Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 30, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Heat

For your in-post game thoughts.

[Also check out Twitter tonight as Robert Silverman, courtesy of AMEX, meets the Knicks Legends & will be tweeting the whole night!]

Thomas B. here:

The New York Knicks (16-10) host the Miami Heat (19-8).  The Heat enter on a 10 game win streak. Meanwhile the Knicks had their 8 streak snapped by Boston (and the refs) Wednesday in a game that cam down to the final possession.

Most people would expect the Heat to be very strong on offense thanks to a starting line-up that includes three high usage players. Lebron James (30.4 USG-r, 56.5 TS%) , Dwayne Wade (28.9 USG-r, 58.1 TS%) , and Chris Bosh (21.4 USG-r, 55.7 TS%)  provide 23.3, 23.8, and 18.4 points/36 respectively.  But I was surprised to see how strong the Heat are on defense.  The Heat rank 2nd in defensive efficiency (100.4) and 1st in eFG% (46.0). 

    Knicks Offense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
96.4 111.9 52.6 15.6 25.1 26.7
3 4 3 17 20.5 4
    Miami Offense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
90.5 111 51.7 14.4 24.7 29.2
25 6 7 2 22 3
    Knicks Defense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
96.4 110.1 51.1 15.7 27.5 23.7
3 22.5 23 13 22 15
    Miami Defense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
90.5 100.4 46 15.3 24.4 22.5
25 2 1 17 8 10

The Heat’s four factors are quite similar to the Knicks’ previous opponent the Celtics.  Each team does well holding opponents to poor shooting from the floor, while well on offense.  The Heat play a slower pace (90.5, 25th) much like the Celtics (91, 21st). 

Given the similarities between the Celtics and the Heat, the Knicks should be confident that they can play as well against the Heat.  The Knicks have performed well against teams that combine strong defense with slow pace.  Against the Celtics, the Knicks’ pace of 96.4 was right at their average and much higher than what the Celtic prefer to play.   The Knicks also shot well from the floor in that game (eFG% 58.6). The Knicks had similar success against the Hornets who also have a strong defense and slower pace.  As with the Celtics, the Knicks controlled the pace (95.7 ) and shot well from the floor (eFG% 54.8) against the Hornets.

What to watch for 1:  Knicks offensive efficiency.

One of the reasons for the Heat’s success in defensive efficiency and eFG is that they are a strong team on the defensive glass (8th).  This limits chances for second chance baskets for the Knicks.  As the Knicks are a poor offensive rebounding team, they won’t see many second chances so they need to get the best shot they can on each trip down the floor.  One area they may be able to exploit is the Heat interior defense.

What to watch for 2: Heat Interior Defense.

If the Heat have a weakness on defense it is on the interior.  No member of the team that averages more than 20 minutes per game gets even a 1 block per 36 minutes.  Centers Ilgauskas and Dampier average 18.5 and 14.3 minutes per game. Furthermore, neither of them is quick enough to keep up with Amar’e Stoudemire.  As such the plan should be to feed Amar’e inside often.   The Heat have not faced a post play of Stoudemire’s talent level over the last 10 games, so their lack of interior defense has not become an issue.  Perhaps the Knicks can make that an issue tonight.

What to watch for three: Knicks’ reserves.

It is clear that D’Antoni has shortened the rotation. The reserves are down to Douglas, Turiaf, and Williams.  These three need to do a much better job of maintain the offensive flow when they enter the game.  If there was one weak area for the Knicks during the Celtic game, it was the reserve unit.  Every reserve turned in a negative +/- against Boston and Turiaf’s -11 was the worst of the group. Like I’ve said in many other previews, if you are going to play a reserve big man that can’t contribute on offense, why can’t that reserve be the best rebounder of the group–Randolph.

Oh well.  To whomever won the tickets to the game, hope you are wearing your T-shirt and having a great time.

329 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Heat

  1. Spree8nyk8

    lol, we are looking to trade tastycakes for higher productivity. I think we can get Ted Nelson back and a second rounder!

  2. totti

    Let’s see how good they react against lebron and wade superstar aura!

    Go knicks
    send them back to south beach with the tail between the legs!!

  3. totti

    Ok,
    I’ll use the extreme french medecine-man cure:
    st marcelin grilled cheese and baguette bread, all with tuscany olive oil drops and black pepper.

    the result:
    Knicks win, no problem

  4. marxster

    Elevensies!

    Anyone seen Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson talking Knicks? They showed Van Gundy hanging on for dear life on Mourning’s leg. I laugh my … off each time I see that. Those were the days…

  5. Spree8nyk8

    This could be a horrible idea and i’m not going to be offended if you guys think it is. But would it be terrible to start one of our bench players and bring wilson off the bench to provide scoring punch for that unit? Maybe williams to get him going?

    This might not be the game for it since Miami doesn’t have a particularly good bench but I was just wondering.

  6. tastycakes

    Spree, sometimes Chandler is out there with the second unit and it doesn’t seem to help all that much. Also, I think the starting 5 has a certain kind of magic at the moment, we want those 5 guys on the floor at the same time as much as possible. Other units just need to step up and do their job / not lose leads.

  7. Peter87

    Just an idea: since Landry is so smart, could he become a PG? If not, why not? Does he lack ballhandling skills?

  8. Droidz1979

    Spree8nyk8: Damn dude espn3.com has the game with absolutely no lag between regular tv and internet….sick.  (Quote)

    Not here..signal has been crappy to say the least but its better than nothing

  9. Spree8nyk8

    Droidz1979:
    Not here..signal has been crappy to say the least but its better than nothing  

    make sure you don’t have any other things hurting your connection and make it full screen.

  10. Bruno Almeida

    really, really fun start, this team is the most fun I remember watching in a LONG time.

    we just gotta stay with Wade and LeBron on the fastbreaks, let the scrubs try to beat us.

  11. Spree8nyk8

    Doug: Nix showing the Heat how the fast break is RUN.  

    I love how they did a fast break and Wade stayed down the court and got a cherry pick dunk and then felton just said ok and off the make just threw it right back down their throats.

