Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, November 1, 2014

243 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Spurs

  1. BigBlueAL

    Great quote by Pop when asked about Chandler not starting tonight for the Knicks: “Mike’s always been a nice guy.” lol

    I actually like the move and it is interesting when asked about why Chandler and not Gallo to the bench D’Antoni basically said it was a mental/comfort thing. Obviously he knows it wont affect Chandler but could hurt Gallo’s confidence if he sees coming off the bench as a negative.

  2. latke

    The problem is Turiaf was playing a lot better during that earlier stretch when he was starting. He has been very up and down in the last ten games or so. Regardless, Chandler will still end up getting starter minutes. This just seems like a statement kind of move. It won’t have much of an effect on overall minute distribution.

  3. BigBlueAL

    I remember Hannah Storm working for the NBA on NBC in the mid 90’s and quite frankly she was nothing to look at. Now on ESPN 15 years later she is pretty damn hot lol.

  4. Shad0wF0x

    Tried out watching between MSG and ESPN. JVG is ok. Mark Jackson is just annoying. Pace isn’t a factor in points allowed? What an asshole.

  5. jon abbey

    I will never forgive Walsh for so badly botching the 2009 draft, unless somehow NY wins a title anyway. if we had Lawson and Blair on board, maybe that would have been enough to lure LeBron. not taking a PG (Lawson, Jennings, Collison, Holiday) and Blair was a mistake NY could not afford.

  6. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: I will never forgive Walsh for so badly botching the 2009 draft, unless somehow NY wins a title anyway. if we had Lawson and Blair on board, maybe that would have been enough to lure LeBron. not taking a PG (Lawson, Jennings, Collison, Holiday) and Blair was a mistake NY could not afford.  

    You have got to be kidding me right?? Blair and Lawson wouldve made LeBron want to come here instead of with Wade and Bosh in Miami???? Are you being serious????

  7. BigBlueAL

    Chandler really needs to learn to stop avoiding contact on his drives. That missed reverse layup wouldve been an easy foul if he wouldnt have tried to avoid contact. This is one of Derek Rose’s problems too.

  8. David Crockett

    I generally have a wide latitude with announcers. It’s hard to talk that long without saying something that’s kinda dumb.

    But shrinking the trade window is just dumb.

  9. David Crockett

    latke: DeJuan Blair doing a good job of throwing his fat around  

    Blair is the thin man waiting to burst out of Mike Sweetney.

  10. ess-dog

    jon abbey: I will never forgive Walsh for so badly botching the 2009 draft, unless somehow NY wins a title anyway. if we had Lawson and Blair on board, maybe that would have been enough to lure LeBron. not taking a PG (Lawson, Jennings, Collison, Holiday) and Blair was a mistake NY could not afford.  

    The only thing that makes me feel better is that everyone missed on Blair. Now he starts at center for the best team in the league. Are you kidding me? He would’ve work well next to Stoud. One can only imagine what would’ve been. And at least we weren’t the Twolves who had Lawson and then traded him!

  11. iserp

    David Crockett: I generally have a wide latitude with announcers. It’s hard to talk that long without saying something that’s kinda dumb.
    But shrinking the trade window is just dumb.  

    I sympathize a bit with this idea. In the spanish soccer league, there’s a small winter trade window; there is some talk about movements and all that, but it doesn’t drag for a long time like in the summer. I don’t like trades to drag for so long; in the summer i don’t care, since there are no matches, but during the season, it’s tiring.

  12. latke

    Amare still forcing it, taking out his frustration on the officials. Someone needs to remind him that the team can score without him. He needs to make himself a threat. It seems after every loss he goes off about how the knicks need to get more easy shots, and yet he continues to force up difficult shots (or try to — a lot of the time he doesn’t even get to the shooting part).

  13. BigBlueAL

    Its amazing to me Amar’e is constantly getting stripped and every time apparently its all ball.

  14. Robert Silverman

    For some reason, when Felton goes to the rim, teams are allowed to hack him. This has been going on for a week. He can’t buy a whistle

  15. maurice lucas

    Same old story. So, how exactly are we (NYK) going to win this game? 22-20 looks unavoidable

  16. ess-dog

    I’m not sure if Felton, Gallo et al, need to wait for better timing to feed Amare in the post or if Amare needs to pass out of the post better – or both.

  17. BigBlueAL

    Felton 2 for 10, TD 2 for 6 so far tonight. PG play killing the Knicks tonight and in this losing streak.

  18. maurice lucas

    maurice lucas: Same old story.So, how exactly are we (NYK) going to win this game?22-20 looks unavoidable  

    Ray Felton must pick up his game. What is wrong with him?!

  19. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas: Same old story.So, how exactly are we (NYK) going to win this game?22-20 looks unavoidable  

    Nobody in their right mind should expect the Knicks to win tonight. Spurs have best record in the NBA for a reason.

  20. ess-dog

    Ultimately I like Wil moving to the bench though. I think the flow is better when Gallo and Wil are separated. And how was that first drive by Stat not a foul???

  21. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Nobody in their right mind should expect the Knicks to win tonight.Spurs have best record in the NBA for a reason.  

    Didn’t someone say the Knicks was going to win one of these 3 road games? So if they were sure to lose tonite, what chance do they have to win tomorrow in OKC, who are rested? When NYK was 22-18, someone said 22-18 would not turn into 22-21. So now we are beginning to accept that unavoidable reality?

  22. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    Didn’t someone say the Knicks was going to win one of these 3 road games?So if they were sure to lose tonite, what chance do they have to win tomorrow in OKC, who are rested?When NYK was 22-18, someone said 22-18 would not turn into 22-21.So now we are beginning to accept that unavoidable reality?  

    Im not going to slit my wrists because the Knicks lose in SA and OKC.

  23. jaylamerique

    ess-dog:
    The only thing that makes me feel better is that everyone missed on Blair.Now he starts at center for the best team in the league.Are you kidding me?He would’ve work well next to Stoud.One can only imagine what would’ve been.And at least we weren’t the Twolves who had Lawson and then traded him!  

    what is up with this love affair with Blair. a ts % of 50.4 is not good. and theres no way in hell he would be starting next to stat on this team. Aside from rebounding, turiaf is better than him.

  24. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Im not going to slit my wrists because the Knicks lose in SA and OKC.  

    What if NYK will drop below 500 by end of Jan? That looks more and more like a future reality. So you are not going to panic at 23-24, are you?

  25. BigBlueAL

    jaylamerique:
    what is up with this love affair with Blair.a ts % of 50.4 is not good. and theres no way in hell he would be starting next to stat on this team. Aside from rebounding, turiaf is better than him.  

    Totally agree. I mentioned Blair’s TS% earlier too. He is a great rebounder but thats it. Barely plays half the game anyway.

  26. jaylamerique

    its become clear that Felton is the reason that were losing. teams are just going under the screen now.

  27. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    What if NYK will drop below 500 by end of Jan?That looks more and more like a future reality.So you are not going to panic at 23-24, are you?  

    Nope because the Knicks would still be comfortably in the 6th seed. Once the 7th and 8th seeds in the East start getting close to the Knicks I will start to “panic”. The schedule becomes ALOT easier toward the end of March and all of April. Knicks can fall a bit below .500 and not make any moves and should still finish with 42-43 wins which I would was my dream scenario before the season started.

  28. latke

    BigBlueAL:
    Totally agree.I mentioned Blair’s TS% earlier too.He is a great rebounder but thats it.Barely plays half the game anyway.  

    To be fair, his TS% last season was 56.4%. He’s been a lot better in the last 3 weeks.

  29. JK47

    Felton is fading fast. Why is the guy with the career .498 TS% second on the team in field goal attempts?

    Of all the pros and cons of acquiring Melo, perhaps the biggest “pro” is that he’d be taking lots of shots that are now being taken by Felton.

  30. BigBlueAL

    BTW dont get me wrong, Blair is a nice player. Excellent 2nd round pick. But again he plays 20 mpg and is terribly inefficient.

    Nice player but please dont make it seem like the Knicks missed out on a future All-Star.

  31. BigBlueAL

    latke:
    To be fair, his TS% last season was 56.4%. He’s been a lot better in the last 3 weeks.  

    TD had a much higher TS% last season too. Blair is playing more minutes this season and is shooting alot worse. I assume he is probably somewhere in between though in terms of his efficiency.

  32. Shad0wF0x

    maurice lucas:
    Didn’t someone say the Knicks was going to win one of these 3 road games?So if they were sure to lose tonite, what chance do they have to win tomorrow in OKC, who are rested?When NYK was 22-18, someone said 22-18 would not turn into 22-21.So now we are beginning to accept that unavoidable reality?  

    I didn’t say it but I assumed that they would beat the Rockets and lose to the Spurs and Thunder.

