Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 15, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Celtics

For your game thoughts.

235 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Celtics

  1. max fisher-cohen

    Hey ya’ll, I’ll be doing a live chat at Knicks Now tonight throughout the game. If anyone feels like stopping by and saying hello, it’s an open invitation.

    note that I made no reference to a certain thing that people in first posts often make reference to. Let’s see if that ends the losing streak.

  2. TheXman

    We’re playing an above .500 team, guaranteed win right here fellas. Knicks will fire up 20 made 3 pointers, in a rout.

  3. jon abbey

    Blake Griffin in Sports Illustrated, answering “Best player you’ve faced this season?”

    BG: “Up close, playing against Carmelo is tough. You know what he’s going to do, and he still does it.”

  4. Spree8nyk8

    Thanks for the links guys, but damn i’m missing lp like hell tonite, one of the links the ads and choppy video is terrible and the other the audio is terrible

  5. SangaD

    If we pick up the pace without turnovers were looking at a ten point lead to end the half Douglas has to lead now.

  6. SeeWhyDee77

    I haven’t been here in a few so i’m pretty sure someone has already said this but…MEMO TO DOLAN AND WALSH: GET BALKMAN BOUGHT OUT AND SIGN BARRON WHILE HE’S STILL AVAILABLE!!!
    OK..now I can turn back 2 the game lol

  7. SangaD

    If they turn it up before we do we’ll never get back in it I get the feeling this is Douglas game to rule.

  8. rohank

    Spree – I’m using Link 4 or 5 of the link I posted. Try them out and see which one is best.

  9. Spree8nyk8

    I just have no explanation for this team right now. Before the trade they hammered anyone under .500 but rarely beat teams over .500, now it seems like they can beat anyone over .500 consistently but can’t beat the under .500 teams. It’s the weirdest thing i’ve ever seen.

  10. Spree8nyk8

    rohank: Spree – I’m using Link 4 or 5 of the link I posted. Try them out and see which one is best.  

    Thanks didn’t even pay attention to that.

  11. Garson

    Spree8nyk8: I just have no explanation for this team right now. Before the trade they hammered anyone under .500 but rarely beat teams over .500, now it seems like they can beat anyone over .500 consistently but can’t beat the under .500 teams. It’s the weirdest thing i’ve ever seen.  (Quote)

    I do… EFFORT!

  12. d-mar

    We need to somehow maintain a decent lead going into the 4th quarter. Once Boston starts revving up the D and clamping down late in games, it’s a whole new ballgame.

  13. totti

    I hope some serenity
    is coming back in this blog.

    Convince yourself: knicks are good and can beat anyone in playoffs,
    even in seven games.

  14. rohank

    @35 – I’m with you – it’s all about effort.

    The annoying thing is that if this team would get up for ALL the games (since it IS their job), they could play this kind of defense every night!

  15. Max

    Very good first half. Ehi, they can play defense too! :-) Great effort from Turi the Energizer Bunny and nobody ever denied that Melo is a superior offensive talent.

  16. Brian Cronin

    GET BALKMAN BOUGHT OUT AND SIGN BARRON WHILE HE’S STILL AVAILABLE!!!

    Balkman’s contract is guaranteed through 2013. Buying him out would lock his salary into the cap. That’s ungood.

  17. art vandelay

    Yes, I think buying out balkman and locking in the $1.6 mill would be one of hte dumbest things they could do…I hope they can jettison him for a second round pick or something draft night.

  18. art vandelay

    why is it that some nights turiaf looks like a world beater and others like he might dying trying to make it back up court? perplexing as the team’s overall inconsistency…

  19. art vandelay

    Is it just me or does STAT sometimes fight his own teammates for rebounds better than he does the opposing team?

  20. Doug

    art vandelay: why is it that some nights turiaf looks like a world beater and others like he might dying trying to make it back up court? perplexing as the team’s overall inconsistency…  

    All that wild energy and spazzing about isn’t good for his joints.

  21. d-mar

    For one night at least, we can have no complaints about the refs – I’m sure Heinsohn is having a stroke on the Celtics broadcast.

  22. massive

    And Jared Jeffries takes out the only likeable starter on the Celtics (I like Shaq and Jeff Green, too). Good job.

  23. rohank

    @54 – LOL: Then we’ll finally be rid of having to listen to him on some online streams

  24. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin:
    Balkman’s contract is guaranteed through 2013. Buying him out would lock his salary into the cap. That’s ungood.  

    Double-plus ungood, to be exact

  25. KnickInSeattle

    Great sequence with Melo and Stat on the bench.
    Everybody’s bringing it tonight.

  26. Doug

    “And now the Knicks will pay for their transgressions” is one of my favorite Clyde-isms.

  27. art vandelay

    How to relinquish half of an 11 point lead in 10 seconds by your NEW YORK KNICKS (with special thanks to Jarred Jeffries)!

  28. Kikuchiyo

    Somewhere, Doug Collins, he of the “let’s see how they finish the quarter” fascination, is writhing in pain.

    [But, of course, he enjoyed this too.]

  29. cgreene

    art vandelay: How to relinquish half of an 11 point lead in 10 seconds by your NEW YORK KNICKS (with special thanks to Jarred Jeffries)!  

    Let’s get something straight, Jeffries was not to blame there. That whole sequence was Douglas’s fault. Terrible pass beyond the 3 pt line to Jeffries with no spacing. Like Clyde says, it’s always the passer’s fault.

  30. art vandelay

    I am all for giving this kid Devin Brown or whatever his name is some run over Jeffries at this point…I actually thought JJ might add some value when they reacquired him but he is arguably the worst offensive player in the league and for every one good defensive play he nullifies it with a dumb foul or horrible pass/turnover.

  31. Brian Cronin

    That’s up there with one of the worst endings to a quarter (not counting the 4th) that the Knicks have had.

  32. Michael Cline

    Either the livestream I’m watching is glitchy, or Big Baby just had the clearest travel of the decade. Did he not just jump straight up, land with both fit, take a skip, and then drop the pass off?

