Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, November 24, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Celtics

Some good stuff from ESPN Stats And Information:

  • Both teams carry at least 8-game win streaks into this showdown. Over the last 17 NBA seasons, there have been only four such matchups in the NBA.
  • The Celtics have won five of the last six, 13 of the last 15 and 21 of the last 26 meetings. In the Garnett-Pierce-Allen era, the Celtics are 11-2 against the Knicks. In their 11 wins, the Celtics have outscored the Knicks by 12.3 PPG.
  • The Celtics and Knicks are in the same division. The current divisional alignment has been in place since 2004-05, when the Bobcats joined the NBA. In that time, the Celtics have won the division four times. The Knicks have never finished higher than 3rd in the five-team division.
  • Doc Rivers could win his 300th regular-season game with the Celtics. Only three coaches have won 300 games with the Celtics and only three active coaches have won 300 games with their current team.
  • The Celtics are coming off one of their most dominating defensive performances of the season, if not recent history, Saturday against the Bobcats. Charlotte managed only 62 points, shot 33.8 percent and went 1-11 from 3-point range. The 62 points were the second-fewest scored in Bobcats franchise history. Their lowest total was 59 points, last year, also against the Celtics.
  • If Stoudemire is only around 20 points by the time the game turns to the 4th quarter, don’t count his 30-point streak out. Stoudemire has been able to pour in points in the 4th quarter like clockwork. He leads the NBA in 4th-quarter scoring. Nine times this season he’s scored at least 10 points in that quarter alone – no other player has done it more than six times (Stephen Curry, Dwyane Wade both have six). And Stoudemire has done it in five straight games.
  • And some more from the Elias Sports Bureau, Inc., courtesy of ESPN.

  • The Celtics and Knicks have played more games against each other than any pair of teams in NBA history. No team has more victories against one NBA opponent than Boston has over its New York rival. The Celtics hold a 270–170 advantage in the all-time series.
  • Amar’e Stoudemire scored at least 30 points in each of his last eight games. It’s the longest single-season streak of consecutive 30-point games for any NBA player since Kobe Bryant scored 30 or more points in each of his last nine games of the regular season in 2006.

    Stoudemire also made at least half of his field-goal attempts in each of his last eight games to match the second-longest streaks of consecutive games with at least 30 points and a field-goal percentage of .500 or higher in NBA history. Shaquille O’Neal did that in 11 straight games for the Lakers in the spring of 2001. Wilt Chamberlain (twice), Michael Jordan (twice), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bob McAdoo are the only other players to fashion eight-game streaks.

  • Stoudemire’s current scoring average is the second-highest for any player over his first 25 games with the Knicks. Dick Barnett averaged 28.7 PPG over his first 25 games with New York after being acquired from the Lakers (in exchange for Bob Boozer) on October 14, 1965.
  • Paul Pierce has missed his last 17 three-point field goal attempts (spanning six games). It matches the longest streak of its kind in the league this season (Eric Gordon missed 17 in a row in November) and it’s the longest of Pierce’s NBA career. Before Pierce’s current streak, he had never missed more than 14 straight three-point attempts. (He missed 14 in a row in April 2003.)
  • Tonight will be Nate Robinson’s 50th regular-season game for the Celtics. Robinson will be only the second player to play 50 games for the Celtics after playing at least 300 games for the Knicks. The other was Willie Naulls (New York: 1956–57 to 1962–63; Boston: 1963–64 to 1965–66).
  • 428 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Celtics

    1. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      For the love of Clyde, no more firsties. Just make an observation or speculate about tonight’s game. FOR THE LOVE OF CLYDE.

    2. Frank O.

      I’m very excited about the game tonight, but I was excited about the Jets-Pats game two Mondays ago and that was horrible.

      I have come to expect the Knicks to win. They just have a way of pouring on just when they need to. It will be interesting to see what a great defense does to the Knicks offense.
      I have a feeling the Knicks have a much more athletic team and the Celts will have trouble keep up, but the Celts have so many bigs who can score, the paint could be the Knicks’ Waterloo.

      Time to burn some fouls on Shaq. Mosgov, Turiaf and even Curry could get minutes hacking Shaq…The Celts have been trying to get Shaq off early (probably because his fitness isn’t great late), so expect to see that at the outset.
      KG will probably draw Amare on D. Big baby is going to be a challenge too. ‘
      Who will get Pierce, WC? Probably.
      Look for Gallo to hit some big threes.

      I think our perimeter D is a real strength.

      We’ll see.

    3. tastycakes

      #5, not sure why Denver would do that. If they’re going to dump Chauncey Bloggups and Birdman along with Melo and go full rebuild, they’re going to want picks.

      Also, Chandler is a risky acquisition in any trade because his contract is up end of year. Gallo might be more desireable to other teams as a result.

      I do like the idea of getting Birdman in a Melo trade though.

    4. ltmurray

      Definitely helps that Shaq is out — I’m really hoping to see AR out there tonight to maybe D-up KG. Baptism by fire! Get the kid some minutes! Boston’s size is scary.

    5. Frank O.

      ltmurray: Definitely helps that Shaq is out — I’m really hoping to see AR out there tonight to maybe D-up KG. Baptism by fire! Get the kid some minutes! Boston’s size is scary.  (Quote)

      And you know D’Antoni isn’t going to use AR in such an important game, unless it’s garbage minutes.

    6. Garson

      Contolling Rondo is the key to the game… Last game he went whereever he wanted and set up players at will.

      Felton and Douglass need to body him up and take him out of his game.

      This is also a big test to see how fields covers ray ray all game. If he can shut him down it will say alot for his D.

    7. ltmurray

      Frank O.:
      And you know D’Antoni isn’t going to use AR in such an important game, unless it’s garbage minutes.  

      Good thing they’ve had a couple days of rest (it’s felt like a week since they last played) so our starters should be able to go for a while.

      Boston’s had 3 days off, but they’re just so damned deep that it hardly matters most nights.

    8. Z

      Wish I could watch this one live. It will be hard to shun Knickerblogger for the next few hours, but I’m going to enjoy watching the DVR later tonight (I hope!).

    9. d-mar

      jon abbey: that Pierce streak (0-17 over 6 games from 3 point range) will be over very quickly tonight.
      Bill Simmons with a three-way Melo trade I can get behind:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2aegs5g  

      Was thinking the same thing about Pierce as soon as I read Mike’s analysis – Pierce LOVES playing the Knicks, although we don’t have Q-Bitch mouthing off to motivate him. Agree with Garson that controlling Rondo is the key to the game, maybe hold him to 20 assists lol.

    10. ltmurray

      lol Q-Bitch. What a fatty.

      I know the Knicks weren’t that close till the end of the 1st game against the Celtics, but it’s still pretty encouraging that they only lost by 4 when a.) Rondo had 24 assists b.) Gallo was 0-6 and c.) the Knicks kind of sucked

    11. David Crockett

      ‘Bout to head out to a non-Buffalo Wild Wings eatery to catch this one.

      I don’t have high hopes because I think the Cs match up against us quite well. (I actually think we matchup loads better versus Miami.) I see Rondo dominating Felton on both ends. Ray Ray has played really well, but Rondo seems like a terrible matchup for him.

      Obviously I’d be delighted with a win, but I’m mostly interested in seeing how D’Antoni reads and reacts, mixes and matches in this game. This is not a game the Knicks should win. I’ll be interested to see how D’Antoni approaches the Cs and whether he can keep things from getting out of hand.

    12. Knicks671

      Hey, Knick fan since the early 90s, which is a long time for me since is was born in 87. Anyway, big from Guam (671’s the area code; little island in the Pacific) Anyway, big game today. Kind of a measuring stick for us. Don’t get to see many games but follow them on this blog or espn. Espn’s airing this game so i get to follow live. Very excited.

      – By the way, you guys do a really great job! Been following for awhile now, but haven’t made a comment since what i’m thinking is usually already said…

    13. Spree8nyk8

      An added bonus to winning this game will be that the Knicks would have a winning record in every facet they could have. Home/Road/vs east and west/vs over and under .500/10+ point and < 3 points. Everything they could be judged by.

    14. hoolahoop

      One big question mark going forward into the coming headwind of competition is how Felton runs the offense. Although he has been instrumental in the during this streak, I am not fully confident in him yet.

      Here’s what I see as his weaknesses.
      He takes too many selfish shots. That’s the worst thing a point guard can do. It sets the tone for the team. “Hey, if he’s going to keep shooting like that, I will too”. He has the ball in his hands more than anyone else, therfore must set the tone of intelligent basketball.

      2- Feltons focus needs to be sharper as demonstrated
      – when he throws lazy passes that get stolen.
      – just dribbles the ball and throws a meaningless pass to someone on the perimeter. Of course, that’s okay sometimes, but his job is serve passes on a platter for easy looks. More focus, more intensity are imperative for this aspect of his game.
      3- Felton uses Amare as a crutch. watch how many times he just brings the ball down and gives it to amare. Again, of course, that’s okay – sometimes. But, it would be better if he kept his dribble and distributed the ball more to other guys. It’s the point guards responisibilty to keep everyone involved.