  33. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Nope because the Knicks would still be comfortably in the 6th seed.Once the 7th and 8th seeds in the East start getting close to the Knicks I will start to “panic”. The schedule becomes ALOT easier toward the end of March and all of April.Knicks can fall a bit below .500 and not make any moves and should still finish with 42-43 wins which I would was my dream scenario before the season started.  

    Calling a 42-43 win season, in the weak East, a “dream scenario” sounds a bit of a cop-out to me. I can take a 42-43 win season if they play in the West. Stats will be considered overpaid if all he can do is to lead the NYK to a 42-40 record in the East. A failure in titanic fashion if the Knicks finishes under 500. You set the bar Low BigBlueAL.

  34. maurice lucas

    JK47: Felton is fading fast.Why is the guy with the career .498 TS% second on the team in field goal attempts?Of all the pros and cons of acquiring Melo, perhaps the biggest “pro” is that he’d be taking lots of shots that are now being taken by Felton.  

    Can’t agree more. Melo will stabilize the Knicks offense. NYK can continue to play all offence and token defence with Melo in the lineup and I am sure they will manage to play .600 ball

  35. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    Calling a 42-43 win season, in the weak East, a “dream scenario” sounds a bit of a cop-out to me.I can take a 42-43 win season if they play in the West.Stats will be considered overpaid if all he can do is to lead the NYK to a 42-40 record in the East.A failure in titanic fashion if the Knicks finishes under 500.You set the bar Low BigBlueAL.  

    I didnt realize Stoudemire was signed to a 1 year deal.

  36. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    I didnt realize Stoudemire was signed to a 1 year deal.  

    We have the right to expect the NYK with Stats to play at least .550 ball, in the weak East. The supporting cast is decent however you cut it… with an above average PG, talented and improving players in Gallo and Chandler. Turiaf is supposed to be serviceable. The disappointing AR is yet offset by the pleasantly surprising Landry Fields. This is NOT a bad supporting cast in any shape or form. As a max player, we have the right to expect Stat to take NYK to at least a 45-46 win season.

  37. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    We have the right to expect the NYK with Stats to play at least .550 ball, in the weak East.The supporting cast is decent however you cut it… with an above average PG, talented and improving players in Gallo and Chandler.Turiaf is supposed to be serviceable.The disappointing AR is yet offset by the pleasantly surprising Landry Fields.This is NOT a bad supporting cast in any shape or form.As a max player, we have the right to expect Stat to take NYK to at least a 45-46 win season.  

    Every national/local writer/analyst predicted the Knicks winning between 37-40 games before the season. Hell Barkley had the Nets finishing with a better record than the Knicks.

    It is not a bad supporting cast, it is a pretty average one which is young and has the chance to get better but still needs a few pieces/upgrades.

  38. maurice lucas

    After tomorrow’s loss at OKC, which some of you said is to be expected, make no mistake, the NYK will be an under-achieving bunch at 22-21.

  39. BigBlueAL

    David Crockett: When teams take Amare away we got nadda right now.  

    But we dont need Melo apparently.

    I admit I was against trading for him and I know all the stats guys here will mock and rip anyone saying they should trade for Melo but its getting to that point where as long as they dont give up too much how can you really be against getting Melo.

    Although maybe once this is all done and the trade deadline passes and Melo isnt on the Knicks the team can relax and start playing good again. Who knows really.

  40. jaylamerique

    maurice lucas:
    We have the right to expect the NYK with Stats to play at least .550 ball, in the weak East.The supporting cast is decent however you cut it… with an above average PG, talented and improving players in Gallo and Chandler.Turiaf is supposed to be serviceable.The disappointing AR is yet offset by the pleasantly surprising Landry Fields.This is NOT a bad supporting cast in any shape or form.As a max player, we have the right to expect Stat to take NYK to at least a 45-46 win season.  

    what difference does it make how many games they win they are still going to be the sixth seed

  41. BigBlueAL

    Shit, the Knicks are only down 6 heading into the 4th quarter. Can they actually somehow steal this one??

  42. Brian Cronin

    where as long as they dont give up too much how can you really be against getting Melo.

    We’ve had, like, one person argue otherwise.

  43. latke

    David Crockett: When teams take Amare away we got nadda right now.  

    The problem is that stoudemire and felton allow teams to take away stoudemire. That extra defensive attention is coming from somewhere. IT means someone else is open. Sure, you could argue that the spurs are giving him single coverage and still stopping him, but that’s just a lack of offensive imagination on the knicks’ part. The spurs have no one with the footspeed to guard stat, so the object should be to get him the ball in a position to take advantage of that. The isos are like anti-speed plays. They allow a defense to settle in. They allow the guy guarding stat to take his time.

  44. David Crockett

    BigBlueAL: Shit, the Knicks are only down 6 heading into the 4th quarter.Can they actually somehow steal this one??  

    Not likely. A lot of that run was without Duncan on the floor.

  45. BigBlueAL

    I dunno Brian, all these different discussions about trading for Melo has gotten be totally confused and I have no clue if it would be good or not trading for him. lol

  46. Brian Cronin

    I dunno Brian, all these different discussions about trading for Melo has gotten be totally confused and I have no clue if it would be good or not trading for him. lol

    I’ve always been for it, so long as it only took one of Fields/Gallo/Chandler.

  47. Brian Cronin

    What’s interesting is that they’re playing good defense, and if they only had mediocre decision-making, they’d be a lot closer by now. But instead, it’s one moronic decision after another.

  48. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    I’ve always been for it, so long as it only took one of Fields/Gallo/Chandler.  

    Of course but I cant imagine the Knicks only giving up 1 of those 3. Always have assumed it would take 2 of them in a trade.

  49. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Every national/local writer/analyst predicted the Knicks winning between 37-40 games before the season.Hell Barkley had the Nets finishing with a better record than the Knicks.It is not a bad supporting cast, it is a pretty average one which is young and has the chance to get better but still needs a few pieces/upgrades.  

    Barkley is a fool. Forget what he says.

    National/local writer/analysts? They watch the same game as I do. And I have been watching the NYK for 25+ years.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/25418118

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/499523-2010-2011-nba-season-preview-record-projections-bold-predictions-and-more/page/8

  50. Brian Cronin

    Of course but I cant imagine the Knicks only giving up 1 of those 3. Always have assumed it would take 2 of them in a trade.

    Agreed. I just think that’s “too much.”

  51. BigBlueAL

    I liked the Gallo who could shoot 3’s better than this current Gallo who cant shoot for shit but can occasionally drive and draw fouls.

  52. ess-dog

    BigBlueAL: I liked the Gallo who could shoot 3?s better than this current Gallo who cant shoot for shit but can occasionally drive and draw fouls.  

    +1

  53. JK47

    That Felton/Douglas backcourt is a real eyesore. Some real ugly guard play when they’re on the floor together.

    Toney D is not a real useful player.

  54. Brian Cronin

    Wait, I’m confused, did maurice lucas make some sort of prediction about the Knicks’ record being close to .500? I haven’t noticed and no one seems to ever bring it up constantly.

  55. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    Barkley is a fool.Forget what he says.National/local writer/analysts?They watch the same game as I do.And I have been watching the NYK for 25+ years.http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/25418118http://bleacherreport.com/articles/499523-2010-2011-nba-season-preview-record-projections-bold-predictions-and-more/page/8  

    So you just linked to previews which had the Knicks finishing 7th with 43 wins and 6th with 44 wins. I said the Knicks even if they fall a bit under .500 will still finish with 42-43 wins and the 6th seed.

    I know Hollinger had the Knicks at 37 wins and every Knick beat writer had them at 39-42 wins. Havent seen anyone say they should win in the high 40’s like you said they should.

  56. JK47

    “When the game’s on the line, I’m the one that’s gonna take that shot.”
    -Ray Felton

    Well, that’s just great.

  57. David Crockett

    JK47: That Felton/Douglas backcourt is a real eyesore.Some real ugly guard play when they’re on the floor together.Toney D is not a real useful player.  

    He’s a good defender

  58. BigBlueAL

    Plus I have mentioned this before, look at the teams below the Knicks and their records. The Knicks can finish with 40 wins and still finish 6th.

  59. BigBlueAL

    JK47: “When the game’s on the line, I’m the one that’s gonna take that shot.”
    -Ray FeltonWell, that’s just great.  

    LMAO

  60. jaylamerique

    JK47: That Felton/Douglas backcourt is a real eyesore.Some real ugly guard play when they’re on the floor together.Toney D is not a real useful player.  

    he is actually a pretty good defender. i think he’s shoulder worse then he is letting on.

  61. BigBlueAL

    Ric Bucher tweeted tonight from the game:

    Word w/Knicks is that Chandler has been bothered by trade talk. After getting off reb, D’Antoni makes point of telling him: “Good job.”

