year and he is doing it for about 1/100th of the money. Anthony’s WS/48 is well below the star level of .200. Anthony peaked at .153 5 years ago and is just above the average line this year .118. For the productivity and the money he is not worth giving up the assets to get him.

    Get Anthony in the off-season if you have to. But if you are going to sell the farm, do it for Chris Paul. Felton, Fields, Gallo, Randolph, and Eddy Curry’s cap room just might get it done. Yes, I know it really wont. Cant a guy dream?

  138. omari

    Knicks are a better team with Melo. He and Stat command double teams plus imagine a pick and role with Felton and Melo that would be insane. Why should we settle to be 2nd best in NY. We are a better team with Melo lets do it. How many of you all before the season didn’t want Melo or even when we were 3-8. I love the young team, but Melo wants to play in NY and he is an All Star and top 5 player in the league. Leave it to a Knick fan to not see this. How about if he ends up in NJ. All these have to do is trade for CP3 with Harris and Favors end of year, and sign Melo then we all would have regrets when we finish behind them every year. I am now living in RI and Celtic fan here don’t even consider the Knicks a challenger. They don’t even take this current team serious. however they fear us if we get Melo. They so don’t want it to happen because they know what it means.

  139. Spree8nyk8

    rama: Spree – I’m willing to embrace how good this team is and can be; how come you aren’t?Because…you’re one of the main Melo proponents..  

    i have said from the outset, I am COMPLETELY fine with it if the Knicks do not trade for him. If I could pick right now between trading for him and waiting it out and getting him as a free agent I would wait it out. But if a reasonable trade can be made I’m just not opposed to it. I do think he makes us better over the long run. I think that just like Amare has blown away expectations I think he can do the same. I think he’s capable of playing in a way that you guys do not think he is.

    It’s just how i feel. But I also always felt that most expectations of this team for this year by people here were wayyyy too low. I really really wish I had spoken my mind here in the beginning of the season, but everyone here was so adamant that 7th or 8th was the absolute best we could do that I just didn’t want to suggest anything else. I think the team we have right this second can be a 3 or a 4 seed. Do I want to mess that up? hell no, but I do think that Carmelo can push the teams progress forward. But once again I’m at odds with the opinions of most here. I love this team wholeheartedly. I have a tattoo of the logo for god’s sake. I just want whatever they do to work out. That’s it.

    I’m a fan…

  140. Spree8nyk8

    If you would have posted last november that hey in the offseason we are going to strike out on bosh/wade/bosh but end up with a team thats so good that most here don’t want to get Carmelo Anthony what do you think response to that would have been here in the forums lol.

  141. Garson

    all numbers aside…. I think what we are overlooking here is that we would be jepordizing the posotive chemistry we have going on right now. the connection that we have between players hasnt been like this in a long long time. Guys generally seem like they enjoy each other and feed of each others energy.

    This reminds me of the pistons trading Billups for iverson. They got one of the top scorers in the league in return whos numbers outweighed billups however took away the “team” of the team.

  142. omari

    Not a fair assessment “Garson”, Billups was an all start and a great leader on that Pistons team. And Iverson was a selfish player. I think in D’Antoinio system where the ball moves Camelo will fit right in. his jump shots with 20 feet are good. He will score 25 a game and show up in the big games unlike Gallo. This team is winning close games but haven’t dominated anyone. We all see with no Stat in the game how the offensive struggle. Camelo can help with that. He matches up with Lebron and Pierce. Right now we don’t have that. Then we need a Dalemburt in the middle and we are all set. Dale, Stat, Melo, Fields, Felton as starters

  143. SJK

    I do not believe that adding Melo would make us a worse team. There’s no way that adding a player of that caliber could make us worse on the floor. However, the concerns in adding Melo have to be in what we would give up to make the move. If Melo really only wants to come here, Denver should have no leverage. If we give up Gallo, Fields, or Chandler I would be seriously disappointed. But I trust Walsh to make the right move… he’s done a good job thus far.

  144. Unreason

    The intangible chemistry thing I don’t want anyone to screw with is our 4th quarter intensity and swagger. Amare and Felton in particular are bringin the fight harder than whoever’s playing us every game. I think that effect is very important and very hard to quantify. I think it instills confidence in everyone else so that even if they’re not making the big plays their presence and attitude are making those big plays more likely.
    rama and yoda4554
    How do you think that “closer mentality” aspect of leadership can be quantified? My impressions of Melo are heavily biased by my memory of his dominant college performance. I think his competitive drive and impact on his teammates haven’t been nearly as positive as a pro, but I’m particularly suspiscious of 4th quarter stats, +/- or otherwise, as a way to judge that.

  145. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    If you guys believe that Carmelo at $17M is that much better than Gallo at $3M, then jeez, I don’t know what to tell you. Look at the &#%@ing numbers or keep drinking the sewage that ESPN puts in the punch bowl. It’ll taste real good in a few months with 60% of the Knicks’ payroll devoted to two players.

  146. Brian Cronin

    To me, it feels more than anything else like when Isaiah was hired. I was incredibly angry when that happened, because I knew we were screwed.