      I think Felton has the skills to be one of the best point guards in the league.
      The knicks have enough pieces working together to beat teams with losing records. Against the top tier teams Felton will have to develop his A game.

    15. Spree8nyk8

      Robert Silverman: Watching on ADTHE – hate the quality of the image, love how they’re playing  

      idk if you have access to espn3.com or not but I would think it would be on there if you do.

    16. tastycakes

      This might be the most excited I’ve been watching the first half of a Knicks game in over a decade.

    17. tastycakes

      Mark Jackson is an idiot, and Jeff Van Gundy will argue any point, which makes them an effective combo. (Though I’d happily replace Jackson with half the color commentators in the league)

    18. Michael Cline

      Stoudamire just seems to be moving so well, maybe even better than when he was at Phoenix. Is it possible his knees have actually gotten better AFTER surgery? Wonder how long that will keep up, because he is really moving quick and smooth right now.

      WTF was that shot/layup by Rondo? As a UK fan, I’m embarrassed

    19. oconnopjNYK

      If Stat goes for 50 or knicks romp the celts how much hype does miami game/rivalry renewed will espn do for friday? Today was outrageous haha

    20. Michael Cline

      I actually agree with Jackson and JVD..the comparison makes no sense at this point in Stoudamire’s career with the Knicks.

    21. d-mar

      We will need someone else to step up on the offensive end in the 2nd half, you know Doc Rivers will make some adjustments on Amare and take the ball out of his hands.

      Love the confidence they’re playing with though.

    22. Droidz1979

      Wish Chandler stop hoisting those ill fated 3’s at times… its frustrating to watch and a typical yes no no yes noooo! moment

    23. art vandelay

      Wouldn’t be shocked if Amare has already scored more 4th quarters points as a Knick than Ewing did!!! let’s hope his knees hold…that is what always torpedoed the knicks come playoff time with Ewing wearing down

    24. Bruno Almeida

      Michael Cline: Stoudamire just seems to be moving so well, maybe even better than when he was at Phoenix. Is it possible his knees have actually gotten better AFTER surgery? Wonder how long that will keep up, because he is really moving quick and smooth right now.WTF was that shot/layup by Rondo? As a UK fan, I’m embarrassed  

      I don’t know, his surgery has been a HUGE success, he had played pretty much every single game for the Suns (until the eye surgery, but that is obviously not related) and has been a beast for us.

    25. Spree8nyk8

      I’ve tried to point this out like 50 times, since his Knee injury FIVE years ago he’s only missed THREE games (except for a stretch of games he missed due to an eye injury). I don’t even know what he missed the 3 games for, but 3 games in five years, his knees are 100%, not 90%, not 80% 100%….

    26. tastycakes

      Agreed, Stoudemire’s energy and athleticism is kind of amazing to watch right now. There’s no question he’s 100% healthy, here’s hoping he stays that way for a long-ass time.

    27. Bruno Almeida

      marxster: Can anyone tell me why Jeff Van Gundy quit?  

      I don’t think there’s a sure answer for that, he said he was very tired and wasn’t able to focus 100% on the job anymore, if I remember well, it was pretty shocking at the time.

    28. art vandelay

      He was burnt out…needed a break…real reason, however, was that there were internal conflicts between him and Knicks management I believe (i.e. Dolan, checketts, etc.)

    29. Brian Cronin

      I think it’s a mix of actual personal issues mixed with the knowledge (from coaching these guys for so long) that the team was about to get bad real quick and he didn’t feel like sticking around for it (plus, he didn’t seem to be a fan of the owner, who decided to get more involved in the 21st Century).

    30. marxster

      Spree8nyk8:
      I think he was stressed out  

      Did it have something to do with Dolan? I’m asking because Alan Hahn just tweeted that Dolan shaking JVG’s hand is a “developing story”.

    31. Michael Cline

      marxster: Can anyone tell me why Jeff Van Gundy quit?  

      I remember him saying something to the effect of “I just don’t have the drive or focus anymore.” I think he wanted to spend more time with his family.

    32. Brian Cronin

      Dolan was definitely a factor, but I don’t think it was that big of a deal. A guy like Van Gundy isn’t going to blatantly stiff a guy like Dolan.

    33. tastycakes

      tastycakes: Agreed, Stoudemire’s energy and athleticism is kind of amazing to watch right now.There’s no question he’s 100% healthy, here’s hoping he stays that way for a long-ass time.  

      I say that and then they show Amar’e with an icepack on his neck. HA

    34. Nick C.

      Wow were the Knicks just on it. Amare has 17, WC the 1 on 4 fast break jumper notwithstanding is still the new and improved version, Felton heeding sage advice penetrates and kicks out to open 3 point shooters. Totally agree with the most psyched in a decade comments. GO KNICKS!

    35. Bruno Almeida

      Ray Allen is absurdly smart, Felton did that backdoor drive and dish to someone in the 3 pt line 3 or 4 times, and the last time Allen recognized it, dropped back and stole the ball.

      just crazy high basketball IQ

    36. Brian Cronin

      I just thought it was hilarious when Gallo just did one of his patented “get fouled” moves, only the refs didn’t call it and you could tell he was like, “Huh? That’s when you call the foul, moron!”

    37. tastycakes

      He said it was his family but Robert is totally right, Jeff bailed before the team could hurt his reputation.

    38. BigBlueAL

      Any time Melo rumors heat up, Gallo plays like crap. I think he does it on purpose to try to persuade Denver not to trade for him. lol

    39. Spree8nyk8

      They are praising Gallo for that assist but the reality is right now Gallo is terrified. He has no confidence right this second.

    40. Spree8nyk8

      lol, those comments about how much they’d give up for Melo shows just how little they know about this team.

    41. tastycakes

      Don’t know where @kevinarnowitz gets these numbers from, but earlier today he said:

      “The NBA’s best finisher at the basket? Wilson Chandler (81.6 %). LeBron clocks in at 70%. Wade at 62.5%”

    42. Robert Silverman

      EVERYONE and a slice of cheese for Melo! Give ‘em our first born child! And a nice gift basket!!! (more scintillating analysis from Jax/JVG)

    43. tastycakes

      BigBlueAL: ESPN ripping the MSG crowd right now for not being into the game.  

      Simmons had a great point in his chat — the game became SUCH a hot ticket that the place is loaded with rick fakers. It’s a shame.

    44. BigBlueAL

      I love JVG but why am I not surprised that he would trade everybody it would take from the team for Melo. lol

    45. KnickInSeattle

      What was the technical Ray Allen shot a while ago that jvg and action jackson totally ignored?

    46. Abasi

      Knicks looking really bad, but Boston is having a bad game, too. Looks like Celtics just taking it easy, to finish strong in the 4th.

    47. Bruno Almeida

      Robert Silverman: Anyone following the Simmons chat? Is it worth checking in on?  

      I’m following it, and I don’t think it’s really worth it, just the usual stuff, not many interesting questions from posters.

      Should we be concerned that Gallo might be too hesitant to be a great player? I mean, that interview that he’s not an all-star, the way he’s playing so far in this game… how can a guy with 91% FT shooting NOT take a technical FT, specially after he missed 3 earlier, as a way to redeem hmself somehow?

    48. Spree8nyk8

      Bruno Almeida:
      I’m following it, and I don’t think it’s really worth it, just the usual stuff, not many interesting questions from posters.Should we be concerned that Gallo might be too hesitant to be a great player? I mean, that interview that he’s not an all-star, the way he’s playing so far in this game… how can a guy with 91% FT shooting NOT take a technical FT, specially after he missed 3 earlier, as a way to redeem hmself somehow?  

      Felton has been shooting the Techs all season, that is not new. Felton is also 90% so it’s not a knock on him.

    49. Bruno Almeida

      @112

      it’s not a knock on Felton, but I feel if Gallo was more confident he’d want to take that himself.

      AWESOME shot by Raymond now, oh my god.

    50. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, had they passed up Gallo to go to, I dunno, Chandler for the T, or whatever, sure, but not when Felton is shooting 90% from FT. Heck, I think Felton is probably ahead of Gallo after his ugly trifecta.

    51. Spree8nyk8

      My point about the FT thing is that Felton is a co captain and a 90% FT shooter, if he wants to take them it’s probably his to take.

    52. Bruno Almeida

      Spree8nyk8: My point about the FT thing is that Felton is a co captain and a 90% FT shooter, if he wants to take them it’s probably his to take.  

      Yeah, I’m probably overreacting, I just would love to see Gallinari be more assertive, I hope it gets better while he progresses.

    53. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      What’s the deal with the Garnett tech? I have no sound (university library), so I couldn’t figure out what he did wrong.

    54. Bruno Almeida

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: What’s the deal with the Garnett tech? I have no sound (university library), so I couldn’t figure out what he did wrong.  

      I think it’s because he caught the ball after he scored, and then gave it to the referee.

      that or a delay of game.