    Damn, is Chandler really that soft?? lol

  62. David Crockett

    Amare has really been turrble tonight. Missing routine shots and awful turnovers. He’s hit the boards but hasn’t passed worth a damn given all the attention.

  63. JK47

    I know that the “ability to create your own shot” is kind of a cliche, kind of like being “scrappy” or “gritty” in baseball. It makes me think of Jamal Crawford dribbling around in circles then hoisting up a 19-foot brick.

    But man, we really are lacking guys who can create their own shot. Traditionally you get that sort of play from your shooting guard, who does have the word “shooting” in his job description. Our shooting guards are Landry Fields, who is about the last guy on earth who’s going to create his own offense and Toney Douglas, who you’d rather not try to create any offense at all.

    It’s no wonder everybody just packs in the middle and tries to take away Amar’e.

  64. jaylamerique

    ess-dog:
    yeah and he had 18 and 13 boards in a win against Dallas.He’s good!  

    • Protecting the rim. This is the bedrock of Dallas’ defense, and the Mavs have not been doing it during this stretch. Opponents over those last 13 games have hit 170-of-255 attempts at the rim — good for 66.7 percent, a horrid mark that would rank 27th in the league and significantly worse than the Mavs’ season-long average, according to Hoopdata. That number looks even worse if you take out Indiana’s 3-of-9 mark (an unusual outlier) from last Wednesday’s game.

    One possible mitigating factor: Chandler missed two of those games — Jan. 15 against Memphis and two days later against the Pistons — and the Mavs allowed those two opponents to hit 34-of-49 (69 percent) combined at the rim. Chandler means so much to this team.

    Dallas hasn’t been allowing many more close attempts than usual during this stretch; teams are just hitting them at a very high rate. Perhaps it’s a random statistical blip and not a sign of long-term problems. These are, after all, the dog days of the NBA season. The other problem might be worse:

    http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/01/21/as-mavs-tinker-real-issue-is-rediscovering-d/

  65. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, Douglas, you’re going to score from under the basket over Duncan.

    Again, the decision making on this team…wow…

  66. BigBlueAL

    This is getting ridiculous with the non-calls on Amar’e. He got absolutely hammered again on both of those shots.

  67. Robert Silverman

    My god. How many times does Stat have to get knocked upside the head before he gets a call????

  68. Brian Cronin

    This is getting ridiculous with the non-calls on Amar’e. He got absolutely hammered again on both of those shots.

    But Clyde is correct that Amar’e doesn’t go into the contact.

  69. rayhed

    amare is so tough to watch… his offensive game is so akward

    also, i still can’t understand at all what dantoni likes in douglas’s game but not in nates…. douglas is just a shittier version

  70. BigBlueAL

    If that wouldve been a timeout for the Spurs and not a jumpball, I wouldve thrown something at my TV.

  71. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    So you just linked to previews which had the Knicks finishing 7th with 43 wins and 6th with 44 wins.I said the Knicks even if they fall a bit under .500 will still finish with 42-43 wins and the 6th seed.I know Hollinger had the Knicks at 37 wins and every Knick beat writer had them at 39-42 wins.Havent seen anyone say they should win in the high 40?s like you said they should.  

    My preseason prediction was 44-38. After the success in Dec, I thought they could get to 48-34. Now I predict they will finish at 39-43. With two in-season 6-game losing streaks, it takes 40-30 to finish at 40-42

  72. Brian Cronin

    also, i still can’t understand at all what dantoni likes in douglas’s game but not in nates…. douglas is just a shittier version

    Toney is a better defender.

    But yeah, otherwise, the similarities in their offensive game (and their abilities to run the point) are striking. D’Antoni is weird like that. He falls in love with players and hates players with seeming randomness.

  73. jaylamerique

    BigBlueAL: Ric Bucher tweeted tonight from the game:Word w/Knicks is that Chandler has been bothered by trade talk. After getting off reb, D’Antoni makes point of telling him: “Good job.”Damn, is Chandler really that soft??lol  

    i figured something was up

  74. maurice lucas

    maurice lucas:
    My preseason prediction was 44-38.After the success in Dec, I thought they could get to 48-34.Now I predict they will finish at 39-43.With two in-season 6-game losing streaks, it takes 40-30 to finish at 40-42  

    What a letdown after the Dec success

  75. Brian Cronin

    Clyde must be confusing Amar’e for Chandler.

    Hehe, true.

    What he means is that Amar’e looks awkward – he isn’t going strong to the basket, and when you do that, you give the referees the opportunity to not make the call.

  76. ess-dog

    I just wish we had brought tonight’s energy against the Kings and the Suns… we have to beat the crap teams and just do our best against the great ones.

  77. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    My preseason prediction was 44-38.After the success in Dec, I thought they could get to 48-34.Now I predict they will finish at 39-43.With two in-season 6-game losing streaks, it takes 40-30 to finish at 40-42  

    Oh so you thought they could win in the high 40’s after there great run. Fair enough, I think many of us hoped they could maintain there play and sneak into a Top 4 or 5 seed and sniff 50 wins.

    But again if you though they would win 44 before the season and they win 42 or 43, is that really underachieving?? Like I mentioned, their schedule in late March and all of April is pretty easy. If the Knicks can be at or even a bit below .500 by then they can make it up and finish in the 42-43 range which is what I expect from them even assuming they lose tomorrow and fall to 22-21.

  78. Brian Cronin

    I just wish we had brought tonight’s energy against the Kings and the Suns… we have to beat the crap teams and just do our best against the great ones.

    Honestly, normally I’d be okay with a loss like this one, because they’re on the road against the best team in the NBA.

    But when they you see how it could be so much closer…so annoying.

    Also, once again, why are they not shooting threes?!?!

  79. BigBlueAL

    BTW about Nate and TD, I think D’Antoni knew Nate was not gonna be with this team after last season and TD would. He had no problem playing him the season before.

  80. Brian Cronin

    BTW about Nate and TD, I think D’Antoni knew Nate was not gonna be with this team after last season and TD would. He had no problem playing him the season before.

    He knew everyone but Gallo, TD and Chandler were not going to be on the team after last season.

  81. David Crockett

    Brian Cronin:
    Also, once again, why are they not shooting threes?!?!  

    SA is effectively taking those looks away. We should be hitting more shots on the inside. We just aren’t.

  82. carlhil2

    Sup, fellas, i often come here, to read up on everything Knicks, and i have 2 say, you guys questioning our need 4 Melo is mind boggling, we are talking about a true scoring threat, whom, by taking, and making, the shots that Felton, Gallo, and Chandler take, and, often, miss. there is no way that Felton should be taking all of those shots.you can give me STAT, Melo, and a bag of balls and, during the off season, i will put together a TEAM. do you want to be the Celtics pre-Garnett i.e. P.P. and a bunch of ROLE PLAYERS, or TODAYS Celtics, PEACE!

  83. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Oh so you thought they could win in the high 40?s after there great run.Fair enough, I think many of us hoped they could maintain there play and sneak into a Top 4 or 5 seed and sniff 50 wins.But again if you though they would win 44 before the season and they win 42 or 43, is that really underachieving??Like I mentioned, their schedule in late March and all of April is pretty easy.If the Knicks can be at or even a bit below .500 by then they can make it up and finish in the 42-43 range which is what I expect from them even assuming they lose tomorrow and fall to 22-21.  

    They have 6 sets of back-to-back out of the 18 games they will play in March. What is your prediction their record in those 18 games?

  84. latke

    JK47: I know that the “ability to create your own shot” is kind of a cliche, kind of like being “scrappy” or “gritty” in baseball.It makes me think of Jamal Crawford dribbling around in circles then hoisting up a 19-foot brick.But man, we really are lacking guys who can create their own shot.Traditionally you get that sort of play from your shooting guard, who does have the word “shooting” in his job description.Our shooting guards are Landry Fields, who is about the last guy on earth who’s going to create his own offense and Toney Douglas, who you’d rather not try to create any offense at all.It’s no wonder everybody just packs in the middle and tries to take away Amar’e.

    How would you know if others could create shots? Felton and Stoudemire have taken nearly half of NY’s FGAs… That must be because they’re out best options — I mean who could shoot better than 15 of 45 — 33%? Oh wait, the rest of the knicks, who combined to shoot 21 of 46 — 46%. If we had shot 46% as a team, we’d be up 5!

  85. Thomas B.

    You don’t expect to win this game but you get pissed when you realize that this game could have been won.

  86. maurice lucas

    maurice lucas:
    They have 6 sets of back-to-back out of the 18 games they will play in March.What is your prediction their record in those 18 games?  

    7-11 for me, just so you know, for the record

  87. Brian Cronin

    You don’t expect to win this game but you get pissed when you realize that this game could have been won.