  33. d-mar

    That 3 by Billups biggest shot of the game so far – I can’t come up with a nickname for him though?

  34. art vandelay

    I won[t say always…but it is true when TD is on we certainly TEND to win (see Chicago, Milwaukee, Memphis, etc.).

  35. massive

    citizen: Does Billups lead the league in shooting fouls drawn beyond the 3-pt line?  

    I think the career leader is Jamal Crawford.

  36. citizen

    They should probably sit Melo for a few minutes since he’s prone to commit silly fouls (and not just on the defensive end)

  37. art vandelay

    if I know, and you know…and EVERYONE knows that pierce is going to shoot that pull up 3…how is it that no knick knew it?

  38. Owen

    Would it be off topic to point out Ty Lawson has scored 17 points for the Nuggets tonight in 13.5 minutes on 5 shots and 5 free throws?

    Actually excited here, a close game against a quality opponent that I get to watch…

  39. David Crockett

    I really wish MD’A didn’t spend so much time arguing with the refs. How can you make your players play on when you won’t?

  40. Michael Cline

    David Crockett: They are allowing the Celts a TON of contact on screen rolls  

    I was just about to say the same thing. There are a lot of moving picks and half-picks being set right now

  41. Michael Cline

    Paul Pierce just absolutely mauled Billups on the block, then pushed off to get the high lob. This is just ridiculously inconsistent on both ends right now

  42. TheXman

    amaing all the loose balls go to celtics, that one rondo play when he went after the ball lol

    and anthony, i guess big baby is too big

  43. Frank O.

    Alan Hahn from FB:

    The Knicks Fix
    Doc just said it to his bench: “There’s no way Amar’e Stoudemire should drive with Jared Jeffries on the floor.”

    Damning

  44. Spree8nyk8

    it’s always the same, refs just bail out boston in the fourth every time we play them

  45. dsulz

    Never could have predicted that they would squander their 14 pt half time lead. . .be shocked if we won this one.

  46. Michael Cline

    TheXman: anthony goes for the steal, wow if he’s out of the year maybe knicks will play better  

    Ok, just leave this forum

  47. TheXman

    terrible offensive sequence, just terrible

    I’m happy with the 7th seed vs. Chicago. Please just get the 7th seed.

  48. BigBlueAL

    Got home in time to watch the 4th quarter, this is more pathetic and sad than the Heat meltdowns down the stretch in their losing streak.

  49. CapB

    yeah they’re playing alot better without Melo in that sequence. Id much rather have Stoudemire shoot an air ball, and Douglas shoot an air ball, and Billups give the ball to Ray Allen

  50. dsulz

    and they don’t even make it a game down the stretch. Fuck this team. Give me guys I can root for.

  51. Max

    Playoffs basketball boys and they killed us in the fourth quarter. Pierce and Garnett destroyed Melo and Stoudamire, and for the third consecutive game we played terribly down the stretch, the ball simply stop moving… But at least we lost with a real team…

  52. art vandelay

    Way to close, guys! how many games have they blown with 4th quarter leads….philly in philly, indiana….here…the first game against boston at the garden…pathetic!

  53. Owen

    “@124 I’d rather lose than have KG on my team.”

    I wouldn’t. Say what you will about his behavior on court and how annoying it is, the guy is still one of the very best players in the NBA. He is a lot better than Melo and Amare.

  54. ess-dog

    CapB: yeah they’re playing alot better without Melo in that sequence.Id much rather have Stoudemire shoot an air ball, and Douglas shoot an air ball, and Billups give the ball to Ray Allen  

    Sarcasm. Well played.

  55. art vandelay

    this is why boston can never be counted out….they just KNOW how to win…their execution down the stretch is flawless….frankly the knicks looked like a team of chickens with their heads cut off in the last 7 minutes in contrast.

  56. TheXman

    Always an almost against the celtics, i hope the knicks plahyt eh c’s in the first round and just get swept

  57. Nick C.

    Ugh. Whoever talked about Boston revving up the D in the 4th was onto something. This just sucks. Change the names and we’ve seen this too many times for too many years, just like yesterday.

  58. Frank O.

    celtics really ratcheted up the D at the end, extending it out to 25 feet and pressuring the ball.

  59. d-mar

    That was like men vs. boys at the end. The Knicks didn’t get one good shot off in the final 2 minutes, they just panicked and hoisted up air balls. I really can live with losing to Boston, they’re one of the NBA’s best teams, but the way we completely fell apart at the end was sickening to watch.

  60. cgreene

    Here’s the story with Billups and why he can’t be our PG next season if MDA is coach. He can’t get around the big man that shows on the screen and roll and penetrate and then find the open man. It’s the key to the play. His shot is great. He’s pretty smart with the ball although not lately. But he can’t break down the D and pass. If he could do that then Amare and Melo would have a lot more room to operate because the D would have to collapse. I am more and more convinced that they should not pickup his option or do so and use him in a trade.

  61. Son of Tastycakes

    Walsh walked out with celtics. I think he wanted to be associated with a real team.

    Btw, Stephen A. knows shit about what the Knicks got to have.

  62. Doug

    dsulz: and they don’t even make it a game down the stretch.Fuck this team.Give me guys I can root for.  

    Brooklyn is two years away. Or there’s Denver. If not, we root for the laundry. Deal with it.

  63. JK47

    It’s one thing to get beat by a better team. I get that. But this was some of the stupidest basketball I’ve seen in quite some time. I’m taking a break for a while.

  64. art vandelay

    have the knicks completed stopped running PNR with stoudemire now that billups is here? the knock on felton was that he didn’t have it down, but he became pretty proficient at it and now they have completely abandoned STAT’s pet move for whatever dumb reason.

  65. Doug

    TheXman: Always an almost against the celtics, i hope the knicks plahyt eh c’s in the first round and just get swept  

    And then?

  66. David Crockett

    Barry killing the Knicks on effort. I didn’t see the whole game, but THAT didn’t seem to be the problem in the 4th quarter. The Knicks played poorly, but they played hard.

    There are things not to like about NY, but a lot of these talking heads already have the post-game speech done before the game is over.