  12. Doug

    Spree8nyk8:
    I love how they did a fast break and Wade stayed down the court and got a cherry pick dunk and then felton just said ok and off the make just threw it right back down their throats.  

    Yeah, that was awesome. It made the Wade dunk irrelevant.

  13. Bruno Almeida

    Droidz1979: they don’t need to double Bosh, its “Bosh” for christ sake! Its not Lebron or Wade  

    I screamed the exact same thing at the tv, keep on LeBron and Wade all the time and force Bosh and the scrubs to try to beat us, they can’t keep hitting shots all the time.

  14. Doug

    BigBlueAL: Apparently the refs have been instructed to not allow the Knicks to shoot any FT’s tonight.  

    STARS GET THE CALLS MAN don’t you know?

  15. BigBlueAL

    In the rare instance they go to the FT line they should actually you know make them. This game has Heat blow out written all over it right now.

  16. Droidz1979

    Hate this article of ESPN’s Henry Abbott : http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22842/new-york-whod-want-lebron-james

    “the real reason New York loathes James is not because he’s so flawed, but because he’s so good. They wanted him. They really wanted him. They didn’t get him, and feelings are hurt. Rather than admitting that, there’s an urge to demonize the guy who dumped them. It’s fun, and part of the theater of sports. But it’s not the truth”
    Not sure if this was posted here already though..

  17. Mulligan

    Droidz1979: Hate this article of ESPN’s Henry Abbott : http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22842/new-york-whod-want-lebron-james“the real reason New York loathes James is not because he’s so flawed, but because he’s so good. They wanted him. They really wanted him. They didn’t get him, and feelings are hurt. Rather than admitting that, there’s an urge to demonize the guy who dumped them. It’s fun, and part of the theater of sports. But it’s not the truth”
    Not sure if this was posted here already though..  

    Uh, it’s kind of true isn’t it? I mean, I think we’re all happy about where we’re at, but to pretend we don’t feel burned by Lebron is not honest.

  18. cgreene

    i hate hearing JVG shilling for coaches the entire broadcast he does it every time.

    Also I believe Mike said in a previous post that JVG was over-rated as coach. I agree he was a better version of Mike Brown one dimensional kinda like the opposite of MDA.

  19. rohank

    The Heat get away with bloody murder on the defensive end with respect to fouls. and not just the big 3 – ALL OF THEM!

    I mean – Turiaf didn’t just fall down by himself at the end of the first quarter…

  20. Droidz1979

    Mulligan: Uh, it’s kind of true isn’t it? I mean, I think we’re all happy about where we’re at, but to pretend we don’t feel burned by Lebron is not honest.  (Quote)

    Its not just that dude, if you read the rest of the article it seems the whole intent is to diss NY and pooh pooh the recent winning streak. He also said :

    “With their millions, their market, and their cap space, they did manage to land — at top dollar — the major free agent with the worst injury history (Stat).”

    “For a long time, the appropriate response to “I’m a Knicks fan” has been “oh, I’m sorry.” But no more, thanks to Stoudemire, Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and a soft schedule of late. There are twinkles of hope”

    I think i may have copied the whole article here though lol

  21. BigBlueAL

    Bruno Almeida:
    we just can’t match with the Heat, and they don’t have a center either…  

    Hey its not a knock on this Knicks team at all. They are making a nice run now to get back into this game and could still pull this game out but what that 1st quarter showed is that if both teams are playing well the Heat’s Big 3 is just way too good for the Knicks right now.

  22. Doug

    rohank: The Heat get away with bloody murder on the defensive end with respect to fouls. and not just the big 3 – ALL OF THEM!I mean – Turiaf didn’t just fall down by himself at the end of the first quarter…  

    This.

    Against any other team, those are fouls.

  23. Doug

    Droidz1979:
    Its not just that dude, if you read the rest of the article it seems the whole intent is to diss NY and pooh pooh the recent winning streak. He also said :“With their millions, their market, and their cap space, they did manage to land — at top dollar — the major free agent with the worst injury history (Stat).”“For a long time, the appropriate response to “I’m a Knicks fan” has been “oh, I’m sorry.” But no more, thanks to Stoudemire, Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and a soft schedule of late. There are twinkles of hope”
    I think i may have copied the whole article here though lol  

    It’s a nice troll job by Abbott. I’ll give him that.

  24. cgreene

    Man those guys got it wrong when they opted for Bosh over Amare. If they had STAT they would be unbeatable for 5 years.

  25. BigBlueAL

    Droidz1979:
    Its not just that dude, if you read the rest of the article it seems the whole intent is to diss NY and pooh pooh the recent winning streak. He also said :“With their millions, their market, and their cap space, they did manage to land — at top dollar — the major free agent with the worst injury history (Stat).”“For a long time, the appropriate response to “I’m a Knicks fan” has been “oh, I’m sorry.” But no more, thanks to Stoudemire, Raymond Felton, Landry Fields and a soft schedule of late. There are twinkles of hope”
    I think i may have copied the whole article here though lol  

    When it comes to anything Knicks related ESPN.com will mock and rip them regardless.

  26. cgreene

    Nick C.: Maybe Gallo is the answer to the bench scoring issue.  

    If the offense can run through him and he can playmake it would solidify the rotation in a big way and make DWTDD a shot maker.

  27. Mulligan

    Lebron’s got to know that he will always be the secret to his team’s success. You can team up with superstar friends or a bunch of roleplayers in cleveland, it doesn’t matter… Lebron’s the piece that makes everything work.

  28. Bruno Almeida

    hotdamn: A little faith Bruno…Heat have hit everything on the perimeter…could go cold…  

    yeah, I know, but most of the shots made by everyone not called LeBron were wide open shots, and even scrubs like Chalmers or Arroyo can hit those.

    our offensive effort has been pretty good, but we gotta close out on shooters, it’s basketball 101.

    at least we came back within 2 with LeBron sitting, now let’s hope he stops hitting jumpers with a hand on his face.

  29. Mulligan

    Z:
    Maybe Gallo should sit on the bench… (?)  