    Yeah, spot on.

  88. ess-dog

    latke:
    How would you know if others could create shots? Felton and Stoudemire have taken nearly half of NY’s FGAs… That must be because they’re out best options — I mean who could shoot better than 15 of 45 — 33%? Oh wait, the rest of the knicks, who combined to shoot 21 of 46 — 46%. If we had shot 46% as a team, we’d be up 5!  

    Yeah, that’s a real problem.

  89. latke

    BTW, Stoudemire’s streak of 20 point games finally comes to an end. Maybe now he’ll remember that those guys in blue uniforms are also on his team. Stoudemire put up an Eddy Curry-like performance. Yeah, he got 15 rebounds, but how many of them were offensive after he took a dumb shot (only to be followed by another bad shot…)?

  90. JK47

    @135

    I’m with you, latke. Felton has WAY too much of a shooter’s mentality for a guy who is a pretty crappy shooter. There’s no reason he should consistently taking more shots than Gallinari, yet it happens pretty much every game.

    If SSOL means “Ray Felton quickly dribble the ball up the court and shoot midrange jumpers” then SSOL sucks.

  91. carlhil2

    if it was up 2 me, i would take half the Nuggets roster 4 whatever that they wanted, other than STAT, including coaches!

  92. maurice lucas

    Thomas B.: You don’t expect to win this game but you get pissed when you realize that this game could have been won.  

    They pissed away the 2 “rested” home games against the Kings and the Suns. That hurts like hell

  93. David Crockett

    Thomas B.:
    Left? They showed energy?  

    Will only have given up 40 or so in the 2nd half.
    Yeah, we got energy in the 2nd half.
    We played like crap early.

  94. BigBlueAL

    maurice lucas:
    They have 6 sets of back-to-back out of the 18 games they will play in March.What is your prediction their record in those 18 games?  

    Who the hell knows since we have no idea what this roster will look like back then. The Knicks have actually been pretty good in 2nd games of back-to-backs this season. All I know is in their final 8 games, 6 of them are against teams below .500 and the other 2 are the final 2 games of the season vs Chicago and Boston who might not be playing for anything those game. Their schedule in April looks very easy right now.

  95. maurice lucas

    A max player with a $100M contract cannot avert 2 6-game losing streaks in one season. So overrated!!

  96. John Kenney

    I’m sick and tired of D’antoni throwing lineups out there in crunch time that DO NOT WIN. He takes fields out with 7 minutes left and BOOM we go from down 4 with the ball to down 8 and 10. Fields makes this team better. When we play him, we win. I’m so angry at D’antoni right now. Come on mike, Chandler’s mind is obviously off following the Melo trade. Here’s to losing tomorrow in OKC.

  97. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Who the hell knows since we have no idea what this roster will look like back then.The Knicks have actually been pretty good in 2nd games of back-to-backs this season.All I know is in their final 8 games, 6 of them are against teams below .500 and the other 2 are the final 2 games of the season vs Chicago and Boston who might not be playing for anything those game.Their schedule in April looks very easy right now.  

    If they get Melo, of course my 7-11 record for the NYK in March will have to be revisited. Why you are too afraid to predict their record for those 18 games in March? I bet the ever optimistic you did not know they have 6 sets of back to backs in March

  98. BigBlueAL

    BTW I know Amar’e shot horrible tonight but I dont see who else shot great. Only Turiaf and Easy E shot better than 50%.

    I do think Amar’s is forcing things and looks like is beginning to lose trust in his teammates. But again Gallo 5 for 13, WC 3 for 10, TD 5 for 14 and Felton 8 for 21. Also I think Amar’e got fouled on about 5 of his misses so I give him a pass on those lol.

  99. maurice lucas

    BigBlueAL:
    Who the hell knows since we have no idea what this roster will look like back then.The Knicks have actually been pretty good in 2nd games of back-to-backs this season.All I know is in their final 8 games, 6 of them are against teams below .500 and the other 2 are the final 2 games of the season vs Chicago and Boston who might not be playing for anything those game.Their schedule in April looks very easy right now.  

    If Knicks still do not know if they will clinch a playoff spot come April 1st, they will for sure choke in those 7 games in April

  100. carlhil2

    The other teams know that they only need to contain STAT, i mean, Gallo, you are 6-10, can you get more than 2 boards?

  101. Thomas B.

    David Crockett:
    Will only have given up 40 or so in the 2nd half.
    Yeah, we got energy in the 2nd half.
    We played like crap early.  

    I missed the first half so I cant compare the defensive effort, but I thought the second was fair effort combined with poor Spur execution. Down the stretch the Spur got what they wanted when they just buckled down.
    They got energy to get to the basket but none left to finish at the rim. Yes you Gallo, StAT,Turiaf.

  102. latke

    John Kenney: I’m sick and tired of D’antoni throwing lineups out there in crunch time that DO NOT WIN. He takes fields out with 7 minutes left and BOOM we go from down 4 with the ball to down 8 and 10. Fields makes this team better. When we play him, we win. I’m so angry at D’antoni right now. Come on mike, Chandler’s mind is obviously off following the Melo trade. Here’s to losing tomorrow in OKC.

    The problem was Douglas was playing well. Felton really should have been the one on the bench, but I think out of respect MDA felt he had to get Felton back in the game. I suppose you could have put Landry in at SF, but the real effect he had was stopping Ginobili (the best player on the spurs IMO), and if he guarded ginobili, then felton/douglas would have had to guard jefferson, which probably would not have worked out so well. Regardless, once landry sits, whammo, Ginobili breaks out from having a bad game! The game falls out of reach for the knicks.

  103. JK47

    @157

    I think you’re exactly right, and this shows why the Felton/Douglas backcourt is so bad. When Douglas is forced to play SG, it takes away the best part of his game, which is his defense. He’s pretty good at guarding fast little point guards, but he’s too small/weak to really do a good job on bigger, stronger shooting guards.

  104. John Kenney

    @157 I agree- either leave felton on the bench or, if you have to, sit douglas. I just can’t handle landry being pulled there.

  105. BigBlueAL

    JK47: @157I think you’re exactly right, and this shows why the Felton/Douglas backcourt is so bad.When Douglas is forced to play SG, it takes away the best part of his game, which is his defense.He’s pretty good at guarding fast little point guards, but he’s too small/weak to really do a good job on bigger, stronger shooting guards.

    When they are in the backcourt together though TD usually always covers the PG and Felton the SG.

  106. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, Fields playing is a separate issue though. I actually think the Felton-TD backcourt is pretty effective because TD offensively is much better as a SG obviously and I think at times they provide some really solid D and push the pace well together.

  107. maurice lucas

    I shudder to think somehow either Zach’s or DLee’s team sneaks into the playoff and Stat’s NYK does not make it.

  108. carlhil2

    maurice lucas: I shudder to think somehow either Zach’s or DLee’s team sneaks into the playoff and Stat’s NYK does not make it.  

    To be fair, STAT is scoring 10 more points, 2.5 blocks and is actually carrying the Knicks, without STAT, nothing, the Warriors without Lee, about the same, they also have better scorering options than the Knicks!

  109. maurice lucas

    carlhil2:
    To be fair, STAT is scoring 10 more points, 2.5 blocks and is actually carrying the Knicks, without STAT, nothing, the Warriors without Lee, about the same, they also have better scorering options than the Knicks!  

    Zach’s MEM 20-23 record and DLee’s GSW to-be 19-23 record in the strong West are on par with the inflated to-be 22-21 record in the weak East. I don’t but MEM or GSW has a better roster than the NYK

  110. carlhil2

    maurice lucas:
    Zach’s MEM 20-23 record and DLee’s GSW to-be 19-23 record in the strong West are on par with the inflated to-be 22-21 record in the weak East.I don’t but MEM or GSW has a better roster than the NYK  

    And neither is D. Lee, nor Zach in the same conversation as STAT, if they were, the Knicks would not have been stinking up the N.B.A. over the last several years, there are leaders and followers, from what i can see so far, STAT is trying his best to lead a bunch of very young role players, Zach and D. Lee could not do that, lets see how the season plays out, once we get Melo, everone will forget this bad spell, PEACE!

  111. latke

    carlhil2:
    To be fair, STAT is scoring 10 more points, 2.5 blocks and is actually carrying the Knicks, without STAT, nothing, the Warriors without Lee, about the same, they also have better scorering options than the Knicks!  

    If you really believe that, then how do you explain the fact that the knicks’ strongest stretch of basketball — when they came back from like 10 down in late first/early second quarter to take the lead — was when both Felton and Stoudemire were on the bench? Douglas, CHandler and Williams were positive in +/-. Walker was -1. No knick starter was better than -6.