  67. itztiz

    We can’t score when it counts. Its not on defense its on discipline and shot selection. The Celtics figured us out and that was that.

  68. ess-dog

    TD led the team with 4 assists? That’s a problem.
    And I can’t believe we wasted the one game out of every 12 that Turiaf showed up!

  69. art vandelay

    saddest thing would be if they don[t even have a winning season to break the 9 year drought….as a 35-35 team now that is definitely a possibility!

  70. David Crockett

    Frank O.: celtics really ratcheted up the D at the end, extending it out to 25 feet and pressuring the ball.  

    They know what they’re going to do on every possession in every situation.

  71. massive

    Chauncey Billups has a propensity for making extremely stupid passes now that he is a Knick. He makes one big play for us, then a bigger play for the Celtics. I’m losing all faith in this guy.

    The effort was there from both Amar’e and Melo tonight (see Amar’e diving for the ball and Melo getting cut open going after that inbound pass). We have to beat Orlando on Wednesday now.

  72. KnickInSeattle

    @148. Yep, he’s a better player.
    But he’s not someone I could ever root for.
    Now, Fields and Dougland ad Touriaf I can root for.

  73. d-mar

    Man, it seems like Boston’s been finishing games like that against us for the last 20 years. For once I want to see Pierce walking off the Garden floor without a smirk on his face.

  74. max fisher-cohen

    i think you’re right about Billups, cgreene. The only way we get this team to optimum offensive efficiency is if we get the offense recentered around amare pick and roll. Part of the equation could be having Carmelo as the dribbler in the pnr, but for whatever reason the knicks have only tried that a couple of times.

    I feel like we’re going to have to deal with this more freelancing style offense for the next season and a half though, as the knicks will probably prefer to have Billups’ expiring deal next year over any free agent.

  75. Spree8nyk8

    Owen: “@124 I’d rather lose than have KG on my team.”I wouldn’t. Say what you will about his behavior on court and how annoying it is, the guy is still one of the very best players in the NBA. He is a lot better than Melo and Amare.  

    You are fucking insane….

  76. jon abbey

    since the trade, NY has played three games versus potential playoff opponents: Miami, Orlando and tonight. NY has been ahead for a shocking amount of those three games. Clyde (who had maybe the best game of his career behind the mike, just killing it all night) said early on, “they need to play 48 minutes, not 42 or 46.” they couldn’t do it tonight, but a lot to build on, I think.

    welcome back to the team, Rony! also, alltime record for guys with bloody faces?

  77. BigBlueAL

    I will say one thing though, that no-call on Amar’e when Big Baby fouled the crap out of him which lead to a fastbreak layup to tie the game was a huge call.

  78. Doug

    jon abbey: Clyde (who had maybe the best game of his career behind the mike, just killing it all night) said early on, “they need to play 48 minutes, not 42 or 46.” they couldn’t do it tonight, but a lot to build on, I think.

    A hard-fought loss to the Celtics could be a turning point to the season? Sounds familiar.

  79. Spree8nyk8

    There has got to be a better knick forum than this. Last season when the team sucked it was never this bad. I have no idea why about half of you are even fans. You make me fucking sick.

  80. d-mar

    I’ll tell you one thing, I want absolutely no part of Boston in the first round of the playoffs, that would be a guaranteed 4 game sweep the way they execute down the stretch. I’ll take my chances with the Bulls, their offense in crunch time is basically give the ball to Rose and let him go 1 on 5. They’d still beat us, but we might be able to grab a couple of games.

  81. The Infamous Cdiggy

    @168: I’m sure many folk said the same thing about some of our beloved 90′s Knicks (i.e. Oakley, Mason, maybe Starks). Trust me: you’d root for him (Garnett) if he was helping us win ballgames.

  82. Doug

    Spree8nyk8: There has got to be a better knick forum than this.Last season when the team sucked it was never this bad.I have no idea why about half of you are even fans.You make me fucking sick.  

    The Posting and Toasting crowd is only half as smart but they’re twice as levelheaded as the group we have here. Seriously, an SB Nation blog is outdoing you guys in the perspective department.

  83. Ben R

    We talk about effort and while I do think the Knicks gave effort tonight not all effort is created equal. If you watched Boston on the defensive end for the last half of the fourth quarter they were fighting over every screen running at every shot it was truly a thing of beauty.

    The only Knick that gives that level of effort on the defensive end with any consistancy is Douglas. Everyone else it’s kind of token effort, but not that little bit of extra hustle.

    Spree – I know you might not agree but saying that Garnett is better than Amare is not a outlandish proposal. No reason to go crazy over it. Defense is just as important as offense and Garnett is so much better defensively than Amare you cannot even compare them. Offensviely Amare is alot better but when looked as a whole I think Garnett and Amare are pretty close and down the stretch or in the playoffs I would take Garnett everytime.

  84. Thomas B.

    After Billups’ 4 point play, the team scored only 4 points in remaining 7 minutes. How does that happen?

  85. BigBlueAL

    I blame myself for thinking after this team started off 6-3 after the trade (going 4-1 w/o Billups) that they could do some serious damage in the playoffs this season. Hell even Hollinger had been saying that the goal of the Top 3 in the East was to avoid the Knicks in the 1st round.

    People complained just as much about the team before the trade which I always thought was dumb. Its a bit of revisionist history with alot of the people here saying that they missed the old team because it was OK when they lost and stuff because they certainly didnt have that same perspective with that group when they started 3-8 and during their horrible stretch in January. Hell they were 26-26 right before the All-Star break and people were saying they wont even make the playoffs.

    I enjoyed the old team because I didnt have great expectations this year and wouldve been fine winning 39-40 games and just making the playoffs and hopefully not get swept (although again many here who now claim they felt the same way is total b.s. because I spent many times having to defend the old Knicks). The trade though did ramp up expectations for this season. Not championship level expectations mind you but enough so that I couldnt wait for the playoffs to start. Now Im beginning to dread the playoffs because a sweep or even just winning 1 game will be a major letdown and really ratchet up the criticism and maybe even lead to some horrible decisions like letting Walsh go and who knows what else Dolan might come up with if he is just as disappointed with the team as most of us are right now.