    55. BigBlueAL

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: What’s the deal with the Garnett tech? I have no sound (university library), so I couldn’t figure out what he did wrong.  

      It was a 2nd delay of game penalty I think. Dont think it was a tech on KG.

    56. Spree8nyk8

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: What’s the deal with the Garnett tech? I have no sound (university library), so I couldn’t figure out what he did wrong.  

      The celtics on a whole had been catching the ball out of the basket and throwing it outside to the ref causing a delay in game, they finally started calling it and they did it again after the warning so they got the delay of game. But it has been very deliberate. They know that the knicks will still break after a basket so they have been trying to neutralize that until the refs stopped it. Now it has been stopped.

    57. ess-dog

      Gallo really needs to step it up in the 2nd half. He can’t stay with Pierce at all. Wilson looks like a pretty complete player out there. It would be tough to give him up at this point.

    58. Nick C.

      How bout that bank shot! Late input on JVG but my take was he saw the writing on the wall and cut his losses. Brian summed up my take pretty well.

    59. Bruno Almeida

      Man, I like reading what Simmons writes, but sometimes he’s so full of himself.

      he justified not putting Dwight Howard on a poll for MVP because Orlando has been blown out in some games lately.

      come on, Howard is playing incredibly well while his supporting cast has been absolutely terrible, and the Magic still have the same record as the Bulls and Knicks (he had Rose and Amare on the poll).

      he also put Kevin Garnett as a MVP candidate arguing that the Celtics are playing really well and somebody had to be there…… so why not anyone from the Spurs?

    60. villainx

      Should we be concerned that Gallo might be too hesitant to be a great player?

      Wasn’t Gallo the one who ask to play D on the oppositions best player, or regardless played decent D on said player? Forgot which team but I thought it was this year. And he got praised for it.

    61. Droidz1979

      Celts are tightening their interior D and the Knicks offense is off.. not really a good combination.. Gallo really needs to start hittng those 3’s and not chandler.. heck maybe Shawne Williams would do too

    62. Bruno Almeida

      Droidz1979: Love that Gallo reverse dunk… tentative you say eh  

      lol if he read what I wrote I’ll start bashing him every game, wonderful stretch by Gallinari now!

    63. Spree8nyk8

      I’ve been screaming it for a friggin week and nobody listened. NOBODY KNOWS HOW GOOD THIS TEAM IS RIGHT NOW. Ya’ll hearing me now though!

    64. Bruno Almeida

      lol Simmons got owned by Gallo too, he had wrote:

      “There’s a special glow players get when they realize they’re being iso’ed against Gallanari.”

      and now he’s making jokes about what number he’ll wear in Denver.

    65. Droidz1979

      JVG are making a big deal for Gallo not making the technical FT, who cares as long as the wins am fine with it

    66. Mulligan

      Spree8nyk8: I’ve been screaming it for a friggin week and nobody listened.NOBODY KNOWS HOW GOOD THIS TEAM IS RIGHT NOW.Ya’ll hearing me now though!  

      Uh, dude we’re all Knicks fans. We all want this team to succeed.

    67. d-mar

      Guys, we all need to calm down. It’s WAY early, and our bench has been horrendous. This game will go down to the wire, the C’s are too good defensively and get stops when they need to.

    68. Spree8nyk8

      Mulligan:
      Uh, dude we’re all Knicks fans. We all want this team to succeed.  

      There is no doubt that we all want the team to succeed, but after winning 13/14 and being right near the top of the conference it’s time to raise expectations. This team doesn’t have to be a 7/8 seed. They can play with anyone right now.

    69. Frank O.

      What a fantastic game.
      Seesaw.

      The Knicks aren’t going to blow the Celts out. This is going to be tight to the end.
      STAT

    70. Robert Silverman

      You know, being forced to listen to Jax/JVG yuk it up when there’s a good game going on is REALLY annoying

    71. Frank O.

      I love it. “He’s a knock down three point shooter and he’s huge.”
      Gallo playing an inspired second half.

    72. ess-dog

      LOL I was so ready to trade Gallo after the 1st half. Now I want to buy him a big ass diamond and take him to meet my parents!

    73. BigBlueAL

      Right when I was going to complain about the refs bailing out the Celtics with touch fouls they call that foul on Felton’s 3pter. lol

    74. Mulligan

      I feel like the fact that Pierce was even guarding Felton with 4 seconds to go tells you that the Knicks have gotten into the Celtics heads… seriously? You really need a bigger dude to guard him on a buzzer beating heave?

    75. Frank O.

      Time to finish strong.
      Watch Pierce and Amare duel.

      But they have to really keep an eye on Rondo. Ray needs to play tough

    76. marxster

      Guys, we’ve been leading this game since the beginning against the best defensive team in the league! Go Knicks.

    77. TheRant

      I’m totally excited.

      I think I’ve made it through three quarters without having to hear Mark Jackson say “HAND DOWN, MAN DOWN!!!”

      Can’t wait for the fourth.

    78. ess-dog

      Mulligan: I feel like the fact that Pierce was even guarding Felton with 4 seconds to go tells you that the Knicks have gotten into the Celtics heads…seriously? You really need a bigger dude to guard him on a buzzer beating heave?  

      There’s something about Felton’s girth (pause?) combined with his speed that makes very hard to guard – on the break and now on the p&r.

    79. TheRant

      marxster: Guys, we’ve been leading this game since the beginning against the best defensive team in the league!

      Not actually. They got the very first bucket off of a steal by Pierce.

    80. Frank O.

      That Pierce foul was a clear foul.
      It also struck me as a panic move for a team that is supposed to be the best team in the league right now.
      This is not the celtics kind of game. The Celts don’t give up 90 points by the beginning of the fourth.

      This is the game we wanted

    81. BigBlueAL

      Rumors that Joakim Noah will be out 8-10 weeks after having surgery in next day or so. He is playing tonight though. I think ESPNChicago.com is reporting it.

    82. Bruno Almeida

      BigBlueAL: Rumors that Joakim Noah will be out 8-10 weeks after having surgery in next day or so.He is playing tonight though.I think ESPNChicago.com is reporting it.  

      yeah, ESPN put it up now, tough break for them, nice for us.

      Rondo is down now, terrible scene to watch.

    83. Frank O.

      Mulligan: Crap. 4th qtr is out of control right now  

      Seriously. This has turned into a defensive game.
      Knicks need to lock it down.
      They seem to be getting stops.

      It just feels like they’re getting out of themselves a bit.

    84. Frank O.

      Robinson is scaring me a bit. He’s getting the primal thing going.
      But if I know Nate, he’s going to try and do too much and one of the Knicks shot blockers is going to turn his shit back on him.

    85. Mulligan

      Frank O.: Robinson is scaring me a bit. He’s getting the primal thing going.
      But if I know Nate, he’s going to try and do too much and one of the Knicks shot blockers is going to turn his shit back on him.  

      And just like that…

    86. TheRant

      Frank O.: But if I know Nate, he’s going to try and do too much and one of the Knicks shot blockers is going to turn his shit back on him.

      There you go. Trying too hard. Barely hit metal.

    87. Frank O.

      The Knicks are for real.
      Win or lose, this is a high level of play.
      the last two games have felt like playoffs.
      Tight O.

    88. Mulligan

      Guys, I haven’t been this riveted by a game in a long time… I’m think a pacers or miami playoff series..

    89. Frank O.

      BigBlueAL: Refs are doing their best to keep the Celtics in the game.  

      Yeah. Swallowing the whistle at weird moments and calling stupid things

    90. Frank O.

      This seems dumb to write, but when was the last time a game mattered for the Knicks in mid-December?
      Most of the past 10 years, we’d already be talking about next year, wanton wholesale dumps and barely caring about the outcome as we whined with disgust.

    91. Bruno Almeida

      the color commentator on the brazilian feed is going crazy about Felton right now, seems like he never watched a Knicks game this season lol.

    92. TheRant

      TRULY impressive how much Gallo, Felton, and Ill Will have elevated their play to meet the level of Boston.

      Amare is doing an amazing job, and will hit 40, but we really have a TEAM out there.

    93. Frank O.

      Pulse way up. sweaty palms. restrained cheering because little one and wife are asleep.

      It’s like we have a team again.

    94. NYK Ewing

      This is one of the worst officiated games I’ve seen in a long time, and it was on both sides for the first 3 quarters. The but from 8m left to 2m left in the 4th, the Celtics have had at least four possessions where we either got a no-call or they got a very bad call with no gimme makeup calls in our favor. So far, if we lose, its because of the refs.

    95. Frank O.

      Felton out of control, slow to get back and allen hits wide open three.
      Bad sequence.
      Need to get back

    96. Bruno Almeida

      our defense has been absolutely abused now, Boston is just a veteran team that knows how to close games…

      we’re still learning, but we can still beat them.

    97. Abasi

      Lack of interior defense kills the Knicks – we don ‘t need no freaking cap-paralyzing Melo! We need help on the paint…

    98. BigBlueAL

      Losing at home when the Celtics only played for 1 quarter and were missing both Oneal’s and basically Rondo. Demoralizing.