  112. greatscott

    With 22 points and 10 rebounds Friday, David Lee is averaging 21.5 points, 9.5 boards and 4.0 assists in his last four games.

    Warriors are also on a 4 game win streak. Coincidence? I think not.

    What a difference getting over that hole in his arm makes.

  113. greatscott

    If Lee didn’t go down, the Warriors would be over .500 now. In the West anything over .500 is an accomplishment. With Lee getting healthier now their goal is to get over .500 by the all star break and are on a 4 game win streak and have won 6 of the last 10. The Knicks seem to be going the opposite direction, 4 game losing and lost 6 of 10.

  114. Ben R

    Wow. It’s like rats off a sinking ship. We gave away two games (Sac and Pho), lost a 50/50 game (Hou) and a lost a game we shouldn’t win anyway (SAS) and now the Knicks suck. Now we’re lucky to be playing in a weak East and will stuggle to make the playoffs. Give me a break. It’s been an ugly week of basketball but this team is good. Even with these last four losses we are 19-12 since our bad start. We have a solid record against teams over .500 (7-11, 6-8 since our 3-8 start), and we are in the hardest stretch of the season.

    Over the next 12 games, 6 are against bad teams, of the remaining 6, 3 are against Atlanta and OKC, teams we’re as good as, and 4 of those 6 are at home. We should be able to go at least .500 if not better over the next 12 till the all-star break.

    I don’t know what game everyone else was watching but Amare was the weak point today. Amare was a mess. Felton shot bad but Amare just plowed into traffic play after play again. I know he got fouled alot but after you try something 3, 4, 5 times maybe you should realize your not going to get the call and try something different.

    I don’t see how anyone can blame our supporting cast. We need to get back to ball movement, unselfish play. We need Amare and Felton to realize a good shot from Gallo, Chandler or Fields is better than a bad shot from them. Felton should not be getting more shots than Gallo or Chandler. When we were playing well they were all shooting at about the same rate, lately Felton forces alot of shots and so does Amare. I am happy Amare’s scoring streak is over, maybe he’ll stop forcing things.

  115. d-mar

    Just finished watching the game on DVR, and man, has STAT’s game gone ugly in a hurry. Between Chuck Hayes and Blair, they made him look just plain dumb on offense. Yes, there’s some contact, but some of those drives to the hoop are awkward and have little chance of success. What has changed so drastically from the Amare of the 7 straight 30+ games and now? Is he tired or are defenses figuring out how to stop him? I think the book on STAT now is “Reach in and you’ll get a strip 9 times out of 10″

    Also, Gallo’s slow motion drives to the hoop are some of the ugliest things I’ve seen on a basketball court. I think the refs don’t give him calls because his moves are so freakin’ heinous.

  116. Brian Cronin

    True, Ben. I mean, I think it is cool to hit the panic button if they lose to Washington on Monday, but otherwise, while it sure hurts to watch at the time, these losses are not that big of a deal. Losing to the best team in the NBA on the road? Seriously? Losing to a good Western team on the road? Possibly losing to a very good Western team on the road on the second night of a back-to-back after playing the best team in the NBA the previous night?

    The two losses were annoying because the Knicks could have easily been in both of those games (heck, they were down 4 with the ball against San Antonio in the fourth quarter!) if Amar’e and Felton played more intelligent basketball (and if D’Antoni had adjusted his lineups to maximize the intelligence quotient on the floor). Meanwhile, Gallo and WC also need to hit more of their shots – but “not hitting shots” is a lot less worrisome to me than “consistently making ill-advised decisions.”

    But while there were annoying, they don’t tell us anything more than that what we should have already known (particularly due to their point differential, which is barely positive) – this is a decent team, but not a very good one, and they’re going to have troubles playing everyone – they just need to pull out more winnable games (or, moreover, just more winnable games than Indiana, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, etc. pull out).

  117. Brian Cronin

    Also, Gallo’s slow motion drives to the hoop are some of the ugliest things I’ve seen on a basketball court. I think the refs don’t give him calls because his moves are so freakin’ heinous.

    That’s an interesting point – it does seem that they don’t give him the call an inordinate amount of times, and perhaps that’s the reason? Seems odd, though, as they give Manu tons of calls, and that guy is just as awkward looking on his drives.

  118. maurice lucas

    I seem to be one of the rare fans who are screaming “the ship be sinking” (a la michael ray richardson) at this juncture of the season. So many are so sure, so analytical, so calm, rationalizing it is quite alright to lose to these elite teams and NYK will still be the 6th seed at the end of the season. REALLY??!! at 22-21 after tonite’s expected loss, and 6 sets of back-to-backs in March out of 18 games which I predict they will go 7-11, the Knicks are going toward a 39 win season, with a looming possibility of falling out of the playoff.

  119. maurice lucas

    Ben R: Wow. It’s like rats off a sinking ship. We gave away two games (Sac and Pho), lost a 50/50 game (Hou) and a lost a game we shouldn’t win anyway (SAS) and now the Knicks suck. Now we’re lucky to be playing in a weak East and will stuggle to make the playoffs. Give me a break. It’s been an ugly week of basketball but this team is good. Even with these last four losses we are 19-12 since our bad start. We have a solid record against teams over .500 (7-11, 6-8 since our 3-8 start), and we are in the hardest stretch of the season.Over the next 12 games, 6 are against bad teams, of the remaining 6, 3 are against Atlanta and OKC, teams we’re as good as, and 4 of those 6 are at home. We should be able to go at least .500 if not better over the next 12 till the all-star break.
    I don’t know what game everyone else was watching but Amare was the weak point today. Amare was a mess. Felton shot bad but Amare just plowed into traffic play after play again. I know he got fouled alot but after you try something 3, 4, 5 times maybe you should realize your not going to get the call and try something different.I don’t see how anyone can blame our supporting cast. We need to get back to ball movement, unselfish play. We need Amare and Felton to realize a good shot from Gallo, Chandler or Fields is better than a bad shot from them. Felton should not be getting more shots than Gallo or Chandler. When we were playing well they were all shooting at about the same rate, lately Felton forces alot of shots and so does Amare. I am happy Amare’s scoring streak is over, maybe he’ll stop forcing things.  

    I will check back with you in a few weeks, when the NYK are 3 games under 500, about the rats leaving the sinking ship comments.

  120. Jimmy C

    Watched most of the game, having decided to spare everyone the vitriol, but was quite interesting to read everyone’s reactions. I actually thought the defensive intensity was better than it has been maybe all season. True, the Spurs were nowhere near the top of their game, but you could just tell we were more focused on stopping penetration, closed out fairly well, and weren’t totally abysmal on the boards.

    Still, 5 in a row is 5 in a row.

    Brian Cronin: True, Ben. I mean, I think it is cool to hit the panic button if they lose to Washington on Monday, but otherwise, while it sure hurts to watch at the time, these losses are not that big of a deal.   

    Brian, I admire your optimism. It helps to take yourself back to August, when most of us were seeing between 40 and 45 wins. And while where we’re at jives pretty closely with what a lot of people predicted, I think what’s hard to take is that, having seen them play good — even great — basketball in spurts, some of us really start to expect more out of them. Sure, as long as we make the playoffs — its a longshot we won’t — then you probably can’t describe it as a “disappointment”. But I think anything below a 6th seed would still be disappointING.

    Semantics, I know.

    On a side note: Not surprisingly, the Nuggets rejected our low-ball offer of Fields, Chandler and a pick via Randolph. From what Bucher was saying during the ESPN feed, Walsh doesn’t want to belabor this — he’d make an offer and walk away.

    So…. is that it? If it is, I feel oddly comfortable. Maybe now Chandler can pull himself out of his funk? Or does Walsh come back with a better (worse for us) offer?

  121. Brian Cronin

    Currently, with the Knicks’ future schedule firmly taken into consideration, John Hollinger has the Knicks’ playoff odds at 91.1%.

    That 8.9% chance sure does loom.

  122. Brian Cronin

    On a side note: Not surprisingly, the Nuggets rejected our low-ball offer of Fields, Chandler and a pick via Randolph. From what Bucher was saying during the ESPN feed, Walsh doesn’t want to belabor this — he’d make an offer and walk away.

    The idea of that as a “low ball” offer. Yuck.

  123. Jimmy C

    Brian Cronin:
    The idea of that as a “low ball” offer. Yuck.  

    Exactly. I don’t think many of us see it as lowball at all, but unfortunately we’re forced to look through the Nuggets’ rose colored glasses.

  124. maurice lucas

    Brian Cronin:
    The idea of that as a “low ball” offer. Yuck.  

    Brian, I check his playoff odds on a regular basis. It will be dropping fast and lowered to the 70’s range by end of this month. Let’s see.

  125. Brian Cronin

    Chris Sheridan had an interesting comment the other day that he thinks AR is glued to the bench because the Knicks have already determine they’re dealing him, so they don’t want him hurt before he gets traded.