  86. SeeWhyDee77

    Brian Cronin:
    Balkman’s contract is guaranteed through 2013. Buying him out would lock his salary into the cap. That’s ungood.  

    I know..if we’re gonna pay someone 2 mil..we might as well spend that on Barron(indirectly) since Rey doesn’t play..hey look at that..i’m ubiquitous with the rhyming like Clyde lmao..Rey doesn’t play…Bottom line is we need Barron and as putrid as JJ has been, I’d rather keep him over Balkman. Of course if we didn’t have 2 move Mosgov, that wouldn’t be an issue. 2 mil..that is roughly what Balkman gets rite? Sorry..I haven’t done the research. But if he makes close to what I think he makes, how bad would it really be to buy him out? Coach doesn’t trust him the way he trusts JJ so there’s problee no chance of convincing him have JJ dumped and give minutes to Balkman. Also, Derrick Brown appears to be a decent defender which would make Balkman even more expendable. Plus he’s better on offense than both JJ and Balkman and physically stronger as well. At this point I’m not as worried about burnin a few mil of the cap as I am getting the right players into the rotation. As I said in an earlier thread..the role playing pieces are there..we jus need a 7 footer. The roster is far from finished, but why waste a spot on Balkman at this point?

  87. Nick C.

    Spree8nyk8: There has got to be a better knick forum than this.Last season when the team sucked it was never this bad.I have no idea why about half of you are even fans.You make me fucking sick.  
    Spree I know you care, but this ID ironic considering you bailed on the team around the Kings Phoenix losses.

  88. BigBlueAL

    Thomas B.: After Billups’ 4 point play, the team scored only 4 points in remaining 7 minutes.How does that happen?  

    Funny thing was I thought that play had stemmed the Celtics run and that the Knicks were about to grab hold of the game again.

  89. TheXman

    Thomas B.: After Billups’ 4 point play, the team scored only 4 points in remaining 7 minutes.How does that happen?  

    The only way we were scoring was getting a call and going to the foul line or making a miracle shot. Before that, TD made a miracle 3, it wasn’t sustainable. Melo as an “offensive” player didn’t bring it, nor did Amare. Basically a PNR would start and nthing would amount then they would just run time off the clock and then desperation shot.

  90. BigBlueAL

    Nick C.:
      

    LOL yeah not Spree’s best time. Actually in fairness what happened was the 16-9 start got to his head a bit and his expectations for that group got out of whack similar to myself I guess with the current team after the 6-3 start after the trade.

    But yeah thats my point though with so many people now romanticizing that team, like I mentioned there were countless times during January and even right before the All-Star break when many here were saying that team might not even make the playoffs and they certainly werent OK with most of their losses like people are now saying they were compared to the current team when they lose.

  91. max fisher-cohen

    Thomas B.: After Billups’ 4 point play, the team scored only 4 points in remaining 7 minutes.How does that happen?  

    Didn’t you see the first quarter last night?

    The Celtics are just good, and are guards couldn’t handle the defense. We hardly got to run our plays because by the time we got started there were 8 seconds on the shot clock. Also, Boston made shots — tough ones — and we stopped getting TOs, so there went all the easy offense.

    Our seeding really doesn’t matter anymore IMO. Barring a complete collapse by ATL, we aren’t going to get the 5th seed, so it’s 6 or 7, and while I probably prefer the Heat to the Celtics, it’s hard to predict which of them will be 2nd and which will be 3rd. Of course, it’d be nice to get some wins for the confidence level.

  92. Owen

    Spree – Keep it civil.

    BigBlue – I don’t really think it’s revisionist history. I think any number of people on this board were pretty clear about the fact that this trade wasn’t going to make us much better, while pretty much completely destroying our cap flexibility. And I think while most of us enjoyed the old Knicks we recognized the significant flaws in their games. There was at least a sense of possibility watching them though and a liberating sense we had broken free of the mentality of the Isiah era. And now everyone feels like we are back at square one, once again assembling a squad of overpaid, overrated scorers.

  93. Jake S.

    The difference, Spree, is that the Knicks were supposed to suck last season. People are entitled to feel a little frustrated after a decade of this crap. What do you want people to write, exactly? Turiaf looked great tonight! Douglas is really coming along! Spare us your self-righteous indignation.

  94. hoolahoop

    BigBlueAL: Now Im beginning to dread the playoffs because a sweep or even just winning 1 game will be a major letdown and really ratchet up the criticism and maybe even lead to some horrible decisions like letting Walsh go and who knows what else Dolan might come up with if he is just as disappointed with the team as most of us are right now.

    I’m afraid if the knicks do well in the playoffs (win three games in the first round) Dolan and company will think everything is dandy and sit tight, without the extra hunger to make the team better.
    We can’t win either way.
    Being a knick fan is a curse. We all must have done something terribly bad in a previous life.

  95. hoolahoop

    Owen, well said in 189.

    Spree – focus on the knicks. It’s juvenile to personally attack other forum members for any reason, and ruins the forum.

  96. BigBlueAL

    Owen: Spree – Keep it civil.
    BigBlue – I don’t really think it’s revisionist history. I think any number of people on this board were pretty clear about the fact that this trade wasn’t going to make us much better, while pretty much completely destroying our cap flexibility. And I think while most of us enjoyed the old Knicks we recognized the significant flaws in their games. There was at least a sense of possibility watching them though and a liberatingsense we had broken free of the mentality of the Isiah era. And now everyone feels like we are back at square one, once again assembling a squad of overpaid, overrated scorers.  

    I dont mean about the trade, the majority here were against the trade and even I was when it came to the amount they gave up no doubt.

    What I mean is all of a sudden now almost everybody is talking about missing the old team and how fun they were to watch. Really. As I said go back to all the game threads in January and even the beginning of February.