    99. Bruno Almeida

      that was an incredible heartbreaker, my god, we deserved this game so much.

      we have a great team, we just proved it, these fucking refs kept hosing us all game long and we kept playing hard against an incredible team.

    100. TheRant

      Can we get that shot to count as payback for the Houston shot that was called late in Miami 15 years ago?

      Pretty please?

    101. tastycakes

      BigBlueAL: Paul Pierce continues to shit on the Knicks. Mocking them at half-court.  

      Please, he’s just pumped up. They won a crazy game. He just gave the Knicks a ton of credit in the postgame interview.

    102. TheRant

      Yeah, you have to give it to Pierce. He’s broken so many hearts with so many last second shots in so many major games. The guy is just a killer.

      We’ll get ‘em eventually, though. You can see it. Besides, them Greenies are old.

      Next up!

    103. Bruno Almeida

      Frank O.: The knicks were .01 seconds from being the better team.  

      if it weren’t for the hacks on Amare on those last plays, and for the pathetic calls on Pierce, we would have been.

      so much for the “Pierce gets no respect from refs” bulls***

    104. Frank O.

      Robert Silverman: It’s the non-foul on Stat and all the cheap-o calls on Pierce that gall me.
      Damn  

      yeah, me too.
      But that Felton drive, it looked like a lot of contact. if he were more in control he might have gotten that call.
      But our interior D at the end lost to many O rebounds.
      Garnett got too many balls back.
      Mosgov didn’t get off the bench once tonight.

      We need an athletic center. Period.

      The Knicks, with all their flaws, however, have arrived, folks.
      This is a very good team that took the best team in the NBA right now and just ran.01 out of time.

    105. Abasi

      Once again, lack of defense comes to hurt a D’Antoni team. Knicks need defense on the paint or commitment to NOT play ‘matador defense’, like David Lee. Gallo needs to be more consistent and he really needs to play tough defense on people running to the basket.

    106. tastycakes

      Yeah, Frank. .01 seconds away.

      My heart isn’t broken, it’s filling up with love for this team and the game of basketball. I haven’t enjoyed watching this much maybe ever?? I can’t even remember what it felt like to watch the Spree/Houston Knicks, that was sooo long ago.

      All those dark Layden & Isiah days, brushed away with an exciting, talented team…

      Have to go get Miami on Friday…

    107. Droidz1979

      Hate going to work on a loss like that.. could have won that game no thanks to those late non-calls

    108. d-mar

      I would have bet both my kids’ college funds that Pierce’s shot was going in, I hate the guy, but he is ridiculously clutch.

    109. Frank O.

      Actually, the game was lost when Gallo missed all three free throws in a row.
      That’s the difference…
      It was the most unusual happening in the entire game.
      A 91% FT shooter rims three in a row.

    110. NYK Ewing

      the funny thing is, nowhere in the media tomorrow can they question how poorly officiated that was. had we had one thing go our way, we would’ve won. just even the slightest thing. never mind an intentional foul on felton by allen that went as a no-call. nevermind gallinari getting fouled on a dunk with no call. nevermind every single chippy call boston got in the final three minutes. or the no-call on stoudamire’s last shot.

      no, if they had just reviewed when pierce’s shot went in (.7 or .6 seconds at the latest), we would’ve won. i thought that’s standard procedure for close games, but i guess the nba wanted a different team to win the game than the ones who shouldve

    111. NYK Ewing

      the funny thing is, nowhere in the media tomorrow can they question how poorly officiated that was. had we had one thing go our way, we would’ve won. just even the slightest thing. never mind an intentional foul on felton by allen that went as a no-call. nevermind gallinari getting fouled on a dunk with no call. nevermind every single chippy call boston got in the final three minutes. or the no-call on stoudamire’s last shot.

      no, if they had just reviewed when pierce’s shot went in (.7 or .6 seconds at the latest), we would’ve won. i thought that’s standard procedure for close games, but i guess the nba wanted a different team to win the game than the one that shouldve

    112. david

      Amazing game. Gallo was insane in the 2nd half, Amare was insane all game. The refs hurt us, not by being unfair (I think they were pretty fair, down to the missed calls on Allen and then on Felton) but by letting the game be rough, which benefited them more than us. I was kind of hoping that someone stepped to Pierce for the lap — just got up in his face a little bit.

      Oh, and we could use a good defensive wing off the bench — I hope Azu is that guy. Lost in the great Fields start is that he’s not a great on-ball defender (yet — I think he’ll develop.) Chandler has been pretty good and Gallo hasn’t been bad (good at getting charges, can bother people with his length) but doesn’t have much lateral quickness on d. But we don’t have a guy to guard the Pierces of the league.

    113. Bruno Almeida

      tastycakes: Yeah, Frank..01 seconds away.My heart isn’t broken, it’s filling up with love for this team and the game of basketball.I haven’t enjoyed watching this much maybe ever??I can’t even remember what it felt like to watch the Spree/Houston Knicks, that was sooo long ago.All those dark Layden & Isiah days, brushed away with an exciting, talented team…Have to go get Miami on Friday…  

      if we can play like we just did against Miami I’ll be VERY happy, this team will grow a lot from those losses, that’s a natural step for unproven teams, and Boston is the clear best team in the East and very possibly the best in the NBA right now.

    114. Frank O.

      One last point. In playoff basketball, you need a big man in the paint.
      Amare is great, but he can’t D up consistently against a 7 footer.
      This was a playoff game, and when it came to grind time, the knicks had trouble preventing second chances.\

      This is where D’Antoni needs to adapt. He loves Amare at center because of the mismatch. But he needs a guy in the paint that can dominate the boards. That is where playoff games are won.
      This was a blueprint. Knicks need to examine it.

    115. TheRant

      Frank O.: We need an athletic center. Period.

      Orlando is sucking wind. Can we get them to trade Dwight Howard for Curry and Mozgov? Together they are 14 feet tall and 500 pounds!

    116. marxster

      Wow…don’t know what to feel…

      Certainly proud of how they played, but the years of emotional wins is over. We need to win. However, can’t be mad at how they played. Even JVG said he’s impressed with the quality shots we got against the best defense in the league. So, we must be doing something right.

    117. Nick C.

      Pierce did say they were a factor or something to that effect. A long way from the Isiah days of having opposing benches laughing at them.

    118. Abasi

      Strangely, i don’t feel bad about this loss – the knicks played very well for most of the game. There are a few subtle things the Knicks need to address, one of them being Fields needing to be more agressive on the offensive end.

    119. ltmurray

      Yeah I REALLY thought they should have checked the time left after Pierce’s J. It was completely through the net at 0.6, but I dunno when they’re supposed to stop the clock.

      Man if STAT’s shot had counted…that’s probably the game of the year so far.

    120. ess-dog

      I question not giving Ronny a little more burn. Our bench was non-existent! Guys could’ve used a breather…

    121. Bruno Almeida

      Nick C.: Pierce did say they were a factor or something to that effect. A long way from the Isiah days of having opposing benches laughing at them.  

      I just hope we kick him in the teeth next time we face the Celtics, but it won’t be easy, those guys are an incredible basketball team.

      If we play like this during the stretch of tough games to come, and Gallo plays well for the entire game, and not only the second half, we really might not need Carmelo.

    122. BigBlueAL

      marxster: Wow…don’t know what to feel…Certainly proud of how they played, but the years of emotional wins is over. We need to win. However, can’t be mad at how they played. Even JVG said he’s impressed with the quality shots we got against the best defense in the league. So, we must be doing something right.  

      Yeah I agree. I mean Im done with moral victories yet I am proud of the way they played tonight

      But I cant shake the fact that the Knicks played great at home and still lost to the Celtics who were missing both Oneals and basically Rondo too with the way he played injured the last quarter when the Knicks were outscored by 9.

    123. tastycakes

      344, indeed.

      Look, we’re not ready to beat BOS in a playoff series, that’s just reality.

      They’re also the best defensive team in the league, a team with a core that has played together for years now and won championships, and we put up more points against them than anybody else has this year.

      Depth is a real problem for this team, the bench guys are just not very good. I hope Kelenna comes back and contributes, but if not, we need to move him and / or Eddy Burgers for some real rotation guys. Mozgov isn’t ready and may never be. Toney might be okay as an 8th man. Turiaf hasn’t shown a lot since coming back. Most importantly, they just seem to lose continuity when the starters come off the floor.

    124. Frank O.

      Nick C.: Pierce did say they were a factor or something to that effect. A long way from the Isiah days of having opposing benches laughing at them.  

      He said the Knicks have arrived.

    125. d-mar

      The other thing that makes this loss a little easier to take is WE”RE STILL 16-10! That ain’t bad fellas.

    126. BigBlueAL

      I do fear however a letdown against the Heat and a potential blowout loss to a Heat team that is really on a roll right now. Although they are struggling tonight at home vs the Cavs.