    Except I think Gallo’s confidence is a legitimate issue and a bench demotion might hurt that…

  30. Z

    Mulligan:
    Except I think Gallo’s confidence is a legitimate issue and a bench demotion might hurt that…  

    I was actually referring to D’Antoni taking Gallo out of the game :)

  31. rohank

    FYI – I tried to find Mozgov on facebook and tell him to flatten lebron if he got in the game…

    …but he didn’t accept my friend request!

  32. Bruno Almeida

    Z:
    I was actually referring to D’Antoni taking Gallo out of the game :)  

    man, leave Gallo in the game all the time lol, he’s been incredible.

  33. BigBlueAL

    At half-time of the Celtics trade I wouldve traded Gallo for a player to be named later. Now I wouldnt trade him for LeBron. lol

  34. rohank

    oh boy, oh boy. I’ve got goosebumps right now. If we could parley this momentum into a decent lead by halftime, it would be awesome

  35. Mulligan

    Gallo really gets up for the big games. Hopefully STAT can rub off on him and help him bring the intensity all the time

  36. Droidz1979

    not that good at multi-tasking: posting and watching the game that is so i picked watching the game of course.. love that Chandler fast break and the Knicks can play D too..

  37. Z

    Either the Heat are doing an amazing job defending Amar’e, or they are fouling the shit out of him and not getting called for it…

  38. Mulligan

    Said it last game, but warrants repeating: this is a resilient team. They don’t roll over for anyone.

  39. Doug

    Z: Either the Heat are doing an amazing job defending Amar’e, or they are fouling the shit out of him and not getting called for it…  

    Z: Either the Heat are doing an amazing job defending Amar’e, or they are fouling the shit out of him and not getting called for it…  

    A bit of Column A, a bit of Column B.

  40. Droidz1979

    rohank: FYI – I tried to find Mozgov on facebook and tell him to flatten lebron if he got in the game……but he didn’t accept my friend request!  (Quote)

    maybe i’ll try doing this too dude.. but i think we need to add D’Antoni to our friends list too and beg him simultaneously to give Mozgov playing time lol

  41. cgreene

    i am generally a pretty mellow game watcher. Not a lot of screaming and yelling. I don’t think that I have jumped up like that during a Knicks game since the ’99 team.

  42. BigBlueAL

    Z: Either the Heat are doing an amazing job defending Amar’e, or they are fouling the shit out of him and not getting called for it…  

    A little bit of both.

  43. rohank

    JVG is right about one thing – both chandler and amare’s dunks were both travels.

    Well? FINALLY THE KNICKS ARE GETTING SUPERSTAR CALLS AND RESPECT FROM THE REFS!

  44. rohank

    BTW – did anyone else notice that both wade and bosh yelled really loud to try and get the foul call? Such BS

  45. Bruno Almeida

    BigBlueAL: Bosh is owning Chandler now.  

    it’s such a tough matchup for him, Boish is much taller than him.

    we should try putting Amare on him

  46. Droidz1979

    And

    hotdamn: STFU Sweet Baby James…you missed one.  (Quote)

    And it was Gallo defending him on that one.. he could have probably thought it was a sure 2 already or an and 1 points

  47. BigBlueAL

    Bruno Almeida:
    it’s such a tough matchup for him, Boish is much taller than him.we should try putting Amare on him  

    There is a reason neither one of them are covering each other. lol

  48. Droidz1979

    BigBlueAL: Dont think Amar’e will be getting 30 tonight. Hopefully it wont matter.  (Quote)

    I’d rather have a win than Amare’s 30 point scoring streak.. As long as Gallo, Chandler, Felton and Fields remains on fire then am ok with it.. dude can always defend, rebound and block shots. Oh, throw in a lil Shawne Williams in there and some Turiaf contribution then am in basketball heaven already

  49. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    cgreene: i am generally a pretty mellow game watcher.Not a lot of screaming and yelling.I don’t think that I have jumped up like that during a Knicks game since the ’99 team.  

    Same here! That Chandler dunk startled Lady Jowles.

    A few notes:

    -I get scared when Felton’s off the floor. I keep looking for someone who can run the offense, and I find no solace.

    -Our offense is at its worst when Amar’e does the whole iso thing from 18 feet out.

    -Fields went from looking outmatched to making a series of fantastic plays (the o-rebound tip-in, the pass from and to Chandler). Keeper? I think so.

  50. TheXman

    Amare please do not effing dribble and keep the ball for 5 seconds while everyone is standing around.

  51. Doug

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    -Our offense is at its worst when Amar’e does the whole iso thing from 18 feet out.  

    After this half, let’s give Gallo the ball at the top of the key and build everything off of his dribble drive.

  52. rohank

    Ooh, one more thing: In the first half, JVG was like: “how long would it take new yorkers to love melo? A half. He’d put up 25 in a half. He wakes up scoring 30.”

    meanwhile, GALLO HAS 21 AT THE HALF!

    F*** Melo!

  53. hotdamn

    Feels silly to say it…but Anthony Randolph sizes up well with Bosh. Wish he could turn into a defensive stopper. I’ll keep dreaming.

  54. Silversprings

    Well it started out pretty ugly but Gallo pulled everyone through. Once again, ball movement was key in opening everything up, and the worst plays looked like stat isos when he did not move fast enough. Nice to see Spike Lee getting hyped up wearing a Fields jersey as has been his usual of late.

  55. marxster

    BigBlueAL: Dont think Amar’e will be getting 30 tonight.Hopefully it wont matter.  

    I’ve gotten burnt twice already with a premature no-30-point prognosis.

  56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    rohank: liam neeson looks so awkward  

    A carpenter? Really? Pick a trendier alt-career, Liam. Dude belongs in a Portland co-op. And Dracula? Really? The ’93 one? From what I’ve read, he dropped out of Spielberg’s Lincoln biopic and was replaced by one of the greatest living English-speaking actors, so I’m sure that’s going to change.