  97. BigBlueAL

    hoolahoop:
    I’m afraid if the knicks do well in the playoffs (win three games in the first round) Dolan and company will think everything is dandy and sit tight, without the extra hunger to make the team better.
    We can’t win either way.
    Being a knick fan is a curse. We all must have done something terribly bad in a previous life.  

    Trust me Donnie Walsh and D’Antoni knows everything with this roster is not fine and dandy. But like you I definitely fear what Dolan might do. I assume if they dont embarrass themselves in the playoffs that Dolan wont feel the need to get rid of Walsh.

    But if Isiah truly does have his ear if they get whooped maybe he tells Dolan the team is too good to be this bad, you need me back there or god knows who else to run and coach the team.

  98. Jake S.

    I think you hit on something, Al. This team looks so thoroughly boring and soulless it’s making us all collectively nostalgic for an experience we never actually had.

  99. Doug

    hoolahoop: Being a knick fan is a curse. We all must have done something terribly bad in a previous life.  

    For me it’s to make up for being a Yankees fan.

  100. Jake S.

    Not that Dolan has ever been one to adhere to reason or logic, but don’t the Knicks’ failures of late fortify Donnie’s job security? Everyone knows that he never wanted to make this deal.

  101. Jake S.

    Amen Doug. Rooting for the Knicks and Mets is enough to make you swear off sports completely.

  102. hoolahoop

    I used to wonder how fans of teams that hadn’t won in decades could be so passionate for their team – then I looked in the mirror. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  103. TheXman

    Don’t the nuggets have to learn during games? They didn’t have a training camp either. NO way I see the knicks put on a rout on the Raptors the way the Nuggets did.

    They couldn’t beat the cavs in two games nor the pacers. I don’t want to watch this team any more. At least last year, they sucked, but there was a sense of optimism that the team is going to get new players and be better. This team just plain sucks, they don’t play hard and they’re not going to get better. This roster is insufficient, we should have never done the trade.

  104. dsulz

    Spree8nyk8: Clyde (who had maybe the best game of his career behind the mike, just killing it all night) said early on, “they need to play 48 minutes, not 42 or 46.”

    You could have said the same thing about any of the Knicks teams over the last ten years.

    Spree8nyk8: There has got to be a better knick forum than this.Last season when the team sucked it was never this bad.I have no idea why about half of you are even fans.You make me fucking sick.  

    Spree8nyk8: There has got to be a better knick forum than this. Last season when the team sucked it was never this bad. I have no idea why about half of you are even fans. You make me fucking sick.

    Sorry to be bitter, Spree. There’s a big difference between being a .500 team that’s young and has lots of cap space, and a .500 team that’s maxing out the cap (read: overpaid). I’ve been a Knicks fan for over 20 years, and it’s precisely b/c I suffered with them through the last ten years that I’m bitter. This season we had a decent team and cap room to make moves. There was hope. That’s really the difference. We blew up a chance to watch that grow, for what? To be a poor man’s version of the fucking Miami Heat? I guess for Yankee fans it’s easier to buy into this. I’m a Mets fan, so I won’t be surprised if the Knicks have an epic collapse down the stretch and don’t win another game this season.

  105. BigBlueAL

    Jake S.: I think you hit on something, Al. This team looks so thoroughly boring and soulless it’s making us all collectively nostalgic for an experience we never actually had.  

    LOL

    Thats all Im saying. Be frustrated with the current team cause lord knows I am. But stop romanticizing the earlier group because the complaining and trolling during their rough stretches were as loud if not louder than it is now.

  106. BigBlueAL

    TheXman: Don’t the nuggets have to learn during games?They didn’t have a training camp either.NO way I see the knicks put on a rout on the Raptors the way the Nuggets did.They couldn’t beat the cavs in two games nor the pacers.I don’t want to watch this team any more.At least last year, they sucked, but there was a sense of optimism that the team is going to get new players and be better.This team just plain sucks, they don’t play hard and they’re not going to get better.This roster is insufficient, we should have never done the trade.  

    The Knicks have wins of 22, 21 and 19 since the trade. In fact even after tonight they still have a positive point differential since the trade.

  107. TheXman

    Also many people would agree that Chauncey is the better PG just because he’s a better shooter. But in MDA’s system, Felton may be the better PG who could at least run some semblance of a PNR. He could also beat people off the dribbleBillups gives up on PNR time and time again, and it’s just running it to waste time on the clock.

    dsulz: poor man’s version of the fucking Miami Heat? I guess for Yankee fans it’s easier to buy into this. I’m a Mets fan, so I won’t be surprised if the Knicks have an epic collapse down the stretch and don’t win another game this season. dsulz

    (Quote)

    Good point on at least a .500 team with cap space and young. This is what we have to deal with in the next 5 years. We won’t uprade the PG position because of no cap space. I don’t care any more, I would laugh if there was an epic collapse and the Bucks sneak in due to some tie-breaker.

  108. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Please don’t forget that we could have (realistically) had a starting five of:

    Lawson
    Fields
    Gallo
    Blair
    Chandler/Nene/Gortat

    Which could easily go 41-41 in this league.

  109. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Also, Spree:

    This is precisely the moment when I must chime in and say, “U MAD.”

  110. BigBlueAL

    dsulz:
    You could have said the same thing about any of the Knicks teams over the last ten years.Sorry to be bitter, Spree.There’s a big difference between being a .500 team that’s young and has lots of cap space, and a .500 team that’s maxing out the cap (read: overpaid).I’ve been a Knicks fan for over 20 years, and it’s precisely b/c I suffered with them through the last ten years that I’m bitter.This season we had a decent team and cap room to make moves.There was hope.That’s really the difference.We blew up a chance to watch that grow, for what?To be a poor man’s version of the fucking Miami Heat? I guess for Yankee fans it’s easier to buy into this.I’m a Mets fan, so I won’t be surprised if the Knicks have an epic collapse down the stretch and don’t win another game this season.  

    Ive mentioned this in the past but being a Yankees fan sure helps me get through the tough times as a Knicks fan lol.