  126. Brian Cronin

    Brian, I check his playoff odds on a regular basis. It will be dropping fast and lowered to the 70?s range by end of this month. Let’s see.

    Just like how the Knicks would have a losing record by the end of 2010? That prediction of yours sure panned out. It’s odd that you don’t constantly remind us of that prediction.

  127. maurice lucas

    I am calling a SELL on the NYK stock while I am still on top. You all bullish NYK investors can hold on to your positions with a dwindling value by the day

  128. Jimmy C

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24117/discord-in-indianatrade-chatter

    “While Anthony certainly wants to sign the three-year, $65 million contract extension with the Knicks, several sources close to the Nuggets superstar tell me he’s willing to play out the season in Denver (or Houston, etc.) and sign with New York as a free agent, even if it means taking less money under the new collective bargaining agreement. Anthony understands he can make up at least some of the money in New York through endorsements.”

    That’s as good a sign as we’ve gotten from Melo, if it’s true.

  129. Nick C.

    Wow! As far as the team goes 40-42 wins was what I went with before the season so the record puts them right there but the way the have got there is dispiriting. Some things may be different but they are playing more like the early season Knicks than the Knicks that were losing only to the elite teams (and Cleveland ). As for the “lowball” offer F’s Denver if that’s how they want to play it. As it was the team would have a bench of Gallo Extra E and Walker plus whatever slop Denver dumped on them. No thanks.

  130. rama

    maurice lucas: I am calling a SELL on the NYK stock while I am still on top.You all bullish NYK investors can hold on to your positions with a dwindling value by the day  

    Advanced stats: maurice lucas has a BC14% (Blog Comment Percentage), but hasn’t shown the ability to make the comments of those around him better. I think we should trade him for Ted Nelson straight up.

  131. ess-dog

    Jimmy C:
    Exactly. I don’t think many of us see it as lowball at all, but unfortunately we’re forced to look through the Nuggets’ rose colored glasses.  

    Let’s be honest, Brian. We’re the ones with the colored glasses. Denver is supposed to get their panties all wet over a 2nd round pick (yes he’s good, but he’s 23 w/ a WS48 of .108), a low 1st round pick who has done little of interest until his contract year, and a #15 pick?
    How do you sell your fan base on that? It would be like asking us to trade Stoudemire for Dejuan Blair, George Hill and a #15 pick, except that’s probably better value. Would you do that?
    We need to get them a top 8 pick, recent past or future, in order to get Melo, plus another piece and a pick. That’s probably a fair price.
    That’s why Donnie was thinking Mayo, since Denver doesn’t like Gallo.
    That being said, we should just wait until the offseason for Melo.

  132. GHenman

    maurice lucas: Brian, I check his playoff odds on a regular basis. It will be dropping fast and lowered to the 70?s range by end of this month. Let’s see.  (Quote)

    70% this late in the season is pretty strong odds they make it. There’s also a pretty big cushion between them and the seventh seed.

  133. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Sometimes I’m awfully prescient. Other times not so much.

    The Honorable Cock Jowles
    December 9, 2010 at 2:20 am
    Can’t we just stop arguing about Carmelo Anthony?

    Can’t we just admire his style and athleticism in another jersey, and be thankful that we don’t have to take on another bloated contract for a volume-first scorer who doesn’t play defense?

    Can’t we just understand that scoring efficiency, offensive rebounding, turnover rate, and free throws-per-field goal attempt are the metrics we can rely on, and that they, in sum, demonstrate that he’s not worth a max contract, particularly since this team is most likely one defensive stopper in the paint away from a top-4 seed in the East?

    Think about it. (By the way, I’m calling it right now: we’re going to slide for a while at some point during this season. The margin of victory is improving, and the team is demonstrably better than it was when the season began [thank you D'antoni for telling Amar'e that he's not LeBron], but the pythagorean win total do not project well for the rest of the season)

  134. Brian Cronin

    Let’s be honest, Brian. We’re the ones with the colored glasses. Denver is supposed to get their panties all wet over a 2nd round pick (yes he’s good, but he’s 23 w/ a WS48 of .108), a low 1st round pick who has done little of interest until his contract year, and a #15 pick?
    How do you sell your fan base on that? It would be like asking us to trade Stoudemire for Dejuan Blair, George Hill and a #15 pick, except that’s probably better value. Would you do that?
    We need to get them a top 8 pick, recent past or future, in order to get Melo, plus another piece and a pick. That’s probably a fair price.
    That’s why Donnie was thinking Mayo, since Denver doesn’t like Gallo.
    That being said, we should just wait until the offseason for Melo.

    Denver categorically does not have a better offer out there than Chandler, Fields, and a first round pick for Randolph, which is why it is absurd to consider it a “low ball” offer when it is the best offer they have!

    This is not a situation like with Chris Paul, where New Orleans can just say, “We’ll see what happens next year.” Denver is going to lose Carmelo, whether it be a trade or by free agency, so it is not at all like the Knicks trading Amar’e for the package listed, since the Knicks have Amar’e locked in for years. Denver will be losing Carmelo after this season, so the only question is do they lose him for a trade exception or do they get the best deal possible now?

    And the best deal they have for him right now has to be from the Knicks, because no other team will offer as much knowing that he will not sign an extension with them.

  135. Z

    Brian Cronin: Chris Sheridan had an interesting comment the other day that he thinks AR is glued to the bench because the Knicks have already determine they’re dealing him, so they don’t want him hurt before he gets traded.  

    Don’t teams usually play guys they want to trade so that their stock goes up? Seems like gluing a guy to the bench helps kill his value more than an occasional (or even often in AR’s case) on-court blunder, no?

  136. ess-dog

    I’ve been a big D’Antoni defender throughout, but I’m really starting to question the SSOL system.
    Glen Davis plays. DeJuan Blair plays. Taj Gibson plays, all big minutes. None of them shoot at very good rates at all and yet they all see 20 plus minutes on winning teams.
    Why? Because they help their teams in other ways. As in, Anthony Randolph can help our team win in other ways that Shawne Williams can’t.
    D’Antoni is apparently the only coach in the league that can’t see this, aside from the dearly departed Don Nelson.
    It’s not like our record is very far from where I thought it would be, but I just don’t think D’Antoni maximizes his roster due to the inflexibility of his concepts.

  137. Brian Cronin

    Don’t teams usually play guys they want to trade so that their stock goes up? Seems like gluing a guy to the bench helps kill his value more than an occasional (or even often in AR’s case) on-court blunder, no?

    I think Sheridan believes that the Knicks already have set offers for AR. You know, guarantees that teams will acquire him, so they don’t want to jeopardize them by AR getting hurt.

    It sounds dumb to me, too, but it also sadly sounds realistic.

  138. Brian Cronin

    70% this late in the season is pretty strong odds they make it. There’s also a pretty big cushion between them and the seventh seed.

    It’s not even 70%! It’s 91.1%!

  139. ess-dog

    Brian Cronin:
    Denver categorically does not have a better offer out there than Chandler, Fields, and a first round pick for Randolph, which is why it is absurd to consider it a “low ball” offer when it is the best offer they have!This is not a situation like with Chris Paul, where New Orleans can just say, “We’ll see what happens next year.” Denver is going to lose Carmelo, whether it be a trade or by free agency, so it is not at all like the Knicks trading Amar’e for the package listed, since the Knicks have Amar’e locked in for years. Denver will be losing Carmelo after this season, so the only question is do they lose him for a trade exception or do they get the best deal possible now?And the best deal they have for him right now has to be from the Knicks, because no other team will offer as much knowing that he will not sign an extension with them.  

    Well, this is Denver’s fault I suppose. The lunacy of the process that is. Why in God’s name haven’t they spoken with Anthony more about where he would and would not go? All of NJ’s deals were more than fair. Shouldn’t Denver have known say, 5 months ago whether Melo would accept a trade there? Did they have to treat him like a bratty child and just hope he would “snap out of it” once they reasoned with him? I don’t blame the Nets one bit for pulling out.
    I’m not a GM. All I can do is read the papers like everyone else. But it seems as if Melo wants to go to the Knicks and there has been positive talk about the Bulls. Maybe Denver should focus on a trade that goes through 1 of those 2 teams? If they’re not jazzed about their players, ask the other GMs to scour the league, see what they can get for those players, and then come back to us with a 3 or 4 way trade. Is it really that hard? The IRS works more efficiently than the Nuggets.