  57. Spree8nyk8

    I don’t care at all about the streak anymore just wins, if they wanna double Amare 18 feet away from the basket on the rim side I’m fine with him dumping to a wide open 3pt shooter all night

  58. marxster

    Regardless of what we do with trades, I think it’s safe to say that this team is only going to get better. That means we’ll have a lot of really fun games to look forward to, and you couldn’t ask for more. I say, Donnie Walsh for President!

  59. Droidz1979

    Love JVG back then when he was coaching the Knicks but am beginning to tire on him now.. keeps ranting almost about anything, dude shut up and talk about what’s happening on the game and keep your opinions to yourself. Your not coaching the Knick team ever again!

  60. ltmurray

    Over the past few weeks, my friend and I have had some heated debates over whether or not the Knicks should get melo…

    He wanted to trade for him now, no matter what the cost. I wanted to wait until FA and work with our awesome core of young studs.

    After watching the first half of this game, he conceded defeat. And this guy is stubborn as hell.

  61. John Kenney

    Amar’e is forcing it a little bit… how many turnovers? Also, Mozgov just waved to me during the 2nd half warm-up….. big moment haha. Still think he’s fairly redeemable, against better judgment.

  62. rohank

    marxster: Regardless of what we do with trades, I think it’s safe to say that this team is only going to get better. That means we’ll have a lot of really fun games to look forward to, and you couldn’t ask for more. I say, Donnie Walsh for President!  

    Uh…pretty sure donnie IS the president =P

  63. Droidz1979

    John Kenney: Amar’e is forcing it a little bit… how many turnovers? Also, Mozgov just waved to me during the 2nd half warm-up….. big moment haha. Still think he’s fairly redeemable, against better judgment.  (Quote)

    He only has 2 so far but the absence of ball movement sure is an eyesore.. hope it ends after the half

  64. Spree8nyk8

    dude I mean I know Amar’e is missing like hell from the line right now, but why does he have to get fouled twice to get one foul call and then not get a call the next time he gets fouled? I mean seriously are they only going to call every other time they whack him?

  65. Mulligan

    TheXman: Amare is having a terrible game  

    Not terrible, but definitely not up to his standards. Has plenty of time to redeem himself though.

  66. Spree8nyk8

    I mean the foul they called on Z was not as bad as the first time he whacked him, then he gets hit on the arm causing the ball to go 20 feet high, what are they saying causes that

  67. Frank O.

    What a game so far.
    Been on Capitol Hill all day. Need a good game and overall competence to improve my outlook.

  68. Bruno Almeida

    I hate to say, but Felton has been terrible today.

    Amare hasn’t been great, but Felton has been way worse than what we’re used to seeing.

  69. BigBlueAL

    marxster:
    Have a little faith man.  

    Basketball games are too much of a roller-coaster ride to be commenting frequently during game threads. lol

  70. Frank O.

    The offense isn’t flowing right now.
    The ball isn’t moving. The shooters are missing and the floor isn’t spread.
    That is allowing Miami to sag in on Amare. When he gets the ball, he’s seeing two defenders and when he goes for a shot a third is trying to block his shot. if the shooters don’t hit their shots, Amare is going to be wearing Heat players like and overcoat.

  71. BigBlueAL

    Fuck it I will start the debate, is this a type of game where we could really use Melo since they have completely taken Amar’e out of the game??

  72. cgreene

    We don’t match up well against them. They are better at playing fast than we are. Bottom line. Still think they can lose in the playoffs to a team with a lot of size and depth.

  73. Droidz1979

    Knicks still not getting any respect from the refs.. 2 Heat players were literally riding at the back of Felton on his drive and Anthony almost literally tore Gallo’s arm out there and no foul call unlike the sissy calls they give to James and Wade tsk tsk

  74. Spree8nyk8

    “starting to let a LITTLE too much go”

    boy these guys are fucking brainiacs….that was about 14 missed fouls ago

  75. TheXman

    game over we’ll lose by 30, terrible offense in the middle of the 2nd, just missed jump shot after jump shot, then amare forcing things. we can’t keep the composure against a good team, trying to fight from behind.

  76. BigBlueAL

    Might be time to rest starters rest of the game if they dont get it into single digits soon. Have game in Cleveland tomorrow night which would be really bad to lose.

  77. Spree8nyk8

    TheXman: game over we’ll lose by 30, terrible offense in the middle of the 2nd, just missed jump shot after jump shot, then amare forcing things.we can’t keep the composure against a good team, trying to fight from behind.  

    It’s not terrible offense when you are getting hammered every time down the court and never getting a whistle dude

  78. Spree8nyk8

    TheXman: According to JVG and jackson they are letting them play  

    If that is letting them play then it’s time to just bust out the fists and smack them around on every possession

  79. cgreene

    i would be very quick to yank Amare and Ray if this doesn’t get closer with a trap game looming tomorrow night.

  80. Abasi

    C’mon, Spree, this game is lost because Miami is a far better team – no point in making excuses. The Knicks are doing their best, but they are supposed to lose. Keep it real, please.

  81. Frank O.

    Triple teamed Amare and all the guys were on the wrong side of the court.
    The youth is the biggest issue today. It’s going to happen.

  82. Spree8nyk8

    Abasi: C’mon, Spree, this game is lost because Miami is a far better team – no point in making excuses. The Knicks are doing their best, but they are supposed to lose. Keep it real, please.  

    Keep it real? LOL fuck you dude. If you don’t think the knicks had about 10 bad no calls that quarter than I dont’ know what to think.

  83. BigBlueAL

    Heat are proving why they are the best defensive team in the league. Props to them, gotta give them credit.

  84. Frank O.

    How many times do we have to see a Knicks player knocked down and the a fouls called at the other end.

  85. Abasi

    Spree – no personal insults or foul language will legitimize your fantasies. Keep it real, brother. Don’t make a fool of yourself.

  86. marxster

    Guys we’re all emotional right now. Bottom line is that the Heat are better right now. No need for foul language.

  87. latke

    Frank O.: How many times do we have to see a Knicks player knocked down and the a fouls called at the other end.  