  111. Owen

    BigBlue – I don’t think anyone thought they were a great team. And I don’t quite know how to quantify how fun they were to watch. We may be looking back through rose colored spectacles. For my own part, I can honestly say that after years of Marbury, Curry, Randolph, Harrington, Hughes, and Crawford, I was just happy to have a few guys on the team, who, if they were mediocre, were at least not outrageously overpaid to be so.

    These days it’s a lot of deja vu.

    I think even when they were playing badly we give the Knicks credit for being young, cheap, and hard working. And to my eye certainly they played a relatively more attractive and selfless brand of basketball than Melo’s pound-the-ball-into-the-floor-12-times-and-shoot routine.

  112. JK47

    @198

    Try Knicks/Mets/Raiders. That’s my lot in life. Imagine that: Suffering through Isiah Thomas, Omar Minaya, Jeff Wilpon, Al Davis and James Dolan. Eddy Curry and Jamarcus Russell. Oliver Perez and Stephon Marbury.

    GAAAAAH, IT’S ALL TOO MUCH I CAN’T TAKE ANYMORE!!!!

  113. CRJoe

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Please don’t forget that we could have (realistically) had a starting five of:
    Lawson
    Fields
    Gallo
    Blair
    Chandler/Nene/Gortat Which could easily go 41-41 in this league.  

    That roster would never get more than 35 wins, you’re basically describing the Pacers:
    A young & speedy scoring point guard. (Collison)
    A rebounding low scoring wingman. (George/Rush/Jones)
    A sharpshooting uni dimensional scorer. (Granger)
    An efficient rebounder with some scoring skills. (Hansbrough)
    And a really tall guy who ocasionally balls. (Hibbert)

    TheXman:
    I don’t care any more, I would laugh if there was an epic collapse and the Bucks sneak in due to some tie-breaker.  

    I would feel embarrassed to give up the 7th seed to the Pacers, and I would be just the kind of “kick in the balls” that would plummet our morale and frustrate the team into a first round sweep.

  114. TheXman

    BigBlueAL:
    The Knicks have wins of 22, 21 and 19 since the trade.In fact even after tonight they still have a positive point differential since the trade.  

    Well I hear excuses all the time. I don’t hear the nuggers throwing excuses, they have to integrate 3 key rotation players in their lineup. Getting rid of Melo and allocating those minutes and shots to Nene/Affalo/Lawson ended up being the best thing for that team.

  115. Owen

    THCJ –

    Lawson
    Fields
    Gallo
    Blair
    Chandler/Nene/Gortat

    That’s the other thing. It’s hard not to be caustic when you consider the moves we could have made. Especially Lawson. We needed a point guard, and if there has ever been a can’t miss point guard in the past 5 years it was him. He literally blew college basketball apart. People were actually dumb enough to think Jonny Flynn was an NBA point guard. He actually dropped to us. And we didn’t draft him.

    It’s really painful to think about, a pain only slightly lessened by the fact I have him as a ridiculously cheap keeper in two fantasy leagues.

    And for the record, CRJoe – I would say that is easily a better team than our team right now in my book with cap space left over to sign a quality player or two. Not that the Knicks would ever put together that cost effective of a team. Just go to the play index at basketball reference and run some comps for the guys you mentioned and see how comparable they are. Collison really can’t hold a candle to Lawson. And when Hibbert posts a ts% of 63% the earth will start rotating the other direction.

  116. BigBlueAL

    Owen: BigBlue – I don’t think anyone thought they were a great team. And I don’t quite know how to quantify how fun they were to watch. We may be looking back through rose colored spectacles. For my own part,I can honestly say that after years of Marbury, Curry, Randolph, Harrington, Hughes, and Crawford, I was just happy to have a few guys on the team, who, if they were mediocre, were at least not outrageously overpaid to be so.These days it’s a lot of deja vu.I think even when they were playing badly we give the Knicks credit for being young, cheap, and hard working. And to my eye certainly they played a relatively more attractive and selfless brand of basketball than Melo’s pound-the-ball-into-the-floor-12-times-and-shoot routine.  

    Hey like I said I agree with you about the old team 100%. But like I said there were plenty of people who ripped that team and took plenty of shots at Chandler and Gallo that were unwarranted at the time. Like I said the comments were about the same as they are now but all of a sudden reading this site you would think that 100% of the site loved the old team which is plain old bogus.

    I still hold out hope that this team will turn it around and give us a fun playoff series although obviously I am not as confident about that happening as I was 2 weeks ago today when they killed Utah at home.

  117. BigBlueAL

    Owen: THCJ –
    Lawson
    Fields
    Gallo
    Blair
    Chandler/Nene/GortatThat’s the other thing. It’s hard not to be caustic when you consider the moves we could have made. Especially Lawson. We needed a point guard, and if there has ever been a can’t miss point guard in the past 5 years it was him. He literally blew college basketball apart. People were actually dumb enough to think Jonny Flynn was an NBA point guard. He actually dropped to us. And we didn’t draft him.
    It’s really painful to think about, a pain only slightly lessened by the fact I have him as a ridiculously cheap keeper in two fantasy leagues.  

    Gotta admit Lawson really is looking great right now. I still dont buy the Blair hype and the criticism of the Knicks for passing on him but passing on Lawson is definitely a big miss on the Knicks part.

  118. TheXman

    BigBlueAL: at the time. Like I said the comments were about the same as they are now but all of a sudden reading this site you would think that 100% of the site loved the old team which is plain old bogus.

    I still hold out hope that this team will turn it around and give us a fun playoff series although obviously I am n

    I think ppl took shots at Gallo/Chandler but at least they were young and played hard. You don’t know what you lost until it’s gone.

    I didn’t see too many “frustrated” plays by those two, they just played bball and tried to take care of business. They weren’t diva players. When I saw melo didn’t get a call on the other end, then just fouled Jeff Green due to not getting his way, I was like, fuck this is what we gave up our team for.

  119. lookin4ewingstarksmason

    after playing basketball on different levels, and coaching a couple of years I have learned that motivating a team to play is just as important as preperation. the fact that while playing inferior teams the knicks simply lay down and while playing elite teams theyre motivated reveals a thing or two about the coaches ability to lead. we are not just talking coordinating offense….the ability to motivate and lead seems absent. the knicks obviously motivate themselves when the opposing teams are the big dogs.