  140. Frank O.

    I don’t think the problem is the system. I don’t think the problem is D’Antoni per se.
    I think there are a few things at work here. I watched the entire game, but was with my wife, so didn’t post here.
    First, other teams are putting bodies on our guys. Felton and Amare and Turiaf and a few others are getting pounded. The Knicks are undersized, generally, and it’s starting to affect the team. Teams have adjusted.
    Second, some players are reverting back to the mean, including Felton, who acts like he is a first option scorer, rather than an enabler lately. He’s trying to shoot out of the slump. I heard yesterday the Knicks were working on the PnR, but I don’t recall even one occasion where Felton started a pick and roll play. Pretty frustrating. I think Felton’s play is at the heart of the Knicks problems.
    Third, the trade rumors are having an affect. Amare and now D’Antoni are saying in the press that the guys have to fight through it. Amare going public with his texts to Carmelo telling him he still wants him on the Knicks probably shattered the confidence of guys like Gallo, WC and Fields. Each of them has shown some decline in their play, and they are major players in the Knicks’ resurgence.
    Fourth, injuries are slowing them down. Felton has a bad knuckle and is recovering from an ankle sprain. Amare has shoulder, hand and other issues that are affecting his game. Turiaf has had a knee and now a hip problem. Douglas has been playing with two sprained shoulders.
    We’re not deep, or experienced, and the guys are having troubling fighting through these things. Adversity was expected, and so are slumps. I was troubled by the four games before last night because the Knicks were getting beat because of effort. But last night they fought hard, against a great team, in their home. They should have lost, and they did.

  141. cgreene

    ess-dog:
    Well, this is Denver’s fault I suppose.The lunacy of the process that is.Why in God’s name haven’t they spoken with Anthony more about where he would and would not go?All of NJ’s deals were more than fair.Shouldn’t Denver have known say, 5 months ago whether Melo would accept a trade there?Did they have to treat him like a bratty child and just hope he would “snap out of it” once they reasoned with him?I don’t blame the Nets one bit for pulling out.
    I’m not a GM.All I can do is read the papers like everyone else.But it seems as if Melo wants to go to the Knicks and there has been positive talk about the Bulls.Maybe Denver should focus on a trade that goes through 1 of those 2 teams?If they’re not jazzed about their players, ask the other GMs to scour the league, see what they can get for those players, and then come back to us with a 3 or 4 way trade.Is it really that hard?The IRS works more efficiently than the Nuggets.  

    It’s almost as if they thought that Melo would change his mind about not wanting to play in NJ because it was a better deal for Denver so they pursued it and then went to convince him and he said no. In the meantime the whole thing went public and they though Melo would look bad by turning it down. They got the PR angle and strategic angle wrong. I think the chances of his becoming a Knick is better than 50% right now.

  142. Frank O.

    Having said that, this little section of the NY Times article from the game story was shocking…:

    “The Knicks had been 7-3 with Turiaf as the starting center, and 5-1 with the lineup that started Friday. And yet, by one measure, it was their worst five-man unit. According to an analysis by John Shuhmann of NBA.com, that lineup — which includes Felton, Danilo Gallinari and Landry Fields — had been outscored by 6.5 points per 100 possessions, making it their least effective.

    “D’Antoni winced when he heard the statistic.

    “’When they’re out there, I’m cringing sometimes on the offensive end, because it’s not real fluid and real nice,’” he said. But, he added, “’I didn’t know it was that bad.’”

    HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE????
    This is a multi-million-dollar franchise.
    Stunning admission

  143. Brian Cronin

    Honestly, I don’t blame any of the parties involved, except the media folks who act like adding Gallo to the WC, Fields, Curry and AR would still be a low-ball offer.

    On Denver’s end – they want to get the best deal possible, and they think if they hold out, Melo will change his mind and agree to a deal to the Nets.

    On Melo’s end – he wants to go to the Knicks, so he makes it clear that he wants to go to the Knicks.

    On Jersey’s end – obviously, they can’t trade all these assets for Melo if he won’t sign with them.

    On the Knicks’ end – if Melo has made it clear he only wants to come to New York, then why give anything more than WC/Fields/AR, which already is a very fair offer for a player who is going to leave after this season.

    I think they’re all doing logical stuff. Heck, I’m cool with Denver trying to hold out from more from the Knicks. The only thing I take issue with is the idea that the offer the Knicks have out there is a “low ball” offer. I don’t believe it is. Heck, even if I were a Denver fan, knowing that the Nets’ offer is not a real offer if Melo won’t sign with them, then I’d prefer WC, Fields and a first round pick to losing Melo for nothing but a trade exception (which just happened in Toronto and Cleveland).

  144. Jimmy C

    I feel like one of two things happens at this point:

    1) The Nuggets wait to hear more offers until right before the trade deadline, hope that the Knicks up their offer and, if they don’t get anything better, deal him at the deadline for the aforementioned Fields, Curry, Chandler and Randolph / pick. How do you market this to your fans? I think Fields would be pretty marketable, actually. As much as I’d hate to see him go, I think Denver would fall in love with him.

    2) The Mavs get in the mix and offer something like DeShawn Stevenson, Jason Terry and Roddy Beaubois for Melo, and get a third team involved to deal Lawson for a pick to throw in the mix. In Beaubois you’d get a legit prospect who could continue to learn under Billups, a proven vet in Terry and….. a headcase. Dallas could even toss in a few other extras.

    I just look at Cuban and think he probably sees this as his last great shot at the trophy. They’re in a slide of their own, and the window is closing ever faster. I think renting Melo for the remainder of the season is absolutely something Cuban would do.

  145. ess-dog

    Jimmy C:
    I just look at Cuban and think he probably sees this as his last great shot at the trophy. They’re in a slide of their own, and the window is closing ever faster. I think renting Melo for the remainder of the season is absolutely something Cuban would do.  

    Dallas usually makes pretty smart trades. Not sure who would rent Melo at this point. If the Hawks could flip him for Joe Johnson straight up that would be shrewd. Or even Orlando if they think that will get them over the top.

  146. Frank O.

    The one thing that will force a trade is that Carmelo wants the $65 mill extension. He won’t get that as an FA, so it has to come in a deal.

  147. Brian Cronin

    The one thing that will force a trade is that Carmelo wants the $65 mill extension. He won’t get that as an FA, so it has to come in a deal.

    It could come in a sign and trade, right?

    So if Melo says, “I’ll play for the $15 million the Knicks might have available and you get nothing,” Denver could very easily do a sign and trade for an exemption (as it is that or nothing). I mean, the Cavs obviously haaaaaaaaaaated Lebron, but they still did a sign and trade for a trade exception.

  148. Brian Cronin

    Here’s an interesting question – as of right this second, are the Knicks over the cap? Does anyone know for sure?

  149. SeeWhyDee77

    Melo this, Melo that lol. OK..considerin that Joisey dropped out..this Is the best deal for Denver.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4hu8h3y
    In this deal, they get Cap relief in Azu and Curry..and young players with upside in the positions they need it in. And if Azu comes back healthy..that’s more of a bonus for them. Donnie’s got leverage on his side and this is the take it or leave it offer he should put on the table. That should allow us to sign Barron and another point guard for the rest of the season. And with that i’m done with the whole ‘melo thing.

    If a Melo trade doesn’t come to fruition..then Donnie should hold onto Randolph and convince D’Antoni to play him exclusively as a 4/5 and let him grow into it (he also has to get coach to commit to givin him consistent minutes every night..at least 10) and try and trade for a point guard..even if WC has to be in the trade becuz in all likelihood Melo will sign with the Knicks this summer anyway.

  150. Z

    Brian Cronin: Here’s an interesting question – as of right this second, are the Knicks over the cap? Does anyone know for sure?  

    Salary cap is: $58,044,000
    Hoops Hype has our current payroll at: $58,102,438
    Sham Sports has it at: $58,434,714

    So the answer I think is that we are technically over the cap.

  151. Brian Cronin

    Salary cap is: $58,044,000
    Hoops Hype has our current payroll at: $58,102,438
    Sham Sports has it at: $58,434,714

    So the answer I think is that we are technically over the cap.

    That’s what I’ve been seeing, too, but it just seems hard to believe, doesn’t it? How did the Knicks get over the cap?

  152. Z

    Roger Mason jr.

    But does it matter? Is there an advantage to being a dollar under instead of a dollar over? (I know there was something about being able to trade Turiaf, Azubuike, and AR in packages rather than separately because we were under the cap when we acquired them. But is there still an advantage like that, between now and July 1st?)

  153. Brian Cronin

    Oh, Roger Mason was signed to the veteran exception that allows you go over the cap? Aha, so that’s how they were able to exceed the cap. Cool. Gotcha.

    As for advantages, won’t they have the MLE available in the summer, then, since they’re over the cap?