    127. Frank O.

      BigBlueAL:
      Yeah I agree.I mean Im done with moral victories yet I am proud of the way they played tonightBut I cant shake the fact that the Knicks played great at home and still lost to the Celtics who were missing both Oneals and basically Rondo too with the way he played injured the last quarter when the Knicks were outscored by 9.  

      I wouldn’t make so much out of Rondo. He really wasn’t a factor even when he was fine.
      He struggled with the Knicks quickness and shotblockers in the paint.
      He doesn’t have a midrange jumper, so he was pretty marginal.
      After the injury, he seemed much like he did before.

    128. tastycakes

      BigBlueAL:
      Yeah I agree.I mean Im done with moral victories yet I am proud of the way they played tonight  

      It’s gonna take a year or so to get beyond moral victories. I mean, what’s the expectation here? I expect them to make the playoffs easily. I can’t see them disappointing. In my dreams, they win a playoff series, but that’s going to be TOUGH, and really I don’t see it happening yet, so yeah, there’s still room for looking at a loss like this in a positive way.

      When we’re winning 55+ games and regularly challenging the top teams, then expectations can be higher.

      Think about it this way: I think this team has been blown out once this year. Even when the Knicks lose, they compete, and that’s what I really want as a fan: a team that plays like they give a shit.

    129. marxster

      I agree that the bench just isn’t contributing. That brings up this point; if we trade for Melo, we’ll get Amare some breathing minutes, but because we’d have to give up two or three of our main guys, we’ll be even less deep than we are now.

      The ideal scenario would be if we can get Melo after the year, that way the guys on the bench have more time to mature and hopefully contribute next year.

      Also, for us to expect Kelenna to come back and contribute right away is not realistic imo.

    130. BigBlueAL

      d-mar: The other thing that makes this loss a little easier to take is WE”RE STILL 16-10! That ain’t bad fellas.  

      Knicks should have no problem staying at worst as 6th seed in East. Would be great if they could somehow finish 5th but hell I will take 6th seed any day considering our expectations prior to the season.

    131. Frank O.

      God damn I wanted this game!
      Going in I knew it would be a challenge, but they played so well.
      I just had this feeling that Pierce would do something.
      Amare got ripped off on the no call and then fell short on the final three.

      Damn, damn, damn, I wanted that game

    132. latke

      Doug: welp this is the best possible loss we could have had  

      except felton looked like he hurt his back again, and we had four guys play over 40 minutes. At minimum, we need a guy like grant hill or something that D’Antoni will trust enough to leave in even in close games.

    133. BigBlueAL

      After seeing what Pierce and Allen did tonight I fear facing Wade and Lebron on Friday. Especially Wade who has been amazing last week or so.

    134. marxster

      Let’s hope the atmosphere they’ve created in the Garden will carry them through the next game.

      Go Knicks.

    135. Thomas B.

      Just caught up on DVR. Amar’e hits the three I scream and wake up both kids. Don’t care. It is well worth it. Then the replay…shit, I woke up the kids for nothing. I hate Boston so much.

      Okay tell me how Carmelo Anthony keeps us from losing that game. He doesnt. But Tyson Chandler or Marc Gasol or Camby probably can. Hell Anthony Randolph could have helped. We just needed better rebounding and slightly better interior defense.

      I love Amar’e, I really do. But if he would just make real contact on defensive boards we could have stopped a few easy put back. There were two rebounds that he could have kept away from KG in the 4th.

      Where was the Knick bench tonight? What did we play, three reserves and didn’t get much from them.

      Damn, we are so close. We just need a board eating rim protector.

    136. d-mar

      Did seem like Boston got the bounces, that around the rim rebound that fell to KG, and Amare’s shot goes in 99% of the time.

    137. TheXman

      Very highly entertaining game, 4th quarter was almost like an NBA Live video game, with no stops just continual scoring. I think Amare honestly hurt the knicks with his failure to box out. There is an interesting stat going around that Amare is good, but his opposing players produce more, which pretty much negates his spectacular offensive displays.

      This was evident when multiple times KG would either go back up for a tip and put back with Amare just being a spectator. Combined with the out of control Felton play at the end that led to a Ray Allen 3, that pretty much killed us. I think Felton had a couple terrible possessions, in which he just hoisted a 3 without moving the ball around.

    138. rohank

      @342: NYKEwing – I thought we might’ve gotten a couple of tenths of a second back too, but looking at both replays, Pierce’s shot went right down at :00.4 and Amare needed at least :00.7 or :00.8 to make that shot.

      I was debating whether or not tonight was a good outcome or a bad one, b/c earlier i had said that I would be fine with a close loss as long as we played hard and showed we belonged with them. I was kinda bummed tho b/c:

      Reasons to be bummed:
      1) A loss is a loss.
      2) That shot actually went in, and so we were *THIS CLOSE* to actually winning.

      Reasons to not be bummed:
      1) We hung with the best team in the East all the way to the final buzzer. If anything, it was a “statement loss”.

      I hate moral victories, but reading all of your (pl) comments here at the end, I guess it’s not as bad as I thought. 16-10 and a damn good game. And you know what else? They actually made me care tonight. That’s how I know they’re really back (at least in my mind).

    139. jon abbey

      Amare has played some amazing games in his career, but that had to be one of the best regular season ones. I never doubted he was going to hit that 3, even if I sadly knew it was too late as it left hishand. the unfortunate thing is that I don’t think he can repeat that if Shaq and Perkins are around to bang him all game, but he was in genuine MVP form tonight and no one else has the big bodies that Boston does.

      the Knicks can’t keep playing these minutes all season, Felton played 46 and didn’t sit the whole second half, and three other guys were over 40. that’ll take a toll on almost anyone over time, D’Antoni burned out Duhon pretty quickly also (not that he was ever near as good as Felton’s been).

    140. David Crockett

      Great game. A couple thoughts.

      The officiating mattered, but it was more garden variety than bad. Pierce got the calls he always gets, and that’s what makes him so tough to guard. He changes speed and forces contact. On the other hand I didn’t think Ray Allen got calls. I didn’t think Raymond Felton got calls.

      As great as Amare was–and I *really* don’t mean to nitpick–he opted for jumpers late when he should have opted for drawing more contact. Force the officials to make calls.

      Too often when we got stops, and it should be noted that we did get some stops, we gave up 2nd shots. Boston was quicker to 2nd shots on a number of late possessions. We also had some bad luck on some Boston rimshots that bounced right to them. Then, they hit all their free throws.

      We’re still learning late game situations, and it showed at times. By mid-season I think we win the same game by two possessions based solely on fewer goofy turnovers.

      I sound more frustrated than I am. I see where we can get better going forward: turnovers and defensive rebounding.

    141. Thomas B.

      I don’t think we’ll see Kelenna until late January or early February. I had a patella tendon tear and it takes a year or more to get back. Then he’ll need time to get back into the basketball strength.

    142. Bruno Almeida

      tastycakes:
      It’s gonna take a year or so to get beyond moral victories.I mean, what’s the expectation here?I expect them to make the playoffs easily.I can’t see them disappointing.In my dreams, they win a playoff series, but that’s going to be TOUGH, and really I don’t see it happening yet, so yeah, there’s still room for looking at a loss like this in a positive way.When we’re winning 55+ games and regularly challenging the top teams, then expectations can be higher.Think about it this way:I think this team has been blown out once this year.Even when the Knicks lose, they compete, and that’s what I really want as a fan:a team that plays like they give a shit.  

      yeah, every new team has to take that step, look at the Thunder for example, they had many moral wins when they sucked where they showed glimpses of what they could do, but eventually lost…

      we’re at that phase right now, with the distinction that Amare is an estabilished player that has won before, and Durant is still inexperienced, so we might be able to pull some of those wins.

    143. tastycakes

      “I love Amar’e, I really do. But if he would just make real contact on defensive boards we could have stopped a few easy put back. There were two rebounds that he could have kept away from KG in the 4th.”

      Good point, there was a play I mentioned earlier in the thread where he had position on KG and inexplicably went under the basket instead of boxing out, KG got the rebound and put-back.

      But we’re not in that game without him, obviously.

      Good teams sometimes lose close games. The Knicks are really good.

    144. tastycakes

      The schedule coming up is just insane. It will be hard to stay over .500 against the top tier teams, but with so many home games, I am hopeful we can beat a couple of the MIA, OKC, CHI, SAS group.

    145. jon abbey

      “Okay tell me how Carmelo Anthony keeps us from losing that game. He doesnt. ”

      disagree, I think that’s the kind of game he could go for 30+ and hold Pierce down a little more than Gallo did. what if he got Pierce into foul trouble?

      I just don’t want to give up Gallinari for Melo, I’m OK with anyone else (Chandler/Fields specifically). Amare/Melo/Gallinari/Felton would be a great core to build around, I’d like to see where that team was by next year’s playoffs.

    146. latke

      marxster: I agree that the bench just isn’t contributing. That brings up this point; if we trade for Melo, we’ll get Amare some breathing minutes, but because we’d have to give up two or three of our main guys, we’ll be even less deep than we are now.The ideal scenario would be if we can get Melo after the year, that way the guys on the bench have more time to mature and hopefully contribute next year.
      Also, for us to expect Kelenna to come back and contribute right away is not realistic imo.  