    I still remember where I was. I was in the Strand doing some Christmas shopping when my brother called me to tell me that Layden was fired. There was some talk at the time that the Knicks were looking to fire Layden and replace him with Magic Johnson, which I, of course, thought was a terrible idea. So my brother tells me Layden was fired and I’m like, “Ugh, please don’t tell me they hired Magic.” And he says, “Nope, Isiah Thomas.” And I remember thinking, “Well, as terrible as a decision as that is, at least it’s not Magic Johnson.” I was obviously wrong, as even Magic likely would not have ruined the Knicks as much as Isiah did.

  147. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Bruno Almeida: @241Nice post man, the stats are definitely surprising to me.But let’s say, the 08/09 Nuggets that reached the conference finals, would that team be better without Carmelo?let’s say, if the team was Billups / Dahntay Jones / Kleiza / Kenyon Martin / Nene with J.R Smith, Birdman, Carter and Balkman off the bench.or even replacing Melo with an above-average SF at the time, let’s say, Caron Butler (20.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 6.2 rpg for the Wizards).would that team reach the conference finals?I don’t even know if it would be a playoffs team…  

    You must have missed my post where I showed where Carmelo’s TS%, WS/48, TRB%, etc. ranked compared to the rest of the team. I’ll give you a little hint as to what it read: it ain’t good for your hypothesis.

  148. Brian Cronin

    I put myself on the second one, but if a favourable deal comes up (AR or Houston pick if that rumoured trade happens + Curry), do it.

    My problem is that while yes, I’d be okay with that deal, the Nuggets would never in a million years trade Carmelo Anthony for a draft pick. They’d sooner lose him as a free agent and at least be able to sign and trade him to a team (like the Knicks) for a draft pick then while still having Melo for a playoff run. Melo for a draft pick kills any possible playoff hopes for them.

    So therefore, the only way they’d possibly trade Melo would be for a deal better than the one you mention there as acceptable (which I agree is acceptable), and that, well, is unacceptable to me. ;)

  149. Brian Cronin

    I do not believe that adding Melo would make us a worse team.

    It’s not that adding Melo would make the Knicks worse. It wouldn’t. He would clearly improve the team. He just wouldn’t improve the team so much that he’d be worth the Knicks paying him over a third of their cap room.

  150. Unreason

    Does anyone know how a year-long lockout would effect current contracts? Are contracts agreements to play for a team for a certain number of years or until a certain date?

  151. Robert Silverman

    Unreason: Does anyone know how a year-long lockout would effect current contracts? Are contracts agreements to play for a team for a certain number of years or until a certain date?  

    Contracts remain the same — no years are added/pushed forward

  152. Robert Silverman

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: If you guys believe that Carmelo at $17M is that much better than Gallo at $3M, then jeez, I don’t know what to tell you. Look at the &#%@ing numbers or keep drinking the sewage that ESPN puts in the punch bowl. It’ll taste real good in a few months with 60% of the Knicks’ payroll devoted to two players.  

    I agree with you, buddy. But venting bile only takes away from the strength of your argument

  153. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I consider my argument moot anyway. Donnie and Mike are going to do what they want no matter what I or anyone on this board says. It is my position of inefficacy that leads to the vitriol.

    What I’m trying to say is: I give up.

  154. Robert Silverman

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: I consider my argument moot anyway. Donnie and Mike are going to do what they want no matter what I or anyone on this board says. It is my position of inefficacy that leads to the vitriol.
    What I’m trying to say is: I give up.  

    Again, I hear you. My only advice would be, save the rage till it happens. At this point, this is all just gossip and noise. Try to enjoy the best ball we’ve seen since Clinton was prez.

  155. SeeWhyDee77

    Brian Cronin:
    Think about that, $40 million (a little more, actually, but $40 is close enough) out of the Knicks’ $58 million salary cap would be going to two guys.The Knicks are going to pay Melo the same salary as Chandler, Gallo and Fields combined for a guy who is not all that much better than WC and Gallo? It is not a smart allocation of resources.   

    With the way Wil and Felton has been playing, I am all for adding Melo as another weapon who requires double teaming. But when BC puts it that way, it makes more sense to not go after him. As a matter of fact, I would even say the combo of Rooster/Chandler is better than Melo. More efficient scoring and better overall shooting, passing and defense with our current duo. Plus they’re cheaper and are gonna be for some time. Adding a 5 and a backup 1 is definitely smarter-along with developing AR almost exclusively as a 5. If AR is brought along as a 5 then that would most likely become less of a need. The greater need is in the backcourt. We need a PG who can take some minutes off of Felton and a reliable scorer at the 2 since we don’t know how Azu’s gonna come back.

  156. Bruno Almeida

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    You must have missed my post where I showed where Carmelo’s TS%, WS/48, TRB%, etc. ranked compared to the rest of the team. I’ll give you a little hint as to what it read: it ain’t good for your hypothesis.  

    so Denver reaches the conference finals with Billups, Jones, Kleiza, Martin and Nene in the starting lineup?

    wow.

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