    Yeah, I’ve yet to bitch about fouls this season (well, maybe one other time), but this is pretty ridiculous. Regardless, Amare is playing like he’s more concerned about getting his 30 points than about winning. He’s stopping the ball, and then taking guarded 18 footers on a night when his J has proven to be off.

  88. rama

    Abasi: C’mon, Spree, this game is lost because Miami is a far better team – no point in making excuses. The Knicks are doing their best, but they are supposed to lose. Keep it real, please.  (Quote)

    You’re the one who made it personal, Abasi. Suggest you let it go.

  89. BigBlueAL

    Guys, its OK to just admit the Heat are a much better team than the Knicks right now. Continued whining about the refs is not gonna change that fact. If the game was still close the ref whining would have alot more merit. Hell I complained about the refs in the 1st quarter but right now the Heat are just defending great.

  90. art vandelay

    It is not about free throws…heat clearer is the better team tonight….no way to make excuses…knicks shooting 41% from the field…defense wins important games….they also are defending amare so well because we don’t have a secondary key scoring threat…anyone still think melo wouldn’t help?

  91. Abasi

    Refs miss calls in every game – they are not the reason the Knicks are losing, though. Look, it’s ok to lose this game. Nobody is expecting the Knicks to win against the best teams. We have the best team in the last 10 years, but let’s not lose contact with reality.

  92. Spree8nyk8

    So seriously, you think the Knicks are not getting fouled? I mean you really think that? Because the first half the knicks were right there and what all of a sudden what? They just died? I mean there has been practically no time that they have gone to the basket and NOT gotten fouled IMO. And I don’t think I’m alone in that opinion so if you want to tell EVERYONE sharing that opinion to keep it real then by all means do so, but to anyone that wants to single me out for something that most people are seeing I say fuck you

  93. Thomas B. Post author

    While you guys are arguing over nothing, you are missing some classic Thomas B. in game jokes.

  94. marxster

    Spree8nyk8: So seriously, you think the Knicks are not getting fouled?I mean you really think that?Because the first half the knicks were right there and what all of a sudden what?They just died?I mean there has been practically no time that they have gone to the basket and NOT gotten fouled IMO.And I don’t think I’m alone in that opinion so if you want to tell EVERYONE sharing that opinion to keep it real then by all means do so, but to anyone that wants to single me out for something that most people are seeing I say fuck you  

    We’ve all witnessed the non calls, going on a crazed rant is not going to change that though.

  95. Droidz1979

    Easy guys, were all Knicks fans here and were all feeling the heat with all this BS no calls.. but the heat sure are playing good D too and D-wade and Lebron sure came to play.. heck they can’t seem to miss a shot at the garden. Only Gallo seemed to be a bit effective on Lebron but we have no answer to Wade and they have taken the pick and roll away from the Knicks

  96. BigBlueAL

    Damn, Mike Miller is ready to play again for the Heat. Almost played tonight. Heat beginning to look real scary right now.

  97. Frank O.

    Abasi: Spree – no personal insults or foul language will legitimize your fantasies. Keep it real, brother. Don’t make a fool of yourself.  

    Dude, you’re the one being provocative. The Heat are getting a lot of no calls on the defensive end and touch fouls are getting called on the Knicks. It’s the “star” rule, and Miami is getting the benefit of the doubt. We have seen Felton knocked into the first row with no call and gallo knocked to the ground and no foul, but the ball came back to the other end and the heat get calls.
    It’s quite obvious.
    And if your team is on the shortchanged side, you’re going to get upset.
    Spree wasn’t calling you anything. His curse was about the call not you. He merely asked you if you saw that foul.
    You provoke by then telling him he’s having fantasies. That’s crap.
    And if you keep saying the game is over two or three times, it is just more provocation.
    The Knicks have seen point swings of being up by 12 and down by 12, up by 16 or down by 16. Fast play creates big turn arounds.

  98. Spree8nyk8

    I went on a crazed rant because some jackass personalized an attack towards me for saying that my opinion was not legitimate, when I was not the only person saying this exact same thing.

  99. Thomas B. Post author

    Now, no need to curse at me but the refs are awful tonight. They were awful in the last game too. And I am starting to wonder if the “respect for the game” techs are just Sterns way of taking the focus off an overall terrible group of officials. Kinda like how Stern thinks his nice suits will distract from his ever growing jowls and turkey neck.

  100. Spree8nyk8

    Abasi: Relax, Spree. The Heat is just better tonight. No biggie, really.  

    Dude, do not direct any further posts to me, it’s really simple asshole. Don’t talk to me, i don’t talk to you. Kthx

  101. cgreene

    I am going to be very frustrated if he still has those guys in the game after this time out down 20. Live to play another day. We’ve gotta game tomorrow.

  102. Abasi

    I think we are going to see a lot more of this “bad officiating” when the Knicks play the better teams – time to get a bit used to the ‘injustice’.

  103. hotdamn

    Refs and bad FT shooting killed us tonight. Sweet baby James just got “fouled” by Chandler…but Amar’e gets hacked every time. NBA refs need to be fined for this BS.

  104. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.:
    Well, that kind of negates my comment…;)  

    nah frank, I just don’t want him to direct any of his crap towards me and anyone that wants to write in a public forum that my opinion is stupid is going to hear something about it. I’ve had too bad a week to deal with anything that ridiculous. It’s not going to be tolerated.

  105. cgreene

    Spree – you can’t do that with the language. I agree that Abasi’s tone is rude and condescending but you guys are ruining this post. Don’t want to be a part of people talking this way.

    WHY are those guys still in the game????

  106. rohank

    The heat are better but the refs are downright awful. This looks like a blowout but with consistent foul calls it would at least look respectable.

  107. BigBlueAL

    Its Wade’s turn to start shitting on the Knicks now. lol

    If LeBron and Wade play like this every night, no team in the NBA have a chance against them which was the whole thinking before the season anyway.

  108. Abasi

    Seriously, Spree, do not mix your comments with your personal issues – not a good mix. It’s also unfair to the rest of us, who come here to debate, not insult. Take it easy – there will be other games.