      I don’t think DW will do any trade that gives up more than one rotation player. It will be randolph + Gallo + scraps and expirings or randolph + Chandler + scraps and expirings.

      That said, I know a lot of people are saying there’s no way it’s just AR and scraps, but look at what happened last year to the two teams that refused to trade their superstars. The Cavs and Raptors ended up each with two 1st round picks, both likely in the 25-30 range. The suns got one conditional second round pick. A package of douglas and randolph at least nets you a player you can market as a potential all-star. Finding a player with that type of potential in the late first round is like a 1 in 100 shot.

      We have replacements for douglas already on our roster. He can’t play the 1 anyway — D’Antoni gives him like six mpg there — so most of his minutes could go to one of our wings (williams, walker). Rautins can’t do any worse than Douglas has done backing up the 1. We may not be able to address the backup point guard thing in a significant way until the offseason.

    147. latke

      tastycakes: The schedule coming up is just insane.It will be hard to stay over .500 against the top tier teams, but with so many home games, I am hopeful we can beat a couple of the MIA, OKC, CHI, SAS group.  

      Well, Noah will reportedly have thumb surgery and miss 10 weeks. That makes one game quite a bit easier.

    148. Spree8nyk8

      The sixth seed is unacceptable. This team is better than that. They were better than Boston today and if they can get any of the assortment of fouls in the last two mins that were not called to be called they prove it on paper. We can beat that team. And if we can beat that team that is supposed to be the best in the east then I’m not ready to call the Knicks a 6. They are going to beat Miami on friday. They are going to beat a lot of good teams in the next couple weeks. Write it down, put it in your pocket.

    149. TheXman

      I don’t think we should trade for Carmelo at all, I don’t think he solves our problems. He doesn’t rebound and play defense all that well, he’s good at one thing, and that’s scoring. Everyone overvalues scoring, points points points, big deal. We need better interior D and rebounding as Amare can’t box out or play D to be honest.

      Keep the core, develop Randolph, let Curry and Azu’s contracts expire and see what’s out there.

    150. Spree8nyk8

      I also had the same thought about adding a few tenths to the clock after pierces shot. I thought maybe it was me just nitpicking, but I watched it several times and they really should have taken a look and added a little bit.

    151. ess-dog

      also, we hit 40% from 3. and the Celts defend the 3 better than anyone. maybe we should be shooting more from three? esp. gallo and ray. it helps to offset our interior D and rebounding somewhat.
      forget about the east, Boston is the best team in the league and we were right there. On top of the big 3, they are so deep it’s absurd. I’m starting to think Melo may be worth the risk even though I love all our starters. Once Ray/Melo/Stat/one of the 3 kids are in place it will be easier for us to get the Shaq’s of the world to sign for the vet. min. and fill out the bench.
      I’m still shocked both by losing and by how good we are.

    152. TheXman

      ess-dog: also, we hit 40% from 3.and the Celts defend the 3 better than anyone.maybe we should be shooting more from three?esp. gallo and ray.it helps to offset our interior D and rebounding somewhat.
      forget about the east, Boston is the best team in the league and we were right there.On top of the big 3, they are so deep it’s absurd.I’m starting to think Melo may be worth the risk even though I love all our starters.Once Ray/Melo/Stat/one of the 3 kids are in place it will be easier for us to get the Shaq’s of the world to sign for the vet. min. and fill out the bench.
      I’m still shocked both by losing and by how good we are.  

      We shouldn’t shoot more 3’s, Felton and Chandler already shoot too many 3’s. I don’t mind good looks, but multiple times especially Felton hoisted up a 3 on an iso-play. And then it led to a transition bucket by the Celtics, that’s not good basketball.

    153. rama

      tastycakes:
      It’s gonna take a year or so to get beyond moral victories.I mean, what’s the expectation here?I expect them to make the playoffs easily.I can’t see them disappointing…..Think about it this way:I think this team has been blown out once this year.Even when the Knicks lose, they compete, and that’s what I really want as a fan:a team that plays like they give a shit.  

      Exactly. THAT WAS A PHENOMENAL GAME. We didn’t play our best and still almost beat the top team in the East. We didn’t back down.

      To answer whoever it was a few threads ago who mocked for saying it, I’ll say it again:

      YES, I REALLY BELIEVE THE KNICKS ARE A GREAT CENTER AND DECENT BACKUP POINT GUARD AWAY FROM BEING A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.

      Love this team.

    154. rama

      Thomas B, #368 –

      Totally agree on all points. Including that I woke my kids on Amare’s three-pointer!! I was so pumped. We were gypped by the refs and the clock operator. That guy should be fired!

    155. Thomas B.

      jon abbey: “Okay tell me how Carmelo Anthony keeps us from losing that game. He doesnt. ”disagree, I think that’s the kind of game he could go for 30+ and hold Pierce down a little more than Gallo did. what if he got Pierce into foul trouble?
      I just don’t want to give up Gallinari for Melo, I’m OK with anyone else (Chandler/Fields specifically). Amare/Melo/Gallinari/Felton would be a great core to build around, I’d like to see where that team was by next year’s playoffs.  

      Hi Jon, Long time no disagree. :-)

      I don’t mind getting Anthony. I dont want to give up Gallo or Fields for him, but I think a big that boxes out and rebounds is of better use to this team. I cant see Melo stopping Pierce on that drive–God I hate him. But KG just camped out in the paint in the fourth and did what he wanted. Don’t see how Melo helps with that problem.

      Anyway, nice to see you posting again.

    156. BigBlueAL

      Spree, I love your optimism. But again the Knicks probably couldnt have played much better tonight and were at home vs a short-handed Celtics team and still lost.

      This team as constructed right now is a good team but not a 2nd round team most likely unless as I mentioned they finish 5th which is definitely possible and get to play in the 4/5 matchup. The Knick teams from the 90’s that won 50+ games were great teams that would destroy this current Knicks team. There just isnt enough depth right now on this team. But they are young and getting there so dont get me wrong but saying this team should be a Top 4 team in the East is a disrespect to the teams ahead of them right now who all have track records saying they belong up there.

    157. BigBlueAL

      Was I the only one who didnt even react when that 3 from Amar’e went in because it was so obvious it was late??

      Maybe Im being a bit too harsh on this current team because the other day I saw on NBATV Game 7 of the 1994 series vs the Bulls. Im still being too nostalgic to the 90’s teams of my youth :-)

    158. hoolahoop

      That was the best Knick game i saw in a long long long long time. I don’t like moral victories, but I’ll take this one.
      I couldn’t wait for tonights game to see it they were for real. We got our answer.

    159. jon abbey

      rama:
      Exactly.THAT WAS A PHENOMENAL GAME.We didn’t play our best and still almost beat the top team in the East.We didn’t back down.
      To answer whoever it was a few threads ago who mocked for saying it, I’ll say it again:YES, I REALLY BELIEVE THE KNICKS ARE A GREAT CENTER AND DECENT BACKUP POINT GUARD AWAY FROM BEING A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.Love this team.  

      maybe if the ‘GREAT CENTER’ is Dwight Howard, otherwise no. everyone comes at the Celtics hard, this game was a thousand times bigger for NY than it was for Boston. optimism is great, realism is more my speed.

    160. latke

      TheXman: I don’t think we should trade for Carmelo at all, I don’t think he solves our problems.He doesn’t rebound and play defense all that well, he’s good at one thing, and that’s scoring.Everyone overvalues scoring, points points points, big deal.We need better interior D and rebounding as Amare can’t box out or play D to be honest.Keep the core, develop Randolph, let Curry and Azu’s contracts expire and see what’s out there.  

      I honestly have no problem with this strategy. If I was GM and coach, I would be more interested in acquiring Nene than Melo. I would be giving AR minutes when there was a good matchup for him. I am not the GM, and I am not the coach though. What that means is that

      A) barring injuries to two of our bigs AR isn’t going to get a chance
      B) ‘melo is almost definitely going to come here, whether it’s now or during the offseason.

      If we sign him during the offseason, we cannot resign chandler or Turiaf, and we lose access to the MLE. We also may be forced to give something up in the sign and trade. So basically the only question relevant to our current situation is which is more valuable

      A) Chandler, Turiaf, $6 million MLE
      B) Whatever we have to give to Denver to get Carmelo now.

      There’s also the added benefit of having carmelo for an extra half of a season, giving him time to develop chemistry with the rest of the team.

    161. jon abbey

      BigBlueAL: Was I the only one who didnt even react when that 3 from Amar’e went in because it was so obvious it was late??

      same here, it was depressing. I blame HDTV. :)

    162. chrisk06811

      I’m very worried about our depth. Tonight the starters went 36, 42 ,43, 43 and 46 mins. The bench was 3 guys, a total of 31 mins. We need to find bench productivity. If we make this melo deal and we end up giving up 2 guys from our rotation, it will just get worse.