  154. latke

    I do want to say re: the defense last night that it was really phenomenal in the second half, and I don’t think it was just the Spurs playing poorly. Neal missed some open shots, but besides that, we played about as well defensively as we can. The offense was just putrid.

    re: amare

    As much as I’m annoyed by Amare’s poor decision-making, he never had to make the kind of decisions he’s making here, and the fact that he’s bad at it is not unusual for a PF. Most PFs are not supposed to make decisions. The coach and the point guard are responsible for evaluating how they can best succeed and getting them the ball in that situation.

    Here’s a thought exercise: Let’s say Phoenix had resigned Amare and was playing in the east. Who here would argue that they’d be in the same place as the knicks? IMO they’d be looking at a 55+ win season (in a far deeper conference), and that has nothing to do with anyone on Phoenix’s roster other than Nash. A washed up Carter is no better than Chandler. Gallo is better than any of the wings Phoenix has shuffled in and out of their SL, and Fields is as good as Bell was 5 years ago. The difference is Nash’s decision-making. It’s not even that Nash is THAT much better than Felton. If you put Nash on the Magic, I doubt he would have such an effect. It’s the system. The key to SSOL is having that central threat — the decision-making PG and the finishing big man. Without either, it’s just a bunch of semi-contested 3s. Hell, Amare + Nash plus 7 d-leaguers I think still gets you a .500 record.

    re: acquiring steph curry

    Curry is really not a point guard. He plays one on TV, but he’s even more of 2 guard than Felton, and IMO the only serious flaw in this team right now is Felton has gotten tunnel vision on his passes and is shooting too much. Granted, Curry would make a lot more of those shots, but I don’t think he’d make us much better.

  155. latke

    latke: (in a far deeper conference).

    West is obviously the deeper conference.

    Brian Cronin: As for advantages, won’t they have the MLE available in the summer, then, since they’re over the cap? 

    We will not be over the cap come summer unless we trade expirings for players with longer contracts. You have to be over the cap before signing anyone to get the MLE.

  156. Brian Cronin

    As much as I’m annoyed by Amare’s poor decision-making, he never had to make the kind of decisions he’s making here, and the fact that he’s bad at it is not unusual for a PF. Most PFs are not supposed to make decisions. The coach and the point guard are responsible for evaluating how they can best succeed and getting them the ball in that situation.

    Agreed.

    I agree that when it comes to Amar’e’s poor decision-making, the fault, as it is, more likely lies with D’Antoni than Amar’e. You know, not letting him freelance so much.

    And yes, if the Knicks dealt Felton for Nash, they’d be a ton better, but that age difference is pretty daunting, so I can’t blame them if they don’t try to pursue that (and honestly, if you’re Phoenix, you can’t pass on a Felton for Nash deal, if presented to you, right?).

    Question – has Felton played his way off of the All-Star team?

  157. Brian Cronin

    We will not be over the cap come summer unless we trade expirings for players with longer contracts. You have to be over the cap before signing anyone to get the MLE.

    So it is your salary commitments as of July 1st midnight that determines if the MLE is available? Gotcha, thanks.

    Come on, Knicks, deal Curry for someone with a 2012 expiring contract – anyone!

  158. Ben R

    You do not have to be over the cap to have access to the mle. The mle is a cap hold that every team gets but if you’re under the cap it is usually in your best interest to renounce it. But if you are for example 3 million under the cap you can still use your mle you just can’t use your mle and your 3 million in cap space. To have access to the 3 millon in cap space you would have to renounce the mle.

    So if the mle started at say 5.5 million and you were 7 million under the cap you could either have the mle and 1.5 million in cap space or renounce the mle and have 7 million in cap space. It is never advantagous to be over the cap.

  159. Brian Cronin

    It is never advantagous to be over the cap.

    But if the Knicks are over the cap next season (with a player making as much as Curry, just expiring in 2012 – heck, perhaps even Marcus Camby, since it’s not like Curry’s playing any more than Camby would this year), then they could use the MLE and extend WC, giving them about $16 million in expiring contracts that they could deal for a good player (Curry’s replacement and Turiaf, who presumably will accept his option for next year) along with a good player like Gallo or WC or Felton next year.

  160. maurice lucas

    My prediction for NYK record:
    Jan 31st – 23-24
    Feb 28th – 28-29
    Mar 31st – 35-40
    April 13th – 39-43
    Finishing 7th place in the Conferene

  161. Brian Cronin

    They can extend WC and use the mle regardless of whether they are over the cap or not next year.

    But not keep Curry’s money available for trades.

  162. latke

    Brian Cronin: Question – has Felton played his way off of the All-Star team?  

    IMO, it’s not like he was a given before. He’s definitely made it a lot less likely. The losing may be more important than the poor shooting. As far as Felton for Nash — I wasn’t suggesting the trade, but IMO it wouldn’t be bad. I mean, if our only means of having a championship level team is to get williams or paul, then we’re letting Felton go in 2012 anyway. The problem is I think Walsh and D’Antoni would feel it wrong to package Nash in a trade for CP3 or Paul (unless it upped his odds of a championship), whereas they would feel no obligation to Felton.

    Brian Cronin: (with a player making as much as Curry, just expiring in 2012 – heck, perhaps even Marcus Camby, since it’s not like Curry’s playing any more than Camby would this year),

    Camby is only going to be out 3 weeks. I would love a trade for Camby as long as it doesn’t cost us anymore than expirings, which I doubt. We might be able to trade Curry straight up for Okur. He is not in the rotation, and it would give them a nice chunk of change in cap space this offseason. I don’t know if now is the time we want to be helping Utah though.

    Another benefit of acquiring 2012 expirings is that the new CBA may lead to a lot of teams trying to save $s. We might be able to get a lot more value around the league for 2012 expirings than for 2011s. Cap space would do the same trick, but if the cap goes down significantly, we might not have all that much cap space.

  163. DS

    I think the that current reports on ‘Melo could be wrong.

    It’s highly possible ‘Melo wants that fat extension before the CBA expires more than anything and he’s just trying to see if he can be sent to NY in addition to getting it. If he’s not dealt via sign+trade by the deadline, he may very well just re-sign with Nuggets.

    Sorry, has ESPN mentioned that possibility once???

  164. flossy

    DS: I think the that current reports on ‘Melo could be wrong.It’s highly possible ‘Melo wants that fat extension before the CBA expires more than anything and he’s just trying to see if he can be sent to NY in addition to getting it. If he’s not dealt via sign+trade by the deadline, he may very well just re-sign with Nuggets.Sorry, has ESPN mentioned that possibility once???  

    Don’t you think that ship has sailed? Nuggets fans are booing him. The team’s long/medium term prospects are a huge question mark and management has revealed itself to be pretty incompetent with the way they’ve handled their end of this (ugh) melodrama so far. I guess a few extra million per year might make playing out the rest of his prime under those circumstances worth it, but it sure wouldn’t be the same as it used to be.

  165. DS

    flossy: Don’t you think that ship has sailed? Nuggets fans are booing him. The team’s long/medium term prospects are a huge question mark and management has revealed itself to be pretty incompetent with the way they’ve handled their end of this (ugh) melodrama so far. I guess a few extra million per year might make playing out the rest of his prime under those circumstances worth it, but it sure wouldn’t be the same as it used to be.  

    I think these are all good points, flossy, but I think they could be superseded by the chance to sign a guaranteed $87 million extension before the CBA expires. Also consider that ‘Melo could try to repair his public image by saying “I never asked for a trade. The media just assumed I wanted one.” That angle may at least be worth a try.

    Anyway, my point was more that I am surprised by how seldom that possibility is mentioned in all the ‘Melo talk.

  166. Jimmy C

    ess-dog: Screw Melo.Let’s do this:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6c2sjveGo for a playoff run.  

    I’d love to get Camby. But honestly, I’d do this deal if it was Patty Mills instead of Fernandez. I’ve watched a number of Blazers games and he does a pretty good job running that offense — albeit a more deliberate offense — off the bench. And he can hit the 3 at a much higher rate than TD.

  167. Z

    Brian Cronin: Come on, Knicks, deal Curry for someone with a 2012 expiring contract – anyone!  

    The Knicks have more that the MLE available if they let Curry expire July 1st, so it’s only advantageous to trade Curry for a longer contract if you are bringing in the player that you would otherwise be using your slurry space for. In the case of Melo there is an advantage to trading for him rather than signing him in July (advantage is that the Knicks wouldn’t have to worry about cap holds for their own FAs and they would also get the MLE). They shouldn’t just trade Curry for a longer contract to get those advantages, though, because they’d miss their chance to sign a max FA.

  168. ess-dog

    Jimmy C:
    I’d love to get Camby. But honestly, I’d do this deal if it was Patty Mills instead of Fernandez. I’ve watched a number of Blazers games and he does a pretty good job running that offense — albeit a more deliberate offense — off the bench. And he can hit the 3 at a much higher rate than TD.  

    Agreed, but the Blazers would probably prefer a Curry/AR for Camby straight up.

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