  109. Doug

    BigBlueAL: Its Wade’s turn to start shitting on the Knicks now.lolIf LeBron and Wade play like this every night, no team in the NBA have a chance against them which was the whole thinking before the season anyway.  

    Yes. If both their jumpers are falling, the Heat are the best team in the NBA.

  110. Frank O.

    Thomas B.: Now, no need to curse at me but the refs are awful tonight.They were awful in the last game too.And I am starting to wonder if the “respect for the game” techs are just Sterns way of taking the focus off an overall terrible group of officials. Kinda like how Stern thinks his nice suits will distract from his ever growing jowls and turkey neck.  

    that’s funny

  111. marxster

    I have to say the loss to the Celtics hurt much more than this one. We just got outplayed and we ran out of gas.
    Re-group and beat the Cavs tomorrow.

  112. Abasi

    Lost in all the silly arguments is the fact that the Heat is playing very good basketball. No shame in losing to them

  113. Spree8nyk8

    cgreene: Spree – you can’t do that with the language.I agree that Abasi’s tone is rude and condescending but you guys are ruining this post.Don’t want to be a part of people talking this way.WHY are those guys still in the game????  

    I mean this in the least offensive way to say it.

    You can’t tell other people how to speak. If you don’t like it don’t read it or respond to it. This was a personal argument that I didn’t start. If you have a complaint it is with Abasi and not with me. If he never says anything to me I never say anything to him. If he states in general that he thinks tonite the heat are just the better team, so be it. He is entitled to his opinion as am I. But the first time he tells me that I need to stop fantasizing and keep it real well, now we have to talk. It’s unnecessary but I have never EVER done that to anyone on this board that didn’t do it to me. I’ve disagreed with peoples opinions and stated mine, but I’ve NEVER told someone that their opinion was ridiculous or of lesser value than mine.

  114. art vandelay

    Wade and LBJ do NOT play like THIS every game..that is the point….a) they are extra motivated because of NYC (works to our disadvantage a bit…such is life), b) team plays no defense

  115. BigBlueAL

    Droidz1979:
    I still say his overrated.. love that MSG chant on him  

    Im not his biggest fan either but if you look at his stats this season the only thing really missing is shot attempts. Although he isnt rebounding like he normally does. He has never been a shotblocker.

  116. David Crockett

    Randolph getting some garbage time burn. Perhaps he can replicate his “worst turnover in the history of basketball.”

  117. Spree8nyk8

    Abasi: Seriously, Spree, do not mix your comments with your personal issues – not a good mix. It’s also unfair to the rest of us, who come here to debate, not insult. Take it easy – there will be other games.  

    DUDE HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE DIRECTED TO NOT COMMENT TOWARDS ME? Are you intentionally fueling this? Because I can go all night with this too. If you stop directing posts to me I can stop telling you that you are a douche. kthx

  118. BigBlueAL

    I do think it is time to maybe start getting AR some regular playing time. I mean the bench is giving them nothing right now so might be time to start changing some of the roles of the bench players.

  119. Droidz1979

    Mozgov should have not been floppin.. he should be throwing his weight to every opponent that tries to tresspass the Knicks lane

  120. Thomas B. Post author

    There really is no shame in losing this game. They surprised me. I had no clue the team was this good on defense. We should rename Amar’e from STAT (Standing Tall and Talented) to SATE (Shooting Above the Elbow).
    Bu-dum-ding.

  121. BigBlueAL

    Lets just hope Knicks regroup quickly and not let the Cavs end their 10 game losing streak tomorrow night.

  122. Droidz1979

    Thomas B.: There really is no shame in losing this game. They surprised me. I had no clue the team was this good on defense. We should rename Amar’e from STAT (Standing Tall and Talented) to SATE (Shooting Above the Elbow).Bu-dum-ding.  (Quote)

    At least we still have your comments to savor irregardless of the loss.. better kick the Cavs ass tomorrow, that would be extra sweet

  123. cgreene

    Spree8nyk8:
    I mean this in the least offensive way to say it.You can’t tell other people how to speak.If you don’t like it don’t read it or respond to it. This was a personal argument that I didn’t start.If you have a complaint it is with Abasi and not with me.If he never says anything to me I never say anything to him.If he states in general that he thinks tonite the heat are just the better team, so be it.He is entitled to his opinion as am I.But the first time he tells me that I need to stop fantasizing and keep it real well, now we have to talk.It’s unnecessary but I have never EVER done that to anyone on this board that didn’t do it to me.I’ve disagreed with peoples opinions and stated mine, but I’ve NEVER told someone that their opinion was ridiculous or of lesser value than mine.  

    I understand your point. Just also understand that some people find that language pretty offensive that’s all. Try and keep it mellow. So the guy’s a jerk. Big deal. Let’s talk about basketball. One of the things that I have really enjoyed about this blog as opposed to others is that that type of stuff doesn’t happen and the convo is pretty high standard.

    Not too disheartened by this loss. I believe we will bounce back tomorrow night. Amare won’t let us down.

  124. Spree8nyk8

    It’s just deflating, and I apologize to anyone (other than Abasi, to you i meant everything) that I offended. It just really drives me nuts when anything other than basketball leads to a loss. The first half they played them to a standstill and came back from a deficit and then in the second half it just seemed like early on the heat got away with a few small whacks and said, well if we can do that lets just see how far we can go until we get called, and unfortunately that was pretty far.

    And I’m not saying this is the ONLY reason we lost. The heat played extremely well. But it has to take a ton out of you knowing that everytime you drive to the basket you are going to get hit and no call. I mean they let it go so far that the basically ruined what was a good game. We can’t beat the heat+refs team. That will never happen.

  125. Spree8nyk8

    cgreene:
    I understand your point.Just also understand that some people find that language pretty offensive that’s all.Try and keep it mellow.So the guy’s a jerk.Big deal.Let’s talk about basketball.One of the things that I have really enjoyed about this blog as opposed to others is that that type of stuff doesn’t happen and the convo is pretty high standard.Not too disheartened by this loss.I believe we will bounce back tomorrow night.Amare won’t let us down.  