      We’re not going to make it thru 82 games like this.

    163. Thomas B.

      BigBlueAL: Was I the only one who didnt even react when that 3 from Amar’e went in because it was so obvious it was late??

      Well on my 32 inch CRT it looked good.

    164. ess-dog

      btw, not sure if anyone noticed, but Melo had an efficient 35 and 11 last night, beating Mr. Howard and the Magik.

    165. TheRant

      rohank: Reasons to not be bummed:
      1) We hung with the best team in the East all the way to the final buzzer. If anything, it was a “statement loss”.

      I hate moral victories, but reading all of your (pl) comments here at the end, I guess it’s not as bad as I thought. 16-10 and a damn good game. And you know what else? They actually made me care tonight. That’s how I know they’re really back (at least in my mind).

      I think you may be missing the key reason not to be bummed.

      If you’re like me, then a year ago you were simply praying that Donnie, with the patience that the NYC media never give, could move this rebuilding project forward and help us forget a sour decade.

      I think Donnie has proven to us all that he can undo the Thomas era and then some.

      And a month ago I was sure Amar’e would be more exciting than Lee, but still missing D Lee and not expecting in any way what I’m now seeing from Felton, Gallo, or Chandler. And Fields wasn’t on anybody’s radar.

      So at the risk of stating the obvious, we are miles ahead of where we were even opening this season. And all of this with Chandler (age 23), Gallo (age 22), Felton (age 26), and Fields barely six months from living in a Stanford dorm. Amar’e just turned 28, for that matter.

      So my greatest reason for hope is we have a lot of time to develop and our rate of growth is high. We do need an interior and a bench. And teams that make it through the playoffs tend to have more redundancy (Boston was missing two big men tonight, for that matter). But we’re on the way there.

      So it wasn’t a moral victory. But it was a stepping stone.

      Thanks, Donnie.

    166. Frank O.

      jon abbey:
      same here, it was depressing. I blame HDTV. :)  

      I confess. I turned to my son soon as it left his hand and said he didn’t get it off. Fields needed to pass so he could catch facing the basket. Amare had to reach back for it. Soon as I saw that, I knew.

    167. BigBlueAL

      chrisk06811: I’m very worried about our depth.Tonight the starters went 36, 42 ,43, 43 and 46 mins.The bench was 3 guys, a total of 31 mins.We need to find bench productivity.If we make this melo deal and we end up giving up 2 guys from our rotation, it will just get worse.We’re not going to make it thru 82 games like this.  

      The real worrisome part is they just played the easy teams on their schedule and the bench couldnt hang with them, imagine now with all the tough teams coming up. D’Antoni is really going to have no confidence whatsoever with the bench against those teams which will mean even larger minutes for the starters like tonight I fear.

    168. endyendy

      latke:
      I honestly have no problem with this strategy.If I was GM and coach, I would be more interested in acquiring Nene than Melo.I would be giving AR minutes when there was a good matchup for him.I am not the GM, and I am not the coach though.What that means is thatA) barring injuries to two of our bigs AR isn’t going to get a chance
      B) ‘melo is almost definitely going to come here, whether it’s now or during the offseason.If we sign him during the offseason, we cannot resign chandler or Turiaf, and we lose access to the MLE.We also may be forced to give something up in the sign and trade. So basically the only question relevant to our current situation is which is more valuableA) Chandler, Turiaf, $6 million MLE
      B) Whatever we have to give to Denver to get Carmelo now.There’s also the added benefit of having carmelo for an extra half of a season, giving him time to develop chemistry with the rest of the team.  

      While I’m not too interested in the Carmelo debate since Donnie Walsh will do what Donnie Walsh do regardless of what I say, I do think you’re selling him a little short in the rebound department. I’m fairly sure he’s at least top 5 in rebound rate at his position.

    169. art vandelay

      There is a lot of hand-wringing tonight after an ENORMOUSLY tough loss to swallow….but we definitely need to keep things in perspective…this team has not won a playoff game or had a winning season since 2001!!!!!!!!! baby steps, folks….a month ago we were HOPING for 8th seed….barring a catastrophe we have secured most likely at worst a 6th seed…let[s appreciate what this team has been doing in spite of the loss….we were 0.1 sec from beating the reigning conf champ….a win is a win, but despite the many issues the team currently has, at least we can firmly close the book on the Isiah dark ages and finally move forward after all the false starts over hte past 5-6 years!

    170. latke

      chrisk06811: I’m very worried about our depth.Tonight the starters went 36, 42 ,43, 43 and 46 mins.The bench was 3 guys, a total of 31 mins.We need to find bench productivity.If we make this melo deal and we end up giving up 2 guys from our rotation, it will just get worse.We’re not going to make it thru 82 games like this.  

      Disagree because

      1) I don’t think we’ll do a trade that gives up more than one rotation player (Gallo, Fields, or Chandler + AR).

      2) Our role players, be they bench players or be they starters, suffer severely when Amare or Felton is on the bench. This is because they are effective as secondary offensive options, not as primary scorers. Mr. Carmelo Anthony will give us a third player who can play the primary offensive option, allowing our role players to continue being role players even when Amare or Felton is on the bench.

    171. BigBlueAL

      Apparently Felton was pissed after the game, talking about how he is mad and hates to lose and had no comment on the drive where he got raped but got no call before Allen’s 3pter. I guess no moral victories for him, Im loving Felton more and more by the day.

    172. Doug

      Is there a quality defensive C that the Knicks can trade for? Guys like Tyson Chandler and Javale McGee are not available.

    173. latke

      Doug: Is there a quality defensive C that the Knicks can trade for? Guys like Tyson Chandler and Javale McGee are not available.  

      The two most likely are varejao and camby. Varejao is probably gettable now. For Camby, you probably have to wait for Portland to drop completely out of the playoff picture.

      Chris Anderson and Nene could become available depending on how the ‘Melo situation plays out.

      Gortat, I’m sure, is available, although a move for him would probably require a third team.

      Elton Brand was eminently available before this season, and now is probably only for the right deal.

      Dalembert I’m sure is available.

    174. Ben R

      Even if we trade for a good center, he will not start. Amare is rolling without a center and this team is almost unstoppable on offense. I don’t think D’Antoni is going to insert a center into the starting lineup unless that center can hit a three pointer with regularity. Van Gundy even pointed it out that the Knicks have played better with Amare at the five. He needs shooters around him.

      We were not dominated on the glass. Boston got two more offensive rebounds than us. Yeah Garnett got two huge offensive rebounds down the stretch, but one was simply a shot that bounced back to him, that no one could have stopped him from getting, and the other rimmed out weird and Amare went the wrong direction.

      I would love it if we rebounded better and played better defense in the paint but it is not as simple as insert defensive center and we win more. It’s a trade off and if we added an offensively challenged player like Dalembert or Camby then Amare would stop getting those easy rolls to the basket. Maybe the improvement defensively would offset the loss in offense, I don’t know. But it’s not a sure thing.

      Great game, heartbreaking loss. Still these last two games have shown me that our offense is for real. We’re still a second tier team but solidly second tier and with our offense we can win any game.

      Give it time, we are very young, we will continue to improve this year and then next year we can fix some of our depth issues. We will get there, we will learn how to win games like tonight. That was alot of fun.

    175. Resounding Rebounding

      TheXman: Team needs a Goran Dragic or something.  (Quote)

      Doug: Is there a quality defensive C that the Knicks can trade for? Guys like Tyson Chandler and Javale McGee are not available.  (Quote)

      I think quite a few people on this site are fans of the Moneyball book, which of course had to do with baseball, not basketball. Nevertheless, alot of us believe in the same prinicipal of using advanced statistics to analyze and evaulate players, in this case basketball players. But people always make the mistake of assuming Moneyball was about the use of advanced stats, it wasn`t. It was about finding INEFFICIENCIES in the marketplace. Back then teams weren`t using advanced stats to evaluate players, so that gave Oakland an advantage. In my opinion the biggest inefficiency in the NBA today is, with the exception of a few teams, the non use of the DLeague. I know alot of people will disagree. We need a backup PG and a center. The best PG in the DLeague right now is Aaron Miles. The best center in the DLeague…

    176. Resounding Rebounding

      Aaron Miles from those Kansas Jayhawks teams a few years ago that made the Final Four. The numbers he’s putting up in the DLeague right now are excellent. He’s your typical pass-first point
      guard, plays good defense, can get to the rim,he just has no 3 point game whatsoever, but that’s not what we need from our backup PG. He’d fit in perfectly with this team. I want you guys to look up the stats on Aaron Miles and Chris Johnson. Then I want you to look up some scouting reports on them, and explain to me why we shouldn`t sign them both. Just from a cost-benefit analysis,it costs us nothing but some minimum contracts and if they suck, we can just move on. But if they perform for us, which I believe they will, we`ve just filled two of our needs, at least until better players come along. It’s a no risk move. I`m not saying they`ll be stars, just solid role players. I read that the Knicks are looking to trade for Sebastian Telfair. Seriously? He won`t cost us much, but we’d still have to give up
      something in a trade and why do that for a scrub like Telfair? Are your seriously going to suggest to me that Miles couldn`t put up the numbers that Telfair currently is? Just because a players went undrafted, does not mean they are untalented. There have been plenty of players that went undrafted that went on to be productive NBA players. The DLeague has produced several productive NBA players. We don`t have to be in a losing season and suffer a player injury to utilize the DLeague, like last year with Earl Barron, who produced for us by the way. We can utilize the Dleague NOW.