  120. dsulz

    BigBlueAL: But stop romanticizing the earlier group because the complaining and trolling during their rough stretches were as loud if not louder than it is now.

    Hah, I never commented on here until after we got Melo. I can say that I’m not looking back to the other group with rose-tinted glasses. We were a .500 team. That’s still–as everyone pointed out then–a hell of a lot better than what we were these last 10 years. I was quite happy with that. I felt like given the guys who we had, we were actually doing pretty good. More than that, I felt like we had the potential to do MUCH better if our interior presence on defense (and defensive rebounding) was improved with a Sam Dalenbert or Javalle McGee-type of player. I still feel this way, but as a fan I feel really duped–although I was never really on board with the trade to being with–not to get all politicaly, but it’s weirdly similar to how I felt about the Younger Bush getting into Iraq and then there being no WMDs. The reasoning for both decisions sounded pretty suspect but in both cases there were Very Serious People who told you that you were crazy if you questioned the logic of it. And, of course, James Dolan and Dubya also have a number of striking similarities–their silver-spoon upbringings, general obliviousness to public shame, and impulsively blundering leadership styles. It makes perfect sense: the New York Knicks are doomed to endlessly relive the George W Bush administration. :)

  121. bobneptune

    it is really quite simple… as knick fans we have been played by dolan. he forced this trade so he could raise ticket prices by 49% before next season. had he waited til the summer, he wouldn’t have been able to do that.

    he figured he could mimic lebron , wade and bosh with carmelo , amare and whomever else he could bring in. however, he neglected to understand what makes the heat troika work is both lebron and wade are both willing and able passers as well as being the 2 best open court players in the game.

    melo’s style of taking too many long, contested 2′s and pounding the ball and spinning when double teamed will never be compatible with amar’e’s skill set.

    rather than moving felton, gallo, chandler, randolph , mosgov, curry and 3 picks for melo and cap cloggers like balkman, they would have been far better off trading for a javale mcgee or a dalembert.

    now the knicks are older and have less flexibility and zero bench. and , of course, they still have a black hole in the middle.

    but….. the marketing department has a bonanza.

  122. BigBlueAL

    Isola tweeted that Shawne Williams said after the game he is playing with a broken right ring finger that also has some ligament damage.

  123. bobneptune

    BigBlueAL: Isola tweeted that Shawne Williams said after the game he is playing with a broken right ring finger that also has some ligament damage.  

    well…. since we now have such great depth, our first forward off the bench and 3 point shooting specialist playing with a broken finger with torn ligaments should be much of a problem…….

  124. Z

    Owen: Spree – Keep it civil.  

    Seriously!

    You come here and complain that this forum sucks. That there must be a better one out there. I implore you to find it and go there. You can’t come here and insult the long time posters here. I hope Mike considers a ban, seriously, whenever anybody comes here and acts like a jerk to any of the old guard.

    We already lost one long time poster here when a bunch of new people came here and held an impromptu referendum and drove Ted away. This blog has been the worse for it.

    If you want a cheerleading site, go find one. If you want a fight site, go start one somewhere else. This site has been here for years before you showed up. It was great then– the best thing about the Knicks by a long shot. Now I visit the site less and less because all these new voices are obnoxiously drowning out the well established voices that I used to love to come and read here.

    (this hurts me way more than the losing… I’ve been used to that for a long time)

    :(

  125. Tufumbo

    i started reading this site during the free agency tornado that was summer 2010 and i enjoyed reading the well thought out and expressed basketball opinions that i found here. there were many insightful and knowledgable posts made. the best part of this site was getting to have an informed basketball discussion with fellow knicks fans.

    this is just my observation but it seems like too often people take comments made after a game and try to make them into larger picture things. whats wrong with bitching about the lack of defense or hustle or whatever else plagues this flawed team when they lose to cavs for example? these are often just statements of fact after many of these games. why cant we as knicks fans bitch about a bad loss/cheer about a good win together the night after it happens and then just move on to the next game. as knicks fans were all in this together and we need to stick together in the face of 49% ticket price increases and morons like SAS. just the thoughts of a new guy

  126. tenebrous

    Just saw the replay:

    They’re playing much better. Td is not a facilitator. Andy is probably much better at that. When Pierce was out why didn’t MD put dbrown in to guard Green? Orlando (and even making the playoffs for that matter) can be a long game.

    “Pierce has not been a factor, he’s gotta get it going” – Clyde

    Now why would Clyde say something like that? He always says stuff like this exactly when the Knicks need some one to stepup and/or are struggling etc etc etc. Does Clyde think a Boston fan is listening to him? Does Clyde think he is being nationally brodcasted? I don’t get Clyde. Having said that I think Clyde can make a good/better than good coach. Having said that MD would never even think about Pierce in this way. Conclusion: Clyde is bored Further Thought: Clyde if you’re bored, do something else. I’m watching (hopefully a win) Zip it. The fans or better yet subscribers to msg (cablevision) should have a choice in how they hear the game. Give me stats and tell me what you did in certain situations when you played not what the other team needs to do. Clyde please take the floor.

  127. hoolahoop

    Tufumbo: whats wrong with bitching about the lack of defense or hustle or whatever else plagues this flawed team when they lose to cavs for example? these are often just statements of fact after many of these games. why cant we as knicks fans bitch about a bad loss/cheer about a good win together the night after it happens and then just move on to the next game. as knicks fans were all in this together and we need to stick together in the face of 49% ticket price increases and morons like SAS. just the thoughts of a new guy

    Speaking for myself – you can! Feel free to say what you want. If people can’t express their frustration on a fan forum, I wouldn’t want to be part of it.

    There are a few rude posters here who seem to think this should be a cheerleading forum, and personally attack others they don’t agree with. Ignore them.