    I mean I do understand it, but dude I curse. And it’s not to offend you, it’s because it’s the way I talk and I personally find it a little bit silly to let words be offensive just because they are curse words. I am not saying that to belittle you, this is an in general opinion. I say the same thing to my mother honestly. I just disagree with it on principle. I really do not mean it personally, but I’m not going to change the way i speak for anyone.

  126. Thomas B. Post author

    Look some people like to be annoying. The anonymity of the internet encourages some people to not be civil. And since you cant reach them, find them, take them outside or whatever, the only thing you do is be the bigger person. So as hard as it may be, just try to ignore those people who rub you the wrong way. It took me a long time to get that, but now that I do I can really enjoy posting and reading here. I don’t even see the stuff I don’t like anymore.

    You cant change the person on the other side of the keyboard. All you can do is control yourself. Just ignore them. When they see you don’t pay any attention to them, they’ll move on to something else.

  127. Spree8nyk8

    i respect that thomas, i just happen to think i can shit talk with the best of them and I welcome the challenge :P

  128. Spree8nyk8

    If this is truly how we match up with Miami and I’m wrong about how bad the officiating was then we do need to get Melo as fast as possible. No reason to wait.

  129. Abasi

    C’mon, Spree, by the time I asked you to keep it real, you had posted at least 10 times blaming the referees for perceived missed calls. Even now you continue with your completely unjustified anti-ref rant. Yes, they miss calls every night, but it is not like they were blatantly anti-Knicks tonight.

    You were cursing, even asking for the Knicks to start a fight before I asked to keep it real (as in ‘objective’).

    It’s ok to be passionate – it is a very different thing to go to extremes with your rooting – you have clearly crossed a line. Anyone can read the posts to verify what I just wrote.

    Good night!

  130. Thomas B. Post author

    Spree8nyk8: i respect that thomas, i just happen to think i can shit talk with the best of them and I welcome the challenge :P  

    Yes, I learned that about a week ago. :-)

    Responding to a person that ticks you off only shows them that you think they are worth your time and on your level. Why give em the satisfaction of knowing they got your attention.

  131. Doug

    This is a Knicks blog. We do not have to have to keep it objective. If I can’t let my rampant homerism flag fly here, where can I?

    Our obligation is to play nice with each other and that’s it.

  132. Spree8nyk8

    Abasi: C’mon, Spree, by the time I asked you to keep it real, you had posted at least 10 times blaming the referees for perceived missed calls. Even now you continue with your completely unjustified anti-ref rant. Yes, they miss calls every night, but it is not like they were blatantly anti-Knicks tonight.You were cursing, even asking for the Knicks to start a fight before I asked to keep it real (as in ‘objective’).
    It’s ok to be passionate – it is a very different thing to go to extremes with your rooting – you have clearly crossed a line. Anyone can read the posts to verify what I just wrote.Good night!  

    1) I was not the only one here that thought they were blatantly being abused by non calls, it transformed the game whether you believe it or not. Once it got to like 8-10 points it was over. Miami is too good to spot 10 because of a swallowed whistle.

    2) there are times when taking a tech maybe necessary. If the refs are going to let you get abused there maybe a time where you have to show them that it is getting to be too much to where they will at least start to tighten up the game.

    3) I’ve asked you a minimum of 3 times to not direct posts to me, you can verify that if you like. It’s pretty simple, although I am not familiar with your education level (or lack thereof) so maybe it needs extra explanation. Sometimes special needs people require repetition as a means of reinforcement, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But once again I’ll ask that you please do not address me on this forum. You have a right to your opinion and you will never be told by me that you don’t. You can disagree with my opinion by stating your own and you will never hear from me. But when you step across the line and call me by name and ridicule my opinion, then I’m going to treat you like the bitch that you apparently are. Now I truly hope that…

  133. Spree8nyk8

    Thomas B.:
    Yes, I learned that about a week ago. :-)Responding to a person that ticks you off only shows them that you think they are worth your time and on your level.Why give em the satisfaction of knowing they got your attention.  

    yeah Thomas but in all fairness that argument was never serious, that was just funny.

  134. Abasi

    You are clearly stressed out by some personal situation ( you mentioned it in one of your posts), so I’m not taking anything personal, Spree. I prefer to deal with facts and not personal insults or excuses. It’s just a game, when everything is said and done. Follow thomas’s advise and let go.

    No harm done.

  135. Spree8nyk8

    Abasi: You are clearly stressed out by some personal situation ( you mentioned it in one of your posts), so I’m not taking anything personal, Spree. I prefer to deal with facts and not personal insults or excuses. It’s just a game, when everything is said and done. Follow thomas’s advise and let go.No harm done.  

    Once again, idk man I guess GED’s are not what they used to be, you just really don’t understand…..There is no point explaining further, I’ll just continue with the insult rinse repeat method I guess.

  136. Thomas B. Post author

    Spree8nyk8:
    yeah Thomas but in all fairness that argument was never serious, that was just funny.  

    But not everyone is like us. Some people don’t know when to stop being mean and get back to the jokes. Those people you have to ignore.

    I’m going to work on a recap just to end this thread. See you in about an hour unless another writer beats me to it.

  137. Spree8nyk8

    Oh and if from some personal situation you mean the whole part about finding baby Jonathan dead and having to revive him only to have him die four days later situation, yeah that personal situation did cause stress this week. But you go right ahead on with your personal bs, it’s taking my mind off it.

  138. Abasi

    Look, Spree, I didn’t know what sort of personal situation you were talking about. This is too serious to be part of any silly bantering on a sports forum. My apologies to you. May God bless you and your loved ones. Sorry!

  139. Droidz1979

    Abasi: You are clearly stressed out by some personal situation ( you mentioned it in one of your posts), so I’m not taking anything personal, Spree. I prefer to deal with facts and not personal insults or excuses. It’s just a game, when everything is said and done. Follow thomas’s advise and let go.No harm done.  (Quote)

    you also need to let it go dude, it also works both ways.. i know were all frustrated here but venting it against fellow Knicks fans won’t help either. Lets give each other some space before things cool down i guess

  140. Bruno Almeida

    Well, the loss is understandable, Miami is just a superior team and we got killed by the refs today.