    177. Doug

      I really, really hope that Randolph can be that guy for us. With our record well above .500, next week would be great time to unshackle him from the bench. In conclusion, Free Anthony Randolph. That is all.

    178. david

      The big upcoming game for us is not the Heat, a tough matchup for us, but the roadie at Cleveland the next night. If we can win that one, and split the Chicago/OKC home games (or win both), we’ll be in a good place — 18-12 — going into the florida roadtrip of death. Winning the games against the middle powers in the league at home, and against the bad teams on the road, are what this team needs to do to get the 5th or 6th seed.

    179. phreesh

      As stoked as I am about this game, we have to be honest that it’s an illusion. Boston’s quality bigs were out and the Knicks’ big weakness is down the middle.

      What stopped us from winning? Got to be the defensive side of the ball. We need to rotate to the ball faster. Too many open looks tonight.

      All the same, great game.

    180. Resounding Rebounding

      phreesh: As stoked as I am about this game, we have to be honest that it’s an illusion. Boston’s quality bigs were out and the Knicks’ big weakness is down the middle. What stopped us from winning? Got to be the defensive side of the ball. We need to rotate to the ball faster. Too many open looks tonight. All the same, great game.  (Quote)

      Our defense certainly has to improve but there “bigs were out” is a really crappy excuse and this game wan`t an illusion. Glen “Big Baby” Davis played really well and the guy that they had starting at center whose name I cannot remember played decently. They`ve been playing without Kendrick Perkins all year and there still the best defensive team in the league. As for Shaq, he is nowhere near the defenisve player he once was. In fact, as Amare was scoring at will at certain points in the game, I read a comment on a Celtics blog that said they thought their PnR defense was BETTER with Shaq off the floor.

    181. latke

      Ben R: Even if we trade for a good center, he will not start. Amare is rolling without a center and this team is almost unstoppable on offense. I don’t think D’Antoni is going to insert a center into the starting lineup unless that center can hit a three pointer with regularity.

      Agree. The biggest SL D’Antoni ever played was a frontline of Amare, Diaw and Marion. The benefit of Diaw over a guy like Chandler was that he seemed to have the bulk (about 10 lbs on Chandler) to put up some sort of fight against most centers. Chandler could then do more of the Marion role as a defensive rover that helps out the outmuscled post-defenders. Brad Miller comes to mind as a Diaw type player, although I don’t know if at 34 he can still run up and down the floor in the way that D’Antoni ball requires.

      Resounding Rebounding: it costs us nothing but some minimum contracts

      We don’t have any roster spots. I agree though, especially in regard to taking a flyer on a point guard. A low TO guy who can relieve felton for 10 MPG would be nice, especially if we add Carmelo, meaning we’ll generally always have enough scorers on the floor to not have to worry about the backup PG being a subpar offensive player. One important thing about MDAs system is that it really just falters without a multi-talented pg at the helm. We saw that with duhon (who had a pretty good PNR outlet of his own in Lee). I almost feel like the “leandro barbosa”/”Nate Robinson” tactic is the best one. Barbosa and robinson generally won’t win games for you, but they can score well enough in general to keep you from getting killed while your main guy (nash and now felton) rests.

    182. Resounding Rebounding

      latke: Agree. The biggest SL D’Antoni ever played was a frontline of Amare, Diaw and Marion. The benefit of Diaw over a guy like Chandler was that he seemed to have the bulk (about 10 lbs on Chandler) to put up some sort of fight against most centers. Chandler could then do more of the Marion role as a defensive rover that helps out the outmuscled post-defenders. Brad Miller comes to mind as a Diaw type player, although I don’t know if at 34 he can still run up and down the floor in the way that D’Antoni ball requires.We don’t have any roster spots. I agree though, especially in regard to taking a flyer on a point guard. A low TO guy who can relieve felton for 10 MPG would be nice, especially if we add Carmelo, meaning we’ll generally always have enough scorers on the floor to not have to worry about the backup PG being a subpar offensive player. One important thing about MDAs system is that it really just falters without a multi-talented pg at the helm. We saw that with duhon (who had a pretty good PNR outlet of his own in Lee). I almost feel like the “leandro barbosa”/”Nate Robinson” tactic is the best one. Barbosa and robinson generally won’t win games for you, but they can score well enough in general to keep you from getting killed while your main guy (nash and now felton) rests.  (Quote)

      Take a look at Aaron Miles numbers in the Dleague, tell me what you think. As for roster spots, we could start with cutting Roger Mason.

    183. Ben R

      I agree totally about looking to the d league to find a diamonds in the rough to help fill out the end of our rotation. Honestly Rautins is no better than d league material and is 23. There is a good chance we could find a player with just as much upside that could help the Knicks now.

      Between him and Mason jr we have two players we could cut and easily replace with a number of call ups. Azubuike, Morrow and Reggie Williams were all call ups and are all above average nba players. There is skill down there if you look for it and get a little lucky.

      There is no need for a big splashy move, we are not going to be a top tier team this year no matter what we do. Let’s keep developing and have faith that Donnie will find talent to fix our bench next summer.

      A 4/5 seed and a second round exit would be a homerun for this team and is totally possible. With our offense the threat of hot shooting will potentially make us a nightmare for any team in the playoffs.

    184. Resounding Rebounding

      Ben R: I agree totally about looking to the d league to find a diamonds in the rough to help fill out the end of our rotation. Honestly Rautins is no better than d league material and is 23. There is a good chance we could find a player with just as much upside that could help the Knicks now. Between him and Mason jr we have two players we could cut and easily replace with a number of call ups. Azubuike, Morrow and Reggie Williams were all call ups and are all above average nba players. There is skill down there if you look for it and get a little lucky.There is no need for a big splashy move, we are not going to be a top tier team this year no matter what we do. Let’s keep developing and have faith that Donnie will find talent to fix our bench next summer. A 4/5 seed and a second round exit would be a homerun for this team and is totally possible. With our offense the threat of hot shooting will potentially make us a nightmare for any team in the playoffs.  (Quote)

      Agreed for the most part. I always say, with baseball, just make the playoffs, once you`re in anything can happen. Upsets don`t happen as much in the NBA, but every once in a while they occur, Golden State upsetting Dallas comes to mind. We get in the playoffs, we have a chance. In regards to finding diamonds in the rough, I agree completely. Knick fan favorite John Starks was an undrafted player. I think Aaron Miles would be the best guy out of the DLeague to be a back up PG. What do you think?

    185. Ben R

      Aaron Miles would be an interesting player to look at. I worry about the three point shot, I think in D’Antoni’s system you need an outside shot, but I would still give him a try. He is playing well and has had a solid career in europe over the last 4 years. Might be a nice fit for 12 minutes a game behind felton.

      I would also look at Antonio Daniels, he’s old but for 12 minutes a game it might not matter too much. He was always a good defender and would bring veteran leadership. I worry about if he’s lost a step but I would give him a look as well.

    186. Resounding Rebounding

      Ben R: Aaron Miles would be an interesting player to look at. I worry about the three point shot, I think in D’Antoni’s system you need an outside shot, but I would still give him a try. He is playing well and has had a solid career in europe over the last 4 years. Might be a nice fit for 12 minutes a game behind felton.I would also look at Antonio Daniels, he’s old but for 12 minutes a game it might not matter too much. He was always a good defender and would bring veteran leadership. I worry about if he’s lost a step but I would give him a look as well.  (Quote)

      I`d take a flyer on Aaron Miles and Antonio Danels before I ever traded for Sebastian Telfair. Just saying…

    187. Resounding Rebounding

      Two quick notes on Landry Fields
      -He’s made alot of progress with his perimeter shot. After making two threes tonight his 3pt shooting percentage for the season is is .364 and for the month of December is .444. We`ll have to see over a longer period of time if it holds.

      -I know he’s just a rookie, but he’s got to be more agressive with the ball and try to score. Sometimes he just disappears during the game or he has the ball and tries to make fancy pass resulting in a turnover.

    188. Nick C.

      jon abbey: maybe if the ‘GREAT CENTER’ is Dwight Howard, otherwise no. everyone comes at the Celtics hard, this game was a thousand times bigger for NY than it was for Boston. optimism is great, realism is more my speed.  (Quote)

      Says the man who guaranteed LeBron was coming to NYK and now Melo. Just’ sayin’ Mr. Abbey, that’s all. Glad to see you posting again.

    189. jon abbey

      LeBron should have, everything was set up perfectly and then he just made the wrong decision at the last minute. ask him in 20 years and I bet he’ll agree.

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