  128. jon abbey

    Owen: That’s the other thing. It’s hard not to be caustic when you consider the moves we could have made. Especially Lawson. We needed a point guard, and if there has ever been a can’t miss point guard in the past 5 years it was him. He literally blew college basketball apart. People were actually dumb enough to think Jonny Flynn was an NBA point guard. He actually dropped to us. And we didn’t draft him.
      

    this is why I blame Walsh for us not getting LeBron, or at least making a more serious run at him. Walsh HAD TO make literally every move perfectly before the June 2010 FA period perfectly, he had to destroy the 2009 draft, it got handed to him on a silver platter (for once), and he whiffed pretty badly.

  129. MSGTDenver

    I have to agree you guys got duked. Melo should be booed everytime he is on the floor. The Knicks keep falling. Don’t blame anyone except Melo. He has been riding the coat tails of K-Mart, J.R Smith and even King George here in Denver. Melo does not play hard at all. People who are from New York are not lazy. Melo is lazy. I think you fans of the Knicks should boo Melo everytime he come out on the court. Let the G.M, the owner know that you have been riped off. Now you know how us fans here in Denver felt about Melo

  130. CapB

    MSGTDenver: I have to agree you guys got duked. Melo should be booed everytime he is on the floor. The Knicks keep falling. Don’t blame anyone except Melo. He has been riding the coat tails of K-Mart, J.R Smith and even King George here in Denver. Melo does not play hard at all. People who are from New York are not lazy. Melo is lazy. I think you fans of the Knicks should boo Melo everytime he come out on the court. Let the G.M, the owner know that you have been riped off. Now you know how us fans here in Denver felt about Melo  

    I mean, did you even watch the game last night? Effort had nothing to do with it. THere was alot of effort, alot of intensity. The TEAM collapsed in the 4th quarter

  131. CapB

    Owen: THCJ –
    Lawson
    Fields
    Gallo
    Blair
    Chandler/Nene/GortatThat’s the other thing. It’s hard not to be caustic when you consider the moves we could have made. Especially Lawson. We needed a point guard, and if there has ever been a can’t miss point guard in the past 5 years it was him. He literally blew college basketball apart. People were actually dumb enough to think Jonny Flynn was an NBA point guard. He actually dropped to us. And we didn’t draft him.

      

    what are you talking about? 1. Flynn didnt drop to us. He got picked before the Knicks were up. So did Rubio and so did Curry. The Knicks panicked and took Jordan Hill.

    2. How would have drafting Johnny Flynn changed Lebron’s mind?

  132. CapB

    Ah, well that makes more sense. They werent the only team to pass on him though, wasnt like he was picked a spot or two after like Jennings was.

  133. Mike Kurylo Post author

    Owen: I think even when they were playing badly we give the Knicks credit for being young, cheap, and hard working. And to my eye certainly they played a relatively more attractive and selfless brand of basketball than Melo’s pound-the-ball-into-the-floor-12-times-and-shoot routine.

    I think you’re going overboard here. Melo holds the ball for 6 seconds, then it’s one or two dribbles tops before he takes the shot.

  134. Mike Kurylo Post author

    BigBlueAL: Hey like I said I agree with you about the old team 100%. But like I said there were plenty of people who ripped that team and took plenty of shots at Chandler and Gallo that were unwarranted at the time. Like I said the comments were about the same as they are now but all of a sudden reading this site you would think that 100% of the site loved the old team which is plain old bogus.

    Probably true. But there was a sizable contingent that was pretty happy with that team, and the first round drubbing they would have inevitably received.

    The rest are experiencing, what was that term again…oh yeah, buyers remorse. If only some hacky wanna-be beat writer could have predicted such a thing.

  135. Spree8nyk8

    dsulz:
    You could have said the same thing about any of the Knicks teams over the last ten years.Sorry to be bitter, Spree.There’s a big difference between being a .500 team that’s young and has lots of cap space, and a .500 team that’s maxing out the cap (read: overpaid).I’ve been a Knicks fan for over 20 years, and it’s precisely b/c I suffered with them through the last ten years that I’m bitter.This season we had a decent team and cap room to make moves.There was hope.That’s really the difference.We blew up a chance to watch that grow, for what?To be a poor man’s version of the fucking Miami Heat? I guess for Yankee fans it’s easier to buy into this.I’m a Mets fan, so I won’t be surprised if the Knicks have an epic collapse down the stretch and don’t win another game this season.  

    The problem isn’t that you are bitter it’s that you are stupid and don’t actually understand the situation. They aren’t capped out like you think they are. They could not pick up Billups contract and have money to spend this offseason or they could keep billups and have money next season. Either way they still have options. Options that most of you clowns seem to brush aside just because the team didn’t hang onto a couple of guys that were never going to bring us anywhere.

    It’s called rebuilding, it doesn’t happen in 1 year. You guys look at me as if somehow I’m the person with the exaggerated perspective but I never expected them to go far this year melo or not. But I promise you they are gonna go further down the road because of this trade.

  136. Spree8nyk8

    Z:
    Seriously!
    You come here and complain that this forum sucks. That there must be a better one out there. I implore you to find it and go there. You can’t come here and insult the long time posters here. I hope Mike considers a ban, seriously, whenever anybody comes here and acts like a jerk to any of the old guard.We already lost one long time poster here when a bunch of new people came here and held an impromptu referendum and drove Ted away. This blog has been the worse for it.If you want a cheerleading site, go find one. If you want a fight site, go start one somewhere else. This site has been here for years before you showed up. It was great then– the best thing about the Knicks by a long shot. Now I visit the site less and less because all these new voices are obnoxiously drowning out the well established voices that I used to love to come and read here.(this hurts me way more than the losing… I’ve been used to that for a long time):(  

    How long do i have to post here before I’m not a new voice, cause it’s my 3rd season. Guess that’s not enough in your book, but I really don’t care about your book sir.

  137. hoolahoop

    Spree8nyk8: The problem isn’t that you are bitter it’s that you are stupid and don’t actually understand the situation.

    Have you read all the posts in this thread? You’re alienating a lot of people here.
    Love melo, hate melo, it doesn’t matter. Grow up and stop attacking people who post here.

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