    The Knicks need to be prepared for Cleveland now, this has letdown game written all over it, we NEED to beat the Cavs to get back some positive momentum for a very tough stretch ahead.

  141. jon abbey

    I have to say the refs being an issue never even crossed my mind until I read this thread just now (I generally DVR sports these days), just a good old-fashioned asskicking.

    LeBron James continuing to be the second best player I’ve seen in my life is what I came away with, and Wade and Bosh being maybe the most talented 2 and 3 guys ever. Mike Miller could average seven threes a game once he gets healthy.

  142. d-mar

    Just got back from the game and the Garden was just on fire in the first half, felt like the 90′s again. The thing that impressed me most about the Heat was their suffocating D, they frustrated the crap out of STAT and turned away a lot of penetrators. Look, we haven’t played a bad game in how long? Our shots weren’t falling, we suddenly went cold from the FT line and it was just one of those nights We were tied at halftime and just got spanked in the 2nd half. Somehow, we need to regroup and beat an awful Cavs team, this is one of those games we can’t afford to lose even after an emotional night at MSG.

  143. Bruno Almeida

    jon abbey: I have to say the refs being an issue never even crossed my mind until I read this thread just now (I generally DVR sports these days), just a good old-fashioned asskicking.
    LeBron James continuing to be the second best player I’ve seen in my life is what I came away with, and Wade and Bosh being maybe the most talented 2 and 3 guys ever. Mike Miller could average seven threes a game once he gets healthy.  

    I think the refs issue was more apparent on Felton, he was hammered many times on drives and the refs were just ignoring it.

    but we did lose because Miami was a superior team, James is so far ahead of everyone else right now in the NBA that I fear he might be good enough to take the next step and lead this team to a championship.

    I’m not so high on Bosh though :)

  144. Spree8nyk8

    I know i complained excessively about the refs in this game, but I am not suggesting we lost purely because of that. But, in the first half when Miami went up by 13 I did not blame the refs, they got outplayed. But they battled back. The third quarter though they were blatantly hit everytime they went to the rim and were getting very little for it. When they did occasionally get a call they were missing FT’s, this rattled them. It was obvious, they started taking shots they have not been taking over the last 15 games and those weren’t falling either. And that started the domino effect.

    I have no problem whatsoever with them losing to another team. But, I have a huge problem with the refs taking them out of the game by allowing a team to just hit them progressively harder and harder just to find out where exactly the line is. And I think that if that is the type of play they are going to allow then it becomes necessary for a knick player to give a hard flagrant foul so that the refs will start to tighten up the game. It’s disgusting to me for it to come to that, but if that is what has to happen to wake the refs up then that is what has to happen. You can’t sit there though and let them take the game away, not after battling back with grit and working back into the game. I may have said fight, but I didn’t mean fight. I did mean to foul hard enough to change the way the game was officiated though.

  145. Robert Silverman

    I was at the game (article coming soon) and yes, the refs were godawful. I know my track record doesn’t make me the most objective critic, but Spree’s right

  146. Spree8nyk8

    I mean it really comes down to a couple of things, either the refs were really bad and we didn’t really learn much from this game, or Miami is so far ahead of us that we need to gut this team a bit and acquire other pieces like Melo and then some. Because if this team was not killed by the refs then they are quite simply much further than “a solid 5 and a backup pg” away from being on that level. It may very well be time to part with Fields/chandler/curry/randolph to get melo, if they’ll even go for that

  147. GHenman

    This is a young Knicks team that is far exceding expectations at this point. They will continue to improve as the season progresses.

  148. Ben R

    I went back and rewatched the third quarter. It started great we were rolling just like in the first half. But things slowly started to go wrong. We were still moving the ball and getting good shots but things weren’t going well. We missed four out of five free throws (0-3 – Amare, 1-2 – Felton), then we got a couple of really bad non-calls (Gallo’s got slammed twice and Felton got hit twice as well, but one Amare put back), missed three open threes (2 open, 1 open but deep), and Amare missed an easy shot inside. While this was going on the Heat were rolling but teams go through tough streches. At this point we were down about 10. There was lots of time and had we stayed disciplined and ran our offense we could have probably kept it close, we would have gotten a couple of non-calls go our way, we would have hit our shots.

    But we unraveled. The ball stopped moving. We played right into the heats double and triple teams, we became easy to cover and the Heat have one of the best defenses in the league. We can score on a good defense, we did it Wednesday and we did it for about 30 minutes tonight. But not if we stop running our offense.

    Plus both LeBron and Wade were hitting outside shots they don’t reliably make. They were 5-9 from three and LeBron was almost perfect from 25 feet with a hand in his face. They were playing as well as they could play and we hit a wall midway through the third quarter.

    We are young, we are new together, we will have growing pains. This is one of them. Experienced teams don’t wilt when 6 minutes of basketball don’t go their way. We will learn to keep our composure. This was the first time since our losing streak that the team stopped believing. This is a learning opportunity and it happend in a game we probably would have lost anyway.

    The real test is how we do tomorrow. We need to bounce back hard and crush Cleveland. Thats what good teams do.

  149. Brian Cronin

    I think they should have looked for Gallo more often in the second half. Why go away from the guy who just scored 21 in the first half?

    Other than that, eh, Miami is basically playing like everyone feared they would be playing. In fact, their earlier woes actually sort of make them more dangerous, because I think people perhaps are not getting as much up for them (that will change shortly, of course).

  150. tastycakes

    Man, one blow out loss and people are at each other’s throats? Knickerbloggers, please!

    The refs are not to blame tonight — I mean, I was yelling at the TV on occasion, but the Heat just kicked our ass. Too many weapons. When LeBron is nailing jumpers like he was in the 1st and 3rd quarters, you almost can’t win. Most importantly, they did a great job of disrupting our offense in the second half.

    “Must Win” tomorrow.

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